Re: Anti-Eurocentrism: Idealist Diversion from Anti-racism/anti-imperialism
At 09:34 AM 4/12/00 -0500, you wrote: The trick is to reverse cause and effect, and by attacking the effects (which exist purely in the superstructure of rarified scholastic dispute) we can soothe feelings wounded by our inability to oppose effectively the victories of racism and imperialism of the last few decades. It's not just a matter of the failure of a movement as much as its transformation in some cases: the idea of anti-Eurocentrism seems to go along with bureaucratic "solutions" to racism, as with administration-imposed "speech codes" which restrict the speech of students and faculty at some colleges. (Frankly, I don't know where these codes has actually taken hold. My impression is that most of such efforts failed to be accepted or survive. As we discussed a few weeks ago, at a place like Antioch College, speech codes can come from below.) Of course, this kind of transformation into a bureaucratic strategy indicates a kind of failure (though not necessarily for the careers of the administrators). Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: Anti-Eurocentrism: Idealist Diversion from Anti-racism/anti-imperialism
Carrol Cox wrote: The ongoing critique in scholastic circles of "euro-centrism" more and more appears as a member of that large family of ideological persuasions generally called "post-modernism," defined here as a purely academic compensation for the material defeats the movements of the '60s. An interesting but wrong observation. It is true that the very same people who hate postmodernism also hate anti-Eurocentrism. You can see this most clearly in the obsessions of New Republic magazine which has provided a platform for major assaults on both Judith Butler and Martin Bernal. But just because there is an attack on both parties, it logically false to assume that they represent the same sort of thing. Bernal's research is about correcting history. Butler's work has very little to do with history, as would be expected with any postmodernist. Marxism could have an ambivalent attitude toward the anti-Eurocentric scholars for obvious reasons. While the "Asiatic Mode of Production" has been pretty much shown to be a misguided effort, there are underlying tendencies in Marx and Engels which would explain how they arrived at the theory. I personally believe that they must be rooted out for Marxism to move forward. To put it succinctly as possible, the Marxist understanding of historical stages was pretty much adopted from bourgeois historians and social scientists of the 18th century with minor alterations. For a full explication of this, I recommend Meek's "Social Science and the Ignoble Savage." There are practical political questions that relate to the theoretical disputes. For example, Asian Marxists have had to grapple with questions such as the role of the bourgeosie. If the Asiatic Mode of Production has some merit, then why not champion European colonization to some extent? Louis Proyect (The Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org)
Re: Anti-Eurocentrism: Idealist Diversion from Anti-racism/anti-imperialism
"eurocentrism" needs to be retired from our vocabulary, since it acts only to deflect attention from the ills it pretends to name. Carrol Term 'eurocentrism' is problematic although conception that eurocentrism is colonizer's model of world (as jim blaut, no postmodernist, calls it) seesm generally agreeable. Term can, however, flatten complexity of european culture and history that includes peripheral regions, social classes, marginalized and stigmatized peoples. Simplistic inversion positing europe as 'evil' and turning colonialist model on its head remains eurocentric since focus remains on Europe (and lets third world elites off hook). Michael Hoover
Re: Re: Anti-Eurocentrism: Idealist Diversion from Anti-racism/anti-imperialism
Term 'eurocentrism' is problematic although conception that eurocentrism is colonizer's model of world (as jim blaut, no postmodernist, calls it) seesm generally agreeable. Term can, however, flatten complexity of european culture and history that includes peripheral regions, social classes, marginalized and stigmatized peoples. Simplistic inversion positing europe as 'evil' and turning colonialist model on its head remains eurocentric since focus remains on Europe (and lets third world elites off hook). Michael Hoover These points are made most forcefully in Aijaz Ahmad's "In Theory", which includes a rather bitter attack on Edward Said. I have to mention that I just came back from the Columbia Library and was browsing through Samir Amin's reply to "Re-Orient" that appeared in V.3 1999 of "Review", Wallerstein's journal. I saw that he had the good sense to agree with me on the matter of Frank falling into a cyclical view of history. Amin also mentions that he gave the Asiatic Mode of Production a good biffing back in 1957, but still insists that Marx is essential for understanding world history. I can't disagree. Louis Proyect (The Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org)
Re: Anti-Eurocentrism: Idealist Diversion from Anti-racism/anti-imperialism
I think, I agree with everything that Carrol says. It is a point that I have tried to make several times, although much less elegantly. The responses that I have seen so far seem to miss the point (in my opinion) of Carrol's post and of Marx and Engels' critique of critical criticism. Building a socialist society, involves building socialist institutions and socialist social and production relations. Naming calling lets off frustration, but silencing an "opponent" is a pretty hollow victory. And advances the cause not at all. And then, there are those who delight in disrupting left discourse, with shouting denunciations of ill defined crimes, that the perpetrator couldn't possible understand or avoid. Rod Carrol Cox wrote: The ongoing critique in scholastic circles of "euro-centrism" more and more appears as a member of that large family of ideological persuasions generally called "post-modernism," defined here as a purely academic compensation for the material defeats the movements of the '60s Karl and Frederick described this sort of maneuver rather well in *The German Ideology*. If we can no longer (or so it seems) win real battles against racism and imperialism, we can invent specialized areas of scholastic dispute in which we can win brilliant battles against imaginary opponents. The trick is to reverse cause and effect, and by attacking the effects (which exist purely in the superstructure of rarified scholastic dispute) we can soothe feelings wounded by our inability to oppose effectively the victories of racism and imperialism of the last few decades. Along with other postmodern jargon, "eurocentrism" needs to be retired from our vocabulary, since it acts only to deflect attention from the ills it pretends to name. Carrol -- Rod Hay [EMAIL PROTECTED] The History of Economic Thought Archive http://socserv2.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/index.html Batoche Books http://Batoche.co-ltd.net/ 52 Eby Street South Kitchener, Ontario N2G 3L1 Canada
Re: Re: Anti-Eurocentrism: Idealist Diversion from Anti-racism/anti-imperialism
Naming calling lets off frustration, but silencing an "opponent" is a pretty hollow victory. And advances the cause not at all. And then, there are those who delight in disrupting left discourse, with shouting denunciations of ill defined crimes, that the perpetrator couldn't possible understand or avoid. Rod This is not about "name-calling". It is about whether the Asiatic Mode of Production is a valid scientific view or something mired in Eurocentric conceptions of the early 19th century. The whole point of Frank's scholarship (and Blaut's) is to refute this theory and the generally inaccurate--and often racist--world view it is built on. Let me repeat. This is about the Asiatic Mode of Production, not "political correctness". Louis Proyect (The Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org)
Re: Re: Anti-Eurocentrism: Idealist Diversion from Anti-racism/anti-imperialism
Rod Hay wrote: I think, I agree with everything that Carrol says. It is a point that I have tried to make several times, although much less elegantly. The responses that I have seen so far seem to miss the point (in my opinion) of Carrol's post and of Marx and Engels' critique of critical criticism. Building a socialist society, involves building socialist institutions and socialist social and production relations. Naming calling lets off frustration, but silencing an "opponent" is a pretty hollow victory. And advances the cause not at all. And then, there are those who delight in disrupting left discourse, with shouting denunciations of ill defined crimes, that the perpetrator couldn't possible understand or avoid. You and/or Carrol mind citing some examples of what you're condemning? Doug
Re: Anti-Eurocentrism: Idealist Diversion from Anti-racism/anti-imperialism
At 09:34 12/04/00 -0500, Carrol wrote: The ongoing critique in scholastic circles of "euro-centrism" more and more appears as a member of that large family of ideological persuasions generally called "post-modernism," defined here as a purely academic compensation for the material defeats the movements of the '60s Karl and Frederick described this sort of maneuver rather well in *The German Ideology*. If we can no longer (or so it seems) win real battles against racism and imperialism, we can invent specialized areas of scholastic dispute in which we can win brilliant battles against imaginary opponents. A blunt and valuable challenge, even though I agree with most of those who have contributed, in saying that Eurocentrism is an important concept. Another angle I suggest, can come by comparing the concept with that of the anthropic fallacy in cosmology. - that our perceptions of history are limited and over-influenced by our awareness of where we are now. We tend to forget the other possible and in fact probable social formations. It is an argument against a unilinear view of history and in favour of a probabilistic one. This is still entirely compatible with the fundamental approach of Marx and Engels. Chris Burford London
