Re: AP IX locations
Paul, et al. As I have responded privately to to others offlist, while MAE-LA has withered, the other half of the exchange in LA (LAAP - www.laap.net) run by the University of Southern California is still active. The Telehouse LA facility is interconnected to the LAAP exchange and there are other things in the offing that I am not at liberty to disclose today, but will be rolled out in the very near future (press releases being prepared as I write). So yes, there are viable options in the Los Angeles area for AP carriers to exchange traffic with other entities here and vice versa. Celeste Anderson LAAP Operations Manager (among other things) USC/ISI [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Forwarded Message Date:29 Sep 2002 06:08:40 - From:Paul Vixie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: AP IX locations I would confirm GM's assertion. Also, if you have the luxury of caring more about a smaller set of large-capacity Tier1 private peers, there is some presence of AsiaPac providers doing this at Equinix SJ. Actually Equinix-Los Angeles has more Asian based Networks coming in for turn-up in October than any other region from details gathered this week. Chunghwa is in as of this week. SingTel, Japan Telecom, Hanaro, are on track for peer-ready in October. DACOM is considering, etc. so what does that make telehouse-la after all these years... chopped liver? there have been Plenty of asian isp's in los angeles for Quite a while now. there also seems to be a PAIX switch inside 1 Wilshire now. (mfn's chap.11 filing having sawn off any hope we had of opening PAIX-LA.) - -- Paul Vixie --- End of Forwarded Message
Re: AP IX locations
I have heard that the new paix switch will be attached [to laap] as well. But only rumored not sure if its true. it's true. there was a launch party recently when the paix switch was announced for 1 wilshire, and laap was absolutely mentioned along with the words just like seattle with regard to ix interconnect. paix is late with interconnect to nyiix and ames due to fiber delays, but there ought to be no such delays for a 1 wilshire switch.
List of members at LAAP ?? Re: AP IX locations
Going to the LAAP website yields no list of members. Does someone have a current list. AS20144 would be willing to peer with reasonable folks at the LAAP but lacking a list (and yes its been asked for in the past with no reply) we don't know who is there. John Brown Member of the Peering coordinators team for AS20144 On Mon, Sep 30, 2002 at 01:00:33PM -0700, Celeste Anderson wrote: Paul, et al. As I have responded privately to to others offlist, while MAE-LA has withered, the other half of the exchange in LA (LAAP - www.laap.net) run by the University of Southern California is still active. The Telehouse LA facility is interconnected to the LAAP exchange and there are other things in the offing that I am not at liberty to disclose today, but will be rolled out in the very near future (press releases being prepared as I write). So yes, there are viable options in the Los Angeles area for AP carriers to exchange traffic with other entities here and vice versa. Celeste Anderson LAAP Operations Manager (among other things) USC/ISI [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Forwarded Message Date:29 Sep 2002 06:08:40 - From:Paul Vixie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: AP IX locations I would confirm GM's assertion. Also, if you have the luxury of caring more about a smaller set of large-capacity Tier1 private peers, there is some presence of AsiaPac providers doing this at Equinix SJ. Actually Equinix-Los Angeles has more Asian based Networks coming in for turn-up in October than any other region from details gathered this week. Chunghwa is in as of this week. SingTel, Japan Telecom, Hanaro, are on track for peer-ready in October. DACOM is considering, etc. so what does that make telehouse-la after all these years... chopped liver? there have been Plenty of asian isp's in los angeles for Quite a while now. there also seems to be a PAIX switch inside 1 Wilshire now. (mfn's chap.11 filing having sawn off any hope we had of opening PAIX-LA.) - -- Paul Vixie --- End of Forwarded Message
RE: AP IX locations
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:43 AM To: keichii Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Neil J. McRae Subject: Re: AP IX locations On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 01:30:42PM -0500, keichii wrote: From: Neil J. McRae [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm looking to improve my connectivity into the AP region, in a cost effective [i.e. for as little as possible :-)]. I have ruled out buying transit as it doesn't help the issue that I'm trying to resolve, so I was wondering if there was a location/IXP in the AP region that would enable me to interconnect with as many AP carriers as possible. Above.net and ATT are your best bets for operations based in the Americas. Above has a .jp IX/colo that is almost the best connected place in AP. ATT and Above.net provide almost 80 to 90% of the bandwidth from the Americas to AP. A handful of incumbent telcos of AP region countries as well as few others operate multigigabit IP networks across the Pacific. I don't think they'd agree with your statement. -dorian
Re: AP IX locations
On Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 01:27:38PM -0700, Barry Raveendran Greene wrote: 1:1 figure for people age 18 - 60. Add these indicators to the fact that most of the Internet market dominating companies are the old PTTs. All these PTT (control freaks) are now Telcos (out to maximize share holder profit). All of them took a lot of hard knocks in the early years, learned from their mistakes, and now know where their markets are now going. So instead of dealing with clueless Asian PTTs in 1995 you are dealing with really clueful IP savvy Telcos in 2002. IP savvy Telcos who are members of the trans-oceanic cable businesses and are the ones buying up the excess capacity built by the failed independent trans-oceanic cable businesses. And speaking of control.. don't expect those PTTs to give up control (i.e. peering) in their home markets easily. -dorian
Re: AP IX locations
I'm not sure how much is supposed to be discussed about the paix la project but I know we're going to turn up peering there, meeting with our Paix sales person tomorrow. Still, Paix pao seems to have a lot of asian carriers. Most of which were very very open to peering there. On 29 Sep 2002, Paul Vixie wrote: I would confirm GM's assertion. Also, if you have the luxury of caring more about a smaller set of large-capacity Tier1 private peers, there is some presence of AsiaPac providers doing this at Equinix SJ. Actually Equinix-Los Angeles has more Asian based Networks coming in for turn-up in October than any other region from details gathered this week. Chunghwa is in as of this week. SingTel, Japan Telecom, Hanaro, are on track for peer-ready in October. DACOM is considering, etc. so what does that make telehouse-la after all these years... chopped liver? there have been Plenty of asian isp's in los angeles for Quite a while now. there also seems to be a PAIX switch inside 1 Wilshire now. (mfn's chap.11 filing having sawn off any hope we had of opening PAIX-LA.)
Re: AP IX locations
I would confirm GM's assertion. Also, if you have the luxury of caring more about a smaller set of large-capacity Tier1 private peers, there is some presence of AsiaPac providers doing this at Equinix SJ. Actually Equinix-Los Angeles has more Asian based Networks coming in for turn-up in October than any other region from details gathered this week. Chunghwa is in as of this week. SingTel, Japan Telecom, Hanaro, are on track for peer-ready in October. DACOM is considering, etc. so what does that make telehouse-la after all these years... chopped liver? there have been Plenty of asian isp's in los angeles for Quite a while now. there also seems to be a PAIX switch inside 1 Wilshire now. (mfn's chap.11 filing having sawn off any hope we had of opening PAIX-LA.) -- Paul Vixie
Re: AP IX locations
|I'm looking to improve my connectivity into the AP region, in |a cost effective [i.e. for as little as possible :-)]. I have |ruled out buying transit as it doesn't help the issue that I'm |trying to resolve, so I was wondering if there was a location/IXP |in the AP region that would enable me to interconnect with |as many AP carriers as possible. sadly the best spot to interconnect is not in the AP region, its in Palo Alto. And, it's cheaper to buy 45Mbps at a well negotiated rate from a major carrier in AU than to achieve the same amount of bandwidth with links around the country and peering in the key cities. In AP the best place to pick up carriers would be the IXs in HK or SG. HK is quite cheap to reach from both US and AU and the major telcos who won't peer in AU will peer in HK. I don't know what size player you have to be to get them to peer with you at the IX there though. If you want peering in AU, buy WorldCom (OzEmail). Continue the history (WCOM bought OzEmail when they couldn't get peering in AU, since OzEmail are one of the peering cartel; OzEmail bought Access1 for about the same reason). The big three in AU generally don't peer unless forced to by the ACCC (government competition commission). Surprised you haven't snapped them up yet James, I know they could do with a better regional POP network than the old OzEmaze POPs :-) David.
Re: AP IX locations
|I'm looking to improve my connectivity into the AP region, in |a cost effective [i.e. for as little as possible :-)]. I have |ruled out buying transit as it doesn't help the issue that I'm |trying to resolve, so I was wondering if there was a location/IXP |in the AP region that would enable me to interconnect with |as many AP carriers as possible. sadly the best spot to interconnect is not in the AP region, its in Palo Alto. Is this really still true? Some big carriers that owns lots of transpacific capacity you will see them colocated in places like Palo Alto (PAIX) or Equinix LA. Therefore to increase their transit/peering capacity they will have to order just a cross connect. IMHO, it is a good and scalable approach and easy to manage. If you have a good customer base in Asia you should go and do regional peering in the local IXs (i.e KIX, HKIX, JPIX etc). If you want to be competitive in that market and keep your customers happy, IMHO you should go for this, otherwise as you stated, packets for intra Asia traffic will flow to the West Coast and then come back to Asia. In Japan there are 4 IXes I'm aware of (JPIX and NSPIXP-2 being the largest). In Hong Kong, HKIX is (last I heard) pretty popular. In Korea, I'm told there are quite a few Ixes. There is some intra-Asia meshing going on (including both carriers as well as efforts like ABONE). Is it still the case that to get from (say) Korea to Japan, the best path is through the US? Rgds, -drc
Re: AP IX locations
On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 08:36:02AM -0700, David Conrad wrote: sadly the best spot to interconnect is not in the AP region, its in Palo Alto. Is this really still true? I would not be surprised to find that it is. Asia Pacific is an enormous region with lots of inconvenient ocean all over it. An in-region strategy which works for peering with Japan or Hong Kong or Korea is unlikely to put you close to a large number of New Zealand operators, to give an extreme example. Given the enormous scope of the question, the US west coast almost sounds like an effective common denominator *regardless* of the state of interconnection within the region, or the history of US-centric traffic demand and under-sea cable routes. In Japan there are 4 IXes I'm aware of (JPIX and NSPIXP-2 being the largest). In Hong Kong, HKIX is (last I heard) pretty popular. In Korea, I'm told there are quite a few Ixes. There is some intra-Asia meshing going on (including both carriers as well as efforts like ABONE). I think a question about the best place to peer within Asia is more likely to have interesting answers than the question about Asia Pacific. Joe
Re: AP IX locations
From: Neil J. McRae [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm looking to improve my connectivity into the AP region, in a cost effective [i.e. for as little as possible :-)]. I have ruled out buying transit as it doesn't help the issue that I'm trying to resolve, so I was wondering if there was a location/IXP in the AP region that would enable me to interconnect with as many AP carriers as possible. Above.net and ATT are your best bets for operations based in the Americas. Above has a .jp IX/colo that is almost the best connected place in AP. ATT and Above.net provide almost 80 to 90% of the bandwidth from the Americas to AP. If you want other choices: 1. Singapore Telecom or Pacfici.net.sg 2. Hinet.net of Taiwan, somewhat notorious for bad tech support. (but then is there a good telco? :) ) 3. Telstra of .AU Do NOT, I repeat, do not go to a .cn or .hk provider. I cannot emphasize how strongly I recommend against that. .CN, well, bans things and generally the engineering level is not that great. .HK has some political issues, IMHO. If your customers are based in .CN, however, you would have to. China's Great (Fire)Wall (don't laugh, it's the government project name) blocks anything they deem harmful to national security. As a result, anybody connecting in and out of .cn is slow, but their internal infrastructure is very good. So you serve .cn customers by establishing a colo mirror or something with China Telecom. Depending on where your customers are located the most, Taiwan, Japan, and Singapore are the best choices. Other people on the list have mentioned that connecting to MAE-West and PAIX would be good enough. However, I must point out the latency in serving AP-local customers can be variable, and the trans-pacific fibres have been cut 4 or 5 times in the last year. (Each cut requires a day or so to repair.) Michael
Re: AP IX locations
On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 02:43:19PM -0400, Dorian Kim scribbled: | On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 01:30:42PM -0500, keichii wrote: | Above.net and ATT are your best bets for operations based in the Americas. | Above has a .jp IX/colo that is almost the best connected place in AP. | ATT and Above.net provide almost 80 to 90% of the bandwidth from | the Americas to AP. | | A handful of incumbent telcos of AP region countries as well as few others | operate multigigabit IP networks across the Pacific. I don't think they'd | agree with your statement. They co-own the fibre lines to the US and other places, and the upstream for the AP telcos is inevitably a U.S. large scale provider. Cheers, Michael
Re: AP IX locations
On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 11:45:53AM -0400, German Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: |I'm looking to improve my connectivity into the AP region, in |a cost effective [i.e. for as little as possible :-)]. I have |ruled out buying transit as it doesn't help the issue that I'm |trying to resolve, so I was wondering if there was a location/IXP |in the AP region that would enable me to interconnect with |as many AP carriers as possible. sadly the best spot to interconnect is not in the AP region, its in Palo Alto. Is this really still true? Some big carriers that owns lots of transpacific capacity you will see them colocated in places like Palo Alto (PAIX) or Equinix LA. Therefore to increase their transit/peering capacity they will have to order just a cross connect. IMHO, it is a good and scalable approach and easy to manage. I would confirm GM's assertion. Also, if you have the luxury of caring more about a smaller set of large-capacity Tier1 private peers, there is some presence of AsiaPac providers doing this at Equinix SJ. If you have a good customer base in Asia you should go and do regional peering in the local IXs (i.e KIX, HKIX, JPIX etc). If you want to be competitive in that market and keep your customers happy, IMHO you should go for this, otherwise as you stated, packets for intra Asia traffic will flow to the West Coast and then come back to Asia. In Japan there are 4 IXes I'm aware of (JPIX and NSPIXP-2 being the largest). In Hong Kong, HKIX is (last I heard) pretty popular. In Korea, I'm told there are quite a few Ixes. There is some intra-Asia meshing going on (including both carriers as well as efforts like ABONE). Is it still the case that to get from (say) Korea to Japan, the best path is through the US? HKIX seems pretty healthy: http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/hkix/stat/aggt/hkix-aggregate.html http://www.hkix.net/hkix/connected.html According to folks that have visited them, NSPIXP2 is more a legacy low-cost, ad-hoc, non-commercial style exchange, versus the tighter controlled commercial focus of JPIX and JPNAP. Anyone know of stats for Korean IXes or other major AsiaPac IXes? In english? Anyone have experience to share on which AsiaPac IXes are currently providing best success for minimizing costs of peering and backhaul? Cheers, -Lane Rgds, -drc
Re: AP IX locations
At 01:37 PM 9/26/2002 -0700, Lane Patterson wrote: I would confirm GM's assertion. Also, if you have the luxury of caring more about a smaller set of large-capacity Tier1 private peers, there is some presence of AsiaPac providers doing this at Equinix SJ. Actually Equinix-Los Angeles has more Asian based Networks coming in for turn-up in October than any other region from details gathered this week. Chunghwa is in as of this week. SingTel, Japan Telecom, Hanaro, are on track for peer-ready in October. DACOM is considering, etc. It appears that JPNAP is growing very fast: http://www.jpnap.net/english/index.html click on services, then traffic. Rising from zero to 8G in a year is pretty steep. -ren, always pulling Los Angeles G
Re: AP IX locations
On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 04:52:33PM -0400, ren wrote: At 01:37 PM 9/26/2002 -0700, Lane Patterson wrote: I would confirm GM's assertion. Also, if you have the luxury of caring more about a smaller set of large-capacity Tier1 private peers, there is some presence of AsiaPac providers doing this at Equinix SJ. Actually Equinix-Los Angeles has more Asian based Networks coming in for turn-up in October than any other region from details gathered this week. Chunghwa is in as of this week. SingTel, Japan Telecom, Hanaro, are on track for peer-ready in October. DACOM is considering, etc. NYIIX in NYC also has a large number of AP networks, probably more than anywhere else I've seen on the east coast. -- Richard A Steenbergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)
Re: AP IX locations
A handful of incumbent telcos of AP region countries as well as few others operate multigigabit IP networks across the Pacific. I don't think they'd agree with your statement. Dorian is absolutely right here. There are even some incumbent telcos (not only from AP) with capacity between Singapore and Europe that improves RTT between Asia and Europe. -dorian
