Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[mike wilson]

> On 06 November 2019 at 10:36 Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>  As for Google, - its penetration is too big.
> >>>
> >>> Insert your pun here.
> >>
> >> Not sure it's big enough.
> >
> >...it's what you do with it.
> 
> And your point is?

Blunt.

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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[lrc]

On November 5, 2019 12:32:55 PM PST, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>
>For many years, I've been using 
>At my home, so far, we have no "smart"/IOT appliances (except for 
>smartphones), not even Alexa. But I don't know how far we are 
>from the day when the "dumb" appliances (that just do their original 
>function, e.g. keep things cold, wash your clothes or show TV
>broadcast) 
>are no longer produced.
>Do I want my pot texting my kettle?

How about a pot calling a kettle black listed?

>
>(A scare thought: What if the next generation of DSLRs will start 
>"sexting" Smart TVs something akin Cotty's camera porn? ;-) Brrr! )
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>Igor
>
>
>
>Larry Colen Mon, 04 Nov 2019 13:52:32 -0800 wrote:
>
>> On Nov 4, 2019, at 1:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
>>
>> Well updog.co seems to think it's a URL that contains their domain. 
>They
>> advised me of a work around.  Unfortunately the easiest way to
>implement
>> would cost me money to implement my own domain.   Which could then
>still be
>> blacklisted by google.
>
>
>I’ve been getting my domain through gandi
>https://www.gandi.net/en
>for many years.  It costs me on the order of $20/year
>
>https://www.gandi.net/en/domain

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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[Steve Cottrell]

 As for Google, - its penetration is too big.
>>>
>>> Insert your pun here.
>>
>> Not sure it's big enough.
>
>...it's what you do with it.

And your point is?


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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[P. J. Alling]

I don't think it needs further expansion.

On 11/5/2019 4:01 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

As for Google, - its penetration is too big.

Insert your pun here.



--
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America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
- P.J. O'Rourke


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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[ann sanfedele]

LOL!

On 11/5/2019 4:01 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

As for Google, - its penetration is too big.

Insert your pun here.




--
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https://www.cafepress.com/annsanstuff
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/annsan



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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 05.11.19 um 22:24 schrieb mike wilson:



On 05 November 2019 at 21:01 Steve Cottrell  wrote:




As for Google, - its penetration is too big.


Insert your pun here.


Not sure it's big enough.


...it's what you do with it.


--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de

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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[mike wilson]

> On 05 November 2019 at 21:01 Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >As for Google, - its penetration is too big.
> 
> Insert your pun here.

Not sure it's big enough.

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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[Steve Cottrell]

>As for Google, - its penetration is too big.

Insert your pun here.


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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[Igor PDML-StR]

For many years, I've been using name.com for registering my own domain 
name. It costs some $11-14 per year for .org and .com domains.


P.J.: if it is the spamvertised URL that is the culprit (which I am not 
that sure about, as most typical blocklists do not take that into 
account), then with your own domain, you should not get into that trouble.


In general, with big giants, like Google, Yahoo, and some ISPs, it is 
often hard to get a resolution quickly (or at all), - as they are all 
behind thick walls, and choose what they want to do. Over almost 
a quarter-of-century, I've been dealing with such incidents for Komkon 
servers (Komkon hosts PUG). Some are easier to deal with than others.
Out of some 15-20 incidents, only about 2-4 had a reason, the rest were 
false positives.


The worst case was some 10 years ago, when one of the major antivirus (AV) 
makers (used by many malware-detecting scanners)  added a malware 
signature that was matching a relatively popular programming library used 
by software developers. As a result, some benign program available for 
download from one of the sites hosted by Komkon was flagged by all those 
anti-malware services. It took some time for that AV maker to fix that 
problem in the engine, and then it took some additional time for that to 
propagate to all different scanners and BL's.


While some of those scanners have whitelisted us manually upon contact, 
the rest were unresponsive, so it took up to 2 weeks to mitigate that 
situation. The worst part was that our own upstream ISP blocked our IP 
from the Internet to prevent the distribution of that presumed malware.
IIRC, that complicated communication with all those BLs', as some of them 
wanted to receive communication from the listed IP (to confirm IP 
ownership), or something like that.



As for Google, - its penetration is too big. And we, being a part of the 
their product (as opposed to being customers), have practically no 
power over them.
At my home, so far, we have no "smart"/IOT appliances (except for 
smartphones), not even Alexa. But I don't know how far we are 
from the day when the "dumb" appliances (that just do their original 
function, e.g. keep things cold, wash your clothes or show TV broadcast) 
are no longer produced.

Do I want my pot texting my kettle?

(A scare thought: What if the next generation of DSLRs will start 
"sexting" Smart TVs something akin Cotty's camera porn? ;-) Brrr! )



Cheers,

Igor



Larry Colen Mon, 04 Nov 2019 13:52:32 -0800 wrote:


On Nov 4, 2019, at 1:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

Well updog.co seems to think it's a URL that contains their domain.  They
advised me of a work around.  Unfortunately the easiest way to implement
would cost me money to implement my own domain.   Which could then still be
blacklisted by google.



I’ve been getting my domain through gandi
https://www.gandi.net/en
for many years.  It costs me on the order of $20/year

https://www.gandi.net/en/domain

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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[Larry Colen]

> On Nov 4, 2019, at 1:06 PM, P. J. Alling  wrote:
> 
> Well updog.co seems to think it's a URL that contains their domain.  They 
> advised me of a work around.  Unfortunately the easiest way to implement 
> would cost me money to implement my own domain.   Which could then still be 
> blacklisted by google.

I’ve been getting my domain through gandi
https://www.gandi.net/en
for many years.  It costs me on the order of $20/year

https://www.gandi.net/en/domain

> 
> On 11/4/2019 1:50 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
>>> On Nov 4, 2019, at 9:26 AM, John  wrote:
>>> 
>>> What happens with Earthlink & PDML is one of Earthlink's customers SPAMS 
>>> mailing lists with announcements for some act appearing at a nightclub in 
>>> Las Vegas and whatever server his message goes through down in Atlanta gets 
>>> blacklisted by the SPAM blocking service PDML's host uses.
>>> 
>>> It's *always* the same Earthlink LOSER and it appears to only trigger the 
>>> one SPAM blocking service used by PDML's host.
>>> 
>>> ... and since the guy seems to be a one-person, hole-in-the-wall 
>>> "advertising" agency, it happens every time he sends out a SPAM BLAST. If I 
>>> submit to PDML using my Earthlink account and happen to catch the same 
>>> server down in Atlanta that he's most recently gotten blacklisted, my posts 
>>> bounce from PDML.
>>> 
>>> Anyway ... to make a long story even longer, I figured all this out from 
>>> reading the bounce messages I got from PDML, which contain a link to the 
>>> offending SPAM with full headers.
>>> 
>>> Your hosting service Updog(dot)co should be able to do the same and figure 
>>> out what's got Google blocking them. They may be able to get themselves 
>>> UN-blocked.
>>> 
>>> FWIW, if you "google" Updog(dot)co, their website comes up & google doesn't 
>>> appear to give any warnings.
>> The warning I get is for pdml.updog so it is possible that it was your 
>> account that was hacked with a phishing site on it, or a spammer just used 
>> your email as the return.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Larry Colen
>> l...@red4est.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> America wasn't founded so that we could all be better.
> America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
>- P.J. O'Rourke
> 
> 
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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[P. J. Alling]

Well updog.co seems to think it's a URL that contains their domain.  
They advised me of a work around.  Unfortunately the easiest way to 
implement would cost me money to implement my own domain.   Which could 
then still be blacklisted by google.


On 11/4/2019 1:50 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

On Nov 4, 2019, at 9:26 AM, John  wrote:

What happens with Earthlink & PDML is one of Earthlink's customers SPAMS 
mailing lists with announcements for some act appearing at a nightclub in Las Vegas 
and whatever server his message goes through down in Atlanta gets blacklisted by 
the SPAM blocking service PDML's host uses.

It's *always* the same Earthlink LOSER and it appears to only trigger the one 
SPAM blocking service used by PDML's host.

... and since the guy seems to be a one-person, hole-in-the-wall "advertising" 
agency, it happens every time he sends out a SPAM BLAST. If I submit to PDML using my 
Earthlink account and happen to catch the same server down in Atlanta that he's most 
recently gotten blacklisted, my posts bounce from PDML.

Anyway ... to make a long story even longer, I figured all this out from 
reading the bounce messages I got from PDML, which contain a link to the 
offending SPAM with full headers.

Your hosting service Updog(dot)co should be able to do the same and figure out 
what's got Google blocking them. They may be able to get themselves UN-blocked.

FWIW, if you "google" Updog(dot)co, their website comes up & google doesn't 
appear to give any warnings.

The warning I get is for pdml.updog so it is possible that it was your account 
that was hacked with a phishing site on it, or a spammer just used your email 
as the return.



--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com





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America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
- P.J. O'Rourke


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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[Larry Colen]

> On Nov 4, 2019, at 9:26 AM, John  wrote:
> 
> What happens with Earthlink & PDML is one of Earthlink's customers SPAMS 
> mailing lists with announcements for some act appearing at a nightclub in Las 
> Vegas and whatever server his message goes through down in Atlanta gets 
> blacklisted by the SPAM blocking service PDML's host uses.
> 
> It's *always* the same Earthlink LOSER and it appears to only trigger the one 
> SPAM blocking service used by PDML's host.
> 
> ... and since the guy seems to be a one-person, hole-in-the-wall 
> "advertising" agency, it happens every time he sends out a SPAM BLAST. If I 
> submit to PDML using my Earthlink account and happen to catch the same server 
> down in Atlanta that he's most recently gotten blacklisted, my posts bounce 
> from PDML.
> 
> Anyway ... to make a long story even longer, I figured all this out from 
> reading the bounce messages I got from PDML, which contain a link to the 
> offending SPAM with full headers.
> 
> Your hosting service Updog(dot)co should be able to do the same and figure 
> out what's got Google blocking them. They may be able to get themselves 
> UN-blocked.
> 
> FWIW, if you "google" Updog(dot)co, their website comes up & google doesn't 
> appear to give any warnings.

The warning I get is for pdml.updog so it is possible that it was your account 
that was hacked with a phishing site on it, or a spammer just used your email 
as the return.



--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com




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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[John]

What happens with Earthlink & PDML is one of Earthlink's customers SPAMS mailing 
lists with announcements for some act appearing at a nightclub in Las Vegas and 
whatever server his message goes through down in Atlanta gets blacklisted by the 
SPAM blocking service PDML's host uses.


It's *always* the same Earthlink LOSER and it appears to only trigger the one 
SPAM blocking service used by PDML's host.


... and since the guy seems to be a one-person, hole-in-the-wall "advertising" 
agency, it happens every time he sends out a SPAM BLAST. If I submit to PDML 
using my Earthlink account and happen to catch the same server down in Atlanta 
that he's most recently gotten blacklisted, my posts bounce from PDML.


Anyway ... to make a long story even longer, I figured all this out from reading 
the bounce messages I got from PDML, which contain a link to the offending SPAM 
with full headers.


Your hosting service Updog(dot)co should be able to do the same and figure out 
what's got Google blocking them. They may be able to get themselves UN-blocked.


FWIW, if you "google" Updog(dot)co, their website comes up & google doesn't 
appear to give any warnings.



On 11/4/2019 11:54:30, P. J. Alling wrote:
Just an update if anyone want's to know, I heard back from the Updog.co and they 
have had no particular luck getting Google to remove them from their for want of 
a better word blacklist.  They did mention the possibility of changing their 
domain name, which seems like an enormous imposition for one business to impose 
on another.


On 11/4/2019 2:21 AM, P. J. Alling wrote:

Yet I still use their product because it's so convenient.

Google has decided that updog(dot)co the web site I've been using to display 
my images, is a deceptive site, and will not even deliver email that contains 
a link containing that address.  This is annoying as hell.  I've shot a 
message to the administrators at updog telling them of the problem and I hope 
they can convince Google that they're idiots, nicely, personally I'd use a big 
rock, and drop it from orbit on their headquarters.





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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[P. J. Alling]

Just an update if anyone want's to know, I heard back from the Updog.co 
and they have had no particular luck getting Google to remove them from 
their for want of a better word blacklist.  They did mention the 
possibility of changing their domain name, which seems like an enormous 
imposition for one business to impose on another.


On 11/4/2019 2:21 AM, P. J. Alling wrote:

Yet I still use their product because it's so convenient.

Google has decided that updog(dot)co the web site I've been using to 
display my images, is a deceptive site, and will not even deliver 
email that contains a link containing that address.  This is annoying 
as hell.  I've shot a message to the administrators at updog telling 
them of the problem and I hope they can convince Google that they're 
idiots, nicely, personally I'd use a big rock, and drop it from orbit 
on their headquarters.



--
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America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
- P.J. O'Rourke


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Re: I hate Google, more and more every day.

[Dale H. Cook]

On 11/4/2019 2:21 AM, P. J. Alling wrote:

Google has decided that updog(dot)co the web site I've been using to 
display my images, is a deceptive site, and will not even deliver email 
that contains a link containing that address.


What has likely happened is that a spammer has spoofed that domain, and 
that it has been flagged and reported. It may well be impossible to get 
it cleared. You will probably be stuck using (dot)co in your posts. I 
use DuckDuckGo for my search engine and use Google only when I 
absolutely need to find something that DuckDuckGo cannot find. I try to 
minimize my involvement with Google because they have too much power and 
want even more.

--
Dale H. Cook, decades as 35mm SLR photographer, now
Pentax K-70 w/ Pentax-DA 18-270mm walking-around lens
https://plymouthcolony.net/photos/index.html

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I hate Google, more and more every day.

[P. J. Alling]

Yet I still use their product because it's so convenient.

Google has decided that updog(dot)co the web site I've been using to 
display my images, is a deceptive site, and will not even deliver email 
that contains a link containing that address.  This is annoying as 
hell.  I've shot a message to the administrators at updog telling them 
of the problem and I hope they can convince Google that they're idiots, 
nicely, personally I'd use a big rock, and drop it from orbit on their 
headquarters.


--
America wasn't founded so that we could all be better.
America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
- P.J. O'Rourke


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Re: I HATE G*%$##! Stupid Email

[P. J. Alling]

Far be it that I recommend gmail, because they are evil, and Evil as 
well, but once set up properly they do work the way they're supposed 
to.  If I were you I'd just set up a gmail account to use with the PDML 
and be done with it.  There's noting you'll be likely to say here that 
the world won't find out about eventually anyway.


On 7/8/2019 2:50 PM, John wrote:
Earthlink has now decided that all PDML messages are *KNOWN SPAM*. I 
haven't received any PDML messages since Friday, July 5.


I already can't send messages to PDML using Earthlink because they 
don't block their users from sending SPAM & PDML's SPAM filter keeps 
consigning Earthlink to a black hole.


Yahoo is EFFED up and Time-Warner (Spectrum) road-runner email servers 
go down and stay down for months at a time.


I can currently read messages on yahoo and send using road-runner, but 
if you don't ever hear from me again, you'll know why ... *IF* this 
message gets through.





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America wasn't founded so that we could all be better.
America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
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Re: I HATE G*%$##! Stupid Email

[Steve Cottrell]

On 8/7/19, John, discombobulated, unleashed:

>*IF* this message gets through.

It got through soldier.

-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__UK Shoot / Edit and
||  (O)  |Live Broadcast News
--
_



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I HATE G*%$##! Stupid Email

[John]

Earthlink has now decided that all PDML messages are *KNOWN SPAM*. I haven't 
received any PDML messages since Friday, July 5.


I already can't send messages to PDML using Earthlink because they don't block 
their users from sending SPAM & PDML's SPAM filter keeps consigning Earthlink to 
a black hole.


Yahoo is EFFED up and Time-Warner (Spectrum) road-runner email servers go down 
and stay down for months at a time.


I can currently read messages on yahoo and send using road-runner, but if you 
don't ever hear from me again, you'll know why ... *IF* this message gets through.




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Re: I hate to come off like some paranoid, delusional conspiracy theorist...

[John]

I don't have many photos up there, so it would be no great inconvenience
to me, but I would miss the easy access Flickr provides to the National
Archives photo collections.

Still, I expect that if the worst should happen, the government will be
able to find some other way to make those photos available on-line, and
I'd eventually figure it out.


On 2/3/2016 9:52 PM, Bruce Walker wrote:

I'm not concerned about the possibility of a ToS change like that.
Anyone who has tried that in the past has been flayed alive by public
outcry.

And I find myself unconcerned by the possibilities of major changes or
even a shutdown at Flickr. It has played less and less of a role for
me as a work showcase in recent years, and its social functions are
much less useful than Facebook's.

If it were to disappear I'd barely notice, and I'm pretty sure I'm not
alone there.


On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:

... but if you have images on Flickr you'd better pay attention:
http://petapixel.com/2016/02/03/flickr-to-be-scaled-back-as-yahoo-trims-1700-jobs/

Reading between the lines, I'd say that Flickr is For Sale and I think
the likely buyer could be someone like Getty Images (with whom Flickr
already has a relationship). If such a thing happens, I'd pay VERY
CLOSE attention to any changes in their Terms of Service (You know,
those things that most people seem to click through without a moment's
thought?)

Flickr could be a Gold Mine for a stock service like Getty and your
images could be getting licensed for a fraction of what they could be
if Getty (or someone similar) takes a service like Flickr over.

I'm currently investigating ways to get my stuff OFF Flickr, as I feel
it is coming sooner rather than later.








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I hate to come off like some paranoid, delusional conspiracy theorist...

[Darren Addy]

... but if you have images on Flickr you'd better pay attention:
http://petapixel.com/2016/02/03/flickr-to-be-scaled-back-as-yahoo-trims-1700-jobs/

Reading between the lines, I'd say that Flickr is For Sale and I think
the likely buyer could be someone like Getty Images (with whom Flickr
already has a relationship). If such a thing happens, I'd pay VERY
CLOSE attention to any changes in their Terms of Service (You know,
those things that most people seem to click through without a moment's
thought?)

Flickr could be a Gold Mine for a stock service like Getty and your
images could be getting licensed for a fraction of what they could be
if Getty (or someone similar) takes a service like Flickr over.

I'm currently investigating ways to get my stuff OFF Flickr, as I feel
it is coming sooner rather than later.



-- 
“The Earth is Art, The Photographer is only a Witness ”
― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above

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Re: I hate to come off like some paranoid, delusional conspiracy theorist...

[Bruce Walker]

I'm not concerned about the possibility of a ToS change like that.
Anyone who has tried that in the past has been flayed alive by public
outcry.

And I find myself unconcerned by the possibilities of major changes or
even a shutdown at Flickr. It has played less and less of a role for
me as a work showcase in recent years, and its social functions are
much less useful than Facebook's.

If it were to disappear I'd barely notice, and I'm pretty sure I'm not
alone there.


On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> ... but if you have images on Flickr you'd better pay attention:
> http://petapixel.com/2016/02/03/flickr-to-be-scaled-back-as-yahoo-trims-1700-jobs/
>
> Reading between the lines, I'd say that Flickr is For Sale and I think
> the likely buyer could be someone like Getty Images (with whom Flickr
> already has a relationship). If such a thing happens, I'd pay VERY
> CLOSE attention to any changes in their Terms of Service (You know,
> those things that most people seem to click through without a moment's
> thought?)
>
> Flickr could be a Gold Mine for a stock service like Getty and your
> images could be getting licensed for a fraction of what they could be
> if Getty (or someone similar) takes a service like Flickr over.
>
> I'm currently investigating ways to get my stuff OFF Flickr, as I feel
> it is coming sooner rather than later.
>
>
>
> --
> “The Earth is Art, The Photographer is only a Witness ”
> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
>
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Re: I hate to come off like some paranoid, delusional conspiracy theorist...

[David Parsons]

Flickr is useless to Getty or any other stock agency.  I'd be shocked
if 99.% could even be cleared for stock usage.  Copyrighted
material in pictures, lack of model and property releases, and
generally unsuitable for stock usage.

What would be more likely is being sold to another hosting site, like
imgur or an investment or holding company as portfolio piece.
Alphabet may have an interest, but they already have G+.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> ... but if you have images on Flickr you'd better pay attention:
> http://petapixel.com/2016/02/03/flickr-to-be-scaled-back-as-yahoo-trims-1700-jobs/
>
> Reading between the lines, I'd say that Flickr is For Sale and I think
> the likely buyer could be someone like Getty Images (with whom Flickr
> already has a relationship). If such a thing happens, I'd pay VERY
> CLOSE attention to any changes in their Terms of Service (You know,
> those things that most people seem to click through without a moment's
> thought?)
>
> Flickr could be a Gold Mine for a stock service like Getty and your
> images could be getting licensed for a fraction of what they could be
> if Getty (or someone similar) takes a service like Flickr over.
>
> I'm currently investigating ways to get my stuff OFF Flickr, as I feel
> it is coming sooner rather than later.
>
>
>
> --
> “The Earth is Art, The Photographer is only a Witness ”
> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
>
> --
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Re: I hate automatic "upgrades".

[steve harley]

On 2015-12-16 22:11 , Igor PDML-StR wrote:

Adobe Reader DC is the one I had to deal with.
Here is an thread that discusses it:
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1809982


i see — i haven't installed a newer version of Adobe Reader in a while, 
since i open PDFs in Apple's apps 90% of the time, and use Acrobat Pro for 
the rest




As for Skype: unfortunately, switching to other alternatives is not always
possible: a bunch of long-distance collaborators are stuck with Skype.


understood — Skype was an expectation at my work a few years ago; but then 
Microsoft Word was an expectation for a couple of decades and i've managed 
to get past it


if i really had to use Skype again, i'd probably run it in a Windows virtual 
machine and turn it on only when needed


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Re: I hate automatic "upgrades".

[steve harley]

On 2015-12-15 10:10 , Igor PDML-StR wrote:

For some pieces of software, this required some "hacking" (I closed
connections for Adobe products so they cannot connect the update server, and
also manually changed some registries.)


what software does Adobe auto-update? i have owned various Adobe apps and 
suites, and currently have a CC subscription; all the updates i have seen 
are notified with an option to do them or not, though some you have to tell 
not to auto-update (e.g. the app called "Creative Cloud", the application 
manager that notifies me about updates to the other apps)


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Re: I hate automatic "upgrades".

[Igor PDML-StR]

 steve harley Wed, 16 Dec 2015 15:40:12 -0800 wrote:

On 2015-12-15 10:10 , Igor PDML-StR wrote:
For some pieces of software, this required some "hacking" (I closed 
connections for Adobe products so they cannot connect the update 
server, and also manually changed some registries.)


what software does Adobe auto-update? i have owned various Adobe apps and 
suites, and currently have a CC subscription; all the updates i have seen 
are notified with an option to do them or not, though some you have to 
tell not to auto-update (e.g. the app called "Creative Cloud", the 
application manager that notifies me about updates to the other apps)


Adobe Reader DC is the one I had to deal with.
Here is an thread that discusses it:
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1809982

I also recalled that the most recent Opera (browser) also had some 
weirdness with the auto-updates.



As for Skype: unfortunately, switching to other alternatives is not always 
possible: a bunch of long-distance collaborators are stuck with Skype.

Also, some customer services outside of the US are able to message via Skype.

1.5 years ago, while on a trip to Germany, I had to deal with the customer 
service of AirBerlin that damaged my suitcase. The only practical way I 
could get to them was via Skype. 2.5 years ago, I was discussing via Skype 
payment options for a hotel reservation on Easter Island with a travel 
agency in Chile



Igor

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Re: I hate automatic "upgrades".

[John]

What do you use as an alternative?

On 12/15/2015 12:02 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

I deleted Skype from all machines after Microsoft bought them.

G


On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:46 AM, P.J. Alling
 wrote:

I have, probably only one person I talk to or chat with on Skype,
but it's installed on my Laptop and Desktop, and used to be
automatically started when I started both machines.  Not anymore.
The last Skype "improvement" of my experience, now causes any
graphics oriented software to almost choke while Skype is running.
Geeze, first it required me to upgrade to a later version of
Internet Explorer, (a program I never use on my desktop), then,
next time I opened DXO Optics Pro the response of any control was
so laggy I at first thought that the program had frozen.  Photoshop
was noticeably slower too, even a lightweight program like
Irfanview was effected. Tried to open the Task manager* and the
tasks and programs didn't have enough video memory to populate the
lists when it finally appeared, some controls didn't initialize.

I know I don't have the most advanced video card, or the most video
memory, but sheesh, the graphical interface on Skype is pretty
underwhelming, what the fuck, (excuse my language, but I'm a bit
frustrated here),  is Skype doing with all those resources.

*Which really told me nothing, when I finally got it to work since
it's mostly silent on video usage.  Had to run a video analyzer.




--
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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: I hate automatic "upgrades".

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I deleted Skype from all machines after Microsoft bought them. 

G

> On Dec 15, 2015, at 8:46 AM, P.J. Alling  wrote:
> 
> I have, probably only one person I talk to or chat with on Skype, but it's 
> installed on my Laptop and Desktop, and used to be automatically started when 
> I started both machines.  Not anymore. The last Skype "improvement" of my 
> experience, now causes any graphics oriented software to almost choke while 
> Skype is running. Geeze, first it required me to upgrade to a later version 
> of Internet Explorer, (a program I never use on my desktop), then, next time 
> I opened DXO Optics Pro the response of any control was so laggy I at first 
> thought that the program had frozen.  Photoshop was noticeably slower too, 
> even a lightweight program like Irfanview was effected. Tried to open the 
> Task manager* and the tasks and programs didn't have enough video memory to 
> populate the lists when it finally appeared, some controls didn't initialize.
> 
> I know I don't have the most advanced video card, or the most video memory, 
> but sheesh, the graphical interface on Skype is pretty underwhelming, what 
> the fuck, (excuse my language, but I'm a bit frustrated here),  is Skype 
> doing with all those resources.
> 
> *Which really told me nothing, when I finally got it to work since it's 
> mostly silent on video usage.  Had to run a video analyzer.

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I hate automatic "upgrades".

[P.J. Alling]

I have, probably only one person I talk to or chat with on Skype, but 
it's installed on my Laptop and Desktop, and used to be automatically 
started when I started both machines.  Not anymore. The last Skype 
"improvement" of my experience, now causes any graphics oriented 
software to almost choke while Skype is running. Geeze, first it 
required me to upgrade to a later version of Internet Explorer, (a 
program I never use on my desktop), then, next time I opened DXO Optics 
Pro the response of any control was so laggy I at first thought that the 
program had frozen.  Photoshop was noticeably slower too, even a 
lightweight program like Irfanview was effected. Tried to open the Task 
manager* and the tasks and programs didn't have enough video memory to 
populate the lists when it finally appeared, some controls didn't 
initialize.


I know I don't have the most advanced video card, or the most video 
memory, but sheesh, the graphical interface on Skype is pretty 
underwhelming, what the fuck, (excuse my language, but I'm a bit 
frustrated here),  is Skype doing with all those resources.


*Which really told me nothing, when I finally got it to work since it's 
mostly silent on video usage.  Had to run a video analyzer.


--
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immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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Re: I hate automatic "upgrades".

[Igor PDML-StR]

P.J.

I feel your pain.
As a part of a routine, I forbid all the software to update without my 
permission.
For some pieces of software, this required some "hacking" (I closed 
connections for Adobe products so they cannot connect the update server, 
and also manually changed some registries.)


The only piece of software that is not completely blocked off is Viber.

As for Skype, - I am holding on to 6.20.0.104, while it lasts
(until one day, MS will close access for the older versions, as they've 
done previously with version 4.x and 5.x).


The requirement for upgrading IE is wierd! It is probably due to the 
latest version of Skype relying on MS' library that is implemented in IE. 
(Oh, yes, they are trying to display links within the skype window now.

Lame and atrocious!
 They killed Kenny, b...ds!

Let's resume the Happy Holiday Cheers! :)

Igor


P.J. Alling Tue, 15 Dec 2015 08:51:07 -0800 wrote:

I have, probably only one person I talk to or chat with on Skype, but it's 
installed on my Laptop and Desktop, and used to be automatically started 
when I started both machines. Not anymore. The last Skype "improvement" of 
my experience, now causes any graphics oriented software to almost choke 
while Skype is running. Geeze, first it required me to upgrade to a later 
version of Internet Explorer, (a program I never use on my desktop), then, 
next time I opened DXO Optics Pro the response of any control was so laggy 
I at first thought that the program had frozen. Photoshop was noticeably 
slower too, even a lightweight program like Irfanview was effected. Tried 
to open the Task manager* and the tasks and programs didn't have enough 
video memory to populate the lists when it finally appeared, some controls 
didn't initialize.



I know I don't have the most advanced video card, or the most video 
memory, but sheesh, the graphical interface on Skype is pretty 
underwhelming, what the fuck, (excuse my language, but I'm a bit 
frustrated here), is Skype doing with all those resources.



*Which really told me nothing, when I finally got it to work since it's 
mostly silent on video usage. Had to run a video analyzer.


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Re: I hate automatic "upgrades".

[Ken Waller]

...so Windows, Chromebook and Android users are out of luck;


Googling Facetime for PC yields several articles.

Its on the internet ,,, so it must be true

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "steve harley" <p...@paper-ape.com>

Subject: Re: I hate automatic "upgrades".



On 2015-12-15 12:29 , Ken Waller wrote:

My son uses an applcation called Facetime. Much improved over Skype IMO.


Facetime is built into OS X (Macs) and iOS (iPads & iPhones), so Windows, 
Chromebook and Android users are out of luck; Facetime is pretty nice, 
though — i have mediocre cellular signal at home, so if i am on a call and 
start breaking up, i can tap the Facetime button and my call is converted 
to a video call over wifi with great clarity



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Re: I hate automatic "upgrades".

[steve harley]

On 2015-12-15 12:29 , Ken Waller wrote:

My son uses an applcation called Facetime. Much improved over Skype IMO.


Facetime is built into OS X (Macs) and iOS (iPads & iPhones), so Windows, 
Chromebook and Android users are out of luck; Facetime is pretty nice, 
though — i have mediocre cellular signal at home, so if i am on a call and 
start breaking up, i can tap the Facetime button and my call is converted to 
a video call over wifi with great clarity




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Re: I hate automatic "upgrades".

[Ken Waller]

My son uses an applcation called Facetime. Much improved over Skype IMO.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "P.J. Alling" <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>

Subject: I hate automatic "upgrades".


I have, probably only one person I talk to or chat with on Skype, but it's 
installed on my Laptop and Desktop, and used to be automatically started 
when I started both machines.  Not anymore. The last Skype "improvement" of 
my experience, now causes any graphics oriented software to almost choke 
while Skype is running. Geeze, first it required me to upgrade to a later 
version of Internet Explorer, (a program I never use on my desktop), then, 
next time I opened DXO Optics Pro the response of any control was so laggy 
I at first thought that the program had frozen.  Photoshop was noticeably 
slower too, even a lightweight program like Irfanview was effected. Tried 
to open the Task manager* and the tasks and programs didn't have enough 
video memory to populate the lists when it finally appeared, some controls 
didn't initialize.


I know I don't have the most advanced video card, or the most video 
memory, but sheesh, the graphical interface on Skype is pretty 
underwhelming, what the fuck, (excuse my language, but I'm a bit 
frustrated here),  is Skype doing with all those resources.


*Which really told me nothing, when I finally got it to work since it's 
mostly silent on video usage.  Had to run a video analyzer.


--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve 
immortality through not dying.

-- Woody Allen



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Re: I hate automatic "upgrades".

[steve harley]

On 2015-12-15 13:08 , Ken Waller wrote:

...so Windows, Chromebook and Android users are out of luck;


Googling Facetime for PC yields several articles.

Its on the internet ,,, so it must be true


anything from that search that promises actual compatibility with Apple 
Facetime is likely malware just crying out for you to install it


for those attracted to Facetime vs. Skype because of the end-to-end 
encryption, Signal is an alternative that runs on iOS & Android (desktop 
versions coming):




(it can do voice & text, and can send video messages, but can't yet do 
real-time two-way video messaging)


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Re: OT: I hate not having a studio.

[Bruce Walker]

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Bill  wrote:
> On 10/11/2015 7:09 PM, Bruce Walker wrote:
>>
>> I hear you. My fave studio is most often booked up a week or two in
>> advance, so no spontaneous shoots for me.
>>
>>
>
> I'm checking into it. I believe you have worked with her. Fredau on MM.

Oh geez! Do everything in your power to shoot with Fredau. She is
Simply The Best.

This was from my ony (so far) shoot with her, last year. I was
struggling with cranky flashes and flaky triggers, but she's the
classiest, most patient model.

http://off-axis.brucemwalker.com/image/89162244882

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Re: OT: I hate not having a studio.

[Bill]

On 10/11/2015 7:09 PM, Bruce Walker wrote:

I hear you. My fave studio is most often booked up a week or two in
advance, so no spontaneous shoots for me.




I'm checking into it. I believe you have worked with her. Fredau on MM.


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OT: I hate not having a studio.

[Bill]

I just had a wonderful offer from a fantastic model to do a session, and 
had to turn her down for lack of a shooting room.

Damn.

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Re: OT: I hate not having a studio.

[Bruce Walker]

I hear you. My fave studio is most often booked up a week or two in
advance, so no spontaneous shoots for me.

Are there no affordable rental studios in your area, Bill? Even some
yoga and dance studios around here will rent their spaces for $20 an
hour or so.


On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Bill  wrote:
> I just had a wonderful offer from a fantastic model to do a session, and had
> to turn her down for lack of a shooting room.
> Damn.
>
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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[Jack Davis]

Perfect, Ann!
That could be your new name.

Jack

- Original Message -
From: Ann Sanfedele ann...@nyc.rr.com
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2015 8:26:54 PM
Subject: Re: OT: I hate computers!

I hope YOU last more than half an hour

ann

On 1/3/2015 20:35, John wrote:
 On 1/3/2015 8:09 PM, John wrote:





 So another round of having to shut everything down  then bring them all
 up one device at a time.

 I hope my connection will last more than half an hour.


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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[Attila Boros]

Hi John,

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 3:35 AM, John sesso...@earthlink.net wrote:
 On 1/3/2015 8:09 PM, John wrote:

 It was working fine this morning. Come back after lunch  can't access
 the internet AGAIN.

 Thought I had that fixed when I bought the new router.

 Can't access the router. I would like to know what idiot decided the
 best way of providing tech support is via live chat  email? How the
 hell are you supposed to access live chat if the router is down?

If you can't access the router normally from your local network, try
using the default IP address of the router, and default / user
password. It may happen that it resets itself, although it shouldn't.
See if it's overheating, ensure proper ventilation (don't cover any
part of it), don't place it near something warm (on top of your
computer case, near radiators).


Attila

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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[Daniel J. Matyola]

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Ann Sanfedele ann...@nyc.rr.com wrote:
 I hope YOU last more than half an hour

OUCH!!!

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[P.J. Alling]

It doesn't sound like your problem is in the computer so much as in your 
ISP, and network hardware vender.  I understand that Carrier Pigeons are 
reliable...



On 1/3/2015 8:35 PM, John wrote:

On 1/3/2015 8:09 PM, John wrote:

It was working fine this morning. Come back after lunch  can't access
the internet AGAIN.

Thought I had that fixed when I bought the new router.

Can't access the router. I would like to know what idiot decided the
best way of providing tech support is via live chat  email? How the
hell are you supposed to access live chat if the router is down?

Four hours trying to fix it, two of them on hold waiting for Netgear
Tech Support. When he finally came on the phone it only took half an
hour to get everything reset to factory default. Don't know why it
wouldn't reset for me. He walked me through doing the same things I'd
already done 3 times.

Then it only took another hour to figure out where to find the settings
to change the default user name  password.

Fortunately I'm still within the 90 day window for free support.



Of course, before I could even write  send this it was down again.

Had to call TWC Roadrunner support TWICE for them to reset the modem.
They have an automated system that the first time you call it just
resets the modem and tells you to reboot your router  call back in 10
minutes if that doesn't fix the problem.

It never does.

Then you have to call back and fight the Voice Response Unit to finally
get through to a person who has you turn everything off so she can
reboot the modem again - be damn sure you're calling from your cell
phone, because if you're on the cable phone it cuts off  they won't
call you back.

So another round of having to shut everything down  then bring them all
up one device at a time.

I hope my connection will last more than half an hour.




--
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immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[Mark Roberts]

Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Ann Sanfedele ann...@nyc.rr.com wrote:
 I hope YOU last more than half an hour

OUCH!!!

Indeed! (And if more than four hours you should consult your
physician.)
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[John]

Thanks. Kvetching about it helps to clear it out of my system.

As Shrek says Better out than in.

On 1/3/2015 11:26 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:

I hope YOU last more than half an hour

ann

On 1/3/2015 20:35, John wrote:

On 1/3/2015 8:09 PM, John wrote:







So another round of having to shut everything down  then bring them all
up one device at a time.

I hope my connection will last more than half an hour.





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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[John]

I'm captive to a *monopoly* ISP that has no competitive incentive to
provide the service I pay for.

On 1/4/2015 12:21 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

Computers don't seem to like you either. ;-)

Can't answer as to why you have so many problems. I've had my network
go down several times over the past decade, and in every case it was
the supplied aDSL modem or the telecom line that had failed, not my
base station. A call to the vendor sent a service tech out within an
hour and they fixed it every time, no cost. My base stations have all
been 100% up-time.

G


On Jan 3, 2015, at 5:35 PM, John sesso...@earthlink.net wrote:

So another round of having to shut everything down  then bring
them all up one device at a time.





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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[John]

On 1/4/2015 3:09 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:

It doesn't sound like your problem is in the computer so much as in your
ISP, and network hardware vender.  I understand that Carrier Pigeons are
reliable...




Time Warner has a monopoly here. Competition from carrier pigeons is NOT
allowed under their contract with the City of Raleigh. NO competition is
allowed.

The only broadband alternative is ATT (BellSouth) and I've previously
given my reasons why they are not available to me.

Earthlink has a three different fiber attachment points within 1000 feet
of my house, but I'm not allowed to buy service from them.

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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[John]

On 1/4/2015 12:16 AM, David Mann wrote:

On Jan 4, 2015, at 2:09 pm, John sesso...@earthlink.net wrote:


Can't access the router. I would like to know what idiot decided
the best way of providing tech support is via live chat  email?
How the hell are you supposed to access live chat if the router is
down?


Probably an idiot who wants to reduce their tech-support costs :)


Four hours trying to fix it, two of them on hold waiting for
Netgear Tech Support. When he finally came on the phone it only
took half an hour to get everything reset to factory default. Don't
know why it wouldn't reset for me. He walked me through doing the
same things I'd already done 3 times.


Interesting... I have a Netgear router and it's been absolutely rock
solid, but it was a reasonably expensive model.  I had to buy it to
get 5GHz wifi after our new 2.4GHz wireless headphone decided it
didn't want to simply choose a channel and stick with it...

Cheers, Dave




This is my second Netgear router. It was the only 8-port wired router I
could find. Or I should say the only affordable 8-port wired router I
found.

The first one lasted about 8 years. I didn't have that many problems
with the router before it failed. I'm pretty sure it was done in by
being connected to Time-Warner cable.

If I had known, I would have hung on to the box  all the packing
material for the first one because they have a lifetime hardware warranty.

I'll remember that next time.



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OT: I hate computers!

[John]

It was working fine this morning. Come back after lunch  can't access 
the internet AGAIN.


Thought I had that fixed when I bought the new router.

Can't access the router. I would like to know what idiot decided the 
best way of providing tech support is via live chat  email? How the 
hell are you supposed to access live chat if the router is down?


Four hours trying to fix it, two of them on hold waiting for Netgear 
Tech Support. When he finally came on the phone it only took half an 
hour to get everything reset to factory default. Don't know why it 
wouldn't reset for me. He walked me through doing the same things I'd 
already done 3 times.


Then it only took another hour to figure out where to find the settings 
to change the default user name  password.


Fortunately I'm still within the 90 day window for free support.

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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[John]

On 1/3/2015 8:09 PM, John wrote:

It was working fine this morning. Come back after lunch  can't access
the internet AGAIN.

Thought I had that fixed when I bought the new router.

Can't access the router. I would like to know what idiot decided the
best way of providing tech support is via live chat  email? How the
hell are you supposed to access live chat if the router is down?

Four hours trying to fix it, two of them on hold waiting for Netgear
Tech Support. When he finally came on the phone it only took half an
hour to get everything reset to factory default. Don't know why it
wouldn't reset for me. He walked me through doing the same things I'd
already done 3 times.

Then it only took another hour to figure out where to find the settings
to change the default user name  password.

Fortunately I'm still within the 90 day window for free support.



Of course, before I could even write  send this it was down again.

Had to call TWC Roadrunner support TWICE for them to reset the modem.
They have an automated system that the first time you call it just
resets the modem and tells you to reboot your router  call back in 10
minutes if that doesn't fix the problem.

It never does.

Then you have to call back and fight the Voice Response Unit to finally
get through to a person who has you turn everything off so she can
reboot the modem again - be damn sure you're calling from your cell
phone, because if you're on the cable phone it cuts off  they won't
call you back.

So another round of having to shut everything down  then bring them all
up one device at a time.

I hope my connection will last more than half an hour.

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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[Ann Sanfedele]

I hope YOU last more than half an hour

ann

On 1/3/2015 20:35, John wrote:

On 1/3/2015 8:09 PM, John wrote:







So another round of having to shut everything down  then bring them all
up one device at a time.

I hope my connection will last more than half an hour.



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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[David Mann]

On Jan 4, 2015, at 2:09 pm, John sesso...@earthlink.net wrote:

 Can't access the router. I would like to know what idiot decided the best way 
 of providing tech support is via live chat  email? How the hell are you 
 supposed to access live chat if the router is down?

Probably an idiot who wants to reduce their tech-support costs :)

 Four hours trying to fix it, two of them on hold waiting for Netgear Tech 
 Support. When he finally came on the phone it only took half an hour to get 
 everything reset to factory default. Don't know why it wouldn't reset for me. 
 He walked me through doing the same things I'd already done 3 times.

Interesting... I have a Netgear router and it's been absolutely rock solid, but 
it was a reasonably expensive model.  I had to buy it to get 5GHz wifi after 
our new 2.4GHz wireless headphone decided it didn't want to simply choose a 
channel and stick with it...

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: OT: I hate computers!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Computers don't seem to like you either. ;-)

Can't answer as to why you have so many problems. I've had my network go down 
several times over the past decade, and in every case it was the supplied aDSL 
modem or the telecom line that had failed, not my base station. A call to the 
vendor sent a service tech out within an hour and they fixed it every time, no 
cost. My base stations have all been 100% up-time. 

G

 On Jan 3, 2015, at 5:35 PM, John sesso...@earthlink.net wrote:
 
 So another round of having to shut everything down  then bring them all
 up one device at a time.


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Re: I hate digital photography!

[P.J. Alling]

On 10/1/2014 3:34 PM, Charles Robinson wrote:

On Sep 22, 2014, at 13:23 , Igor PDML-StR pdml...@komkon.org wrote:


Yes, I hate digital photography!
With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
deal with.
Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in bursts 
of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and process them.


Simple solution: Get yourself a 512-meg SD card and you'll only be able to shoot about 
1 roll of film before you're done.


You're off by a factor of 2, my last operating 2 gig card shows a 
capacity of 58 exposures in a K-5II I'd assume that you'd need a 1gig 
card to hold between about 36, so a K-3 would probably need that 2gigs.




  -Charles

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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Charles Robinson]

On Oct 3, 2014, at 11:18 , P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 10/1/2014 3:34 PM, Charles Robinson wrote:
 On Sep 22, 2014, at 13:23 , Igor PDML-StR pdml...@komkon.org wrote:
 
 Yes, I hate digital photography!
 With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
 deal with.
 Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in 
 bursts of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and 
 process them.
 
 Simple solution: Get yourself a 512-meg SD card and you'll only be able to 
 shoot about 1 roll of film before you're done.
 
 You're off by a factor of 2, my last operating 2 gig card shows a capacity of 
 58 exposures in a K-5II I'd assume that you'd need a 1gig card to hold 
 between about 36, so a K-3 would probably need that 2gigs.
 

Ack - my only point of reference was K5 image sizes... and even then I was 
guessing fast 'n' loose.

 -Charles

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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Charles Robinson]

On Sep 22, 2014, at 13:23 , Igor PDML-StR pdml...@komkon.org wrote:

 
 Yes, I hate digital photography!
 With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
 deal with.
 Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in bursts 
 of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and process them.
 

Simple solution: Get yourself a 512-meg SD card and you'll only be able to 
shoot about 1 roll of film before you're done.

 -Charles

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Minneapolis, MN
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http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson


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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Charles Robinson]

On Sep 22, 2014, at 15:44 , Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com wrote:
 
 I don't actually delete those I don't get to, though. They remain in my 
 archives in case I want to wander through them and see if there's something I 
 missed worth processing, now and then. 
 

I do this too.

However, last night I realized that for my finished sets of Concert 
Photographs, where I'd already culled the best of many machine-gun-sequenced 
shots, there was no reason to keep the leftovers.

I went through my last 3 years of images from various events (it's obvious when 
I see a single folder with 5-700 images in it) and nuked everything that hadn't 
been edited or included in a collection.

15 minutes of this work yielded 200gigabytes (!!) of space cleared off of my 
drive.  No regrets (yet)

 -Charles

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Re: I hate digital photography!

[David Mann]

On Oct 2, 2014, at 8:34 am, Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com wrote:

 Simple solution: Get yourself a 512-meg SD card and you'll only be able to 
 shoot about 1 roll of film before you're done.

I should try that just for fun... I think I have a 32 or 64Mb one somewhere.

Which reminds me, I'd better get out and buy a couple of 16Gb cards for my trip!

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Igor PDML-StR]

Thanks a lot to all who responded on and off the list.

I hope it was clear that my statement in the subject was a bit facetious.
I like digital photography (and the camera I currently have, k-5 IIs),
It enabled many things that were unavailable (that easily) to me during 
the film era. But some aspects of it bring up the issues described in the 
original message.


I appreciate many different thoughts and suggestions. Some (many) of those 
I've been using for long time. But a few suggestions helped me in 
improving my work flow. In particular, the idea of rating the image with 
1-5 stars is helpful. In most cases, I was just sorting them out with

select/reject flags. THe downside of those in insufficient granularity,
and the fact that those are local variable, i.e. they apply only to the 
particular collection and do not show in a different collection if the 
photo is included in more than one collection, or even in the original 
folder.


In the past week, I've adopted the following star rating:
 1 star - bad, can be deleted. (but I keep the original on the HDD)
 2 stars - barely OK , will not be used for the project, but I might
go back to that if I need a snapshot of something/somebody.
 3 stars - OK for the project, and might be included in the final set
(depending on the project), if I don't have all that I need in 4+ 
-starred photos.
 4 stars - photos will be in the final set for the project (unless 
a duplicate for another 4+ star photo)
 5 stars - 4 stars plus a possible value for other projects (e.g. overall 
great photograph that I might print or work more on in the future).
Absence of a star rating is not a bad thing, but just the fact that the 
file hasn't been rated (or hasn't been rated yet.)

I don't have philosophical issues with the stars (or quasars), and
I consider the ratings system described above somewhat similar to
Yelp star rating, where 1 means awful, and 2 means bad.
That's a very typical system for many evaluations on the 1-5 scale (very 
bad, bad, neutral, good, very good).


As you can see these ratings are project-oriented but with the idea
of keeping these ratings uniform across projects so that I can go back
and find the best photos in the older projects for a new project.
E.g. when I need to do a slide show on a particular topic, I can quickly 
choose photos from several different past projects (e.g. events) that

are alread rated at 5, or sometimes 4.



Let me share back some of my organizational practices (in case they 
would be useful to others):
I do use the colors for some specific purposes, but those are usually 
inconsistent, and not used too frequently.


My folders on the HDD are already sorted by years and (most of the time)
for separate events. I use collections for two main purposes:
1. to select photos for a specific project (or event) and to prepare
web-galleries.
Occasionally, for some special projects, I create a separate catalog
(either from the beginning, from the moment of importing photos into LR,
or later on, by exporting some collections as a catalog).

One of my concerns is that as the main catalog grows, at some point
it contributes to some slugishness. So, I've been considering starting
a new main catalog, but I haven't decided on that. I might do that
at the point of installing the new version of LR.
I am also considering adopting  something similar to what Larry described
with respect to the catalogs.


As for committments, - I am avoiding those. Bbut even when there is no 
formal committment, after shooting at some event (e.g. scientific 
conference) I've had people asking and reminding me that some 
photos haven't been posted every time they see me.
And, occasionally, I either agree to provide photos, or feel that doing 
that would be benefitial professionally [in my day job], frequently for 
networking purposes. I am sure some of PDMLers are familiar with such 
situations.


Attila: I don't start processing photos until the photographs are 
completely imported (and the previews are generated), as otherwise, the 
computer are too sluggish. Other people on the list have written here 
about the same experience previously. Often, after a coming back from a 
trip with many photos, I set up the import before going to bed, and let it 
running for several hours. THe inconvenience of that is that
you cannot queue tasks  in LR (at least in  LR 3.x and 4.x, don't know 
about 5.x). LR always runs the jobs in parallel, and if those jobs are 
similar in nature (different imports or generation of different 
web-galleries), it's inefficient, and occasionally LR gets stuck.


Again, thanks to all for the thoughtful discussion and helpful ideas!


Igor


On Mon, 22 Sep 2014, Igor PDML-StR wrote:



Yes, I hate digital photography!
With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
deal with.
Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in bursts 
of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select

Re: I hate digital photography!

[Mark Roberts]

In the words of Sir Arthur Thomas Quiller-Couch, Murder your
darlings. Use that delete key and use it often. Get rid of your
substandard (below *your* standards) shots and move on.

The more you do this the better your work will become, the less you'll
shoot and the less you'll need to delete.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: I hate digital photography!

[David Mann]

I've never been able to throw out photos, even the 99% that are crap.  It's not 
so bad with the digital stuff as the 2Tb of storage I have will probably last 
me forever, but I am still trying to convince myself to do something with all 
of my old prints.

Cheers,
Dave

On Oct 1, 2014, at 2:11 pm, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:

 In the words of Sir Arthur Thomas Quiller-Couch, Murder your
 darlings. Use that delete key and use it often. Get rid of your
 substandard (below *your* standards) shots and move on.
 
 The more you do this the better your work will become, the less you'll
 shoot and the less you'll need to delete.
 
 -- 
 Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
 www.robertstech.com
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Larry Colen]

Candice just sent me this link to a tutorial on combining LR catalogs
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/the-complete-picture-with-julieanne-kost/lr3-merging-individual-lightroom-catalogs-into-a-master-catalog-/



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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Bob W-PDML]

On 22 Sep 2014, at 23:55, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com wrote:
 
 on 2014-09-22 15:23 Larry Colen wrote
 (unless they are rated 1 star, no redeeming value)
 
 pardon me for a philosophical detour — are stars a measure of goodness, or is 
 it a 1-5 scale of really bad, somewhat bad, neutral, somewhat good, really 
 good?

Me no Likert


B
 
 since they are stars, like one gives to school children or to generals, i 
 instinctively think one star means somewhat good, and that's how i use it 
 for rating my own photos (no star means neutral and bad stuff gets the X); 
 but internet usage seems to be against me — a one star review means awful 
 stuff
 
 not that end-users generally have a choice about the symbol used, but for the 
 developers there's a semantic implication for design choices; if it doesn't 
 mean good, why use stars?

I use quasars

B
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I hate digital photography!

[Igor PDML-StR]

Yes, I hate digital photography!
With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
deal with.
Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come 
in bursts of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and 
process them.


Back in the earlier film era (20+ years), when I was shooting BW, I had a 
similar situation with a backlog (but on a different scale), - since I was 
developing and printing myself. So, I switched to slides - I was getting 
the film developed at a shop.
(Then, when minilabs became accessible for me, I started doing color 
prints, - as it was easy to take the film and get the prints.)


Now, I feel myself in some way similarly to the situation I had
20-some years ago (albeit on a different level of everything), -
swamped with the amount of photographs taken and not having enough time
to process them.

Do they have a treatment for photogolism?


I wonder how other people on the list deal with the photos they take,
especially those who take many photos.

Regards,

Igor


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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Attila Boros]

No problem at all, since I don't have any deadlines, I'm not bothered
by having a huge backlog. From time to time I look over it and
ruthlessly delete the ones deemed not worthy of processing. We will
soon have rainy weather with awful looking skies, so I will have more
time to do processing anyway.

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Igor PDML-StR pdml...@komkon.org wrote:

 Yes, I hate digital photography!
 With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
 deal with.
 Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in
 bursts of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and
 process them.

 Back in the earlier film era (20+ years), when I was shooting BW, I had a
 similar situation with a backlog (but on a different scale), - since I was
 developing and printing myself. So, I switched to slides - I was getting the
 film developed at a shop.
 (Then, when minilabs became accessible for me, I started doing color prints,
 - as it was easy to take the film and get the prints.)

 Now, I feel myself in some way similarly to the situation I had
 20-some years ago (albeit on a different level of everything), -
 swamped with the amount of photographs taken and not having enough time
 to process them.

 Do they have a treatment for photogolism?


 I wonder how other people on the list deal with the photos they take,
 especially those who take many photos.

 Regards,

 Igor


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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Attila Boros]

By the way with digital, you can still take it to the lab and have it
processed for you. You might not like what you get back, but I've had
that problem with minilabs back in the day.

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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Igor PDML-StR]

Attila

I was expecting somebody to make this type of a comment.
I thought of that myself:
1. First, I found the labs  and the masters within those labs that 
were suitable for me.

2. That was the limit of what was available to me
(physically, as I didn't have access to a lab myself, or financially, - 
where I couldn't afford anything beyond that).


3. Now, about giving photos to be printed at a lab.
Because of the demise of the photo-labs, it's harder to find those
that are suitable (and affordable). But the main and the bigger reason is 
the sheer quantity of photos that digital enabled.
And yes, what is available to me, as well as what I am capable of, - both 
have changed, and in most cases, I won't be satisfied with the results

if I brought my files to a generic lab without any prior processing
(and selection!!!) done by me.


BTW, as for the time, - for me even just the process of copying, importing 
photos into LR, and doing the selecton process - already take considerable 
amount of time.

I don't have hard deadline either. But when you are taking photos
at an event (that being a dance event, professional conference or even
an outing with friends), people want to see those photos soon, not
a year later.

Igor


 Attila Boros Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:33:02 -0700 wrote:

By the way with digital, you can still take it to the lab and have it
processed for you. You might not like what you get back, but I've had
that problem with minilabs back in the day.

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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Attila Boros]

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Igor PDML-StR pdml...@komkon.org wrote:

 BTW, as for the time, - for me even just the process of copying, importing
 photos into LR

Don't wait for this to finish, start the process and do something else
while it's running.

 and doing the selecton process - already take considerable
 amount of time.

Set up your workspace so you can select the photos easier. If I have
more photos that are similar, I view them side by side to decide which
one I like better. In Lightroom I think if you go through the images
in develop module it will be slower because it will render them, the
Library module it's faster because it's showing a pre-rendered image.
You can view rows of images, assign ratings using shortcuts, sort by
ratings... try to make this faster for you.

 I don't have hard deadline either. But when you are taking photos
 at an event (that being a dance event, professional conference or even
 an outing with friends), people want to see those photos soon, not
 a year later.

You don't have to show them all. Cull first, process only the strong
images. If there's still a lot, cull more. For events shoot RAW+jpeg,
sometimes the jpeg turns out to be good. Also on event shots there
will be many photos taken under similar light. Develop one,
synchronize the rest.

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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sep 22, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Igor PDML-StR pdml...@komkon.org wrote:
 
 Yes, I hate digital photography!
 With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
 deal with.
 Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in bursts 
 of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and process them.

Shoot less. 
Process what's appealing immediately. 
Delete the rest. 

Oh, and don't make commitments to others to deliver photographs. 

 I wonder how other people on the list deal with the photos they take,
 especially those who take many photos.

See the above. 

I don't actually delete those I don't get to, though. They remain in my 
archives in case I want to wander through them and see if there's something I 
missed worth processing, now and then. 

G
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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Zos Xavius]

So what do you do when your LR catalog hits over 100k? You just keep
adding? I'm at the point where I want to just delete everything and
pare it all down to just portfolio worthy stuff. I have months worth
of shots to sort and edit and quite frankly I'm really not looking
forward to sorting through 100,000 pictures either. Some flagged, some
not. It seems like whenever I start purging I delete something I
wanted by accident, so I've been really reluctant to delete things but
the lack of hard drive space is cramping my style right now hard.
Yeah, I could just buy another drive, but for every drive I buy, I
have to buy a 2nd so I at the very least have some redundancy.

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com wrote:
 On Sep 22, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Igor PDML-StR pdml...@komkon.org wrote:

 Yes, I hate digital photography!
 With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
 deal with.
 Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in 
 bursts of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and 
 process them.

 Shoot less.
 Process what's appealing immediately.
 Delete the rest.

 Oh, and don't make commitments to others to deliver photographs.

 I wonder how other people on the list deal with the photos they take,
 especially those who take many photos.

 See the above.

 I don't actually delete those I don't get to, though. They remain in my 
 archives in case I want to wander through them and see if there's something I 
 missed worth processing, now and then.

 G
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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Larry Colen]

Igor PDML-StR wrote:


Yes, I hate digital photography!


There are aspects of film photography that I love, particularly the 
rhythm of shooting. However I love digital.



With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
deal with.
Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in
bursts of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and
process them.


Speaking of which, I missed you and Jane at SFLX this weekend. It's a 
shame that you didn't have a flight to miss on Saturday, Gordon 
Webster's band was completely off the hook. It was amazing.


I'm facing 2700 frames from this weekend.  I wasn't going to do much 
shooting, but did want to get some photos for people. Friday night, one 
of the organizers asked if I was going to be shooting all weekend. I 
said that I had been planning on getting a few but was planning on 
mostly dancing.  He said that if I took photos, he'd see what he could 
arrange with the other photographer about refunding some of my 
registration, which he did last night.


The money made a little bit of difference, but the sign of being 
appreciated really made me feel nice.


For event photos, I have the facebook photos which don't have to be as 
excellent photographically, but which are mostly so the people at the 
event has photos of themselves to remember the event by, or to show off 
to their friends.


Out of that, I'll select the flickr photos which are the ones that 
generally stand on their own merits for someone who wasn't at the event.


The key to my process is to take several passes as quickly as possible 
to narrow the photos down to a manageable number.


I import everything into lightroom. I'll then do basic sorting into 
directories.  If I'm photographing a band, I try to put all the photos 
of each musician in a separate directory, so that later I can easily 
compare them with each other.  Also, when I process photos into jpegs, 
that means that photos of each person end up on a disk where they can 
easily be found.


At this step I may do some mass adjustment for white balance, exposure, 
autotoning.  I also may do mass tagging, like a tag for the event, or 
the location.


My rating system is
1: The photo is completely ruined technically, there is nothing that can 
be recovered.
2: meh. There is nothing technically wrong with this photo, but nothing 
artistically right with it. Unless you happen to be the person in the 
photo and it happens to be the only photo of you at the event and you'll 
take anything.

3: Good enough technically and artistically to consider putting on the web.
4: Good enough to pay a couple dollars to get a print of.
5: One of my absolute best photos ever.  I don't think I've rated any 
photos a 5 yet.


The goal of the first couple of passes is to narrow down as many photos 
as quickly as possible.


I will have lightroom process everything to 1:1 previews because those 
load the fastest.  I had the machine do that last night while I was 
sleeping.


On my first pass, I set lightroom to only show unrated (0 stars) photos. 
I take a very quick pass rating photos 1 or 3.  If there is any question 
whether a photo is a 2 or a 3 I just rate it a 3 and move to the next. 
I'd rather get a false positive and look at it again than spend time 
looking at it.


At the end, everything left is rated a 2.

My next pass, I go through and select the best photos from the ones 
previously selected. I may downgrade a few to 2 stars. At this point 
I've seen everything and know about much better photos that may be later 
in the set.  Sometimes at this step I start at the end and work my way 
back.


I'll use the P key (and sometimes the X key) at this point to make my 
selections.  I may make a second quick pass, using the U key to drop 
some of the selected photos out.


Once I have this selection, I highlight all the selected photos, make a 
collection and use the U key to unpick everything.


I may repeat this cycle a couple of times, as long as I can go through 
and make decisions quickly.  I might do some mass adjustments of photos, 
as in select a bunch similarlry misexposed or with bad color balance, 
make a group adjustment and reprocess the previews.


Each time I end up with a more select subset of photos to make a 
collection of.  Occasionally, I'll delete the keepers from the 
collection of the previous iteration to give me best, better, good  etc. 
particularly if the photos are of someone that may be looking for 
different things than I (how well they are doing a particular move 
rather than how artistic the photo).



When I've got the group of photos to a manageable size, I'll then go 
through and quickly do individual adjustments, mostly cropping and fine 
tweaking of exposure.  I may also unpick photos at this point.  Ideally 
I'm down to under 20% of my original photos, with many of them similar 
shots.


At this point I can go through and find the best of several similar 
shots

Re: I hate digital photography!

[Larry Colen]

Zos Xavius wrote:

So what do you do when your LR catalog hits over 100k? You just keep
adding? I'm at the point where I want to just delete everything and
pare it all down to just portfolio worthy stuff. I have months worth
of shots to sort and edit and quite frankly I'm really not looking
forward to sorting through 100,000 pictures either. Some flagged, some
not. It seems like whenever I start purging I delete something I
wanted by accident, so I've been really reluctant to delete things but
the lack of hard drive space is cramping my style right now hard.
Yeah, I could just buy another drive, but for every drive I buy, I
have to buy a 2nd so I at the very least have some redundancy.


I have two primary catalogs.  One is the everything catalog which has 
every photo that I've taken.  Yes, it's over 100k frames.  Giving credit 
where it's due, I think I got this idea from Godfrey.


The catalog that I spend most of my time in is my working catalog.  It 
has my newer work, plus older work that I've been fine tuning, printing 
etc.  Every so often I export all of my recently modified files from 
working into a xfer catalog, then import that into the everything 
catalog.  Once or twice a year, I'll delete all of the older meh 
photos from working, and occasionally I'll delete anything under four 
stars that is over a certain age since I processed it.


I don't tend to delete the raw files from the everything catalog (unless 
they are rated 1 star, no redeeming value) because every so often I need 
to find photos of someone who passed away and my not quite good enough 
to put on the web might be one of the best photos there is of someone.




--
Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est)

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Re: I hate digital photography!

[John]

On 9/22/2014 2:23 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


Yes, I hate digital photography!
With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
deal with.
Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in
bursts of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and
process them.

Back in the earlier film era (20+ years), when I was shooting BW, I had
a similar situation with a backlog (but on a different scale), - since I
was developing and printing myself. So, I switched to slides - I was
getting the film developed at a shop.
(Then, when minilabs became accessible for me, I started doing color
prints, - as it was easy to take the film and get the prints.)

Now, I feel myself in some way similarly to the situation I had
20-some years ago (albeit on a different level of everything), -
swamped with the amount of photographs taken and not having enough time
to process them.

Do they have a treatment for photogolism?


I wonder how other people on the list deal with the photos they take,
especially those who take many photos.

Regards,

Igor




A lot of them I just put away for six months before looking at them 
again. I'm not so emotionally invested in them that way.


I'm also starting a program to use a roll of film per week kind of just 
to decompress  maybe rekindle my interest.


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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: I hate digital photography!

[John]

I'm pretty sure Lightroom will allow you to have more than one catalog. 
If your current catalog is getting to big, stop adding to it and start a 
new catalog going forward.


On 9/22/2014 5:04 PM, Zos Xavius wrote:

So what do you do when your LR catalog hits over 100k? You just keep
adding? I'm at the point where I want to just delete everything and
pare it all down to just portfolio worthy stuff. I have months worth
of shots to sort and edit and quite frankly I'm really not looking
forward to sorting through 100,000 pictures either. Some flagged, some
not. It seems like whenever I start purging I delete something I
wanted by accident, so I've been really reluctant to delete things but
the lack of hard drive space is cramping my style right now hard.
Yeah, I could just buy another drive, but for every drive I buy, I
have to buy a 2nd so I at the very least have some redundancy.

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com wrote:

On Sep 22, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Igor PDML-StR pdml...@komkon.org wrote:


Yes, I hate digital photography!
With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
deal with.
Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in bursts 
of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and process them.


Shoot less.
Process what's appealing immediately.
Delete the rest.

Oh, and don't make commitments to others to deliver photographs.


I wonder how other people on the list deal with the photos they take,
especially those who take many photos.


See the above.

I don't actually delete those I don't get to, though. They remain in my 
archives in case I want to wander through them and see if there's something I 
missed worth processing, now and then.

G
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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Ken Waller]

Deleting is one of the best ways to improve your photography !

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: Zos Xavius zosxav...@gmail.com

Subject: Re: I hate digital photography!



So what do you do when your LR catalog hits over 100k? You just keep
adding? I'm at the point where I want to just delete everything and
pare it all down to just portfolio worthy stuff. I have months worth
of shots to sort and edit and quite frankly I'm really not looking
forward to sorting through 100,000 pictures either. Some flagged, some
not. It seems like whenever I start purging I delete something I
wanted by accident, so I've been really reluctant to delete things but
the lack of hard drive space is cramping my style right now hard.
Yeah, I could just buy another drive, but for every drive I buy, I
have to buy a 2nd so I at the very least have some redundancy.

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com wrote:

On Sep 22, 2014, at 11:23 AM, Igor PDML-StR pdml...@komkon.org wrote:


Yes, I hate digital photography!
With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
deal with.
Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in 
bursts of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and 
process them.


Shoot less.
Process what's appealing immediately.
Delete the rest.

Oh, and don't make commitments to others to deliver photographs.


I wonder how other people on the list deal with the photos they take,
especially those who take many photos.


See the above.

I don't actually delete those I don't get to, though. They remain in my 
archives in case I want to wander through them and see if there's 
something I missed worth processing, now and then.


G



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Re: I hate digital photography!

[steve harley]

on 2014-09-22 15:23 Larry Colen wrote

(unless they are rated 1 star, no redeeming value)


pardon me for a philosophical detour — are stars a measure of goodness, or 
is it a 1-5 scale of really bad, somewhat bad, neutral, somewhat good, 
really good?


since they are stars, like one gives to school children or to generals, i 
instinctively think one star means somewhat good, and that's how i use it 
for rating my own photos (no star means neutral and bad stuff gets the X); 
but internet usage seems to be against me — a one star review means awful 
stuff


not that end-users generally have a choice about the symbol used, but for 
the developers there's a semantic implication for design choices; if it 
doesn't mean good, why use stars?




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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Sandy Harris]

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 6:55 PM, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com wrote:

 pardon me for a philosophical detour -- are stars a measure of goodness, or
 is it a 1-5 scale of really bad, somewhat bad, neutral, somewhat good,
 really good?

Originally, a measure of quality. The first star ratings were in the 1920s in
Michelin Guides, aimed at drivers since Michelin is a tire company, and
rated restaurants:

1: Worth visiting if you are in the area
2: Worth a detour
3: Worth a special trip

As of about 5 years ago when I last saw numbers, there were 81 Michelin
3-star restaurants worldwide.

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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

 On Sep 22, 2014, at 2:04 PM, Zos Xavius zosxav...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 So what do you do when your LR catalog hits over 100k? You just keep
 adding? I'm at the point where I want to just delete everything and
 pare it all down to just portfolio worthy stuff. I have months worth
 of shots to sort and edit and quite frankly I'm really not looking
 forward to sorting through 100,000 pictures either. Some flagged, some
 not. It seems like whenever I start purging I delete something I
 wanted by accident, so I've been really reluctant to delete things but
 the lack of hard drive space is cramping my style right now hard.
 Yeah, I could just buy another drive, but for every drive I buy, I
 have to buy a 2nd so I at the very least have some redundancy.

Just keep adding. Well, not quite. 

I've written about it before. I maintain a two-catalog system for most of my 
work. First catalog contains all my work in progress which generally 
stretches back until 2006 now. There are about 88000 image files in that 
catalog at present, organized into a year and day hierarchy. 

Second catalog is a completed work catalog. This contains all the photos I've 
abandoned ... eh, completed. It's also organized by year, but the years are 
organized by project, not time. There are about 50,000 images in that one. 

Beyond those two, I have a compendium catalog that I suck both of the other two 
catalogs into and has all the additional images that come from years before 
2006. That allows me to browse through everything when I'm scanning for 
something interesting or searching for locations, keywords, etc. At present, 
there are 375,000 files in that one. 

In addition to the above, when I'm working on a particular project, I make 
small catalogs once I've established all the photos that a project will 
include. I recently created another one of these working on a client order. It 
enables me to focus on that work, specifically and without distraction. Once 
the project is done, I merge the 'sub-catalog' back into the completed work 
catalog. 

My workflow works like this. 
- When I get back from a session, whether it's 10 or 1000 exposures, I import 
them all and set basic keyword and location information. 
- I step through them all quickly using the Pick and Garbage flags - no more 
than a second looking at each image. 
- Then I filter for just the garbage, flip through it, and delete it. 
- Then I filter for the un-picked images to see if I missed any that might be 
picks the same way I did the first pass. 
- Once I've finished the second pass, I filter by picks and put them all into a 
collection which is named MMDD-{subject}. That way the collections stack 
up in date order. For an average session, the collection usually has 5 to 20 
images in it at that point. 
- I unset all the pick flags and walk through all the photos slowly now, remove 
what I now feel doesn't belong in the good stuff, and start processing in the 
order I think they're interesting. 

Usually by the time I've processed five to ten in any given collection, I've 
gotten through most of the ones I really like. If I then wait three to six 
months and look at the collection again, sometimes another couple of images 
jump out at me and I process them. 

I use the star ratings this way: 
* means I've done basic adjustments on it. .. the image is interesting enough 
to do that. 
** means I like this, I might post it. .. I write these to the completed 
archive.
*** meens Yeah, this one made it. .. a rendering was put on my iPad and on 
the web. 

Four and five stars I reserve for project work on virtual copies:
 hot candidate for the project
* included and finished in the project
Any file that gets demoted to under *** is removed from the project. 
Once the project is done and the files written out to the completed work 
archive, I clear all the star ratings. 

Color labels I use for a lot of different things and they're always temporary. 
For instance, I might use colors to group a panorama, or a set of sequences, or 
whatever. No matter how I use them, I clear them after the use is over. 

There are countless ways to organize and use the tools in Lightroom. This works 
for me. 

Godfrey
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Re: I hate digital photography!

[Stan Halpin]

I have several relatives and friends who are involved in various creative 
artwork, mostly hobbyists. Painters, weavers, basket makers, quilters, 
stitchers, etc. Once you have made your first 100-150 baskets you will have 
given several to all friends and relatives, filled up your own house, and every 
time you have the itch to start a new project you have this worry about storage 
space. How many paintings can fit in one person's house? Same problem with 
pots, sculptures, etc. etc. You and I, on the other hand, have the luxury of 
storing our art as teeny-weeny electronic thingies on some discs and you think 
you have a problem?!? (;-)

But as to your question:

1. Take fewer pictures. Be more selective. Use a tripod. 
2. Do a quick run-through of your images as soon as possible. Give a 1 rating 
to keepers, skip the rest. If and when you have time, you can re-review the 
zeros and verify tht there are no keepers in that bunch, but meanwhile you have 
established a basic (smaller) set to work with.
3. Sometime later, sort out the 1's, go through those and give a 2 to any you 
might work with in the near future to satisfy those nagging commitments.
4. When you have time to work with your 2's, upgrade them to 3, 4, or 5 
depending on how thrilled you are with them after you've done what you could to 
them in post processing.
5. Make a Collection of your higher rated ones from an event so you can quickly 
find and distribute shots to others. When you re-visit that event 6 months 
later, don't look at the whole set, just look at those in the collection. The 
only time to go back to the zeros, 1's, or 2's is a) if you are bored and need 
something to fiddle with for the evening, or b) you realize that a specific 
pereson or other subject doesn't show up in any of the higher rated shots.
6. Try to avoid commitments in the first place!

stan


On Sep 22, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Igor PDML-StR pdml...@komkon.org wrote:

 
 Yes, I hate digital photography!
 With a digital camera, I am producing to many photographs to be able to
 deal with.
 Even though I take photographs only a few days a month, they come in bursts 
 of several hundreds, and then I don't have time to select and process them.
 
 Back in the earlier film era (20+ years), when I was shooting BW, I had a 
 similar situation with a backlog (but on a different scale), - since I was 
 developing and printing myself. So, I switched to slides - I was getting the 
 film developed at a shop.
 (Then, when minilabs became accessible for me, I started doing color prints, 
 - as it was easy to take the film and get the prints.)
 
 Now, I feel myself in some way similarly to the situation I had
 20-some years ago (albeit on a different level of everything), -
 swamped with the amount of photographs taken and not having enough time
 to process them.
 
 Do they have a treatment for photogolism?
 
 
 I wonder how other people on the list deal with the photos they take,
 especially those who take many photos.
 
 Regards,
 
 Igor
 
 
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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[steve harley]

on 2013-10-06 11:26 Mark Roberts wrote

...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
Hence this experiment.

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm


OMG that's goorjus!


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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Brian Walters]

Quoting steve harley p...@paper-ape.com:


on 2013-10-06 11:26 Mark Roberts wrote

...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
Hence this experiment.

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm


OMG that's goorjus!



Sounds like you're channelling Dick Solomon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ1HjtlgYKA


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http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/



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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Mark Roberts]

For the curious, here's the non-HDR version of my Milan street scene
(just basic Lightroom processing):
http://www.robertstech.com/temp/112-7dd06804.jpg
 
-- 
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www.robertstech.com





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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Bruce Walker]

Not bad, but it really needs to be amped up.

;-)

I think what this really shows is you need to start with a great shot
no matter what you do with it afterward.


On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:
 For the curious, here's the non-HDR version of my Milan street scene
 (just basic Lightroom processing):
 http://www.robertstech.com/temp/112-7dd06804.jpg

 --
 Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
 www.robertstech.com





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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[P.J. Alling]

Metal flake paint on velvet was popular back in the day as well.  I hate 
to admit but I own a small picture in that medium.  I even like it but 
it's subdued for the genre.


On 10/6/2013 1:33 PM, Bruce Walker wrote:

Pretty clear why this kind of image sells; it's very eye-catching. And
you managed to do it without that kind of crinkly edges look.

After producing this, do you feel dirty now? ;-)


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:

...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
Hence this experiment.

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm

Pseudo-HDR treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
of tweaking with masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
make look more like an illustration than a photograph.

Notes:

1/2-second exposure obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
against lamp post.

I love the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
left-hand corner.

Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes the
most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.

--
Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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 - H.L.Mencken


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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Daniel J. Matyola]

I liked the HDR version a bit better.  You definitely did not overdo it.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:
 For the curious, here's the non-HDR version of my Milan street scene
 (just basic Lightroom processing):
 http://www.robertstech.com/temp/112-7dd06804.jpg

 --
 Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
 www.robertstech.com





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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Attila Boros]

Finally I could access the page. Overall I like the HDR version better
(not overdone at all), but prefer the light streaks in the non-HDR.

--
Attila


On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 11:42 PM, Daniel J. Matyola danmaty...@gmail.com wrote:
 I liked the HDR version a bit better.  You definitely did not overdo it.

 Dan Matyola
 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


 On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com 
 wrote:
 For the curious, here's the non-HDR version of my Milan street scene
 (just basic Lightroom processing):
 http://www.robertstech.com/temp/112-7dd06804.jpg

 --
 Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
 www.robertstech.com





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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[P.J. Alling]

On 10/7/2013 1:51 AM, Larry Colen wrote:

On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 04:03:39PM +1100, Philip Northeast wrote:

Unfortunately I managed to access the image from Oz, and yes it is
way over the top.


A good example of what not to do.

But he did what he shouldn't very well.


That sounds like something Mae West would say.





Philip Northeast

www.aviewfinderdarkly.com.au

On 7/10/13 3:56 PM, Alastair Robertson wrote:

I would look except that you rather isolationist policy of blocking
foreign IP addresses prevents from me from doing so - do you really
have to be so paranoid?

Alastair

On 7 October 2013 16:57, Bruce bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote:

You may hate it but you have done an effective job with it.   Very interesting 
scene.

--
Bruce
--
Sent from Sony Tablet S

Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:

...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
Hence this experiment.

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm

Pseudo-HDR treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
of tweaking with masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
make look more like an illustration than a photograph.

Notes:

1/2-second exposure obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
against lamp post.

I love the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
left-hand corner.

Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes the
most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.



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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Eactivist]

Well, I'll be different and say I like this one  better. The other looked 
unreal to me. BUT... I would do some recovery in the  shadows. Somewhere 
between this one and the other one.

HTH, Marnie aka  Doe :-)

In a message dated 10/8/2013 1:05:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
postmas...@robertstech.com writes:
For the curious, here's the non-HDR  version of my Milan street scene
(just basic Lightroom  processing):
http://www.robertstech.com/temp/112-7dd06804.jpg

--  
Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com  


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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Eactivist]

Well, since you hate it, what are we supposed to  say?

Huh, not my kind of thing either. Hey, look, you even have star  lights! 
Whee!

Heh. Marnie aka Doe ;-)  Nice composition? Can say  that.

In a message dated 10/6/2013 10:26:36 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
postmas...@robertstech.com writes:
...but it sells, so I need to be able to  teach it to my students.
Hence this  experiment.

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm

Pseudo-HDR  treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
of tweaking with  masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
make look more like an  illustration than a photograph.

Notes: 

1/2-second exposure  obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
against lamp post.

I love  the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
left-hand  corner.

Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes  the
most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.

-- 
Mark Roberts  - Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Darren Addy]

Contrived and unnatural, but in a Thomas Kinkade kind of style. Which,
perhaps, explains the commercial appeal.

On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 1:42 AM,  eactiv...@aol.com wrote:
 Well, since you hate it, what are we supposed to  say?

 Huh, not my kind of thing either. Hey, look, you even have star  lights!
 Whee!

 Heh. Marnie aka Doe ;-)  Nice composition? Can say  that.

 In a message dated 10/6/2013 10:26:36 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
 postmas...@robertstech.com writes:
 ...but it sells, so I need to be able to  teach it to my students.
 Hence this  experiment.

 http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm

 Pseudo-HDR  treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
 of tweaking with  masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
 make look more like an  illustration than a photograph.

 Notes:

 1/2-second exposure  obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
 against lamp post.

 I love  the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
 left-hand  corner.

 Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes  the
 most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.

 --
 Mark Roberts  - Photography  Multimedia
 www.robertstech.com





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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Brian Walters]

Quoting Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com:


...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
Hence this experiment.

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm




It's not my thing either - but I've seen lots of others that I hate more...


Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/






Pseudo-HDR treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
of tweaking with masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
make look more like an illustration than a photograph.

Notes:

1/2-second exposure obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
against lamp post.

I love the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
left-hand corner.

Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes the
most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.

--
Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Ann Sanfedele]

Yikes!
Mark,
I hope you also tell your students that (a) you hate it too
and (b) it is a good example of what good photographers (like you) 
don't do and don't need to do.


Please show image before you mangled it

ann



On 10/7/2013 08:08, Brian Walters wrote:

Quoting Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com:


...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
Hence this experiment.

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm




It's not my thing either - but I've seen lots of others that I hate more...


Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/






Pseudo-HDR treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
of tweaking with masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
make look more like an illustration than a photograph.

Notes:

1/2-second exposure obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
against lamp post.

I love the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
left-hand corner.

Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes the
most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.

--
Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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The kind of HDR I hate

[Mark Roberts]

...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
Hence this experiment.

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm

Pseudo-HDR treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
of tweaking with masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
make look more like an illustration than a photograph.

Notes: 

1/2-second exposure obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
against lamp post.

I love the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
left-hand corner.

Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes the
most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Bruce Walker]

Pretty clear why this kind of image sells; it's very eye-catching. And
you managed to do it without that kind of crinkly edges look.

After producing this, do you feel dirty now? ;-)


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:
 ...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
 Hence this experiment.

 http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm

 Pseudo-HDR treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
 of tweaking with masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
 make look more like an illustration than a photograph.

 Notes:

 1/2-second exposure obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
 against lamp post.

 I love the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
 left-hand corner.

 Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes the
 most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.

 --
 Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
 www.robertstech.com





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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Mark Roberts]

Bruce Walker wrote:

Pretty clear why this kind of image sells; it's very eye-catching. And
you managed to do it without that kind of crinkly edges look.

After producing this, do you feel dirty now? ;-)

We'll see. I'm going to put it in my NAPP portfolio because they seem
to love super-contrasty, extra-saturated, HDR-style imagery.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Bruce Walker]

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:
 Bruce Walker wrote:

Pretty clear why this kind of image sells; it's very eye-catching. And
you managed to do it without that kind of crinkly edges look.

After producing this, do you feel dirty now? ;-)

 We'll see. I'm going to put it in my NAPP portfolio because they seem
 to love super-contrasty, extra-saturated, HDR-style imagery.

And on 500px, and Flickr, and ...

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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Attila Boros]

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:

 http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm

Ooops...

Sorry, you are not permitted to access this material. This is usually
because of excessive hacking/spaming/probes from your general IP
space. If you wish to change this please complain to your Internet
provider and ask them to improve their security.

Sorry to hear that sir. I have dynamic IP, maybe I will have better
luck next time.

--
Attila

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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Bruce]

You may hate it but you have done an effective job with it.   Very interesting 
scene. 

--
Bruce
-- 
Sent from Sony Tablet S

Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:
...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
Hence this experiment.

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm

Pseudo-HDR treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
of tweaking with masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
make look more like an illustration than a photograph.

Notes: 

1/2-second exposure obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
against lamp post.

I love the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
left-hand corner.

Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes the
most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.
 


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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Alastair Robertson]

I would look except that you rather isolationist policy of blocking
foreign IP addresses prevents from me from doing so - do you really
have to be so paranoid?

Alastair

On 7 October 2013 16:57, Bruce bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote:
 You may hate it but you have done an effective job with it.   Very 
 interesting scene.

 --
 Bruce
 --
 Sent from Sony Tablet S

 Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:
...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
Hence this experiment.

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm

Pseudo-HDR treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
of tweaking with masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
make look more like an illustration than a photograph.

Notes:

1/2-second exposure obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
against lamp post.

I love the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
left-hand corner.

Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes the
most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.



 --
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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Philip Northeast]

Unfortunately I managed to access the image from Oz, and yes it is way 
over the top.



A good example of what not to do.


Philip Northeast

www.aviewfinderdarkly.com.au

On 7/10/13 3:56 PM, Alastair Robertson wrote:

I would look except that you rather isolationist policy of blocking
foreign IP addresses prevents from me from doing so - do you really
have to be so paranoid?

Alastair

On 7 October 2013 16:57, Bruce bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote:

You may hate it but you have done an effective job with it.   Very interesting 
scene.

--
Bruce
--
Sent from Sony Tablet S

Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:

...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
Hence this experiment.

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm

Pseudo-HDR treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
of tweaking with masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
make look more like an illustration than a photograph.

Notes:

1/2-second exposure obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
against lamp post.

I love the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
left-hand corner.

Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes the
most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.




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Re: The kind of HDR I hate

[Larry Colen]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 04:03:39PM +1100, Philip Northeast wrote:
 Unfortunately I managed to access the image from Oz, and yes it is
 way over the top.
 
 
 A good example of what not to do.

But he did what he shouldn't very well.

 
 
 Philip Northeast
 
 www.aviewfinderdarkly.com.au
 
 On 7/10/13 3:56 PM, Alastair Robertson wrote:
 I would look except that you rather isolationist policy of blocking
 foreign IP addresses prevents from me from doing so - do you really
 have to be so paranoid?
 
 Alastair
 
 On 7 October 2013 16:57, Bruce bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote:
 You may hate it but you have done an effective job with it.   Very 
 interesting scene.
 
 --
 Bruce
 --
 Sent from Sony Tablet S
 
 Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:
 ...but it sells, so I need to be able to teach it to my students.
 Hence this experiment.
 
 http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7dd06804-hdr.htm
 
 Pseudo-HDR treatment (it's tone mapped from a single exposure). Lots
 of tweaking with masks, selective noise reduction and other tricks to
 make look more like an illustration than a photograph.
 
 Notes:
 
 1/2-second exposure obtained without a tripod by bracing camera
 against lamp post.
 
 I love the sneakers hanging over the phone lines in the upper
 left-hand corner.
 
 Gelateria Yogurteria Venexia (in the center of the photo) makes the
 most amazing triple-chocolate gelato in Italy.
 
 
 
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Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc


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