Re: Road Safety Training was [obc] Sidewalk Cycling
Peter == Peter James [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] Peter A simple example of this is crossing the road. I'm Peter convinced that most children now don't learn how to cross Peter the road - because it's a skill related to walking to Peter school and to shopping in a neighbourhood street, not in a Peter mall. But even so, it is North American practice to force Peter pedestrians to cross at an intersection - where traffic is Peter coming from as many as four different directions, and Peter visibility is often poor. [snip] It's also an indictment against the design of most cities in North America. Look at your typical suburb and compare to downtown. Worst still, there are lots of places where the powers-that-be don't even put sidewalks (U.K. pavement?) in. -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Road Safety Training was [obc] Sidewalk Cycling
Yes, yes, yes. I agree with Peter's observations/conclusions - and I really wonder how many people with marginal traffic sense luck out and pass motor-driving tests... Celia Peter James wrote: But in today's society, children rarely interact with traffic. At home they are bundled into SUV's, unable to see the traffic ahead because of the headrests on the front seats. Very little opportunity here to learn how the traffic works. At the mall they are sheperded from the parking stall to the entrance, with no concept of roads, intersections, or who has right of way. When they go to school they wait at the side of the road for the school bus - and if it's on the other side of the road all the traffic magically stops so that they can cross the road. No chance to learn to cross the road safely. Then at school the bus probably lets them out in a restricted-access area. Again, no interaction and no learning. Finally, arriving back at home they again cross the road, this time from in front of a parked vehicle - which in any other circumstances is the most dangerous place to cross, being hidden from traffic approaching from the rear. I have taught children (other than my own) and their lack of traffic sense was, in short, terrifying. At first I wondered if their parents were blindfolding them in their vehicles! My younger son, 8 at the time, came to one of the classes, and he too noticed this. It was from those experiences that I developed the train of thought I've summarized above. It's an indictment of society that we've taught childern to be afraid of traffic, instead of understanding the rules and how they work (or don't). A simple example of this is crossing the road. I'm convinced that most children now don't learn how to cross the road - because it's a skill related to walking to school and to shopping in a neighbourhood street, not in a mall. But even so, it is North American practice to force pedestrians to cross at an intersection - where traffic is coming from as many as four different directions, and visibility is often poor. Now granted sometimes you have to cross at a intersection, but often you don't. In the UK we were discouraged from crossing at intersections, and encouraged to cross mid-block. Here traffic only comes from two directions, visibility is better, and drivers aren't distracted by the other challenges asssociated with negotiating an intersection. -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [obc] Sidewalk Cycling
Well Avery: CAN-BIKE teaches those exact same principles. However I find from teaching Kids CAN-BIKE that the eight year olds have a little trouble with the concepts. At eight years old your perception is just starting to develop. They cannot judge distance between moving objects, let alone the experience required to judge when to move left (unless there are no cars around). Therefore two questions: 1. Do you expect an eight year old to judge distance of a two ton object travelling at 40 km/hr? 2. How do you cycle with a child under eight? Peter McNichol Avery Burdett wrote: John Forester (Effective Cycling) believes virtually any grade 3 child can be taught, absorb and perform the following three fundamental concepts: 1. Ride on the right-hand side of the roadway, not on the left and not on the sidewalk. 2. How to yield to crossing traffic when reaching a superior roadway. 3. How to yield to overtaking traffic when moving laterally. Each child has his or her own individual cognitive and physical abilities, so knowledgeable cycling parents could start vehicular cycling instruction to their kids as early as five years of age on quiet residential streets. I did with my two sons - soon after they could balance on a two wheeler. It is not unreasonable for kids to be riding alone on residential streets near home with about a year's worth of supervised practice. Contemporaneously, they should be introduced to Forester's next two concepts: 4. Destination positioning at intersections. (i.e. getting to the proper place in preparation for a turn) 5. Speed positioning between intersections (e.g. passing a slower cyclist) Within a year or so they can be introduced (under supervision) to four lane roads, higher traffic densities and more complex traffic patterns. Forester source: http://www.johnforester.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Avery, I couldn't agree more that young children need to be supervised. For us parents, I was wondering at what developmental stages would you introduce the various aspects of vehicular cycling? As you say, vehicular road cycling starts the day they start to ride. Mom on a Bike Avery Burdett wrote: The children I refer to are ones that need adult supervision no matter where they ride. Children (under supervision of course) should be introduced to vehicular road cycling from the day they start to ride. -Original Message- From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent:Wednesday, September 05, 2001 9:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [obc] Lowell Green on CFRA There are many competent cyclist out there who may or may not belong to the many great cycling clubs and organizations this whole region has to offer. In saying that I noticed out of between 15 to 20 child cylist I saw riding home on their bikes, only one rode appropriately. The others rode on the sidewalk, did not look, turned left from the right side of the road, rode up the wrong side of the street. There are apporximately 100,000 school age child cyclist in this city. That would mean they outnumber OBC riders 100:1. Mom on a Bike Paul Lindsay wrote: Re: [obc] Lowell Green on CFRAThing is, a lot of cyclists are jerks. How many cyclists out there are actually following the rules of the road and behaving decently? Not many. We're used to riding with our OBC friends and on club rides and loops in the Gats when for the most part most cyclists are either incompetant commuters or bike path and sidewalk noodlers that are two eggs short of a dozen. Just a day or two ago I wrote an e-mail to one of the editors of the car magazine Wheels for tarring all cyclists with scorn and innuendo similar to the reported Lowell Green incident. This guy referred to all riders as suicyclists and was angry that we all bitch and complain about car drivers but don't follow the rules of the road ourselves. Such media people are dangerous. On the other hand, I think Michael's comments sound a bit 'elitist'. I think there are many commuters, bike path riders, and general tourist cyclists, equally competent and law-abiding as those of the OBC. And there are numerous times I have seen club members running lights and stop signs (somtimes wearing their OBC jersey). Paul L. -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter -- To unsubscribe, send
Re: Road Safety Training was [obc] Sidewalk Cycling
] Sidewalk Cycling
Well Avery:
CAN-BIKE teaches those exact same principles.
However I find from teaching Kids CAN-BIKE that the eight year olds
have a little trouble with the concepts. At eight years old your
perception is just starting to develop. They cannot judge distance
between moving objects, let alone the experience required to judge
when to move left (unless there are no cars around).
Therefore two questions:
1. Do you expect an eight year old to judge distance of a two ton
object travelling at 40 km/hr?
2. How do you cycle with a child under eight?
Peter McNichol
Avery Burdett wrote:
John Forester (Effective Cycling) believes virtually any grade 3 child
can be taught, absorb and perform the following three fundamental
concepts:
1. Ride on the right-hand side of the roadway, not on the left and
not on the sidewalk.
2. How to yield to crossing traffic when reaching a superior roadway.
3. How to yield to overtaking traffic when moving laterally.
Each child has his or her own individual cognitive and physical
abilities, so knowledgeable cycling parents could start vehicular
cycling instruction to their kids as early as five years of age on quiet
residential streets. I did with my two sons - soon after they could
balance on a two wheeler. It is not unreasonable for kids to be riding
alone on residential streets near home with about a year's worth of
supervised practice. Contemporaneously, they should be introduced to
Forester's next two concepts:
4. Destination positioning at intersections.
(i.e. getting to the proper place in preparation for a turn)
5. Speed positioning between intersections
(e.g. passing a slower cyclist)
Within a year or so they can be introduced (under supervision) to four
lane roads, higher traffic densities and more complex traffic patterns.
Forester source: http://www.johnforester.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Avery,
I couldn't agree more that young children need to be supervised. For
us
parents, I
was wondering at what developmental stages would you introduce the
various aspects of
vehicular cycling? As you say, vehicular road cycling starts the day
they start to
ride.
Mom on a Bike
Avery Burdett wrote:
The children I refer to are
ones that need adult supervision no matter where they ride. Children
(under
supervision of course) should be introduced to vehicular road
cycling
from the
day they start to ride.
-Original Message-
From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:Wednesday, September 05, 2001 9:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [obc] Lowell Green on CFRA
There are many competent cyclist out there who may or may not
belong to
the many
great cycling clubs and organizations this whole region has to
offer.
In saying that I noticed out of between 15 to 20 child cylist I
saw
riding
home on
their bikes, only one rode appropriately. The others rode on the
sidewalk,
did not
look, turned left from the right side of the road, rode up the
wrong
side
of the
street. There are apporximately 100,000 school age child cyclist
in this
city. That
would mean they outnumber OBC riders 100:1.
Mom on a Bike
Paul Lindsay wrote:
Re: [obc] Lowell Green on CFRAThing is, a lot of cyclists
are jerks.
How
many cyclists out there are actually
following the rules of the road and behaving decently? Not
many.
We're used
to riding with our OBC friends and on club rides and loops in
the Gats
when for
the most part most cyclists are either incompetant commuters
or bike
path and
sidewalk noodlers that are two eggs short of a dozen.
Just a day or two ago I wrote an e-mail to one of the editors
of the
car
magazine Wheels for tarring all cyclists with scorn and
innuendo
similar to
the reported Lowell Green incident. This guy referred to all
riders as
suicyclists and was angry that we all bitch and complain
about car
drivers
but don't follow the rules of the road ourselves. Such media
people are
dangerous.
On the other hand, I think Michael's comments sound a bit
'elitist'.
I
think
there are many commuters, bike path riders, and general tourist
cyclists,
equally competent and law-abiding as those of the OBC. And
there are
numerous
times I have seen club members running lights and stop signs
(somtimes
wearing
their OBC jersey).
Paul L.
--
To unsubscribe, send a blank
Re: [obc] Sidewalk Cycling
Who teaches the car drivers that the child in the lane has rights to the lane. I have not allowed my 12 year old son to bicycle to school, because if he makes an inch difference mistake of where he should be in the straight through lane on Orleans Blvd, I will be visting him in CHEO. I have on off hours headed with him to his school and the car drivers are merciless in their determination for every inch of road. Just as an aside, in the bus lane on Montreal road, before 17:00 hrs some clown hit my cycle mirror with his car mirror, while stopped at a traffic light. Just some little Toyota with the whole family in the car, so obviously he was not in a hurry to get to the baby sitters to pick up the kids. Back to my son, his path would be all residential until he has to cross St. Joseph Blvd, there is a RT lane and straight through lanes, and if he miss judges the lane he will be toast by some insignificatn cager who is in a hurry; to cause an incident. FYI, I told Graydon at the Police Blitz meeting that we should corporately send a letter to the Chief of Police informing him that the citizens of this city would be in favour of no-leinency towards speeding in a 40k (or 60k)zone, ie. 41 is a ticket. And conversely let the cagers have there 20 k buffer on the 80k and over roadways. They do it anyways. 2001-09-08 5:32:55 AM, Perry McKenna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought my two boys at the age of 6 and 7 to ride on the streets on not on the sidewalks and to assume the correct position when making turns. Now two years later we still have not ventured out of Stittsville, but have cycled down the busy Main Street. All of this under supervision. They are already comfortable having cars beside them and feel safer on the roads than on the sidewalks. As for large vehicles, or for that matter any vehicle moving at 40 to 60 k/h, I let them make the decision if they should proceed, by asking them to let me know if you can merge, turn or proceed If I am not comfortable with their decision, I tell them not to proceed and why. I think the key is to start riding in traffic in your residential area, and to progressively moved up to busier streets. Our next challenge will be riding to Kanata. Perry McKenna - Original Message - From: Peter McNichol [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 5:55 AM Subject: Re: [obc] Sidewalk Cycling Well Avery: CAN-BIKE teaches those exact same principles. However I find from teaching Kids CAN-BIKE that the eight year olds have a little trouble with the concepts. At eight years old your perception is just starting to develop. They cannot judge distance between moving objects, let alone the experience required to judge when to move left (unless there are no cars around). Therefore two questions: 1. Do you expect an eight year old to judge distance of a two ton object travelling at 40 km/hr? 2. How do you cycle with a child under eight? Peter McNichol Avery Burdett wrote: John Forester (Effective Cycling) believes virtually any grade 3 child can be taught, absorb and perform the following three fundamental concepts: 1. Ride on the right-hand side of the roadway, not on the left and not on the sidewalk. 2. How to yield to crossing traffic when reaching a superior roadway. 3. How to yield to overtaking traffic when moving laterally. Each child has his or her own individual cognitive and physical abilities, so knowledgeable cycling parents could start vehicular cycling instruction to their kids as early as five years of age on quiet residential streets. I did with my two sons - soon after they could balance on a two wheeler. It is not unreasonable for kids to be riding alone on residential streets near home with about a year's worth of supervised practice. Contemporaneously, they should be introduced to Forester's next two concepts: 4. Destination positioning at intersections. (i.e. getting to the proper place in preparation for a turn) 5. Speed positioning between intersections (e.g. passing a slower cyclist) Within a year or so they can be introduced (under supervision) to four lane roads, higher traffic densities and more complex traffic patterns. Forester source: http://www.johnforester.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Avery, I couldn't agree more that young children need to be supervised. For us parents, I was wondering at what developmental stages would you introduce the various aspects of vehicular cycling? As you say, vehicular road cycling starts the day they start to ride. Mom on a Bike Avery Burdett wrote: The children I refer to are ones that need adult supervision no matter where they ride. Children (under supervision of course) should be introduced to vehicular road cycling from the day they start to ride. -Original
RE: [obc] Sidewalk Cycling
John Forester (Effective Cycling) believes virtually any grade 3 child can be taught, absorb and perform the following three fundamental concepts: 1. Ride on the right-hand side of the roadway, not on the left and not on the sidewalk. 2. How to yield to crossing traffic when reaching a superior roadway. 3. How to yield to overtaking traffic when moving laterally. Each child has his or her own individual cognitive and physical abilities, so knowledgeable cycling parents could start vehicular cycling instruction to their kids as early as five years of age on quiet residential streets. I did with my two sons - soon after they could balance on a two wheeler. It is not unreasonable for kids to be riding alone on residential streets near home with about a year's worth of supervised practice. Contemporaneously, they should be introduced to Forester's next two concepts: 4. Destination positioning at intersections. (i.e. getting to the proper place in preparation for a turn) 5. Speed positioning between intersections (e.g. passing a slower cyclist) Within a year or so they can be introduced (under supervision) to four lane roads, higher traffic densities and more complex traffic patterns. Forester source: http://www.johnforester.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Avery, I couldn't agree more that young children need to be supervised. For us parents, I was wondering at what developmental stages would you introduce the various aspects of vehicular cycling? As you say, vehicular road cycling starts the day they start to ride. Mom on a Bike Avery Burdett wrote: The children I refer to are ones that need adult supervision no matter where they ride. Children (under supervision of course) should be introduced to vehicular road cycling from the day they start to ride. -Original Message- From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent:Wednesday, September 05, 2001 9:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [obc] Lowell Green on CFRA There are many competent cyclist out there who may or may not belong to the many great cycling clubs and organizations this whole region has to offer. In saying that I noticed out of between 15 to 20 child cylist I saw riding home on their bikes, only one rode appropriately. The others rode on the sidewalk, did not look, turned left from the right side of the road, rode up the wrong side of the street. There are apporximately 100,000 school age child cyclist in this city. That would mean they outnumber OBC riders 100:1. Mom on a Bike Paul Lindsay wrote: Re: [obc] Lowell Green on CFRAThing is, a lot of cyclists are jerks. How many cyclists out there are actually following the rules of the road and behaving decently? Not many. We're used to riding with our OBC friends and on club rides and loops in the Gats when for the most part most cyclists are either incompetant commuters or bike path and sidewalk noodlers that are two eggs short of a dozen. Just a day or two ago I wrote an e-mail to one of the editors of the car magazine Wheels for tarring all cyclists with scorn and innuendo similar to the reported Lowell Green incident. This guy referred to all riders as suicyclists and was angry that we all bitch and complain about car drivers but don't follow the rules of the road ourselves. Such media people are dangerous. On the other hand, I think Michael's comments sound a bit 'elitist'. I think there are many commuters, bike path riders, and general tourist cyclists, equally competent and law-abiding as those of the OBC. And there are numerous times I have seen club members running lights and stop signs (somtimes wearing their OBC jersey). Paul L. -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter -- Avery Burdett Ottawa, Ontario -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office:
