Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Wikipedia is a joke. The generally accepted definition of antique, classic, special interest etc as it relates to automobiles is listed in Hemmings Motor news and was dreamed up by the collector groups themselves. Hemmings used to be and probably still is the reference for that and also was/is the forum for those groups. There is also a definition for trucks and its different. As all of this was actually related to the compensation for damage to phonographs that have been entrusted to UPS/FedEx/USPS etc and it is a very good idea to go read their definitions of what is and what is not covered as that is what you are agreeing to when you ship the package. Not the DMV, Hemmings, old tax code, or the wikipedia. That was my point and if some of you happen to think Wow. What a waste of energy, getting so defensive over a definition. then when you do not get reimbursed for an expensive machine that has been gleefully destroyed by the shipper, don't complain. The antique plates are for taking an older car or truck to car shows and not road use except in a couple of states. Then its for personal use including shows and demonstrations. The all are restricted as to use to some degree or another. It is more of a bureaucratic convenience as these old cars and trucks will not pass nor are required to pass the current safety and/or emissions laws. But the definition of antique/classic/special interest etc have been defined by the collector groups. Antique as it relates to cars and trucks is usually 1920 and older, or even older. Steven Medved wrote: Wikipedia. In Ohio you could get an antique plate for a car that was 25 years old or older, I suppose they figured it it hadn't rusted away it was special. For me an antique car is one in the early 1930's or earlier. It has been that way for me since the 1970's. A 1955 Chevy to me is a classic, not an antique. I guess I am stuck in time. The antique car crowd has very different ideas on what constitutes and antique car. Where did you find that definition? Steven Medved wrote: An item which is at least 50 to 100 years old and is collected or desirable due to rarity, condition, utility, or some other unique feature. Motor vehicles, power tools and other items subject to vigorous use in contrast, may be considered antiques in the U.S. if older than 25 years, and some electronic gadgets of more recent vintage may be considered antiques. From: esrobe...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 22:42:33 + Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
First, I think Steve had a good comment in that there are some pack/ship businesses who may provide better service and help to ensure things are A) packed well and B) covered if something happens. Thats why they call it insurance. I also believe the added expense sometimes is justified depending on what is being shipped. It certainly makes sense to ask all the right questions up front to be certain there are no issues when a problem comes up. In my specific case I provided a receipt specifying original payment amount at time of insuring the item before they would even insure it for that amount. The claim was submitted with same. To be honest, I was completely surprised how quick things went. To complete the rest of the story. it helped immensely to have pictures on the receiving end of the package showing damage to the outside. Open the box and another pick of the associated damage inside, etc. In my case, the box was left by UPS out in the middle of a driveway in the pouring rain. Perhaps stupidity trumps whether it was an antique or not or what its value is :) -Original Message- From: Bob rvu...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 6:08 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I once tried to ship a phonograph through UPS. When I tried to insure it for $1,000 they insisted that I haave an indipendent appraisal before they would insure it. This was before eBay so maybe things have changed. If you bring a copy of the eBay sale record is this sufficient to prove the value? - Original Message - From: ronbr...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I agree Peter. There are local UPS pack and ship stores that I have utilized this same method. Pack the item and hand it over to them where they box it for shipment. When insured for full value, they cough up a check with no questions asked. I believe my only claim through one local pack and ship store was resolved in about 7 - 10 days for about $4500.00. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
My definition of an antique car is one that has wheels with wooden spokes. Wikipedia is a joke. The generally accepted definition of antique, classic, special interest etc as it relates to automobiles is listed in Hemmings Motor news and was dreamed up by the collector groups themselves. Hemmings used to be and probably still is the reference for that and also was/is the forum for those groups. There is also a definition for trucks and its different. As all of this was actually related to the compensation for damage to phonographs that have been entrusted to UPS/FedEx/USPS etc and it is a very good idea to go read their definitions of what is and what is not covered as that is what you are agreeing to when you ship the package. Not the DMV, Hemmings, old tax code, or the wikipedia. That was my point and if some of you happen to think Wow. What a waste of energy, getting so defensive over a definition. then when you do not get reimbursed for an expensive machine that has been gleefully destroyed by the shipper, don't complain. The antique plates are for taking an older car or truck to car shows and not road use except in a couple of states. Then its for personal use including shows and demonstrations. The all are restricted as to use to some degree or another. It is more of a bureaucratic convenience as these old cars and trucks will not pass nor are required to pass the current safety and/or emissions laws. But the definition of antique/classic/special interest etc have been defined by the collector groups. Antique as it relates to cars and trucks is usually 1920 and older, or even older. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
They went out of vogue about 1928 or so. The actual definition that the car collectors use is a bit convoluted and has to do with age and features. It is broken down into sub-groups. Brass radiator, gas lights etc. Steven Medved wrote: My definition of an antique car is one that has wheels with wooden spokes. Wikipedia is a joke. The generally accepted definition of antique, classic, special interest etc as it relates to automobiles is listed in Hemmings Motor news and was dreamed up by the collector groups themselves. Hemmings used to be and probably still is the reference for that and also was/is the forum for those groups. There is also a definition for trucks and its different. As all of this was actually related to the compensation for damage to phonographs that have been entrusted to UPS/FedEx/USPS etc and it is a very good idea to go read their definitions of what is and what is not covered as that is what you are agreeing to when you ship the package. Not the DMV, Hemmings, old tax code, or the wikipedia. That was my point and if some of you happen to think Wow. What a waste of energy, getting so defensive over a definition. then when you do not get reimbursed for an expensive machine that has been gleefully destroyed by the shipper, don't complain. The antique plates are for taking an older car or truck to car shows and not road use except in a couple of states. Then its for personal use including shows and demonstrations. The all are restricted as to use to some degree or another. It is more of a bureaucratic convenience as these old cars and trucks will not pass nor are required to pass the current safety and/or emissions laws. But the definition of antique/classic/special interest etc have been defined by the collector groups. Antique as it relates to cars and trucks is usually 1920 and older, or even older. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I typically use Priority Mail or Fed Ex Ground. UPS has commonly damaged items so I don't use them at all. I have seen things fal off their conveyor system at the local shipping point. I have only had one damaged item with USPS and none with FedEx Ground. The one I had with USPS was almost unimaginable. I double boxed a phonograph with tons of packing material, yet in shipping part of the motor frame was broken. It took awhile to get that claim paid. John Robles --- On Fri, 1/1/10, Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com wrote: From: Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 7:17 PM Hi All, I hate to tell all of you this but there is no magic bullet. I have been in the art business for 35 years and have used FedX , UPS and others and the fact is that you gotta build a box that will take just about any form of bad treatment. One of my nephews grew up working 1st for FedX -4 years and UPS-6 years and now works for a speciality shipper and freight company that deals in special shipment of special goods. The stories he told of both companies made my head hurt and no matter what shipper I use I build a box that will make it almost anywhere and my last item still did not get there. They drive a fork lift arm right through it and I used 3/4 plywood for sides. 3 months later the customer got a ck for $15000.00. But they did EVERYTHING they could to keep from paying the claim. Photos showing how the crate was put together shamed them and a bit of advice from my nephew to stay on them at least twice a week really worked. For our phono's small units well packed under normal conditions should get there. Larger units, either know someone who can get it back to you- or pay the very high price of craters and freighters. On more expensive machines it is OK but on standard ones the freight charge can make it really to expensive to purchase a machine like a c-250. I am working through that on a machine now. But bottom line on a common carrier youse pays your money and takes your chances Happy New Year Abe On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Bill Boruff boru...@flash.net wrote: Steve- FedEx does not always use kid gloves when handling packages. During this past year I shipped a banner front Edison Home in 3 boxes with each carefully packed to withstand any rough handling. One box was for the case, one for the mechanism and one for the horn. The mechanism was badly damaged when the tines of a fork lift went completely through the center of its box. The motor frame was broken into pieces and the bolts holding the motor frame to the bedplate were sheared off. It was the last time I shipped a machine via FedEx! Bill On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Steven Medved wrote: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
i agree with you steve and it took me over a year to get a settlement from them for a victor m motor that was broken in transit best to all zono In a message dated 1/1/2010 5:04:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, steve_nor...@msn.com writes: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
hi all on bigger items, believe it or not, i have used greyhound and not had any problem and its very cost effective i agree on the fork lift problem i had one victor one cabinet sent to me from vermont to florida that had a gaping hole in the back of it from a fork lift and ups was the provider in this case zono In a message dated 1/1/2010 10:43:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, abefed...@gmail.com writes: Hi All, I hate to tell all of you this but there is no magic bullet. I have been in the art business for 35 years and have used FedX , UPS and others and the fact is that you gotta build a box that will take just about any form of bad treatment. One of my nephews grew up working 1st for FedX -4 years and UPS-6 years and now works for a speciality shipper and freight company that deals in special shipment of special goods. The stories he told of both companies made my head hurt and no matter what shipper I use I build a box that will make it almost anywhere and my last item still did not get there. They drive a fork lift arm right through it and I used 3/4 plywood for sides. 3 months later the customer got a ck for $15000.00. But they did EVERYTHING they could to keep from paying the claim. Photos showing how the crate was put together shamed them and a bit of advice from my nephew to stay on them at least twice a week really worked. For our phono's small units well packed under normal conditions should get there. Larger units, either know someone who can get it back to you- or pay the very high price of craters and freighters. On more expensive machines it is OK but on standard ones the freight charge can make it really to expensive to purchase a machine like a c-250. I am working through that on a machine now. But bottom line on a common carrier youse pays your money and takes your chances Happy New Year Abe On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Bill Boruff boru...@flash.net wrote: Steve- FedEx does not always use kid gloves when handling packages. During this past year I shipped a banner front Edison Home in 3 boxes with each carefully packed to withstand any rough handling. One box was for the case, one for the mechanism and one for the horn. The mechanism was badly damaged when the tines of a fork lift went completely through the center of its box. The motor frame was broken into pieces and the bolts holding the motor frame to the bedplate were sheared off. It was the last time I shipped a machine via FedEx! Bill On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Steven Medved wrote: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I used to use FedEx ground all the time. A couple of years ago I sold a very expensive machine to someone on the west coast. I wanted to insure it for $3000 but was informed by the clerk that the maximum insurance on antiques shipped FedEx Ground was $100.00. On FedEx Air the maximum was $500.00. this item was very well packed and I was more concerned with loss rather than damage so I decided to ship it Priority Mail. It was more expensive but I could insure it properly. I think this was about 3 years ago in January. When I checked FedEx on line they had indeed changed the rules about insuring antiques. It seems they were taking too many losses because of inexperienced shippers selling on line and not packing their items properly. I'm not selling that many things right now, but at the time I stopped using FedEx for expensive antique items. Have any of you run into this problem? I really like shipping with FedEx and would like to know if the insurance policies have been changed. Thanks - Original Message - From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I typically use Priority Mail or Fed Ex Ground. UPS has commonly damaged items so I don't use them at all. I have seen things fal off their conveyor system at the local shipping point. I have only had one damaged item with USPS and none with FedEx Ground. The one I had with USPS was almost unimaginable. I double boxed a phonograph with tons of packing material, yet in shipping part of the motor frame was broken. It took awhile to get that claim paid. John Robles --- On Fri, 1/1/10, Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com wrote: From: Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 7:17 PM Hi All, I hate to tell all of you this but there is no magic bullet. I have been in the art business for 35 years and have used FedX , UPS and others and the fact is that you gotta build a box that will take just about any form of bad treatment. One of my nephews grew up working 1st for FedX -4 years and UPS-6 years and now works for a speciality shipper and freight company that deals in special shipment of special goods. The stories he told of both companies made my head hurt and no matter what shipper I use I build a box that will make it almost anywhere and my last item still did not get there. They drive a fork lift arm right through it and I used 3/4 plywood for sides. 3 months later the customer got a ck for $15000.00. But they did EVERYTHING they could to keep from paying the claim. Photos showing how the crate was put together shamed them and a bit of advice from my nephew to stay on them at least twice a week really worked. For our phono's small units well packed under normal conditions should get there. Larger units, either know someone who can get it back to you- or pay the very high price of craters and freighters. On more expensive machines it is OK but on standard ones the freight charge can make it really to expensive to purchase a machine like a c-250. I am working through that on a machine now. But bottom line on a common carrier youse pays your money and takes your chances Happy New Year Abe On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Bill Boruff boru...@flash.net wrote: Steve- FedEx does not always use kid gloves when handling packages. During this past year I shipped a banner front Edison Home in 3 boxes with each carefully packed to withstand any rough handling. One box was for the case, one for the mechanism and one for the horn. The mechanism was badly damaged when the tines of a fork lift went completely through the center of its box. The motor frame was broken into pieces and the bolts holding the motor frame to the bedplate were sheared off. It was the last time I shipped a machine via FedEx! Bill On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Steven Medved wrote: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
The last time I looked into the issue of insurance I found that the ONLY shipping method that actually covered the value of an antique was USPS Registered Mail. This is easily researched on line for FedEx, UPS, Greyhound And USPS. To make it short they will pay the replacement value of a currently available and produced replacement. That means a crapophone. Most times they do pay off on the damaged antique but they really do not have to do this under their tariffs. Bob wrote: I used to use FedEx ground all the time. A couple of years ago I sold a very expensive machine to someone on the west coast. I wanted to insure it for $3000 but was informed by the clerk that the maximum insurance on antiques shipped FedEx Ground was $100.00. On FedEx Air the maximum was $500.00. this item was very well packed and I was more concerned with loss rather than damage so I decided to ship it Priority Mail. It was more expensive but I could insure it properly. I think this was about 3 years ago in January. When I checked FedEx on line they had indeed changed the rules about insuring antiques. It seems they were taking too many losses because of inexperienced shippers selling on line and not packing their items properly. I'm not selling that many things right now, but at the time I stopped using FedEx for expensive antique items. Have any of you run into this problem? I really like shipping with FedEx and would like to know if the insurance policies have been changed. Thanks - Original Message - From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I typically use Priority Mail or Fed Ex Ground. UPS has commonly damaged items so I don't use them at all. I have seen things fal off their conveyor system at the local shipping point. I have only had one damaged item with USPS and none with FedEx Ground. The one I had with USPS was almost unimaginable. I double boxed a phonograph with tons of packing material, yet in shipping part of the motor frame was broken. It took awhile to get that claim paid. John Robles --- On Fri, 1/1/10, Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com wrote: From: Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 7:17 PM Hi All, I hate to tell all of you this but there is no magic bullet. I have been in the art business for 35 years and have used FedX , UPS and others and the fact is that you gotta build a box that will take just about any form of bad treatment. One of my nephews grew up working 1st for FedX -4 years and UPS-6 years and now works for a speciality shipper and freight company that deals in special shipment of special goods. The stories he told of both companies made my head hurt and no matter what shipper I use I build a box that will make it almost anywhere and my last item still did not get there. They drive a fork lift arm right through it and I used 3/4 plywood for sides. 3 months later the customer got a ck for $15000.00. But they did EVERYTHING they could to keep from paying the claim. Photos showing how the crate was put together shamed them and a bit of advice from my nephew to stay on them at least twice a week really worked. For our phono's small units well packed under normal conditions should get there. Larger units, either know someone who can get it back to you- or pay the very high price of craters and freighters. On more expensive machines it is OK but on standard ones the freight charge can make it really to expensive to purchase a machine like a c-250. I am working through that on a machine now. But bottom line on a common carrier youse pays your money and takes your chances Happy New Year Abe On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Bill Boruff boru...@flash.net wrote: Steve- FedEx does not always use kid gloves when handling packages. During this past year I shipped a banner front Edison Home in 3 boxes with each carefully packed to withstand any rough handling. One box was for the case, one for the mechanism and one for the horn. The mechanism was badly damaged when the tines of a fork lift went completely through the center of its box. The motor frame was broken into pieces and the bolts holding the motor frame to the bedplate were sheared off. It was the last time I shipped a machine via FedEx! Bill On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Steven Medved wrote: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Does it make a difference if the antique being shipped has just been sold and the seller has a receipt showing it's value? I can understand that they might balk at covering an antique for which there is no authentic value established. --Greg - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs The last time I looked into the issue of insurance I found that the ONLY shipping method that actually covered the value of an antique was USPS Registered Mail. This is easily researched on line for FedEx, UPS, Greyhound And USPS. To make it short they will pay the replacement value of a currently available and produced replacement. That means a crapophone. Most times they do pay off on the damaged antique but they really do not have to do this under their tariffs. Bob wrote: I used to use FedEx ground all the time. A couple of years ago I sold a very expensive machine to someone on the west coast. I wanted to insure it for $3000 but was informed by the clerk that the maximum insurance on antiques shipped FedEx Ground was $100.00. On FedEx Air the maximum was $500.00. this item was very well packed and I was more concerned with loss rather than damage so I decided to ship it Priority Mail. It was more expensive but I could insure it properly. I think this was about 3 years ago in January. When I checked FedEx on line they had indeed changed the rules about insuring antiques. It seems they were taking too many losses because of inexperienced shippers selling on line and not packing their items properly. I'm not selling that many things right now, but at the time I stopped using FedEx for expensive antique items. Have any of you run into this problem? I really like shipping with FedEx and would like to know if the insurance policies have been changed. Thanks - Original Message - From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I typically use Priority Mail or Fed Ex Ground. UPS has commonly damaged items so I don't use them at all. I have seen things fal off their conveyor system at the local shipping point. I have only had one damaged item with USPS and none with FedEx Ground. The one I had with USPS was almost unimaginable. I double boxed a phonograph with tons of packing material, yet in shipping part of the motor frame was broken. It took awhile to get that claim paid. John Robles --- On Fri, 1/1/10, Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com wrote: From: Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 7:17 PM Hi All, I hate to tell all of you this but there is no magic bullet. I have been in the art business for 35 years and have used FedX , UPS and others and the fact is that you gotta build a box that will take just about any form of bad treatment. One of my nephews grew up working 1st for FedX -4 years and UPS-6 years and now works for a speciality shipper and freight company that deals in special shipment of special goods. The stories he told of both companies made my head hurt and no matter what shipper I use I build a box that will make it almost anywhere and my last item still did not get there. They drive a fork lift arm right through it and I used 3/4 plywood for sides. 3 months later the customer got a ck for $15000.00. But they did EVERYTHING they could to keep from paying the claim. Photos showing how the crate was put together shamed them and a bit of advice from my nephew to stay on them at least twice a week really worked. For our phono's small units well packed under normal conditions should get there. Larger units, either know someone who can get it back to you- or pay the very high price of craters and freighters. On more expensive machines it is OK but on standard ones the freight charge can make it really to expensive to purchase a machine like a c-250. I am working through that on a machine now. But bottom line on a common carrier youse pays your money and takes your chances Happy New Year Abe On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Bill Boruff boru...@flash.net wrote: Steve- FedEx does not always use kid gloves when handling packages. During this past year I shipped a banner front Edison Home in 3 boxes with each carefully packed to withstand any rough handling. One box was for the case, one for the mechanism and one for the horn. The mechanism was badly damaged when the tines of a fork lift went completely through the center of its box. The motor frame was broken into pieces and the bolts holding the motor frame to the bedplate were sheared off. It was the last time I shipped a machine via FedEx! Bill On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Steven Medved
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I did better it only took me nine months to get paid for my horn and I had to keep calling. The Smiths provided a repair estimate for me. It is the attitude of UPS that bothered me the most. With the auto parts they damaged the container of antifreeze which got the other parts wet, they opened the box then taped it back together after putting the antifreeze in another container. Only when I call the auto parts place and complained did I find out what UPS did. The horn box they taped it together and they guy said I might want to check it for damage. The triumph the guy dropped it at the door, my wife wondered what the noise was. Steve i agree with you steve and it took me over a year to get a settlement from them for a victor m motor that was broken in transit best to all zono In a message dated 1/1/2010 5:04:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, steve_nor...@msn.com writes: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
My experience with UPS is that they wont pay out any insurance claim unless they impale it with a forklift. They smashed a Micropoise tone arm on me a few months back. I never got a dollar from that even though the box had been flattened. And yes, the forklift example is real. -Thatcher The Farmers wrote: I agree with this too. Although I'm not sure that it's easier to collect from FedEx since I've never had any damage from them to find out. FedEx also has much shorter lines to stand in for some strange reason. Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I must admit that I once shipped a phonograph through FedEx Ground, and they advised me about the antique rule. I wasn't sure what to do. But since it was a phonograph, the counterperson said he'd list it under electronics so I could get the full coverage. Of course if anything had happened, I am sure Fedex would have fought me on it. Since that time I haven't sent any phonographs through FedEx ground, just other items. John Robles --- On Sat, 1/2/10, Bob rvu...@comcast.net wrote: From: Bob rvu...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 4:31 AM I used to use FedEx ground all the time. A couple of years ago I sold a very expensive machine to someone on the west coast. I wanted to insure it for $3000 but was informed by the clerk that the maximum insurance on antiques shipped FedEx Ground was $100.00. On FedEx Air the maximum was $500.00. this item was very well packed and I was more concerned with loss rather than damage so I decided to ship it Priority Mail. It was more expensive but I could insure it properly. I think this was about 3 years ago in January. When I checked FedEx on line they had indeed changed the rules about insuring antiques. It seems they were taking too many losses because of inexperienced shippers selling on line and not packing their items properly. I'm not selling that many things right now, but at the time I stopped using FedEx for expensive antique items. Have any of you run into this problem? I really like shipping with FedEx and would like to know if the insurance policies have been changed. Thanks - Original Message - From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I typically use Priority Mail or Fed Ex Ground. UPS has commonly damaged items so I don't use them at all. I have seen things fal off their conveyor system at the local shipping point. I have only had one damaged item with USPS and none with FedEx Ground. The one I had with USPS was almost unimaginable. I double boxed a phonograph with tons of packing material, yet in shipping part of the motor frame was broken. It took awhile to get that claim paid. John Robles --- On Fri, 1/1/10, Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com wrote: From: Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 7:17 PM Hi All, I hate to tell all of you this but there is no magic bullet. I have been in the art business for 35 years and have used FedX , UPS and others and the fact is that you gotta build a box that will take just about any form of bad treatment. One of my nephews grew up working 1st for FedX -4 years and UPS-6 years and now works for a speciality shipper and freight company that deals in special shipment of special goods. The stories he told of both companies made my head hurt and no matter what shipper I use I build a box that will make it almost anywhere and my last item still did not get there. They drive a fork lift arm right through it and I used 3/4 plywood for sides. 3 months later the customer got a ck for $15000.00. But they did EVERYTHING they could to keep from paying the claim. Photos showing how the crate was put together shamed them and a bit of advice from my nephew to stay on them at least twice a week really worked. For our phono's small units well packed under normal conditions should get there. Larger units, either know someone who can get it back to you- or pay the very high price of craters and freighters. On more expensive machines it is OK but on standard ones the freight charge can make it really to expensive to purchase a machine like a c-250. I am working through that on a machine now. But bottom line on a common carrier youse pays your money and takes your chances Happy New Year Abe On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Bill Boruff boru...@flash.net wrote: Steve- FedEx does not always use kid gloves when handling packages. During this past year I shipped a banner front Edison Home in 3 boxes with each carefully packed to withstand any rough handling. One box was for the case, one for the mechanism and one for the horn. The mechanism was badly damaged when the tines of a fork lift went completely through the center of its box. The motor frame was broken into pieces and the bolts holding the motor frame to the bedplate were sheared off. It was the last time I shipped a machine via FedEx! Bill On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Steven Medved wrote: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
When shipping a machine of low to moderate value, why not just say it's a phonograph, omitting the word antique. I have done that several times and fortunately have not had a problem. And for a horn, say it's a phonograph speaker. To say they are electronics could result in a lot of problems in case of damage. Ray - Original Message - From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I must admit that I once shipped a phonograph through FedEx Ground, and they advised me about the antique rule. I wasn't sure what to do. But since it was a phonograph, the counterperson said he'd list it under electronics so I could get the full coverage. Of course if anything had happened, I am sure Fedex would have fought me on it. Since that time I haven't sent any phonographs through FedEx ground, just other items. John Robles --- On Sat, 1/2/10, Bob rvu...@comcast.net wrote: From: Bob rvu...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 4:31 AM I used to use FedEx ground all the time. A couple of years ago I sold a very expensive machine to someone on the west coast. I wanted to insure it for $3000 but was informed by the clerk that the maximum insurance on antiques shipped FedEx Ground was $100.00. On FedEx Air the maximum was $500.00. this item was very well packed and I was more concerned with loss rather than damage so I decided to ship it Priority Mail. It was more expensive but I could insure it properly. I think this was about 3 years ago in January. When I checked FedEx on line they had indeed changed the rules about insuring antiques. It seems they were taking too many losses because of inexperienced shippers selling on line and not packing their items properly. I'm not selling that many things right now, but at the time I stopped using FedEx for expensive antique items. Have any of you run into this problem? I really like shipping with FedEx and would like to know if the insurance policies have been changed. Thanks - Original Message - From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I typically use Priority Mail or Fed Ex Ground. UPS has commonly damaged items so I don't use them at all. I have seen things fal off their conveyor system at the local shipping point. I have only had one damaged item with USPS and none with FedEx Ground. The one I had with USPS was almost unimaginable. I double boxed a phonograph with tons of packing material, yet in shipping part of the motor frame was broken. It took awhile to get that claim paid. John Robles --- On Fri, 1/1/10, Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com wrote: From: Abe Feder abefed...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 7:17 PM Hi All, I hate to tell all of you this but there is no magic bullet. I have been in the art business for 35 years and have used FedX , UPS and others and the fact is that you gotta build a box that will take just about any form of bad treatment. One of my nephews grew up working 1st for FedX -4 years and UPS-6 years and now works for a speciality shipper and freight company that deals in special shipment of special goods. The stories he told of both companies made my head hurt and no matter what shipper I use I build a box that will make it almost anywhere and my last item still did not get there. They drive a fork lift arm right through it and I used 3/4 plywood for sides. 3 months later the customer got a ck for $15000.00. But they did EVERYTHING they could to keep from paying the claim. Photos showing how the crate was put together shamed them and a bit of advice from my nephew to stay on them at least twice a week really worked. For our phono's small units well packed under normal conditions should get there. Larger units, either know someone who can get it back to you- or pay the very high price of craters and freighters. On more expensive machines it is OK but on standard ones the freight charge can make it really to expensive to purchase a machine like a c-250. I am working through that on a machine now. But bottom line on a common carrier youse pays your money and takes your chances Happy New Year Abe On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Bill Boruff boru...@flash.net wrote: Steve- FedEx does not always use kid gloves when handling packages. During this past year I shipped a banner front Edison Home in 3 boxes with each carefully packed to withstand any rough handling. One box was for the case, one for the mechanism and one for the horn. The mechanism was badly damaged when the tines of a fork lift went completely through the center of its box
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Actually UPS has a deal where if THEY pack it and there is a claim, they pay immediately, no questions asked. So what I've been doing recently is pack the phono, horn, etc my own way (safely, thoroughly) then hand that package to them for them to pack in a larger box (with about 4 crush space in all dimensions). I have had great success with this so far, and the one claim i had was indeed paid lightning fast and with no questions asked at the stated value. Not sure what it's called, but your local UPS store will know. Might be something like The UPS Pack and Ship Promise. -- Peter On Jan 2, 2010, at 8:37 AM, Thatcher Graham wrote: My experience with UPS is that they wont pay out any insurance claim unless they impale it with a forklift. They smashed a Micropoise tone arm on me a few months back. I never got a dollar from that even though the box had been flattened. And yes, the forklift example is real. -Thatcher The Farmers wrote: I agree with this too. Although I'm not sure that it's easier to collect from FedEx since I've never had any damage from them to find out. FedEx also has much shorter lines to stand in for some strange reason. Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. Peter Fraser wrote: Actually UPS has a deal where if THEY pack it and there is a claim, they pay immediately, no questions asked. So what I've been doing recently is pack the phono, horn, etc my own way (safely, thoroughly) then hand that package to them for them to pack in a larger box (with about 4 crush space in all dimensions). I have had great success with this so far, and the one claim i had was indeed paid lightning fast and with no questions asked at the stated value. Not sure what it's called, but your local UPS store will know. Might be something like The UPS Pack and Ship Promise. -- Peter On Jan 2, 2010, at 8:37 AM, Thatcher Graham wrote: My experience with UPS is that they wont pay out any insurance claim unless they impale it with a forklift. They smashed a Micropoise tone arm on me a few months back. I never got a dollar from that even though the box had been flattened. And yes, the forklift example is real. -Thatcher The Farmers wrote: I agree with this too. Although I'm not sure that it's easier to collect from FedEx since I've never had any damage from them to find out. FedEx also has much shorter lines to stand in for some strange reason. Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I agree Peter. There are local UPS pack and ship stores that I have utilized this same method. Pack the item and hand it over to them where they box it for shipment. When insured for full value, they cough up a check with no questions asked. I believe my only claim through one local pack and ship store was resolved in about 7 - 10 days for about $4500.00. Ron -Original Message- From: Peter Fraser pjfra...@mac.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 1:54 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs Actually UPS has a deal where if THEY pack it and there is a claim, they pay immediately, no questions asked. So what I've been doing recently is pack the phono, horn, etc my own way (safely, thoroughly) then hand that package to them for them to pack in a larger box (with about 4 crush space in all dimensions). I have had great success with this so far, and the one claim i had was indeed paid lightning fast and with no questions asked at the stated value. Not sure what it's called, but your local UPS store will know. Might be something like The UPS Pack and Ship Promise. -- Peter On Jan 2, 2010, at 8:37 AM, Thatcher Graham wrote: My experience with UPS is that they wont pay out any insurance claim unless they impale it with a forklift. They smashed a Micropoise tone arm on me a few months back. I never got a dollar from that even though the box had been flattened. And yes, the forklift example is real. -Thatcher The Farmers wrote: I agree with this too. Although I'm not sure that it's easier to collect from FedEx since I've never had any damage from them to find out. FedEx also has much shorter lines to stand in for some strange reason. Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I have seen the definition of age greater than 100 but have never seen anything close to 25 as being defined as antique. Robert Wright wrote: I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Here is the wikipedia entry for Antique. If you read the definition section I think there is some merit in the 25 year old item. But, I had always heard 100 years too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antique Dan - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I have seen the definition of age greater than 100 but have never seen anything close to 25 as being defined as antique. Robert Wright wrote: I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
An item which is at least 50 to 100 years old and is collected or desirable due to rarity, condition, utility, or some other unique feature. Motor vehicles, power tools and other items subject to vigorous use in contrast, may be considered antiques in the U.S. if older than 25 years, and some electronic gadgets of more recent vintage may be considered antiques. From: esrobe...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 22:42:33 + Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
The horn I received that was damaged was from a UPS pack and ship store and it took 9 months for the seller to get paid, then he sent me a check for $300. They actually packed it good but it looked like a giant gator chomped down on it. I was the one who did all the work to get the seller paid so he could repay me. I got the repair estimate that exceeded coverage. I am happy to hear that some local UPS pack and ship stores provide excellent service. Steve I agree Peter. There are local UPS pack and ship stores that I have utilized this same method. Pack the item and hand it over to them where they box it for shipment. When insured for full value, they cough up a check with no questions asked. I believe my only claim through one local pack and ship store was resolved in about 7 - 10 days for about $4500.00. Ron -Original Message- From: Peter Fraser pjfra...@mac.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 1:54 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs Actually UPS has a deal where if THEY pack it and there is a claim, they pay immediately, no questions asked. So what I've been doing recently is pack the phono, horn, etc my own way (safely, thoroughly) then hand that package to them for them to pack in a larger box (with about 4 crush space in all dimensions). I have had great success with this so far, and the one claim i had was indeed paid lightning fast and with no questions asked at the stated value. Not sure what it's called, but your local UPS store will know. Might be something like The UPS Pack and Ship Promise. -- Peter On Jan 2, 2010, at 8:37 AM, Thatcher Graham wrote: My experience with UPS is that they wont pay out any insurance claim unless they impale it with a forklift. They smashed a Micropoise tone arm on me a few months back. I never got a dollar from that even though the box had been flattened. And yes, the forklift example is real. -Thatcher The Farmers wrote: I agree with this too. Although I'm not sure that it's easier to collect from FedEx since I've never had any damage from them to find out. FedEx also has much shorter lines to stand in for some strange reason. Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I once tried to ship a phonograph through UPS. When I tried to insure it for $1,000 they insisted that I haave an indipendent appraisal before they would insure it. This was before eBay so maybe things have changed. If you bring a copy of the eBay sale record is this sufficient to prove the value? - Original Message - From: ronbr...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I agree Peter. There are local UPS pack and ship stores that I have utilized this same method. Pack the item and hand it over to them where they box it for shipment. When insured for full value, they cough up a check with no questions asked. I believe my only claim through one local pack and ship store was resolved in about 7 - 10 days for about $4500.00. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
The idea that an antique has to be 100 years old comes from somewhere in the Federal tax codes. When I first got into the world of antiques 43 years ago, dealers were very careful not to call anything that wasn't demonstrably 100 years-old or darn close to it an antique. Whether the tax laws have changed or the field has become so watered-down by antiques malls and eBay that it no longer matters, I don't know, but the 100-year measure was very strict back in the 'old days'. One of the reasons phonos and most music boxes, etc. were so cheap back then is because they didn't meet the grade to be considered an antique so not many people wanted them. From: steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 19:18:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs An item which is at least 50 to 100 years old and is collected or desirable due to rarity, condition, utility, or some other unique feature. Motor vehicles, power tools and other items subject to vigorous use in contrast, may be considered antiques in the U.S. if older than 25 years, and some electronic gadgets of more recent vintage may be considered antiques. From: esrobe...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 22:42:33 + Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Cars are considered officially antique at age 25. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 6:30 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I have seen the definition of age greater than 100 but have never seen anything close to 25 as being defined as antique. Robert Wright wrote: I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Cars are the only other collectibles community I've been exposed to; that's where I got the 25 years figure. Though I was aware of the cultural dilution of the term antique, I wasn't aware it originally had a sliding scale dependent on presumed use. That's pretty interesting. I still say a 1920 phonograph is clearly an antique, though. Seems like 50 years is a pretty good yardstick for just about any collectible, though that's merely opinion. This might be worth investigating from a legal standpoint if it would substantially increase the value of a given collection. Or is the term vintage intended to fill the gap? From: lhera...@bu.edu To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 20:54:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs Cars are considered officially antique at age 25. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 6:30 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I have seen the definition of age greater than 100 but have never seen anything close to 25 as being defined as antique. Robert Wright wrote: I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Actually, antique used to mean hand made or artisan made, as opposed to factory or workshop made. When the modern antiques business started in the 19th century and people began importing vast quantities of items from abroad they used the word antique to allow items that were old and rare but not works of art in the traditional sense (paintings, sculptures, etc.) be classified. Back them something that was made by machine could not be 100 years old, as modern production was a new thing, therefore, an antique was 100 years old or older. As time went on, people forgot why the 100 year rule was in place and just referred to anything 100 years old as an antique. - Original Message - From: John Maeder appywan...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs The idea that an antique has to be 100 years old comes from somewhere in the Federal tax codes. When I first got into the world of antiques 43 years ago, dealers were very careful not to call anything that wasn't demonstrably 100 years-old or darn close to it an antique. Whether the tax laws have changed or the field has become so watered-down by antiques malls and eBay that it no longer matters, I don't know, but the 100-year measure was very strict back in the 'old days'. One of the reasons phonos and most music boxes, etc. were so cheap back then is because they didn't meet the grade to be considered an antique so not many people wanted them. From: steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 19:18:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs An item which is at least 50 to 100 years old and is collected or desirable due to rarity, condition, utility, or some other unique feature. Motor vehicles, power tools and other items subject to vigorous use in contrast, may be considered antiques in the U.S. if older than 25 years, and some electronic gadgets of more recent vintage may be considered antiques. From: esrobe...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 22:42:33 + Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Remember, wikipedia is user written with no actual peer review. 25 years is some thieving antique dealer's idea of a joke. Daniel Melvin wrote: Here is the wikipedia entry for Antique. If you read the definition section I think there is some merit in the 25 year old item. But, I had always heard 100 years too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antique Dan - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I have seen the definition of age greater than 100 but have never seen anything close to 25 as being defined as antique. Robert Wright wrote: I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Some DMVs will issue antique plates at 25 years but that hardly qualifies. the car restoration/collection community does not see the DMV as an authority and have different definitions. Ron L'Herault wrote: Cars are considered officially antique at age 25. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 6:30 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I have seen the definition of age greater than 100 but have never seen anything close to 25 as being defined as antique. Robert Wright wrote: I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
The antique car crowd has very different ideas on what constitutes and antique car. Where did you find that definition? Steven Medved wrote: An item which is at least 50 to 100 years old and is collected or desirable due to rarity, condition, utility, or some other unique feature. Motor vehicles, power tools and other items subject to vigorous use in contrast, may be considered antiques in the U.S. if older than 25 years, and some electronic gadgets of more recent vintage may be considered antiques. From: esrobe...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 22:42:33 + Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Wikipedia. In Ohio you could get an antique plate for a car that was 25 years old or older, I suppose they figured it it hadn't rusted away it was special. For me an antique car is one in the early 1930's or earlier. It has been that way for me since the 1970's. A 1955 Chevy to me is a classic, not an antique. I guess I am stuck in time. The antique car crowd has very different ideas on what constitutes and antique car. Where did you find that definition? Steven Medved wrote: An item which is at least 50 to 100 years old and is collected or desirable due to rarity, condition, utility, or some other unique feature. Motor vehicles, power tools and other items subject to vigorous use in contrast, may be considered antiques in the U.S. if older than 25 years, and some electronic gadgets of more recent vintage may be considered antiques. From: esrobe...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 22:42:33 + Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Wow. What a waste of energy, getting so defensive over a definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 22:20:31 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs The antique car crowd has very different ideas on what constitutes and antique car. Where did you find that definition? Steven Medved wrote: An item which is at least 50 to 100 years old and is collected or desirable due to rarity, condition, utility, or some other unique feature. Motor vehicles, power tools and other items subject to vigorous use in contrast, may be considered antiques in the U.S. if older than 25 years, and some electronic gadgets of more recent vintage may be considered antiques. From: esrobe...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 22:42:33 + Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I don't know about tariffs, but I've always understood the definition of antique to mean 25 years or older, not 100. A 1920 phonograph is an antique by any definition. Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:26:39 -0600 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs That will work for the items that you are willing to spend the time and $$ shipping. I still would want to very carefully read the tariff to see just exactly what is and is not covered by the damage coverage. Antique has a definition and it usually means 100 years old or older. The tariff also usually states that it supersedes any promises, claims, or off-the-cuff comments made by any employ or agent that does not match the tariff. If they back the truck over it or stab it with a fork truck you will almost always get paid no matter what it is or how old it is. Other than acts of obvious negligence UPS and the Post Office are a major pain to deal with unless it was registered mail. _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
UPS should be last resort. I was told FED EX still handles most packages by hand. I took that to mean that they don't drop from conveyor belt to conveyor belt. The post office does a great job and is much faster than both of the private carriers. The Snap On tool guy gets his deliveries at my shop. The substitute UPS driver sits his packages down and I walk over and kicked the boxes. I said to the driver you obviously haven't graduated from UPS University! Fragile to UPS is Italian for kick. I would add you waste ink to write fragile. UPS will tell you it has to survive a drop from something like six feet or tough toe-nails. Btw 6 feet!!! Why not 20. I do not believe UPS recognizes the terms do not stack or this side up. Mike Oldcranky On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I agree with this too. Although I'm not sure that it's easier to collect from FedEx since I've never had any damage from them to find out. FedEx also has much shorter lines to stand in for some strange reason. Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Steve- FedEx does not always use kid gloves when handling packages. During this past year I shipped a banner front Edison Home in 3 boxes with each carefully packed to withstand any rough handling. One box was for the case, one for the mechanism and one for the horn. The mechanism was badly damaged when the tines of a fork lift went completely through the center of its box. The motor frame was broken into pieces and the bolts holding the motor frame to the bedplate were sheared off. It was the last time I shipped a machine via FedEx! Bill On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Steven Medved wrote: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Hi All, I hate to tell all of you this but there is no magic bullet. I have been in the art business for 35 years and have used FedX , UPS and others and the fact is that you gotta build a box that will take just about any form of bad treatment. One of my nephews grew up working 1st for FedX -4 years and UPS-6 years and now works for a speciality shipper and freight company that deals in special shipment of special goods. The stories he told of both companies made my head hurt and no matter what shipper I use I build a box that will make it almost anywhere and my last item still did not get there. They drive a fork lift arm right through it and I used 3/4 plywood for sides. 3 months later the customer got a ck for $15000.00. But they did EVERYTHING they could to keep from paying the claim. Photos showing how the crate was put together shamed them and a bit of advice from my nephew to stay on them at least twice a week really worked. For our phono's small units well packed under normal conditions should get there. Larger units, either know someone who can get it back to you- or pay the very high price of craters and freighters. On more expensive machines it is OK but on standard ones the freight charge can make it really to expensive to purchase a machine like a c-250. I am working through that on a machine now. But bottom line on a common carrier youse pays your money and takes your chances Happy New Year Abe On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Bill Boruff boru...@flash.net wrote: Steve- FedEx does not always use kid gloves when handling packages. During this past year I shipped a banner front Edison Home in 3 boxes with each carefully packed to withstand any rough handling. One box was for the case, one for the mechanism and one for the horn. The mechanism was badly damaged when the tines of a fork lift went completely through the center of its box. The motor frame was broken into pieces and the bolts holding the motor frame to the bedplate were sheared off. It was the last time I shipped a machine via FedEx! Bill On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Steven Medved wrote: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
Hi, I used to ship a lot of antiques by FedEx ground. I found the service was almost as fast as Priority Mail and considerably cheaper. In Jan 2006 I took a very expensive phonograph to FedEx to ship to Arizona by ground. To my surprise the clerk told me that the insurance policy on antiques had been changed. As of Jan 1st the max insurance available on antiques shipped FedEx ground was $100. Needles to say I couldn't accept this on a $3500 item so I shipped it Priority Mail. The other day a friend of mine received an expensive phonograph that was shipped from the west coast by FedEx ground and was insured for several thousand dollars. Furthermore the seller didn't even have to give proof of value to obtain the insurance. I know this because he tried to ship it at UPS first but they wouldn't insure it without a recent appraisal by a qualified antique dealer. Does anyone know if FedEx has changed their insurance policy? If so what is it now. Thanks. RMV
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
You are running into the problem of the local company employee staffed customer service counter, and the local contract shipping center. This will happen with almost anything except the post office. Make a phone call to the home service center and ask or, better yet, go on the internet and read the carriers tariff and regulations. You will find the answer there. Armed with the page and paragraph number you can now go to the customer service counter. You will have a tough time collecting from the post office for an antique also. Again, if it has value, then ship it REGISTERED mail. Right now all you have heer is FUD from your friend of a friend who said. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear%2C_uncertainty_and_doubt On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 09:56:25 -0500, Robert Vuillemenot wrote: Hi, I used to ship a lot of antiques by FedEx ground. I found the service was almost as fast as Priority Mail and considerably cheaper. In Jan 2006 I took a very expensive phonograph to FedEx to ship to Arizona by ground. To my surprise the clerk told me that the insurance policy on antiques had been changed. As of Jan 1st the max insurance available on antiques shipped FedEx ground was $100. Needles to say I couldn't accept this on a $3500 item so I shipped it Priority Mail. The other day a friend of mine received an expensive phonograph that was shipped from the west coast by FedEx ground and was insured for several thousand dollars. Furthermore the seller didn't even have to give proof of value to obtain the insurance. I know this because he tried to ship it at UPS first but they wouldn't insure it without a recent appraisal by a qualified antique dealer. Does anyone know if FedEx has changed their insurance policy? If so what is it now. Thanks. RMV ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
I looked on the FedEx web sight and couldn't find an answer so I sent them an email and asked for clarification about insurance for antiques. I will let you know if I get a reply. RMV -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Loran T. Hughes Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:29 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs Like everything, I imagine that the devil is in the details. Anyone care to volunteer to go down to UPS, FedEx, and USPS to get copies of the insurance agreements? I'll bet you find limits to liability on antiques... but I'm just guessing. Loran ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
They have them posted on the internet site. That way you do not have to deal with the uninformed clerk. And, you are correct, there are limits. On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:28:36 -0800, Loran T. Hughes wrote: Like everything, I imagine that the devil is in the details. Anyone care to volunteer to go down to UPS, FedEx, and USPS to get copies of the insurance agreements? I'll bet you find limits to liability on antiques... but I'm just guessing. Loran ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
I'm with Mario: If I sell a phonograph I take it to a packaging store and they take care of everything. Sure it costs more but I think most buyers would prefer that as well. I have shipped many wood horn machines and have never lost one yet. Union is great but they do not offer packaging services at the show, so if you fly in, you better know somebody who will bring it back for you. - Original Message - From: Mario Frazzetto mari...@optusnet.com.au To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs Some might disagree but I now get most of what I sell now professionally packaged (pack and send) Yes it might add $20-30 to postage but I'm of the belief that it is probably just as imporant as insurance and if you have to make a claim on your insurance just whip out the packing receipt and then there is really little question that it is well packed. I only do this for delicate and/or more expensive items. Cheers, Mario - Original Message - From: Mike Stitt smsti...@mind.net To: Phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:35 AM Subject: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs One of the reasons ( of many ) I don't buy phonographs on eBay is it breaks my heart to hear of yet another phonograph lost to shipping. I can't afford to take that hit.I'm old school. Go to shows, go to Union. Hey it is fun to meet others. At shows like Union if you do it right you might just haggle a great deal instead of paying more than everybody else is willing to bid. Just a thought. BTW I understand that not everyone can go to Union ( like me, both cases ) or live in the outback were there are few antiques. I'm just advocating to keep other mediums alive. Mike ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
More great points. I definitely agree with professional packers for expensive, delicate items if it keeps UPS, et. al, from blaming poor packing -- especially if the packers offer their own insurance and/or a guarantee, which they'd almost have to. $50 extra ain't much compared to saving a $5000 machine! - Original Message - From: Albert cen...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs I'm with Mario: If I sell a phonograph I take it to a packaging store and they take care of everything. Sure it costs more but I think most buyers would prefer that as well. I have shipped many wood horn machines and have never lost one yet. Union is great but they do not offer packaging services at the show, so if you fly in, you better know somebody who will bring it back for you. - Original Message - From: Mario Frazzetto mari...@optusnet.com.au To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs Some might disagree but I now get most of what I sell now professionally packaged (pack and send) Yes it might add $20-30 to postage but I'm of the belief that it is probably just as imporant as insurance and if you have to make a claim on your insurance just whip out the packing receipt and then there is really little question that it is well packed. I only do this for delicate and/or more expensive items. Cheers, Mario
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
Ouch. But Rich, did you see or get a receipt for the 'professional' packing? Do you know what company you could've blamed for it (and who we should avoid)? Are you positive the seller didn't just pocket the money? I've only used pro-packers a couple of times, always as a sender, never a receiver... I sent two very costly electric guitars north to get them set up and outfitted with some special parts, and I watched the person at Mailboxes, Etc wrap both guitar cases in plastic wrap to keep them tight together, then she wrapped that with 2 layers of large bubble wrap, put that assembly into a box, put that box into a larger box stuffed tightly with peanuts, sealed it up, and off it went. Everything came out great. My other experiences went pretty much like that one did, once with very heavy yet very delicate hifi components costing nearly $10k. Two things -- one, I'd make sure the seller got me a receipt, a number, or something they could back up the claim of using a professional packer with. I'd tell them before I ever sent payment that they would need to provide proof and tell me who they used. I'd call the place they used and confirm it with them; it's in their sales records, and most places pack it and mail it out themselves, so they'd know. And two, a point I meant to include in the trips/tricks compendium (heh heh) -- every time I get a box that's clearly marked FRAGILE! in big letters on every side of the box, it's fine. Every time I get a box without FRAGILE! on it, the box has no shape left to it by the time I get it. The last thing I always request in my here's how to pack that thing you're about to send to me email is for the seller to get a Sharpie and write FRAGILE! in BIG letters at least once on every side of the box. If I want to be an ass to the USPS, etc., I have them write HIGHLY INSURED!! all over it, too. That's one they take pretty seriously, cuz that's gonna cost their bosses money if something happens to it (or so they'll be inclined to think). I also find that things like GLASS!!, DO NOT DROP!, and the actual contents, like ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH RECORDS! help out, too. I got the hint to write what's in the box on the sides from the father of a good friend who's now a retired postal worker. He said the package stops being just another anonymous box if what's inside is written on the outside. It can impart a sense of pride to a mail carrier if s/he knows why that package is so valuable. Mind you, this man didn't work for UPS or FedEx, both of which may have a very different vibe for employees. At the end of the day, they're (we're) all human, and where there's human, there's error. Best, Robert - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs OK, Here is my opinion on the packaging store it is real simple, a basic waste of mony. I have yet to see a decent job come out of one of those places. How do you expect a low buck clerk to have any idea on how to pack a phono? It does provide a small layer of insurance that the final carrier will pay up if its trashed though. OK kiddies, story time. This is about the shipping store. I purchased a video tape machine recently. It was a professional grade S-VHS machine, a JVC BR- S822DXU. The original cost of this machine in the 2000 time frame was $15,000.00 or so. I paid a lot less. Now I was charged $30.00 to professionally package the machine. It fits into a 19 rack and weighs about 54 pounds and is almost 24 deep and 7 high. This is what showed up on the door step. One large previously used box containing the VCR wrapped in 2 complete turns of bubble wrap and the remainder of the box loosely filled with plastic peanuts. By some miracle, after picking peanuts out of the machine it was un damaged other than one of the rack mounting handles was bent about 45 degrees when compared to the other side. The box had been dropped repeatedly as there were no corners that were not crushed and all sides were now soft. For that I paid $30.00.
[Phono-L] Shipping phonographs-Herzog, NCR
My packaging store story is another reason not to rest easy when using professional pack-ship places. I was having a mahogany Herzog cylinder phonograph cabinet shipped, which was taken to a store to be packed. This is one of the models with the interleaving shelves and rounded front (710). When it arrived, I knew right away there would be trouble. The moment I saw it come off the truck, I could see that it had been dropped, and the top of the carton was accordioned badly, indicating that it had taken a long drop on its head. This was supposed to have been triple boxed, with extra cardboard at the bottom to offer some protection to the bun feet. The only triple in the packing that the shipping carton had been pieced together from three sections of recycled boxes, all of them soft as could be, and without a rigid or double wall panel in the bunch. The packing inside was relatively loose, and there was no inner box, let alone two. To add insult to injury, there was a gaping hole in the side of the shabby carton, with peanuts and clear tape oozing from it and, you guessed it, the side of the cabinet got gouged. If it had been packed as represented, it would have at least had a chance to escape that damage. Of course, the primary instruction to put additional protection at the bottom was completely ignored. They had thrown three left over box flaps on top before sealing it, and that was it. I was able to get a refund from the seller on the packing shipping, for which I had been charged $380.00. But I have to be content to live with the shipping damage or refinish it. The seller was also helpful in coaching me on the materials used in the refinish job that had been done on it prior to shipping, and when life settles down enough to free up the time, I plan on redoing the whole cabinet. What should have been a joyful moment was made a miserable disappointment. My only other experiences with using a professional pack-ship company were an antique lamp with shade shipped separately (different shipper, same shoddy materials; badly damaged shade), and a relatively small but heavy brass National cash register (model 317), which had been packed with crumpled NEWSPAPER. The only thoughtfulness in that packing job was that they had (fortunately) removed the two glass panels that form the top compartment and taped them to the inner curve where the front panel meets the upper part (with tape that left gooey adhesive embedded in the fine brasswork. It arrived with a bent over upper side panel (the part that goes up alongside the glass). Fortunately, I was able to straighten the metal without cracking it, and consider myself to have been extremely lucky to do so. The premium above and beyond the actual cost of shipping for this service was $60.00. I'm sure that there must be reputable pack-ship companies out there but unless you KNOW that a particular company is being used and have seen that they use quality materials consistently, I believe that you're taking your chances much the same as dealing with any unknown party. Andy Baron On Feb 15, 2007, at 1:52 PM, Rich wrote: OK, Here is my opinion on the packaging store it is real simple, a basic waste of mony. I have yet to see a decent job come out of one of those places. How do you expect a low buck clerk to have any idea on how to pack a phono? It does provide a small layer of insurance that the final carrier will pay up if its trashed though. OK kiddies, story time. This is about the shipping store. I purchased a video tape machine recently. It was a professional grade S-VHS machine, a JVC BR- S822DXU. The original cost of this machine in the 2000 time frame was $15,000.00 or so. I paid a lot less. Now I was charged $30.00 to professionally package the machine. It fits into a 19 rack and weighs about 54 pounds and is almost 24 deep and 7 high. This is what showed up on the door step. One large previously used box containing the VCR wrapped in 2 complete turns of bubble wrap and the remainder of the box loosely filled with plastic peanuts. By some miracle, after picking peanuts out of the machine it was un damaged other than one of the rack mounting handles was bent about 45 degrees when compared to the other side. The box had been dropped repeatedly as there were no corners that were not crushed and all sides were now soft. For that I paid $30.00 On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:17:40 -0800, Albert wrote: I'm with Mario: If I sell a phonograph I take it to a packaging store and they take care of everything. Sure it costs more but I think most buyers would prefer that as well. I have shipped many wood horn machines and have never lost one yet. Union is great but they do not offer packaging services at the show, so if you fly in, you better know somebody who will bring it back
[Phono-L] shipping phonographs
, this man didn't work for UPS or FedEx, both of which may have a very different vibe for employees. At the end of the day, they're (we're) all human, and where there's human, there's error. Best, Robert - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] shipping phonographs OK, Here is my opinion on the packaging store it is real simple, a basic waste of mony. I have yet to see a decent job come out of one of those places. How do you expect a low buck clerk to have any idea on how to pack a phono? It does provide a small layer of insurance that the final carrier will pay up if its trashed though. OK kiddies, story time. This is about the shipping store. I purchased a video tape machine recently. It was a professional grade S-VHS machine, a JVC BR- S822DXU. The original cost of this machine in the 2000 time frame was $15,000.00 or so. I paid a lot less. Now I was charged $30.00 to professionally package the machine. It fits into a 19 rack and weighs about 54 pounds and is almost 24 deep and 7 high. This is what showed up on the door step. One large previously used box containing the VCR wrapped in 2 complete turns of bubble wrap and the remainder of the box loosely filled with plastic peanuts. By some miracle, after picking peanuts out of the machine it was un damaged other than one of the rack mounting handles was bent about 45 degrees when compared to the other side. The box had been dropped repeatedly as there were no corners that were not crushed and all sides were now soft. For that I paid $30.00. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Shipping phonographs-Herzog, NCR
You should look at it this way, You have helped take some idiot off of the street and provide them with a job. That is what your money went for as it definitely did not go for a proper packing job, even when instructions were provided. If you stand there and watch them , it goes better. Rich On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:27:30 -0700, Andrew Baron wrote: My packaging store story is another reason not to rest easy when using professional pack-ship places. I was having a mahogany Herzog cylinder phonograph cabinet shipped, which was taken to a store to be packed. This is one of the models with the interleaving shelves and rounded front (710). When it arrived, I knew right away there would be trouble. The moment I saw it come off the truck, I could see that it had been dropped, and the top of the carton was accordioned badly, indicating that it had taken a long drop on its head. This was supposed to have been triple boxed, with extra cardboard at the bottom to offer some protection to the bun feet. The only triple in the packing that the shipping carton had been pieced together from three sections of recycled boxes, all of them soft as could be, and without a rigid or double wall panel in the bunch. The packing inside was relatively loose, and there was no inner box, let alone two. To add insult to injury, there was a gaping hole in the side of the shabby carton, with peanuts and clear tape oozing from it and, you guessed it, the side of the cabinet got gouged. If it had been packed as represented, it would have at least had a chance to escape that damage. Of course, the primary instruction to put additional protection at the bottom was completely ignored. They had thrown three left over box flaps on top before sealing it, and that was it. I was able to get a refund from the seller on the packing shipping, for which I had been charged $380.00. But I have to be content to live with the shipping damage or refinish it. The seller was also helpful in coaching me on the materials used in the refinish job that had been done on it prior to shipping, and when life settles down enough to free up the time, I plan on redoing the whole cabinet. What should have been a joyful moment was made a miserable disappointment. My only other experiences with using a professional pack-ship company were an antique lamp with shade shipped separately (different shipper, same shoddy materials; badly damaged shade), and a relatively small but heavy brass National cash register (model 317), which had been packed with crumpled NEWSPAPER. The only thoughtfulness in that packing job was that they had (fortunately) removed the two glass panels that form the top compartment and taped them to the inner curve where the front panel meets the upper part (with tape that left gooey adhesive embedded in the fine brasswork. It arrived with a bent over upper side panel (the part that goes up alongside the glass). Fortunately, I was able to straighten the metal without cracking it, and consider myself to have been extremely lucky to do so. The premium above and beyond the actual cost of shipping for this service was $60.00. I'm sure that there must be reputable pack-ship companies out there but unless you KNOW that a particular company is being used and have seen that they use quality materials consistently, I believe that you're taking your chances much the same as dealing with any unknown party. Andy Baron On Feb 15, 2007, at 1:52 PM, Rich wrote: OK, Here is my opinion on the packaging store it is real simple, a basic waste of mony. I have yet to see a decent job come out of one of those places. How do you expect a low buck clerk to have any idea on how to pack a phono? It does provide a small layer of insurance that the final carrier will pay up if its trashed though. OK kiddies, story time. This is about the shipping store. I purchased a video tape machine recently. It was a professional grade S-VHS machine, a JVC BR- S822DXU. The original cost of this machine in the 2000 time frame was $15,000.00 or so. I paid a lot less. Now I was charged $30.00 to professionally package the machine. It fits into a 19 rack and weighs about 54 pounds and is almost 24 deep and 7 high. This is what showed up on the door step. One large previously used box containing the VCR wrapped in 2 complete turns of bubble wrap and the remainder of the box loosely filled with plastic peanuts. By some miracle, after picking peanuts out of the machine it was un damaged other than one of the rack mounting handles was bent about 45 degrees when compared to the other side. The box had been dropped repeatedly as there were no corners that were not crushed and all sides were now soft. For that I paid $30.00 On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:17:40 -0800, Albert wrote: I'm with Mario: If I sell a phonograph I
