Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Dane Trethowan]

That's news to me too, interesting but then again it makes sense, 
speakers are farther away from each other.


Some of the best stereo I've heard from a tablet was from the Apple iPad 
Mini 4, outstanding given its size.




On 19/10/2016 12:23 PM, Hamit Campos wrote:

I found the stereo axeptable when I heard it at the apple store at the Danbury 
Fair Mall. I'llv  say that it isa cheep trick though. They just used the ear 
peace for the right channel I'm assuming it is. So it's like Okay apple 
seriously now you do this? I also now see more point to the gripe people have 
about the HeadPhone jack. I thought they had put the other speaker there or 
something. But I totally didn't expect what they infact did.

-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 3:49 PM
To: PC Audio Discussion List 
Subject: Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

I think the extra attachment you can get for that LG phone is a JBL speaker of 
some kind. Not sure about any sort of extra DAC. I will also be very curious 
what you think of the P9, although it is frankly out of my price range. I don't 
care how good it is, there must be limits. Smile. I went from an iPhone 6s to a 
7+, so I have a size difference in my phone, which might make for some of the 
differences in sound between the two. The 7+ is certainly louder than the 6S, 
and I do think it sounds better. The stereo image of course is a joke. I have a 
Nexus six android device for comparison. The iPhone sounds better. The stereo 
image if you want to call it that, on the Nexus is actually better, probably 
because the speakers both face the same direction. But the Nexus is so 
incredibly lacking in bass, that they might as well not have bothered with the 
stereo at all. The single iPhone speaker in my 6S sounded better than the Nexus 
with its dual stereo speakers.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:

A most interesting read!

I've always been impressed with the internal speakers on Apple iPhone though - 
like you - I've never taken them seriously for music listening but for speech 
and Voiceover the internal iPhone speaker is superb.

Now I have an iPhone 6 because of my Arcam DAC - the same as yours - and I had 
an iPhone 6S at one time.

I think - could be wrong - that the quality of the iPhone 6 speaker isn't quite 
as good as that of the 6S but none the less iits an improvement on the 5S and 
so its gone on right up through the iPhone series so I'm not at all surprised 
to hear that the speakers of the iPhone 7 sound good, that's the only thing 
that's tempting me to go out and buy an iPhone 7.

I'm not at all surprised to at your comments regarding the Lightning Dock to 
3.5MM jack converter but - as Apple have never ever provided high quality 
Earbuds with their iPhones anyway - its therefore not surprising that Apple 
didn't provide a high quality DAC but - having said that - I think Apple should 
have stated this and perhaps sold a higher quality converter - say for a couple 
of hundred dollars - so the user would at least have the choice of an upgrade.

LG does this with one of their phones, its a modular phone - can't remember the 
name of it - but the user has the choice of using what's available or buying 
other options to enhance the quality of audio, photos etc.

I have a set of Philips cans here that plug straight into a Lightning connector so - 
if and when I get a chance - I'm looking forward to connecting these to an iPhone 7 
and doing some comparisons with that cheap nasty lightning to 3.5MM jack converter 
.

I like you have a pair of P7's, love the things and - may as well tell you now - 
I'm off to listen to the B P9's shortly.




On 19/10/2016 6:17 AM, John Gurd wrote:
I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a weekend
break with limited opportunities to play with it.

  
Well, on this list there’s always someone who wants to know what the

phone speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly,
it’s the best sounding iPhone (that doesn’t have a Plus in its name) I’ve heard 
so far.
Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice
Over and books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don’t
listen to music on a phone speaker and am always surprised when
people give this aspect of audio serious consideration.

  
Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where they got rid of the

audio jack. So I took my trusty B P7 headphones, my ancient and
cheap but much-loved (for sentimental reasons) Koss Porto Pros and my
Bluetooth Plantronics BackBeat Pros and the lightening ear pods that
ship with the device. No DAC except the little lightning to 3.5mm
convertor supplied by Apple.

  
Here are my first impressions and I have to emphasis they were

entirely subjective with no attempt at rigor. Imagine my shock when I

RE: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Hamit Campos]

I found the stereo axeptable when I heard it at the apple store at the Danbury 
Fair Mall. I'llv  say that it isa cheep trick though. They just used the ear 
peace for the right channel I'm assuming it is. So it's like Okay apple 
seriously now you do this? I also now see more point to the gripe people have 
about the HeadPhone jack. I thought they had put the other speaker there or 
something. But I totally didn't expect what they infact did.

-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 3:49 PM
To: PC Audio Discussion List 
Subject: Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

I think the extra attachment you can get for that LG phone is a JBL speaker of 
some kind. Not sure about any sort of extra DAC. I will also be very curious 
what you think of the P9, although it is frankly out of my price range. I don't 
care how good it is, there must be limits. Smile. I went from an iPhone 6s to a 
7+, so I have a size difference in my phone, which might make for some of the 
differences in sound between the two. The 7+ is certainly louder than the 6S, 
and I do think it sounds better. The stereo image of course is a joke. I have a 
Nexus six android device for comparison. The iPhone sounds better. The stereo 
image if you want to call it that, on the Nexus is actually better, probably 
because the speakers both face the same direction. But the Nexus is so 
incredibly lacking in bass, that they might as well not have bothered with the 
stereo at all. The single iPhone speaker in my 6S sounded better than the Nexus 
with its dual stereo speakers.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> A most interesting read!
> 
> I've always been impressed with the internal speakers on Apple iPhone though 
> - like you - I've never taken them seriously for music listening but for 
> speech and Voiceover the internal iPhone speaker is superb.
> 
> Now I have an iPhone 6 because of my Arcam DAC - the same as yours - and I 
> had an iPhone 6S at one time.
> 
> I think - could be wrong - that the quality of the iPhone 6 speaker isn't 
> quite as good as that of the 6S but none the less iits an improvement on the 
> 5S and so its gone on right up through the iPhone series so I'm not at all 
> surprised to hear that the speakers of the iPhone 7 sound good, that's the 
> only thing that's tempting me to go out and buy an iPhone 7.
> 
> I'm not at all surprised to at your comments regarding the Lightning Dock to 
> 3.5MM jack converter but - as Apple have never ever provided high quality 
> Earbuds with their iPhones anyway - its therefore not surprising that Apple 
> didn't provide a high quality DAC but - having said that - I think Apple 
> should have stated this and perhaps sold a higher quality converter - say for 
> a couple of hundred dollars - so the user would at least have the choice of 
> an upgrade.
> 
> LG does this with one of their phones, its a modular phone - can't remember 
> the name of it - but the user has the choice of using what's available or 
> buying other options to enhance the quality of audio, photos etc.
> 
> I have a set of Philips cans here that plug straight into a Lightning 
> connector so - if and when I get a chance - I'm looking forward to connecting 
> these to an iPhone 7 and doing some comparisons with that cheap nasty 
> lightning to 3.5MM jack converter .
> 
> I like you have a pair of P7's, love the things and - may as well tell you 
> now - I'm off to listen to the B P9's shortly.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 19/10/2016 6:17 AM, John Gurd wrote:
>> I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a weekend 
>> break with limited opportunities to play with it.
>> 
>>  
>> Well, on this list there’s always someone who wants to know what the 
>> phone speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly, 
>> it’s the best sounding iPhone (that doesn’t have a Plus in its name) I’ve 
>> heard so far.
>> Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice 
>> Over and books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don’t 
>> listen to music on a phone speaker and am always surprised when 
>> people give this aspect of audio serious consideration.
>> 
>>  
>> Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where they got rid of the 
>> audio jack. So I took my trusty B P7 headphones, my ancient and 
>> cheap but much-loved (for sentimental reasons) Koss Porto Pros and my 
>> Bluetooth Plantronics BackBeat Pros and the lightening ear pods that 
>> ship with the device. No DAC except the little lightning to 3.5mm 
>> convertor supplied by Apple.
>> 
>>  
>> Here are my first impressions and I have to emphasis they were 
>> entirely subjective with no attempt at rigor. Imagine my shock when I 
>> tried my P7s and thought they sounded awful! The mid-range was thin 
>> with a hardness I never noticed 

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Mary Otten]

Well, for great audio, you can get the zte axon 7 for $400 U.S. The
only issue is the software and its accessibility quirks and what one
must do to deal with that. I was on the edge of purchasing one of those
because of the audio, but decided I didn't want to fool with the
quirks. 

Mary

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Dane Trethowan]

Its the LG G5 phone.

I'd like to comment on "Expensive" if I may .

I agree that some phones are indeed "Expensive" and I also agree that 
the Apple offerings are very "Expensive" however what I've generally 
found in the Android world is that those "Expensive" phones perform 
better and behave better -not to mention the fact that they those 
"Expensive" phones - exhibit better quality when it comes to audio and 
video, performance etc.


I've played with cheaper models of phones but - in the end - I've been 
happy to rid myself of them after a while and go back to the now old 
Samsung Galaxy S6.


Audio quality from that is far better than what is found from the 
headphones socket of an iPhone for example, this cannot always be said 
for cheaper Android devices however there's nothing out of the ordenary 
there, they are cheaper devices after all and corners are often cut.




On 19/10/2016 8:42 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

Somehow I guess I missed the memo so to speak, about that LG DAC attachment. 
Which model phone is that? It isn't the really new one, is it? If it is, it's 
expensive. Without going into a bunch of detail, one of the things I don't like 
about Apple devices is their cost. One of the things I  least appreciate about 
android is having to screw around with it. That's why I bought a Nexus. Anyway, 
that's for a different list. I really am not thrilled with the audio on my 
Nexus, however. So I guess nothing is perfect anywhere you go.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 18, 2016, at 2:13 PM, John Gurd  wrote:

I considered getting that modular LG phone for the DAC attachment. I've never 
owned an Android device and I got cold feet as to the effort I'd have to put 
into getting to grips with it. You can get into a comfort zone with IOS devices 
that is hard to break. And I think some of my apps may not be so accessible or 
even available on the Android platform. But part of me would love to break out 
of that walled garden called Apple (smiles).

John


-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
Trethowan
Sent: 18 October 2016 20:57
To: PC Audio Discussion List
Subject: Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

No, nothing to do with JBL, B make a DAC for the Lg phone I mentioned.

I also mentioned that - being a modula phone - various modules could be attached, the 
B DAC being a case in point so - when I think about it  - its quite 
possible that JBL might make a speaker of some kind for that phone.

I'm not in a hurry to buy the B P9 either but - already having P7's and 
naturally curious to see what the P9's sound like in comparison.

Of more immediate interest to me in the B line is the B P7 wireless.




On 19/10/2016 6:49 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
I think the extra attachment you can get for that LG phone is a JBL speaker of 
some kind. Not sure about any sort of extra DAC. I will also be very curious 
what you think of the P9, although it is frankly out of my price range. I don't 
care how good it is, there must be limits. Smile. I went from an iPhone 6s to a 
7+, so I have a size difference in my phone, which might make for some of the 
differences in sound between the two. The 7+ is certainly louder than the 6S, 
and I do think it sounds better. The stereo image of course is a joke. I have a 
Nexus six android device for comparison. The iPhone sounds better. The stereo 
image if you want to call it that, on the Nexus is actually better, probably 
because the speakers both face the same direction. But the Nexus is so 
incredibly lacking in bass, that they might as well not have bothered with the 
stereo at all. The single iPhone speaker in my 6S sounded better than the Nexus 
with its dual stereo speakers.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:

A most interesting read!

I've always been impressed with the internal speakers on Apple iPhone though - 
like you - I've never taken them seriously for music listening but for speech 
and Voiceover the internal iPhone speaker is superb.

Now I have an iPhone 6 because of my Arcam DAC - the same as yours - and I had 
an iPhone 6S at one time.

I think - could be wrong - that the quality of the iPhone 6 speaker isn't quite 
as good as that of the 6S but none the less iits an improvement on the 5S and 
so its gone on right up through the iPhone series so I'm not at all surprised 
to hear that the speakers of the iPhone 7 sound good, that's the only thing 
that's tempting me to go out and buy an iPhone 7.

I'm not at all surprised to at your comments regarding the Lightning Dock to 
3.5MM jack converter but - as Apple have never ever provided high quality 
Earbuds with their iPhones anyway - its therefore not surprising that Apple 
didn't provide a high quality DAC but - having said that - I think Apple should 
have stated this and perhaps sold a higher quality converter - say for a couple 
of hundred dollars 

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Mary Otten]

Somehow I guess I missed the memo so to speak, about that LG DAC attachment. 
Which model phone is that? It isn't the really new one, is it? If it is, it's 
expensive. Without going into a bunch of detail, one of the things I don't like 
about Apple devices is their cost. One of the things I  least appreciate about 
android is having to screw around with it. That's why I bought a Nexus. Anyway, 
that's for a different list. I really am not thrilled with the audio on my 
Nexus, however. So I guess nothing is perfect anywhere you go.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 2:13 PM, John Gurd  wrote:
> 
> I considered getting that modular LG phone for the DAC attachment. I've never 
> owned an Android device and I got cold feet as to the effort I'd have to put 
> into getting to grips with it. You can get into a comfort zone with IOS 
> devices that is hard to break. And I think some of my apps may not be so 
> accessible or even available on the Android platform. But part of me would 
> love to break out of that walled garden called Apple (smiles).
> 
> John
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
> Trethowan
> Sent: 18 October 2016 20:57
> To: PC Audio Discussion List
> Subject: Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?
> 
> No, nothing to do with JBL, B make a DAC for the Lg phone I mentioned.
> 
> I also mentioned that - being a modula phone - various modules could be 
> attached, the B DAC being a case in point so - when I think about it 
>  - its quite possible that JBL might make a speaker of some kind for 
> that phone.
> 
> I'm not in a hurry to buy the B P9 either but - already having P7's and 
> naturally curious to see what the P9's sound like in comparison.
> 
> Of more immediate interest to me in the B line is the B P7 wireless.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 19/10/2016 6:49 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> I think the extra attachment you can get for that LG phone is a JBL speaker 
>> of some kind. Not sure about any sort of extra DAC. I will also be very 
>> curious what you think of the P9, although it is frankly out of my price 
>> range. I don't care how good it is, there must be limits. Smile. I went from 
>> an iPhone 6s to a 7+, so I have a size difference in my phone, which might 
>> make for some of the differences in sound between the two. The 7+ is 
>> certainly louder than the 6S, and I do think it sounds better. The stereo 
>> image of course is a joke. I have a Nexus six android device for comparison. 
>> The iPhone sounds better. The stereo image if you want to call it that, on 
>> the Nexus is actually better, probably because the speakers both face the 
>> same direction. But the Nexus is so incredibly lacking in bass, that they 
>> might as well not have bothered with the stereo at all. The single iPhone 
>> speaker in my 6S sounded better than the Nexus with its dual stereo speakers.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dane Trethowan  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> A most interesting read!
>>> 
>>> I've always been impressed with the internal speakers on Apple iPhone 
>>> though - like you - I've never taken them seriously for music listening but 
>>> for speech and Voiceover the internal iPhone speaker is superb.
>>> 
>>> Now I have an iPhone 6 because of my Arcam DAC - the same as yours - and I 
>>> had an iPhone 6S at one time.
>>> 
>>> I think - could be wrong - that the quality of the iPhone 6 speaker isn't 
>>> quite as good as that of the 6S but none the less iits an improvement on 
>>> the 5S and so its gone on right up through the iPhone series so I'm not at 
>>> all surprised to hear that the speakers of the iPhone 7 sound good, that's 
>>> the only thing that's tempting me to go out and buy an iPhone 7.
>>> 
>>> I'm not at all surprised to at your comments regarding the Lightning Dock 
>>> to 3.5MM jack converter but - as Apple have never ever provided high 
>>> quality Earbuds with their iPhones anyway - its therefore not surprising 
>>> that Apple didn't provide a high quality DAC but - having said that - I 
>>> think Apple should have stated this and perhaps sold a higher quality 
>>> converter - say for a couple of hundred dollars - so the user would at 
>>> least have the choice of an upgrade.
>>> 
>>> LG does this with one of their phones, its a modular phone - can't remember 
>>> the name of it - but the user has the choice of using what's available or 
>>> buying other options to enhance the quality of audio, photos etc.
>>> 
>>> I have a set of Philips cans here that plug straight into a Lightning 
>>> connector so - if and when I get a chance - I'm looking forward to 
>>> connecting these to an iPhone 7 and doing some comparisons with that cheap 
>>> nasty lightning to 3.5MM jack converter .
>>> 
>>> I like you have a pair of P7's, love the things and - may as well tell you 
>>> now - I'm off to listen to the B P9's shortly.

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Dane Trethowan]

Yes, understood.

I "Broke Out" so to speak and I won't go into reasons as to why here as 
this really isn't the place for that sort of thing.


Suffice to say that there are plenty of good Android Apps out there and 
- whilst possibly not the names you know of under IOS - they're in the 
main very accessible.


I know a few people who are on this list who - like me - are on some 
Android lists so - when you're ready - feel free to join and at least 
take part in the discussion so your feet are warmed .




On 19/10/2016 8:13 AM, John Gurd wrote:

I considered getting that modular LG phone for the DAC attachment. I've never 
owned an Android device and I got cold feet as to the effort I'd have to put 
into getting to grips with it. You can get into a comfort zone with IOS devices 
that is hard to break. And I think some of my apps may not be so accessible or 
even available on the Android platform. But part of me would love to break out 
of that walled garden called Apple (smiles).

John


-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
Trethowan
Sent: 18 October 2016 20:57
To: PC Audio Discussion List
Subject: Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

No, nothing to do with JBL, B make a DAC for the Lg phone I mentioned.

I also mentioned that - being a modula phone - various modules could be attached, the 
B DAC being a case in point so - when I think about it  - its quite 
possible that JBL might make a speaker of some kind for that phone.

I'm not in a hurry to buy the B P9 either but - already having P7's and 
naturally curious to see what the P9's sound like in comparison.

Of more immediate interest to me in the B line is the B P7 wireless.



On 19/10/2016 6:49 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

I think the extra attachment you can get for that LG phone is a JBL speaker of 
some kind. Not sure about any sort of extra DAC. I will also be very curious 
what you think of the P9, although it is frankly out of my price range. I don't 
care how good it is, there must be limits. Smile. I went from an iPhone 6s to a 
7+, so I have a size difference in my phone, which might make for some of the 
differences in sound between the two. The 7+ is certainly louder than the 6S, 
and I do think it sounds better. The stereo image of course is a joke. I have a 
Nexus six android device for comparison. The iPhone sounds better. The stereo 
image if you want to call it that, on the Nexus is actually better, probably 
because the speakers both face the same direction. But the Nexus is so 
incredibly lacking in bass, that they might as well not have bothered with the 
stereo at all. The single iPhone speaker in my 6S sounded better than the Nexus 
with its dual stereo speakers.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:

A most interesting read!

I've always been impressed with the internal speakers on Apple iPhone though - 
like you - I've never taken them seriously for music listening but for speech 
and Voiceover the internal iPhone speaker is superb.

Now I have an iPhone 6 because of my Arcam DAC - the same as yours - and I had 
an iPhone 6S at one time.

I think - could be wrong - that the quality of the iPhone 6 speaker isn't quite 
as good as that of the 6S but none the less iits an improvement on the 5S and 
so its gone on right up through the iPhone series so I'm not at all surprised 
to hear that the speakers of the iPhone 7 sound good, that's the only thing 
that's tempting me to go out and buy an iPhone 7.

I'm not at all surprised to at your comments regarding the Lightning Dock to 
3.5MM jack converter but - as Apple have never ever provided high quality 
Earbuds with their iPhones anyway - its therefore not surprising that Apple 
didn't provide a high quality DAC but - having said that - I think Apple should 
have stated this and perhaps sold a higher quality converter - say for a couple 
of hundred dollars - so the user would at least have the choice of an upgrade.

LG does this with one of their phones, its a modular phone - can't remember the 
name of it - but the user has the choice of using what's available or buying 
other options to enhance the quality of audio, photos etc.

I have a set of Philips cans here that plug straight into a Lightning connector so - 
if and when I get a chance - I'm looking forward to connecting these to an iPhone 7 
and doing some comparisons with that cheap nasty lightning to 3.5MM jack converter 
.

I like you have a pair of P7's, love the things and - may as well tell you now - 
I'm off to listen to the B P9's shortly.




On 19/10/2016 6:17 AM, John Gurd wrote:
I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a
weekend break with limited opportunities to play with it.

   
Well, on this list there s always someone who wants to know what the

phone speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly,
it s the best sounding iPhone (that doesn t have 

RE: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[John Gurd]

I considered getting that modular LG phone for the DAC attachment. I've never 
owned an Android device and I got cold feet as to the effort I'd have to put 
into getting to grips with it. You can get into a comfort zone with IOS devices 
that is hard to break. And I think some of my apps may not be so accessible or 
even available on the Android platform. But part of me would love to break out 
of that walled garden called Apple (smiles).

John


-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
Trethowan
Sent: 18 October 2016 20:57
To: PC Audio Discussion List
Subject: Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

No, nothing to do with JBL, B make a DAC for the Lg phone I mentioned.

I also mentioned that - being a modula phone - various modules could be 
attached, the B DAC being a case in point so - when I think about it  
- its quite possible that JBL might make a speaker of some kind for that phone.

I'm not in a hurry to buy the B P9 either but - already having P7's and 
naturally curious to see what the P9's sound like in comparison.

Of more immediate interest to me in the B line is the B P7 wireless.



On 19/10/2016 6:49 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
> I think the extra attachment you can get for that LG phone is a JBL speaker 
> of some kind. Not sure about any sort of extra DAC. I will also be very 
> curious what you think of the P9, although it is frankly out of my price 
> range. I don't care how good it is, there must be limits. Smile. I went from 
> an iPhone 6s to a 7+, so I have a size difference in my phone, which might 
> make for some of the differences in sound between the two. The 7+ is 
> certainly louder than the 6S, and I do think it sounds better. The stereo 
> image of course is a joke. I have a Nexus six android device for comparison. 
> The iPhone sounds better. The stereo image if you want to call it that, on 
> the Nexus is actually better, probably because the speakers both face the 
> same direction. But the Nexus is so incredibly lacking in bass, that they 
> might as well not have bothered with the stereo at all. The single iPhone 
> speaker in my 6S sounded better than the Nexus with its dual stereo speakers.
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dane Trethowan  
>> wrote:
>>
>> A most interesting read!
>>
>> I've always been impressed with the internal speakers on Apple iPhone though 
>> - like you - I've never taken them seriously for music listening but for 
>> speech and Voiceover the internal iPhone speaker is superb.
>>
>> Now I have an iPhone 6 because of my Arcam DAC - the same as yours - and I 
>> had an iPhone 6S at one time.
>>
>> I think - could be wrong - that the quality of the iPhone 6 speaker isn't 
>> quite as good as that of the 6S but none the less iits an improvement on the 
>> 5S and so its gone on right up through the iPhone series so I'm not at all 
>> surprised to hear that the speakers of the iPhone 7 sound good, that's the 
>> only thing that's tempting me to go out and buy an iPhone 7.
>>
>> I'm not at all surprised to at your comments regarding the Lightning Dock to 
>> 3.5MM jack converter but - as Apple have never ever provided high quality 
>> Earbuds with their iPhones anyway - its therefore not surprising that Apple 
>> didn't provide a high quality DAC but - having said that - I think Apple 
>> should have stated this and perhaps sold a higher quality converter - say 
>> for a couple of hundred dollars - so the user would at least have the choice 
>> of an upgrade.
>>
>> LG does this with one of their phones, its a modular phone - can't remember 
>> the name of it - but the user has the choice of using what's available or 
>> buying other options to enhance the quality of audio, photos etc.
>>
>> I have a set of Philips cans here that plug straight into a Lightning 
>> connector so - if and when I get a chance - I'm looking forward to 
>> connecting these to an iPhone 7 and doing some comparisons with that cheap 
>> nasty lightning to 3.5MM jack converter .
>>
>> I like you have a pair of P7's, love the things and - may as well tell you 
>> now - I'm off to listen to the B P9's shortly.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 19/10/2016 6:17 AM, John Gurd wrote:
>>> I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a 
>>> weekend break with limited opportunities to play with it.
>>>
>>>   
>>> Well, on this list there s always someone who wants to know what the 
>>> phone speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly, 
>>> it s the best sounding iPhone (that doesn t have a Plus in its name) I ve 
>>> heard so far.
>>> Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice 
>>> Over and books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don t 
>>> listen to music on a phone speaker and am always surprised when 
>>> people give this aspect of audio serious consideration.
>>>
>>>   
>>> Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where 

RE: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[John Gurd]

Hi Mary
I've no doubt the adaptor will drive most headphones very high. I briefly had 
my P7s up very loud just to see how loud they would get. And they did get very 
loud. I just didn't like the sound. The trouble is the traits I described made 
it uncomfortable listening even before the volume got all that high. Audio can 
be very subjective. I wouldn't say they were unlistenable, but I did feel the 
adaptor changed the audio in a way I didn't like. I'll be interested to hear 
what you think. 

John

-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: 18 October 2016 20:34
To: PC Audio Discussion List
Subject: Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

Hi John,
Your findings are interesting. I have not gotten around to actually using 
headphones with this little new adapter. I was intrigued, however, when I saw a 
post yesterday or the day before from a guy who says he was able to use his EKG 
to 40s with the little adapter with great effect. He said they really sounded 
good. Those phones typically require an extra  amp to be driven decently. I 
have a pair of a KGQ701 phones which are really nice, but if you don't have a 
preamp, forget it. So I thought I would try them but haven't done it yet with 
the little new adapter. I will be curious to see if I hear the same things that 
you did. I really liked the P7 even just with the output from the iPhone 6s. 
It's not perfect. But convenience can't be beat. I was hoping that the 
experience would be even better with this new phone and it's DAC, being better 
than the power straight out of the 6S. I guess I will have to get to it and see 
what I think.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:17 PM, John Gurd  wrote:
> 
> I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a weekend 
> break with limited opportunities to play with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, on this list there s always someone who wants to know what the 
> phone speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly, 
> it s the best sounding iPhone (that doesn t have a Plus in its name) I ve 
> heard so far.
> Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice 
> Over and books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don t 
> listen to music on a phone speaker and am always surprised when people 
> give this aspect of audio serious consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where they got rid of the 
> audio jack. So I took my trusty B P7 headphones, my ancient and 
> cheap but much-loved (for sentimental reasons) Koss Porto Pros and my 
> Bluetooth Plantronics BackBeat Pros and the lightening ear pods that 
> ship with the device. No DAC except the little lightning to 3.5mm 
> convertor supplied by Apple.
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my first impressions and I have to emphasis they were 
> entirely subjective with no attempt at rigor. Imagine my shock when I 
> tried my P7s and thought they sounded awful! The mid-range was thin 
> with a hardness I never noticed before. The base was there but not 
> particularly extended. The music sounded kind of flat with no real 
> involvement. For the first time I felt I knew what was meant when 
> components were described as unmusical. When I then tried my Koss 
> Porto Pros whose basic design hasn t changed since the 1980 s and 
> which at one point retailed at around  25 I actually thought they 
> sounded better but with the qualities described above still present, 
> perhaps with more space and a warmer tone. The Bluetooth BackBeat Pros 
> sounded the best with musicality restored and a warmth replacing the 
> hard midrange. The Apple earpods were what you would expect: a good reason 
> for buying decent headphones for your Apple device.
> 
> 
> 
> The culprit, of course, was the $9 DAC provided by Apple for those 
> folk who will insist on owning headphones with a 3.5mm plug. The 
> frustrating thing was that as I was away from home I couldn t try any 
> other lightning to audio DAC. I did have my Arcam MusicBoost case but 
> as it is made for the thinner iPhone 6 I didn t fancy having my new 
> iPhone 7 permanently wedged in it. Out of desperation I did gingerly 
> try to insert it but gave up when it became clear it would end in disaster.
> 
> 
> 
> What I didn t do (and still haven t done) was try the above headphones 
> with the audio jack on my old iPhone 6 to see if it really did sound 
> worse on the iPhone 7 or if it was just a trick of the mind because I 
> was expecting better. Since arriving home I have tried my P7s with the 
> Oppo HA 2 DAC and the iPhone 7 and I am glad to say they were back to 
> being absolutely stunning. That s a relief. I then tried them again 
> with the little Apple supplied DAC converter and although they weren t 
> as shockingly bad as my first impression they still sounded seriously 
> under par, and that also when for my little plastic Porto Pros. Yet I 
> still feel even the 

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Dane Trethowan]

No, nothing to do with JBL, B make a DAC for the Lg phone I mentioned.

I also mentioned that - being a modula phone - various modules could be 
attached, the B DAC being a case in point so - when I think about it 
 - its quite possible that JBL might make a speaker of some kind 
for that phone.


I'm not in a hurry to buy the B P9 either but - already having P7's 
and naturally curious to see what the P9's sound like in comparison.


Of more immediate interest to me in the B line is the B P7 wireless.



On 19/10/2016 6:49 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

I think the extra attachment you can get for that LG phone is a JBL speaker of 
some kind. Not sure about any sort of extra DAC. I will also be very curious 
what you think of the P9, although it is frankly out of my price range. I don't 
care how good it is, there must be limits. Smile. I went from an iPhone 6s to a 
7+, so I have a size difference in my phone, which might make for some of the 
differences in sound between the two. The 7+ is certainly louder than the 6S, 
and I do think it sounds better. The stereo image of course is a joke. I have a 
Nexus six android device for comparison. The iPhone sounds better. The stereo 
image if you want to call it that, on the Nexus is actually better, probably 
because the speakers both face the same direction. But the Nexus is so 
incredibly lacking in bass, that they might as well not have bothered with the 
stereo at all. The single iPhone speaker in my 6S sounded better than the Nexus 
with its dual stereo speakers.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:

A most interesting read!

I've always been impressed with the internal speakers on Apple iPhone though - 
like you - I've never taken them seriously for music listening but for speech 
and Voiceover the internal iPhone speaker is superb.

Now I have an iPhone 6 because of my Arcam DAC - the same as yours - and I had 
an iPhone 6S at one time.

I think - could be wrong - that the quality of the iPhone 6 speaker isn't quite 
as good as that of the 6S but none the less iits an improvement on the 5S and 
so its gone on right up through the iPhone series so I'm not at all surprised 
to hear that the speakers of the iPhone 7 sound good, that's the only thing 
that's tempting me to go out and buy an iPhone 7.

I'm not at all surprised to at your comments regarding the Lightning Dock to 
3.5MM jack converter but - as Apple have never ever provided high quality 
Earbuds with their iPhones anyway - its therefore not surprising that Apple 
didn't provide a high quality DAC but - having said that - I think Apple should 
have stated this and perhaps sold a higher quality converter - say for a couple 
of hundred dollars - so the user would at least have the choice of an upgrade.

LG does this with one of their phones, its a modular phone - can't remember the 
name of it - but the user has the choice of using what's available or buying 
other options to enhance the quality of audio, photos etc.

I have a set of Philips cans here that plug straight into a Lightning connector so - 
if and when I get a chance - I'm looking forward to connecting these to an iPhone 7 
and doing some comparisons with that cheap nasty lightning to 3.5MM jack converter 
.

I like you have a pair of P7's, love the things and - may as well tell you now - 
I'm off to listen to the B P9's shortly.




On 19/10/2016 6:17 AM, John Gurd wrote:
I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a weekend break
with limited opportunities to play with it.

  
Well, on this list there’s always someone who wants to know what the phone

speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly, it’s the best
sounding iPhone (that doesn’t have a Plus in its name) I’ve heard so far.
Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice Over and
books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don’t listen to music on
a phone speaker and am always surprised when people give this aspect of
audio serious consideration.

  
Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where they got rid of the audio

jack. So I took my trusty B P7 headphones, my ancient and cheap but
much-loved (for sentimental reasons) Koss Porto Pros and my Bluetooth
Plantronics BackBeat Pros and the lightening ear pods that ship with the
device. No DAC except the little lightning to 3.5mm convertor supplied by
Apple.

  
Here are my first impressions and I have to emphasis they were entirely

subjective with no attempt at rigor. Imagine my shock when I tried my P7s
and thought they sounded awful! The mid-range was thin with a hardness I
never noticed before. The base was there but not particularly extended. The
music sounded kind of flat with no real involvement. For the first time I
felt I knew what was meant when components were described as unmusical. When
I then tried my Koss Porto Pros whose basic design hasn’t changed since the
1980’s and which at one 

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Mary Otten]

I think the extra attachment you can get for that LG phone is a JBL speaker of 
some kind. Not sure about any sort of extra DAC. I will also be very curious 
what you think of the P9, although it is frankly out of my price range. I don't 
care how good it is, there must be limits. Smile. I went from an iPhone 6s to a 
7+, so I have a size difference in my phone, which might make for some of the 
differences in sound between the two. The 7+ is certainly louder than the 6S, 
and I do think it sounds better. The stereo image of course is a joke. I have a 
Nexus six android device for comparison. The iPhone sounds better. The stereo 
image if you want to call it that, on the Nexus is actually better, probably 
because the speakers both face the same direction. But the Nexus is so 
incredibly lacking in bass, that they might as well not have bothered with the 
stereo at all. The single iPhone speaker in my 6S sounded better than the Nexus 
with its dual stereo speakers.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> A most interesting read!
> 
> I've always been impressed with the internal speakers on Apple iPhone though 
> - like you - I've never taken them seriously for music listening but for 
> speech and Voiceover the internal iPhone speaker is superb.
> 
> Now I have an iPhone 6 because of my Arcam DAC - the same as yours - and I 
> had an iPhone 6S at one time.
> 
> I think - could be wrong - that the quality of the iPhone 6 speaker isn't 
> quite as good as that of the 6S but none the less iits an improvement on the 
> 5S and so its gone on right up through the iPhone series so I'm not at all 
> surprised to hear that the speakers of the iPhone 7 sound good, that's the 
> only thing that's tempting me to go out and buy an iPhone 7.
> 
> I'm not at all surprised to at your comments regarding the Lightning Dock to 
> 3.5MM jack converter but - as Apple have never ever provided high quality 
> Earbuds with their iPhones anyway - its therefore not surprising that Apple 
> didn't provide a high quality DAC but - having said that - I think Apple 
> should have stated this and perhaps sold a higher quality converter - say for 
> a couple of hundred dollars - so the user would at least have the choice of 
> an upgrade.
> 
> LG does this with one of their phones, its a modular phone - can't remember 
> the name of it - but the user has the choice of using what's available or 
> buying other options to enhance the quality of audio, photos etc.
> 
> I have a set of Philips cans here that plug straight into a Lightning 
> connector so - if and when I get a chance - I'm looking forward to connecting 
> these to an iPhone 7 and doing some comparisons with that cheap nasty 
> lightning to 3.5MM jack converter .
> 
> I like you have a pair of P7's, love the things and - may as well tell you 
> now - I'm off to listen to the B P9's shortly.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 19/10/2016 6:17 AM, John Gurd wrote:
>> I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a weekend break
>> with limited opportunities to play with it.
>> 
>>  
>> Well, on this list there’s always someone who wants to know what the phone
>> speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly, it’s the best
>> sounding iPhone (that doesn’t have a Plus in its name) I’ve heard so far.
>> Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice Over and
>> books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don’t listen to music on
>> a phone speaker and am always surprised when people give this aspect of
>> audio serious consideration.
>> 
>>  
>> Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where they got rid of the audio
>> jack. So I took my trusty B P7 headphones, my ancient and cheap but
>> much-loved (for sentimental reasons) Koss Porto Pros and my Bluetooth
>> Plantronics BackBeat Pros and the lightening ear pods that ship with the
>> device. No DAC except the little lightning to 3.5mm convertor supplied by
>> Apple.
>> 
>>  
>> Here are my first impressions and I have to emphasis they were entirely
>> subjective with no attempt at rigor. Imagine my shock when I tried my P7s
>> and thought they sounded awful! The mid-range was thin with a hardness I
>> never noticed before. The base was there but not particularly extended. The
>> music sounded kind of flat with no real involvement. For the first time I
>> felt I knew what was meant when components were described as unmusical. When
>> I then tried my Koss Porto Pros whose basic design hasn’t changed since the
>> 1980’s and which at one point retailed at around £25 I actually thought they
>> sounded better but with the qualities described above still present, perhaps
>> with more space and a warmer tone. The Bluetooth BackBeat Pros sounded the
>> best with musicality restored and a warmth replacing the hard midrange. The
>> Apple earpods were what you would expect: a good reason for buying decent
>> headphones for your 

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Dane Trethowan]

Hi Mary!

Interested in what you say about the B P7 when connected to the iPhone.

Yeah, output is quite decent though it could be better and I'm not 
complaining about that as all the reviews I read on the B P7 did warn 
about the output of the cans when connected to an iPhone.


I now have a pair of the Sony MDr-7506 canns and - whilst not in the 
league of the B P7 - they sound very nice on iPhone which is amazing 
given the price tak - about a quarter of what one would pay for the B 
P7 -.


Again this is all subjective and its all down to personal choice and 
taste but an interesting discussion nevertheless.




On 19/10/2016 6:34 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

Hi John,
Your findings are interesting. I have not gotten around to actually using 
headphones with this little new adapter. I was intrigued, however, when I saw a 
post yesterday or the day before from a guy who says he was able to use his EKG 
to 40s with the little adapter with great effect. He said they really sounded 
good. Those phones typically require an extra  amp to be driven decently. I 
have a pair of a KGQ701 phones which are really nice, but if you don't have a 
preamp, forget it. So I thought I would try them but haven't done it yet with 
the little new adapter. I will be curious to see if I hear the same things that 
you did. I really liked the P7 even just with the output from the iPhone 6s. 
It's not perfect. But convenience can't be beat. I was hoping that the 
experience would be even better with this new phone and it's DAC, being better 
than the power straight out of the 6S. I guess I will have to get to it and see 
what I think.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:17 PM, John Gurd  wrote:

I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a weekend break
with limited opportunities to play with it.



Well, on this list there’s always someone who wants to know what the phone
speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly, it’s the best
sounding iPhone (that doesn’t have a Plus in its name) I’ve heard so far.
Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice Over and
books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don’t listen to music on
a phone speaker and am always surprised when people give this aspect of
audio serious consideration.



Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where they got rid of the audio
jack. So I took my trusty B P7 headphones, my ancient and cheap but
much-loved (for sentimental reasons) Koss Porto Pros and my Bluetooth
Plantronics BackBeat Pros and the lightening ear pods that ship with the
device. No DAC except the little lightning to 3.5mm convertor supplied by
Apple.



Here are my first impressions and I have to emphasis they were entirely
subjective with no attempt at rigor. Imagine my shock when I tried my P7s
and thought they sounded awful! The mid-range was thin with a hardness I
never noticed before. The base was there but not particularly extended. The
music sounded kind of flat with no real involvement. For the first time I
felt I knew what was meant when components were described as unmusical. When
I then tried my Koss Porto Pros whose basic design hasn’t changed since the
1980’s and which at one point retailed at around £25 I actually thought they
sounded better but with the qualities described above still present, perhaps
with more space and a warmer tone. The Bluetooth BackBeat Pros sounded the
best with musicality restored and a warmth replacing the hard midrange. The
Apple earpods were what you would expect: a good reason for buying decent
headphones for your Apple device.



The culprit, of course, was the $9 DAC provided by Apple for those folk who
will insist on owning headphones with a 3.5mm plug. The frustrating thing
was that as I was away from home I couldn’t try any other lightning to audio
DAC. I did have my Arcam MusicBoost case but as it is made for the thinner
iPhone 6 I didn’t fancy having my new iPhone 7 permanently wedged in it. Out
of desperation I did gingerly try to insert it but gave up when it became
clear it would end in disaster.



What I didn’t do (and still haven’t done) was try the above headphones with
the audio jack on my old iPhone 6 to see if it really did sound worse on the
iPhone 7 or if it was just a trick of the mind because I was expecting
better. Since arriving home I have tried my P7s with the Oppo HA 2 DAC and
the iPhone 7 and I am glad to say they were back to being absolutely
stunning. That’s a relief. I then tried them again with the little Apple
supplied DAC converter and although they weren’t as shockingly bad as my
first impression they still sounded seriously under par, and that also when
for my little plastic Porto Pros. Yet I still feel even the Porto Pros
sounded better with the old audio jack. It mostly came down to that sense of
hardness and lack of musicality I felt I detected.



Well, what do you expect for what amounts to a $9 DAC, I hear you say. 

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Dane Trethowan]

A most interesting read!

I've always been impressed with the internal speakers on Apple iPhone 
though - like you - I've never taken them seriously for music listening 
but for speech and Voiceover the internal iPhone speaker is superb.


Now I have an iPhone 6 because of my Arcam DAC - the same as yours - and 
I had an iPhone 6S at one time.


I think - could be wrong - that the quality of the iPhone 6 speaker 
isn't quite as good as that of the 6S but none the less iits an 
improvement on the 5S and so its gone on right up through the iPhone 
series so I'm not at all surprised to hear that the speakers of the 
iPhone 7 sound good, that's the only thing that's tempting me to go out 
and buy an iPhone 7.


I'm not at all surprised to at your comments regarding the Lightning 
Dock to 3.5MM jack converter but - as Apple have never ever provided 
high quality Earbuds with their iPhones anyway - its therefore not 
surprising that Apple didn't provide a high quality DAC but - having 
said that - I think Apple should have stated this and perhaps sold a 
higher quality converter - say for a couple of hundred dollars - so the 
user would at least have the choice of an upgrade.


LG does this with one of their phones, its a modular phone - can't 
remember the name of it - but the user has the choice of using what's 
available or buying other options to enhance the quality of audio, 
photos etc.


I have a set of Philips cans here that plug straight into a Lightning 
connector so - if and when I get a chance - I'm looking forward to 
connecting these to an iPhone 7 and doing some comparisons with that 
cheap nasty lightning to 3.5MM jack converter .


I like you have a pair of P7's, love the things and - may as well tell 
you now - I'm off to listen to the B P9's shortly.




On 19/10/2016 6:17 AM, John Gurd wrote:

I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a weekend break
with limited opportunities to play with it.

  


Well, on this list there’s always someone who wants to know what the phone
speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly, it’s the best
sounding iPhone (that doesn’t have a Plus in its name) I’ve heard so far.
Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice Over and
books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don’t listen to music on
a phone speaker and am always surprised when people give this aspect of
audio serious consideration.

  


Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where they got rid of the audio
jack. So I took my trusty B P7 headphones, my ancient and cheap but
much-loved (for sentimental reasons) Koss Porto Pros and my Bluetooth
Plantronics BackBeat Pros and the lightening ear pods that ship with the
device. No DAC except the little lightning to 3.5mm convertor supplied by
Apple.

  


Here are my first impressions and I have to emphasis they were entirely
subjective with no attempt at rigor. Imagine my shock when I tried my P7s
and thought they sounded awful! The mid-range was thin with a hardness I
never noticed before. The base was there but not particularly extended. The
music sounded kind of flat with no real involvement. For the first time I
felt I knew what was meant when components were described as unmusical. When
I then tried my Koss Porto Pros whose basic design hasn’t changed since the
1980’s and which at one point retailed at around £25 I actually thought they
sounded better but with the qualities described above still present, perhaps
with more space and a warmer tone. The Bluetooth BackBeat Pros sounded the
best with musicality restored and a warmth replacing the hard midrange. The
Apple earpods were what you would expect: a good reason for buying decent
headphones for your Apple device.

  


The culprit, of course, was the $9 DAC provided by Apple for those folk who
will insist on owning headphones with a 3.5mm plug. The frustrating thing
was that as I was away from home I couldn’t try any other lightning to audio
DAC. I did have my Arcam MusicBoost case but as it is made for the thinner
iPhone 6 I didn’t fancy having my new iPhone 7 permanently wedged in it. Out
of desperation I did gingerly try to insert it but gave up when it became
clear it would end in disaster.

  


What I didn’t do (and still haven’t done) was try the above headphones with
the audio jack on my old iPhone 6 to see if it really did sound worse on the
iPhone 7 or if it was just a trick of the mind because I was expecting
better. Since arriving home I have tried my P7s with the Oppo HA 2 DAC and
the iPhone 7 and I am glad to say they were back to being absolutely
stunning. That’s a relief. I then tried them again with the little Apple
supplied DAC converter and although they weren’t as shockingly bad as my
first impression they still sounded seriously under par, and that also when
for my little plastic Porto Pros. Yet I still feel even the Porto Pros
sounded better with the old audio jack. It mostly came down to that sense of

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Mary Otten]

Hi John,
Your findings are interesting. I have not gotten around to actually using 
headphones with this little new adapter. I was intrigued, however, when I saw a 
post yesterday or the day before from a guy who says he was able to use his EKG 
to 40s with the little adapter with great effect. He said they really sounded 
good. Those phones typically require an extra  amp to be driven decently. I 
have a pair of a KGQ701 phones which are really nice, but if you don't have a 
preamp, forget it. So I thought I would try them but haven't done it yet with 
the little new adapter. I will be curious to see if I hear the same things that 
you did. I really liked the P7 even just with the output from the iPhone 6s. 
It's not perfect. But convenience can't be beat. I was hoping that the 
experience would be even better with this new phone and it's DAC, being better 
than the power straight out of the 6S. I guess I will have to get to it and see 
what I think.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:17 PM, John Gurd  wrote:
> 
> I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a weekend break
> with limited opportunities to play with it. 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, on this list there’s always someone who wants to know what the phone
> speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly, it’s the best
> sounding iPhone (that doesn’t have a Plus in its name) I’ve heard so far.
> Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice Over and
> books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don’t listen to music on
> a phone speaker and am always surprised when people give this aspect of
> audio serious consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where they got rid of the audio
> jack. So I took my trusty B P7 headphones, my ancient and cheap but
> much-loved (for sentimental reasons) Koss Porto Pros and my Bluetooth
> Plantronics BackBeat Pros and the lightening ear pods that ship with the
> device. No DAC except the little lightning to 3.5mm convertor supplied by
> Apple. 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my first impressions and I have to emphasis they were entirely
> subjective with no attempt at rigor. Imagine my shock when I tried my P7s
> and thought they sounded awful! The mid-range was thin with a hardness I
> never noticed before. The base was there but not particularly extended. The
> music sounded kind of flat with no real involvement. For the first time I
> felt I knew what was meant when components were described as unmusical. When
> I then tried my Koss Porto Pros whose basic design hasn’t changed since the
> 1980’s and which at one point retailed at around £25 I actually thought they
> sounded better but with the qualities described above still present, perhaps
> with more space and a warmer tone. The Bluetooth BackBeat Pros sounded the
> best with musicality restored and a warmth replacing the hard midrange. The
> Apple earpods were what you would expect: a good reason for buying decent
> headphones for your Apple device. 
> 
> 
> 
> The culprit, of course, was the $9 DAC provided by Apple for those folk who
> will insist on owning headphones with a 3.5mm plug. The frustrating thing
> was that as I was away from home I couldn’t try any other lightning to audio
> DAC. I did have my Arcam MusicBoost case but as it is made for the thinner
> iPhone 6 I didn’t fancy having my new iPhone 7 permanently wedged in it. Out
> of desperation I did gingerly try to insert it but gave up when it became
> clear it would end in disaster. 
> 
> 
> 
> What I didn’t do (and still haven’t done) was try the above headphones with
> the audio jack on my old iPhone 6 to see if it really did sound worse on the
> iPhone 7 or if it was just a trick of the mind because I was expecting
> better. Since arriving home I have tried my P7s with the Oppo HA 2 DAC and
> the iPhone 7 and I am glad to say they were back to being absolutely
> stunning. That’s a relief. I then tried them again with the little Apple
> supplied DAC converter and although they weren’t as shockingly bad as my
> first impression they still sounded seriously under par, and that also when
> for my little plastic Porto Pros. Yet I still feel even the Porto Pros
> sounded better with the old audio jack. It mostly came down to that sense of
> hardness and lack of musicality I felt I detected. 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, what do you expect for what amounts to a $9 DAC, I hear you say. Most
> people who have a cheap pair of headphones won’t notice or care and will
> just want them to work. I am quite sure that some headphones will even sound
> better for it. But as I don’t always want to carry a separate and cumbersome
> DAC around with me for casual listening I do wish Apple had spent just a
> little more on their convertor.
> 
> 
> 
> John Gurd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[John Gurd]

I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a weekend break
with limited opportunities to play with it. 

 

Well, on this list there’s always someone who wants to know what the phone
speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly, it’s the best
sounding iPhone (that doesn’t have a Plus in its name) I’ve heard so far.
Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice Over and
books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don’t listen to music on
a phone speaker and am always surprised when people give this aspect of
audio serious consideration.

 

Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where they got rid of the audio
jack. So I took my trusty B P7 headphones, my ancient and cheap but
much-loved (for sentimental reasons) Koss Porto Pros and my Bluetooth
Plantronics BackBeat Pros and the lightening ear pods that ship with the
device. No DAC except the little lightning to 3.5mm convertor supplied by
Apple. 

 

Here are my first impressions and I have to emphasis they were entirely
subjective with no attempt at rigor. Imagine my shock when I tried my P7s
and thought they sounded awful! The mid-range was thin with a hardness I
never noticed before. The base was there but not particularly extended. The
music sounded kind of flat with no real involvement. For the first time I
felt I knew what was meant when components were described as unmusical. When
I then tried my Koss Porto Pros whose basic design hasn’t changed since the
1980’s and which at one point retailed at around £25 I actually thought they
sounded better but with the qualities described above still present, perhaps
with more space and a warmer tone. The Bluetooth BackBeat Pros sounded the
best with musicality restored and a warmth replacing the hard midrange. The
Apple earpods were what you would expect: a good reason for buying decent
headphones for your Apple device. 

 

The culprit, of course, was the $9 DAC provided by Apple for those folk who
will insist on owning headphones with a 3.5mm plug. The frustrating thing
was that as I was away from home I couldn’t try any other lightning to audio
DAC. I did have my Arcam MusicBoost case but as it is made for the thinner
iPhone 6 I didn’t fancy having my new iPhone 7 permanently wedged in it. Out
of desperation I did gingerly try to insert it but gave up when it became
clear it would end in disaster. 

 

What I didn’t do (and still haven’t done) was try the above headphones with
the audio jack on my old iPhone 6 to see if it really did sound worse on the
iPhone 7 or if it was just a trick of the mind because I was expecting
better. Since arriving home I have tried my P7s with the Oppo HA 2 DAC and
the iPhone 7 and I am glad to say they were back to being absolutely
stunning. That’s a relief. I then tried them again with the little Apple
supplied DAC converter and although they weren’t as shockingly bad as my
first impression they still sounded seriously under par, and that also when
for my little plastic Porto Pros. Yet I still feel even the Porto Pros
sounded better with the old audio jack. It mostly came down to that sense of
hardness and lack of musicality I felt I detected. 

 

Well, what do you expect for what amounts to a $9 DAC, I hear you say. Most
people who have a cheap pair of headphones won’t notice or care and will
just want them to work. I am quite sure that some headphones will even sound
better for it. But as I don’t always want to carry a separate and cumbersome
DAC around with me for casual listening I do wish Apple had spent just a
little more on their convertor.

 

John Gurd

 

 

Re: The MM 550 was replaced with the very much superior PXC 550 Travel headphones. Re: Bluetooth Headset

[Dane Trethowan]

So do you actually have a pair of these cans?



On 21/09/2016 11:58 AM, Tim Noonan wrote:

Hmmm,

since sighted people can't see their ears, how do you think they use the touch 
surface?

They use touch.

They are totally usable by sighted and blind people.

Why would a blind person be less able to move their finger up or down or left 
or right than a sighted person?

They also sound exceptional in my view.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, though, the tuning app is not accessible, 
but I have found no need for its use.


On 21 Sep 2016, at 11:45 AM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:

I've just read a review on these and they would be an unmitigated disaster for 
anyone who is blind to use.

Firstly the review clearly states that the touch panels - these cans have two - 
need to be controlled with precise movement and mistakes are easily made so - 
if someone with sight is having trouble - just imagine what it would be like 
for someone who is totally blind?

The command activated by the gesture is voiced and the reviewer made mention of 
how frustrating he found it when he say gestured for the volume to be made 
louder only to discover that he'd skipped to the next track in his music 
collection, not too pleasant I would think.

The user also has to make gestures when answering incoming phone calls from the 
mobile, need i say any more.

Far superior? Well both these headphones and the MM550X have AptX for 
Bluetooth, I've had the MM550X and - whilst they have a few design faults and 
the noise cancelling isn't as good as it perhaps could be - I've not been 
disappointed.

Noice scance3lling is something I've never bothered about anyway myself.



On 6/09/2016 4:23 PM, Tim Noonan wrote:

I've been using the Sennheiser PXC 550 Bluetooth travel headphones for a month 
or so now (they have just been released) and they are amazingly good.

They supersede the MM 550 phones that have been out for a couple of years now 
with vastly improved noise reduction, superb audio quality, comfort and 
features.

The right ear cup has a touch surface for gestures for increasing and 
decreasing volume, skipping tracks, pausing, voice dial and voice-through 
facilities.

Connection is Bluetooth 4.2 with ApdX. they come with a detachable 3.5ml cable 
or they act as a sound card when connected to a computer via USB cable 
supporting 48k at 16 bits.

They use the same drivers as do the Momentum 2.0 Wireless and fold flat for 
travel. You turn them on by placing them on your head and when you fold the ear 
cups flat, they power off.

The multiple mics enable fantastic call quality for speaker and listener and 
you hear yourself and the caller as if you were both in the same room, making 
quiet comfortable conversation very easy and natural.

The Mics also do an excellent job picking up only your voice and ignoring the 
other voices and sounds around you.

The noise cancellation is considered very good overall, but not at par with the 
NR in the Bose QC35s.

An app for Android and iOS is available to tune the frequency response of the 
headphones, but this is not well designed and on IOS is not accessible. I 
haven't tested the app under Android.

The PXC 550 Sound is reported to be significantly superior to the Bose QC 35s 
and has tight but not overly intense bass. They have a frequency response up to 
23 KHZ  and excellent stereo separation and instrument isolation.

Some non-audiofile reviewers have said they prefer the more defined sound from 
the Momentum 2.0 wireless, others who have reviewed the PXC 550s more 
extensively rate the sound more highly. Sennheiser say that the Momentums have 
a more defined sound to be heard in city travel, whereas the noise cancellation 
improvements on the PXC 550 mean they can produce a flatter more accurate 
response  without outside noise interfering with their excellent sound 
reproduction.

I'm extremely particular about my sound, and these are magnificent for a wide 
range of music listening - but if you like over-emphasised bass, they probably 
won't be a good match for you.

Comfort is excellent and battery life ranges from 20-30 hours on a charge, 
depending on whether bluetooth is enabled.

They are high-end at $399 USD or around $625 AUD.

I haven't had opportunity to listen to the B & W P7s, but they have just 
announced a Bluetooth-capable version of these. Time will tell  which has the 
better sound, but for on-the-go listening plus Noise Cancellation, the PXC 550 are 
an excellent all-rounder option.

On 6 Sep 2016, at 3:05 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:









I received a pair of Sehheiser MM550X cans today and I’m suitably impressed 
though everything isn’t roses with this system, there’s nothing much to 
complain about really as I regard the gripes I have as minor irritations to be 
aware of so as such they will be left to last.

The MM550 is a comfortable closed headset which is of a lightweight but sturdy 
build and can be 

Re: Any good audiotutorials on Audasity?

[Rich De Steno]

I can't really follow the steps numbered below, but it looks like a 
rather simple project for Audacity, using the "track" menu to begin 
tracks at different points.  You also may benefit from "auto ducking" in 
the effects menu.  Yes, of course you can set markers in Audacity and 
work exclusively on that marked section.  You need to make sure the 
track says that it is selected by, if necessary, pressing Enter on it.  
You then mark off the section with the left and right square brackets.


Rich De Steno

On 10/18/2016 2:27 AM, Jesse Tregarthen wrote:

Hello,

I'm not sure about being able to do what you're talking about. I do believe 
there is an NVDA add-on for Audacity but I could be wrong. I can't seem to find 
it but I heard there was one.

I hope I helped a bit. Best,
Jesse Tregarthen

On 2016-10-15, at 1:36 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote:


HI listers, especially Audacity fans/users
Any good/comprehensive Audacity tutorials/audios to see if that's what I'm 
looking for in a recording program? I record 2 online radio programs, thus what 
I'm looking for is something like what I'll describe below:
1.-I have the main file to which I'll record my voice on which we'll call File1;
2.-Before I record, I'd like to start playing the Intro song of the program 
(it's in File2 so I open File2 and begin playing the song), after which I'd 
return to File1 so when I get to the point where I'd like to begin talking, 
speak, thus I'm wanting to all this come out on my Voice file which we'll call 
File1.
2.-Then I'm recording away, and in File3 there's another track which I'd like 
to lay, so I open File3, play, return to File1 and when I feel it's the right 
time, I record my voice in File1, coming out in File1 my Voice and the music.
In GoldWave this can't be done, thus needing to record the entire program 
first, then when I get to the spots where I'm wanting to mix in the audio 
music, via the Mix command, thus I wonder with Audacity this step and be 
avoided? Also does Audacity have commands to place beginning/ending markers to 
mark what needs to be deleted, or manipulated like with GoldWave? Also does 
Audacity have some sort of NVDA AddOn? Thanks for any info you guys might have 
on this subject.

--
Enviado desde mi lap
Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki
Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México

SV: Any good audiotutorials on Audasity?

[Brian Olesen]

Hi,
Audacity is a multitrack recorder, so you can simply import the files into
individual tracks. Then you can work on each track till you're satisfied.

Best regards
Brian

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] På vegne af Jesse
Tregarthen
Sendt: 18. oktober 2016 08:27
Til: PC Audio Discussion List 
Emne: Re: Any good audiotutorials on Audasity?

Hello,

I'm not sure about being able to do what you're talking about. I do believe
there is an NVDA add-on for Audacity but I could be wrong. I can't seem to
find it but I heard there was one.

I hope I helped a bit. Best,
Jesse Tregarthen

On 2016-10-15, at 1:36 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote:

> HI listers, especially Audacity fans/users Any good/comprehensive 
> Audacity tutorials/audios to see if that's what I'm looking for in a
recording program? I record 2 online radio programs, thus what I'm looking
for is something like what I'll describe below:
> 1.-I have the main file to which I'll record my voice on which we'll 
> call File1; 2.-Before I record, I'd like to start playing the Intro song
of the program (it's in File2 so I open File2 and begin playing the song),
after which I'd return to File1 so when I get to the point where I'd like to
begin talking, speak, thus I'm wanting to all this come out on my Voice file
which we'll call File1.
> 2.-Then I'm recording away, and in File3 there's another track which I'd
like to lay, so I open File3, play, return to File1 and when I feel it's the
right time, I record my voice in File1, coming out in File1 my Voice and the
music.
> In GoldWave this can't be done, thus needing to record the entire program
first, then when I get to the spots where I'm wanting to mix in the audio
music, via the Mix command, thus I wonder with Audacity this step and be
avoided? Also does Audacity have commands to place beginning/ending markers
to mark what needs to be deleted, or manipulated like with GoldWave? Also
does Audacity have some sort of NVDA AddOn? Thanks for any info you guys
might have on this subject.
> 
> --
> Enviado desde mi lap
> Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde 
> Tampico, Tamaulipas México
> 
> 

Re: Any good audiotutorials on Audasity?

[Jesse Tregarthen]

Hello,

I'm not sure about being able to do what you're talking about. I do believe 
there is an NVDA add-on for Audacity but I could be wrong. I can't seem to find 
it but I heard there was one.

I hope I helped a bit. Best,
Jesse Tregarthen

On 2016-10-15, at 1:36 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote:

> HI listers, especially Audacity fans/users
> Any good/comprehensive Audacity tutorials/audios to see if that's what I'm 
> looking for in a recording program? I record 2 online radio programs, thus 
> what I'm looking for is something like what I'll describe below:
> 1.-I have the main file to which I'll record my voice on which we'll call 
> File1;
> 2.-Before I record, I'd like to start playing the Intro song of the program 
> (it's in File2 so I open File2 and begin playing the song), after which I'd 
> return to File1 so when I get to the point where I'd like to begin talking, 
> speak, thus I'm wanting to all this come out on my Voice file which we'll 
> call File1.
> 2.-Then I'm recording away, and in File3 there's another track which I'd like 
> to lay, so I open File3, play, return to File1 and when I feel it's the right 
> time, I record my voice in File1, coming out in File1 my Voice and the music.
> In GoldWave this can't be done, thus needing to record the entire program 
> first, then when I get to the spots where I'm wanting to mix in the audio 
> music, via the Mix command, thus I wonder with Audacity this step and be 
> avoided? Also does Audacity have commands to place beginning/ending markers 
> to mark what needs to be deleted, or manipulated like with GoldWave? Also 
> does Audacity have some sort of NVDA AddOn? Thanks for any info you guys 
> might have on this subject.
> 
> -- 
> Enviado desde mi lap
> Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki
> Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México
> 
>