Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things
Looks like this may be the first related failure: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3657 On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:23 PM, d...@metaverseink.com wrote: Everyone -- Just a warning to please stay away from head, starting in r9562, for the next couple of days unless you really really really want to help test things. We started replacing the services to the new service model that was discussed here a few weeks ago, staring with the asset service. For starters, there are new configuration variables in OpenSim.ini that you need to get acquainted with -- see the OpenSim.ini.example at the bottom. But unless you really need to be in head, don't; please wait at least 24 hours. Melanie -- The transplant is mostly done. See commit message for the things that are borked. Also note, I changed the config var you had called Modules to ServiceConnectors, you probably need to change your local .ini. Talk to you tomorrow. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things
Diva, good work, thank you. Modules is meant to be more generic, It is supposed to be a section holding all module selections eventually. I would appreciate being asked about this, and I'd like it changed back. Melanie d...@metaverseink.com wrote: Everyone -- Just a warning to please stay away from head, starting in r9562, for the next couple of days unless you really really really want to help test things. We started replacing the services to the new service model that was discussed here a few weeks ago, staring with the asset service. For starters, there are new configuration variables in OpenSim.ini that you need to get acquainted with -- see the OpenSim.ini.example at the bottom. But unless you really need to be in head, don't; please wait at least 24 hours. Melanie -- The transplant is mostly done. See commit message for the things that are borked. Also note, I changed the config var you had called Modules to ServiceConnectors, you probably need to change your local .ini. Talk to you tomorrow. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things
Diva, Melanie; kudos on you both - what I see of the new arch pleases my eye immensely. ;-) That said, would you feel comfortable merging all the OpenSim.Servers.X.Handlers projects into one OpenSim.Servers.Handlers project? As it stands now, with a Server, a Service and a Handler Project per backend function, there will be lots of small projects in the solution. On a side note, shouldn't the Region server move into the Servers as well? Just a thought. Best regards, Stefan Andersson Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:37:27 +0200 From: mela...@t-data.com To: d...@metaverseink.com; opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things Diva, good work, thank you. Modules is meant to be more generic, It is supposed to be a section holding all module selections eventually. I would appreciate being asked about this, and I'd like it changed back. Melanie d...@metaverseink.com wrote: Everyone -- Just a warning to please stay away from head, starting in r9562, for the next couple of days unless you really really really want to help test things. We started replacing the services to the new service model that was discussed here a few weeks ago, staring with the asset service. For starters, there are new configuration variables in OpenSim.ini that you need to get acquainted with -- see the OpenSim.ini.example at the bottom. But unless you really need to be in head, don't; please wait at least 24 hours. Melanie -- The transplant is mostly done. See commit message for the things that are borked. Also note, I changed the config var you had called Modules to ServiceConnectors, you probably need to change your local .ini. Talk to you tomorrow. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things
Hello, I prefer to keep the handlers separate. If it weren't for your testing requirements, they would be part of the exe. As these implementations grow, things tend to bulk up. Eventually, we would wind up with a juggernaut of a DLL, like OpenSim.Framework, which is wasting memory and cycles to load and access. I am attempting to write these servers to not only be lean in source, abut also in object code. This means not loading methods not needed for a certain server. The User server has no need of the asset handlers, why should it load them? Waste of bytes, waste of cycles, not clean at all. Also, it makes breaking out one server into a subproject or a forge project that much harder, as stuff would need to be cut back out of the huge DLL. I believe this is the better way, and where does the number of small projects really matter? I believe I have heard either you or Justin say we should have more functionality borken up into individual DLLs, and that means more and smaller projects. Melanie Stefan Andersson wrote: Diva, Melanie; kudos on you both - what I see of the new arch pleases my eye immensely. ;-) That said, would you feel comfortable merging all the OpenSim.Servers.X.Handlers projects into one OpenSim.Servers.Handlers project? As it stands now, with a Server, a Service and a Handler Project per backend function, there will be lots of small projects in the solution. On a side note, shouldn't the Region server move into the Servers as well? Just a thought. Best regards, Stefan Andersson Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:37:27 +0200 From: mela...@t-data.com To: d...@metaverseink.com; opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things Diva, good work, thank you. Modules is meant to be more generic, It is supposed to be a section holding all module selections eventually. I would appreciate being asked about this, and I'd like it changed back. Melanie d...@metaverseink.com wrote: Everyone -- Just a warning to please stay away from head, starting in r9562, for the next couple of days unless you really really really want to help test things. We started replacing the services to the new service model that was discussed here a few weeks ago, staring with the asset service. For starters, there are new configuration variables in OpenSim.ini that you need to get acquainted with -- see the OpenSim.ini.example at the bottom. But unless you really need to be in head, don't; please wait at least 24 hours. Melanie -- The transplant is mostly done. See commit message for the things that are borked. Also note, I changed the config var you had called Modules to ServiceConnectors, you probably need to change your local .ini. Talk to you tomorrow. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] Ruth vs Gas Clouds: Bug or feature?
Arthur Valadares wrote: Hi everyone.. I've been looking into a bug where if you get a brand new avatar and create pants, shirt, shape and skin and wear all of them, you turn into a gas cloud. After lot's of research, it seems this is kind of expected behavior. Let me try to explain what I think is happening. After SL Viewer 1.20, Ruth no longer existed. If you took off all wearables, you would now become a cloud of gas. Apparently, the viewer thinks that if you use all those 4 wearables without changing anything, you have become Ruth, and so you should now be a cloud of gas. If you make the 4 wearables, but change ANY parameter, you no longer become a cloud of gas . The thing is on OpenSim you start as Ruth, and not as a cloud of gas! Which is kind of confusing that the viewer thinks you become Ruth when you're actually trying not to. excellent work finding this out, arthur! DrS/dirk -- dr dirk husemann virtual worlds research ibm zurich research lab SL: dr scofield drscofi...@xyzzyxyzzy.net http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/ RL: h...@zurich.ibm.com - +41 44 724 8573 - http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~hud/ ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things
This is just the region side stuff that is changing? Just wondering if anything will conflict with the generic grid server work in the branch. Alos on a side note, it would be good if we could tag a new stable release from before these changes. From what feedback I have seen, it seems that a revision somewhere around 9395 was about the most recent quite stable revision. If there is agreement on that or another revision then I'll tag/branch it as a 0.6.5RC. --- On Fri, 15/5/09, d...@metaverseink.com d...@metaverseink.com wrote: From: d...@metaverseink.com d...@metaverseink.com Subject: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de Date: Friday, 15 May, 2009, 6:23 AM Everyone -- Just a warning to please stay away from head, starting in r9562, for the next couple of days unless you really really really want to help test things. We started replacing the services to the new service model that was discussed here a few weeks ago, staring with the asset service. For starters, there are new configuration variables in OpenSim.ini that you need to get acquainted with -- see the OpenSim.ini.example at the bottom. But unless you really need to be in head, don't; please wait at least 24 hours. Melanie -- The transplant is mostly done. See commit message for the things that are borked. Also note, I changed the config var you had called Modules to ServiceConnectors, you probably need to change your local .ini. Talk to you tomorrow. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things
The old grid servers will be completely replaced. ANything thet is getting fixed there will be taken into the new servers, but there is really no point in architectural work on the old servers. Melanie MW wrote: This is just the region side stuff that is changing? Just wondering if anything will conflict with the generic grid server work in the branch. Alos on a side note, it would be good if we could tag a new stable release from before these changes. From what feedback I have seen, it seems that a revision somewhere around 9395 was about the most recent quite stable revision. If there is agreement on that or another revision then I'll tag/branch it as a 0.6.5RC. --- On Fri, 15/5/09, d...@metaverseink.com d...@metaverseink.com wrote: From: d...@metaverseink.com d...@metaverseink.com Subject: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de Date: Friday, 15 May, 2009, 6:23 AM Everyone -- Just a warning to please stay away from head, starting in r9562, for the next couple of days unless you really really really want to help test things. We started replacing the services to the new service model that was discussed here a few weeks ago, staring with the asset service. For starters, there are new configuration variables in OpenSim.ini that you need to get acquainted with -- see the OpenSim.ini.example at the bottom. But unless you really need to be in head, don't; please wait at least 24 hours. Melanie -- The transplant is mostly done. See commit message for the things that are borked. Also note, I changed the config var you had called Modules to ServiceConnectors, you probably need to change your local .ini. Talk to you tomorrow. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things
Well, I'm aiming to have a central section where all modules get activated, with a view to the loader doing that at some point based on the class name, rather than each module rolling it's own. For that, all modules that get loaded need to be in one section. Melanie Kyle Hamilton wrote: There are two optioins for this: a hierarchal configuration -- ServiceConnectors are Modules, but not all Modules are ServiceConnectors, thus putting ServiceConnectors as a subnode to Modules; and a completely separate configuration section. I personally think that ServiceConnectors should be broken out into a separate area of the config since they are so important (a properly-functioning server relies on the services that would be defined in the ServiceConnectors section, but doesn't necessarily depend on the modules that would be in the Modules section). -Kyle H On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Melanie mela...@t-data.com wrote: Diva, good work, thank you. Modules is meant to be more generic, It is supposed to be a section holding all module selections eventually. I would appreciate being asked about this, and I'd like it changed back. Melanie d...@metaverseink.com wrote: Everyone -- Just a warning to please stay away from head, starting in r9562, for the next couple of days unless you really really really want to help test things. We started replacing the services to the new service model that was discussed here a few weeks ago, staring with the asset service. For starters, there are new configuration variables in OpenSim.ini that you need to get acquainted with -- see the OpenSim.ini.example at the bottom. But unless you really need to be in head, don't; please wait at least 24 hours. Melanie -- The transplant is mostly done. See commit message for the things that are borked. Also note, I changed the config var you had called Modules to ServiceConnectors, you probably need to change your local .ini. Talk to you tomorrow. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things
So can we have some idea of what is being done for the new grid servers, all the talk I saw was about region side dlls /config setting etc. I was already in the middle of making a generic base for grid servers and modules. I don't care about the actual logic but I would like to see how we can use the same or similar module system. BTW when talking about the servers, I mean the user, grid and messaging servers. I haven't done anything on the asset or inventory side. --- On Fri, 15/5/09, Melanie mela...@t-data.com wrote: From: Melanie mela...@t-data.com Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de Date: Friday, 15 May, 2009, 1:57 PM The old grid servers will be completely replaced. ANything thet is getting fixed there will be taken into the new servers, but there is really no point in architectural work on the old servers. Melanie MW wrote: This is just the region side stuff that is changing? Just wondering if anything will conflict with the generic grid server work in the branch. Alos on a side note, it would be good if we could tag a new stable release from before these changes. From what feedback I have seen, it seems that a revision somewhere around 9395 was about the most recent quite stable revision. If there is agreement on that or another revision then I'll tag/branch it as a 0.6.5RC. --- On Fri, 15/5/09, d...@metaverseink.com d...@metaverseink.com wrote: From: d...@metaverseink.com d...@metaverseink.com Subject: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de Date: Friday, 15 May, 2009, 6:23 AM Everyone -- Just a warning to please stay away from head, starting in r9562, for the next couple of days unless you really really really want to help test things. We started replacing the services to the new service model that was discussed here a few weeks ago, staring with the asset service. For starters, there are new configuration variables in OpenSim.ini that you need to get acquainted with -- see the OpenSim.ini.example at the bottom. But unless you really need to be in head, don't; please wait at least 24 hours. Melanie -- The transplant is mostly done. See commit message for the things that are borked. Also note, I changed the config var you had called Modules to ServiceConnectors, you probably need to change your local .ini. Talk to you tomorrow. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things
The main concern I have is that the whole empty shell for servers and then loading services sounds exactly like myself and mikkopa having been doing in the GenericGridServerConcept branch. The way it works is that there is a single base server that loads plugins, the plugins can be any service. At the moment the plugins/services are the logic from the current user server and grid server. As we were taking it one step at a time and just getting the base architecture. So with the base server you could have it so it could load all the plugins and act as a combined user server and grid server (and any other services in the future) or have separate servers for each as we have now. It also uses ini (nini) to config the servers and plugins. But of course the work isn't finished, but everyone could have worked on it and improved it. The reason this was done in a branch is because its big changes and I wanted to get it into some working condition before it went into trunk. Also the fact that it hadn't been talked about in enough details to get a agreement on if it should go into trunk. Now I'm not saying that work in what we should have in trunk. I'm just saying there is that work going on, and anyone can get involved in it. And we should be working together to make it into what we want. But instead we have the situation where we have this new idea what sounds a lot like what has been done in the branch but rather all of us work together we have ended up we two concurrent work in progresses. I'm completely fine with going with a different architecture to the one in the branch, although it does sound very similar to melanie's idea anyway. But really we should talk about what is wrong with the current work that is going on in that branch. Not just ignore it and start on her own idea without proper input. We are a team and we have to work as a team. So my problem isn't with the architecture, far from it from what has been described, just the problem is the way its been done. Not enough details of the plan had been published and just ignoring other current work, what just doesn't help with the future of the project if everyone just goes off and does there own thing, even if thats duplication other current work. Anyway I think if nothing else this just goes to show there is no point in us doing anything in branches ever again. --- On Fri, 15/5/09, d...@metaverseink.com d...@metaverseink.com wrote: From: d...@metaverseink.com d...@metaverseink.com Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] WARNING: r9562 may break things To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de Date: Friday, 15 May, 2009, 4:55 PM Let me explain in my own words what this new architecture is all about. My original intention with this was purely to improve the software architecture, so that we and others can do a lot more variation very easily. (This was not just my intention, we all know that what we have right now is a pain in the neck, and that it has always been a goal to improve it) Melanie thinks that since we're at it, we might as well improve the protocols on the wire and move everything to HTTP/REST. While I agree that's where we should end up, I would do the transition in 2 steps: first step would be to put the new software architecture in place, the second would be to improve the protocols on the wire. And I would keep the old service connectors around. But I have no problems with changing both things at the same time and getting rid of the old service connectors... Anyway, let me explain. The new architecture that Melanie is putting in place is wonderful! The focus is now radically on *services*, servers being shells that load any combination of those services. Conceptually, a Service is tuple IService, ServiceImplementation, ServiceConnectorOut, ServiceConnectorIn Callers of a service know only of IService; that IService on the client side is mapped to a ServiceConnectorOut at initialization time according to the configurations. ServiceConnectorOut encapsulates all the code required to interact with a particular service implementation. So if anyone comes and decides to write a completely new protocol for a service, as long as that protocol can comply with IService this is as easy as that service implementer providing a different ServiceConnectorOut -- no changes on the client side whatsoever. The new architecture improves the server-side too. For starters, these new servers are configured in exactly the same way as the simulators, with a XXXService.ini. This is already a major improvement for making all our servers consistent -- simulators and UGAIMXX are servers of about the same kind. Second, combining services in server shells is now also very easy. For example, the new inventory server can easily be configured to also serve assets, or to interact with a remote asset server. This particular combination basically generates the mix in Cable Beach's AssetInventoryServer, but without having
[Opensim-dev] voice meetings
Another thing we could do to improve the state of comms would be to have voice meetings once in a while. I hate meetings as much as everyone else, but voice meetings tend to be much faster than email discussions back forth. Hey -- we could even use Freeswitch with a cool virtual world system I know called OpenSim! :-) I haven't tried installing it, but I can try to do it in one of the sims of the UCI Grid. These would be meetings for core only. As agenda for a possible first meeting to be held soon, I would propose - postmortem of the money issue process/action - pluginizing OpenSim servers - anything else anyone wants to bring up I know we're all in different time zones, so I'm not sure a synchronous meeting is feasible. Would 8am PST work for everyone? ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] voice meetings
Sorry, wrong email list again :-( oh well, not that important. Cristina Videira Lopes wrote: Another thing we could do to improve the state of comms would be to have voice meetings once in a while. I hate meetings as much as everyone else, but voice meetings tend to be much faster than email discussions back forth. Hey -- we could even use Freeswitch with a cool virtual world system I know called OpenSim! :-) I haven't tried installing it, but I can try to do it in one of the sims of the UCI Grid. These would be meetings for core only. As agenda for a possible first meeting to be held soon, I would propose - postmortem of the money issue process/action - pluginizing OpenSim servers - anything else anyone wants to bring up I know we're all in different time zones, so I'm not sure a synchronous meeting is feasible. Would 8am PST work for everyone? ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
