Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[nooalf]

On billboards? That woud be kool! 


Thanks for the little Chromebook tutorial. I'v been too bizzy to learn how to 
use it. I'm slowly digging myself out of the Windows mindset. 
  



On 5 Nov 2013, at 10:52, noo...@aol.com wrote:

> HAHAHA! Who iz Bruno Maag? 

He runs a well known type design agency. He’s a loud critic of Free fonts. But 
don’t get the wrong idea, i like him and admire the work he & his agency does. 
Just thought it would make a good specimen for JRUG_PUNK.

So nooalf, when are we going to see your fonts being used big time? They should 
be on billboards imo.

> 
> How do you get the font to show up without it being installed? 
> (I'm on a Chromebook rite now)

If you want to view the character set of a font using a Chromebook, you can add 
the .otf or .ttf file to your google drive @ https://drive.google.com/#my-drive
then you can double click the font file in your drive, and Google docs will 
preview the font characters for you.


> 
> The correct spelling for that iz KoKSUKR.

can’t believe i missed that






-Original Message-
From: vernon adams 
To: Open Font Library 
Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 4:58 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting



On 5 Nov 2013, at 10:52, noo...@aol.com wrote:

> HAHAHA! Who iz Bruno Maag? 

He runs a well known type design agency. He’s a loud critic of Free fonts. But 
don’t get the wrong idea, i like him and admire the work he & his agency does. 
Just thought it would make a good specimen for JRUG_PUNK.

So nooalf, when are we going to see your fonts being used big time? They should 
be on billboards imo.

> 
> How do you get the font to show up without it being installed? 
> (I'm on a Chromebook rite now)

If you want to view the character set of a font using a Chromebook, you can add 
the .otf or .ttf file to your google drive @ https://drive.google.com/#my-drive
then you can double click the font file in your drive, and Google docs will 
preview the font characters for you.


> 
> The correct spelling for that iz KoKSUKR.

can’t believe i missed that


 

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Vernon Adams]

The criticism is usually based on around 2 things;
‘quality' and ‘money’. 
The argument allways goes along the lines of; ‘all these free fonts are 
lowering type design standards’, and, ‘all these free fonts are reducing the 
traditional economic value of fonts’. I’m sure there’s some videos or 2 from 
Atypi etc.
Ironically, i agree with him, and can see his point of view (if i use my 
imagination). His conclusion is to strongly advise the public not to use all 
these ‘Free fonts’ (apart frorm the one’s he has designed, of course). I 
disagree on his conclusion. Mainly because i think ‘free fonts’ are a sign of 
very real and non-reversible technological and social changes that the web has 
brought. Also, i think there are positive sides to the loosening and broadening 
(i would not say ‘lowering’) of type design 'standards’. 

-vernon


On 5 Nov 2013, at 19:43, Alexandre Prokoudine  
wrote:

>> He runs a well known type design agency. He’s a loud critic of Free fonts.
> 
> Just to feed my curiosity... How does one design free fonts and then
> criticize free fonts? Any URLs to share?

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:09 PM, vernon adams wrote:

>> HAHAHA! Who iz Bruno Maag?
>
> He runs a well known type design agency. He’s a loud critic of Free fonts.

Just to feed my curiosity... How does one design free fonts and then
criticize free fonts? Any URLs to share?

Alexandre

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[vernon adams]

On 5 Nov 2013, at 10:52, noo...@aol.com wrote:

> HAHAHA! Who iz Bruno Maag? 

He runs a well known type design agency. He’s a loud critic of Free fonts. But 
don’t get the wrong idea, i like him and admire the work he & his agency does. 
Just thought it would make a good specimen for JRUG_PUNK.

So nooalf, when are we going to see your fonts being used big time? They should 
be on billboards imo.

> 
> How do you get the font to show up without it being installed? 
> (I'm on a Chromebook rite now)

If you want to view the character set of a font using a Chromebook, you can add 
the .otf or .ttf file to your google drive @ https://drive.google.com/#my-drive
then you can double click the font file in your drive, and Google docs will 
preview the font characters for you.


> 
> The correct spelling for that iz KoKSUKR.

can’t believe i missed that

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[nooalf]

Thanks! The fonts are free for use by everybody, including commercial use. 



-Original Message-
From: vernon adams 
To: Open Font Library 
Sent: Sat, Nov 2, 2013 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting


i like “oRMR_MK3” a LOT :)


On 1 Nov 2013, at 17:59, Raphaël Bastide  wrote:

> Ok noo...@aol.com I just discovered your website and it’s amazing.
> What are the licences of your fonts ?
> 
> -- 
> Raphaël Bastide
> raphaelbastide.com
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> On 1 November 2013 18:24,   wrote:
> > Turnz out pretty good doing it this way
> 
> Sick
> 


 

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Vernon Adams]

My specimen references some famous Gilbert & George art pieces.
It’s good to see people making fonts like this. Type should be made from these 
sort of marks too. I see them as liberational, and equally as beautiful as the 
marks on the Trajan column.
Seriously.

-v


On 1 Nov 2013, at 18:28, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Please keep it polite, vern.
> 

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Dave Crossland]

Please keep it polite, vern.

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[vernon adams]

i like “oRMR_MK3” a LOT :)


On 1 Nov 2013, at 17:59, Raphaël Bastide  wrote:

> Ok noo...@aol.com I just discovered your website and it’s amazing.
> What are the licences of your fonts ?
> 
> -- 
> Raphaël Bastide
> raphaelbastide.com
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> On 1 November 2013 18:24,   wrote:
> > Turnz out pretty good doing it this way
> 
> Sick
> 

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Raphaël Bastide]

Ok noo...@aol.com I just discovered your website and it’s amazing.
What are the licences of your fonts  ?

-- 
Raphaël Bastide
raphaelbastide.com


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> On 1 November 2013 18:24,   wrote:
> > Turnz out pretty good doing it this way
>
> Sick
>

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Dave Crossland]

On 1 November 2013 18:24,   wrote:
> Turnz out pretty good doing it this way

Sick

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[nooalf]

Probably my lack uv experteze. 


Turnz out pretty good doing it this way. Just put 
http://www.nooalf.com/ANJL.html up and you can see its not just plain text. I 
typed it, then copied the layer and removed the color to make it stand out much 
better than plain text duz.



-Original Message-
From: Dave Crossland 
To: Open Font Library 
Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2013 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting


On 30 October 2013 17:35,   wrote:
> I coudnt get the webfont thing to work, so just went with gif and jpg piks
> uv the text. Kind uv a hassle, but it ensurez that everybody will see it
> correctly. If youre worried that the pik text iz not searchable, just put
> the text in a mouse over note or alt text for the imaj.

lolz

What wuz de problem?

 

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Dave Crossland]

On 30 October 2013 17:35,   wrote:
> I coudnt get the webfont thing to work, so just went with gif and jpg piks
> uv the text. Kind uv a hassle, but it ensurez that everybody will see it
> correctly. If youre worried that the pik text iz not searchable, just put
> the text in a mouse over note or alt text for the imaj.

lolz

What wuz de problem?

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[nooalf]

I coudnt get the webfont thing to work, so just went with gif and jpg piks uv 
the text. Kind uv a hassle, but it ensurez that everybody will see it 
correctly. If youre worried that the pik text iz not searchable, just put the 
text in a mouse over note or alt text for the imaj.



-Original Message-
From: Garrick van Buren 
To: Open Font Library 
Sent: Tue, Oct 29, 2013 7:50 pm
Subject: Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting


Quinn - what do you mean by "so I don't have to use @font-face"? 


Vernon - thanks for calling out the Fontue project. I stopped developing it for 
2 reasons:

- browser support stabilized to the point where TFF & EOT provide 
sufficient 
coverage

- my opinion that @font-face works best when the font files are local 
to the 
project - rather than on a hosted service. In my experience w/ running Kernest 
- 
there are very few scenarios where a hosted web font service is superior to 
self-hosted.

Here's the @font-face declaration I normally use:
@font-face { 
 font-family: 'Allan'; 
 font-style: normal; 
 font-weight: normal; 
 src: url('fonts/allan/Allan.eot?#') format('eot'), 
url('fonts/allan/Allan.ttf') 
format('truetype'); 
}



Is this helpful?

---
Garrick van Buren
http://garrickvanburen.com
612 325 9110
---



On Oct 28, 2013, at 11:49 PM, vernon adams wrote:

> Hi Quinn!
> 
> I keep wanting to find this out too. IMO it’s the missing key to a 
> typographic 
revolution :)
> 
> You might want to look at https://github.com/garrickvanburen/Fontue
> 
> It is a few years old now.
> 
> Have you searched on github for ‘font server’ and ‘webfont server’ ??
> 
> Brings up a few potentially interesting projects.
> 
> I would be very interested to hook up on anything you find and help however i 
can to get something up and running.
> 
> 
> 
> On 28 Oct 2013, at 21:19, Quinn Keaveney  wrote:
> 
>> Hello Dave,
>> I was wondering if you could help/point me towards how to set up a self 
hosting service so that I don't have to use @font-face. Has google fonts looked 
into this? Do you know how to do this? I can't seem to find any tutorials.
>> 
>> - ℚ
>> 
>> mail. qke...@gmail.com
>> tel. 312.623.3017
>> web. quinnkeaveney.com
>> b[log]. l3tt3r.com
>> twitter. quinn_chirps
> 


 

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Dave Crossland]

On 29 October 2013 17:58, Garrick van Buren  wrote:
> treating one kind of web-delivered asset differently than others introduces
> an unnecessary level of complexity



Serving fonts isn't as simple as your CSS though; its useful to have a
web font serve that parses the UA string and does eg serves fonts with
hint stripped for systems that don't use TT hint instructions, or CFF
for systems where that renders better.

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[vernon adams]

Sure, i think we are nearly already there. When i say ‘webfont server’ i just 
mean anything (e.g. just a bit of php) that allows a user in one part of the 
word to create a webpage that pulls a font from another part of the world, 
without the need for too much css coding. I don’t see any reason why the 
activity of ‘serving’ fonts should be centred just with ‘professionals’, every 
rented web space could have it’s own fontserver running, just like every 
webspace nowadays has it own sql server etc running.

-v


On 29 Oct 2013, at 14:58, Garrick van Buren  wrote:

> Vernon, 
> 
> I think we're already there. Modern web servers do a great job of serving 
> font files just as they do a great job of serving image files, javascript 
> files, html files, and css files. From my perspective, treating one kind of 
> web-delivered asset differently than others introduces an unnecessary level 
> of complexity across the entire design/development/deployment process. This 
> is why I see libre fonts as the only opportunity for sustained growth and 
> innovation for typography. Everything else restricts in too many unintended 
> ways. 
> 
> ---
> Garrick van Buren
> http://garrickvanburen.com
> 612 325 9110
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 29, 2013, at 4:25 PM, vernon adams wrote:
> 
>> I think you are right.
>> Imo the web would be much more robust and fertile if type was even more 
>> ‘democratised’ and ‘autonomous’. The big web companies would be much better 
>> served by a few big font servers amid swarms of small font servers. 
>> Repeating myself, i know, :) but if webfont servers could be as commonplace 
>> and as easy to use as all those zillions of Wordpress installations across 
>> the web… it would be awesome.
>> 
>> -v
>> 
>> 
>> On 29 Oct 2013, at 12:23, Garrick van Buren  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Oct 29, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:
 
 This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
 you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sure, that's the argument for linking to any of Google-hosted resources 
>>> (jQuery, etc). 
>>> 
>>> Personally, I feel this approach make the web more fragile, masks the 
>>> approachability of HTML/CSS, and introduces privacy concerns. 
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Garrick van Buren]

Vernon, 

I think we're already there. Modern web servers do a great job of serving font 
files just as they do a great job of serving image files, javascript files, 
html files, and css files. From my perspective, treating one kind of 
web-delivered asset differently than others introduces an unnecessary level of 
complexity across the entire design/development/deployment process. This is why 
I see libre fonts as the only opportunity for sustained growth and innovation 
for typography. Everything else restricts in too many unintended ways. 

---
Garrick van Buren
http://garrickvanburen.com
612 325 9110
---





On Oct 29, 2013, at 4:25 PM, vernon adams wrote:

> I think you are right.
> Imo the web would be much more robust and fertile if type was even more 
> ‘democratised’ and ‘autonomous’. The big web companies would be much better 
> served by a few big font servers amid swarms of small font servers. Repeating 
> myself, i know, :) but if webfont servers could be as commonplace and as easy 
> to use as all those zillions of Wordpress installations across the web… it 
> would be awesome.
> 
> -v
> 
> 
> On 29 Oct 2013, at 12:23, Garrick van Buren  wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:
>>> 
>>> This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
>>> you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.
>> 
>> 
>> Sure, that's the argument for linking to any of Google-hosted resources 
>> (jQuery, etc). 
>> 
>> Personally, I feel this approach make the web more fragile, masks the 
>> approachability of HTML/CSS, and introduces privacy concerns. 
>> 
> 

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[vernon adams]

I think you are right.
Imo the web would be much more robust and fertile if type was even more 
‘democratised’ and ‘autonomous’. The big web companies would be much better 
served by a few big font servers amid swarms of small font servers. Repeating 
myself, i know, :) but if webfont servers could be as commonplace and as easy 
to use as all those zillions of Wordpress installations across the web… it 
would be awesome.

-v


On 29 Oct 2013, at 12:23, Garrick van Buren  wrote:

> On Oct 29, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:
>> 
>> This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
>> you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.
> 
> 
> Sure, that's the argument for linking to any of Google-hosted resources 
> (jQuery, etc). 
> 
> Personally, I feel this approach make the web more fragile, masks the 
> approachability of HTML/CSS, and introduces privacy concerns. 
> 

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Garrick van Buren]

On Oct 29, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:
> 
> This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
> you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.


Sure, that's the argument for linking to any of Google-hosted resources 
(jQuery, etc). 

Personally, I feel this approach make the web more fragile, masks the 
approachability of HTML/CSS, and introduces privacy concerns. 


---
Garrick van Buren
http://garrickvanburen.com
612 325 9110
---

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[vernon adams]

I think we could assume that someone self hosting a handfull of fonts isn’t 
likely to be pushing to billions of font calls, per font, every week.

Though it would be interesting to run an experiment and see what figures are 
possible :)



On 29 Oct 2013, at 11:19, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> On 29 October 2013 14:11, Garrick van Buren  wrote:
>> Yes, cache headers can eliminate this issue for subsequent loads - assuming
>> your site is someplace people will visit repeatedly within the cache
>> lifetime.
> 
> This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
> you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Dave Crossland]

On 29 October 2013 14:11, Garrick van Buren  wrote:
> Yes, cache headers can eliminate this issue for subsequent loads - assuming
> your site is someplace people will visit repeatedly within the cache
> lifetime.

This is why Google Fonts is better than self hosting. Its likely
you've already cached the most popular Google Fonts.

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Garrick van Buren]

Something to note: From a performance perspective, most lag is caused by 
setting up the HTTP connection. Essentially, anything other than 
Apache/Nginx/etc serving a static file (just like js/jpg/png/etc) on the same 
files system as the webpage itself will degrade delivery performance. Yes, 
cache headers can eliminate this issue for subsequent loads - assuming your 
site is someplace people will visit repeatedly within the cache lifetime. 

---
Garrick van Buren
http://garrickvanburen.com
612 325 9110
---



On Oct 29, 2013, at 12:59 PM, vernon adams wrote:

> I’m not sure Quinn is after what you think he is :)
> 
> Quinn… do you mean you want to serve fonts like the example i am serving from 
> http://newtypography.net/testing/ ?
> 
> A.k.a you want your fonts to be served to remote web pages by simply adding a 
> 'link href’ line to the head of the source html document and then using the 
> ‘font-family’ to set text ? You (or anyone else using your webfont) would not 
> have to write those lines and lines of  @font-face rules in css documents?
> A.k.a users can’t simply browse the css source and see that ‘myfont.ttf’ is 
> residing at ‘http://myweb.com/fonts/myfont.ttf'
> Of course, even if you use a ‘server’, people can still download the fonts, 
> e.g. by using Chrome's ‘Developer Tools -> Elements’ and grabbing the woff 
> files of any fonts embedded in the page.
> 
> -v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 29 Oct 2013, at 10:39, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> 
>> On 29 October 2013 13:05, Quinn Keaveney  wrote:
>>> By saying I don't want to use @ff I just mean that I want to use an @ff that
>>> obfuscates the link/src file so you can not just click and download the
>>> woff.
>> 
>> This is impossible.
> 

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[vernon adams]

I’m not sure Quinn is after what you think he is :)

Quinn… do you mean you want to serve fonts like the example i am serving from 
http://newtypography.net/testing/ ?

A.k.a you want your fonts to be served to remote web pages by simply adding a 
'link href’ line to the head of the source html document and then using the 
‘font-family’ to set text ? You (or anyone else using your webfont) would not 
have to write those lines and lines of  @font-face rules in css documents?
A.k.a users can’t simply browse the css source and see that ‘myfont.ttf’ is 
residing at ‘http://myweb.com/fonts/myfont.ttf'
Of course, even if you use a ‘server’, people can still download the fonts, 
e.g. by using Chrome's ‘Developer Tools -> Elements’ and grabbing the woff 
files of any fonts embedded in the page.

-v




On 29 Oct 2013, at 10:39, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> On 29 October 2013 13:05, Quinn Keaveney  wrote:
>> By saying I don't want to use @ff I just mean that I want to use an @ff that
>> obfuscates the link/src file so you can not just click and download the
>> woff.
> 
> This is impossible.

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Quinn!

On 29 October 2013 13:05, Quinn Keaveney  wrote:
> By saying I don't want to use @ff I just mean that I want to use an @ff that
> obfuscates the link/src file so you can not just click and download the
> woff.

This is impossible. You may find http://craphound.com/msftdrm.txt
helpful in explaining why.

Cheers
Dave

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Garrick van Buren]

Quinn - what do you mean by "so I don't have to use @font-face"? 


Vernon - thanks for calling out the Fontue project. I stopped developing it for 
2 reasons:

- browser support stabilized to the point where TFF & EOT provide 
sufficient coverage

- my opinion that @font-face works best when the font files are local 
to the project - rather than on a hosted service. In my experience w/ running 
Kernest - there are very few scenarios where a hosted web font service is 
superior to self-hosted.

Here's the @font-face declaration I normally use:
@font-face { 
 font-family: 'Allan'; 
 font-style: normal; 
 font-weight: normal; 
 src: url('fonts/allan/Allan.eot?#') format('eot'), 
url('fonts/allan/Allan.ttf') format('truetype'); 
}



Is this helpful?

---
Garrick van Buren
http://garrickvanburen.com
612 325 9110
---



On Oct 28, 2013, at 11:49 PM, vernon adams wrote:

> Hi Quinn!
> 
> I keep wanting to find this out too. IMO it’s the missing key to a 
> typographic revolution :)
> 
> You might want to look at https://github.com/garrickvanburen/Fontue
> 
> It is a few years old now.
> 
> Have you searched on github for ‘font server’ and ‘webfont server’ ??
> 
> Brings up a few potentially interesting projects.
> 
> I would be very interested to hook up on anything you find and help however i 
> can to get something up and running.
> 
> 
> 
> On 28 Oct 2013, at 21:19, Quinn Keaveney  wrote:
> 
>> Hello Dave,
>> I was wondering if you could help/point me towards how to set up a self 
>> hosting service so that I don't have to use @font-face. Has google fonts 
>> looked into this? Do you know how to do this? I can't seem to find any 
>> tutorials.
>> 
>> - ℚ
>> 
>> mail. qke...@gmail.com
>> tel. 312.623.3017
>> web. quinnkeaveney.com
>> b[log]. l3tt3r.com
>> twitter. quinn_chirps
> 

Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Setting up self hosting

[Vernon Adams]

Hi Quinn!

I keep wanting to find this out too. IMO it’s the missing key to a typographic 
revolution :)

You might want to look at https://github.com/garrickvanburen/Fontue

It is a few years old now.

Have you searched on github for ‘font server’ and ‘webfont server’ ??

Brings up a few potentially interesting projects.

I would be very interested to hook up on anything you find and help however i 
can to get something up and running.



On 28 Oct 2013, at 21:19, Quinn Keaveney  wrote:

> Hello Dave,
> I was wondering if you could help/point me towards how to set up a self 
> hosting service so that I don't have to use @font-face. Has google fonts 
> looked into this? Do you know how to do this? I can't seem to find any 
> tutorials.
> 
> - ℚ
> 
> mail. qke...@gmail.com
> tel. 312.623.3017
> web. quinnkeaveney.com
> b[log]. l3tt3r.com
> twitter. quinn_chirps