Re: Linux in China?

[Derek Trotter]

On 11/15/2012 03:46 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:


Perhaps we should create a massive [Chinese] spam campaign that 
installs a bot-net to infect with 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/statix/ and track Linux desktops?


It shouldn't be hard for anyone interested in the project to write the 
spam.  Come up with some idea of what you want to say and run it through 
Google translate.  Judging by the English skills of the people who write 
the spam I get, that's what they're doing.

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Re: Linux in China?

[Ted Gould]

On Thu, 2012-11-15 at 15:59 -0500, R P Herrold wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2012, Ted Gould wrote:
> > The MS representatives believe that the reason Ubuntu is big in China is
> > because people are buying machines to pirate Windows.  Unfortunately
> > it's hard to prove that isn't the case (which is one of the reasons they
> > argue it).  So, in general, it's hard to say "how big" in this case, but
> 
> There is nothing 'unfortunate' about it at all -- The MSFT 
> representatives are parrotting a party line, and trying to 
> frame a debate about intellectual property rights which China 
> agreed to enforce as part of joining WIPO.  Open Source does 
> not have a dog in that fight

No, they're trying to discredit Ubuntu adoption in China by saying it
doesn't exist.  This makes it hard to go to people like ISVs and argue
there's a market for their software if they port it.  That, in turn,
reduces the number of people that can use Ubuntu because it doesn't
support the software that they need.  So, it is unfortunate, but yes I
don't think there is a reasonable way to count the number of users of
truly free software.

--Ted



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Re: Linux in China?

[Lisa Kachold]

There are a few problems with trying to get accurate Linux numbers:

1. Many Linux users dual-boot with Windows, so do they count as 1/2 a Linux
user? Or do they get counted twice (once for Linux, once for Windows)?

2. Linux doesn't have any sales figures for home users (and even for many
servers), unlike Mac OS X and Windows.

3. Many Linux users choose to mask or hide their online identities, either
for anonymity or to get proper functionality from certain Internet
Explorer-only websites.

4. Many Linux users have multiple computers (so does each computer owned
count as a Linux user or is that one person a Linux user?).

Perhaps we should create a massive [Chinese] spam campaign that installs a
bot-net to infect with http://sourceforge.net/projects/statix/ and track
Linux desktops?

Our concept of the culture of China and "linux use" is based entirely upon
our American consideration that every family (and individual) has a
"personal computer".  In China, it's more common for only a small
percentage of the upper middle class families to have ONE  "personal
phone", smartphone or tablet.

Computer *ownership* is now at about 4-5% of the worlds population. However
with many social projects putting computers in villages in developing
countries between 12-14% of the worlds population have access to a
computer. Approx 3-5 % of the worlds population have internet access.   To
put this into context only about 25% of the worlds population sleep in
their own bed at night and only about 30% of the worlds population are rich
enough to have a bank account!

 China's "Internet population" is touted to be 415.6 million. This figure
includes people who access the Web through Internet cafes or public
computers and smartphones.

Scientific and development based internet use (therefore much of Linux) is
strictly controlled in China.

W3Counter http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php has linux use as 1.8 %,
of course that's not China.




On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:06 PM, mike enriquez  wrote:

>  Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in China?
>
> I wonder if linux is big in China?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Enriquez
>
> **
>
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Re: Linux in China?

[Michael Havens]

http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3676641/Linux+Still+a+Hit+in+China.htm
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 1:59 PM, R P Herrold  wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Nov 2012, Ted Gould wrote:
>
>  The MS representatives believe that the reason Ubuntu is big in China is
>> because people are buying machines to pirate Windows.  Unfortunately
>> it's hard to prove that isn't the case (which is one of the reasons they
>> argue it).  So, in general, it's hard to say "how big" in this case, but
>>
>
> There is nothing 'unfortunate' about it at all -- The MSFT representatives
> are parrotting a party line, and trying to frame a debate about
> intellectual property rights which China agreed to enforce as part of
> joining WIPO.  Open Source does not have a dog in that fight
>
> Open Source does not control the actions of its purchasers or users, nor
> have an obligation to facilitate control schemes that others might want
> adopted.  Just the opposite -- see Stallman's Four Freedoms essays over
> time -- By and large, it seeks to provide software freedom of many forms
>
> I don't recall Microsoft _asking_ the FSF about the new UEFI bootloaders
> which vastly complicate the rights of owners of hardware wanting to use
> Open Source before functionally mandating it to the large manufacturers.
>  They just rammed it through with market power
>
> -- Russ herrold
>
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Re: Linux in China?

[R P Herrold]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012, Ted Gould wrote:


The MS representatives believe that the reason Ubuntu is big in China is
because people are buying machines to pirate Windows.  Unfortunately
it's hard to prove that isn't the case (which is one of the reasons they
argue it).  So, in general, it's hard to say "how big" in this case, but


There is nothing 'unfortunate' about it at all -- The MSFT 
representatives are parrotting a party line, and trying to 
frame a debate about intellectual property rights which China 
agreed to enforce as part of joining WIPO.  Open Source does 
not have a dog in that fight


Open Source does not control the actions of its purchasers or 
users, nor have an obligation to facilitate control schemes 
that others might want adopted.  Just the opposite -- see 
Stallman's Four Freedoms essays over time -- By and large, it 
seeks to provide software freedom of many forms


I don't recall Microsoft _asking_ the FSF about the new UEFI 
bootloaders which vastly complicate the rights of owners of 
hardware wanting to use Open Source before functionally 
mandating it to the large manufacturers.  They just rammed it 
through with market power


-- Russ herrold
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Re: Linux in China?

[Derek Trotter]

It seems like someone in Redmond is grasping at straws.  WIndows boxes 
can copy M$ software, post it to usenet, download it from Usenet and 
burn it to disc.  It can also be shared using your favorite p2p software.


On 11/15/2012 12:45 PM, Ted Gould wrote:

On Thu, 2012-11-15 at 12:06 -0700, mike enriquez wrote:

Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in
China?

I wonder if linux is big in China?

http://blog.canonical.com/2011/10/27/retail-stores-in-china/

That was from last year.  Dell has stores in China that sell Ubuntu
directly, where you can't get a retail Dell machine in the US today that
has Ubuntu on it.[1]

The MS representatives believe that the reason Ubuntu is big in China is
because people are buying machines to pirate Windows.  Unfortunately
it's hard to prove that isn't the case (which is one of the reasons they
argue it).  So, in general, it's hard to say "how big" in this case, but
definitely from a visibility perspective it's much larger than in the
US.

--Ted

[1] Though that is hopefully changing:
http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/campaigns/sputnik


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Re: Linux in China?

[Derek Trotter]

That's a good question.  From what I've heard software piracy there is 
illegal on the books, but in practice it's tolerated.  A few years ago I 
read something in the Register about the Chinese government trying to 
promote a version of linux that was supposed to be customized for China.


I wouldn't touch if even if I could read Chinese.  There's no telling 
how many security holes are in it and how many undocumented back doors 
are built in by design.


On 11/15/2012 12:06 PM, mike enriquez wrote:

Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in China?

I wonder if linux is big in China?

Thanks

Mike Enriquez




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Re: Linux in China?

[Michael Havens]

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/11/05/china.linux.reut/
http://www.informationweek.com/microsoft-fights-piracy-in-china-linux-w/170700943
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4254330887.html

:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:51 PM, Michael Havens  wrote:

> http://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=linux+china
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:06 PM, mike enriquez  wrote:
>
>>  Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in China?
>>
>> I wonder if linux is big in China?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mike Enriquez
>>
>> **
>>
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Re: Linux in China?

[Ted Gould]

On Thu, 2012-11-15 at 12:06 -0700, mike enriquez wrote:
> Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in
> China?
>
> I wonder if linux is big in China?

http://blog.canonical.com/2011/10/27/retail-stores-in-china/

That was from last year.  Dell has stores in China that sell Ubuntu
directly, where you can't get a retail Dell machine in the US today that
has Ubuntu on it.[1]

The MS representatives believe that the reason Ubuntu is big in China is
because people are buying machines to pirate Windows.  Unfortunately
it's hard to prove that isn't the case (which is one of the reasons they
argue it).  So, in general, it's hard to say "how big" in this case, but
definitely from a visibility perspective it's much larger than in the
US.

--Ted

[1] Though that is hopefully changing:
http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/campaigns/sputnik


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Re: Linux in China?

[Michael Havens]

http://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=linux+china
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:06 PM, mike enriquez  wrote:

>  Does anyone on the list know anything about the status of Linux in China?
>
> I wonder if linux is big in China?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Enriquez
>
> **
>
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