Re: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
David Brauer wrote: Again, all I seek is a reasonable limit on private towing fees; reasonable includes building in the cost of city rules. But c'mon - Cathy Leighton's $300 fee is shocking! As Jan said, I hope councilmembers are listening. At the very least, I would STRONGLY advocate that any parking lot with a towing contract be required to post the fee amount in the lot. Mark Anderson responds: David is correct -- there needs to be some regulation of these fees. Otherwise, what's to stop a towing company from charging $1000 to get your car out of hock? In my opinion, this NOT like usury laws; in that case the government is butting in between two willing parties and saying NO! With the towing situation, there is only one willing party. I understand that if I park illegally in a private lot, that the business has a claim against me. But why does that give them a right to steal my car? (Even if they contract out this theft to a towing company) And when the tow company locks up my car in their lot, why can't I ask a cop to make 'em give it back, because it's MY car?! Okay, these are rhetorical questions; I realize the businesses need some way to punish offenders without taking them to court. But I think the power has gone too far to the business side. I am very interested in the law that allows the towing and any restrictions on the towing company. I found Bill Cullen's statutory quote interesting, but it didn't say anything about what price the tow-ers could charge to get your car out of hock. I don't have a lot of faith in our fair City to set a reasonable price, but I have even less faith in price setting by a private enterprise that has no incentive to keep the price down. This is not the free market we're talking about here; this issue is about a legal dispute between two parties, with one party apparently having the right to fine the other whatever it sees fit. Mark V Anderson Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
My son got a ticket near his school for parking "within 5 feet of an alley." He wasn't blocking the alley but was within 3 feet of it. He just got his license so I looked up parking regulations in his Minnesota drivers manual and there was nothing there regarding 5 feet. When we went down to the government center to protest it, they would only reduce it. Turns out this is a special Minneapolis ordinance. The clerk told my son maybe he shouldn't drive to school. She didn't know that Minneapolis schools had cut way back bussing. When I asked how was a person to know the different ordinances in Minneapolis to avoid future tickets, she didn't know. I did mention that I thought it was a revenue raiser. Should we all call the government center and ask to be mailed copies of the Minneapolis parking regulations? Anne Johnson Cooper
Re: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
Public works replaced a curb cut on Spruce Place and the way they put down the concrete, they cut 4-6 ft from what was there before. The ordinance is that you can't park 5 ft. from the radius of the curb cut. The city action effectively killed a parking space in a critical parking neighborhood. The meter monitors' enforcement is not at all consistent. Sometimes, if you park like your son did they don't give tickets. Other times they ticket you. I contend that the city departments that impact parking do the work without concern for the residents. The curb cut could have been done to allow for another parking spot but now residents can't predict if they will get a ticket or not. If you want to be literal-minded, like the court referees, then you deserve the ticket even though there is more than enough space to both have access to a driveway and to park. Also in Loring Park, the city removed about 5 parking spots on Willow and 14th. Streets to create a bus stop for a bus that rarely stops there and rarely runs throughout the day and never comes at night. The city just did it without informing the public. There is a major parking problem in this neighborhood but the priorities of the residents is not being considered. David Wilson Loring Park On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My son got a ticket near his school for parking within 5 feet of an alley. He wasn't blocking the alley but was within 3 feet of it. He just got his license so I looked up parking regulations in his Minnesota drivers manual and there was nothing there regarding 5 feet. When we went down to the government center to protest it, they would only reduce it. Turns out this is a special Minneapolis ordinance. The clerk told my son maybe he shouldn't drive to school. She didn't know that Minneapolis schools had cut way back bussing. When I asked how was a person to know the different ordinances in Minneapolis to avoid future tickets, she didn't know. I did mention that I thought it was a revenue raiser. Should we all call the government center and ask to be mailed copies of the Minneapolis parking regulations? Anne Johnson Cooper REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
Bill Cullen writes: So, if you want to open a competing tow truck operation, you must: find a large lot zoned correctly IN MPLS, own or operate it, and provide 24 hour, on-duty storage. Any idea how much that would cost? Any idea where there is a lot big enough to justify 24 hour a day employees? Only the big providers can justify such costs. So David, the answer to your question is simple: The city is making sure your acquaintance doesn't have to travel to some suburb (gasp!) to get their car back. And, you can pick it up at 3:19 AM! Your acquaintance just got the bill for such convenience. Bill, thank you for the research and the thoughtful post. From a public policy standpoint, I'm glad the city has both regulations. Given how important a car is in this society and our inadequate public transportation system, I think these rules make sense. You shouldn't have to travel far to get your car (though perhaps a more sensible standard would be X miles from the lot you were towed from), and you should be able to get it whenever you can. I have no doubt this raises costs, and should be factored into any usury limits. That said, Bill's big provider point should also keep the labor costs low: it provides economies of scale. It costs bigger lots less per to be staffed 24 hours. Again, all I seek is a reasonable limit on private towing fees; reasonable includes building in the cost of city rules. But c'mon - Cathy Leighton's $300 fee is shocking! As Jan said, I hope councilmembers are listening. At the very least, I would STRONGLY advocate that any parking lot with a towing contract be required to post the fee amount in the lot. David Brauer Kingfield Only towed once, about 15 years ago, off 10th Street for parking after 4, and I totally deserved it. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
When I visited Montreal sometime the 1970's I parked my car in the wrong place during a snow storm. When I went to look for it the next day, it wasn't where I parked it. I got really anxious and started looking up and down the street. Some good soul stopped me, told me to calm down and to go look around the corner. There was the car. The city had towed it out of the snow emergency zone and left a ticket on the windshield. What a civilized way to deal with a problem. There is no chance that Minneapolis would ever consider such a solution. There is too much money to be made and enough special interests to pay back. There is a Guindon cartoon that was published in the Star Tribune that shows an modest south Mpls Scandinavian-looking couple standing in front of an elaborate fireplace. The caption is The car towing business has been very good to us! David Wilson Loring Park On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After reading a number of these posts about outrageous towing fees I am wondering if there are any Council Members monitoring this list. Sure sounds like a subject that needs some attention at that level. I know we have to keep traffic moving, but this snatching of cars out of private lots and holding them ransom sure does give the City a bad name. Why can't we be a friendly City for a change? Jan Del Calzo Lynnhurst REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Usury Laws - Tow Charges
I'm sorry everyone, Andy's absolutely right. One anecdote about one towing company acting in a manner that could be deemed predatory certainly proves that all towing companies working in the city are evil, underhanded thugs waging war on students and the working poor and that the city of Minneapolis is in bed with the lot of them. Sure. Mark Snyder Windom Park Never been towed because I know how to read (learned how in a Minneapolis Public School, to boot!) On 11/20/03 11:21 PM, Andy Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I rest my case, Mr. Snyder. Ms. Leighton, it's all over Minneapolis, but the meat hooks are out for students at the U in spades. Tell you son he's not alone, for all the comfort that brings. Andy Driscoll Saint Paul From: Cathy Leighton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:42:19 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Usury Laws - Tow Charges Just thought I'd add a very recent example. My oldest son (22 years old), didn't want to park illegally on the street, over by the U, so he pulled up behind a closed business to run across the street and drop something off. He was away from his car for approximately ten minutes and it was around 8:30 in the evening. He didn't notice any signs forbidding parking but then he wasn't looking either. He discovered what he missed when he came back to find that a private towing company had put a boot on his car. The no parking sign was approximately 9 by 3 inches and hidden in the shadows. Apparently there was a surveillance camera that was being monitored and they sent someone over as soon as he left his car. The tow truck appeared to collect the fee as soon as he came back. The cost was $93 to have the boot removed. He was told by the tow company that if he didn't pay, they would tow his car and the charge would then be $300. (I have the receipt in front of me.) My son paid the fee and learned a valuable lesson but these fees are truly outrageous. I am curious, is this just going on over by the U or is it all over Minneapolis? Catherine Leighton Live in Longfellow/Work North East REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Usury Laws - Tow Charges
Ok, I still don't understand what is wrong with this... From: Cathy Leighton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:42:19 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Usury Laws - Tow Charges Just thought I'd add a very recent example. My oldest son (22 years old), didn't want to park illegally on the street, over by the U, so he pulled up behind a closed business to run across the street and drop something off. He was away from his car for approximately ten minutes and it was around 8:30 in the evening. He didn't notice any signs forbidding parking but then he wasn't looking either. He discovered what he missed when he came back to find that a private towing company had put a boot on his car. The no parking sign was approximately 9 by 3 inches and hidden in the shadows. I understand about not parking illegally, however I'm guessing because he was dropping off something, he was in a rush, which would cause a person not to notice a lot of things compared to if he was not in a rush. However since he decided to park behind a closed business, which would indicate private property, it would be expected to have an incident like this to happen. Apparently there was a surveillance camera that was being monitored and they sent someone over as soon as he left his car. Usually that is part of what a surveillance camera is for, other purposes are to prevent thefts and vandalism. Such prevention saves a company from having to spend that money and then pass it off to the customers. The tow truck appeared to collect the fee as soon as he came back. The cost was $93 to have the boot removed. He was told by the tow company that if he didn't pay, they would tow his car and the charge would then be $300. (I have the receipt in front of me.) This makes sense, would you park in the same place that you had to pay either $93.00 or $300.00 again? It's like getting a speeding ticket, would you or others speed or continue to speed if you knew that you had to pay a fine for everytime you get caught? My son paid the fee and learned a valuable lesson but these fees are truly outrageous. I am curious, is this just going on over by the U or is it all over Minneapolis? Catherine Leighton Live in Longfellow/Work North East This would depend on the tow company or the business that charges these fees, depending on the contract that they have setup, this would reflect in the type of fines you would have to pay. I'm not saying good for you or defending anyone, but I know that when I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I pay the fee and don't complain, because I know what I did was wrong. Russell Sasaoka Coon Rapids (Formerly of Loring Park) REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
Clarification: When I wrote, advocating city-imposed usury limits on private-lot towing charges: I know the city makes mucho dinero from this, but - having not been towed for awhile, I don't know how much this limit would cut into their haul. Still, a reasonable limit is the right thing to do. ...I didn't mean that the city makes money when private lot owners tow. It doesn't. My point was, if the city caps private fees, it may have to cut its own, too. That would be a disincentive (depending upon the usury limit and the city's current fee), but still the right thing to do. David Brauer Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
Vicky writes: If your friend who was towed knew anything about city finance, he/she would be much angrier about subsidizing the rent for Saks 5th Avenue, Neiman Marcus, Target, etc. Those charges amount to a lot more than $200, year after year, but he/she doesn't know he/she is getting ripped off -- because those charges are unidentifiable, buried deep in his/her property tax bill. Actually, Vicky, I seriously doubt my friend pays $200 toward city debt. The city share of property taxes on my above-average-value Minneapolis home is now about $800 total. As we've seen in previous discussions, most Minneapolis property taxes go for police, fire and public works. In a way, you're making my point: for all the fulminating about taxes, exorbitant charges such as $200 for a tow probably hit people's pocketbooks harder. (Reminder: I'm not saying don't tow. I'm not saying don't fine. I'm just saying there should be a reasonable limit on how much someone can charge to get your car out of their private car jail. $200 is too big a bite.) Other thoughts on the merits of the tow-fee-limit idea? David Brauer Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
David Brauer brings up the issue of car towing in the city of Minneapolis. I think that this can be looked at as an issue of livability. The city used to tow cars itself, but sometime in the 1980's started contracting out this function to private towing companies. Whenever you make someone's income dependant on volume and speed, you introduce factors that alter the situation. Even though I have been towed more times than I like (living downtown makes it almost inevitable), I have no problem with towing cars. However, the tow companies' motivations are to tow away as many cars as possible within the shortest time. When the city had the concession, the tow drivers were more willing to work with city residents. After all, the city wants the particular street cleared. If you can rescue your car then you should be able to do it without paying a forced tax or charge. Not anymore. About 2 years ago during a snow emergency period, I asked a driver of a private towing company where the parking restrictions were. He didn't know and he was pissed because I was slowing him down with my question. This arrangement is easier for the city, but hell on the residents. We have had this discussion before about the city's towing practices in neighborhoods like Loring Park, Stevens Sq, Southeast. In terms of parking, these neighborhoods fit Jim Graham's definition of an impacted neighborhood. The solution of city staff's problems, no need to communicate with the public, and collecting money the easiest way possible takes precendence over resident livability. If you don't have an off-street parking spot in these impacted neighborhoods, you have to spent significant amounts of time dodging the tow trucks during the snow season. Should the city go back to towing cars? Should there be some type of honest discussion of the rules that the towing companies operate under? Should there be an honest discussion of the rates that are charged and how much the split is between the city and the private companies? Yes to all these questions. I also think that we should only discuss towing charges and policies on city streets. David Wilson Loring Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
I disagree with the city capping tow charges, at least not without a lot more information on the subject. Much like landlords, towing companies are easily stereotyped as the scourge of the city, yet they provide a valuable service. It's easy to say that $200 to get your car back is excessive, but what do we know about the costs associated with running a towing company? I would imagine that employees must be paid fairly well since they have to stand up to all the abuse and threats that get heaped upon tow truck operators by owners of illegally parked vehicles. I doubt many people would do that for long if the job paid peanuts. I would also imagine insurance rates and security costs must be pretty high for a business like this as well. I remember reading last year about a guy who busted into a local towing company's lot to get his car back rather than pay the towing fee. While it may sound like a good idea, people who pull a stunt like that can be charged with burglary, even though it's their own car. A couple years ago, the MN Daily profiled Gopher Towing. I found it to be somewhat enlightening: http://www.daily.umn.edu/articles/2001/09/27/3965 Personally, I think that towing charges could be higher, especially in areas where the illegally-parked car poses a safety hazard or in areas where there is already limited parking. Mark Snyder Windom Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
Lets keep budget and spending and taxing decisions in the hands of the City Council where they belong. The Charter is intended as a form of governance document, not a refuge from making tough political choices. Unfortunately, amending the charter has been used in the past to circumvent the City Council; no reason though, why we have to continue down that road. The Minneapolis Charter Commission has made a concerted effort to clean up and clean out the charter. Issues List and Charter Commission member Brian Melendez deserves much credit for his leadership in this effort. Lets not a big step backward! Jim Bernstein Fulton Charter Commission member -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victoria Heller Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:08 AM To: Minneapolis Forum Subject: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges David Brauer writes: I'm thinking the city needs to establish price caps on towing, much like price caps on interest rates. Vicky adds: Let's cap everything we don't like, starting with interest payments, then salaries. If your friend who was towed knew anything about city finance, he/she would be much angrier about subsidizing the rent for Saks 5th Avenue, Neiman Marcus, Target, etc. Those charges amount to a lot more than $200, year after year, but he/she doesn't know he/she is getting ripped off -- because those charges are unidentifiable, buried deep in his/her property tax bill. The fastest and easiest way to cap the city's wild spending is through a charter amendment. I'm game! Vicky Heller North Oaks REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
I'm not sure about capping private towing companies. I do, however, know how I feel about towing done by the city: it's a regressive tax. Those of limited means tend not to have off-street parking, and are therefore towed at a higher rate. Like all regressive taxes (property, sales, non-progressive fees, etc.) we should do away with this one. This means covering the cost of the actual tow, rather than supplementing city income with inflated recovery fees. Robin Garwood SE Como REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
This has gotten somewhat far away from the original posting, but it is time to interject a few facts from the 2002 Mpls budget. http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/city-budget/2002adopted/Section3.pdf 2002 Fire and Police expenditures: $139.0 million 2002 Total expenditures: $1,244.8 million 2002 Property Tax revenue: $151.3 million 2002 Total revenue: $1,002.8 million Property tax revenue only accounts for about 15% of Minneapolis' total revenue so you could pick almost any combination of departments and say that they account for most of the property taxes collected. I'll leave it up to the reader to determine how this fits into the debate because I am losing interest... Tom Searles Waconia, Twp -- where parking is plentiful and the police are respected. [Brauer] As we've seen in previous discussions, most Minneapolis property taxes go for police, fire and public works. [Heller] What numbers are you looking at? According to the 2003 Truth in Taxation Budget - less than half of the City expenditures are for police, fire and public works. Your statement reflects my point: There is vast confusion about city finance. Why is that? It should be difficult for people to find out where their money is going. Vicky Heller North Oaks REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
I think David Brauer raises a very valid issue here. I just called a few towing companies and here's what I found. If Cedar Towing tows your car from a private lot for lack of payment the fee they gave me over the phone is $225.00 I called three other companies and said my car had broken down and needed to be towed to my house 10 miles away. How much? I asked. Extreme Towing - $65.00 plus $3.00/mile (they'd be there in 45 minutes) D D Towing - $45.00 plus $2.00/mile (and they'd come right away) Dukes Towing - $65.00 flat fee (and they'd come right away) Cedar Towing sure has a fancy fleet of trucks! Shiny custom wheels, sparkle paint and pinstripes. If I go looking for a tow in a competitive market it can be done for about $65.00. Besides pinstripes, what are the added expenses with the car towed for lack of payment to justify a difference of $160.00? Dan Prozinski Cedar Riverside REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
The City gets a major rake-off. Parking permits and towing deals are among the most corrupt arrangements any city makes with what are essentially the scum of private enterprise - lot owners and towing companies. Parking in Minneapolis goes beyond the pale, however. The city long ago decided that parking would be the major revenue stream beyond property taxes - and they've succeeded. Invariably, the burden falls on the poorest once again and the usurious meter rates, lot rates, tag fines and towing fees register in the millions while draining the pockets of students and working poor with impunity and disregard...not to mention many cases of theft by confiscation when they cannot afford to redeem their vehicles. The outrageous differences between Minneapolis and almost any other city I've lived in or been puts this city at the top for its cruelty to parkers everywhere. Talk about disincentives to live or visit what should be a slam dunk beautiful town. Andy Driscoll Saint Paul From: Dan Prozinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think David Brauer raises a very valid issue here. I just called a few towing companies and here's what I found. If Cedar Towing tows your car from a private lot for lack of payment the fee they gave me over the phone is $225.00 I called three other companies and said my car had broken down and needed to be towed to my house 10 miles away. How much? I asked. Extreme Towing - $65.00 plus $3.00/mile (they'd be there in 45 minutes) D D Towing - $45.00 plus $2.00/mile (and they'd come right away) Dukes Towing - $65.00 flat fee (and they'd come right away) Cedar Towing sure has a fancy fleet of trucks! Shiny custom wheels, sparkle paint and pinstripes. If I go looking for a tow in a competitive market it can be done for about $65.00. Besides pinstripes, what are the added expenses with the car towed for lack of payment to justify a difference of $160.00? Dan Prozinski Cedar Riverside REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
The difference is that Cedar Towing is going to have to store the vehicle until the owner discovers it's missing and shows up to bail it out. So Cedar Towing has additional expenses for insurance, security, probably property taxes, etc. that none of the other towing companies have because they're just providing delivery service. The comparison is not valid. Call the competing companies back and ask if they perform the same towing service for private lots that Cedar Towing does and if so, what are their fees for owners to retrieve their cars? Or call Cedar Towing and ask the same my car broke down question and ask their rates. Either of those would be a valid comparison. Mark Snyder Windom Park On 11/20/03 7:09 PM, Dan Prozinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think David Brauer raises a very valid issue here. I just called a few towing companies and here's what I found. If Cedar Towing tows your car from a private lot for lack of payment the fee they gave me over the phone is $225.00 I called three other companies and said my car had broken down and needed to be towed to my house 10 miles away. How much? I asked. Extreme Towing - $65.00 plus $3.00/mile (they'd be there in 45 minutes) D D Towing - $45.00 plus $2.00/mile (and they'd come right away) Dukes Towing - $65.00 flat fee (and they'd come right away) Cedar Towing sure has a fancy fleet of trucks! Shiny custom wheels, sparkle paint and pinstripes. If I go looking for a tow in a competitive market it can be done for about $65.00. Besides pinstripes, what are the added expenses with the car towed for lack of payment to justify a difference of $160.00? Dan Prozinski Cedar Riverside REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Usury Laws - Tow Charges
I rest my case, Mr. Snyder. Ms. Leighton, it's all over Minneapolis, but the meat hooks are out for students at the U in spades. Tell you son he's not alone, for all the comfort that brings. Andy Driscoll Saint Paul From: Cathy Leighton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:42:19 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Usury Laws - Tow Charges Just thought I'd add a very recent example. My oldest son (22 years old), didn't want to park illegally on the street, over by the U, so he pulled up behind a closed business to run across the street and drop something off. He was away from his car for approximately ten minutes and it was around 8:30 in the evening. He didn't notice any signs forbidding parking but then he wasn't looking either. He discovered what he missed when he came back to find that a private towing company had put a boot on his car. The no parking sign was approximately 9 by 3 inches and hidden in the shadows. Apparently there was a surveillance camera that was being monitored and they sent someone over as soon as he left his car. The tow truck appeared to collect the fee as soon as he came back. The cost was $93 to have the boot removed. He was told by the tow company that if he didn't pay, they would tow his car and the charge would then be $300. (I have the receipt in front of me.) My son paid the fee and learned a valuable lesson but these fees are truly outrageous. I am curious, is this just going on over by the U or is it all over Minneapolis? Catherine Leighton Live in Longfellow/Work North East REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Usury laws - tow charges
Mark Snyder wrote The difference is that Cedar Towing is going to have to store the vehicle until the owner discovers it's missing and shows up to bail it out. So Cedar Towing has additional expenses for insurance, security, probably property taxes, etc. that none of the other towing companies have because they're just providing delivery service. I would buy that if the rate were $15 to $25 per day per storage on top of the tow fee. But an extra $160 for a few hours storage, since many people pick their cars up ASAP, is outrageous. Steven M Nelson Willard Hay REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
