Re: [Mpls] What is your [school] list up to today?
Hello List, I agree with Peter, and quite a few of the rest of you. We always talk about children being the future, but some of us don't want to acknowledge that our children can reason enough to make wise decisions. In junior high I attended Bryant (now Sabathani) and then was bussed to Ramsey for 9th grade. We had our own little mini race riots and walkouts over human relations issues, so don't tell me kids don't know the issues. And it is so true that they all have so much more info than we did back in the 70's. It is said that "a little child will lead them." If you need further proof of our young people's desires in action to save this world that we adultsseem bent on destroying, go to www.idealist.org and click on the part that deals with youth. Pamela (who attended Field school back in the day, and who now does not live that far from Macdill Air Force base which isa majorintelligence unit for militaryoperations, in Tampa, and who hopes Iraqdoesn't choose to drop a bomb on us because she is plumb out ofduct tape and plastic wrap.) Patrick Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has this list gone absolutely mad?--Your suggestion sounds pretty unethical, if notoutright illegal. I frankly hope that this type ofbehavior doesn't pervade HR departments. If so, maybeI should go to law school -- I could make a fortune onunlawful discrimination suits.About the protest itself--Recall that it was a bunch of kids who persuadedMcDonalds to change their packaging from styrofoam topaper-based packaging, and that Kids for Saving theEarth (a successful environmental awarness group) wasstarted by kids in the metro area (I believe). Theywere somehow able to persuade Target to carry theirmagazine in their stores for a long time (they werenear the community information kiosks), which wereextraordinarly well-produced. Perhaps yourperceptions do not fit the evidence.Patrick PetersonDinkytownDo you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
Re: [Mpls] What is your [school] list up to today?
Side note: I was one of those kids who helped get McDonald's to change from styrofoam to paper. Youth activism in Minneapolis has a long and strong tradition ranging from elementary school (at places such as Longfellow School of the Fine Arts which is now Ramsey) to the University level. It's one of the reasons why Minnesota schools have produced so many wonderful community leaders. -Brandon Lacy Campos -Powderhorn Park _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your [school] list up to today?
I don't understand why Craig is upset that he was called on his unfounded claim. People on the right do this all the time -- they make some claim not backed up with any real fact and then claim to be smothered by the left when people question them. To wit: so you're saying that the actions of students at a school where a prospective employee went YEARS ago and can't possibly be involved with make a difference in your employment decisions? Or are you saying that because a few (or a 100, or whatever) students decided to organize a walk-out that somehow everyone who attends, has attended, or will attend that school is tainted by your brush? I'm so sorry that those people won't get a fair share and presume that they'll find jobs at companies where this kind of logic isn't used. David Brauer makes a good comment about SD 60 and Field School. He's probably right in that most of these kids' families made higher than the median income in Minneapolis and will have a lot of opportunities that other kids won't have. What concerns me is that if someone showed me the statistics illustrating the percent of children in free/reduced lunch programs, the percent of children of color, and the percent of children with a stable residence I could probably pick the ZIP code (or at least the area of the city) where that school is located. Patrick Peterson Dinkytown --- Craig Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well this sure set off a hornet's nest. Anybody been reading Doonesbury lately? How all Oregon High School Graduates are being kept out of the mythical Ivy League college. This is how it starts to happen. All things being equal one kid graduates from Kerkhoven-Murdoch-Sunburg and the other kid graduates from SW High Mpls. All things being equal, then you read the headline of what MPS does DURING school time. Now picture yourself as the employer, administrator, Dean, etc. One of my critics on this thread, claimed that this is how we share and express our values. What if they aren't your neighbors or neighbors children's values? Let the school teach two plus two, Shakespeare, Langston Hughes, Stravinsky, Ravel, Newton, Einstein, Lincoln. Knowledge held in common. Not the political opinion of SD 60 of the DFL party. Craig Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rogers, MN Has this list gone absolutely mad? About remembering which job applicants are graduates of Minneapolis Public Schools and which aren't, I have 2 things: --Be sure you apply that standard to the Rhodes Scholars, IB Diploma winners (including myself), Ivy grads, and Athena winners who graduated from MPS. = __ PatrickPeterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim:a11235patrick tel:612.379.4722 __ __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your [school] list up to today?
Perhaps Minneapolis needs to add political affiliation to the local human rights ordinance to prevent employers from discriminating against our students for activity unrelated to their job performance. I know that Ann Arbor, MI did so years ago as a response to McCarthy era oppression. David Strand Loring Park --- Patrick Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To wit: so you're saying that the actions of students at a school where a prospective employee went YEARS ago and can't possibly be involved with make a difference in your employment decisions? Or are you saying that because a few (or a 100, or whatever) students decided to organize a walk-out that somehow everyone who attends, has attended, or will attend that school is tainted by your brush? I'm so sorry that those people won't get a fair share and presume that they'll find jobs at companies where this kind of logic isn't used. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] What is your [school] list up to today?
Has this list gone absolutely mad? About remembering which job applicants are graduates of Minneapolis Public Schools and which aren't, I have 2 things: --Be sure you apply that standard to the Rhodes Scholars, IB Diploma winners (including myself), Ivy grads, and Athena winners who graduated from MPS. --Your suggestion sounds pretty unethical, if not outright illegal. I frankly hope that this type of behavior doesn't pervade HR departments. If so, maybe I should go to law school -- I could make a fortune on unlawful discrimination suits. About the protest itself --Recall that it was a bunch of kids who persuaded McDonalds to change their packaging from styrofoam to paper-based packaging, and that Kids for Saving the Earth (a successful environmental awarness group) was started by kids in the metro area (I believe). They were somehow able to persuade Target to carry their magazine in their stores for a long time (they were near the community information kiosks), which were extraordinarly well-produced. Perhaps your perceptions do not fit the evidence. --I don't doubt that some students wanted to talk about the war one day in class and batted around the idea of a walkout (probably based on things that they had studied about the Civil Rights Movement or things they saw on TV). Did teachers and parents help? Maybe -- I'll even venture to say Probably. Did they force them to hold an anti-war sign or walk out? Probably not. About $17,000 for activism (Victoria's comment): --Frankly, if this activity teaches students to question media and their leaders, think for themselves about issues important to them, and take action, I think it's worth more than $17,000. --Look: public education is supposed to teach young people about their community and how to make a difference. This walkout probably generated inumerable discussions about government and how it makes decisions. Also discussed probably were what other people thought of a war, why nations go to war, Iraq, how individuals can take control of their lives, and how to participate in civic participation. In a school system where the required civics class is a sad joke, this is sorely needed. I wonder if the types of people who were upset would be so upset if there was a walkout in support of the war? Doubt it. Patrick Peterson Dinkytown From: Craig Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:57:43 -0600 Subject: [Mpls] What is your school up to? I believe that the schools that organize and allow kids to take class time off to go out and protest are using taxpayer money for political purposes and bordering on brainwashing the kids. It has been many years since I was on the frontline of management in the private sector. You know the position, hiring firing, and being the one who shows up early and stays late. Well, if I ever have to be in that thankless position again, I've got news for the Mpls School Board. All things being equal between two job applicants.I'm going to remember which school district thought it was ok to stop teaching math, reading, and writing. Tough decisions made easy by the Minneapolis School Board. To those parents who fail to prevent this nonsense. Shame on you. Your doing your children such a disservice. = __ PatrickPeterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim:a11235patrick tel:612.379.4722 __ __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your [school] list up to today?
Well this sure set off a hornet's nest. Anybody been reading Doonesbury lately? How all Oregon High School Graduates are being kept out of the mythical Ivy League college. This is how it starts to happen. All things being equal one kid graduates from Kerkhoven-Murdoch-Sunburg and the other kid graduates from SW High Mpls. All things being equal, then you read the headline of what MPS does DURING school time. Now picture yourself as the employer, administrator, Dean, etc. One of my critics on this thread, claimed that this is how we share and express our values. What if they aren't your neighbors or neighbors children's values? Let the school teach two plus two, Shakespeare, Langston Hughes, Stravinsky, Ravel, Newton, Einstein, Lincoln. Knowledge held in common. Not the political opinion of SD 60 of the DFL party. Craig Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rogers, MN Has this list gone absolutely mad? About remembering which job applicants are graduates of Minneapolis Public Schools and which aren't, I have 2 things: --Be sure you apply that standard to the Rhodes Scholars, IB Diploma winners (including myself), Ivy grads, and Athena winners who graduated from MPS. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your [school] list up to today?
What WOULD Einstein do? He was a professor - I suspect that he would applaud these children for stretching their minds. He was a survivor of Nazi germany - He would applaud these children for using the voice they still have. He was an opponent of war. You do the math. And he showed that Newton was wrong. And Lincoln? I seem to remember he had some pretty strong politcal opinions. What about Eisenhower, who warned us against the rise of the military-industrial complex? Or Theodore Roosevelt who said - To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. I was taught Thoreau. Who taught me about civil disobedience. Did my school make a mistake? What about Oppenheimer? - he was also a physicist. Or is his history a little too embarrassing? What about Schroedinger? Heisenberg? You don't even want to know what those two little subversives were hiding in their equations. Or Darwin? Knowledge held in common? That must be a very tiny amount of information. On Thursday, March 20, 2003, at 12:34 PM, Craig Miller wrote: express our values. What if they aren't your neighbors or neighbors children's values? Then we start a DIALOG. Robert Schmid Central TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your [school] list up to today?
Craig writes: on 3/20/03 12:34 PM, Craig Miller at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is how it starts to happen. All things being equal one kid graduates from Kerkhoven-Murdoch-Sunburg and the other kid graduates from SW High Mpls. All things being equal, then you read the headline of what MPS does DURING school time. Now picture yourself as the employer, administrator, Dean, etc. Depends on who's doing the hiring. If I'm in a top-down, order-driven kind of company, I'll pick the former student. If I'm in a knowledge-based, creativity biz that values independent thought, I'd pick the protest kid every time. I don't think these are just District 60 values - but there are a heck of a lot of jobs in that District (including the south half of Downtown). I would also hazard a guess that it wasn't the at-risk kids who did this - they just skip for the hell of it. Sounds to me like these were the smart kids that most employers seriously crave, especially in a knowledge-based economy. David Brauer King Field Used to have District 60 values but will soon adapt to District 61 TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] What is your [school] list up to today?
Title: Re: [Mpls] What is your [school] list up to today? Craig Miller wrote: This is how it starts to happen. All things being equal one kid graduates from Kerkhoven-Murdoch-Sunburg and the other kid graduates from SW High Mpls. All things being equal, then you read the headline of what MPS does DURING school time. Now picture yourself as the employer, administrator, Dean, etc. One of my critics on this thread, claimed that this is how we share and express our values. What if they aren't your neighbors or neighbors children's values? Let the school teach two plus two, Shakespeare, Cry 'havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war. (Julius Caesar 3.1.275) We go to gain a little patch of ground That hath in it no profit but the name. (Hamlet 4.4.18-19) http://shakespeare.about.com/library/weekly/aa012503a.htm Langston Hughes, Hughes' revolutionary voice was so strong, so biting in presenting the harsh conditions of everyday working folk, especially those Black and others of color, that in 1953 he was called before the so-called Un-American Committee led by Senator Joseph McCarthy. Hughes, as well as W.E.B. Du Bois, Paul Robeson and so many others, was accused of being a communist and communist sympathizer. His passport was taken away, and his ability to earn a living greatly affected. http://www.seeingblack.com/x022102/langston100.shtml Stravinsky, Stravinsky remained in the West when World War I broke out, and the Russian revolution of October 1917 turned him, like other members of the Diaghilev circle, into a permanent exile. http://www.iclassics.com/iclassics/timeline_article.jsp?articleId=148 Ravel, World War I pushed France's musical life to the sidelines. Ravel himself volunteered for the army, but was rejected-he was too short and underweight. In 1916, he finally made it into the army as a truck driver, and even saw the front lines, but his ill health got him discharged a year later-they thought he had tuberculosis. http://www.wgms.com/index.php?nid=155sid=518 Newton, He modestly attributed his discoveries largely to the admirable work done by his predecessors; and once explained that, if he had seen further than other men, it was only because he had stood on the shoulders of giants. http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/HistMath/People/Newton/RouseBall/RB_Newton.html Einstein, A country cannot simultaneously prepare and prevent war. The pioneers of a warless world are the youth that refuse military service. He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable an ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder. http://www.humboldt1.com/~gralsto/einstein/quotes.html Lincoln. that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain--that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom--and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/al16.html Knowledge held in common. Not the political opinion of SD 60 of the DFL party. Mr. Miller, examine the quotes and descriptions attributed above to your scholarly heroes. The words can easily be used to discredit your view that any child in the Minneapolis School District who opposes the war is being led astray. It would seem that your cultural icons REQUIRE a critical eye on warfare and state power and unbridled authority. It seems that according to criteria you have selected, our children are learning well -- probably because they are being taught well. I am immensely proud of the them. I'd hire one of them in a minute. By the way, my ancestors homesteaded in the Kerkhoven-Murdock-Sunburg area and I grew up in the Belgrade-Brooten-Elrosa area. A rural education is no guarantee of lock-step homogeneity. I am a living example of that. Keith Nybakke Nokomis East Minneapolis
