[Phono-L] the early a-250
Was there ever any feedback on the compilation of the A-250 data? I have not seen anything in a while from the group and was wondering if I missed it somehow. On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:02:34 -0700, Peter Fraser wrote: Hi - Well, I heard back from Ron Dethlefson, and enclose his response below. And here are the pictures of Andy's machine, plus some additional oxidozed bronze hardware pix from Bruce Mercer: http://homepage.mac.com/pjfraser/phono/PhotoAlbum233.html the password is pook2e (no quotes). For large-scale versions of the pix, use the slideshow button, or single-click the individual shot in which you're interested. Cheers, Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net From: ronald dethlefson r2d...@pacbell.net Date: June 23, 2007 9:53:26 AM PDT To: Peter Fraser pjfra...@mac.com Subject: Re: pictures of the early a-250 Nephew, Yes, the stop mechanism shown is the first one. It's the same as on my A-250 #161. I've seen these mechanisms on #158 and #171. They probably were on the first 200 A250s manufactured in late 1912, according to Frow. A250s through #1200 were manufactured by March 1913, again according to Frow. The sound vents in the sides of the cabinets ended about #1200 too. I suspect that the stop mechanism was changed due to some patent issue. So much of the factory documentation was destroyed in the Dec. 1914 fire that the only way to document changes in Model A pnonographs is to look at the machines themselves. At least we now know that the first stop mechanism, was in use into the 1400 range of serial numbers. One other Model A tidbit. I've never seen a Model A 250 numbered lower than #109. This leads me to suspect that serial numbers began with 100. The highest Model A 250 serial number I've ever seen was in the mid-12,000 range of numbers. Regards, Uncle On Jun 22, 2007, at 11:58 PM, Peter Fraser wrote: Early_A_250_levers.jpg Early_A_250_levers Later_A-250_controls.jpg Later_A-250_controls A_250_bedplate_detail.jpg A_250_bedplate_detail -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] the early a-250
I sent this to Andrew but neglected to send it to the list The machine serial number plate is SM 3435 and the mecanism bedplate is 3435 A1 and the stop is identical to the early adjustable one you have pictured. The case is oak. No side vents in the cabinet. I can not get at the back of the machine without moving several others so I can not tell you what the label on the back door reads. On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:02:34 -0700, Peter Fraser wrote: Hi - Well, I heard back from Ron Dethlefson, and enclose his response below. And here are the pictures of Andy's machine, plus some additional oxidozed bronze hardware pix from Bruce Mercer: http://homepage.mac.com/pjfraser/phono/PhotoAlbum233.html the password is pook2e (no quotes). For large-scale versions of the pix, use the slideshow button, or single-click the individual shot in which you're interested. Cheers, Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net From: ronald dethlefson r2d...@pacbell.net Date: June 23, 2007 9:53:26 AM PDT To: Peter Fraser pjfra...@mac.com Subject: Re: pictures of the early a-250 Nephew, Yes, the stop mechanism shown is the first one. It's the same as on my A-250 #161. I've seen these mechanisms on #158 and #171. They probably were on the first 200 A250s manufactured in late 1912, according to Frow. A250s through #1200 were manufactured by March 1913, again according to Frow. The sound vents in the sides of the cabinets ended about #1200 too. I suspect that the stop mechanism was changed due to some patent issue. So much of the factory documentation was destroyed in the Dec. 1914 fire that the only way to document changes in Model A pnonographs is to look at the machines themselves. At least we now know that the first stop mechanism, was in use into the 1400 range of serial numbers. One other Model A tidbit. I've never seen a Model A 250 numbered lower than #109. This leads me to suspect that serial numbers began with 100. The highest Model A 250 serial number I've ever seen was in the mid-12,000 range of numbers. Regards, Uncle On Jun 22, 2007, at 11:58 PM, Peter Fraser wrote: Early_A_250_levers.jpg Early_A_250_levers Later_A-250_controls.jpg Later_A-250_controls A_250_bedplate_detail.jpg A_250_bedplate_detail -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] the early a-250
The highest Model A 250 serial number I've ever seen was in the mid-12,000 range of numbers. Hmm, my own A250 is numbered 12080, so I guess it is later in production than I thought. Either that or it is the one that Ron is talking about since he's been to my house a few times. There is another difference int he A-250 that I haven't found in the others. The lock mechanism takes a key that has only one notch cut into the 'tooth', not two as in all other DDs I have had or seen. I have a Dolphin key that has the one notch cut in it as the other will not fit. John Robles Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net wrote: Hi - Well, I heard back from Ron Dethlefson, and enclose his response below. And here are the pictures of Andy's machine, plus some additional oxidozed bronze hardware pix from Bruce Mercer: http://homepage.mac.com/pjfraser/phono/PhotoAlbum233.html the password is pook2e (no quotes). For large-scale versions of the pix, use the slideshow button, or single-click the individual shot in which you're interested. Cheers, Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net Begin forwarded message: From: ronald dethlefson Date: June 23, 2007 9:53:26 AM PDT To: Peter Fraser Subject: Re: pictures of the early a-250 Nephew, Yes, the stop mechanism shown is the first one. It's the same as on my A-250 #161. I've seen these mechanisms on #158 and #171. They probably were on the first 200 A250s manufactured in late 1912, according to Frow. A250s through #1200 were manufactured by March 1913, again according to Frow. The sound vents in the sides of the cabinets ended about #1200 too. I suspect that the stop mechanism was changed due to some patent issue. So much of the factory documentation was destroyed in the Dec. 1914 fire that the only way to document changes in Model A pnonographs is to look at the machines themselves. At least we now know that the first stop mechanism, was in use into the 1400 range of serial numbers. One other Model A tidbit. I've never seen a Model A 250 numbered lower than #109. This leads me to suspect that serial numbers began with 100. The highest Model A 250 serial number I've ever seen was in the mid-12,000 range of numbers. Regards, Uncle On Jun 22, 2007, at 11:58 PM, Peter Fraser wrote: Early_A_250_levers Later_A-250_controls A_250_bedplate_detail -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] the early a-250
Thanks, Peter for this very welcome report. I've just returned from a day out in my vintage car and will take some time to review these latest comments and reply, most likely tomorrow. Thanks also for posting the images and password so that others can conveniently view them. Fascinating stuff about the serial numbers. I can add more to this when I get a moment. Thanks to Peter, Ron, George, John, Rich and Bruce for the input. If any others of our readers have more to add to the serial numbers and details of the A-250 or other first-generation D.D. phonographs, I'd love to include the data in our compilation. Best to All, Andy Baron On Jun 23, 2007, at 5:24 PM, john robles wrote: The highest Model A 250 serial number I've ever seen was in the mid-12,000 range of numbers. Hmm, my own A250 is numbered 12080, so I guess it is later in production than I thought. Either that or it is the one that Ron is talking about since he's been to my house a few times. There is another difference int he A-250 that I haven't found in the others. The lock mechanism takes a key that has only one notch cut into the 'tooth', not two as in all other DDs I have had or seen. I have a Dolphin key that has the one notch cut in it as the other will not fit. John Robles Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net wrote: Hi - Well, I heard back from Ron Dethlefson, and enclose his response below. And here are the pictures of Andy's machine, plus some additional oxidozed bronze hardware pix from Bruce Mercer: http://homepage.mac.com/pjfraser/phono/PhotoAlbum233.html the password is pook2e (no quotes). For large-scale versions of the pix, use the slideshow button, or single-click the individual shot in which you're interested. Cheers, Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net Begin forwarded message: From: ronald dethlefson Date: June 23, 2007 9:53:26 AM PDT To: Peter Fraser Subject: Re: pictures of the early a-250 Nephew, Yes, the stop mechanism shown is the first one. It's the same as on my A-250 #161. I've seen these mechanisms on #158 and #171. They probably were on the first 200 A250s manufactured in late 1912, according to Frow. A250s through #1200 were manufactured by March 1913, again according to Frow. The sound vents in the sides of the cabinets ended about #1200 too. I suspect that the stop mechanism was changed due to some patent issue. So much of the factory documentation was destroyed in the Dec. 1914 fire that the only way to document changes in Model A pnonographs is to look at the machines themselves. At least we now know that the first stop mechanism, was in use into the 1400 range of serial numbers. One other Model A tidbit. I've never seen a Model A 250 numbered lower than #109. This leads me to suspect that serial numbers began with 100. The highest Model A 250 serial number I've ever seen was in the mid-12,000 range of numbers. Regards, Uncle On Jun 22, 2007, at 11:58 PM, Peter Fraser wrote: Early_A_250_levers Later_A-250_controls A_250_bedplate_detail -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] the early a-250
What kind of vintage car you got? [Original Message] From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: 6/23/2007 11:05:01 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] the early a-250 Thanks, Peter for this very welcome report. I've just returned from a day out in my vintage car and will take some time to review these latest comments and reply, most likely tomorrow. Thanks also for posting the images and password so that others can conveniently view them. Fascinating stuff about the serial numbers. I can add more to this when I get a moment. Thanks to Peter, Ron, George, John, Rich and Bruce for the input. If any others of our readers have more to add to the serial numbers and details of the A-250 or other first-generation D.D. phonographs, I'd love to include the data in our compilation. Best to All, Andy Baron On Jun 23, 2007, at 5:24 PM, john robles wrote: The highest Model A 250 serial number I've ever seen was in the mid-12,000 range of numbers. Hmm, my own A250 is numbered 12080, so I guess it is later in production than I thought. Either that or it is the one that Ron is talking about since he's been to my house a few times. There is another difference int he A-250 that I haven't found in the others. The lock mechanism takes a key that has only one notch cut into the 'tooth', not two as in all other DDs I have had or seen. I have a Dolphin key that has the one notch cut in it as the other will not fit. John Robles Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net wrote: Hi - Well, I heard back from Ron Dethlefson, and enclose his response below. And here are the pictures of Andy's machine, plus some additional oxidozed bronze hardware pix from Bruce Mercer: http://homepage.mac.com/pjfraser/phono/PhotoAlbum233.html the password is pook2e (no quotes). For large-scale versions of the pix, use the slideshow button, or single-click the individual shot in which you're interested. Cheers, Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net Begin forwarded message: From: ronald dethlefson Date: June 23, 2007 9:53:26 AM PDT To: Peter Fraser Subject: Re: pictures of the early a-250 Nephew, Yes, the stop mechanism shown is the first one. It's the same as on my A-250 #161. I've seen these mechanisms on #158 and #171. They probably were on the first 200 A250s manufactured in late 1912, according to Frow. A250s through #1200 were manufactured by March 1913, again according to Frow. The sound vents in the sides of the cabinets ended about #1200 too. I suspect that the stop mechanism was changed due to some patent issue. So much of the factory documentation was destroyed in the Dec. 1914 fire that the only way to document changes in Model A pnonographs is to look at the machines themselves. At least we now know that the first stop mechanism, was in use into the 1400 range of serial numbers. One other Model A tidbit. I've never seen a Model A 250 numbered lower than #109. This leads me to suspect that serial numbers began with 100. The highest Model A 250 serial number I've ever seen was in the mid-12,000 range of numbers. Regards, Uncle On Jun 22, 2007, at 11:58 PM, Peter Fraser wrote: Early_A_250_levers Later_A-250_controls A_250_bedplate_detail -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] the early a-250
Andy, Please add the mahogany A250 in my collection, serial number 3215, to the list that uses the two piece hinged stop finger. I hesitate to describe this as a user adjustable or semi automatic stop until that has be established through research. The use a riveted joint to provide stop adjustment is not good engineering prctice because the joint would soon wear and slip. Also, notice the tab to hold the finger in the fully extended position as in the one piece design. I that suspect that the hinged finger has to do with motor servicing. The A-250 motor plate is not bolted to the case like on the later C-250 but hinged on the right in the same way as theAmberola 1 (B) mechanism. To service the Amberola the motor it is tilted up on the left and placed on the metal prop at the left end. I think this was planned for the A-250. Being able to retract the stop finger from overhanging the motorplate provided the ability to do this. What is not clear to me at this point is how to easily disengage the horn drive mechanism (rack) to allow the motor plate to swing up completely without removing it from the pivots. Perhaps we can investigate this. If it was not found impractical perhaps the hinged finger design was scrapped. Are there examples of A-250's without the hinged motor plate which use the later 3 bolt mounting design? That would also be a reason to abandon the hinged stop finger. I would be most happy if you post the results of your survey. Peter, thanks for posting the photos. Best Regards, Mark Silver Spring, MD [Original Message] From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: 6/23/2007 11:05:00 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] the early a-250 Thanks, Peter for this very welcome report. I've just returned from a day out in my vintage car and will take some time to review these latest comments and reply, most likely tomorrow. Thanks also for posting the images and password so that others can conveniently view them. Fascinating stuff about the serial numbers. I can add more to this when I get a moment. Thanks to Peter, Ron, George, John, Rich and Bruce for the input. If any others of our readers have more to add to the serial numbers and details of the A-250 or other first-generation D.D. phonographs, I'd love to include the data in our compilation. Best to All, Andy Baron On Jun 23, 2007, at 5:24 PM, john robles wrote: The highest Model A 250 serial number I've ever seen was in the mid-12,000 range of numbers. Hmm, my own A250 is numbered 12080, so I guess it is later in production than I thought. Either that or it is the one that Ron is talking about since he's been to my house a few times. There is another difference int he A-250 that I haven't found in the others. The lock mechanism takes a key that has only one notch cut into the 'tooth', not two as in all other DDs I have had or seen. I have a Dolphin key that has the one notch cut in it as the other will not fit. John Robles Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net wrote: Hi - Well, I heard back from Ron Dethlefson, and enclose his response below. And here are the pictures of Andy's machine, plus some additional oxidozed bronze hardware pix from Bruce Mercer: http://homepage.mac.com/pjfraser/phono/PhotoAlbum233.html the password is pook2e (no quotes). For large-scale versions of the pix, use the slideshow button, or single-click the individual shot in which you're interested. Cheers, Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net Begin forwarded message: From: ronald dethlefson Date: June 23, 2007 9:53:26 AM PDT To: Peter Fraser Subject: Re: pictures of the early a-250 Nephew, Yes, the stop mechanism shown is the first one. It's the same as on my A-250 #161. I've seen these mechanisms on #158 and #171. They probably were on the first 200 A250s manufactured in late 1912, according to Frow. A250s through #1200 were manufactured by March 1913, again according to Frow. The sound vents in the sides of the cabinets ended about #1200 too. I suspect that the stop mechanism was changed due to some patent issue. So much of the factory documentation was destroyed in the Dec. 1914 fire that the only way to document changes in Model A pnonographs is to look at the machines themselves. At least we now know that the first stop mechanism, was in use into the 1400 range of serial numbers. One other Model A tidbit. I've never seen a Model A 250 numbered lower than #109. This leads me to suspect that serial numbers began with 100. The highest Model A 250 serial number I've ever seen was in the mid-12,000 range of numbers. Regards, Uncle On Jun 22, 2007, at 11:58 PM, Peter Fraser wrote: Early_A_250_levers Later_A-250_controls A_250_bedplate_detail -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com
