[Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy
If you drive by the proposed new digs at 2117 West River Road N, you will see a two story industrial building in a sad state of repair. Next door is Broadway Pizza, 2025 West River Road N. On the other side are two buildings: Doyle Lock at 2201 and Star Press at 2225. I looked up the 2002 property tax valuations and tax bills for these 4 properties. Here they are: 2117 (Moore Business Forms - New Digs) Valuation: $2,360,000 Property Taxes: $98,823 2025 (Broadway Pizza) Valuation: $743,000 Property Taxes: $30,045 2201 (Doyle) Valuation: $605,000 Property Taxes: $24,175 2225 (Star Press) Valuation: $532,000 Property Taxes: $21,070. Brian Rice said that the appraised value of 2117 is $3.3 to $3.4 million. Hm.must have used the City Center appraiser. Having been in the real estate business for over 30 years, I can assure Mr. Rice and the Park Board that no one in their right mind would pay $3 million for that property at this point in time. Commercial property values are dropping like a rock. Mr. Rice also said that he believes the City assessor carries a value on it of $3.2 million. Wrong Mr. Rice: It's $2.3 million - and falling. As a comparison, I looked at a nice office building on the edge of the loop - 825 S 8th Street. This property has two towers, one with 5 stories and one with 12 stories. It sold last year (in the midst of the real estate frenzy) for $3.06 million. It took me about 10 minutes to do my little exercise in due diligence. If the Park Board thinks it's getting a good deal - we've got a serious competence problem. On the other hand, I've got about 4 acres of incredible land on the West Bank - with breathtaking views of Downtown Minneapolis. I'd be delighted to sell it to the Park Board - for say $10 million! Let's make a deal: That way, Moore Business Forms and I can laugh all the way to the bank together. One more note: Renting office space is smart during times of declining market values. Buying office space is smart at the bottom of a cycle - not at the top. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside (Work) North Oaks (Home) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy
I took a little time to confirm what Vicky posted. She's dead on in all of her facts. List Members; It's time to start scrutinizing every little thing the park board does. It troubles me that they could mishandle such a large amount. What about the minor and mid size expenditures? The board is about to make a very unwise purchase. 1-2 million in poor decisions could keep the parks open for kids in Jordan or any other neighborhood for longer hours. We could hire that many coaches for basketball and little league. Kids could be playing all day seven days a week. Craig Miller Former Fultonite [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you drive by the proposed new digs at 2117 West River Road N, you will see a two story industrial building in a sad state of repair. Next door is Broadway Pizza, 2025 West River Road N. On the other side are two buildings: Doyle Lock at 2201 and Star Press at 2225. I looked up the 2002 property tax valuations and tax bills for these 4 properties. Here they are: 2117 (Moore Business Forms - New Digs) Valuation: $2,360,000 Property Taxes: $98,823 2025 (Broadway Pizza) Valuation: $743,000 Property Taxes: $30,045 2201 (Doyle) Valuation: $605,000 Property Taxes: $24,175 2225 (Star Press) Valuation: $532,000 Property Taxes: $21,070. Brian Rice said that the appraised value of 2117 is $3.3 to $3.4 million. Hm.must have used the City Center appraiser. Having been in the real estate business for over 30 years, I can assure Mr. Rice and the Park Board that no one in their right mind would pay $3 million for that property at this point in time. Commercial property values are dropping like a rock. Mr. Rice also said that he believes the City assessor carries a value on it of $3.2 million. Wrong Mr. Rice: It's $2.3 million - and falling. As a comparison, I looked at a nice office building on the edge of the loop - 825 S 8th Street. This property has two towers, one with 5 stories and one with 12 stories. It sold last year (in the midst of the real estate frenzy) for $3.06 million. It took me about 10 minutes to do my little exercise in due diligence. If the Park Board thinks it's getting a good deal - we've got a serious competence problem. On the other hand, I've got about 4 acres of incredible land on the West Bank - with breathtaking views of Downtown Minneapolis. I'd be delighted to sell it to the Park Board - for say $10 million! Let's make a deal: That way, Moore Business Forms and I can laugh all the way to the bank together. One more note: Renting office space is smart during times of declining market values. Buying office space is smart at the bottom of a cycle - not at the top. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside (Work) North Oaks (Home) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy
2117 (Moore Business Forms - New Digs) Valuation: $2,360,000 Property Does assessed value actually equate to fair market value in Minneapolis? I'm not a real estate agent, but from what I've read, the assessed value of a property is often quite a bit lower than fair market value. Perhaps someone should ask the board who they had appraising the property. Property tax assessments don't mean very much, outside of tax collection. -Michael Lomker, North Loop. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy
I'll stand corrected on the assessed value. I wrote that response late at night and that's why I prefaced my comments with I beieve. As most property owners know the assessor valuation may not reflect the market. And as I commented there was another buyer ready to offer more, but on different terms. The Park Board obtained two appraisals. The lowest was for $3.2 million. The aquisition price was slightly less than $3 million. I'll repeat for hopefully the last time, the financing mechanism used for the purchase can't be used for operational expenses. The Park Board has a power unique among political subdivisions in the state--the ability to mortgage property. There are no new dollars in the 2003 budget for the Park Board's office space--hence the notion that programs will be cut is simply nice sounding rhetoric, but ill-informed rhetoric nonetheless. Rent and parking for the downtown office is $430,000 per year and going up. Prinicipal and interest payments to Wells Fargo on the mortgage at the new building are $256,000 per year. For less money the taxpayers are getting three times the space as renting. The asset is quite real and tangible and easier to liquidate than say city hall. As far as Jordan goes, it will most likely be better served with a new northside service center as will other north and eastside parks. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Craig Miller Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 10:28 AM To: Mpls Forum Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy I took a little time to confirm what Vicky posted. She's dead on in all of her facts. List Members; It's time to start scrutinizing every little thing the park board does. It troubles me that they could mishandle such a large amount. What about the minor and mid size expenditures? The board is about to make a very unwise purchase. 1-2 million in poor decisions could keep the parks open for kids in Jordan or any other neighborhood for longer hours. We could hire that many coaches for basketball and little league. Kids could be playing all day seven days a week. Craig Miller Former Fultonite [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you drive by the proposed new digs at 2117 West River Road N, you will see a two story industrial building in a sad state of repair. Next door is Broadway Pizza, 2025 West River Road N. On the other side are two buildings: Doyle Lock at 2201 and Star Press at 2225. I looked up the 2002 property tax valuations and tax bills for these 4 properties. Here they are: 2117 (Moore Business Forms - New Digs) Valuation: $2,360,000 Property Taxes: $98,823 2025 (Broadway Pizza) Valuation: $743,000 Property Taxes: $30,045 2201 (Doyle) Valuation: $605,000 Property Taxes: $24,175 2225 (Star Press) Valuation: $532,000 Property Taxes: $21,070. Brian Rice said that the appraised value of 2117 is $3.3 to $3.4 million. Hm.must have used the City Center appraiser. Having been in the real estate business for over 30 years, I can assure Mr. Rice and the Park Board that no one in their right mind would pay $3 million for that property at this point in time. Commercial property values are dropping like a rock. Mr. Rice also said that he believes the City assessor carries a value on it of $3.2 million. Wrong Mr. Rice: It's $2.3 million - and falling. As a comparison, I looked at a nice office building on the edge of the loop - 825 S 8th Street. This property has two towers, one with 5 stories and one with 12 stories. It sold last year (in the midst of the real estate frenzy) for $3.06 million. It took me about 10 minutes to do my little exercise in due diligence. If the Park Board thinks it's getting a good deal - we've got a serious competence problem. On the other hand, I've got about 4 acres of incredible land on the West Bank - with breathtaking views of Downtown Minneapolis. I'd be delighted to sell it to the Park Board - for say $10 million! Let's make a deal: That way, Moore Business Forms and I can laugh all the way to the bank together. One more note: Renting office space is smart during times of declining market values. Buying office space is smart at the bottom of a cycle - not at the top. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside (Work) North Oaks (Home) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option
[Mpls] Bob Fine Editorial - The Park Board's numbers are fishy
A few points and questions in response to Mr. Rice's last post. 1. My City assessor told me that the taxable market value in Minneapolis is required to be within 95 per cent of actual market value. His name is Patrick Todd. 2. The two appraisals you refer to should be accessible to the public. Most appraisers determine a building's value based on the income that it will generate. Alternatively, they would use comparables. Where might we find these two appraisals? 3. I called an accountant at one of the largest commercial brokers and managers in Minneapolis. I found out that operating expenses for buildings similar to the Moore building are between $5.00 and $7.50 per square foot (excluding real estate taxes.) This means that at a minimum, the Park Board would be spending $375,000 per year for operations in addition to debt service. 4. Rents are going down, not up. Vacancies abound. Did anyone try to negotiate a more favorable rent with the Park Board's current landlord? $100,000 each year could be easily be saved just by letting employees pay for their own parking - like the rest of us have to. 5. The building needs extensive upgrades. How much does the Park Board intend to spend on rehab and where will that money come from? 6. The City will lose property tax receipts of approximately $100,000 each year. If the property is really worth more than $2.3 million, we will lose MORE in tax receipts. 7. Mayor Rybak made it clear that the Park Board shares the same checkbook with the rest of our City government. No matter how you rationalize this proposed purchase, you are INCREASING DEBT, INCREASING COSTS, and REDUCING THE TAX BASE. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside (Work) North Oaks (Home) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
