Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Jose G]

e three, I would cautiously exclude Acadian because the bill does not
> look big enough, the face-throat area doesn't look right, and the eye-ring
> is too bold and asymmetrical.
>
>
>
>
>
> As noted by many already, distinguishing Yellow-bellied from "Western" can
> be very difficult, especially when dealing with images rather actual views
> of a living bird. My initial impression was that the bird was consistent
> with Yellow-bellied, but that it looked a bit smaller-headed and more
> crested (points favoring "Western") than I was entirely comfortable with.
> That said, I think an actual "Western" would be more richly colored (I
> don't know them well, but I know that Yellow-bellied can be surprisingly
> drab) and would have a much more obvious small-headed, crested jizz. In
> addition, I think that the high contrast wings look right for
> Yellow-bellied and less consistent with my (admittedly inexperienced)
> impression of "Western."
>
>
>
>
>
> I would lean to Yellow-bellied pending further information about calls,
> further photos, and further commentary from others.
>
>
>
>
>
> Shai Mitra
>
>
> Bay Shore
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> From: bounce-121070624-3714...@list.cornell.edu [
> bounce-121070624-3714...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Andrew Baksh [
> birdingd...@gmail.com]
>
>
> Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 7:20 AM
>
>
> To: Donna Schulman
>
>
> Cc: Angus Wilson; Isaac Grant; <nysbirds-l@cornell.edu>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park
>
>
>
>
>
> Always tough at this time of the year. For me, I would also include
> Acadian to the list of possibilities.
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> "I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the
> ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own
> abhorrence." ~ Frederick Douglass
>
>
>
>
>
> 風 Swift as the wind
>
>
> 林 Quiet as the forest
>
>
> 火 Conquer like the fire
>
>
> 山 Steady as the mountain
>
>
> Sun Tzu<http://refspace.com/quotes/Sun_Tzu>  The Art of War<
> http://refspace.com/quotes/The_Art_of_War>
>
>
>
>
>
> (__/)
>
>
> (= '.'=)
>
>
> (") _ (")
>
>
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device!
>
>
>
>
>
> Andrew Baksh
>
>
> www.birdingdude.blogspot.com<http://www.birdingdude.blogspot.com>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Donna Schulman <queensgir...@gmail.com
> <mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Angus,
>
>
>
>
>
> This looks like the Whatbird discussion:
> http://www.whatbird.com/forum/index.php?/topic/157667-eastern-wood-pewee-nyc/
>
>
>
>
>
> There is also some discussion now going on, on the New York Birders
> Facebook page.
>
>
>
>
>
> Donna
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
> Donna L. Schulman
>
>
> Forest Hills, NY
>
>
> queensgir...@gmail.com<mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/queensgirl>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:41 PM, Angus Wilson <oceanwander...@gmail.com
> <mailto:oceanwander...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Isaac, Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention.
>
>
>
>
>
> As most readers will already know, the field identification of empidonax
> flycatchers in the fall can be extremely difficult but not impossible. I
> think it would be educational and healthy for the list for us to have an
> online discussion of this bird beyond the usual 'it's still here' updates.
>
>
>
>
>
> Based on the eye ring and shape of the bird the main contenders are
> WESTERN FLYCATCHER (WEFL) and YELLOW-BELLIED FLYCATCHER (YBFL). Even though
> YBFL pass through New York City area with some regularity on migration they
> are extremely rare at such a late date, although not unheard of. Using
> 'likelihood' is therefore not really appropriate and we must rely on
> images, live views, and if we get really lucky, some vocalization.
>
>
>
>
>
> I'd be very curious to hear the arguments advocating YBFL put forward on
> Whatbird as mentioned but not expanded upon in John Keane's written
> comments. Perhaps someone who has seen them can paraphrase?
>
>
>
>
>
> At this late hour I am happy to remain agnostic about the identification
> and would like to hear the arguments. Any empid

Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Jose G]

does not
> look big enough, the face-throat area doesn't look right, and the eye-ring
> is too bold and asymmetrical.
>
>
>
>
>
> As noted by many already, distinguishing Yellow-bellied from "Western" can
> be very difficult, especially when dealing with images rather actual views
> of a living bird. My initial impression was that the bird was consistent
> with Yellow-bellied, but that it looked a bit smaller-headed and more
> crested (points favoring "Western") than I was entirely comfortable with.
> That said, I think an actual "Western" would be more richly colored (I
> don't know them well, but I know that Yellow-bellied can be surprisingly
> drab) and would have a much more obvious small-headed, crested jizz. In
> addition, I think that the high contrast wings look right for
> Yellow-bellied and less consistent with my (admittedly inexperienced)
> impression of "Western."
>
>
>
>
>
> I would lean to Yellow-bellied pending further information about calls,
> further photos, and further commentary from others.
>
>
>
>
>
> Shai Mitra
>
>
> Bay Shore
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> From: bounce-121070624-3714...@list.cornell.edu [
> bounce-121070624-3714...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Andrew Baksh [
> birdingd...@gmail.com]
>
>
> Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 7:20 AM
>
>
> To: Donna Schulman
>
>
> Cc: Angus Wilson; Isaac Grant; 
>
>
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park
>
>
>
>
>
> Always tough at this time of the year. For me, I would also include
> Acadian to the list of possibilities.
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> "I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the
> ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own
> abhorrence." ~ Frederick Douglass
>
>
>
>
>
> 風 Swift as the wind
>
>
> 林 Quiet as the forest
>
>
> 火 Conquer like the fire
>
>
> 山 Steady as the mountain
>
>
> Sun Tzu<http://refspace.com/quotes/Sun_Tzu>  The Art of War<
> http://refspace.com/quotes/The_Art_of_War>
>
>
>
>
>
> (__/)
>
>
> (= '.'=)
>
>
> (") _ (")
>
>
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device!
>
>
>
>
>
> Andrew Baksh
>
>
> www.birdingdude.blogspot.com<http://www.birdingdude.blogspot.com>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Donna Schulman  <mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Angus,
>
>
>
>
>
> This looks like the Whatbird discussion:
> http://www.whatbird.com/forum/index.php?/topic/157667-eastern-wood-pewee-nyc/
>
>
>
>
>
> There is also some discussion now going on, on the New York Birders
> Facebook page.
>
>
>
>
>
> Donna
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
> Donna L. Schulman
>
>
> Forest Hills, NY
>
>
> queensgir...@gmail.com<mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/queensgirl>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:41 PM, Angus Wilson  <mailto:oceanwander...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Isaac, Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention.
>
>
>
>
>
> As most readers will already know, the field identification of empidonax
> flycatchers in the fall can be extremely difficult but not impossible. I
> think it would be educational and healthy for the list for us to have an
> online discussion of this bird beyond the usual 'it's still here' updates.
>
>
>
>
>
> Based on the eye ring and shape of the bird the main contenders are
> WESTERN FLYCATCHER (WEFL) and YELLOW-BELLIED FLYCATCHER (YBFL). Even though
> YBFL pass through New York City area with some regularity on migration they
> are extremely rare at such a late date, although not unheard of. Using
> 'likelihood' is therefore not really appropriate and we must rely on
> images, live views, and if we get really lucky, some vocalization.
>
>
>
>
>
> I'd be very curious to hear the arguments advocating YBFL put forward on
> Whatbird as mentioned but not expanded upon in John Keane's written
> comments. Perhaps someone who has seen them can paraphrase?
>
>
>
>
>
> At this late hour I am happy to remain agnostic about the identification
> and would like to hear the arguments. Any empid in December is exciting and
> a great find.
>
>
>
>
>
> Hopefully local birders will be able to refind the bird tomorrow and
> 

Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Hugh McGuinness]

 said, I think an actual "Western" would be more richly colored (I
> don't know them well, but I know that Yellow-bellied can be surprisingly
> drab) and would have a much more obvious small-headed, crested jizz. In
> addition, I think that the high contrast wings look right for
> Yellow-bellied and less consistent with my (admittedly inexperienced)
> impression of "Western."
>
> I would lean to Yellow-bellied pending further information about calls,
> further photos, and further commentary from others.
>
> Shai Mitra
> Bay Shore
>
> ________
> From: bounce-121070624-3714...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-121070624-3714944@
> list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Andrew Baksh [birdingd...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 7:20 AM
> To: Donna Schulman
> Cc: Angus Wilson; Isaac Grant; <nysbirds-l@cornell.edu>
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park
>
> Always tough at this time of the year. For me, I would also include
> Acadian to the list of possibilities.
>
> 
> "I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the
> ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own
> abhorrence." ~ Frederick Douglass
>
> 風 Swift as the wind
> 林 Quiet as the forest
> 火 Conquer like the fire
> 山 Steady as the mountain
> Sun Tzu<http://refspace.com/quotes/Sun_Tzu>  The Art of War<
> http://refspace.com/quotes/The_Art_of_War>
>
> (__/)
> (= '.'=)
> (") _ (")
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device!
>
> Andrew Baksh
> www.birdingdude.blogspot.com<http://www.birdingdude.blogspot.com>
>
> On Dec 8, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Donna Schulman <queensgir...@gmail.com<
> mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Angus,
>
> This looks like the Whatbird discussion:  http://www.whatbird.com/forum/
> index.php?/topic/157667-eastern-wood-pewee-nyc/
>
> There is also some discussion now going on, on the New York Birders
> Facebook page.
>
> Donna
>
> ---
> Donna L. Schulman
> Forest Hills, NY
> queensgir...@gmail.com<mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/queensgirl>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:41 PM, Angus Wilson <oceanwander...@gmail.com<
> mailto:oceanwander...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi Isaac, Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention.
>
> As most readers will already know, the field identification of empidonax
> flycatchers in the fall can be extremely difficult but not impossible. I
> think it would be educational and healthy for the list for us to have an
> online discussion of this bird beyond the usual 'it's still here' updates.
>
> Based on the eye ring and shape of the bird the main contenders are
> WESTERN FLYCATCHER (WEFL) and YELLOW-BELLIED FLYCATCHER (YBFL). Even though
> YBFL pass through New York City area with some regularity on migration they
> are extremely rare at such a late date, although not unheard of. Using
> 'likelihood' is therefore not really appropriate and we must rely on
> images, live views, and if we get really lucky, some vocalization.
>
> I'd be very curious to hear the arguments advocating YBFL put forward on
> Whatbird as mentioned but not expanded upon in John Keane's written
> comments. Perhaps someone who has seen them can paraphrase?
>
> At this late hour I am happy to remain agnostic about the identification
> and would like to hear the arguments. Any empid in December is exciting and
> a great find.
>
> Hopefully local birders will be able to refind the bird tomorrow and
> obtain additional photos. If not, we already have a good set of images to
> chew on.
>
> Cheers, Angus Wilson
> New York City
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:45 PM, isaac grant <hosesbroadb...@gmail.com<
> mailto:hosesbroadb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> This was just posted to ebird.  If any are not on it have a look.
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S32922727
> --
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME>
> Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES>
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/
> NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm>
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@
> cornell.edu/maillist.html>
> Surfbirds<http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L>
> BirdingOnThe.Net<http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html>
> Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!
> 

Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Hugh McGuinness]

ern" would be more richly colored (I
> don't know them well, but I know that Yellow-bellied can be surprisingly
> drab) and would have a much more obvious small-headed, crested jizz. In
> addition, I think that the high contrast wings look right for
> Yellow-bellied and less consistent with my (admittedly inexperienced)
> impression of "Western."
>
> I would lean to Yellow-bellied pending further information about calls,
> further photos, and further commentary from others.
>
> Shai Mitra
> Bay Shore
>
> ____________
> From: bounce-121070624-3714...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-121070624-3714944@
> list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Andrew Baksh [birdingd...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 7:20 AM
> To: Donna Schulman
> Cc: Angus Wilson; Isaac Grant; 
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park
>
> Always tough at this time of the year. For me, I would also include
> Acadian to the list of possibilities.
>
> 
> "I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the
> ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own
> abhorrence." ~ Frederick Douglass
>
> 風 Swift as the wind
> 林 Quiet as the forest
> 火 Conquer like the fire
> 山 Steady as the mountain
> Sun Tzu<http://refspace.com/quotes/Sun_Tzu>  The Art of War<
> http://refspace.com/quotes/The_Art_of_War>
>
> (__/)
> (= '.'=)
> (") _ (")
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device!
>
> Andrew Baksh
> www.birdingdude.blogspot.com<http://www.birdingdude.blogspot.com>
>
> On Dec 8, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Donna Schulman  mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Angus,
>
> This looks like the Whatbird discussion:  http://www.whatbird.com/forum/
> index.php?/topic/157667-eastern-wood-pewee-nyc/
>
> There is also some discussion now going on, on the New York Birders
> Facebook page.
>
> Donna
>
> ---
> Donna L. Schulman
> Forest Hills, NY
> queensgir...@gmail.com<mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/queensgirl>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:41 PM, Angus Wilson  mailto:oceanwander...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi Isaac, Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention.
>
> As most readers will already know, the field identification of empidonax
> flycatchers in the fall can be extremely difficult but not impossible. I
> think it would be educational and healthy for the list for us to have an
> online discussion of this bird beyond the usual 'it's still here' updates.
>
> Based on the eye ring and shape of the bird the main contenders are
> WESTERN FLYCATCHER (WEFL) and YELLOW-BELLIED FLYCATCHER (YBFL). Even though
> YBFL pass through New York City area with some regularity on migration they
> are extremely rare at such a late date, although not unheard of. Using
> 'likelihood' is therefore not really appropriate and we must rely on
> images, live views, and if we get really lucky, some vocalization.
>
> I'd be very curious to hear the arguments advocating YBFL put forward on
> Whatbird as mentioned but not expanded upon in John Keane's written
> comments. Perhaps someone who has seen them can paraphrase?
>
> At this late hour I am happy to remain agnostic about the identification
> and would like to hear the arguments. Any empid in December is exciting and
> a great find.
>
> Hopefully local birders will be able to refind the bird tomorrow and
> obtain additional photos. If not, we already have a good set of images to
> chew on.
>
> Cheers, Angus Wilson
> New York City
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:45 PM, isaac grant  mailto:hosesbroadb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> This was just posted to ebird.  If any are not on it have a look.
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S32922727
> --
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME>
> Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES>
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/
> NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm>
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@
> cornell.edu/maillist.html>
> Surfbirds<http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L>
> BirdingOnThe.Net<http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html>
> Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!
> --
>
> --
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME>
> Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsR

RE: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Shaibal Mitra]

Having asked for more posts to this list, I'll contribute one.

My thought process on any late (after early October) Empidonax in the Northeast 
is roughly as follows:

1. Can we rule out Least?
Least Flycatcher is an abundant species and more prone to late occurrence than 
other common eastern species. In this case, the NY bird appears too green, with 
too long of a primary projection. Its eyering also is narrower on the top and 
bottom and longer to the rear than I would expect for Least.

2. Can we rule out the narrow-billed western North American species (Hammond's, 
Dusky, Gray)?
These three potential vagrants have bills shaped very differently from all our 
common eastern species, which have spade-shaped bills. The NY bird clearly has 
a spade-shaped bill, so these can be excluded.

3. This leaves us with two groups: (A) Willow/Alder/Acadian, which are large 
and lanky (and especially unlikely in December); and (A) 
"Western"/Yellow-bellied, which are small, relatively bright green and yellow, 
very similar-looking, and both proven to occur from time to time in late fall 
in the Northeast. Ken Feustel found a Yellow-bellied at Jones Beach in December 
2009:

https://flic.kr/p/PteiBu

--and he and Bob Paxton have summarized the rare but regular late-season 
occurrence of this species:

http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2002v52n3/y2002v52n3p220-221paxton.pdf#
http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2010v60n2/v2010v60n2p90-94feustel.pdf#

The bird just doesn't look like a Willow/Alder type ("Traill's Flycatcher") by 
virtue of overall appearance. Willow especially would not look so green, would 
not show such a long primary projection, and would have a less distinct 
eyering. Alder averages closer to the NY bird in each of these respects, but 
just not enough to make me consider it seriously. I did, however, get an 
impression of Acadian when first scanning images (especially the more distant 
ones) of the NY bird. The next thing I looked at was leg color: they appear 
gray.

This is interesting because Acadian, Yellow-bellied, and "Western" have gray 
legs, whereas the others have blacker legs. So, picking up here with these 
three, I would cautiously exclude Acadian because the bill does not look big 
enough, the face-throat area doesn't look right, and the eye-ring is too bold 
and asymmetrical.

As noted by many already, distinguishing Yellow-bellied from "Western" can be 
very difficult, especially when dealing with images rather actual views of a 
living bird. My initial impression was that the bird was consistent with 
Yellow-bellied, but that it looked a bit smaller-headed and more crested 
(points favoring "Western") than I was entirely comfortable with. That said, I 
think an actual "Western" would be more richly colored (I don't know them well, 
but I know that Yellow-bellied can be surprisingly drab) and would have a much 
more obvious small-headed, crested jizz. In addition, I think that the high 
contrast wings look right for Yellow-bellied and less consistent with my 
(admittedly inexperienced) impression of "Western."

I would lean to Yellow-bellied pending further information about calls, further 
photos, and further commentary from others.

Shai Mitra
Bay Shore


From: bounce-121070624-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-121070624-3714...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Andrew Baksh 
[birdingd...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 7:20 AM
To: Donna Schulman
Cc: Angus Wilson; Isaac Grant; <nysbirds-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

Always tough at this time of the year. For me, I would also include Acadian to 
the list of possibilities.


"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of 
others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence." ~ Frederick 
Douglass

風　Swift as the wind
林　Quiet as the forest
火　Conquer like the fire
山　Steady as the mountain
Sun Tzu<http://refspace.com/quotes/Sun_Tzu>  The Art of 
War<http://refspace.com/quotes/The_Art_of_War>

(__/)
(= '.'=)
(") _ (")
Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device!

Andrew Baksh
www.birdingdude.blogspot.com<http://www.birdingdude.blogspot.com>

On Dec 8, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Donna Schulman 
<queensgir...@gmail.com<mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Angus,

This looks like the Whatbird discussion:  
http://www.whatbird.com/forum/index.php?/topic/157667-eastern-wood-pewee-nyc/

There is also some discussion now going on, on the New York Birders Facebook 
page.

Donna

---
Donna L. Schulman
Forest Hills, NY
queensgir...@gmail.com<mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>



<http://www.flickr.com/photos/queensgirl>

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:41 PM, Angus Wilson 
<oceanwander...@gmail.com<mailto:oceanwander...@gmail

RE: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Shaibal Mitra]

Having asked for more posts to this list, I'll contribute one.

My thought process on any late (after early October) Empidonax in the Northeast 
is roughly as follows:

1. Can we rule out Least?
Least Flycatcher is an abundant species and more prone to late occurrence than 
other common eastern species. In this case, the NY bird appears too green, with 
too long of a primary projection. Its eyering also is narrower on the top and 
bottom and longer to the rear than I would expect for Least.

2. Can we rule out the narrow-billed western North American species (Hammond's, 
Dusky, Gray)?
These three potential vagrants have bills shaped very differently from all our 
common eastern species, which have spade-shaped bills. The NY bird clearly has 
a spade-shaped bill, so these can be excluded.

3. This leaves us with two groups: (A) Willow/Alder/Acadian, which are large 
and lanky (and especially unlikely in December); and (A) 
"Western"/Yellow-bellied, which are small, relatively bright green and yellow, 
very similar-looking, and both proven to occur from time to time in late fall 
in the Northeast. Ken Feustel found a Yellow-bellied at Jones Beach in December 
2009:

https://flic.kr/p/PteiBu

--and he and Bob Paxton have summarized the rare but regular late-season 
occurrence of this species:

http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2002v52n3/y2002v52n3p220-221paxton.pdf#
http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2010v60n2/v2010v60n2p90-94feustel.pdf#

The bird just doesn't look like a Willow/Alder type ("Traill's Flycatcher") by 
virtue of overall appearance. Willow especially would not look so green, would 
not show such a long primary projection, and would have a less distinct 
eyering. Alder averages closer to the NY bird in each of these respects, but 
just not enough to make me consider it seriously. I did, however, get an 
impression of Acadian when first scanning images (especially the more distant 
ones) of the NY bird. The next thing I looked at was leg color: they appear 
gray.

This is interesting because Acadian, Yellow-bellied, and "Western" have gray 
legs, whereas the others have blacker legs. So, picking up here with these 
three, I would cautiously exclude Acadian because the bill does not look big 
enough, the face-throat area doesn't look right, and the eye-ring is too bold 
and asymmetrical.

As noted by many already, distinguishing Yellow-bellied from "Western" can be 
very difficult, especially when dealing with images rather actual views of a 
living bird. My initial impression was that the bird was consistent with 
Yellow-bellied, but that it looked a bit smaller-headed and more crested 
(points favoring "Western") than I was entirely comfortable with. That said, I 
think an actual "Western" would be more richly colored (I don't know them well, 
but I know that Yellow-bellied can be surprisingly drab) and would have a much 
more obvious small-headed, crested jizz. In addition, I think that the high 
contrast wings look right for Yellow-bellied and less consistent with my 
(admittedly inexperienced) impression of "Western."

I would lean to Yellow-bellied pending further information about calls, further 
photos, and further commentary from others.

Shai Mitra
Bay Shore


From: bounce-121070624-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-121070624-3714...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Andrew Baksh 
[birdingd...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 7:20 AM
To: Donna Schulman
Cc: Angus Wilson; Isaac Grant; 
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

Always tough at this time of the year. For me, I would also include Acadian to 
the list of possibilities.


"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of 
others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence." ~ Frederick 
Douglass

風　Swift as the wind
林　Quiet as the forest
火　Conquer like the fire
山　Steady as the mountain
Sun Tzu<http://refspace.com/quotes/Sun_Tzu>  The Art of 
War<http://refspace.com/quotes/The_Art_of_War>

(__/)
(= '.'=)
(") _ (")
Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device!

Andrew Baksh
www.birdingdude.blogspot.com<http://www.birdingdude.blogspot.com>

On Dec 8, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Donna Schulman 
mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Angus,

This looks like the Whatbird discussion:  
http://www.whatbird.com/forum/index.php?/topic/157667-eastern-wood-pewee-nyc/

There is also some discussion now going on, on the New York Birders Facebook 
page.

Donna

---
Donna L. Schulman
Forest Hills, NY
queensgir...@gmail.com<mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>



<http://www.flickr.com/photos/queensgirl>

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:41 PM, Angus Wilson 
mailto:oceanwander...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Isaac, Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention.

As most reader

Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Andrew Baksh]

Always tough at this time of the year. For me, I would also include Acadian to 
the list of possibilities.


"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of 
others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence." ~ Frederick 
Douglass

風　Swift as the wind
林　Quiet as the forest
火　Conquer like the fire
山　Steady as the mountain
Sun Tzu  The Art of War

> (__/)
> (= '.'=)
> (") _ (") 
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device! 

Andrew Baksh
www.birdingdude.blogspot.com

> On Dec 8, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Donna Schulman  wrote:
> 
> Angus,
> 
> This looks like the Whatbird discussion:  
> http://www.whatbird.com/forum/index.php?/topic/157667-eastern-wood-pewee-nyc/
> 
> There is also some discussion now going on, on the New York Birders Facebook 
> page.
> 
> Donna 
> 
> ---
> Donna L. Schulman
> Forest Hills, NY 
> queensgir...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:41 PM, Angus Wilson  
>> wrote:
>> Hi Isaac, Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention. 
>> 
>> As most readers will already know, the field identification of empidonax 
>> flycatchers in the fall can be extremely difficult but not impossible. I 
>> think it would be educational and healthy for the list for us to have an 
>> online discussion of this bird beyond the usual 'it's still here' updates. 
>> 
>> Based on the eye ring and shape of the bird the main contenders are WESTERN 
>> FLYCATCHER (WEFL) and YELLOW-BELLIED FLYCATCHER (YBFL). Even though YBFL 
>> pass through New York City area with some regularity on migration they are 
>> extremely rare at such a late date, although not unheard of. Using 
>> 'likelihood' is therefore not really appropriate and we must rely on images, 
>> live views, and if we get really lucky, some vocalization. 
>> 
>> I'd be very curious to hear the arguments advocating YBFL put forward on 
>> Whatbird as mentioned but not expanded upon in John Keane's written 
>> comments. Perhaps someone who has seen them can paraphrase?
>> 
>> At this late hour I am happy to remain agnostic about the identification and 
>> would like to hear the arguments. Any empid in December is exciting and a 
>> great find. 
>> 
>> Hopefully local birders will be able to refind the bird tomorrow and obtain 
>> additional photos. If not, we already have a good set of images to chew on.
>> 
>> Cheers, Angus Wilson
>> New York City
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:45 PM, isaac grant  
>>> wrote:
>>> This was just posted to ebird.  If any are not on it have a look.  
>>> 
>>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S32922727
>> 
>> --
>> NYSbirds-L List Info:
>> Welcome and Basics
>> Rules and Information
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> Archives:
>> The Mail Archive
>> Surfbirds
>> BirdingOnThe.Net
>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>> --
> 
> --
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics
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> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
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> The Mail Archive
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> Please submit your observations to eBird!
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Andrew Baksh]

Always tough at this time of the year. For me, I would also include Acadian to 
the list of possibilities.


"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of 
others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence." ~ Frederick 
Douglass

風　Swift as the wind
林　Quiet as the forest
火　Conquer like the fire
山　Steady as the mountain
Sun Tzu  The Art of War

> (__/)
> (= '.'=)
> (") _ (") 
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device! 

Andrew Baksh
www.birdingdude.blogspot.com

> On Dec 8, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Donna Schulman  wrote:
> 
> Angus,
> 
> This looks like the Whatbird discussion:  
> http://www.whatbird.com/forum/index.php?/topic/157667-eastern-wood-pewee-nyc/
> 
> There is also some discussion now going on, on the New York Birders Facebook 
> page.
> 
> Donna 
> 
> ---
> Donna L. Schulman
> Forest Hills, NY 
> queensgir...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:41 PM, Angus Wilson  
>> wrote:
>> Hi Isaac, Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention. 
>> 
>> As most readers will already know, the field identification of empidonax 
>> flycatchers in the fall can be extremely difficult but not impossible. I 
>> think it would be educational and healthy for the list for us to have an 
>> online discussion of this bird beyond the usual 'it's still here' updates. 
>> 
>> Based on the eye ring and shape of the bird the main contenders are WESTERN 
>> FLYCATCHER (WEFL) and YELLOW-BELLIED FLYCATCHER (YBFL). Even though YBFL 
>> pass through New York City area with some regularity on migration they are 
>> extremely rare at such a late date, although not unheard of. Using 
>> 'likelihood' is therefore not really appropriate and we must rely on images, 
>> live views, and if we get really lucky, some vocalization. 
>> 
>> I'd be very curious to hear the arguments advocating YBFL put forward on 
>> Whatbird as mentioned but not expanded upon in John Keane's written 
>> comments. Perhaps someone who has seen them can paraphrase?
>> 
>> At this late hour I am happy to remain agnostic about the identification and 
>> would like to hear the arguments. Any empid in December is exciting and a 
>> great find. 
>> 
>> Hopefully local birders will be able to refind the bird tomorrow and obtain 
>> additional photos. If not, we already have a good set of images to chew on.
>> 
>> Cheers, Angus Wilson
>> New York City
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:45 PM, isaac grant  
>>> wrote:
>>> This was just posted to ebird.  If any are not on it have a look.  
>>> 
>>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S32922727
>> 
>> --
>> NYSbirds-L List Info:
>> Welcome and Basics
>> Rules and Information
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> Archives:
>> The Mail Archive
>> Surfbirds
>> BirdingOnThe.Net
>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>> --
> 
> --
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics
> Rules and Information
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive
> Surfbirds
> BirdingOnThe.Net
> Please submit your observations to eBird!
> --

--

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3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Donna Schulman]

Angus,

This looks like the Whatbird discussion:
http://www.whatbird.com/forum/index.php?/topic/157667-eastern-wood-pewee-nyc/

There is also some discussion now going on, on the New York Birders
Facebook page.

Donna

*---*




*Donna L. SchulmanForest Hills, NY queensgir...@gmail.com
*


* *

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:41 PM, Angus Wilson 
wrote:

> Hi Isaac, Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention.
>
> As most readers will already know, the field identification of empidonax
> flycatchers in the fall can be extremely difficult but not impossible. I
> think it would be educational and healthy for the list for us to have an
> online discussion of this bird beyond the usual 'it's still here' updates.
>
> Based on the eye ring and shape of the bird the main contenders are
> WESTERN FLYCATCHER (WEFL) and YELLOW-BELLIED FLYCATCHER (YBFL). Even though
> YBFL pass through New York City area with some regularity on migration they
> are extremely rare at such a late date, although not unheard of. Using
> 'likelihood' is therefore not really appropriate and we must rely on
> images, live views, and if we get really lucky, some vocalization.
>
> I'd be very curious to hear the arguments advocating YBFL put forward on
> Whatbird as mentioned but not expanded upon in John Keane's written
> comments. Perhaps someone who has seen them can paraphrase?
>
> At this late hour I am happy to remain agnostic about the identification
> and would like to hear the arguments. Any empid in December is exciting and
> a great find.
>
> Hopefully local birders will be able to refind the bird tomorrow and
> obtain additional photos. If not, we already have a good set of images to
> chew on.
>
> Cheers, Angus Wilson
> New York City
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:45 PM, isaac grant 
> wrote:
>
>> This was just posted to ebird.  If any are not on it have a look.
>>
>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S32922727
>>
> --
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> 
> *Archives:*
> The Mail Archive
> 
> Surfbirds 
> BirdingOnThe.Net 
> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
> *!*
> --
>

--

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Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

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Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Donna Schulman]

Angus,

This looks like the Whatbird discussion:
http://www.whatbird.com/forum/index.php?/topic/157667-eastern-wood-pewee-nyc/

There is also some discussion now going on, on the New York Birders
Facebook page.

Donna

*---*




*Donna L. SchulmanForest Hills, NY queensgir...@gmail.com
*


* *

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:41 PM, Angus Wilson 
wrote:

> Hi Isaac, Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention.
>
> As most readers will already know, the field identification of empidonax
> flycatchers in the fall can be extremely difficult but not impossible. I
> think it would be educational and healthy for the list for us to have an
> online discussion of this bird beyond the usual 'it's still here' updates.
>
> Based on the eye ring and shape of the bird the main contenders are
> WESTERN FLYCATCHER (WEFL) and YELLOW-BELLIED FLYCATCHER (YBFL). Even though
> YBFL pass through New York City area with some regularity on migration they
> are extremely rare at such a late date, although not unheard of. Using
> 'likelihood' is therefore not really appropriate and we must rely on
> images, live views, and if we get really lucky, some vocalization.
>
> I'd be very curious to hear the arguments advocating YBFL put forward on
> Whatbird as mentioned but not expanded upon in John Keane's written
> comments. Perhaps someone who has seen them can paraphrase?
>
> At this late hour I am happy to remain agnostic about the identification
> and would like to hear the arguments. Any empid in December is exciting and
> a great find.
>
> Hopefully local birders will be able to refind the bird tomorrow and
> obtain additional photos. If not, we already have a good set of images to
> chew on.
>
> Cheers, Angus Wilson
> New York City
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:45 PM, isaac grant 
> wrote:
>
>> This was just posted to ebird.  If any are not on it have a look.
>>
>> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S32922727
>>
> --
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> 
> *Archives:*
> The Mail Archive
> 
> Surfbirds 
> BirdingOnThe.Net 
> *Please submit your observations to **eBird*
> *!*
> --
>

--

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Please submit your observations to eBird:
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Angus Wilson]

Hi Isaac, Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention.

As most readers will already know, the field identification of empidonax
flycatchers in the fall can be extremely difficult but not impossible. I
think it would be educational and healthy for the list for us to have an
online discussion of this bird beyond the usual 'it's still here' updates.

Based on the eye ring and shape of the bird the main contenders are WESTERN
FLYCATCHER (WEFL) and YELLOW-BELLIED FLYCATCHER (YBFL). Even though YBFL
pass through New York City area with some regularity on migration they are
extremely rare at such a late date, although not unheard of. Using
'likelihood' is therefore not really appropriate and we must rely on
images, live views, and if we get really lucky, some vocalization.

I'd be very curious to hear the arguments advocating YBFL put forward on
Whatbird as mentioned but not expanded upon in John Keane's written
comments. Perhaps someone who has seen them can paraphrase?

At this late hour I am happy to remain agnostic about the identification
and would like to hear the arguments. Any empid in December is exciting and
a great find.

Hopefully local birders will be able to refind the bird tomorrow and obtain
additional photos. If not, we already have a good set of images to chew on.

Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City


On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:45 PM, isaac grant 
wrote:

> This was just posted to ebird.  If any are not on it have a look.
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S32922727
>

--

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Please submit your observations to eBird:
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Manhattan Empidonax - Inwood Hill Park

[Angus Wilson]

Hi Isaac, Thanks for bring this to everyone's attention.

As most readers will already know, the field identification of empidonax
flycatchers in the fall can be extremely difficult but not impossible. I
think it would be educational and healthy for the list for us to have an
online discussion of this bird beyond the usual 'it's still here' updates.

Based on the eye ring and shape of the bird the main contenders are WESTERN
FLYCATCHER (WEFL) and YELLOW-BELLIED FLYCATCHER (YBFL). Even though YBFL
pass through New York City area with some regularity on migration they are
extremely rare at such a late date, although not unheard of. Using
'likelihood' is therefore not really appropriate and we must rely on
images, live views, and if we get really lucky, some vocalization.

I'd be very curious to hear the arguments advocating YBFL put forward on
Whatbird as mentioned but not expanded upon in John Keane's written
comments. Perhaps someone who has seen them can paraphrase?

At this late hour I am happy to remain agnostic about the identification
and would like to hear the arguments. Any empid in December is exciting and
a great find.

Hopefully local birders will be able to refind the bird tomorrow and obtain
additional photos. If not, we already have a good set of images to chew on.

Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City


On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:45 PM, isaac grant 
wrote:

> This was just posted to ebird.  If any are not on it have a look.
>
> http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist/S32922727
>

--

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