Re: [PEIRCE-L] List moderator;s request for a pause in the 'mark' v. 'tone' discussion, Classifying Signs (was Mark Token Type)
Gary was not on your recipient list but you obviously intended for him to receive it. Peirce-l doesn't receive your messages, at least for the time being. - Ben On 4/22/2024 3:53 PM, John F Sowa wrote: Gary and Ben, Why do you insist on punishing me instead of Jon? Or both? You asked me to forward any note to Jon to you for prior approval. I went one step further. I promised that I would never again send or reply to any note by Jon. As you may have seen, my notes to everybody else are perfectly fine. The reason why I continued that thread is for one very simple reason: I refused to let Jon have the last word. There are many prominent Peirce scholars, who subscribed in former years and some who continue to subscribe but do not send any notes. As some have explained (offline to me), there is one very annoying reason: Jon never allows anybody to have the last word. Just look back at many, many threads. In every thread in which Jon is involved, he has the last word. And that is not because he had he stronger argument. In many notes on very interesting threads, somebody will make one remark that Jon disagrees with. He'll respond to that point with "a barrage of quotations" (as Robert Marty said) and ignore all the other issues. And he continues on that narrow thread until the other person stops -- usually from exhaustion or disgust. You asked me to forward any note to Jon to you for prior approval. I went one step further. I promised that I would never again send or reply to any note by Jon. As you may have seen, my notes to everybody else are perfectly fine. So please restore by access to P-List. I guarantee that there will never again be any note from me that anybody might complain about. And since I cannot say anything to Jon, I recommend that you make one suggestion to him: Please imitate Socrates, especially as Plato portrays him in the early essays Socrates never contradicts anyone. He just ask questions. For people whose ideas are erroneous, inconsistent, or poorly thought out, their answers quickly get them tied up in knots. If Jon were to imitate Socrates, he could state all his comments and quotations as questions -- and often get much more interesting responses. Often from people who have very important new ways of looking at the old issues. John_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the links! ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
Re: [PEIRCE-L] List moderator;s request for a pause in the 'mark' v. 'tone' discussion, Classifying Signs (was Mark Token Type)
Ben, Gary, List, As I said in my last note, this thread has wasted everybody's time for no useful purpose. The real expert on this topic is Tony Jappy, who has devoted years of research and publications to this topic. As I said in the first notes, Tony is the expert on this topic.. But he does not enjoy debates of this kind -- for very good reason . So I posted excerpts from Tony's writings. And I would have been happy to discuss those issues, which are far more important then just supporting a choice of one label (tone) vs another (mark). But Jon would never stop. He kept repeating the same claim over and over and over again. He would not even consider the issues that Tony had published in books and articles. In any case, Tony is the expert. If anybody has any doubts on these issues, discuss them with Tony offline. I have zero desire to continue. John _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the links! ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
Re: [PEIRCE-L] List moderator;s request for a pause in the 'mark' v. 'tone' discussion, Classifying Signs (was Mark Token Type)
Well said. Joe Ransdell would be proud. - Best, Ben On 4/20/2024 6:26 PM, Gary Richmond wrote: List, As Edwina accurately commented a few days ago, this exchange between John and Jon has become less a discussion and more a debate, so much so that I have commented -- now for the third time -- that it would seem to me that Peirce-L members now (and perhaps for some time now) have enough information in the form of argumentation and accompanying textual (and other) support to make up their own minds as to who has made the stronger case, John for 'mark' or Jon for 'tone'. Or perhaps it still remains a question in some Listers' minds. Or perhaps a certain ennui has settled in for some here leading to a sense of "so what?" or "who really cares?" or "enough already!" I personally have found the exchange stimulating and valuable. In any event, I am requesting that the two principal participants in the thread, Jon Alan Schmidt and John Sowa, as well as all others who have chimed in (including me), cease this particular discussion for now, including their not commenting on my decision as moderator for* all* to take a break from it. Should there be some good reason to take up the question again in the future, I would ask that the two principals first present that reasoning me off List. I would also ask that neither of them now attempt "to have the last word" in this matter. There are many topics of potential interest to members of Peirce-L such that I would hope that other List members, given a window of opportunity to suggest new topics for discussion, will indeed introduce them whether they result in a threaded discussion or not. Rarely have I suggested that certain participants were posting too frequently. But both Joe Ransdell and I finally had to intervene as List moderators in the interest of the Peirce-L community's well-being to say *just* that and to request in this case, that John and Jon post no more than twice a week for the next two weeks. Should either of them have questions regarding this action, I would ask them to please write me off List. The ideal for both Joe and me has always been that Peirce-L be as self-moderating as possible. But sometimes forms of participant *immoderation* calls for the moderator to step in the interest of the health of the List. I am doing so now. Best, Gary Richmond (writing as Peirce-L moderator, co-manager with Ben Udell) _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the links! ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the links! ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
