[opensource-dev] List migration next week

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

Heads up...

As part of our migration to cloud services, we've decided to move this 
list to a newer platform. Here are the steps in that process:


 * On Thursday April 16th, the mailman service that drives this list
   now will be shut down and all list traffic halted.
 * The list archive will be preserved through that date and made
   available as a static web site to preserve history (the URL will be
   announced as soon as it's available).
 * A new Google Group list with the same name will be established as
   soon as we can (hopefully during the following week), and all
   current list subscribers will be sent an invitation to that new list.
 * The new list will have its own archive: the URL for both the old and
   new archives will be included in the footer added to each message by
   the list.

If you have questions or concerns, reply to this thread.

--
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email: o...@lindenlab.com  | Scott Lawrence 


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer changes for Premium changes

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2020-03-19 11:58 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

However, a couple of things are confusing. Would you please care to explain
them:

- So far, on login, the only "account_level_benefits" parameters returned
   by the server are: "additional_listing_cost" and "num_free_listings",
   which are not even parsed for/used in your code !
   No parameter dealing with upload costs, creation group cost, attachments
   limit or picks limit, while your new code relies on them: is it normal
   (i.e. not yet implemented server-side) or is it a problem with my SL
   accounts (one premium and several normal/free accounts, all showing the
   same set of "account_level_benefits" parameters, and just different
   values) ?

Where are you logging in?  When I log in I get a great deal more than that.

- There is a "ViewerBenefits" capability requested by your new code, but
   that capability is never used... Is it normal, or is something missing
   there ?


That's there as a flag to inform the simulator that the viewer 
understands the new benefits mechanism. As far as I know we have not 
used it for anything, but it's there so that if we discover a 
backwards-compatibility problem serious enough we can modify messaging 
or make some other accomodation.


--
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email: o...@lindenlab.com  | Scott Lawrence 


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer changes for Premium changes

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

The DRTVWR-481 branch has been promoted to the default viewer and pulled 
to the master branch.


TPVs will save their users confusion and reduce support questions by 
getting as many users as possible onto viewers with this support by the 
time we change the Premium offerings. I don't have a target date for it 
I can share, but it's not that far off.



**

*As we mentioned at the last Third Party Viewer meeting, the upcoming 
changes to Premium levels will require some viewer updates to maintain 
full compatibility.*


*

Why are there changes?

The viewer currently has some messages and costs hard coded that will 
need to be sensitive to the account type of the user. Rather than just 
telling the viewer the users’ account level (which we will also do) 
and then putting code into the viewer to adjust based on that type, we 
have built a more general solution. A new key ('benefits') in the LLSD 
map returned by login identifies a map whose keys are "benefit tags" 
and whose values are what that benefit level is for the logged-in user.


For example, one of the benefit tags is "texture_upload_cost"; its 
value is the number of L$ required for this user to upload a texture. 
The viewer displays that cost in the upload dialog so that dialog must 
be modified to use the value returned in the tag rather than the L$10 
that is currently hard coded.


Where are the changes?

The changes are in the 'DRTVWR-481 
' branch in 
the viewer git repository. A viewer built from that branch will be 
available as a Release Candidate soon.


When can we release these changes?

We strongly encourage you to integrate these changes as soon as 
possible. You are free to begin incorporating the changes and 
releasing them any time (but please watch for updates to them).


The login servers should already be returning the benefits information 
(the values are the same as those currently in the viewer; they'll 
change when we make the new Premium Plus level available and introduce 
other changes to Premium).


The simulator support for benefits is still being finalized and 
deployed; they are just beginning to use the benefits information from 
login in the same way this new viewer branch does. In practice, both 
should arrive at the same numbers since the current benefits 
information from login matches the old hard coded values. If your 
testing shows any discrepancies, please report them via Jira as 
quickly as possible.


What will happen with unmodified viewers when the Premium changes go 
into effect?


Most Second Life usage should be fine without the updates, but there 
may be subtle problems. For example, an unmodified viewer may have the 
wrong cost for some action; if the viewer expects the cost to be lower 
than the simulator does, the simulator will reject the request.


*



--
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email: o...@lindenlab.com  | Scott Lawrence 


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer changes for Premium changes

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2020-02-27 12:37 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

2.- Had you*simply*  (this is really trivial, since this is how the
 viewers and login server already work !) respected the normal
 protocol, not sending any "account_level_benefits" related info
 to the viewers not requesting that option on login, there would
 not have been*any*  problem !

 NOTE THAT IT IS NOT TOO LATE: you could*still*  modify the login
 server code to comply with the list of the requested options and
 stop sending the "account_level_benefits" stuff when not requested.
 This would*instantly*  restore the compatibility with the old
 viewers, and all you would have to change in the new viewer code
 is to add:
requested_options.append("account_level_benefits");
 in LLLoginInstance::constructAuthParams()


That protocol works (and from time to time we employ it) when the change 
is one that can be compatible, but that's not the case here. The account 
levels are not an optional thing, and there never was any way we could 
maintain backward compatibility on the server for viewers that don't get it.


The fact that some incomplete XMLRPC implementations not based on ours 
failed when they shouldn't have isn't something we could have 
anticipated or done anything about.


--
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email: o...@lindenlab.com  | Scott Lawrence 


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer changes for Premium changes

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2020-02-27 11:26 , Nathaniel Prugh wrote:


Can you show me the links to announcement of new premium. Features 
like the plus?


We have not yet announced the specific changes, just that some are 
coming including the new Premium Plus level.  Those should be coming 
pretty soon, but a search at https://community.secondlife.com/blogs will 
find many references.


--
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email: o...@lindenlab.com  | Scott Lawrence 


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer changes for Premium changes

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2020-02-25 16:10 , Nathaniel Prugh wrote:
Where is announcement of those features in sl blog? So we know what 
new stuff coming soon etc?


We don't normally use the blogs for communicating code changes; that's 
what this list is for.


The fact that we're making changes to Premium and introducing a new 
Premium Plus upgrade has been extensively discussed on the blogs for months.


--
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email: o...@lindenlab.com  | Scott Lawrence 


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer changes for Premium changes

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2020-02-27 08:21 , Cinder Roxley wrote:
On February 25, 2020 at 2:17:16 PM, Henri Beauchamp (sl...@hotmail.com 
<mailto:sl...@hotmail.com>) wrote:

On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 10:48:03 -0500, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:

> Why are there changes?
>
> The viewer currently has some messages and costs hard coded

They are _*NOT*_ hard-coded. The cost is modified after login on
receiving the EconomyData message (the process_economy_data() callback
is implemented in indra/newview/llviewermessage.cpp).
By the way, that's how OpenSIM grid can (and always could) deal with
different costs than in SL.


Agreed on this point. When I implemented some of these same features 
in an OpenSim grid, it was by extending the EconomyData message 
combined with simulator cap.


The EconomyData message doesn't have all the dimensions that we needed 
to modify. In the new design, login supplies both the viewer and the 
simulators with the benefits data for each agent at login time (yes, 
this means that if you were to upgrade your account while you were 
logged in, the change would not take effect for any in-world purpose 
until your next login). This design allows us to have just one place 
where the benefits are established and everything gets the information 
from there either directly or indirectly.


Won’t go into implementation issues with the way it was done because 
it’s already been done, outside of mentioning the rampant 
singletons-calling-singletons-calling-singletons pattern is 
problematic. :)


I don't see how singleton usage is related to the benefits changes, and 
don't understand what problem you're describing, but I suggest that any 
followup for that be on a thread of its own.



Sadly, you used an LLSD sub-array into the LLSD map, and "old" viewers
(i.e. all viewers not based on LL's v3 viewer code for the XML RPC part)
do not know what to do with such an array (they can only deal with simple
key/value pairs, not with key/arrays); this was the case of my viewer
(but I thankfully and by pure "luck" noticed the issue a few weeks before
LL did stealthily modify the login server on the main grid, because the
beta grid already had the changes which caused me to fail to login in it
at that time, and I could diagnose and fix the issue).


Lost a day out of my weekend diagnosing and resolving this in 
LibreMetaverse/Radegast-ng. It really is a death blow to the 
unmaintained OMV library. Heads up before this kind of deployment 
would be very appreciated.


The definition of LLSD and our open source implementations of it have 
always included the possibility of arbitrary nesting in arrays and maps 
(and we use it extensively internally without problems). We're not able 
to constrain our designs to maintain compatibility with incomplete 
implementations we may not even know about, much less ones that are 
unmaintained.



> Where are the changes?

>
> The changes are in the 'DRTVWR-481
> <https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer/branch/DRTVWR-481>' branch in
> the viewer git repository. A viewer built from that branch will be
> available as a Release Candidate soon.

It would have been nice to give a sufficient forewarning to avoid 
breaking

the login process on the main grid for many viewers (or viewer versions):
Radegast, my viewer (all versions before v1.26.24.2 are unable to login
in SL any more), OMV, etc, etc, etc.


Seconded. Always appreciated when API changes are documented on the 
wiki as well.


I admit that I expected that an entry in a map that you didn't expect 
wouldn't be a problem; I assumed that it would be ignored (as it is in 
ours) and that it would be more useful to give you changes when there 
was something you could test against. I suggest that in the future your 
implementations be guided byPostel's Law. 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle>


That having been said, we'll try to provide more advance warning for 
future changes when possible. Note that the further in advance the 
notice comes, the less specific and actionable it can be.


--
OZ LINDEN | VP Second Life Engineering
email: o...@lindenlab.com <mailto:o...@lindenlab.com> | Scott Lawrence 
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottdlawrence/>

LINDEN LAB | Create Virtual Experiences <https://www.lindenlab.com>
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[opensource-dev] Viewer changes for Premium changes

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

**

*As we mentioned at the last Third Party Viewer meeting, the upcoming 
changes to Premium levels will require some viewer updates to maintain 
full compatibility.*


*

Why are there changes?

The viewer currently has some messages and costs hard coded that will 
need to be sensitive to the account type of the user. Rather than just 
telling the viewer the users’ account level (which we will also do) and 
then putting code into the viewer to adjust based on that type, we have 
built a more general solution. A new key ('benefits') in the LLSD map 
returned by login identifies a map whose keys are "benefit tags" and 
whose values are what that benefit level is for the logged-in user.


For example, one of the benefit tags is "texture_upload_cost"; its value 
is the number of L$ required for this user to upload a texture. The 
viewer displays that cost in the upload dialog so that dialog must be 
modified to use the value returned in the tag rather than the L$10 that 
is currently hard coded.


Where are the changes?

The changes are in the 'DRTVWR-481 
' branch in 
the viewer git repository. A viewer built from that branch will be 
available as a Release Candidate soon.


When can we release these changes?

We strongly encourage you to integrate these changes as soon as 
possible. You are free to begin incorporating the changes and releasing 
them any time (but please watch for updates to them).


The login servers should already be returning the benefits information 
(the values are the same as those currently in the viewer; they'll 
change when we make the new Premium Plus level available and introduce 
other changes to Premium).


The simulator support for benefits is still being finalized and 
deployed; they are just beginning to use the benefits information from 
login in the same way this new viewer branch does. In practice, both 
should arrive at the same numbers since the current benefits information 
from login matches the old hard coded values. If your testing shows any 
discrepancies, please report them via Jira as quickly as possible.


What will happen with unmodified viewers when the Premium changes go 
into effect?


Most Second Life usage should be fine without the updates, but there may 
be subtle problems. For example, an unmodified viewer may have the wrong 
cost for some action; if the viewer expects the cost to be lower than 
the simulator does, the simulator will reject the request.


*
--
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email: o...@lindenlab.com  | Scott Lawrence 


LINDEN LAB | Create Virtual Experiences 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Mercurial to Git migration

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

Our build process uses a common set of build options so that when we 
build third party libraries they match the options used to build the 
viewer itself. In mercurial, this was in the repository


    lindenlab/viewer-build-variables

We've now moved that to the git repository

    lindenlab/build-variables on the 'viewer' branch

to get a local copy that matches the old repository:

    git clone g...@bitbucket.org:lindenlab/build-variables.git 
viewer-build-variables

    cd viewer-build-variables
    git co viewer

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Re: [opensource-dev] Mercurial to Git migration

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2019-12-16 09:47 , Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:

On 2019-12-13 11:34 , Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:


I've posted a document on how to follow our conversion from hg to git:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BEvUxaGnTQ54JNd6B7TZQE_Z0JccaoTYmJGNaXsnq_o/edit?usp=sharing

I'll try to get the wiki updated to our new processes over the next 
few weeks.


To be clear ... our plan is that the 6.3.5-release pushed last week 
will be the last one in Mercurial; all future viewer releases will be 
in git only.


The various in-progress projects are being converted, and you should 
begin seeing them either as branches in the viewer-dev repository or 
as new forks of that repository over the next month or so.


Yesterdays promotion was our first viewer default viewer built from git! 
The other in-progress viewers will all need to have been converted (most 
already have been) before they can update.


One process change - we've decided that the distinction between 
lindenlab/viewer and lindenlab/viewer-dev was not useful enough to be 
worth the trouble, so all in-progress branches are moving to 
lindenlab/viewer and the -dev repo will be locked and eventually 
deleted. So you only have one repo to watch...


--
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email: o...@lindenlab.com <mailto:o...@lindenlab.com> | Scott Lawrence 
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottdlawrence/>

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Re: [opensource-dev] Mercurial to Git migration

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2019-12-13 11:34 , Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:


I've posted a document on how to follow our conversion from hg to git:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BEvUxaGnTQ54JNd6B7TZQE_Z0JccaoTYmJGNaXsnq_o/edit?usp=sharing

I'll try to get the wiki updated to our new processes over the next 
few weeks.


To be clear ... our plan is that the 6.3.5-release pushed last week will 
be the last one in Mercurial; all future viewer releases will be in git 
only.


The various in-progress projects are being converted, and you should 
begin seeing them either as branches in the viewer-dev repository or as 
new forks of that repository over the next month or so.


--
OZ LINDEN | VP Second Life Engineering
email: o...@lindenlab.com <mailto:o...@lindenlab.com> | Scott Lawrence 
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottdlawrence/>

LINDEN LAB | Create Virtual Experiences <https://www.lindenlab.com>
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[opensource-dev] Mercurial to Git migration

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

I've posted a document on how to follow our conversion from hg to git:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BEvUxaGnTQ54JNd6B7TZQE_Z0JccaoTYmJGNaXsnq_o/edit?usp=sharing

I'll try to get the wiki updated to our new processes over the next few 
weeks.


--
OZ LINDEN | VP Second Life Engineering
email: o...@lindenlab.com  | Scott Lawrence 


LINDEN LAB | Create Virtual Experiences 
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Re: [opensource-dev] "upcoming removal of SLShare"...

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2019-11-18 10:04 , Lance Corrimal wrote:

So that would affect twitter, flickr, and what else?


Facebook

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Re: [opensource-dev] "upcoming removal of SLShare"...

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2019-11-15 04:11 , Lance Corrimal wrote:

Hi guys,

I just saw this phrase somewhere... "upcoming removal of SLShare"

What exactly is going on?


The services we were providing interfaces to via SLShare have not 
maintained stable interfaces; each of them has repeatedly changed the 
interface in an incompatible way (sometimes with very little notice). 
None has been used very heavily by the user base as a whole, and because 
of the interface instability we have decided that they are not worth the 
high maintenance cost so we're removing those features from the viewer 
code and shutting down the backend service.


--
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email: o...@lindenlab.com  | Scott Lawrence 


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Re: [opensource-dev] Python and autobuild

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2019-10-13 17:02 , Alex wrote:

Is there any work underway to make autobuild compatible with Python 3?


Yes... it'll be public shortly

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Re: [opensource-dev] Mercurial and BitBucket

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

I got asked...


Regarding: 
https://bitbucket.org/blog/sunsetting-mercurial-support-in-bitbucket


What are the Lab’s plans? Clearly, how the TPVs handle this needs to 
depend on your own plans – particularly whether that’s staying with 
Mercurial hosted some other way or changing to Git (or something else).


We will transition to git within bitbucket, preserving full history and 
as much as possible the ability to work in both during the transition.


Fortunately, this is not urgent; details TBD.

Unfortunately, I won't be at the TPV meeting this week (family 
obligations); this transition will not be a topic for this weeks meeting.


When we have a plan in place, which will take some time, we'll put it on 
the agenda.


--
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email: o...@lindenlab.com  | Scott Lawrence 


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[opensource-dev] Discontinuing the viewer-development-commits list

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

As part of cleaning up little-used infrastructure, I am discontinuing 
the posts for commits to viewer-release on the 
viewer-development-commits list.  If you would like notices, you can 
create your own personal notices by 'watching' the repository using 
bitbucket.


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Re: [opensource-dev] SL server issues in the past 4 months

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2019-04-08 09:27 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

In the hope my observations will help you guys to get things back on
track (because it's getting really badly needed).


Thank you Henri.

We are very much aware of these problems and trying hard to correct 
them, but I believe you may have added some useful insights; I've 
forwarded your message to the two teams I have attacking them.


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[opensource-dev] CEF update for Chrome vulnerability

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

If your viewer incorporates CEF, you should merge from 
https://bitbucket.org/callum_linden/viewer-release-cve-2019-5786


This has the fix for the recently announced Chromium vulnerability 
CVE-2019-5786 



There are no viewer code changes other than a new import for the package 
with CEF.


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Re: [opensource-dev] HTTP asset fetching will soon be mandatory

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

Sorry ... this ended up in my Junk folder somehow...

On 2018-10-19 09:52 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

I don't see AT_TEXTURE listed: does it mean that we will still be able
to fetch textures via UDP sim messages ?
No, we plan to remove texture fetching via UDP at the same time (the 
person that drafted that note didn't realize we hadn't done that already 
and I didn't catch it).

My viewer has long been updated to make use of the newest HTTP fetching
capabilities, but it also implements an automatic fallback to UDP fetches
when HTTP ones fail (i.e. a texture failing to be served via HTTP is
automatically re-requested using UDP).
Better to requeue the request to HTTP after a suitable backoff (unless 
of course you get a error that indicates that a retry would not work).

Also, will AIS be made mandatory or will the non-AIS HTTP inventory
operations still be available ?  The reason for this question is that
AIS is still suffering failures from time to time, and the only solution
in that case is to disable it (or restart the sim)...
The effort to disable the UDP inventory operations is separate; we don't 
plan to make those changes until somewhat later. We'll post an 
announcement a few months out for that, but if there are UDP inventory 
operations you're using now that can be done through AIS, then you 
should be making those changes.


--
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email or hangouts: o...@lindenlab.com  | Real 
Life: Scott Lawrence

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[opensource-dev] HTTP asset fetching will soon be mandatory

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

**

*For several years now, we have had the ability to fetch textures 
directly via HTTP. This has several advantages. It reduces load on the 
simulator, which no longer needs to act as an intermediary, and allows 
textures to be fetched reliably and efficiently using a CDN; this mean 
that data is more likely to come from a nearby machine, giving better 
performance for our residents. Last year, we added the ability to fetch 
several other types of in-world assets the same way, and have had very 
good results with the change. Although the Linden Lab official Second 
Life viewer no longer uses the old non-HTTP method of fetching assets, 
the simulator code has still been present, allowing other viewers to 
continue using the old method of fetching assets by way of the simulator.*


*

In the interests of continuing to improve performance and user 
experience, we will be removing the old non-HTTP fetching methods from 
our simulators in early 2019. This means that any viewers that are still 
fetching the affected asset types via UDP will no longer work correctly 
after that time.



The affected asset types are:

 *

   AT_LANDMARK

 *

   AT_CLOTHING

 *

   AT_BODYPART

 *

   AT_GESTURE

 *

   AT_ANIMATION

 *

   AT_SOUND


The planned date of the changeover is January 6, 2019. Please make sure 
any viewers you are working on have updated their asset fetching methods 
by then. If you have any questions about this process, please contact Oz.


*

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Re: [opensource-dev] llbase

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2018-04-10 16:51 , Nicky Perian wrote:

package llbase has no installation information configured for platform linux64

What is the correction for this?


llbase is pure python, so you should be able to copy from any other 
platform.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Linux viewer manage

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2018-03-26 13:23 , Nicky Perian wrote:

http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com/ct2/3428/8686/viewer_manager-1.0-linux-503417.tar.bz2

Please public this. Just need to get past configure.

I know it will likely never be used. I want to keep as many files 
matching as possible.


That's dozens of changesets out of date.

I'll see what I can do about building a current one and make the result 
public.


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Re: [opensource-dev] CDN

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2018-03-23 15:51 , Nicky Perian wrote:

What is the procedure for determining which CDN node is use for viewer 
instance. Then, how do you determine which assets are present on that CDN and 
not present in the viewer?
You just use the url base as supplied by the asset capabilities. There 
is DNS magic that routes you to the nearest/best CDN node.


I don't understand the second question you look in your cache and if 
you don't find it, you ask for it.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Linux

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2018-01-23 07:05 , Nicky Perian wrote:

Which version of Debian does LL plan to use? Stretch is at stable.


I had been planning on Jessie, but this took longer than I hoped, so 
yeah we'll go for Stretch.


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[opensource-dev] new autobuild 1.1

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

We've done a couple of minor fixes to autobuild 1.1 recently. You can 
update to version 1.1.7 with 'pip'.


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[opensource-dev] 64bit builds ... new autobuild

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

If you're doing builds based on our lindenlab/viewer64, you'll want to
update your copy of autobuild to version 1.1.4 (or later, if there is
one when you get to this).

That new autobuild constructs the default revision number in a way that
fits in a 32bit integer, which at least for the time being is what we
need don't ask


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Re: [opensource-dev] Mac viewer and Apple maintained opensource libraries

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2017-02-01 15:24 , Geir Nøklebye wrote:

When will be see the crash in the occlusion code being fixed due to the fact 
that GL_ARB_occlusion_query2 is not available in the OpenGL Legacy Profile the 
renderer currently is forced to when the viewer is running on macOS 10.11 or 
higher?

If you've got a fix, we'd love to see it.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Linux

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2017-01-30 12:41 , Nicky D. wrote:

For the time being, we expect that it will be based on the current system,
modified to use system libraries rather than autobuild packages that build a
static executable (some packages will be used in our builds for proprietary
components).  I'm not sure that answers your question...


This is the old Squeeze based Debian?

No, we're going to leapfrog to Jessie for this.


Granted, *.deb is a much used package manager for debian and derived
distros. Will any other distro package managers be developed? I assume the
answer is no so, will OS developer submissions of other package manager
formats be accepted?

Let's worry about getting one to work... if we're wildly successful with
that and there's a good reason to do something else, we'll discuss it.

I'm not sure yet what to make out of this change, as we possible need
to see a deb to see
about some of the consequences. Just a few thoughts:

- Standalone is afaik broken since a long time, for example there is
missing FindXXX.cmake
files for various packages.

- As far as I know are there no system packages for (at least) glod,
colladadom, breakpad and cef.

- Some distributions only ship openjpeg2, not 1.4 or 1.5 (for example
I cannot find anything older than 2
for Debian Wheezy). Possibly this can be worked around with non
standard deb repositories in apt.conf.

- Compiling the deb eg on Squeeze and trying to install it on
something Wheezy based could lead to
interesting results, due to the dependent packages from the Squeeze
system being recorded in the deb.
(Or compiling on Wheezy and installing on Jessie and so on).

- VLC: Henri pointed out a few times, that the VLC api is not exactly
stable between releases.

- Boost will be interesting


Well, if it was easy it wouldn't be any fun, would it?

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Re: [opensource-dev] Linux

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2017-01-29 20:39 , Nicky Perian wrote:

Questions:

Will LL use a build system that can be updated as opposed to the 
current out of date system? Hopefully, the build system will be a 
standard off the shelf that everyone can install and without any mix 
and match specials.
For the time being, we expect that it will be based on the current 
system, modified to use system libraries rather than autobuild packages 
that build a static executable (some packages will be used in our builds 
for proprietary components).  I'm not sure that answers your question...



Will there be LL developed QA procedures for the linux builds?
We'll use the same QA we've always used for Linux (not as much as we do 
for other platforms)


Granted, *.deb is a much used package manager for debian and derived 
distros. Will any other distro package managers be developed? I assume 
the answer is no so, will OS developer submissions of other package 
manager formats be accepted?
Let's worry about getting one to work... if we're wildly successful with 
that and there's a good reason to do something else, we'll discuss it.


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Re: [opensource-dev] windows build issues

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2017-01-04 16:27 , Nicky D. wrote:


I noticed you use:
autobuild ... -- *"*...*"*

Does it make a difference if you do not use " after -- and at the end 
of the line? I never tried to quote everything after the --, but can 
see how this could cause issues.

It probably will.

One of the changes we made to autobuild in 1.1 is that it used to run 
subcommands by concatenating all the arguments into one string and then 
pass that to a shell. That's not as secure or robust as just invoking 
the command directly, so we changed it so that there's no shell used now.


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Re: [opensource-dev] 64 bit viewers build instructions

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2016-12-22 09:58 , Nat Goodspeed wrote:


In general, we have tried to isolate build artifacts under the 
build-whatever directory, in this case build-vc120-32 or 
build-vc120-64. That includes the libraries installed by autobuild: 
there should be separate build-vc120-32/packages and 
build-vc120-64/packages subdirectories. That separation should (!) 
also include CMake byproducts -- though if indeed there's some 
unintentional crossover, I would suspect CMake stuff.
Be alert for anything that's starting searches relative to the 
CMAKE_SOURC_DIR/..



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Re: [opensource-dev] 64 bit lib archives

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2016-10-26 18:17 , Nicky Perian wrote:

Starting to dabble a bit with p64_3p-zlib.
At autobuild build --address-size 32
getting:
../build-cmd.sh: line 44: AUTOBUILD_WIN_CMAKE_GEN: unbound variable


Any idea what I am doing wrong?


We do plan to document this on the wiki soon - we've been waiting until 
we've successfully built the viewer in the new structure (we're close!).


As part of the 64 bit project, we've been revamping a bunch of the build 
infrastructure to make it easier to build large numbers of related 
projects with common options. The key to this is that we've added a new 
argument to the autobuild source_environment subcommand:


   usage: autobuild source_environment [-h] [-V] [-n] [-q] [-v] [-d]
[-p PLATFORM] [-A {32,64}]
[varsfile] [BUILDTYPE]

   prints out the shell environment for Autobuild-based buildscripts to
   use (by
   calling 'eval' i.e. eval "$(autobuild source_environment)").

   positional arguments:
  varsfile  Local sh script in which to find essential
   environment
variable settings (default from
$AUTOBUILD_VARIABLES_FILE), e.g. a checkout of
   https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-build-
variables/src/tip/variables
  BUILDTYPE Release, RelWithDebInfo or Debug [no
   default]: if
specified, requests shortened names for
   LL_BUILD
environment variables specific to this
   BUILDTYPE

   optional arguments:
  -h, --helpshow this help message and exit
  -V, --version show program's version number and exit
  -n, --dry-run run tool in dry run mode if available
  -q, --quiet   minimal output
  -v, --verbose verbose output
  -d, --debug   debug output
  -p PLATFORM, --platform PLATFORM
may only be the current platform or
   "common" (useful
for source packages)
  -A {32,64}, --address-size {32,64}
specify address size (modifies platform)

To use this, check out a copy of the viewer-build-variables repository:

   https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-build-variables

and set the environment variable AUTOBUILD_VARIABLES_FILE to point to 
viewer-build-variables/variables.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Darwin build failure

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2016-11-17 05:41 , Nicky Perian wrote:


I saw this issue a few years ago and it was a not having llbase.py 
installed.


I can't recall the solution, but it was simple.



pip install llbase

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Re: [opensource-dev] Firewall block of media files

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2016-05-19 09:49 , Ricky wrote:
The issue there, I suspect, is that the files are served with the 
wrong MIME type
Close ... they are sent with a Content-Disposition header that specifies 
that they be saved as a file.


Some applications may ignore or override this. It used to be true, for 
example, that IE would use a URL suffix rather than the MIME type. I 
don't think we should do that; we should do whatever CEF does unmodified.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Quicktime

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2016-04-20 14:53 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

>This is only true for old codebases. The modern viewer using Chromium
>Embedded Framework no longer requires Quicktime. Quicktime was only used to
>decode media streams. But the viewers now do this with the CEF codec.

Nope !... Media URLs pointing to *.mp3/4g *.avi *.wav *.you_name_it_media_type
*still*  use the QuickTime (for Mac and Windows) or gstreamer (for Linux)
plugin...

There is confusion in many people mind's about media streams embedded
inside a web page (which indeed are played via CEF now, provided the
web page is using HTML5 or a proper CEF plugin exists for the embedded
media stream) and raw media file URLs: the latter are*not*  played via
CEF. Just look at the code in llviewermedia.cpp...

You're correct for all released viewers, Henri, but we are in the 
process of building and testing to see what works with no quicktime 
plugin at all.


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[opensource-dev] Moving my weekly meeting... and no meeting next week

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

My Open Development weekly meeting 
<https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Development_User_Group> is moving 
from Monday to Wednesday (same time).


It will not be held next week because I'll be at our semi-annual 
internal planning conference talking about all the cool stuff we want to 
do for SL, so the next meeting will be Feb 17.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Mac OS X Metal support

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-10-24 05:14 , Laurent Bechir wrote:

Hello

Do you have some plan concerning the support of Metal in the viewer ?

Not at this time.

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[opensource-dev] Moving to Xcode 7

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

 We at the Lab are moving our viewer development to Xcode 7.  We have 
converted two of the existing viewer development projects successfully 
and will be converting the rest over the next week or two.


To convert to Xcode 7:

1. Use the App Store to upgrade your Xcode
2. Merge https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-xcode-7 into your project



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[opensource-dev] IMPORTANT: hg.secondlife.com deprecated

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

Bitbucket is discontinuing their custom domain feature as of 1 July, so

   *hg.secondlife.com will have to be replaced with
   bitbucket.org/lindenlab*

anywhere you're using it by that date. That translation already works 
(and has for years).


I think this is generally a good thing, since it will make https work 
better.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Mac viewer-tools-update build environment setup procedures

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-02-11 19:33 , Nicky Perian wrote:
I've not seen specific procedures to set the build environment for 
Mac. May be that I just missed it along the way.


Is there a build environment wiki for Mac?


Updated instructions are up:

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_(Mac_OS_X_XCode_6.1)


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-02-27 20:24 , Nicky Perian wrote:

Will we have to keep the old tools active to rebuild the plugin binaries
and then piece together archives to use in the new tools?
If so, that is unsatisfactory.
3p-update-slplugins needs to standalone and be able to produce
an archive without having to rely on the outdated tools.


That's not the plan.  Eventually, we'll be able to build all of whatever 
we ship with the new tools; it's just that porting the old plugins to 
the new tools was a lot of work so we decided to do this as a temporary 
measure and start work on the replacement that much sooner.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Mac viewer-tools-update build environment setup procedures

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-02-11 19:33 , Nicky Perian wrote:
I've not seen specific procedures to set the build environment for 
Mac. May be that I just missed it along the way.


Is there a build environment wiki for Mac?


We'll do an update to that page soon, but for now, as Cinder said you 
need to upgrade to the current Xcode (6.1) and install the new autobuild.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-02-07 21:08 , Jonathan Welch wrote:

Also, I am curious: is all this pip and easy install business doing
more than just fetching autobuild.exe?


It depends on whether or not your system already has all the 
prerequisites that autobuild needs (which have changed).  The point of 
using pip is that it fetches and installs them if you need them (and 
easy_install is needed to bootstrap pip).


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-02-07 14:24 , Cinder Roxley wrote:

The change would be transparent for the user other than saving them a 
small amount of space on their hard drive. I have no idea what the 
final size of lscript is when compiled, but it’s basically all dead 
and broken code and has been for several years.




If that's true, by all means let's kill it.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Jonathan's attempt to rearrange the graphics preferences

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-02-07 02:37 , holydoughnuts wrote:
Is there any plan in the works to send RenderAutoMuteRenderWeightLimit 
back to the server, and make stats available to users somehow thru the 
viewer or LSL? That would take a lot of guesswork out of when to stop 
adding junk to one's avatar.


Yes.

That's not quite how we plan to do it - instead, the viewer will just 
send back a boolean that indicates whether or not it is rendering each 
avatar it can see (but not the reason why if not). Some aggregate 
information derived from that (tbd) will then be made available to each 
avatar so that they can tell whether or not they are being rendered - 
ideally without being able to tell much about by whom.


Watch this space.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-02-06 16:12 , Cinder Roxley wrote:

It would simply things greatly to remove lscript from the viewer 
completely, thereby removing the dependency on flex/bison for 
building. lscript is unused other than a few const values. Several 
tpvs have dropped lscript from the build. (I’ve personally done that 
in two different tpv projects.)


Is this something Linden Lab would be willing to consider? I’d be 
happy to do the work to remove it if it is.




What would the end user effect be?

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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-02-05 08:39 , Jonathan Welch wrote:

A few more configuration notes/issues:

Autobuild is installed into Python27/scripts -- can this be moved out
of that package's tree?

No, that's where Python wants it.

Autobuild is being fetched from Oz's bitbucket repository -- this
should be moved to a generic lindenlab location.
In time, it will be, but not until we've completed the transition to 
using the new version everywhere.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-02-04 11:27 , Nicky Perian wrote:
Yes, I am being persistent and I will not let it drop til I get a 
definitive answer from Linden Lab.




Ok - if any of the following sounds harsh, it's not meant to be, and it 
should not be taken as critical of anyone - it's written this way so 
that it will be as clear and definitive as I can be:


 * Look at what we do in the 'Release' configuration.
   We want open source builds to be as close to that as we can possibly
   make them (because it maximizes the chances we can use contributions
   easily).
 * We do not care about and will not accept changes to support building
   with more than one version of Visual Studio.
   If a case can be made that there is a better choice than the
   Community Edition, feel free to make it but pending that case being
   made that's the choice.
 * How TPVs that are not following our build system evolution and have
   not been for some time are doing things is not of interest.

Is there any more clarity needed?

I and my team have been somewhat disconnected lately doing our 
not-really-sekrit planning sessions, but they're done (I'm writing this 
on the plane home); we'll try to get re-engaged on the issues of getting 
any required changes made. We appreciate your patience.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-02-02 10:42 , Nicky Perian wrote:


Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call 
MSBuild or Devenv?




Neither - as you can see in the autobuild.xml configuration, it runs 
'BuildConsole'.


I don't see any value at all in maintaining compatibility with Express 
given that the Community Edition is closer to the Pro version we use; if 
anyone disagrees, by all means make your case but because we used to do 
it that way isn't going to be a strong argument.


I'm pretty tied up in an internal planning conference this week 
(figuring out good things to do for Second Life in the coming several 
months), so please forgive me if my responses are even slower than usual.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-01-31 17:38 , Nicky Perian wrote:

Anyone know what causes this on a release build?
Doesn't stop the build and the installer is still made.
3-- Build started: Project: generate_viewer_version, 
Configuration: Release Win32 --

3  processing
3  'printf' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
3  operable program or batch file.
3C:\Program Files 
(x86)\MSBuild\Microsoft.Cpp\v4.0\V120\Microsoft.CppCommon.targets(170,5): 
error MSB6006: cmd.exe exited with code 9009.


Appears to come from newview/CMakeLists.txt
source_group(CMake Rules FILES ViewerInstall.cmake)

# the viewer_version.txt file created here is for passing to 
viewer_manifest and autobuild
# the summary.json file is created for the benefit of the TeamCity 
builds, where

# it is used to provide descriptive information to the build results page
add_custom_target(generate_viewer_version ALL
  COMMAND printf 
'${VIEWER_SHORT_VERSION}.${VIEWER_VERSION_REVISION}'  
${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/viewer_version.txt
  COMMAND printf 
'{Type:viewer,Version:${VIEWER_SHORT_VERSION}.${VIEWER_VERSION_REVISION}}' 
 ${CMAKE_BINARY_DIR}/summary.json
  COMMENT Generating viewer_version.txt for manifest 
processing

  )


That looks like cmake is trying to run commands in a windows shell 
rather than bash; the printf is a bash command.  This works in our build 
environment. It's possible that it could be replaced with cmake FILE 
commands?


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Re: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-02-02 13:05 , Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
I will say that your input would certainly have been considered had 
you been a part of the conversation at the time rather than posting a 
note on our private forum well after the fact.

s/our private forum/your private forum/


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-01-31 11:41 , Nicky Perian wrote:
Two  methods for command line building have been tested each starting 
with a fresh build-vc120 directory, with tests and package on.

Machine spec is Intel i7 all 8 cores running with 6GB memory.

autobuild configure -c ReleaseOSCE and autobuild build -c ReleaseOSCE
Calls Devenv.exe which is the build program for VS2013 Community Edition
Build completed in 53 minutes.

autobuild configure -c ReleaseOS and autobuild build -c ReleaseOS
Calls MSBuild.exe which is the build program available in VS2013 
Express Edition AND VS2013 Community Edition.

Build completes in 77 minutes.

Should we provide open source developers both methods?



I would prefer not to support more than one configuration for internal 
use and one for external use.



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Re: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-01-31 07:53 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

Greetings,

I know this should be posted in the JIRA, but apparently the comments in
the existing issue (SUN-38) are not read or not taken into account by
Lindens.

Please, to any and all Linden(s) involved in AHH, do read this post for
your own enlightement (and hopefully, a better and definitive solution
for the SL community as a whole):
http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5t=1494p=6890#p6890

Note that I'm beyond the point to care about whether this message will
be taken into account or not (so it's perfectly useless to enter a
sterile argument on this list about it). It's more like a bottled
message I throw into the sea...


I won't speculate on whether or not we would have decided to do it 
differently had your suggestion actually been made when we were starting 
work on this months ago; the factors affecting avatar height and avatar 
vertical offset are quite complicated and it may or may not have been 
the right thing to do. I will say that your input would certainly have 
been considered had you been a part of the conversation at the time 
rather than posting a note on our private forum well after the fact. 
Despite the fact that you refuse to contribute your code, I'm happy to 
make sure that your input is considered if and when you provide it in a 
timely way; I hope that in the future you'll chose to engage more 
productively.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-01-30 11:51 , Tank Master wrote:
You are getting an error because that isn't a valid command.  Use 
autobuild configure -c RelWithDebInfoOS OR autobuild configure -c 
ReleaseOS  Also, This will still fail do to tests.  I used: 
autobuild configure -c ReleaseOS -- -DPACKAGE:BOOL=OFF 
-DLL_TESTS:BOOL=OFF to turn off both packaging and tests.


The tests should work - they do for us, though I suppose some may depend 
on libs not in open source.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2014-12-23 18:17 , Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:


As some of you are certainly aware, the Linden viewer devs have been 
busy for the last several weeks updating our tools for building 
viewers. The tools changes include:


  * Windows building with Visual Studio 2013
  * Mac building on OSX 10.10 with Xcode 6.1
  * Linux building with gcc 4.6
  * All platforms using Autobuild 1.0
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Oz_Linden/Autobuild_Improvements

The canonical repository for this is 
https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-tools-update , and the various 
packages each have a lindenlab/3p-update-/name/ repository (those will 
be pulled to the 3p-/name/ repos when the viewer that uses them is 
promoted to viewer-release).


Just a quick update... we are now into the QA phase with this, and there 
is a Project Viewer available on the Alternate Viewers page 
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers#Second_Life_Project_ToolsUpdate_Channel 
(there is a known issue with the Windows installer that I believe 
affects anyone that does not have developer tools installed... a fix 
should be out very shortly).


We've also put up a new page of instructions on how to set up a Windows 
development environment 
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Visual_Studio_2013_Viewer_Builds.  
Suggestions for improvement are most welcome here and on the Talk 
page... we're trying to keep it as simple as possible while being 
sufficient to build a clean checkout of the viewer.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Jonathan's attempt to rearrange the graphics preferences

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2015-01-24 03:29 , Martin Fürholz wrote:
I would ask you please not to mix up two completely different topics 
and merge it into one, to promote Jonathans own preference about the 
graphics-floater


To be clear - Jonathan is implementing rearrangements of that floater 
specified by the UI designers at the Lab; he's made suggestions and 
refinements, but the design is ours. So, by all means share your 
perspectives, or even continue to vent and rage if you feel the need, 
but don't blame Jonathan.


In order to add controls for the presets that are at the core of this 
change, we needed to make room in the graphics panel, and that lead to 
the redesign.


It's also true that in the process we're reevaluating the usefulness of 
some of the settings, including hiding some we don't think are useful 
enough to justify inclusion and exposing others that we think are. Civil 
well reasoned commentary informing those judgements are most welcome 
(here, by preference). We have read and considered the feedback in the 
issue, and significant changes have been made as a result. It is not 
inconcievable that we'll make more changes as more people give this 
feature a try.


When discussing any change, please bear in mind that all UI decisions 
are to some extent a matter of taste and individual judgement. We have a 
style that we prefer, and it's actually not the end of the world if that 
isn't the style you prefer. I'm neither surprised nor distressed by the 
fact that some of you disagree with the choices we're making; indeed, I 
consider the chances of getting unanimous support for any UI change at 
all to be zero. We welcome your perspectives, and really do consider 
them. However, accept this friendly advice - in this, as in most 
discourse, hyperbolic language like nightmare, horrible, and even 
hate do not make your case more persuasive.


Fortunately, most of you objecting are quite capable of creating UI 
replacements of your own and won't have to suffer for too long with ours.


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[opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

As some of you are certainly aware, the Linden viewer devs have been 
busy for the last several weeks updating our tools for building viewers. 
The tools changes include:


 * Windows building with Visual Studio 2013
 * Mac building on OSX 10.10 with Xcode 6.1
 * Linux building with gcc 4.6
 * All platforms using Autobuild 1.0
   https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Oz_Linden/Autobuild_Improvements

The canonical repository for this is 
https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-tools-update , and the various 
packages each have a lindenlab/3p-update-/name/ repository (those will 
be pulled to the 3p-/name/ repos when the viewer that uses them is 
promoted to viewer-release).


We hope/expect to have the Mac and Windows versions moving through the 
usual viewer release pipeline in early January: the Mac builds and runs 
now, Windows is very close.


Note that Microsoft now provides for free use of VS2013 Pro for 
non-commercial use, so it should be possible to greatly reduce the 
differences between the configurations we use for the Linden viewers and 
those for open source devs (possibly even eliminating all the 
differences other than the use of proprietary packages); contributions 
to this end are solicited.


Which brings me to Linux... we could use your help with getting it up to 
the new framework and getting it working again. Most of the packages 
have been rebuilt (though some may need additional work). We don't plan 
to delay the release of the Windows or Mac in order to wait for Linux. 
It's not easy to justify our spending a lot of our developers time on 
Linux, though *I very much want to keep an actively maintained Linux 
viewer going.* Linux use of the official viewer is a microscopic and 
shrinking percentage of Second Life usage. I could really use some help 
from the open source community to make sure that the Linux viewer 
remains current. If you care about having a Linux version available, 
please help make it so. Today was my last official work day until 
January 5th - it would be fantastic New Years if there were a bunch of 
contributions waiting for me then (I'll be keeping an occasional eye on 
email through the holidays, but probably not actually doing any merging 
and building).


If you, like me, celebrate the turn of year in some way with those who 
are important to you, I hope it is restful, peaceful, refreshing, and 
full of love and good thoughts. See you next year.


PS. Initially, I'd like us to focus on getting the current functionality 
working. Contributions that are focused on getting us to the next 
bleeding edge gcc version (pick whichever you like) of some tool are 
interesting and welcome, as are offers to help with a 64 bit build - but 
I want to get the current attempt to build with gcc 4.6 and autobuild 
1.0 working /first/, so those contributions will wait until that much is 
done.



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[opensource-dev] Library Refresh viewer

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

As many of you have seen, Monty has recently updated the versions of 
several of the libraries we use in the viewer.  We've now published a 
Project viewer with those changes:


   
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers#Second_Life_Project_Refresh_Channel

Any testing you can do with that viewer would be a big help.

The viewer repository for that is:
https://bitbucket.org/monty_linden/viewer-library-refresh

And there are notes on the library changes, with pointers to the 
repositories at in 3rd Party Library Upgrade - Full Release Notes 
https://docs.google.com/a/lindenlab.com/document/d/1DgmgqP3qsloJ5wy1OK0Dorclz9SVHLj-67B7LzCKQts/edit?usp=sharing_eil.


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[opensource-dev] STANDALONE - USESYSTEMLIBS

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

The subject of how confusing the name of the STANDALONE switch is came 
up yet again at one of my meetings the other day, and I've just decided 
to kill this problem once and for all.


I've prepped a repo with it changed to USESYSTEMLIBS (and the 
corresponding C preprocessor symbol changed to LL_USESYSTEMLIBS):


https://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/open-199/commits/79fbe57a728a8e619d8d85b756061b50fb36152f

I'd appreciate it if anyone who normally builds using that set to ON (I 
never do) would check that it works as well as it did before.


Unless I hear strong objections soon, that will be in the next Snowstorm 
release candidate (no, I don't have a prediction when that will be).


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[opensource-dev] codereview.secondlife.com shut down

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

For some time now, I've been asking people to just use bitbucket.org 
repositories for code reviews.  That, in combination with jira, has been 
working reasonably well so I've decided to shut down the 
codereview.secondlife.com instance of 'reviewboard'.


The content has all been archived at 
http://lecs.opensource.secondlife.com/codereview.secondlife.com/r/index.html


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Re: [opensource-dev] Beta Server Release Notes

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2014-02-06, 14:13 , Harold Brown wrote:
The Beta Server Release notes (Magnum, BlueSteel and LeTigre) have not 
been updated since early in January.  And seeing as a new release was 
pushed it would be nice to see what those changes were.


http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta/BlueSteel
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta/LeTigre
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta/Magnum



See https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel

and its peers.  We don't call them Betas any more, they're Release 
Candidates.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Evil bug found that can cause inventory loss: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-201

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2014-01-25, 07:09 , Lance Corrimal wrote:

Hi guys,

I just found this one:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-201


Please don't use OPEN for bugs like that one... the OPEN project is for 
issues that have to with building the software, not for bugs in the 
software itself.



Can cause inventory loss, of sorts. With this bug, AutoAcceptNewInventory
actually turns into Automatically discard any notecards, landmarks or
textures offered by scripted objects. Breaks pretty much any landmark giver,
subscribomatic, and similar... For example vending machines that sell fullperm
textures. Or any vending machine that gives you a information notecard about
products when you click...

I'm trying to hunt it down but that's like trying to repair a pocket watch in
the dark where you find that about half of the cogwheels have no visible
connection to each other 0.o


If/when you've got a fix, the best thing to do is to note that fact in a 
comment for the regular review team and/or send me an email. As a rule 
that will result in it being moved to Snowstorm and we'll get the fix 
integrated that way.  (the exception to that rule is if we don't agree 
that it's a bug, but that doesn't apply in this case)



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Re: [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2013-10-07 12:34 , Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:


After some discussion with both Second Life and Desurium contributors, 
Linden Lab has produced a draft of a new Contributor License Agreement 
http://lecs.opensource.secondlife.com/draft-contribution-agreement-2013-10-04.pdf 
that we would like to use for both projects in the future.  This email 
is an invitation to contributors and potential contributors to discuss 
that draft here.


The final version of the new Contributor Agreement is available now at:

http://lecs.opensource.secondlife.com/Contribution+Agreement.pdf

If you signed the previous version, there's no need to execute this one 
(if you prefer this one, feel free to do so... the new one will then 
apply you all your contributions past and future).


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Re: [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2013-10-07 14:52 , Nicky Perian wrote:
The original CLA may have same items and I just did not catch that 
casual verbal / oral conversations unless prefaced with this is not a 
contribution  would be considered a contribution. For me, that puts a 
chill on discussing with any LL employee the technical feasibility of 
an idea that may or may not become a contribution.


I confess that I missed the reference to verbal.  It has been my 
practice to insist that we always get contributions in writing and 
normally in an archival location (jira, codereview, the mailing list).  
I've already added this to my list of issues to discuss with the lawyers 
before the next draft.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2013-10-07 18:50 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

The requested info (snail mail address and private phone number)
are simply excessive in relation for the purpose (identifying
an author: see below).


We don't believe that information is excessive for that purpose. You are 
of course free to disagree, as we are free to not enter into the 
agreement  without it.


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[opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

As most of you probably know, Linden Lab acquired Desura^(TM), a digital 
distribution service for PC gamers.


The code for the Desura client is open source, managed as the Desurium 
project on github https://github.com/desura/Desurium.  The Desurium 
project used a different open source licenses (GPLv3) than we use for 
the Second Life Viewer project, and had its own Contribution Agreement.


After some discussion with both Second Life and Desurium contributors, 
Linden Lab has produced a draft of a new Contributor License Agreement 
http://lecs.opensource.secondlife.com/draft-contribution-agreement-2013-10-04.pdf 
that we would like to use for both projects in the future.  This email 
is an invitation to contributors and potential contributors to discuss 
that draft here.


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[opensource-dev] Snowstorm project viewer

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

The next round of open source contributions is up in a Project viewer:

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers#Second_Life_Project_Snowstorm_Channel

including a nice Request Teleport feature from Jonathan Yap that can 
only be tested if both participants are on this viewer.



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Re: [opensource-dev] Leap Motion integration

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2013-08-04 05:52 , Elenia wrote:

Hello all

Since the Simon Linden's works 
https://bitbucket.org/simon_linden/viewer-rabbit (last commit in 
March) no news.


So I took the llleapmotioncontroller.cpp and I have integrated it at 
the last version of Snowstorm (3-6-2-28466), and I have made a package 
that I distribue to my friends for tests.


Finally I had appended a line
self.file_list.append([../../doc/Leap.dll, 
self.dst_path_of(Leap.dll)])

And put the Leap.dll in the doc directory!
It's not clean. Please what is the good way?


The good way would be to package the Leap.dll as an autobuild package, 
add it as a dependency in the cmake files and add it in 
viewer_manifest.py where the other dlls are loaded (look for 
libhunspell.dll for example).



I have enhanced the fly controls with the Leap Motion:

1) Append 2 debugs settings : LeapmotionFlySlowRadius and 
LeapmotionFlyFastRadius, to adjust the detection (hand more or less 
tense) at the morphology hand of each people.


2) Disabled stop flying when not detected hand. Before, fall 
guarantee. Now, close the fist stop flying.


3) Reduce timer to turn (rotate hand) to 75 ms at 30. Very most easy 
to turn.


Now I wish know if people are interested to test this experimental 
wiewer or work on the code, perhaps open a jira or a repository.





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[opensource-dev] Maintenance viewer promoted to 3.6.3-release

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

The sources from viewer-bear have been pulled to viewer-release and the 
3.6.3-release tag has been added.


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[opensource-dev] Vivox update promoted to 3.6.2-release

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

The Vivox update candidate has been promoted to the default 
3.6.2-release Second Life Release viewer.


The sources have been pushed to the canonical viewer-release repository.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer branches and their repositories

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2013-07-23 08:05 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 13:52:57 -0400, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:


On 2013-07-18 05:20 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

See
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Viewer_Source_Repositories

Ah, yes, thank you... What about putting a link to that page on the
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers
page ?...


The alternate viewers page is for people who want to download and run
viewers, not develop them, so I don't think it's appropriate.

I did add a link from the primary wiki page on getting viewer source:
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Get_source_and_compile

I also added a link in:
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_Integration_and_Release_Processes#Mercurial_Repositories



Good idea... thank you.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer branches and their repositories

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2013-07-18 05:20 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

See
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Viewer_Source_Repositories

Ah, yes, thank you... What about putting a link to that page on the
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers
page ?...

The alternate viewers page is for people who want to download and run 
viewers, not develop them, so I don't think it's appropriate.


I did add a link from the primary wiki page on getting viewer source: 
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Get_source_and_compile


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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer branches and their repositories

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2013-07-17 13:38 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

Greetings,

I'm a bit confused with LL's new release process: many beta and project
viewers are available for download as binaries on the Wiki (see:
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers )
but there is no corresponding repositories in the mercurial (see:
http://hg.secondlife.com/ ): in particular, I see no repository for
the Beta and Beta Maintenance (with the new particles code) channels.


See 
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Viewer_Source_Repositories



Also, some new features announced in the release notes of the RC channels
for the latest releases (for example, the new UpdateAgentAppearance
capability for SSB regions, appearaing in RC Magnum v13.07.15.278606
release notes) are not even yet available in the corresponding viewer
repository (for UpdateAgentAppearance, it should be in sunshine-external).

I am also noticing errors and contradictions between the available code
sources and the server release notes (e.g. RC Magnum v13.07.15.278606
release notes advertize Added IncrementCofVersion capability but this
capability is actually not enabled in the sims running this server
release, and when I asked Nyx last Monday, at the Content User Group
meeting, he replied this capability was abandonned: who is right ?...).



The Sunshine project isn't ready with their next round of viewer 
changes... they'll appear in those repos when they are closer to being 
integrated, and there will be test versions available for the viewer at 
around the same time.


--
*Scott Lawrence* | /Director of Open Development/
Skype ozlinden skype://ozlinden | Second Life Oz Linden 
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Re: [opensource-dev] code review in the new release process

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2013-05-22 22:59 , Nicky Perian asks:
Which repositories will be used to open code review? Will each project 
be available for code review?


An excellent pair of questions... I'll take them in reverse order.

*How will you know which repositories are active, and will they be 
reviewable?*


   Our intent is that sources for development projects will become
   publicly visible /approximately/ when both:

 * A public test viewer is made available (whether as a Project or
   Beta viewer)
 * The design, especially any server interactions, is believed to
   be reasonably stable
   (if the goal of releasing a viewer is to find out whether or not
   a particular design works, we don't want to put the sources out
   where someone might pull them because then important changes to
   the design may create compatibility problems; the materials
   project kept its sources private for some time for this reason).

   I say approximately because each project will make that decision
   independently; for some, making sources public may be a high
   priority (such as getting important bug fixes out where others can
   pick them up), while others may take longer.  This is a guideline
   for our teams, not a hard and fast promise, but we are very much
   aware that it's in our interest to get new features adopted by the
   open source community in a timely way, so we have ample motivation
   to make sources public.

   To that end, I will be maintaining a wiki page that will display all
   of our Viewer channels and the latest viewers in the channel.
   Channels that include candidate viewer cohorts (normally only the
   release channel) will display both the default viewer and the
   candidates.  For each viewer, there will be a link to the
   repository, the changeset id it was built from, and an indicator as
   to whether or not that repository is public.   I've already created
   the program to generate this page content, and will try to update
   the page promptly when changes are made.  The page will appear
   shortly after we begin using the new viewer version management
   system (the generation program relies on queries against that
   service).  Incidentally - this will be separate from the
   user-oriented official Alternate Viewers page, which will provide
   the download links for each publicly available viewer.

   Bitbucket provides a 'watch' feature you can use to be notified when
   changes are made to repository - you can use that to monitor both
   viewer-release and any other repository, so I won't be configuring
   email notices on any of the new repositories.

*Which brings us to code reviews...*

The ReviewBoard instance at codereview.secondlife.com has been valuable, 
I think, but it has some significant problems - specifically it:


 * Isn't integrated with Jira
 * Isn't integrated with Bitbucket
 * Requires fairly complex manipulation to post reviews of code in
   repositories not directly descended from one of the configured repos
   (see Posting Failure
   https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Code_Review_Tool#Posting_Failure
   in the wiki documentation)
   This goes directly to Nickys question, really, and I am not crazy
   about the idea of constantly having to configure each project
   repository... if only because it would get cluttered very quickly
 * Is rather a pain for me to keep up to date
   (updates require that I re-merge changes we need that for some
   reason the developers have never integrated my contributions for)...
   we're actually pretty far behind the most recent releases as a result.

Since I set up that review system, Bitbucket has significantly improved 
their display of differences in a commit and added some code review 
features (I like to think that my quite detailed feedback to them on 
this played some part in that).  If you display the page for a specific 
commit, there is a way to comment on both the commit as a whole (a box 
at the top) and on any specific line (click on the speech bubble to the 
left of the line).  The comments are then both mailed to the author of 
the commit and displayed on the page.  There's a way to reply to each, 
and there's an Approve button at the top that registers your approval of 
the commit.


Using Bitbucket for reviews would place a premium on arranging your 
changes as a single commit that does not have any embedded merges. As a 
former/sometime git user, I prefer to do that anyway.  It's a little 
less convenient in Mercurial, but it's not that hard.


On the whole, I think that using the Bitbucket review system would be 
much easier than the existing ReviewBoard; it seems to me that the only 
significant disadvantage is that it doesn't post review requests to this 
list, but putting together an email with a link doesn't seem to me to be 
too much to ask.


Opinions?  Experiments?

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Re: [opensource-dev] Is the Cocoa project still alive ?

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2013-05-11 13:15 , Laurent Bechir wrote:

Hello,

I haven't seen any new build of the Cocoa Project viewer since 02-28, and the 
last one freezes on startup on my Macbook Air with Mountain Lion 10.8.3.


Yes, it's just in temporary suspended animation - we'll thaw it out very 
soon.


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[opensource-dev] Terms Of Service change re: L$ exchange

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

Linden Lab has made a change to the Terms of Service - see the blog post at

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Updated-Second-Life-Terms-of-Service/ba-p/1996185

If you are a viewer developer, and your viewer includes use of a third 
party exchange for functions like 'buy L$,' it will need to be changed 
to use the LindeX instead.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Terms Of Service change re: L$ exchange

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2013-05-07 14:11 , Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
Linden Lab has made a change to the Terms of Service - see the blog 
post at


http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Updated-Second-Life-Terms-of-Service/ba-p/1996185

If you are a viewer developer, and your viewer includes use of a third 
party exchange for functions like 'buy L$,' it will need to be changed 
to use the LindeX instead.


Please don't send me questions about this policy change I almost 
certainly don't know the answers, and certainly could not respond in any 
event.


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Re: [opensource-dev] LSL commands/parameters for light projectors

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2013-01-30 07:22 , Tillie Ariantho wrote:
 Hello,


 my feature request BUG-1497 (see below) got closed (not applicable). Why 
 that? Do we have so submit working patches for features requests?

 I think my request is pretty valid.



 *LSL commands for light projectors*

 Implementation of additional LSL command parameters:

 I would add parameters for llSetLinkPrimitiveParams and 
 llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast:

 Flag: PRIM_CAST_LIGHT
 Description: Let the prim with activated point light cast shadows.
 Usage: [ PRIM_CAST_LIGHT, key projection_texture, integer fov, integer focus, 
 integer ambiance ]

 Texture, FOV, Focus and Ambiance are already properties of a prim, only they 
 cannot get accessed via scripts yet.



 Why can't we set those parameters via scripts?


(caveat... I didn't even see that issue, or have anything to do with 
closing it, so this is personal speculation...)

Whether or not light sources cast shadows is an independent user choice 
in the viewer, and we already have an option that allows projectors to 
cast shadows.


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[opensource-dev] Increased maximum animation length

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

A change coming in the 3.4.5 Beta that other viewers will probably want 
to adopt quickly


Increase maximum animation length from 30 seconds to 60 seconds 
https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-beta/commits/07e5202c7c954e14004f7f366e9b13093eea71f3


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Re: [opensource-dev] Upcoming server side avatar baking

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-12-17 03:43 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:
 On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:40:58 -0500, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:

 For any of you developing viewers that are not in the TPV Directory and
 so didn't get the notice there

 We have now made available the code for our upcoming server side baking
 changes - you will need to update to be compatible with this in order
 for users to see avatars correctly once the server side change is rolled
 out to the main grid (some time  8 weeks from now, but no date has been
 set yet).

 See
 https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Sunshine-Server_Side_Appearance
 for information on this new code, and watch it for updates.
 Alas, the said repository doesn't match any of viewer-release, viewer-beta
 or viewer-development code, making it impossible to get a clean diff of
 the actual, related, relevant changes.

 The diff I get against any of the three public branches of the viewer is
 over 2Mb big and contains changes to the UI, the path finding tools, the
 renderer (llrender and pipeline), the vfs, and many more cruft that seems
 (but it's hard to be 100% sure for everything without carefully studying
 the code) totally unrelated with the server side baking changes.

 Could you please provide a repository which is the copy of the one that
 was used to implement server side baking changes but that would be clean
 of those changes (this way, we could create a clean diff containing only
 the relevant changes, which would help immensely and prevent long trial
 and error sessions figuring out what is needed or not) ?

No, we can't, sorry.

That project has been in development for some months.  They have done 
very significant refactoring in order to better organize the code around 
avatar appearance, and have merged out from viewer-development a number 
of times.  The entire history is in the repository you can see, which is 
ultimately derived from an earlier version of viewer-development (you're 
just as capable of finding that fork point as anyone else is).  Yes, 
there are lots and lots of changes here.

 I also deeply regret that you took the hard-coded approach (making the
 baking code rely on a hard-coded inventory tree) and used the COF
 directory to pick up the texture IDs to use in the bake (this should
 have been provided as a list by the viewer, so that the inventory
 structure is only dependent on the UI of the said viewer and on how
 the users wish to arrange their own inventory). One of the flaws of
 your approach is that your baking system can't detect when a change
 is done to a wearable that is being worn (you admit it yourself in
 the Wiki page, indicating yet another capability will be needed to
 signal such a case)... A poor implementation choice, IMHO.

I'm sure that there were any number of fundamental design decisions that 
could have been made differently, but our purpose here is not to either 
revisit those debates or to explain why we made the choices we did.  The 
fundamental design decisions have been made, and we're going to proceed 
with the design we've got.

If you have questions about how the code works, and especially the new 
messages exchanged regarding avatar appearance, ask them here and we'll 
do what we can to help.
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[opensource-dev] Upcoming server side avatar baking

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

For any of you developing viewers that are not in the TPV Directory and 
so didn't get the notice there

We have now made available the code for our upcoming server side baking 
changes - you will need to update to be compatible with this in order 
for users to see avatars correctly once the server side change is rolled 
out to the main grid (some time  8 weeks from now, but no date has been 
set yet).

See 
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Sunshine-Server_Side_Appearance 
for information on this new code, and watch it for updates.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: Put the viewer version into marker files, and report errors only when the version matches

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-11-01 12:09 , Ricky wrote:
 Wouldn't it be better if the crash could be reported anyway - just 
 marking the correct version?  With this in place at least crashes 
 won't be misreported, but they also will be not reported to the 
 servers at all, causing statistical deviation - what I believe is the 
 core idea to be fixed.  More comments in the JIRA,

Unfortunately, because of the way the stats collection service works, 
that would be much more difficult.

My goal with this change is just to ensure that version A crashes are 
not counted as version B crashes, at the cost of possibly not counting 
all version A crashes.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Formal Animation Set Replacer

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-11-02 11:01 , Adeon Writer wrote:
 A few months back there seemed to be interest on this mailing list in a 
 formal way to have custom animation sets for avatars without LSL scripts 
 (Animation Overriders)

Yes, this did kick off some interesting and fruitful discussions 
internally, but we've been consumed with other higher priority things 
since.  The issue is not forgotten, just not something we've got time 
for at the moment.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Materials

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-11-09 15:54 , Dahlia Trimble wrote:
 Are the protocol changes documented anywhere? Who might be able to 
 provide any information about them?

Not until we've got both sides implemented and tested, no.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm dev build

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-10-30 10:48 , Hitomi Tiponi wrote:


As day 10 is approaching of the next dev viewer build being 'in 
progress' I am filled with anticipation at the goodies it must contain 
to take so long to build.  Or is it stuck again and no-one noticed?


No... we're focused on the problems in beta, so nothing new is happening 
in development.  There is a deep queue of goodies building up though


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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Source Thursday Meeting Time

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-10-25 16:25 , Nalates Urriah wrote:
 Is there any any formation on what time the Thursday meeting is moving to?

 Formerly 13:00 or 1PM PT and now 15:00 or 3 PM PT... which conflicts 
 with Oskar Linden's meeting: Server Beta on ADITI.

Yes... sorry for the confusion  conflicts.   I'm adjusting to new 
working hours.

As a next attempt... I'm going to move that meeting to Wednesdays at 3PM 
SLT.

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[opensource-dev] Fwd: Group management viewer update

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

Viewer developers who would like to test the upcoming changes for how 
large groups are fetched
(viewer changes are in 
https://bitbucket.org/baker_linden/viewer-development-baker) ... see 
below for where and how to test.


These changes are not generally available yet, so merging them to your 
main viewer release is probably not appropriate yet, but it's time to be 
checking them in test viewers.



 Original Message 
Subject:Group management viewer update
Date:   Thu, 25 Oct 2012 11:02:25 -0700
From:   Chris Baker ba...@lindenlab.com
To: Oz Linden o...@lindenlab.com



Hello TPV devs!

We are now running 4 regions with my group management code on Agni!
If you have merged in my viewer changes, now is a great time to make 
sure they work in your viewer!


Please read Oskar's forum post for information about testing in these 
regions:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Large-Groups-Fixes-LIVE-on-AGNI/td-p/1711341

Thank you so much for being patient with this release and big ups to 
Ansariel from the Firestorm team for catching a few potential bugs I missed.


--
- Baker



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Re: [opensource-dev] New HTTP Library Project Viewer

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-10-23 06:10 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:
 Unless the router is buggy, it shouldn't be impacted by the number of
 open sockets (at least not under 60K sockets)... Some protocols, such
 as torrent can use hundreds or even thousands of sockets at once.

Our experience is that _many_ consumer routers are buggy in exactly this 
way.

The fact that a torrent will try to open many connections doesn't mean 
that most of them work - it recovers so well from failed connections 
that one would normally not notice.  I suspect that the fact that SL is 
also sending lots of very bursty UDP traffic also aggravates the 
problem, since that traffic (and TCP connection setup/teardown) is not 
congestion controlled.

 The true limit is server side.

All the more reason for viewers not to hog connection resources.


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Re: [opensource-dev] New HTTP Library Project Viewer

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-10-23 14:05 , Dahlia Trimble wrote:
 Would this excerpt from RFC2616 (section 8.2) be relevent?  Perhaps 
 some routers and other infrastructure assume this as design criteria:
 
 Clients that use persistent connections SHOULD limit the number of
 simultaneous connections that they maintain to a given server. A
 single-user client SHOULD NOT maintain more than 2 connections with
 any server or proxy. A proxy SHOULD use up to 2*N connections to
 another server or proxy, where N is the number of simultaneously
 active users. These guidelines are intended to improve HTTP response
 times and avoid congestion. 

Very much so
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Re: [opensource-dev] New HTTP Library Project Viewer

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-10-20 11:14 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:
 Is there any server running the corresponding improved HTTP code on
 Aditi ?

Not yet.  When there is, we'll post a note on this list.

As Tankmaster said, our ambition at this point is that the server side 
will be compatible with all existing viewers HTTP usage.   The new 
version will have different enforcement of fairness heuristics to 
attempt to prevent viewers from monopolizing server side resources; it's 
possible that this will cause problems for viewers that have overly 
aggressive use of multiple connections - something we'll try to test 
heavily during the server beta period.

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Re: [opensource-dev] New time for Thursday Open Dev meeting

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-10-16 19:32 , Tank Master wrote:


 I think you mean 14:00, right? Yours was at 13:00, and the server 
beta UG is at 15:00 already.

~Tank


No, I meant what I said.  It's an experiment... we'll see how it goes.  
I can't avoid all possible conflicts.


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Re: [opensource-dev] feature suggestion: make doubleclick navigation more immersive

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-09-21 03:17 , Lance Corrimal wrote:
 Hi all!

 Here's a feature idea that I just had, and I thought I'd float it past here
 before I post a feature request on the jira.

 As a user I would like to see a third option for doubleclick navigation
 inworld: pathfinding - immersive

 With that option turned on, the viewer would determine if the point the user
 clicked on is within draw distance, and if so, use pathfinding navigate to
 to walk there. If the point was outside of drawdistance, the viewer would use
 whatever else the user had configured for normal doubleclick navigation (i.e.
 teleporting or go here).


We have considered whether or not to apply pathfinding movement to 
avatars, but so far have decided that it would too often produce 
non-intuitive results.   Avatars can go places that pathfinding 
creatures can't and the differences are not always obvious to users (for 
example, an avatar will step up over a level change that a pathfinding 
creature will not attempt).  This might often lead to users clicking on 
a point that seems easily accessible, but the avatar goes off in some 
entirely different direction (as the beginning of a circuitous path), or 
just fail to find a pathfinding route at all (this latter presents an 
additional problem of how to inform the user).

Personally. I've always wanted to be able to choose a series of 
waypoints manually... some games I've played let you do this by making 
'click' mean 'walk straight to here', and 'shift-click' mean 'add this 
as the next waypoint after the current end of my path'.


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[opensource-dev] accidental commits...

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

We had an accidental push to viewer-development (steps have been taken 
to avoid a repeat).

The correct tip as of when I'm writing this is 24758:63088c18a73c

Sorry about that...

For the conspiracy-minded, this had nothing whatever to do with todays 
Jira changes, and all those commits will be coming back when they've 
been properly tested.


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[opensource-dev] Congratulations to Firestorm

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On behalf of Linden Lab, I'd like to extend congratulations to the 
Firestorm Viewer team.

Last week, Firestorm took over the #1 spot on the list of Second Life 
viewers in terms of total user time, surpassing its elder cousin, 
Phoenix.  The Phoenix viewer still has a slight lead in number of 
sessions, but Firestorm viewer sessions are on average significantly 
longer - which may in turn be due in part to its substantially better 
stability.

The Firestorm team has worked long and hard to support users who want 
both the latest Second Life features being developed by Linden Lab and 
the additional capabilities you provide, and this achievement is one you 
can all be proud of.  Thank you.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Mercurial repository webpage layout

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-08-29 17:03 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:
 Greetings,

 The layout of LL's mercurial repository (http://hg.secondlife.com/)
 recently changed, and for the worst... The old layout allowed to see
 with a single glance what/when things last changed in each repository
 (the list on the right gave the last change's date), while now you
 must click on *each* repository link in the short list to open the
 commits page and see whether anything changed or not (the recent
 activity on the left not reflecting commits activity at all).

 Could this annoying layout be reverted back to the good old one,
 please ?...

Geenz is right... that's a bitbucket change that we don't control.

 Every minute lost browsing pages for nothing is not spend coding and
 is lost time...

Each repository has its own RSS feed - once you've set up the 
subscriptions, you can use any feed reader to efficiently track activity.
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Re: [opensource-dev] New HTTP Library Project Viewer

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-08-02 12:47 , Dahlia Trimble wrote:

 So, if pipelining is implemented and it works, what other bottlenecks 
 are there that make multiple connections work so well?


Pipelining is not, unfortunately, supported yet on the servers... we're 
working on that.  And despite Carlos assertions to the contrary your 
thoughts are appreciated, thank you.  You're logic is in all important 
respects correct.

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Re: [opensource-dev] ok this may sound dumb but what is the llphysicsextention package

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-08-07 16:09 , Angel Dreams wrote:
 its something i saw i never seen that package before is it new or 
 something?

It is the wrapper around the Havok functionality in the viewer.  It 
replaces (and incorporates) llconvexdecomposition.

For open source, there is a stub version.
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Re: [opensource-dev] HG-Repositories

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-08-07 15:18 , Boroondas Gupte wrote:
From recent changes 
https://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Viewer_Integration_and_Release_Processesdiff=1171369oldid=1168497 
on the wiki, I take that the role of the various official mercurial 
repositories has changed again. Which repository should contributions 
be based on, now? And which one is now the recommended base for third 
party viewers?


Contributions should be based on viewer-development.

Third party viewers are advised / requested to not include anything in 
their own general releases until it is at least in our Beta versions 
(and you'll probably save yourselves some duplicated effort pulling 
fixes if you do).


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Re: [opensource-dev] New HTTP Library Project Viewer

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

On 2012-07-29 04:07 , Henri Beauchamp wrote:

With just a few tweakings to the texture fetcher (and in particular
a setting that permits up to 32 concurrent HTTP fetches),


Caution... once we begin supporting persistent connections and pipelined 
requests on the server side (we're working on it), opening that many 
connections will very likely be considered abuse of the service.  
Allowing a single server to have that many potentially long-lived 
connections to the same server would starve the file descriptor pool 
very quickly at the server end, adversely affecting other users.


HTTP itself recommends that clients not maintain more than 2 connections 
to the same service [1].  I don't know exactly what limit we will decide 
is reasonable (I expect that 2 will be ok, but don't know whether or not 
some larger number will be also).


Please bear this in mind as you think about your designs.  I will keep 
you all informed as things develop.



[1] RFC 2616, section 8.1.4 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-8.1.4


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