[Mpls] Strib: Johnson Lee cited for failure to obey police order
According to the Strib, Minneapolis City Council Member Natalie Johnson Lee said Friday she hasn't decided whether to pay the fine or formally dispute a police citation she received for blocking traffic and disobeying a police officer in her North Side ward. http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4045205.html Sounds like a clash of 2 people with attitudes. Seems that the Minneapolis cops have enough problems with out this, Inspector Dolan only fans the flames. Most drivers would have simply driven around a person stopped to engage in conversation. In this case when the officer was already dealing with a medical situation (taking someone to the hospital) and he takes time out for this? And is it really a lawful police order to tell a Council Member to move a conversation with a constituent? Somehow I don't see the same results if it had been Zerby in South East or Ostrow in Northeast. Terrell Brown Loring Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Strib: Johnson Lee cited for failure to obey police order
The article indicates no dispute that the Minneapolis police officer insisted on a citizen taking action that had no necissity because no problem was being caused. This appears to be a case of a police officer feeling an irrational need to demonstrate that she is in control. This is not an uncommon problem for police, but it tends to become much more of an obsession when they deal with African Americans. I agree that it is much more difficult to envision an officer taking such action toward an average-appearing caucasion individual. Part of the Star Tribune article's take on this incident is also partly curious in its apparent bias toward the police. It interprets Natalie Johnson Lee's defensive statement If you feel like you need to, write me a ticket as agreement that she asked for a ticket. The article also concludes The incident is unlikely to affect Johnson Lee's seat on the council. Why would this even be a question to raise over such a frivolous incident? Jordan Kushner Golden Valley, works downtown - Original Message - From: Terrell Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Minneapolis Issues Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 4:10 AM Subject: [Mpls] Strib: Johnson Lee cited for failure to obey police order According to the Strib, Minneapolis City Council Member Natalie Johnson Lee said Friday she hasn't decided whether to pay the fine or formally dispute a police citation she received for blocking traffic and disobeying a police officer in her North Side ward. http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4045205.html Sounds like a clash of 2 people with attitudes. Seems that the Minneapolis cops have enough problems with out this, Inspector Dolan only fans the flames. Most drivers would have simply driven around a person stopped to engage in conversation. In this case when the officer was already dealing with a medical situation (taking someone to the hospital) and he takes time out for this? And is it really a lawful police order to tell a Council Member to move a conversation with a constituent? Somehow I don't see the same results if it had been Zerby in South East or Ostrow in Northeast. Terrell Brown Loring Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Strib: Johnson Lee cited for failure to obey police order
Living in North Minneapolis, I am continually faced with having to make the decision as to whether or not it is prudent to pass a vehicle that is illegally parked on a right of way, or to wait until they finish chatting with the individual they're speaking with. Almost without exception, the driver of the vehicle (usually in a somewhat annoyed manner) motions me to go around them. Sometimes I make good choices, sometimes I don't. About a month ago, during a typical incident of this type, I took the driver's advice and attempted to squeeze through. In doing so, our rear-view mirrors scraped lightly. The damage? A scuff mark the size of a dime on the mirror of the illegally parked vehicle. I ended-up having to pay $40.00 for the damage I caused, as the driver of the illegally parked vehicle was furious over the damage I had caused. My attitude has since changed. I now get-up as close as I can and incessantly honk my horn until they move their illegally parked vehicle. Unless Council Member Johnson-Lee was in a designated parking/stopping area, the officer was well within their right AND their duty to request that she move. And while questioning the officers' justification is the right of every citizen, obeying the law is as well. An illegally parked car is illegally parked, regardless of who you are. As for Rochelle Olson's biased reporting - reporters have imput into stories, but very rarely make the decisions about the overall complexion of the article. Dennis Plante Jordan _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Strib: Johnson Lee cited for failure to obey police order
quote who=Dennis Plante Living in North Minneapolis, I am continually faced with having to make the decision as to whether or not it is prudent to pass a vehicle that is illegally parked on a right of way, or to wait until they finish chatting with the individual they're speaking with. I have encountered the same in S. Mpls. What is even more irritating is there are plenty of parking spaces by the curb. But no, they just like put their car in park right in the middle of the street to carry on conversations with pedestrians or even worst, people sitting on steps of their front home or apt. Unless Council Member Johnson-Lee was in a designated parking/stopping area, the officer was well within their right AND their duty to request that she move. And while questioning the officers' justification is the right of every citizen, obeying the law is as well. An illegally parked car is illegally parked, regardless of who you are. I originally saw this story on Fox 9 when it first happened. I agree with Dennis. If the allegations are true, the officer did his job. If the officer didn't do his job properly, then Ms. Lee certainly can contest it in court. I've contested situations where I felt the officers were ticketing me because I was driving a car with minorities in there. Yes I've won those cases. But if I was parking my car in the middle of the street with moving traffic 'cause I need to finish a conversation with my buddy, I sure wouldn't whine and complain about the ticket I got. Some people are crying racism with this situation. Oh please. Racism exists. We know that. However, minorities shouldn't be allowed to commit an act that is illegal just because they are minorities and we excuse that act by crying racism when they are caught. And before some of you call me a racist, let me re-iterate that I'm a minority. I've been profiled by the police before in Minneapolis and St. Paul. The officer in this case did his job. Crying racism for everything will defeat the fight against racism. It numbs the word and makes it less effective, Instead take action, be proactive and try changing situations. Again, for those that missed the above, I acknowledge that racism exists. But I don't think the incident with Ms. Lee is motivated by racism. An officer simply did his job which we pay him to do. As for Rochelle Olson's biased reporting - reporters have imput into stories, but very rarely make the decisions about the overall complexion of the article. I've not read the article. Can't comment on this. The information I received was from Fox News. Thomas T. Thai // Whittier TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Strib: Johnson Lee cited for failure to obey police order
On second thought, I've changed my mind... I'm quite sure now that had a white person been driving Natalie's car, the squad would have gone around w/o saying a word. I'm also quite sure that the cop in question was way out of line for telling Johnson-lee that if she wanted to continue her conversation, she needed to pull into the adjoining parking lot. But wait a moment, come to think of it, I'm white, and I've received a ticket for parking a vehicle (it was there less than 5 minutes) in front of my house facing the wrong way (to unload groceries). Was I pissed? You bet. Was I in the wrong? Yup. My wife's half African American. Maybe I should scream discrimmination? A cop telling someone in a predominately minority neighborhood that they are stopped illegally (in the street) and they need to move along, and further ticketing them, when they fail to comply, is NOT selective, OR discriminatory in nature. Dennis Plante Jordan _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Strib: Johnson Lee cited for failure to obey police order
This year, the Fourth Precinct police have been going to community meetings, NNO Block Parties, and any other place where two or more are gathered and advising people that they will be stopping vehicles for ANY traffic violations, equipment violations or parking infractions in an effort to fight gang activity and street dealing of drugs. They have told us that they need to crack down in a consistent manner in order to not be see as profiling or targeting any single group of people. They also have to have probable cause in order to make these stops. The crackdown on these illegal activities have come at the repeated request of the residents and our council members. I have been at meetings where this has been discussed in the presence of our northside counsel members. The portion of Plymouth Avenue where this tag was issued, has no parking on either side of the street and has had for many years. There seems to be no argument on either side of this issue that the council person was stopped in a traffic lane. There is no mention that her vehicle had broken down and the gentleman with her was attempting to help her get it started, so I will assume she could have moved her car when the officer requested that she do so. Nothing in the traffic law says that the officer needed explain why the council;member should move her car other than what she was doing; obstructing traffic. Whether the driver thinks the order is 'silly' is not something that should be discussed on the street with the officer. I am sure that all of our counsel members know how to get a hold of Insp Dolan, the Deputy Chiefs or the Chief at any time. There is no accusation that the officer swore at Council Member Johnson-Lee or that she was even rude. She may not have been office friendly, but then she wasn't asking the driver to go to coffee with her. She was doing her job. Nor is the officer accused of beating her up or being physical towards the council member in any way. Council Member Johnson-Lee says that since the officer didn't know who she was, she treated her the same way she would any other citizen. I would, therefore, think the council member would be at least pleased with the officer's professional manner even though she may not have liked the officer's request to move or the ticket. As far as saying this was a racial incident, I don't think there is much proof of that. According to the story, this occurred at 7:40 AM on a weekday morning. I have been retired for a couple of years, but I think this time period is still considered 'rush hour'. Perhaps Council Member Johnson-Lee didn't noticed, but I have a feeling the squad car was not the only car that would have had to change lanes in order to accommodate her conversation. I also bet the drivers of those other cars didn't take race into consideration as they mumbled comments going by her. For anyone not familiar with Plymouth Ave NO, it is a major thru street, not a quite residential side street. In short, if a white driver had acted the same, he or she would have gotten a tag, too. We often expect our police officers to maintain a higher standard of conduct. Should we not ask the same from the people we elect to represent us? If you ask any driver on the north side, people stopping their cars in the street to chat is an all too common practice. It is rude and inconsiderate behavior. As far as the excuse that she was talking to a constituent, he could have jumped into her car, and continued their conversation as she drove into the parking lot. I would hope that all of our elected officials will remember that they are looked up to by all of their constituents, regardless of race, sex or age, and act accordingly. Their actions are no longer private and they are subject to close scrutiny. Anne McCandless Jordan TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
