Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
On 25/02/2012 09:40, Andy Farnell wrote: .. On the subject of creating worlds, I've missed this conversation entirely because of a courageous attempt to degooglify my life great word! I wonder though if it should be more like degooglise, as you are changing or reducing state, rather than actively making something, which is what the 'ify' suffix would suggest. Such questions are of great importance, as once enshrined in the OED words are frozen for all time. And the harsh truth is that no competing search engine will succeeed unless its name works well as a verb. I heard only the other day on a news bulletin the reference to James Dyson as someone who had invented a new hoover. Richard Dobson -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
Of course, I know I'm being didactic, creative design is great and I'm 100% in favor of doing things wrong. I just thought doing a wacky sinewave animation would have been more interesting than doing a wacky non-sinewave animation. Maybe I've just seen too many non-sines drawn by students who aren't being creative, they just don't get the difference (yet!) between two half-circles and a sinewave. douglas On 2/25/12 4:40 AM, Andy Farnell wrote: When the lovely people at MIT added some extra cool graphics to my book cover I was initially dismayed to see the usual funky oscilloscope trace with a blue tint, looking like an electric spark. But everyone I showed it to, my friends and family all thought it was amazing and futuristic! So I quickly got over my pedantry and embraced a new found ability to create signals that go backwards in time as well as forwards. Graphic designers create their worlds, we create ours. -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
On 2/25/12 8:43 AM, Theo Verelst wrote: douglas repetto wrote Sat Feb 25 08:21:23 EST 2012: non-sinewave animation. Maybe I've just seen too many non-sines drawn by students who aren't being creative, they just don't get the difference (yet!) between two half-circles and a sinewave. Serious engineering students (who else wouldbe the future leaders of the technology of software ?) shouldn't find it hard to do some simple analysis like a Taylor expansion, or rather simplistic trigonometric considerations. My students tend to be musicians and artists who often think they're bad at math or hate math. So when I start talking about unit circles and sinewaves or Ohm's Law and basic algebra, they're often a bit worried... But usually they get really excited when they realize that a lot of this stuff is pretty simple even if you don't have much/any math/engineering background. To me that's the most exciting thing, getting non-experts to realize that their non-expertise is not a barrier to them doing creative things with something like DSP or electronics. So maybe it's dumb/ironic that I'm complaining about Google doing something wacky with an animation, since my students and I certainly do wacky/unconventional things with code and electronics! Anywho, I went back and looked at the animation some more and I agree that it's pretty charming and that there's really no reason why it should be a sinewave. Sorry for wasting bandwidth! douglas -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
I rather enjoy math and programming. That's why I read Csound opcodes in source form. On 2/25/12, Theo Verelst theo...@tiscali.nl wrote: douglas repetto douglas wrote Sat Feb 25 12:07:19 EST 2012: Sorry for wasting bandwidth! I'll be darned if I'd have to call a serious discussion a waste of a couple of milliseconds router-time, so by no means do I prefer to be accused of saying that ! I should like to think more than a few conservatory students (both male and female) have sufficient interest in these subjects, so maybe you're right it's a good calling to alleviate some of the need for mathematics. And concerning Andy's point about boringness, I recall that when drum computer were invented they too were called boring, and producing music with them as spawning headaches... Theo V. -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
I agree as well. Why should it have to be a sine wave? Hertz didn't invent the sine wave! A square wave has 'frequency' just as much as a sine does, and presumably 'frequency' was the point of the googledoodle. Put the odd harmonics in and get a circular waveform, it's fine by me. The amplitude and frequency modulation is a bit weird though! T. On 24 Feb 2012, at 07:56, Nigel Redmon wrote: Eh, I still say they weren't going for a sine wave at all. Look at their other doodles. I'm sure that their designers would have felt that a sine wave would have missed the point for them. http://www.zazzle.com/robert_schumanns_200th_birthday_tshirt-235517387819488097 -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
I assumed they were trying to suggest something about Hertz's work on electromagnetism. After all, that's what he's actually known for! On 2/24/12 4:06 PM, Tom Wiltshire wrote: I agree as well. Why should it have to be a sine wave? Hertz didn't invent the sine wave! A square wave has 'frequency' just as much as a sine does, and presumably 'frequency' was the point of the googledoodle. Put the odd harmonics in and get a circular waveform, it's fine by me. The amplitude and frequency modulation is a bit weird though! T. On 24 Feb 2012, at 07:56, Nigel Redmon wrote: Eh, I still say they weren't going for a sine wave at all. Look at their other doodles. I'm sure that their designers would have felt that a sine wave would have missed the point for them. http://www.zazzle.com/robert_schumanns_200th_birthday_tshirt-235517387819488097 -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
On 23/02/2012 6:22 PM, Oskari Tammelin wrote: Come on, it's a perfect visualization of their understanding of audio. +1 -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
If they'd used raster graphics I'm sure it would've looked more real. On 2/23/12, Didier Dambrin di...@skynet.be wrote: There's also the fact that it's not easy to draw a sinewave in existing tools out there. Those who have drawn GUIs here and had to show waveforms know what I mean, I remember I've ended up with google-like non-sines as I was trying to draw a sine using 2 half ellipses. It may be what happened to the guy who drew that. Ask yourself how you'd do it.. the most accurate would be to use a real plot of a sine, but now good luck converting that to vectors in a proper image editing tool, for a nice antialiased display. -Message d'origine- From: Theo Verelst Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 2:18 PM To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu Subject: Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine What's the challenge being met by Google with their wavy lines? It clearly isn't a graphics problem, nor a particularly good synthesis engine being promoted (the page with the application is fun and maybe sound fun, but isn't put forward as the next big thing in audio). Neither is the graph (in the sense of wiggly line, not ropes and dots) particularly pleasing in some form of to me known theory being applied with graphically or audio-wise special aesthetics, like a critically damped spring system or a perfect way to reflect compressed waves or some something like such ideas. Probably it is cartoon like doodle making fun of the buzz-word elliptical which has been abused probably since pick-up elements and certain Helmholz integrals have been proclaimed holy as such. No that there is all too much fun in that, or in exchanging sinc functions with fourier integrals, squared energy terms with 1/(1+x) fractions, repeated FFTs with correct impulses and linear systems with systems time varying systems, necessarily. I suppose (being rather versed in computer graphics and interpolation) the fun is some kind of curve suggestion, pointing at the many errors being often made, and how stupid the results are without making people ashamed! Theo -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp - Aucun virus trouve dans ce message. Analyse effectuee par AVG - www.avg.fr Version: 2012.0.1913 / Base de donnees virale: 2114/4827 - Date: 23/02/2012 -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
NURBS should do the trick. On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Didier Dambrin di...@skynet.be wrote: There's also the fact that it's not easy to draw a sinewave in existing tools out there. Those who have drawn GUIs here and had to show waveforms know what I mean, I remember I've ended up with google-like non-sines as I was trying to draw a sine using 2 half ellipses. It may be what happened to the guy who drew that. Ask yourself how you'd do it.. the most accurate would be to use a real plot of a sine, but now good luck converting that to vectors in a proper image editing tool, for a nice antialiased display. -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
What is NURBS? On 2/23/12, Emanuel Landeholm emanuel.landeh...@gmail.com wrote: NURBS should do the trick. On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Didier Dambrin di...@skynet.be wrote: There's also the fact that it's not easy to draw a sinewave in existing tools out there. Those who have drawn GUIs here and had to show waveforms know what I mean, I remember I've ended up with google-like non-sines as I was trying to draw a sine using 2 half ellipses. It may be what happened to the guy who drew that. Ask yourself how you'd do it.. the most accurate would be to use a real plot of a sine, but now good luck converting that to vectors in a proper image editing tool, for a nice antialiased display. -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
Hello Theo, On 2/23/12 5:18 AM, Theo Verelst wrote: What's the challenge being met by Google with their wavy lines? They were celebrating Heinrich Hertz' 155th birthday. It clearly isn't a graphics problem, nor a particularly good synthesis engine being promoted I'm sorry you don't like JSyn. Is there anything in particular that I can improve? Have you tried developing a program using JSyn? My goal in developing JSyn was to provide a synthesis API for Java programmers that could run in a web browser. There are other synthesis engines, eg. SuperCollider and Chuck, that are more powerful than JSyn. But they have their own language and are not easily used from Java. Also please note that there is no connection between Google and JSyn. I was just responding to their doodle. (the page with the application is fun and maybe sound fun, but isn't put forward as the next big thing in audio). I'm puzzled. Does it have to be the next big thing? I obviously just did it for fun because we were having fun talking about the Google doodle. Some folks enjoyed it. That's enough for me. Phil Burk www.softsynth.com -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
Phil, I don't think Theo was referring to JSyn, but to the algorithm as the synth engine that may not be the next big thing. On 2/23/12, Phil Burk philb...@mobileer.com wrote: Hello Theo, On 2/23/12 5:18 AM, Theo Verelst wrote: What's the challenge being met by Google with their wavy lines? They were celebrating Heinrich Hertz' 155th birthday. It clearly isn't a graphics problem, nor a particularly good synthesis engine being promoted I'm sorry you don't like JSyn. Is there anything in particular that I can improve? Have you tried developing a program using JSyn? My goal in developing JSyn was to provide a synthesis API for Java programmers that could run in a web browser. There are other synthesis engines, eg. SuperCollider and Chuck, that are more powerful than JSyn. But they have their own language and are not easily used from Java. Also please note that there is no connection between Google and JSyn. I was just responding to their doodle. (the page with the application is fun and maybe sound fun, but isn't put forward as the next big thing in audio). I'm puzzled. Does it have to be the next big thing? I obviously just did it for fun because we were having fun talking about the Google doodle. Some folks enjoyed it. That's enough for me. Phil Burk www.softsynth.com -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
But it's Google!!! Surely they have the resources to generate a sinewave animation that features an actual sinewave if they want to. I know it's a silly thing to rant about. But the Google front page has a lot of reach (how many millions of hits a day?), and it gives me deep nerd pain to think about something so fundamental and so beautiful -- yes, there's a deep connection between a circle and a sinewave! -- being botched. I'll stop ranting now! douglas On 2/23/12 9:53 AM, Didier Dambrin wrote: There's also the fact that it's not easy to draw a sinewave in existing tools out there. Those who have drawn GUIs here and had to show waveforms know what I mean, I remember I've ended up with google-like non-sines as I was trying to draw a sine using 2 half ellipses. It may be what happened to the guy who drew that. Ask yourself how you'd do it.. the most accurate would be to use a real plot of a sine, but now good luck converting that to vectors in a proper image editing tool, for a nice antialiased display. -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
they actually have a team behind doodles http://www.google.com/doodles/about http://www.google.com/doodle4google/press.html even a shop http://www.zazzle.fr/googledoodles it's a pretty big thing, if you consider that it's probably the most seen art on earth, if you think of it -Message d'origine- From: QuikQuak Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:15 AM To: A discussion list for music-related DSP Subject: Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine They are too busy in money making decision madness to focus on what the new guy does for the daily graphics job for minimum wage, something that goes like do a thing that's animated and looks different and cool and get it on my computer by lunch time! So they do that and go for a burger, and all is done for the day. : ) On 23 Feb 2012, at 23:27, douglas repetto doug...@music.columbia.edu wrote: But it's Google!!! Surely they have the resources to generate a sinewave animation that features an actual sinewave if they want to. I know it's a silly thing to rant about. But the Google front page has a lot of reach (how many millions of hits a day?), and it gives me deep nerd pain to think about something so fundamental and so beautiful -- yes, there's a deep connection between a circle and a sinewave! -- being botched. I'll stop ranting now! douglas On 2/23/12 9:53 AM, Didier Dambrin wrote: There's also the fact that it's not easy to draw a sinewave in existing tools out there. Those who have drawn GUIs here and had to show waveforms know what I mean, I remember I've ended up with google-like non-sines as I was trying to draw a sine using 2 half ellipses. It may be what happened to the guy who drew that. Ask yourself how you'd do it.. the most accurate would be to use a real plot of a sine, but now good luck converting that to vectors in a proper image editing tool, for a nice antialiased display. -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp - Aucun virus trouve dans ce message. Analyse effectuee par AVG - www.avg.fr Version: 2012.0.1913 / Base de donnees virale: 2114/4827 - Date: 23/02/2012 -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
And only noticed by four people out of 1 billion unique users a month? Why would they care? A flash, and the day is over. On 24 Feb 2012, at 02:36, Didier Dambrin di...@skynet.be wrote: they actually have a team behind doodles http://www.google.com/doodles/about http://www.google.com/doodle4google/press.html even a shop http://www.zazzle.fr/googledoodles it's a pretty big thing, if you consider that it's probably the most seen art on earth, if you think of it -Message d'origine- From: QuikQuak Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:15 AM To: A discussion list for music-related DSP Subject: Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine They are too busy in money making decision madness to focus on what the new guy does for the daily graphics job for minimum wage, something that goes like do a thing that's animated and looks different and cool and get it on my computer by lunch time! So they do that and go for a burger, and all is done for the day. : ) On 23 Feb 2012, at 23:27, douglas repetto doug...@music.columbia.edu wrote: But it's Google!!! Surely they have the resources to generate a sinewave animation that features an actual sinewave if they want to. I know it's a silly thing to rant about. But the Google front page has a lot of reach (how many millions of hits a day?), and it gives me deep nerd pain to think about something so fundamental and so beautiful -- yes, there's a deep connection between a circle and a sinewave! -- being botched. I'll stop ranting now! douglas On 2/23/12 9:53 AM, Didier Dambrin wrote: There's also the fact that it's not easy to draw a sinewave in existing tools out there. Those who have drawn GUIs here and had to show waveforms know what I mean, I remember I've ended up with google-like non-sines as I was trying to draw a sine using 2 half ellipses. It may be what happened to the guy who drew that. Ask yourself how you'd do it.. the most accurate would be to use a real plot of a sine, but now good luck converting that to vectors in a proper image editing tool, for a nice antialiased display. -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp - Aucun virus trouve dans ce message. Analyse effectuee par AVG - www.avg.fr Version: 2012.0.1913 / Base de donnees virale: 2114/4827 - Date: 23/02/2012 -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
Eh, I still say they weren't going for a sine wave at all. Look at their other doodles. I'm sure that their designers would have felt that a sine wave would have missed the point for them. http://www.zazzle.com/robert_schumanns_200th_birthday_tshirt-235517387819488097 On Feb 23, 2012, at 3:27 PM, douglas repetto wrote: But it's Google!!! Surely they have the resources to generate a sinewave animation that features an actual sinewave if they want to. I know it's a silly thing to rant about. But the Google front page has a lot of reach (how many millions of hits a day?), and it gives me deep nerd pain to think about something so fundamental and so beautiful -- yes, there's a deep connection between a circle and a sinewave! -- being botched. I'll stop ranting now! douglas On 2/23/12 9:53 AM, Didier Dambrin wrote: There's also the fact that it's not easy to draw a sinewave in existing tools out there. Those who have drawn GUIs here and had to show waveforms know what I mean, I remember I've ended up with google-like non-sines as I was trying to draw a sine using 2 half ellipses. It may be what happened to the guy who drew that. Ask yourself how you'd do it.. the most accurate would be to use a real plot of a sine, but now good luck converting that to vectors in a proper image editing tool, for a nice antialiased display. -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
On 2/22/12 9:20 AM, douglas repetto wrote: This is driving me nutz: http://www.google.com And now an image search for Hertz features lots and lots of pictures of a non-sinewave! Arrg! i was wondering if it was the same Hertz. i guess it is. sometimes Google's authority is dubious. -- r b-j r...@audioimagination.com Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
Apparently, the wave is made from shapes that are roughly those of the letters (and their colors) in the Google logo...annoying to us, but there is some logic behind it... On Feb 22, 2012, at 6:20 AM, douglas repetto wrote: This is driving me nutz: http://www.google.com And now an image search for Hertz features lots and lots of pictures of a non-sinewave! Arrg! -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
I was making a bit of a joke -- no time domain signal can have two different values at the same point in time. So since the Google doodle isn't a proper time domain signal, there's no correct way to synthesize it... douglas On 2/22/12 5:06 PM, Adam Puckett wrote: Why not use something like an inverse plotting program (that would stream the samples from the actual Doodle?). On 2/22/12, douglas repettodoug...@music.columbia.edu wrote: That's close, Phil. But to really get it you need to find a way to output two sample values in the same sample period -- they've got the ellipses joined at the zero crossings! On 2/22/12 2:25 PM, Phil Burk wrote: I couldn't help myself. The Google waveform appears to be made of random elliptical segments. Here is a JSyn Applet that plays the wave doodle: http://www.softsynth.com/jsyn/examples/googlewave.php Phil Burk -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
Maybe it's a chord? On 2/22/12, douglas repetto doug...@music.columbia.edu wrote: I was making a bit of a joke -- no time domain signal can have two different values at the same point in time. So since the Google doodle isn't a proper time domain signal, there's no correct way to synthesize it... douglas On 2/22/12 5:06 PM, Adam Puckett wrote: Why not use something like an inverse plotting program (that would stream the samples from the actual Doodle?). On 2/22/12, douglas repettodoug...@music.columbia.edu wrote: That's close, Phil. But to really get it you need to find a way to output two sample values in the same sample period -- they've got the ellipses joined at the zero crossings! On 2/22/12 2:25 PM, Phil Burk wrote: I couldn't help myself. The Google waveform appears to be made of random elliptical segments. Here is a JSyn Applet that plays the wave doodle: http://www.softsynth.com/jsyn/examples/googlewave.php Phil Burk -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
Phil, Is jSyn dependent on any other Java libraries? On 2/22/12, Phil Burk philb...@mobileer.com wrote: On 2/22/12 2:25 PM, douglas repetto wrote: I was making a bit of a joke -- no time domain signal can have two different values at the same point in time. So since the Google doodle isn't a proper time domain signal, there's no correct way to synthesize it... Haha. It sure looks impossible from the doodle. But the ellipses only have infinite slope at the zero crossing. So all I have to do is output a single 0.0. If I am on either side of the zero crossing then the slope is non-zero and it acts like a proper function. Whether the Google doodle is actually ellipses is open to interpretation. Phil -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
On 2/22/12 5:29 PM, Adam Puckett wrote: Is jSyn dependent on any other Java libraries? No. JSyn works with just the standard JDK. There are no dependencies except that JSyn uses JavaSound for audio output. JavaSound is available on Windows, Mac and Linux but not on Android. There is a single JSyn jar file, jsyn-beta-16.4.6.jar, that can be downloaded from here: http://www.softsynth.com/jsyn/developers/download.php Just add that JAR file to your Java CLASSPATH. You can then build JSyn apps using a text editor and the JDK command line tools, or Eclipse. A programmers guide is here: http://www.softsynth.com/jsyn/docs/usersguide.php A list of the most important unit generators are here: http://www.softsynth.com/jsyn/docs/unitlist.php I have found that Java code runs slightly slower than native 'C'. It's about 80% as fast. But I can program much faster in Java than 'C' and my time is more important than the computer's time. Enjoy, Phil Burk -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
To continue this very important and not at all didactic discussion: I see some of the sections as semi-circles on either side of the middle line. So there's no actual circle data on the dividing line, but rather there's a point from the top circle and a point from the bottom circle on either side of the line, and those points are on the same line on the y axis. I don't think that even w.x.'s anti-aliasing trick will take care of that... This reminds me of various waveform drawing gizmos I've seen over the years -- it's always a bit disconcerting to realize that moving to a new x,y location has to erase whatever value was previous at that point. You're not allowed to draw a circle! So it's kinda like drawing, but drawing with no history or state. Maybe the Google designer was making some sort of signal processing pun... douglas On 2/22/12 7:08 PM, Phil Burk wrote: On 2/22/12 2:25 PM, douglas repetto wrote: I was making a bit of a joke -- no time domain signal can have two different values at the same point in time. So since the Google doodle isn't a proper time domain signal, there's no correct way to synthesize it... Haha. It sure looks impossible from the doodle. But the ellipses only have infinite slope at the zero crossing. So all I have to do is output a single 0.0. If I am on either side of the zero crossing then the slope is non-zero and it acts like a proper function. Whether the Google doodle is actually ellipses is open to interpretation. Phil -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
Maybe he was deliberately going for silence, possibly further protesting SOPA/PIPA? On 2/22/12, douglas repetto doug...@music.columbia.edu wrote: To continue this very important and not at all didactic discussion: I see some of the sections as semi-circles on either side of the middle line. So there's no actual circle data on the dividing line, but rather there's a point from the top circle and a point from the bottom circle on either side of the line, and those points are on the same line on the y axis. I don't think that even w.x.'s anti-aliasing trick will take care of that... This reminds me of various waveform drawing gizmos I've seen over the years -- it's always a bit disconcerting to realize that moving to a new x,y location has to erase whatever value was previous at that point. You're not allowed to draw a circle! So it's kinda like drawing, but drawing with no history or state. Maybe the Google designer was making some sort of signal processing pun... douglas On 2/22/12 7:08 PM, Phil Burk wrote: On 2/22/12 2:25 PM, douglas repetto wrote: I was making a bit of a joke -- no time domain signal can have two different values at the same point in time. So since the Google doodle isn't a proper time domain signal, there's no correct way to synthesize it... Haha. It sure looks impossible from the doodle. But the ellipses only have infinite slope at the zero crossing. So all I have to do is output a single 0.0. If I am on either side of the zero crossing then the slope is non-zero and it acts like a proper function. Whether the Google doodle is actually ellipses is open to interpretation. Phil -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- ... http://artbots.org .douglas.irving http://dorkbot.org .. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp ...repetto. http://music.columbia.edu/organism ... http://music.columbia.edu/~douglas -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
Re: [music-dsp] google's non-sine
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:20:09 +0200, douglas repetto doug...@music.columbia.edu wrote: This is driving me nutz: http://www.google.com And now an image search for Hertz features lots and lots of pictures of a non-sinewave! Arrg! Come on, it's a perfect visualization of their understanding of audio. -- dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website: subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
