Re: [nysbirds-l] Barn Swallow question

[Bob Grover]

Also try Becoming Wild. Same author

Get Outlook for iOS

From: bounce-125693328-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
 on behalf of Bruce Horwith 

Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 6:17:29 AM
To: Deborah Shapiro 
Cc: Joseph Wallace ; nysbirds-l 
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Barn Swallow question

And Carl Safina's Beyond Words: What Animals Think and Feel explores this 
dimension for the wider animal kingdom.

Bruce Horwith
16 Salt Marsh Path
East Hampton, NY 11937
(631) 599-0040 cell phone


On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 10:01 PM Deborah Shapiro 
mailto:dsni...@gmail.com>> wrote:
We underestimate the mental capacity of birds. While I don’t recall that she 
discusses playful behavior, Jennifer Ackerman’s book The Genius of Birds gives 
many examples of bird cognition that are fascinated and unexpected.

Great discussion.

Deborah

On Jun 7, 2021, at 9:46 PM, Joseph Wallace 
mailto:joew...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Thanks, everyone for the ongoing conversation. This is all so fascinating. 
Corvids and parrots have been known as game-players (and tricksters) for a long 
time, and it doesn't surprise me that gulls, already adept at a creative kind 
of tool-using (stationery rocks to drop clams on), might also turn objects into 
toys. But swallows did surprise me...and made me wonder what other 
species/families might engage in play.  Warblers? Gnatcatchers? It's hard for 
me to visualize, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

Thanks again for making such thoughts possible--Joe
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Barn Swallow question

[Bob Grover]

Also try Becoming Wild. Same author

Get Outlook for iOS

From: bounce-125693328-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
 on behalf of Bruce Horwith 

Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 6:17:29 AM
To: Deborah Shapiro 
Cc: Joseph Wallace ; nysbirds-l 
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Barn Swallow question

And Carl Safina's Beyond Words: What Animals Think and Feel explores this 
dimension for the wider animal kingdom.

Bruce Horwith
16 Salt Marsh Path
East Hampton, NY 11937
(631) 599-0040 cell phone


On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 10:01 PM Deborah Shapiro 
mailto:dsni...@gmail.com>> wrote:
We underestimate the mental capacity of birds. While I don’t recall that she 
discusses playful behavior, Jennifer Ackerman’s book The Genius of Birds gives 
many examples of bird cognition that are fascinated and unexpected.

Great discussion.

Deborah

On Jun 7, 2021, at 9:46 PM, Joseph Wallace 
mailto:joew...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Thanks, everyone for the ongoing conversation. This is all so fascinating. 
Corvids and parrots have been known as game-players (and tricksters) for a long 
time, and it doesn't surprise me that gulls, already adept at a creative kind 
of tool-using (stationery rocks to drop clams on), might also turn objects into 
toys. But swallows did surprise me...and made me wonder what other 
species/families might engage in play.  Warblers? Gnatcatchers? It's hard for 
me to visualize, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

Thanks again for making such thoughts possible--Joe
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Jones beach west end closed

[Bob Grover]

Looks to me like they are building a new sanitary system. No evidence of any 
support base, which I believe is highly unlikely.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 18, 2020, at 2:30 PM, Robert Paxton 
mailto:r...@columbia.edu>> wrote:

Dear Pat Aitken,
  When we were at the Coast Guard Station at Jones West End last Sunday 
March 15, we were surprised to see extensive new grading that cut across the 
gravel road out to the fishing docks. It looked like some sort of construction 
might be about to begin there.
   Does this mean that the proposed support base for offshore wind turbines is 
beginning to be built there, and that visitors are being kept out for that 
reason?
   How could the Nature Center be a "drive through" site for anything - no one 
is driving "through" there to anywhere.
   Are there any fuller sources of information about this?
With no public hearings about anything, what a great time to start major 
construction in a State Park.
   Yrs.,
  Bob Paxton and Sarah Plimpton

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 1:22 PM Pat Aitken 
mailto:aitkenpatri...@gmail.com>> wrote:
For anyone contemplating a trip to Jones Beach:. The parking lot of the nature 
center is being used as a covid drive through test area.  You will not be 
permitted to go past the booth where you pay your fee.  This means that access 
to the west end and coast guard station area is shut down.

Good spot to avoid, as this could be a covid-19 transmission hotspot.

Can't say for certain how long this will go on, but I heard it may be through 
the summer.

Stay healthy!
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Jones beach west end closed

[Bob Grover]

Looks to me like they are building a new sanitary system. No evidence of any 
support base, which I believe is highly unlikely.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 18, 2020, at 2:30 PM, Robert Paxton 
mailto:r...@columbia.edu>> wrote:

Dear Pat Aitken,
  When we were at the Coast Guard Station at Jones West End last Sunday 
March 15, we were surprised to see extensive new grading that cut across the 
gravel road out to the fishing docks. It looked like some sort of construction 
might be about to begin there.
   Does this mean that the proposed support base for offshore wind turbines is 
beginning to be built there, and that visitors are being kept out for that 
reason?
   How could the Nature Center be a "drive through" site for anything - no one 
is driving "through" there to anywhere.
   Are there any fuller sources of information about this?
With no public hearings about anything, what a great time to start major 
construction in a State Park.
   Yrs.,
  Bob Paxton and Sarah Plimpton

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 1:22 PM Pat Aitken 
mailto:aitkenpatri...@gmail.com>> wrote:
For anyone contemplating a trip to Jones Beach:. The parking lot of the nature 
center is being used as a covid drive through test area.  You will not be 
permitted to go past the booth where you pay your fee.  This means that access 
to the west end and coast guard station area is shut down.

Good spot to avoid, as this could be a covid-19 transmission hotspot.

Can't say for certain how long this will go on, but I heard it may be through 
the summer.

Stay healthy!
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[nysbirds-l] (Over)Certainty in eBird reports (Brooklyn Painted Bunting info)

[Bob Grover]

As I have been known to do, I am about to dig myself a hole here. This is an 
interesting discussion.  My only caution is that we must all recognize ebird, 
as well as the CBC's, and similar efforts, for what they are: lightly vetted 
databases that are useful to academic researchers mainly due to their sheer 
volume, which tend to mask many of the errors that inevitably creep into the 
data.  This is the definition of Citizen Science.  Ebird isn't Science, or 
Nature, or any of the many highly peer-reviewed journals (and even they retract 
research papers on occasion), and will never be.  let's all beware of the 
dangers of driving citizen scientists away from this great endeavor.

Bob Grover
West Islip






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and retention of subconsultants, including procurement of materials and leases 
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and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity 
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[nysbirds-l] (Over)Certainty in eBird reports (Brooklyn Painted Bunting info)

[Bob Grover]

As I have been known to do, I am about to dig myself a hole here. This is an 
interesting discussion.  My only caution is that we must all recognize ebird, 
as well as the CBC's, and similar efforts, for what they are: lightly vetted 
databases that are useful to academic researchers mainly due to their sheer 
volume, which tend to mask many of the errors that inevitably creep into the 
data.  This is the definition of Citizen Science.  Ebird isn't Science, or 
Nature, or any of the many highly peer-reviewed journals (and even they retract 
research papers on occasion), and will never be.  let's all beware of the 
dangers of driving citizen scientists away from this great endeavor.

Bob Grover
West Islip






Per Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and other Nondiscrimination 
statutes, Greenman-Pedersen, Inc. and its related companies will not 
discriminate on the grounds of race, color or national origin in the selection 
and retention of subconsultants, including procurement of materials and leases 
of equipment. Greenman-Pedersen, Inc. and its related companies will ensure 
that minorities will be afforded full opportunity to submit proposals and will 
not be discriminated against in consideration for an award. This communication 
and any attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity 
named as the addressee. It may contain information which is privileged and/or 
confidential under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or 
such recipient's employee or agent, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited 
and to notify the sender immediately.

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Re: [nysbirds-l] 2019 Captree CBC - Preliminary Results

[Bob Grover]

I will get my effort sheet to you this afternoon or tomorrow

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 17, 2019, at 9:25 AM, Taylor Sturm 
mailto:tjst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The 57th Captree Christmas Bird Count, in southwestern Suffolk County, was 
conducted on Sunday, December 15th, 2019.  While the sixty-one CBC participants 
had to deal with blustery 20-25 mph westerly winds, the weather was otherwise 
very enjoyable with temperatures in the 40's under partly-cloudy skies.  
Despite the wind, 29,427 individual birds of an impressive 127 species were 
counted.  This total is 10 species greater than last year, and well above the 
57-year average of 116 species and ten-year average of 118.

A sampling of our more unusual species (ordered somewhat taxonomically):

Barnacle Goose - Belmont
Virginia Rail - Seatuck
Long-billed Dowitcher - Gardiner
American Woodcock - Heckscher
Wilson's Snipe - behind Xpressions Adult Store, Connetquot
Common Murre - Fire - second count record
Thick-billed Murre - Fire
Iceland Gull - Belmont
Rough-legged Hawk - Jones
Northern Saw-whet Owl - East
Eastern Phoebe - Seatuck
Tree Swallow - Heckscher
Marsh Wren - East
4 Eastern Bluebirds - Connetquot
Rusty Blackbird - East
American Redstart - East - first count record (#245) that likely deserved the 
coveted "Best Bird of the Count" award, which was awarded to Common Murre.
(Western) Palm Warbler - North
3 Pine Warblers - North
Common Yellowthroat - Heckscher
2 Orange-crowned Warblers - North and Seatuck
3 Eastern Meadowlarks - Heckscher

In addition, a Northern Shrike in Heckscher SP, which was unfortunately not 
seen on the count, was observed the prior day (count week) and would be a 128th 
species for the period.

Echoing a previous listserve post by Shai Mitra, there was an impressive, but 
ephemeral, flight of 647 Razorbills that included individuals of both Murre 
species at Robert Moses SP.  This did not beat last year's high of 1,145 birds, 
but it is well above the third-place maximum of 12 Razorbills.  Other new 
maxima included 9 Common Ravens, 19 Chipping Sparrows, and 3 Pine Warblers.

While some numbers were low, we luckily managed to avoid any real unbelievable 
misses (at least by recent standards).  Some of the more regular birds for this 
count that we did miss included American Pipit and Bald Eagle, the latter being 
nearly expected due to their recent regularity at Connetquot River SP.

After many years at Villa Monaco, the compilation dinner this year was held at 
Sea Levels Restaurant in Brightwaters.  The compilation was cheerful and fun, 
with participants enjoying good food and drink with friends and team-members.  
Hopefully this location will be our new home for the compilation.  We are very 
grateful for the generosity of the Great South Bay Audubon Society, whose 
contribution again reduced the cost of the meal for our participants.

Finally, we extend our sincerest gratitude to Pat Lindsay and Shai Mitra, who 
compiled the Captree CBC for over a decade.  Many of the things that make this 
count so great are owed to them, and we hope to keep the traditions going.

We will finalize the results in the coming days and share them with Great South 
Bay Audubon and anyone else who requests a summary.

Thank you to all who joined!

Best,
Taylor Sturm and Brent Bomkamp
Co-compilers

2019CBC-
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Re: [nysbirds-l] 2019 Captree CBC - Preliminary Results

[Bob Grover]

I will get my effort sheet to you this afternoon or tomorrow

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 17, 2019, at 9:25 AM, Taylor Sturm 
mailto:tjst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The 57th Captree Christmas Bird Count, in southwestern Suffolk County, was 
conducted on Sunday, December 15th, 2019.  While the sixty-one CBC participants 
had to deal with blustery 20-25 mph westerly winds, the weather was otherwise 
very enjoyable with temperatures in the 40's under partly-cloudy skies.  
Despite the wind, 29,427 individual birds of an impressive 127 species were 
counted.  This total is 10 species greater than last year, and well above the 
57-year average of 116 species and ten-year average of 118.

A sampling of our more unusual species (ordered somewhat taxonomically):

Barnacle Goose - Belmont
Virginia Rail - Seatuck
Long-billed Dowitcher - Gardiner
American Woodcock - Heckscher
Wilson's Snipe - behind Xpressions Adult Store, Connetquot
Common Murre - Fire - second count record
Thick-billed Murre - Fire
Iceland Gull - Belmont
Rough-legged Hawk - Jones
Northern Saw-whet Owl - East
Eastern Phoebe - Seatuck
Tree Swallow - Heckscher
Marsh Wren - East
4 Eastern Bluebirds - Connetquot
Rusty Blackbird - East
American Redstart - East - first count record (#245) that likely deserved the 
coveted "Best Bird of the Count" award, which was awarded to Common Murre.
(Western) Palm Warbler - North
3 Pine Warblers - North
Common Yellowthroat - Heckscher
2 Orange-crowned Warblers - North and Seatuck
3 Eastern Meadowlarks - Heckscher

In addition, a Northern Shrike in Heckscher SP, which was unfortunately not 
seen on the count, was observed the prior day (count week) and would be a 128th 
species for the period.

Echoing a previous listserve post by Shai Mitra, there was an impressive, but 
ephemeral, flight of 647 Razorbills that included individuals of both Murre 
species at Robert Moses SP.  This did not beat last year's high of 1,145 birds, 
but it is well above the third-place maximum of 12 Razorbills.  Other new 
maxima included 9 Common Ravens, 19 Chipping Sparrows, and 3 Pine Warblers.

While some numbers were low, we luckily managed to avoid any real unbelievable 
misses (at least by recent standards).  Some of the more regular birds for this 
count that we did miss included American Pipit and Bald Eagle, the latter being 
nearly expected due to their recent regularity at Connetquot River SP.

After many years at Villa Monaco, the compilation dinner this year was held at 
Sea Levels Restaurant in Brightwaters.  The compilation was cheerful and fun, 
with participants enjoying good food and drink with friends and team-members.  
Hopefully this location will be our new home for the compilation.  We are very 
grateful for the generosity of the Great South Bay Audubon Society, whose 
contribution again reduced the cost of the meal for our participants.

Finally, we extend our sincerest gratitude to Pat Lindsay and Shai Mitra, who 
compiled the Captree CBC for over a decade.  Many of the things that make this 
count so great are owed to them, and we hope to keep the traditions going.

We will finalize the results in the coming days and share them with Great South 
Bay Audubon and anyone else who requests a summary.

Thank you to all who joined!

Best,
Taylor Sturm and Brent Bomkamp
Co-compilers

2019CBC-
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[nysbirds-l] Input on Screech Owl behavior sought.

[Bob Grover]

Folks,
I have an Eastern Screech Owl currently residing in a box in my West Islip 
backyard..  This is her fifth year!  The first year, the pair fledged 5 
beautiful owlets in late May/early June 2015.  A chronology and photographs can 
be reviewed in the September, 2015 Kingbird.  In year two (2016), they fledged 
four.  In 2017 her nest failed, and I suspect that her mate died, because she 
returned last year with a new, much redder, much more aggressive mate, and they 
hatched either three or, more likely four.  They departed the box very late 
into the night while I was sleeping, making an accurate count impossible, and 
once fledged, they do not return to the box.  I'm am confident that the same 
female has been returning, as she has fairly distinctive, sandy blond 
coloration.  She departs in the first week of June, after all the owlets have 
fledged, and returns to the box typically in October, this year on the 18th.  
So I am curious if anyone has had a screech owl nest for this many years, and 
what is typical.  I had been told, after year one, that they generally don't 
reuse the same cavity in consecutive years. Apparently that wasn't true.  I 
suppose I could research their lifespan, but I tend to be skeptical of 
published figures as they apply to wild animals.
I bought a camera to mount inside the box, but I failed to get it installed 
before she returned last month.  The camera should prove entertaining and also 
safer, as that aggressive male smacked me in the back of my head last June,  to 
the amazement of my wife and some friends, when I got too close to a 
just-fledged owlet!
Any helpful information would be appreciated.

Bob Grover


This communication and any attachments are intended only for the use of the 
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is privileged and/or confidential under applicable law. If you are not the 
intended recipient or such recipient's employee or agent, you are hereby 
notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is 
strictly prohibited and to notify the sender immediately.

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[nysbirds-l] Input on Screech Owl behavior sought.

[Bob Grover]

Folks,
I have an Eastern Screech Owl currently residing in a box in my West Islip 
backyard..  This is her fifth year!  The first year, the pair fledged 5 
beautiful owlets in late May/early June 2015.  A chronology and photographs can 
be reviewed in the September, 2015 Kingbird.  In year two (2016), they fledged 
four.  In 2017 her nest failed, and I suspect that her mate died, because she 
returned last year with a new, much redder, much more aggressive mate, and they 
hatched either three or, more likely four.  They departed the box very late 
into the night while I was sleeping, making an accurate count impossible, and 
once fledged, they do not return to the box.  I'm am confident that the same 
female has been returning, as she has fairly distinctive, sandy blond 
coloration.  She departs in the first week of June, after all the owlets have 
fledged, and returns to the box typically in October, this year on the 18th.  
So I am curious if anyone has had a screech owl nest for this many years, and 
what is typical.  I had been told, after year one, that they generally don't 
reuse the same cavity in consecutive years. Apparently that wasn't true.  I 
suppose I could research their lifespan, but I tend to be skeptical of 
published figures as they apply to wild animals.
I bought a camera to mount inside the box, but I failed to get it installed 
before she returned last month.  The camera should prove entertaining and also 
safer, as that aggressive male smacked me in the back of my head last June,  to 
the amazement of my wife and some friends, when I got too close to a 
just-fledged owlet!
Any helpful information would be appreciated.

Bob Grover


This communication and any attachments are intended only for the use of the 
individual or entity named as the addressee. It may contain information which 
is privileged and/or confidential under applicable law. If you are not the 
intended recipient or such recipient's employee or agent, you are hereby 
notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is 
strictly prohibited and to notify the sender immediately.

--

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