Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
Hi there, Sokhan's dictionary is a first of its kind in Persian, since it gives the definitions of the words, rather than synonyms, which earlier works did. So, despite its deficiencies, I think it is a useful starting point. I understand Connie's point about the absence of vowels, etc., and I think that's an intrinsic problem for the learners of Persian, as usually harakaat are not written in Persian. The problem with encoding Persian into computer is rather fundamental though, as there is no standard yet, not even for use in every-day life, such as writing combinations (should we write a word like bi-maaye attached or separately? What about bi-kaar? ...). These are things that make things difficult in computer programs, especially for searching purposes. Please see a very well written article by Dr Masoumi-Hamedani in a recent issue of Nashr-e Danesh for this matter (don't have the exact reference). Yet another comment about making Persian dictionaries electronic (of course if somebody is up to it): there are now more progressive dictionaries than Aryanpour's, for example Hezareh, as it has more diversity in selecting word equivalents, and is more comprehensive. Best, Pedram On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, C Bobroff wrote: On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Pedram Safari wrote: I do not know about pronunciation, but the dictionary at http://www.math.columbia.edu/~safari/dictionary/ (which was discussed above) is transliteration-based (using the so-called mikhi alphabet, available on the right side of the page), if that is what you want. It is platform-independent, as well as use-to-use (clickable). Pedram, Thanks but it's not what I need. First of all, I've actually been a *user* of this dictionary especially a few years ago when it was one of the ONLY online Persian dictionaries and I don't remember it ever being down or not working! I even had to write a report for some governmental agency on the state of online Persian materials in which I explained that on one hand this sort of dictionary is really only for Persian speakers wanting to learn English. Think of it: no vowels (harakat), no tashdid's. Is it not absurd that a dictionary should have half the letters missing?! On the other hand, due to the lack of textbooks with proper lists of vocabulary, the poor beginning students of Persian are forced to waste their time flipping through paper dictionaries which leads to fatigue and they don't have any energy left to actually *learn* the words. Therefore, I concluded this dictionary is much better than nothing at all. My professor even asked me to find out exactly which dictionary it was and that's how I came to know it was the Aryanpour Concise English-Persian dictionary and had that answer at the ready when Behdad asked the other day! ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Nazanin
On Sun, 2004-06-06 at 09:53, C Bobroff wrote: For making documents to print on paper or to be used as graphics, your best bet is still Borna Rayaneh: http://www.bornaray.com/en_fonts.asp?fn=per_fontsrfn=en_fontsparent=fontslistGrand=Main I really believe that the current FarsiWeb fonts are much better than Borna ones in standards conformance and quality. The variety is less, of course. Note: these fonts are in the beta-testing stage and are not perfect yet even though the Farsiweb staff has hundreds of thousands of staff members on the job. (Just kidding, I think there are 2 or 3 people total??) Less than that. Staff were working on that, but the fonts will not be changed much more. Apart from fixing bugs (that Behnam Esfahbod and I will do), there is some legal cleanup, adding history, etc. The greatest mystery of all: How can it be that the Iranian community in the United States which is the richest and most prosperous immigrant community of all has not bothered to get together and have a proper Persian font made and instead are waiting for Microsoft to provide it? Maybe them not spending for such projects has made them the richest? ;) roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 20:41, Pedram Safari wrote: The problem with encoding Persian into computer is rather fundamental though, as there is no standard yet, not even for use in every-day life, You raise a valid point, but please note that this is not about encoding, but about *orthography*. Every publisher has the same problems, even if he doesn't use a computer to typeset his text. Please see a very well written article by Dr Masoumi-Hamedani in a recent issue of Nashr-e Danesh for this matter (don't have the exact reference). We can try to scan the article and post the link to the list. BTW, Dr Masoumi-Hamedani has changed his stance on the matter recently, it seems. I heard this from him last Monday, but he didn't have the time to elaborate on the matter then. I can't get his exact opinion either, since he should be in France now and he's not coming back until about two months later, it seems. for example Hezareh, as it has more diversity in selecting word equivalents, and is more comprehensive. I agree that Hezareh is a good superset of Aryanpour. But the equivalents Persian terms are not always as good as Bateni. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Sun, 2004-06-06 at 10:04, C Bobroff wrote: On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: There are many claims that this doesn't add anything to the Mo'in Persian dictionary, How is that possible when it's physically twice as big? Well, I was not talking literally. Doesn't add *much* may be better wording. The claim is that the work is based on Moin's heavily, and the new parts are not comparable in quality to Moin's work, with wrong etymologies, bad definitions, etc. And now Pedram informs us it has a different approach, namely *definitions* rather than *synonyms*. I can't confirm the definition vs synonyms part. I need to go ask, or check. I don't have either Moin's or Sokhan. We use Sadri-Afshar's Farhang-e Faarsi-e Emrooz mainly in FarsiWeb, since it has the modern sense of the words (but is sometimes inadequate, specially when decoding legal texts). Waste is what's in our favor here! Sokhan stands to lose no money if they just hand over the data and all rights. I don't agree. I believe the publisher has long time commercial interest in this (and won't be able to understand that this will actually help his sales, too). It will be good publicity for them! It will be. I'm sure it has a million defects. For example, I found one word ghash-gir meaning book-end and tried to use that on my Iranian friends but they'd never heard of it. (I'm not sure if the word was incorrect or you don't have book-ends in Iran! You know, the support you put at the end of your shelf to keep your books from toppling over...) Don't test these things on those Iranian friends next time, then. They seem to not have heard many other things also ;-) BTW, the word is the only one I know for a book-end. And no, I personally don't use the thing because my shelfs are always more than full, but that thing is clearly called ghash-gir if someone knows the device and its name. I don't know any other Persian word for it. I don't know if all the modern words have been approved by the Academy. No one cares for that, in a dictionary. A good dictionary should have all the Academy-approved words, but it should list all the words in usage, approved by the slow Academy or not. Dictionaries get superceded rapidly ... Not in Iran. Even if we want to be inclusive, there are only a few usable Persian dictionaries: Dehkhoda's, Sokhan, Amid's, Moin's, and Emrooz. That's all! And the only ones that *may* get updated are Sokhan and Emrooz. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: MS Word?!! You really believe a professional publisher can prepare Persian print quality books in MS Word?! I just thought the typist had used MS Word, then exported to Excel and then to some publishing program. That was in response to Behdad mentioning typing. I didn't think there would be any typing involved. Don't know about Zarnegar. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: new parts are not comparable in quality to Moin's work, with wrong etymologies, bad definitions, etc. That would be a problem. However, the bad entries can be edited out as they are discovered. I don't agree. I believe the publisher has long time commercial interest in this (and won't be able to understand that this will actually help his sales, too). I wonder! full, but that thing is clearly called ghash-gir if someone knows the device and its name. Thank you for clearing that up! No one cares for that, in a dictionary. A good dictionary should have all the Academy-approved words, but it should list all the words in usage, approved by the slow Academy or not. They can also be added as they get approved. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
