Re: More Pentax quality grief
On 4/4/2011 22:02, Ralf R. Radermacher wrote: The OK button of my, or rather Michael's, K10D has stopped working. Just got the cost estimate for the repair: 310,45 euros! My DS gave up after 4 years (rear thumbwheel erratic, repair too expensive), the K10D, 4 1/2 years old, is now beyond economical repair, my K-7 had been exchanged by the dealer and #2 needed a new trigger button after less than a year, and I'm at my 4th K-5 and counting... Is this just a strain of bad luck or is Pentax' quality really going down the drain? Or is an average economic lifetime of a mere 4 1/2 years for a DSLR a normal thing nowadays? Ralf Ralf, without going into your financial situation I should point out that 4+ years for a DSLR is a lot. I cannot possibly know how much Michael is shooting with his K10D, but I think that half the declared guaranteed number of shutter actuations is not bad at all on my book. My K10D has 23,000+ clicks and doing as good as it was when I bought it back in 2006. I hope it will do as many clicks more before it finally expires. I cannot possibly disagree that QC does not appear improving over the years, but then so does the complexity of the cameras. I don't think you could outright deny that other manufacturers are completely trouble free too. Yet I certainly can relate to your frustration. These things are certainly not peanuts. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
On 5 April 2011 17:56, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: I cannot possibly disagree that QC does not appear improving over the years, but then so does the complexity of the cameras. I don't think you could outright deny that other manufacturers are completely trouble free too. Yet I certainly can relate to your frustration. These things are certainly not peanuts. Where this argument falls flat is that the vast majority of the problems reported, ie wonky mirrors, sticky buttons, failing rotary actuators, motors/gears/clutches in lenses, spots on sensors are all generally of mechanical nature. None of these issues are involve significantly more complex systems than Pentax used to be able to execute so successfully prior to their foray into DSLR production. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
On 4/5/2011 11:06, Rob Studdert wrote: Where this argument falls flat is that the vast majority of the problems reported, ie wonky mirrors, sticky buttons, failing rotary actuators, motors/gears/clutches in lenses, spots on sensors are all generally of mechanical nature. None of these issues are involve significantly more complex systems than Pentax used to be able to execute so successfully prior to their foray into DSLR production. Well, Rob, it is correct what you say but consider these points: * K7 and consequently K5 offer both faster shutters and more silent mirror mechanisms. Although falling under same mechanical category for most part, these are new features. * I don't know what kind of complexity, especially with regard to manufacturing mechanical tolerances, is introduced by 100% viewfinder. * Pentax like everyone is still about reducing manufacturing costs... It has to be factored in to the equation. But I certainly agree that things such as buttons or control wheels all should function 120% perfect. Finally, sad as it is, and as dead as any other dead horse over here, the fact that Pentax is no longer Pentax, but rather Hoya-Pentax has to be considered as well. Again, I am not offering excuses and quite sorry ones at that. I am offering an explanation as to why this is all may be happening... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: But I certainly agree that things such as buttons or control wheels all should function 120% perfect. ...which they patently don't. The troubles aren't with 100% mirrors or other complex features but with the most basic knobs and buttons. Their trigger button problems go back as far as my Program A and P50 of... well... when? 20 years ago or is it even more? Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
On 4/5/2011 11:37, Ralf R. Radermacher wrote: ...which they patently don't. The troubles aren't with 100% mirrors or other complex features but with the most basic knobs and buttons. Their trigger button problems go back as far as my Program A and P50 of... well... when? 20 years ago or is it even more? Makes me feel particularly young... Seriously however, I haven't yet experienced any significant mechanical failure of any of 4 DSLRs that I have/had... But it does not mean that they are faultless. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
On Apr 5, 2011, at 2:58 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: On 4/5/2011 11:37, Ralf R. Radermacher wrote: ...which they patently don't. The troubles aren't with 100% mirrors or other complex features but with the most basic knobs and buttons. Their trigger button problems go back as far as my Program A and P50 of... well... when? 20 years ago or is it even more? Makes me feel particularly young... Seriously however, I haven't yet experienced any significant mechanical failure of any of 4 DSLRs that I have/had... But it does not mean that they are faultless. Most of the problems I've had were with a piece of equipment made slightly over 50 years ago, and came without a warranty. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
Most of the problems I've had were with a piece of equipment made slightly over 50 years ago, and came without a warranty. one that can be made in minutes by cheap unskilled labor? well what do you expect? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
On Apr 5, 2011, at 3:49 AM, eckinator wrote: Most of the problems I've had were with a piece of equipment made slightly over 50 years ago, and came without a warranty. one that can be made in minutes by cheap unskilled labor? By my calculations it was about 380,000 minutes, though only about the last day of the process is usually referred to as labor. I do expect that while the initial assembly likely took less than an hour, the technicians involved may object to the term unskilled. well what do you expect? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
2011/4/5 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com: By my calculations it was about 380,000 minutes, though only about the last day of the process is usually referred to as labor. I do expect that while the initial assembly likely took less than an hour, the technicians involved may object to the term unskilled. by initial assembly you mean rod and barrel injection molding? if that takes less than an hour, unskilled is the word for it =P -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
On Apr 5, 2011, at 4:14 AM, eckinator wrote: 2011/4/5 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com: By my calculations it was about 380,000 minutes, though only about the last day of the process is usually referred to as labor. I do expect that while the initial assembly likely took less than an hour, the technicians involved may object to the term unskilled. by initial assembly you mean rod and barrel injection molding? if that takes less than an hour, unskilled is the word for it =P I have never discussed that aspect of the process with them. As to the rest, I was only in the factory once, it was quite dark, and being very young at the time, I don't really remember any of it. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
On 2011-04-05 05:09 , Larry Colen wrote: By my calculations it was about 380,000 minutes, though only about the last day of the process is usually referred to as labor. I do expect that while the initial assembly likely took less than an hour, the technicians involved may object to the term unskilled. however the process for building the factory was developed by trial and error after 7500 attempts (counting H. sapiens only) and most of us still have problems with our buttons being pushed -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
The sensor unit in my DS went bad after about 5 years. OTOH, my early adopter *ist D is still going. I sold my K10D after about 3 years to get the K7, so my experience with long term DSLRs is 50% 2011/4/4 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de: The OK button of my, or rather Michael's, K10D has stopped working. Just got the cost estimate for the repair: 310,45 euros My DS gave up after 4 years (rear thumbwheel erratic, repair too expensive), the K10D, 4 1/2 years old, is now beyond economical repair, my K-7 had been exchanged by the dealer and #2 needed a new trigger button after less than a year, and I'm at my 4th K-5 and counting... Is this just a strain of bad luck or is Pentax' quality really going down the drain? Or is an average economic lifetime of a mere 4 1/2 years for a DSLR a normal thing nowadays? Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
When the thumbwheel on my DS became erratic, I simply sprayed it with some Radioshack lubricating tuner cleaner.I figured what the hell. It's already broken. It's worked fine ever since. I don't think that will work on a K!0D what with the weather sealing but it might work. On 4/4/2011 3:02 PM, Ralf R. Radermacher wrote: The OK button of my, or rather Michael's, K10D has stopped working. Just got the cost estimate for the repair: 310,45 euros! My DS gave up after 4 years (rear thumbwheel erratic, repair too expensive), the K10D, 4 1/2 years old, is now beyond economical repair, my K-7 had been exchanged by the dealer and #2 needed a new trigger button after less than a year, and I'm at my 4th K-5 and counting... Is this just a strain of bad luck or is Pentax' quality really going down the drain? Or is an average economic lifetime of a mere 4 1/2 years for a DSLR a normal thing nowadays? Ralf -- Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom! --Marvin the Martian. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
2011/4/4 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de: The OK button of my, or rather Michael's, K10D has stopped working. Just got the cost estimate for the repair: 310,45 euros! My DS gave up after 4 years (rear thumbwheel erratic, repair too expensive), the K10D, 4 1/2 years old, is now beyond economical repair, my K-7 had been exchanged by the dealer and #2 needed a new trigger button after less than a year, and I'm at my 4th K-5 and counting... Is this just a strain of bad luck or is Pentax' quality really going down the drain? Or is an average economic lifetime of a mere 4 1/2 years for a DSLR a normal thing nowadays? Ralf Maybe Ralf. Although my D1 is 11 years old and still kicking.:-) Dave -- Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
2011/4/4 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de: The OK button of my, or rather Michael's, K10D has stopped working. Just got the cost estimate for the repair: 310,45 euros! My DS gave up after 4 years (rear thumbwheel erratic, repair too expensive), the K10D, 4 1/2 years old, is now beyond economical repair, my K-7 had been exchanged by the dealer and #2 needed a new trigger button after less than a year, and I'm at my 4th K-5 and counting... Is this just a strain of bad luck or is Pentax' quality really going down the drain? Or is an average economic lifetime of a mere 4 1/2 years for a DSLR a normal thing nowadays? Ralf I hate to repeat myself, but I've owned six Pentax DSLRs, with well over 100,000 exposures total and have yet to experience a failure of any kind. Perhaps it is bad luck, although i see plenty of complaints. Paul -- Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: When the thumbwheel on my DS became erratic, I simply sprayed it with some Radioshack lubricating tuner cleaner. I've done the same but many people will never know of this option. I suppose a number of DS have already been binned. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
... and have yet to experience a failure of any kind. Perhaps it is bad luck.. Mark! :-) Igor Mon Apr 4 16:29:23 CDT 2011 Paul Stenquist wrote: I hate to repeat myself, but I've owned six Pentax DSLRs, with well over 100,000 exposures total and have yet to experience a failure of any kind. Perhaps it is bad luck, although i see plenty of complaints. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: More Pentax quality grief
On Apr 4, 2011, at 2:29 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: 2011/4/4 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de: The OK button of my, or rather Michael's, K10D has stopped working. Just got the cost estimate for the repair: 310,45 euros! My DS gave up after 4 years (rear thumbwheel erratic, repair too expensive), the K10D, 4 1/2 years old, is now beyond economical repair, my K-7 had been exchanged by the dealer and #2 needed a new trigger button after less than a year, and I'm at my 4th K-5 and counting... Is this just a strain of bad luck or is Pentax' quality really going down the drain? Or is an average economic lifetime of a mere 4 1/2 years for a DSLR a normal thing nowadays? Ralf I hate to repeat myself, but I've owned six Pentax DSLRs, with well over 100,000 exposures total and have yet to experience a failure of any kind. Perhaps it is bad luck, although i see plenty of complaints. I'm on my fourth, with a combined total of about 150,000, with no problems on the bodies that weren't due to my fault (or at least the asphalt). My AF540 on the other hand -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: More Pentax quality grief
My *ist-D (2004) has only one problem, the review won't go to magnifying more than 1.2 fold, other than that everything is perfect. My MZ-S had a CLA last year, the first since I bought it in ?2001?, when it failed to switch on, otherwise everything works as designed. My SV is like a Swiss watch! Bought it second-hand in 1999 - provenance known to be from a careful owner. My first SV never needed attention in seven years - then it was stolen. I think you have either had very bad luck or work your cameras beyond their design life! John Coyle Brisbane, Australia -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Ralf R. Radermacher Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2011 5:03 AM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: More Pentax quality grief The OK button of my, or rather Michael's, K10D has stopped working. Just got the cost estimate for the repair: 310,45 euros! My DS gave up after 4 years (rear thumbwheel erratic, repair too expensive), the K10D, 4 1/2 years old, is now beyond economical repair, my K-7 had been exchanged by the dealer and #2 needed a new trigger button after less than a year, and I'm at my 4th K-5 and counting... Is this just a strain of bad luck or is Pentax' quality really going down the drain? Or is an average economic lifetime of a mere 4 1/2 years for a DSLR a normal thing nowadays? Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
