Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
> Anyway my initial point is Github always was a closed company, so if that > was not a problem in the past it should not be now under MS umbrella, we're > standing at the same place Thanks for double stressing. This was an eye opener. Some references: 1. https://www.wired.com/2012/05/torvalds-github/ 2. https://www.infoworld.com/article/3033059/linux/what-do-linux-developers-think-of-git-and-github.html > On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 8:25 AM, Alexander Williams > wrote: > >> I agree with Alexander Sharihin. The only/best option is self-hosted. >> "Other platforms" is just moving "the problem" from X to Y. >> >> I've also got a custom diy repo cloning tool, which generates a nice >> HTML page. It didn't take long to write (in PicoLisp, of course), so >> perhaps it's a good way for others to exercise their pil-coding-muscles >> ;) >> >> >> AW >> >> On 06/05/2018 08:03 AM, Alexander Sharihin wrote: >> > Hello! >> > >> > GitLab works on Microsoft's Azure Cloud. >> > >> > As I know picolisp developed without using github nor gitlab. >> > >> > If you care about freedom use only self-hosted solutions(I'm using just >> > a >> > ssh-server and user named git with simple diy repo creating tool). >> > >> > 2018-06-05 9:52 GMT+03:00 pd : >> > >> >> Best alternative probably is gitlab which is free and git based >> >> >> >> Anyway there's no reason to change right now because github already >> >> was >> >> non-free and closed so there's nothing new with MS, just a closed >> company >> >> swapping. If github was good before it could be good now Just sit down >> to >> >> see what MS is planning >> >> >> >> El Mar 05/06/2018, 8:45, Nehal escribió: >> >> >> >>> Dear PicoLisp programmers, >> >>> >> >>> Just see attached news of GitHub been sold out to Microsoft. Being >> former >> >>> FSF licensing intern I strongly believe we now need to look forward >> >>> to >> >>> another free code hosting platform in order to keep our projects, >> >>> especially PicoLisp source files free and open Source in its true >> spirit >> >>> and not be under umbrella of proprietary firms that are not true to >> spirit >> >>> of FOSS. >> >>> >> >>> There is an urgent need to ponder on this and take a strong decision >> >>> to >> >>> move stuff from GitHub altogether. Mercurial ( >> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ >> >>> wiki/Mercurial), GNU Savannah (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ >> >>> wiki/GNU_Savannah) may be other alternatives! >> >>> >> >>> Regards, >> >>> Nehal >> >>> >> >>> सा विद्या या विमुक्तये >> >>> >> >> >> > >> >> > -- Warm Regards, Nehal Singhal -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
the problem with self hosting is rising costs and risk, you assume the maintenance of the whole system and the cost of keeping it alive while a platform perform those tasks for you so IMHO is better to go for a FS platform and company if that is important too A platform with a big infrastructure will always be better for users than a shelf hosting in a personal machine Anyway my initial point is Github always was a closed company, so if that was not a problem in the past it should not be now under MS umbrella, we're standing at the same place On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 8:25 AM, Alexander Williams wrote: > I agree with Alexander Sharihin. The only/best option is self-hosted. > "Other platforms" is just moving "the problem" from X to Y. > > I've also got a custom diy repo cloning tool, which generates a nice > HTML page. It didn't take long to write (in PicoLisp, of course), so > perhaps it's a good way for others to exercise their pil-coding-muscles ;) > > > AW > > On 06/05/2018 08:03 AM, Alexander Sharihin wrote: > > Hello! > > > > GitLab works on Microsoft's Azure Cloud. > > > > As I know picolisp developed without using github nor gitlab. > > > > If you care about freedom use only self-hosted solutions(I'm using just a > > ssh-server and user named git with simple diy repo creating tool). > > > > 2018-06-05 9:52 GMT+03:00 pd : > > > >> Best alternative probably is gitlab which is free and git based > >> > >> Anyway there's no reason to change right now because github already was > >> non-free and closed so there's nothing new with MS, just a closed > company > >> swapping. If github was good before it could be good now Just sit down > to > >> see what MS is planning > >> > >> El Mar 05/06/2018, 8:45, Nehal escribió: > >> > >>> Dear PicoLisp programmers, > >>> > >>> Just see attached news of GitHub been sold out to Microsoft. Being > former > >>> FSF licensing intern I strongly believe we now need to look forward to > >>> another free code hosting platform in order to keep our projects, > >>> especially PicoLisp source files free and open Source in its true > spirit > >>> and not be under umbrella of proprietary firms that are not true to > spirit > >>> of FOSS. > >>> > >>> There is an urgent need to ponder on this and take a strong decision to > >>> move stuff from GitHub altogether. Mercurial ( > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ > >>> wiki/Mercurial), GNU Savannah (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ > >>> wiki/GNU_Savannah) may be other alternatives! > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Nehal > >>> > >>> सा विद्या या विमुक्तये > >>> > >> > > > >
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
I agree with both your points. Regards, Nehal सा विद्या या विमुक्तये On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 12:02 PM Alexander Williams wrote: > I agree with Alexander Sharihin. The only/best option is self-hosted. > "Other platforms" is just moving "the problem" from X to Y. > > I've also got a custom diy repo cloning tool, which generates a nice > HTML page. It didn't take long to write (in PicoLisp, of course), so > perhaps it's a good way for others to exercise their pil-coding-muscles ;) > > > AW > > On 06/05/2018 08:03 AM, Alexander Sharihin wrote: > > Hello! > > > > GitLab works on Microsoft's Azure Cloud. > > > > As I know picolisp developed without using github nor gitlab. > > > > If you care about freedom use only self-hosted solutions(I'm using just a > > ssh-server and user named git with simple diy repo creating tool). > > > > 2018-06-05 9:52 GMT+03:00 pd : > > > >> Best alternative probably is gitlab which is free and git based > >> > >> Anyway there's no reason to change right now because github already was > >> non-free and closed so there's nothing new with MS, just a closed > company > >> swapping. If github was good before it could be good now Just sit down > to > >> see what MS is planning > >> > >> El Mar 05/06/2018, 8:45, Nehal escribió: > >> > >>> Dear PicoLisp programmers, > >>> > >>> Just see attached news of GitHub been sold out to Microsoft. Being > former > >>> FSF licensing intern I strongly believe we now need to look forward to > >>> another free code hosting platform in order to keep our projects, > >>> especially PicoLisp source files free and open Source in its true > spirit > >>> and not be under umbrella of proprietary firms that are not true to > spirit > >>> of FOSS. > >>> > >>> There is an urgent need to ponder on this and take a strong decision to > >>> move stuff from GitHub altogether. Mercurial ( > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ > >>> wiki/Mercurial), GNU Savannah (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ > >>> wiki/GNU_Savannah) may be other alternatives! > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Nehal > >>> > >>> सा विद्या या विमुक्तये > >>> > >> > > > >
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
I agree with Alexander Sharihin. The only/best option is self-hosted. "Other platforms" is just moving "the problem" from X to Y. I've also got a custom diy repo cloning tool, which generates a nice HTML page. It didn't take long to write (in PicoLisp, of course), so perhaps it's a good way for others to exercise their pil-coding-muscles ;) AW On 06/05/2018 08:03 AM, Alexander Sharihin wrote: > Hello! > > GitLab works on Microsoft's Azure Cloud. > > As I know picolisp developed without using github nor gitlab. > > If you care about freedom use only self-hosted solutions(I'm using just a > ssh-server and user named git with simple diy repo creating tool). > > 2018-06-05 9:52 GMT+03:00 pd : > >> Best alternative probably is gitlab which is free and git based >> >> Anyway there's no reason to change right now because github already was >> non-free and closed so there's nothing new with MS, just a closed company >> swapping. If github was good before it could be good now Just sit down to >> see what MS is planning >> >> El Mar 05/06/2018, 8:45, Nehal escribió: >> >>> Dear PicoLisp programmers, >>> >>> Just see attached news of GitHub been sold out to Microsoft. Being former >>> FSF licensing intern I strongly believe we now need to look forward to >>> another free code hosting platform in order to keep our projects, >>> especially PicoLisp source files free and open Source in its true spirit >>> and not be under umbrella of proprietary firms that are not true to spirit >>> of FOSS. >>> >>> There is an urgent need to ponder on this and take a strong decision to >>> move stuff from GitHub altogether. Mercurial (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ >>> wiki/Mercurial), GNU Savannah (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ >>> wiki/GNU_Savannah) may be other alternatives! >>> >>> Regards, >>> Nehal >>> >>> सा विद्या या विमुक्तये >>> >> > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
> While I personally are on your side here, I think people can end up for > instance loving Java and complex systems and at the same time hate > surveillance and centralisation. Yes, that's what I meant by *principle* -> *design* -> *philosophy*. > > // Jakob > > > -- > UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subjectUnsubscribe > -- Warm Regards, Nehal Singhal
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
Hello Philipp, > Gitlab is also not totally free software. 1. I meant free in sense of "free speech", not "free beer" as Richard Stallman (gnu.org, stallman.org) would say! 2. https://motherboard.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/ywen8x/13000-projects-ditched-github-for-gitlab-monday-morning 3. SourceForge needs serious consideration. Also providing Github Importer. https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/GitHub%20Importer/ > Personally, I > will be setting up a gitea instance at some point, as it was something I > have been meaning to do for a long time, but I'll still keep the > majority of my code on github, at least as a mirror, for now, as the > social aspect means it's easier for people to see it (not that many > people are interested in my projects, but still) I would really like to understand your project in case you like to share details here or at my email (nehalsingha...@gmail.com). Thank you. > > > Phil > > -- > UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe > -- Warm Regards, Nehal Singhal -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
> 5 juni 2018 kl. 14:05 skrev Nehal : > > Hello Jakob, > > I believe it's ultimately about principle -> design -> philosophy (of > course security features matter!) of any software/service. Otherwise > why even invest time on picolisp, Java (or similar others) would be > better! While I personally are on your side here, I think people can end up for instance loving Java and complex systems and at the same time hate surveillance and centralisation. // Jakob -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
Yes, that was my point, I will be sticking with Github for some time because of the social aspect, but I want to self host for other reasons. I don't think that Github's data mining or social features are particularly disgusting. Due to the nature of what it is, and the data that is provided to it, it cannot be as intrusive as most social networks. I don't particularly care that it may get leaked that I code mostly in C, and only star repositories with punny names. My worry about Github is not this, but that Microsoft may attempt to "streamline" the experience later, or change the featureset, require ones that are relied upon to be paid for or whatever. This is not an issue with Github right now, and it may not be an issue with Github in the future, but it is a risk as Microsoft has done similar things with Skype for example. This is one of the reasons why I will be switching to self hosting and using Github as a mirror, as a backup in case the features that I do use become unavailable in future. At the end of the day, Github is still a great solution, a lot of people are leaving it on principle, whether this is a sensible move or not is for each person to weigh up, but there are plenty of options available. Phil -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
Hello Jakob, > But if you dislike GitHub on > principle or because the data mining and the surveillance of the social > function is disgusting to you, you should not use it. I believe it's ultimately about principle -> design -> philosophy (of course security features matter!) of any software/service. Otherwise why even invest time on picolisp, Java (or similar others) would be better! >> 5 juni 2018 kl. 13:12 skrev Philipp Geyer : >> >> If you really want security then self hosting is the way to go. >> >> Everyone offers a self hosted solution, although some are more pricey >> than others. Github and Bitbucket self hosting. Github is $2.5k /10 >> users / year, Bitbucket is $2 / user / month. Gitlab also costs money if >> you don't want the community version which is missing a bunch of >> features (starting at $4/user/month) >> >> Gitlab is also not totally free software. >> >> "Better" solutions if you want to self host git with a web frontend >> appears to be gogs, or the more featureful fork, gitea. Personally, I >> will be setting up a gitea instance at some point, as it was something I >> have been meaning to do for a long time, but I'll still keep the >> majority of my code on github, at least as a mirror, for now, as the >> social aspect means it's easier for people to see it (not that many >> people are interested in my projects, but still) >> >> >> Phil >> >> -- >> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe > > > -- > UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subjectUnsubscribe > -- Warm Regards, Nehal Singhal -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
THE selling point of github for individuals and small projects, is the social aspect. And you have to think about what you are securing yourself from. It’s not like GitHub is going to take your code and run. But if you dislike GitHub on principle or because the data mining and the surveillance of the social function is disgusting to you, you should not use it. > 5 juni 2018 kl. 13:12 skrev Philipp Geyer : > > If you really want security then self hosting is the way to go. > > Everyone offers a self hosted solution, although some are more pricey > than others. Github and Bitbucket self hosting. Github is $2.5k /10 > users / year, Bitbucket is $2 / user / month. Gitlab also costs money if > you don't want the community version which is missing a bunch of > features (starting at $4/user/month) > > Gitlab is also not totally free software. > > "Better" solutions if you want to self host git with a web frontend > appears to be gogs, or the more featureful fork, gitea. Personally, I > will be setting up a gitea instance at some point, as it was something I > have been meaning to do for a long time, but I'll still keep the > majority of my code on github, at least as a mirror, for now, as the > social aspect means it's easier for people to see it (not that many > people are interested in my projects, but still) > > > Phil > > -- > UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
If you really want security then self hosting is the way to go. Everyone offers a self hosted solution, although some are more pricey than others. Github and Bitbucket self hosting. Github is $2.5k /10 users / year, Bitbucket is $2 / user / month. Gitlab also costs money if you don't want the community version which is missing a bunch of features (starting at $4/user/month) Gitlab is also not totally free software. "Better" solutions if you want to self host git with a web frontend appears to be gogs, or the more featureful fork, gitea. Personally, I will be setting up a gitea instance at some point, as it was something I have been meaning to do for a long time, but I'll still keep the majority of my code on github, at least as a mirror, for now, as the social aspect means it's easier for people to see it (not that many people are interested in my projects, but still) Phil -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
you can install gitlab in your own cloud ;-) On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 10:03 AM, Alexander Sharihin wrote: > Hello! > > GitLab works on Microsoft's Azure Cloud. > > As I know picolisp developed without using github nor gitlab. > > If you care about freedom use only self-hosted solutions(I'm using just a > ssh-server and user named git with simple diy repo creating tool). > > 2018-06-05 9:52 GMT+03:00 pd : > >> Best alternative probably is gitlab which is free and git based >> >> Anyway there's no reason to change right now because github already was >> non-free and closed so there's nothing new with MS, just a closed company >> swapping. If github was good before it could be good now Just sit down to >> see what MS is planning >> >> El Mar 05/06/2018, 8:45, Nehal escribió: >> >>> Dear PicoLisp programmers, >>> >>> Just see attached news of GitHub been sold out to Microsoft. Being >>> former FSF licensing intern I strongly believe we now need to look forward >>> to another free code hosting platform in order to keep our projects, >>> especially PicoLisp source files free and open Source in its true spirit >>> and not be under umbrella of proprietary firms that are not true to spirit >>> of FOSS. >>> >>> There is an urgent need to ponder on this and take a strong decision to >>> move stuff from GitHub altogether. Mercurial ( >>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercurial), GNU Savannah ( >>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Savannah) may be other >>> alternatives! >>> >>> Regards, >>> Nehal >>> >>> सा विद्या या विमुक्तये >>> >> >
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
Hello! GitLab works on Microsoft's Azure Cloud. As I know picolisp developed without using github nor gitlab. If you care about freedom use only self-hosted solutions(I'm using just a ssh-server and user named git with simple diy repo creating tool). 2018-06-05 9:52 GMT+03:00 pd : > Best alternative probably is gitlab which is free and git based > > Anyway there's no reason to change right now because github already was > non-free and closed so there's nothing new with MS, just a closed company > swapping. If github was good before it could be good now Just sit down to > see what MS is planning > > El Mar 05/06/2018, 8:45, Nehal escribió: > >> Dear PicoLisp programmers, >> >> Just see attached news of GitHub been sold out to Microsoft. Being former >> FSF licensing intern I strongly believe we now need to look forward to >> another free code hosting platform in order to keep our projects, >> especially PicoLisp source files free and open Source in its true spirit >> and not be under umbrella of proprietary firms that are not true to spirit >> of FOSS. >> >> There is an urgent need to ponder on this and take a strong decision to >> move stuff from GitHub altogether. Mercurial (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ >> wiki/Mercurial), GNU Savannah (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/ >> wiki/GNU_Savannah) may be other alternatives! >> >> Regards, >> Nehal >> >> सा विद्या या विमुक्तये >> >
Re: GitHub sold out to Microsoft
Best alternative probably is gitlab which is free and git based Anyway there's no reason to change right now because github already was non-free and closed so there's nothing new with MS, just a closed company swapping. If github was good before it could be good now. Just sit down to see what MS is planning El Mar 05/06/2018, 8:45, Nehal escribió: > Dear PicoLisp programmers, > > Just see attached news of GitHub been sold out to Microsoft. Being former > FSF licensing intern I strongly believe we now need to look forward to > another free code hosting platform in order to keep our projects, > especially PicoLisp source files free and open Source in its true spirit > and not be under umbrella of proprietary firms that are not true to spirit > of FOSS. > > There is an urgent need to ponder on this and take a strong decision to > move stuff from GitHub altogether. Mercurial ( > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercurial), GNU Savannah ( > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Savannah) may be other alternatives! > > Regards, > Nehal > > सा विद्या या विमुक्तये >
