Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Steve Mynott]

On 21 July 2017 at 09:07, Mark Carter  wrote:
> I noticed that there is no Windows 32-bit version of rakudo, and it won't
> even compile on cygwin.

Returning the thread to the original topic of Rakudo (not Star)

http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/#Installing-Rakudo-Star-Cygwin

explains why Rakudo doesn't compile on Cygwin ( both 32 bit and 64
bit) since pthread_barrier isn't available on cygwin.

There is a fork of cygwin called mingw which works (since it doesn't
pretend to be POSIX). This is bundled with Strawberry Perl which is
convenient since you only have to install one tool rather than two.

32 bit Windows should compile Rakudo if you install Strawberry Perl
and have both gcc and gmake in the path. Note you need to use cmd.exe
as a shell (not bash) and gmake rather than Window's usual nmake.


-- 
4096R/EA75174B Steve Mynott 

Re: Fwd: Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Brandon Allbery]

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Darren Duncan 
wrote:

> On 2017-07-25 2:08 PM, Steve Mynott wrote:
>
>> To clarify Rakudo itself *should* compile on 32 bit Windows systems
>> (using either MSVC or mingw and maybe cygwin).
>>
>> The problem with Rakudo Star is that some of the C based modules
>> probably don't work.
>>
>
> So is it feasible to remove those modules from Rakudo Star?
>

Linenoise makes the REPL a lot more usable, and is generally easier to get
online on Windows than readline.

-- 
brandon s allbery kf8nh   sine nomine associates
allber...@gmail.com  ballb...@sinenomine.net
unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonadhttp://sinenomine.net

Re: Fwd: Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Darren Duncan]

On 2017-07-25 2:08 PM, Steve Mynott wrote:

To clarify Rakudo itself *should* compile on 32 bit Windows systems
(using either MSVC or mingw and maybe cygwin).

The problem with Rakudo Star is that some of the C based modules
probably don't work.


So is it feasible to remove those modules from Rakudo Star?

What manner of functionality are they?  Would their lack be a problem for most 
people?


It seems to me that one of these things should happen:

1. Modules that don't work with all platforms normally supported by a Rakudo 
Star distribution get dropped from Rakudo Star.


2. Win32 is dropped from the main list of Rakudo Star distributions.

3. The problematic modules are expressly excluded from the Win32 distros, and 
this fact is documented, while there can otherwise be up to date Win32 distros 
with the core and all other features besides these modules.


If the modules you describe are considered essential, they should receive 
updates to run with Win32; otherwise they should be dropped from Star as they 
are clearly not considered that essential.


Dropped modules can still be installed separately as add-ons where they work.

-- Darren Duncan

Re: Fwd: Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Steve Mynott]

To clarify Rakudo itself *should* compile on 32 bit Windows systems
(using either MSVC or mingw and maybe cygwin).

The problem with Rakudo Star is that some of the C based modules
probably don't work.

S

On 25 July 2017 at 20:46, Brandon Allbery  wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Mark Carter  wrote:
>>
>> On 25/07/2017 20:31, Darren Duncan wrote:
>>>
>>> I would question why any desktop computer manufacturers were still even
>>> shipping non-64-bit capable hardware in 2010.
>>
>> I dual-boot (rarely) with it, and it runs 64-bit Ubuntu. I am using a
>> Dell, which came with 32-bit Win 7.
>
>
> For quite a long time, the "common wisdom" was that 64 bit was a waste of
> memory on smaller machines and caused compatibility problems, so
> 64-bit-capable hardware running 32-bit OSes was quite common.
>
> (For Windows the latter is actually true, insofar as 64 bit processes can't
> load 32 bit DLLs and 32 bit programs are actually run in a minimal
> hypervisor on Win10. This was less well developed when Win7 was current; the
> hypervisor only ran WinXP iirc, not 32 bit W7.)
>
> --
> brandon s allbery kf8nh   sine nomine associates
> allber...@gmail.com  ballb...@sinenomine.net
> unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonadhttp://sinenomine.net



-- 
4096R/EA75174B Steve Mynott 

Re: Fwd: Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Brandon Allbery]

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Mark Carter  wrote:

> On 25/07/2017 20:31, Darren Duncan wrote:
>
>> I would question why any desktop computer manufacturers were still even
>> shipping non-64-bit capable hardware in 2010.
>>
> I dual-boot (rarely) with it, and it runs 64-bit Ubuntu. I am using a
> Dell, which came with 32-bit Win 7.
>

For quite a long time, the "common wisdom" was that 64 bit was a waste of
memory on smaller machines and caused compatibility problems, so
64-bit-capable hardware running 32-bit OSes was quite common.

(For Windows the latter is actually true, insofar as 64 bit processes can't
load 32 bit DLLs and 32 bit programs are actually run in a minimal
hypervisor on Win10. This was less well developed when Win7 was current;
the hypervisor only ran WinXP iirc, not 32 bit W7.)

-- 
brandon s allbery kf8nh   sine nomine associates
allber...@gmail.com  ballb...@sinenomine.net
unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonadhttp://sinenomine.net

Re: Fwd: Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Mark Carter]

On 25/07/2017 20:31, Darren Duncan wrote:
I would question why any desktop computer manufacturers were still 
even shipping non-64-bit capable hardware in 2010.
I dual-boot (rarely) with it, and it runs 64-bit Ubuntu. I am using a 
Dell, which came with 32-bit Win 7.

Re: Fwd: Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Darren Duncan]

I would question why any desktop computer manufacturers were still even shipping 
non-64-bit capable hardware in 2010.


Apple Macintoshes were 64 bit Intel across the board in 2006, or 11 years ago. 
People like to accuse Apple of being constantly behind the curve on hardware 
compared to other PC makers, and yet other makers were shipping 32 bit only 
still 4 years after Apple stopped?


-- Darren Duncan

On 2017-07-25 12:16 PM, Mark Carter wrote:

On 2017-07-25 11:05 AM, Mark Carter wrote:


On 25/07/2017 18:34, Darren Duncan wrote:


How often would someone reasonably be using a cutting edge tool like Rakudo on
Windows without having a 64 bit Windows these days?


Thing is, I have a computer from 2010, Win 7 32-bit. It's fast enough for me,
and does what I want it to do. I'm not going to spend money just to run Perl6.
It doesn't even compile on cygwin.

Python is available in 32-bit. Why not perl6?

Fwd: Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Mark Carter]

On 2017-07-25 11:05 AM, Mark Carter wrote:



On 25/07/2017 18:34, Darren Duncan wrote:



How often would someone reasonably be using a cutting edge tool like Rakudo on
Windows without having a 64 bit Windows these days?


Thing is, I have a computer from 2010, Win 7 32-bit. It's fast enough for me,
and does what I want it to do. I'm not going to spend money just to run Perl6.
It doesn't even compile on cygwin.

Python is available in 32-bit. Why not perl6?

Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Darren Duncan]

I recommend removing the reference/link to the Rakudo Star 32 bit Windows 
installer from http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ and leave only platforms 
that are reasonably up to date.


The old 32 bit Windows installers can still be in the archives of course, but 
grouping it with the other installers that are 1.5 years newer and gaining isn't 
doing anyone any favors.  The highlighted ones should be in sync on 
functionality.  This link could return if the 32 bit Windows catches up.


How often would someone reasonably be using a cutting edge tool like Rakudo on 
Windows without having a 64 bit Windows these days?


-- Darren Duncan

On 2017-07-23 10:29 AM, Steve Mynott wrote:

Rakudo itself probably does compile on Windows 32-bit (or least it did
last time I tried it).

But here is no Rakudo Star 32 bit MSI due to problems with modules not
working -- I think linenoise failed to compile last time I tried it
(and I believe it only works under GCC not MSVC on 64 bit).

I'm afraid there  is a lot of bitrot with modules not working under
Windows I'm afraid in general (both 64 bit and 32 bit).

We really need a volunteer Windows programmer to take a look at things
since most of us run under various UNIX type OSes regularly rather
than Windows.


S


On 21 July 2017 at 10:37, Todd Chester  wrote:



On 07/21/2017 01:57 AM, Mark Carter wrote:




On 21/07/2017 09:50, Todd Chester wrote:



I may be wrong, but I do believe what you want is called
"Rakudo Star".  You can download it from

https://rakudo.perl6.org/downloads/star/


But no recent win 32-bit.



https://rakudo.perl6.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2016.01-x86%20(no%20JIT).msi

seems to be the last one

Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Todd Chester]

On 07/21/2017 01:57 AM, Mark Carter wrote:



On 21/07/2017 09:50, Todd Chester wrote:


I may be wrong, but I do believe what you want is called
"Rakudo Star".  You can download it from

https://rakudo.perl6.org/downloads/star/

But no recent win 32-bit.


https://rakudo.perl6.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2016.01-x86%20(no%20JIT).msi

seems to be the last one

Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Mark Carter]

On 21/07/2017 09:50, Todd Chester wrote:


I may be wrong, but I do believe what you want is called
"Rakudo Star".  You can download it from

https://rakudo.perl6.org/downloads/star/

But no recent win 32-bit.

Re: Is win 32 being worked on?

[Todd Chester]

On 07/21/2017 01:07 AM, Mark Carter wrote:
I noticed that there is no Windows 32-bit version of rakudo, and it 
won't even compile on cygwin.


Are there plans for fixing this?



Hi Mark,

I may be wrong, but I do believe what you want is called
"Rakudo Star".  You can download it from

https://rakudo.perl6.org/downloads/star/

HTH,
-T

Is win 32 being worked on?

[Mark Carter]

I noticed that there is no Windows 32-bit version of rakudo, and it 
won't even compile on cygwin.


Are there plans for fixing this?