orion-list Dating the Hebrew Bible
Dear Bruce, Please check out my Archaeology Menu on my website (click on the url in my signature) for my dating of each and every book in the Primary History (Genesis-2 Kings) via archaeological anomalies revealed by Biblical Archaeology. Archaeology has revealed that certain sites were either abandoned or had not yet come into existence yet within the time frames of the biblcal scenarios. This anomaly dates the texts to a period of time after these sites came into existance. Some sites did not come into existence until the 7th century BCE (like Aroer in the Negeb). Jericho never had an Iron Age wall, although Holy Writ claims its walls were rebuilt by Hiel the Bethelite in Ahab's days. This anomaly suggests a text written after everyone had forgotten Jericho never had such a wall, which suggests a text of either the late 6th or 5th centuries BCE. I would also suggest you navigate to the OT Menu and read my article titled The Pentateuch a Second Temple Creation ? (Unraveling the Japheth Mystery), where I argue that Noah's blessing for Japheth to co-rule Canaan with Shem is an allusion to co-rule by the Persians and Jews, making Genesis and the Pentateuch a Persian era creation. In the same article I explain how Athenian Greek myths about Medus, son of Medea of Colchis (former wife of Jason and the Argonauts) and a Greek king of Athens, is portrayed as the founder of Media. Thus accounting for Genesis' portrayal of Madai as being of a Japhethic descent (Japheth being the Greek Titan, Iapetos). Citing Datis, the Median general intrusted with the invasion of Greece (his alleged letter to the Athenians being preserved by Diodoros Siculus) I point out that the Persian court in Darius II's days was promulgating the Medus myth as an excuse to invade Greece and take back that patrimony claiming his ancestor, Medus had been wrongfully deprived it (ca. 499-40 BCE). If my suppositions are correct, then Genesis was written ca. 490 BCE or thereabout. As regards Ian's recent reply about the problems of dating texts via the study of word forms, he is right on target. There simply doesn't exist enough written material like is the case of Assyrian and Babylonian texts to establish a dating framework (said subject being discussed last year on the b-hebrew list). All the best,Walter Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld Walldorf by Heidelberg Baden-Wurttemburg, Germany http://bibleorigins.homestead.com/index.html - Original Message - From: Bruce Wildish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 1:43 AM Subject: orion-list re: dating the hebrew texts Perhaps this is not the bets place for this, but perhaps those who have expertise in Hebrew can give me their two cents worth on something. I am one of those who is sympathetic to the viewpoint of Phillip Davies and numerous others (e.g. Nodet, Lemche, Thompson) that the Hebrew Bible and the religious views it promotes are post-exilic, i.e. Persian or even hellensitic in some cases and is closer to thew world of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the intertestimental literature than to the social-religious environment of the pre-exilic world. I have seen the same sort of view expressedby some on this list (e.g. that the later chapters of Ezekiel that refer to the Zadokites might be this late, or that Nehemiah might be 2nd century). Though I can find many reasons to agree with this view the one big thorn for me in this lineof thinking is the continued insistence of many scholars that the Hebrew of the biblical texts excludes this possibility because it is demonstrably more ancient (i.e. pre-exilic or exilic at the latest). I have not been able to find much in way of critical commentary on this point and would appreciate the input of those on this list. Bruce Wildish Mississauga, Ontario For private reply, e-mail to Walter Mattfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: unsubscribe Orion. Archives are on the Orion Web site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il.
orion-list Dating the Hebrew Bible
all of this in perspective, it says in essence: It is quite normal to be confused and possess only partial knowledge. Fondly, Walter Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld Walldorf by Heidelberg Baden-Wurttemburg, Germany http://bibleorigins.homestead.com/index.html For private reply, e-mail to Walter Mattfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: unsubscribe Orion. Archives are on the Orion Web site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il.
Re: orion-list Dating the Pentateuch
Dear Dierk, The Daphnae being referred to is called Tahpanhes by Jeremiah (Jer 43:8). It was situated on the eastern border of Egypt and protected the eastern approaches to Egypt. In regards to your request for further bibliography on the Kittim with Greek names found on ostraca at Tell Arad- Baker notes- In the ostraca from the late 7th century BC found at Arad in the Judaean desert, mention is made of Kittim with Greek names (Aharoni 1968:11). This could point to the existence of Greek, if not Cypriot, soldiers in the service of the Israelite king, Josiah. (p.93, Vol. 4, David W. Baker, Kittim. David Noel Freedman, Editor. The Anchor Bible Dictionary. 6 Vols. New York. Doubleday. 1992) Bibliography (noted by Baker): Aharoni, Y. 1968. Arad: Its Inscriptions and Temple. Biblical Archaeologist 31:2-32. All the best, Walter Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld Walldorf by Heidelberg Baden-Wurttemburg, Germany http://bibleorigins.homestead.com/index.html - Original Message - From: Dierk van den Berg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:23 PM Subject: Re: orion-list Dating the Pentateuch SNIP Answer: I've indeed mismatched the Psamettichs, that's all. SNIP Answer: Correct, but not at 'Daphne near Antioch' at the Orontes, but at the strategic turn-off Paneion near 'Daphne near Antioch' in the Paneas. Cf. my post on Pliny's map orientation. SNIP 'Kittim' who bear Greek names. Hmmh. Do we know Kittim who don't bear Graeco-Roman names? On the Tal Arad find: I need the reference to check the reliability of the information. SNIP For private reply, e-mail to Walter Mattfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: unsubscribe Orion. Archives are on the Orion Web site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il.
orion-list Dating the Pentateuch
Viewers may have an interest in the below letter posted to another list regarding the ORIGINS OF ISRAELS EXODUS TRADITION- Dear George, Yes, I have studied John Croft's proposals and even given several critiques on them. Some of these critiques are in the Ancient Bible History discussion list's archives (to access these archives, click on my signature url, navigate to my Links Menu and the ABH link near the bottom of the Links Menu page). As you may recall, he posits that the Exodus is a garbled memory of the arrival of the Philistines, and that the Israelites are really Philistines ! Their defeat in Egypt and settlement in Philista has become the Hebrew Exodus according to his theory. My research suggests that the only Philistine connection in regards to the Exodus, is that when they did settle in Philista, some Canaanites fled to the Hill country, joining the brigand Habiru and thus these refugees preserved the story of their Hyksos ancestors being expelled from Egypt (ca. 1540 BCE) and conquered at Sharuhen (Tell Ajjul by Gaza ?). The notion of Hebrew slaves fleeing an Egyptian bondage doesn't come from Egypt and the Hyksos though, it comes from the Canaanite Habiru. In the course of the Late Bronze Age, Canaan was in bondage to Egypt and raided regularly for tribute and slaves. To escape the Egyptian bondage within their own country, some of the natives fled to the Hill Country and linked up with the Habiru. Contemporary documents, the Amarna Letters from Canaanite Princes serving Pharaoh speak of Slaves kiling their Canaanite princes, and then fleeing to become Habiru. I thus understand the Pentateuchal traditions of a Hebrew bondage, flight and conquest of Canaan to be a garbling of real historical events which have been combined, the Hyksos Exodus of 1540 BCE preserved by the refugees fleeing the Philstine invasion of their country and the Habiru traditions, all of whom who were Egypt's slaves in their own land. They fought Egypt and the Philistines for mastery of Canaan, TAKING BACK THEIR INHERITANCE. Sooo, that's my understanding of the true origins of the Exodus traditions (cf. my article titled The Exodus Traditions (Their Pre-Biblical Backgrounds), if interested, click on my url in my signature line and navigate to the OT Menu). All the best, Walter Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld Walldorf by Heidelberg Baden-Wurttemburg, Germany http://bibleorigins.homestead.com/index.html - Original Message - From: George Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:19 AM Subject: Re: Dating the Pentateuch SNIP Have you ever had the opportunity to explore the Philistine Theory of the source of Exodus supported by John Croft? It's really quite elegant. And over the past several months, I've become more and more interested in it. George For private reply, e-mail to Walter Mattfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: unsubscribe Orion. Archives are on the Orion Web site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il.
Re: orion-list Daniel
carefully and deliberately crafted than Daniel, and this suggests to me that Daniel was edited in a time when higher emotions were present, such as the time of the persecution of Antiochus and the resulting political and religious revolution. E-N was, in this way of looking at things, a refinement of nationalistic feelings in response to Hyrcanus I forcing the Syrians to accept him as a client king rather than as a mere governor. It seems to me that the Qumran literature identifies more with the reinvention of what it meant to be a Jew that occurred in the time of the Maccabees than with the later fine-tuning that crystallized after the establishment of the Jewish nation state. Hence the variety of Danielic and related traditions versus the relative lack of same when it comes to Ezra-Nehemiah-like materials. Respectfully, Dave Hindley Cleveland, Ohio, USA For private reply, e-mail to Walter Mattfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: unsubscribe Orion. Archives are on the Orion Web site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il. (PLEASE REMOVE THIS TRAILER BEFORE REPLYING TO THE MESSAGE)
Re: orion-list Re: orion V2002 #17
cannot rule out a form of pagan idolatry where a deceased king is honored and considered the rising sun in the eternal life. In this case then the origin of the name does not precludes that it was involved in its very origin as a religio-mythic cult of a primogenetor king who eternally lives and reigns and who can give us enlightenment. Judaism seems to have broken off from this cultic sun-worship and imputed to the one-uncreated-God the faculties and personality of $ama$ and established monotheism as an outgrowth and a response to this. Victor Horovitz wrote: Although the sun may have been adored in Israelite religion, biblical or post biblical, as has been asserted by many scholars (see, for example Morton Smith's article on Helios in Palestine in the Orlinsky Volume of Eretz Israel, or Hadley? articles and books), your argument is simply wrong, backward, and irrelevant. I agree that the Israeli sun worshipping would be irrelevant since it would have been post Sumerian period which first gave evidence to this phenomenon. Conseuently, Judaism would have been a development as an outgrowth from Sumerian culture, which appears to have lapsed back into its former Sumerian form from time to time. Victor Horovitz wrote: As for adoring the rising sun, in particular, I might refer you to the famous Sun Disk inscription of Nebobaladan (King, Babylonian Boundary Stones no. 36) which tells that the statue of $ama$ was lost, and until it was miraculously rediscovered, it was substituted for by a niphu. Now, niphu designates a sundisk model, round and decorated with a four pointed star with wavy lines characteristic of $ama$ between each arm of the star. If you look at a picture of the tablet you will see such a niphu. What is relevant to your suggestion about this, is that the Akkadian verb napahu, from which niphu is derived, means to break out in flames, and also sun rise, so if we may learn anything from this it may be that the accepted non-anthropormorphic symbol of the Babylonian Sun God $ama$ was a model of the rising sun. Victor Yes, Victor, $ama$ would have been associated with the sun and time, hence he would be considered as father-time or the eternal one, or, perhaps called, Lord Sun-Rise. It is from this origin that it appears that Judaism was born. Substituting or replacing Ehad the One the eternal and uncreated God, who is the source of all creation, with $ama$, forms the new monotheistic religion of Judaism. The first Jews had adored the sun but as the Father who could enlighten us and give revelations. He could speak through prophets, kings, priests, and reveal himself to the human family. The disolvement between monolitheistic cult worship with the sun and without it seems to have drifted in and out suggesting priests from different schools existed and that the high priests were selected shifting between these different schools from time to time. Best regards, John = John N. Lupia 501 North Avenue B-1 Elizabeth, New Jersey 07208-1731 USA For private reply, e-mail to Walter Mattfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: unsubscribe Orion. Archives are on the Orion Web site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il. (PLEASE REMOVE THIS TRAILOR BEFORE REPLYING TO THE MESSAGE)
