Re: Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners
Folks, this is off topic. Please, oh please, keep your messages on topic. Jeff List Owner ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners
I had the same experience. I didn't know about this command, but I guess I don't need to know if it isn't going to work. I'm running OE with JAWS 6.0. It could be JAWS 6 as I've found a few other things that aren't working quite right. Kris Hickerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Fazil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners Hi, Chris. I'm using OE6 and f3 is not working for me. When I push it, jaws says the search string is not found. Thanks! - Original Message - From: Chris Skarstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 8:11 PM Subject: Re: Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners Hi Kevin You're using Eudora, so if you want to find the address of the person who sends a message to this or any other list, or to you privately, simply go to the top of your message, and the headers will tell you all kinds of information. look for the line that says, x-sender, and then you should be able to figure out the e-mail address from there. Outlook express users can simply press the f3 key and you can read the headers that way. Hope this helps folks, and many apologies for continuing what has been flagged an off topic thread. But I felt the information was important so that people would know better ways of replying privately. At 05:54 PM 2/1/2005, you wrote: Hi, I tried to locate the email addres to reply directly and could not find it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:21 PM 2/1/2005 -0800, you wrote: Remember folks, if you offer to send something to list members, *always* remind people to contact you privately. And, if you want what is being offered *always* contact that person privately. Do not write to the list and say something like: Please send it to me too. I've had to reject 3 such messages already today. Jeff List Owner ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners
In Outlook Express, try CTRL-F3 instead of just F3. - Original Message - From: Kristine Hickerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: Re: Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners I had the same experience. I didn't know about this command, but I guess I don't need to know if it isn't going to work. I'm running OE with JAWS 6.0. It could be JAWS 6 as I've found a few other things that aren't working quite right. Kris Hickerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Fazil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners Hi, Chris. I'm using OE6 and f3 is not working for me. When I push it, jaws says the search string is not found. Thanks! - Original Message - From: Chris Skarstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 8:11 PM Subject: Re: Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners Hi Kevin You're using Eudora, so if you want to find the address of the person who sends a message to this or any other list, or to you privately, simply go to the top of your message, and the headers will tell you all kinds of information. look for the line that says, x-sender, and then you should be able to figure out the e-mail address from there. Outlook express users can simply press the f3 key and you can read the headers that way. Hope this helps folks, and many apologies for continuing what has been flagged an off topic thread. But I felt the information was important so that people would know better ways of replying privately. At 05:54 PM 2/1/2005, you wrote: Hi, I tried to locate the email addres to reply directly and could not find it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:21 PM 2/1/2005 -0800, you wrote: Remember folks, if you offer to send something to list members, *always* remind people to contact you privately. And, if you want what is being offered *always* contact that person privately. Do not write to the list and say something like: Please send it to me too. I've had to reject 3 such messages already today. Jeff List Owner ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners
if you are searching for text in the body of an email then you use control+shift+f Robert Doc Wright http://www.wrightplaceinc.net Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy. ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessible Tuners
dennis, please send it to me. my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] thanks. - Original Message - From: Denis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 5:42 AM Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners Hi folks, I don't know if it's gonna be useful to anybody, but I've got a tiny software guitar tuner. It's 100% accessible, plays strings singly or in chords, and has a looping option. I can email it to anybody, if you are interested. Best regards, Denis ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners
Remember folks, if you offer to send something to list members, *always* remind people to contact you privately. And, if you want what is being offered *always* contact that person privately. Do not write to the list and say something like: Please send it to me too. I've had to reject 3 such messages already today. Jeff List Owner ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessible Tuners
Hi, Please send it to me at; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks. At 02:42 PM 1/31/2005 +0300, you wrote: Hi folks, I don't know if it's gonna be useful to anybody, but I've got a tiny software guitar tuner. It's 100% accessible, plays strings singly or in chords, and has a looping option. I can email it to anybody, if you are interested. Best regards, Denis ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners
Hi, I tried to locate the email addres to reply directly and could not find it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:21 PM 2/1/2005 -0800, you wrote: Remember folks, if you offer to send something to list members, *always* remind people to contact you privately. And, if you want what is being offered *always* contact that person privately. Do not write to the list and say something like: Please send it to me too. I've had to reject 3 such messages already today. Jeff List Owner ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Admin Reminder Re: Accessible Tuners
Hi Kevin You're using Eudora, so if you want to find the address of the person who sends a message to this or any other list, or to you privately, simply go to the top of your message, and the headers will tell you all kinds of information. look for the line that says, x-sender, and then you should be able to figure out the e-mail address from there. Outlook express users can simply press the f3 key and you can read the headers that way. Hope this helps folks, and many apologies for continuing what has been flagged an off topic thread. But I felt the information was important so that people would know better ways of replying privately. At 05:54 PM 2/1/2005, you wrote: Hi, I tried to locate the email addres to reply directly and could not find it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:21 PM 2/1/2005 -0800, you wrote: Remember folks, if you offer to send something to list members, *always* remind people to contact you privately. And, if you want what is being offered *always* contact that person privately. Do not write to the list and say something like: Please send it to me too. I've had to reject 3 such messages already today. Jeff List Owner ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessible Tuners
I have played with it for a few minutes with dolphinuk supernova in the virtual cursor mode and it seems to be accessible. of course when needed i use the tuning unit which i have. i'll be happy to help in tuning matters. kind regards: harry fimit mabpt - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:29 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners Hi, I have just downloaded the program and given a bit of spare time today will have a fiddle with it and report back to the list.. Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 2:48 AM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners it has audio for the tones being tuned, but no way of reading the trace, but very bold display black and white. even with virtually no sight in one non artificial eye i can use it. haven't tried the latest software with a screen reader, but i think the screen display graphic could be trained. harry - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:34 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners So does this work with a normal audio input , and how does one tell if the dots are moving with a screen reader?? Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:38 PM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I HAVE used a free download piece of software which is the same format as a very expensive german piano tuning machine which i use and encouraged my piano tuning students to buy when i was a lecturer in that field. it has a free version. my son has downloaded it to his pda and is able to use it for tuning pianos. it is called tunelab. i'm not sure of the url. but i can get it from my son if you would like. it uses a dotted line like a strobe. when it moves right the note is sharp, and when left the note is flat. the note is perfectly in tune when the dots are stationary. 19 different temperaments, stretching etc. kind regards: harry - Original Message - From: Jim Portillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Accessible Tuners Hi everyone, I'm throwing this question out there. Does anyone know if there are any accessible tuners out there used for helping to tune guitars? I'm playing a lot more these days and it would be nice to have one of those electronic tuner that will tell me if each string is in tune. I know for the regular ones, they have some sort of needle that moves if one is sharp or flat. I just didn't know if anyone knew of a good one that could be used by a blind person. If not, well...I guess it's time to start working on one. LOL Jim PS. I guess this ruins the old stereotype that all blind people have perfect pitch, eh? ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessible Tuners
played around with the tunelab a little more. alt+d to produce audio tone. left and right arrows to change the note. page up and down to go up or down an octave. p to go to the properties menu and then 1 to change to teh fundimental being played as audio note. it can be used as a guitar tuner in this way using the left and right arrows to go the tone required hth harry - Original Message - From: Harry Lyddall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:58 AM Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I have played with it for a few minutes with dolphinuk supernova in the virtual cursor mode and it seems to be accessible. of course when needed i use the tuning unit which i have. i'll be happy to help in tuning matters. kind regards: harry fimit mabpt - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:29 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners Hi, I have just downloaded the program and given a bit of spare time today will have a fiddle with it and report back to the list.. Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 2:48 AM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners it has audio for the tones being tuned, but no way of reading the trace, but very bold display black and white. even with virtually no sight in one non artificial eye i can use it. haven't tried the latest software with a screen reader, but i think the screen display graphic could be trained. harry - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:34 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners So does this work with a normal audio input , and how does one tell if the dots are moving with a screen reader?? Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:38 PM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I HAVE used a free download piece of software which is the same format as a very expensive german piano tuning machine which i use and encouraged my piano tuning students to buy when i was a lecturer in that field. it has a free version. my son has downloaded it to his pda and is able to use it for tuning pianos. it is called tunelab. i'm not sure of the url. but i can get it from my son if you would like. it uses a dotted line like a strobe. when it moves right the note is sharp, and when left the note is flat. the note is perfectly in tune when the dots are stationary. 19 different temperaments, stretching etc. kind regards: harry - Original Message - From: Jim Portillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Accessible Tuners Hi everyone, I'm throwing this question out there. Does anyone know if there are any accessible tuners out there used for helping to tune guitars? I'm playing a lot more these days and it would be nice to have one of those electronic tuner that will tell me if each string is in tune. I know for the regular ones, they have some sort of needle that moves if one is sharp or flat. I just didn't know if anyone knew of a good one that could be used by a blind person. If not, well...I guess it's time to start working on one. LOL Jim PS. I guess this ruins the old stereotype that all blind people have perfect pitch, eh? ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio
Re: Accessible Tuners
Harry, I hope this thing is free. If so, from where can it be downloaded? Don roberts - Original Message - From: Harry Lyddall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:20 AM Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners played around with the tunelab a little more. alt+d to produce audio tone. left and right arrows to change the note. page up and down to go up or down an octave. p to go to the properties menu and then 1 to change to teh fundimental being played as audio note. it can be used as a guitar tuner in this way using the left and right arrows to go the tone required hth harry - Original Message - From: Harry Lyddall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:58 AM Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I have played with it for a few minutes with dolphinuk supernova in the virtual cursor mode and it seems to be accessible. of course when needed i use the tuning unit which i have. i'll be happy to help in tuning matters. kind regards: harry fimit mabpt - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:29 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners Hi, I have just downloaded the program and given a bit of spare time today will have a fiddle with it and report back to the list.. Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 2:48 AM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners it has audio for the tones being tuned, but no way of reading the trace, but very bold display black and white. even with virtually no sight in one non artificial eye i can use it. haven't tried the latest software with a screen reader, but i think the screen display graphic could be trained. harry - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:34 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners So does this work with a normal audio input , and how does one tell if the dots are moving with a screen reader?? Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:38 PM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I HAVE used a free download piece of software which is the same format as a very expensive german piano tuning machine which i use and encouraged my piano tuning students to buy when i was a lecturer in that field. it has a free version. my son has downloaded it to his pda and is able to use it for tuning pianos. it is called tunelab. i'm not sure of the url. but i can get it from my son if you would like. it uses a dotted line like a strobe. when it moves right the note is sharp, and when left the note is flat. the note is perfectly in tune when the dots are stationary. 19 different temperaments, stretching etc. kind regards: harry - Original Message - From: Jim Portillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Accessible Tuners Hi everyone, I'm throwing this question out there. Does anyone know if there are any accessible tuners out there used for helping to tune guitars? I'm playing a lot more these days and it would be nice to have one of those electronic tuner that will tell me if each string is in tune. I know for the regular ones, they have some sort of needle that moves if one is sharp or flat. I just didn't know if anyone knew of a good one that could be used by a blind person. If not, well...I guess it's time to start working on one. LOL Jim PS. I guess this ruins the old stereotype that all blind people have perfect pitch, eh? ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: Accessible Tuners
Ok. Nå ligger det en teks om deg der. Bare kom med forslag til endringer dersom du vil det. Aage. - Original Message - From: Harry Lyddall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:20 PM Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners played around with the tunelab a little more. alt+d to produce audio tone. left and right arrows to change the note. page up and down to go up or down an octave. p to go to the properties menu and then 1 to change to teh fundimental being played as audio note. it can be used as a guitar tuner in this way using the left and right arrows to go the tone required hth harry - Original Message - From: Harry Lyddall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:58 AM Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I have played with it for a few minutes with dolphinuk supernova in the virtual cursor mode and it seems to be accessible. of course when needed i use the tuning unit which i have. i'll be happy to help in tuning matters. kind regards: harry fimit mabpt - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:29 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners Hi, I have just downloaded the program and given a bit of spare time today will have a fiddle with it and report back to the list.. Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 2:48 AM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners it has audio for the tones being tuned, but no way of reading the trace, but very bold display black and white. even with virtually no sight in one non artificial eye i can use it. haven't tried the latest software with a screen reader, but i think the screen display graphic could be trained. harry - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:34 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners So does this work with a normal audio input , and how does one tell if the dots are moving with a screen reader?? Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:38 PM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I HAVE used a free download piece of software which is the same format as a very expensive german piano tuning machine which i use and encouraged my piano tuning students to buy when i was a lecturer in that field. it has a free version. my son has downloaded it to his pda and is able to use it for tuning pianos. it is called tunelab. i'm not sure of the url. but i can get it from my son if you would like. it uses a dotted line like a strobe. when it moves right the note is sharp, and when left the note is flat. the note is perfectly in tune when the dots are stationary. 19 different temperaments, stretching etc. kind regards: harry - Original Message - From: Jim Portillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Accessible Tuners Hi everyone, I'm throwing this question out there. Does anyone know if there are any accessible tuners out there used for helping to tune guitars? I'm playing a lot more these days and it would be nice to have one of those electronic tuner that will tell me if each string is in tune. I know for the regular ones, they have some sort of needle that moves if one is sharp or flat. I just didn't know if anyone knew of a good one that could be used by a blind person. If not, well...I guess it's time to start working on one. LOL Jim PS. I guess this ruins the old stereotype that all blind people have perfect pitch, eh? ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives
RE: Accessible Tuners
wot the !! Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aage Auby Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:32 AM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners Ok. Nå ligger det en teks om deg der. Bare kom med forslag til endringer dersom du vil det. Aage. - Original Message - From: Harry Lyddall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:20 PM Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners played around with the tunelab a little more. alt+d to produce audio tone. left and right arrows to change the note. page up and down to go up or down an octave. p to go to the properties menu and then 1 to change to teh fundimental being played as audio note. it can be used as a guitar tuner in this way using the left and right arrows to go the tone required hth harry - Original Message - From: Harry Lyddall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:58 AM Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I have played with it for a few minutes with dolphinuk supernova in the virtual cursor mode and it seems to be accessible. of course when needed i use the tuning unit which i have. i'll be happy to help in tuning matters. kind regards: harry fimit mabpt - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:29 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners Hi, I have just downloaded the program and given a bit of spare time today will have a fiddle with it and report back to the list.. Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 2:48 AM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners it has audio for the tones being tuned, but no way of reading the trace, but very bold display black and white. even with virtually no sight in one non artificial eye i can use it. haven't tried the latest software with a screen reader, but i think the screen display graphic could be trained. harry - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:34 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners So does this work with a normal audio input , and how does one tell if the dots are moving with a screen reader?? Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:38 PM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I HAVE used a free download piece of software which is the same format as a very expensive german piano tuning machine which i use and encouraged my piano tuning students to buy when i was a lecturer in that field. it has a free version. my son has downloaded it to his pda and is able to use it for tuning pianos. it is called tunelab. i'm not sure of the url. but i can get it from my son if you would like. it uses a dotted line like a strobe. when it moves right the note is sharp, and when left the note is flat. the note is perfectly in tune when the dots are stationary. 19 different temperaments, stretching etc. kind regards: harry - Original Message - From: Jim Portillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Accessible Tuners Hi everyone, I'm throwing this question out there. Does anyone know if there are any accessible tuners out there used for helping to tune guitars? I'm playing a lot more these days and it would be nice to have one of those electronic tuner that will tell me if each string is in tune. I know for the regular ones, they have some sort of needle that moves if one is sharp or flat. I just didn't know if anyone knew of a good one that could be used by a blind person. If not, well...I guess it's time to start working on one. LOL Jim PS. I guess this ruins the old stereotype that all blind people have perfect pitch, eh? ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: Accessible Tuners
Check this out, Subject: String Master Robotic Guitar Tuner Wow, a guitar tuner that even turns the tuning pegs!! Check it out at: http://www.actiontuners.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessible Tuners
Another tuner might be the String Master Robotic Tuner. I haven't tried this one yet, but there was some discussion on the MIDI-Mag site about it. You can go to http://www.actiontuners.com/ Supposedly this tuner will mount on the tuning key and use a motor mechanism to tune the string. Blessings, Brian - Original Message - From: Tom Kaufman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners Okay..and I was trying to do it..using my fingernail! No wonder it wouldn't work! I still believe I probably need someone who is more mechanically inclined than myself! But thanks for sending along the info Don. Tom Kaufman ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessible Tuners
Hi folks, I don't know if it's gonna be useful to anybody, but I've got a tiny software guitar tuner. It's 100% accessible, plays strings singly or in chords, and has a looping option. I can email it to anybody, if you are interested. Best regards, Denis ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessible Tuners
it has audio for the tones being tuned, but no way of reading the trace, but very bold display black and white. even with virtually no sight in one non artificial eye i can use it. haven't tried the latest software with a screen reader, but i think the screen display graphic could be trained. harry - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:34 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners So does this work with a normal audio input , and how does one tell if the dots are moving with a screen reader?? Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:38 PM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I HAVE used a free download piece of software which is the same format as a very expensive german piano tuning machine which i use and encouraged my piano tuning students to buy when i was a lecturer in that field. it has a free version. my son has downloaded it to his pda and is able to use it for tuning pianos. it is called tunelab. i'm not sure of the url. but i can get it from my son if you would like. it uses a dotted line like a strobe. when it moves right the note is sharp, and when left the note is flat. the note is perfectly in tune when the dots are stationary. 19 different temperaments, stretching etc. kind regards: harry - Original Message - From: Jim Portillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Accessible Tuners Hi everyone, I'm throwing this question out there. Does anyone know if there are any accessible tuners out there used for helping to tune guitars? I'm playing a lot more these days and it would be nice to have one of those electronic tuner that will tell me if each string is in tune. I know for the regular ones, they have some sort of needle that moves if one is sharp or flat. I just didn't know if anyone knew of a good one that could be used by a blind person. If not, well...I guess it's time to start working on one. LOL Jim PS. I guess this ruins the old stereotype that all blind people have perfect pitch, eh? ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Accessible Tuners
Hi, I have just downloaded the program and given a bit of spare time today will have a fiddle with it and report back to the list.. Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 2:48 AM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners it has audio for the tones being tuned, but no way of reading the trace, but very bold display black and white. even with virtually no sight in one non artificial eye i can use it. haven't tried the latest software with a screen reader, but i think the screen display graphic could be trained. harry - Original Message - From: Blind Melon Chitlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 10:34 PM Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners So does this work with a normal audio input , and how does one tell if the dots are moving with a screen reader?? Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:38 PM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I HAVE used a free download piece of software which is the same format as a very expensive german piano tuning machine which i use and encouraged my piano tuning students to buy when i was a lecturer in that field. it has a free version. my son has downloaded it to his pda and is able to use it for tuning pianos. it is called tunelab. i'm not sure of the url. but i can get it from my son if you would like. it uses a dotted line like a strobe. when it moves right the note is sharp, and when left the note is flat. the note is perfectly in tune when the dots are stationary. 19 different temperaments, stretching etc. kind regards: harry - Original Message - From: Jim Portillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Accessible Tuners Hi everyone, I'm throwing this question out there. Does anyone know if there are any accessible tuners out there used for helping to tune guitars? I'm playing a lot more these days and it would be nice to have one of those electronic tuner that will tell me if each string is in tune. I know for the regular ones, they have some sort of needle that moves if one is sharp or flat. I just didn't know if anyone knew of a good one that could be used by a blind person. If not, well...I guess it's time to start working on one. LOL Jim PS. I guess this ruins the old stereotype that all blind people have perfect pitch, eh? ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessible Tuners
Hi Mate, I would suggest , if the tuner is on a computer, even if it is accessible, how practical is it? If we are talking about going out to gig's,?Like you said in a earlier post, a tuning fork fits in a pocket. LOL If we are talking electric guitar, there is head phones, with a built in amp, that will let you hear the guitar, I don't know to what volume, they seem to be hard to find though, it's mostly steel players that seem to use them at all but then sighted people can use those quick tune things that either show a green light, or a red one, or if it's away off no light: or so I am told. LOL If anyone is interested, I can give them a couple of places to look for a amp-head set. Please support your local musicians [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessible Tuners
Jim, interesting question, Had the same one myself for a long time. The only thing I came up with was a tuning fork, then tune out the waves in relative strings and the octaves. not as handy as a electronic, and not as easy, especially in a noisy place, and no I don't have perfect pitch either. LOL ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Accessible Tuners
Hi, I use a tuning fork,,... no batteries.. and fits rite in your pocket..lol.. Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Portillo Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 12:32 PM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Accessible Tuners Hi everyone, I'm throwing this question out there. Does anyone know if there are any accessible tuners out there used for helping to tune guitars? I'm playing a lot more these days and it would be nice to have one of those electronic tuner that will tell me if each string is in tune. I know for the regular ones, they have some sort of needle that moves if one is sharp or flat. I just didn't know if anyone knew of a good one that could be used by a blind person. If not, well...I guess it's time to start working on one. LOL Jim PS. I guess this ruins the old stereotype that all blind people have perfect pitch, eh? ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accessible Tuners
I HAVE used a free download piece of software which is the same format as a very expensive german piano tuning machine which i use and encouraged my piano tuning students to buy when i was a lecturer in that field. it has a free version. my son has downloaded it to his pda and is able to use it for tuning pianos. it is called tunelab. i'm not sure of the url. but i can get it from my son if you would like. it uses a dotted line like a strobe. when it moves right the note is sharp, and when left the note is flat. the note is perfectly in tune when the dots are stationary. 19 different temperaments, stretching etc. kind regards: harry - Original Message - From: Jim Portillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Accessible Tuners Hi everyone, I'm throwing this question out there. Does anyone know if there are any accessible tuners out there used for helping to tune guitars? I'm playing a lot more these days and it would be nice to have one of those electronic tuner that will tell me if each string is in tune. I know for the regular ones, they have some sort of needle that moves if one is sharp or flat. I just didn't know if anyone knew of a good one that could be used by a blind person. If not, well...I guess it's time to start working on one. LOL Jim PS. I guess this ruins the old stereotype that all blind people have perfect pitch, eh? ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Accessible Tuners
So does this work with a normal audio input , and how does one tell if the dots are moving with a screen reader?? Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:38 PM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I HAVE used a free download piece of software which is the same format as a very expensive german piano tuning machine which i use and encouraged my piano tuning students to buy when i was a lecturer in that field. it has a free version. my son has downloaded it to his pda and is able to use it for tuning pianos. it is called tunelab. i'm not sure of the url. but i can get it from my son if you would like. it uses a dotted line like a strobe. when it moves right the note is sharp, and when left the note is flat. the note is perfectly in tune when the dots are stationary. 19 different temperaments, stretching etc. kind regards: harry - Original Message - From: Jim Portillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Accessible Tuners Hi everyone, I'm throwing this question out there. Does anyone know if there are any accessible tuners out there used for helping to tune guitars? I'm playing a lot more these days and it would be nice to have one of those electronic tuner that will tell me if each string is in tune. I know for the regular ones, they have some sort of needle that moves if one is sharp or flat. I just didn't know if anyone knew of a good one that could be used by a blind person. If not, well...I guess it's time to start working on one. LOL Jim PS. I guess this ruins the old stereotype that all blind people have perfect pitch, eh? ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Accessible Tuners
Hi, here is the link to dl the file http://www.tunelab-world.com/tl97306.exe Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blind Melon Chitlin Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 2:34 PM To: 'PC audio discussion list. ' Subject: RE: Accessible Tuners So does this work with a normal audio input , and how does one tell if the dots are moving with a screen reader?? Cheers, James Beyond the black stump, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Lyddall Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:38 PM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: Re: Accessible Tuners I HAVE used a free download piece of software which is the same format as a very expensive german piano tuning machine which i use and encouraged my piano tuning students to buy when i was a lecturer in that field. it has a free version. my son has downloaded it to his pda and is able to use it for tuning pianos. it is called tunelab. i'm not sure of the url. but i can get it from my son if you would like. it uses a dotted line like a strobe. when it moves right the note is sharp, and when left the note is flat. the note is perfectly in tune when the dots are stationary. 19 different temperaments, stretching etc. kind regards: harry - Original Message - From: Jim Portillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PC audio discussion list. Pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Accessible Tuners Hi everyone, I'm throwing this question out there. Does anyone know if there are any accessible tuners out there used for helping to tune guitars? I'm playing a lot more these days and it would be nice to have one of those electronic tuner that will tell me if each string is in tune. I know for the regular ones, they have some sort of needle that moves if one is sharp or flat. I just didn't know if anyone knew of a good one that could be used by a blind person. If not, well...I guess it's time to start working on one. LOL Jim PS. I guess this ruins the old stereotype that all blind people have perfect pitch, eh? ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
