[Phono-L] DD Metal Finishes
It seems there is some confusion, at least on my part, regarding the finishes on DD reproducers and horn necks, etc. Obviously there is no question what is gold or nickel. Oxidized bronze is another question. What the company called oxidized bronze was the finish used up until the very end of production, even used on the C-1 and C-2 combinations. A very early DD finish may also seem to be called oxidized bronze by some. This has a body that is almost black with copper markings, somewhat like tiger markings. Is this what some refer to as oxidized bronze? Was this used on the early A-250 and is this is what's on Andy's machine? Does this color have a name different from oxidized bronze? If I had to come up with a name for it, it would be 'oxidized tiger bronze'. (that's what it looks like to me:-) Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me. Bruce From gpaul2...@aol.com Sat Jun 23 11:11:51 2007 From: gpaul2...@aol.com (gpaul2...@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 23 11:12:54 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] DD Metal Finishes In-Reply-To: 000a01c7b5a9$257abe10$af9bb...@vaio References: 000a01c7b5a9$257abe10$af9bb...@vaio Message-ID: 8c983d91b5e4ddf-1644-d...@webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com Bruce, The Edison catalogs described the finish of the metal parts on the Amberola IA/IB, Idelia, A-150, etc as oxidized bronze. You point out that This has a body that is almost black with copper markings, somewhat like tiger markings. Edison literature called it oxidized bronze, so that's what I have always called it. I have observed collectors refer to gunmetal as oxidized bronze and apply the name to other metal finishes as well. It's no wonder some confusion exists! George Paul AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From pjfra...@alamedanet.net Sat Jun 23 12:02:34 2007 From: pjfra...@alamedanet.net (Peter Fraser) Date: Sat Jun 23 12:05:44 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] the early a-250 References: bae519f8-7d62-4007-a215-4a706ae57...@mac.com Message-ID: 4a4d2598-ff3a-4ec6-91eb-5c0a51870...@alamedanet.net Hi - Well, I heard back from Ron Dethlefson, and enclose his response below. And here are the pictures of Andy's machine, plus some additional oxidozed bronze hardware pix from Bruce Mercer: http://homepage.mac.com/pjfraser/phono/PhotoAlbum233.html the password is pook2e (no quotes). For large-scale versions of the pix, use the slideshow button, or single-click the individual shot in which you're interested. Cheers, Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net Begin forwarded message: From: ronald dethlefson r2d...@pacbell.net Date: June 23, 2007 9:53:26 AM PDT To: Peter Fraser pjfra...@mac.com Subject: Re: pictures of the early a-250 Nephew, Yes, the stop mechanism shown is the first one. It's the same as on my A-250 #161. I've seen these mechanisms on #158 and #171. They probably were on the first 200 A250s manufactured in late 1912, according to Frow. A250s through #1200 were manufactured by March 1913, again according to Frow. The sound vents in the sides of the cabinets ended about #1200 too. I suspect that the stop mechanism was changed due to some patent issue. So much of the factory documentation was destroyed in the Dec. 1914 fire that the only way to document changes in Model A pnonographs is to look at the machines themselves. At least we now know that the first stop mechanism, was in use into the 1400 range of serial numbers. One other Model A tidbit. I've never seen a Model A 250 numbered lower than #109. This leads me to suspect that serial numbers began with 100. The highest Model A 250 serial number I've ever seen was in the mid-12,000 range of numbers. Regards, Uncle On Jun 22, 2007, at 11:58 PM, Peter Fraser wrote: Early_A_250_levers.jpg Early_A_250_levers Later_A-250_controls.jpg Later_A-250_controls A_250_bedplate_detail.jpg A_250_bedplate_detail -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com
[Phono-L] DD Metal Finishes
I was starting to wonder about this myself! Seems like there were at least two if not three variations of the oxidized bronze finish -- the Idelia's tiger stripes, the Opera's broken glass pattern, and the ringlet finish in these pictures of Andy's DD reproducer. Any specifics on these patterns, or was all that info lost in the fire as well? Best, Robert - Original Message - From: gpaul2...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] DD Metal Finishes Bruce, The Edison catalogs described the finish of the metal parts on the Amberola IA/IB, Idelia, A-150, etc as oxidized bronze. You point out that This has a body that is almost black with copper markings, somewhat like tiger markings. Edison literature called it oxidized bronze, so that's what I have always called it. I have observed collectors refer to gunmetal as oxidized bronze and apply the name to other metal finishes as well. It's no wonder some confusion exists! George Paul AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] DD Metal Finishes
The pattern is done by hand after the part is plated and then oxidized. The color will vary between a dark brown to almost black depending on the chemicals used to darken the copper plate. After the part is washed it is then polished with very fine polishing compound in spots to from the pattern. It is a very common finishing technique. On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:16:56 -0500, Robert Wright wrote: I was starting to wonder about this myself! Seems like there were at least two if not three variations of the oxidized bronze finish -- the Idelia's tiger stripes, the Opera's broken glass pattern, and the ringlet finish in these pictures of Andy's DD reproducer. Any specifics on these patterns, or was all that info lost in the fire as well? Best, Robert - Original Message - From: gpaul2...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] DD Metal Finishes Bruce, The Edison catalogs described the finish of the metal parts on the Amberola IA/IB, Idelia, A-150, etc as oxidized bronze. You point out that This has a body that is almost black with copper markings, somewhat like tiger markings. Edison literature called it oxidized bronze, so that's what I have always called it. I have observed collectors refer to gunmetal as oxidized bronze and apply the name to other metal finishes as well. It's no wonder some confusion exists! George Paul AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] DD Metal Finishes
i believe these were at the whim of the individual worker. this technique is not exclusive to Edison or to phonographs - it was just a common decorative finish of the early 20th century, and the patterns were hand applied. i had it explained to me once...something to do with selective blocking of the oxidation process by putting on a coating of some sort, which allowed the copper underneath to be revealed as a pattern. On Jun 23, 2007, at 1:16 PM, Robert Wright wrote: I was starting to wonder about this myself! Seems like there were at least two if not three variations of the oxidized bronze finish -- the Idelia's tiger stripes, the Opera's broken glass pattern, and the ringlet finish in these pictures of Andy's DD reproducer. Any specifics on these patterns, or was all that info lost in the fire as well? Best, Robert - Original Message - From: gpaul2...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] DD Metal Finishes Bruce, The Edison catalogs described the finish of the metal parts on the Amberola IA/IB, Idelia, A-150, etc as oxidized bronze. You point out that This has a body that is almost black with copper markings, somewhat like tiger markings. Edison literature called it oxidized bronze, so that's what I have always called it. I have observed collectors refer to gunmetal as oxidized bronze and apply the name to other metal finishes as well. It's no wonder some confusion exists! George Paul _ ___ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
