Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?

2011-05-16 Thread duportail

Op 16-5-2011 10:51, Tomasz Chmielewski schreef:

On 16.05.2011 10:43, duportail wrote:


Currently i use a script to set the users' default sink according the
display he is on, because you do not know which user is logged in on
which display.


I only have one sound card for all users, so I guess your scripts 
wouldn't help much?



I use a usb soundcard per display.I log in at each display to detect the 
sink of the usb soundcard that is for that display.
Than a script to set the default sink per display, this script is called 
in the users' autostart function.
If the user logs in, the script finds out what $DISPLAY and sets the 
default sink.

The .pulse dir should be empty.
I did some work regarding udev rules and consolekit stuff, but it is so 
difficult to re-configure remote systems if somehow a hub is broken or 
replaced on the computer.

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?

2011-05-16 Thread Colin Guthrie
'Twas brillig, and Tomasz Chmielewski at 16/05/11 10:49 did gyre and gimble:
> On 16.05.2011 11:37, Colin Guthrie wrote:
> 
>> Well in this evironment, I'd say that if you only have one card to be
>> shared between the seats, then system wide mode is likely the right
>> option.
>>
>> It's not nice generally because:
>>   2. One user can spy on the other user monitor their VOIP streams etc.
> 
> Since all users hear the same audio from loudspeakers, it's not a
> concern :)

Indeed. One man's "problem" is another man's "feature". :p

>> And we don't test it particularly heavily, but all in all it should work
>> fine (assuming you write your own init script and/or your distro does
>> that for you).
> 
> Unfortunately, it does not work fine, and was a reason why I'm
> investigating running PulseAudio per-user.
> 
> When I run it in system mode, it crashes (or exits? not sure). It's not
> something what happens very often - once every 3 days perhaps. But
> annoying (no music anymore, normal user can't start PA in system mode
> etc.).
> Since the documentation said I'm not likely to get any help when asking
> for system mode issues, I though I'm really doing something wrong and I
> should use it per-user.

Ahh, we're probably a little too forceful there I guess. It's generally
to discourage people from the wrong path as there are not that many
cases where it makes sense. In your case it does make sense.

With regards to bugs, we'll obviously take a look at any problem,
especially as one that is triggered in the system-wide case may be
triggered in the per-user case too but under less obvious circumstances
(or masked by the fact that a typical per-user setup with autospawn
again automatically if it crashes). All bugs will be looked at.

When we switch over the website stuff, I'll take a look at rephrasing
that section a little.


>>> If I start PulseAudio in the user mode, only one user gets a sound card;
>>> the second one gets "Dummy Output".
>>
>> Yeah, that's either because the second user does not have permission to
>> access the device (due to ConsoleKit ACLs only the "active"
>> (ck-list-sessions) user should get the ACL, but this could actually
>> cover both users in your setup) or due to the fact that the card can
>> only be opened once.
>>
>> Normally what you'd due is define some kind of udev magic that defines
>> "seats" and thus contextually assigns certain USB ports and/or h/w to a
>> given seat. Then when a user (any user - it's not tied to the seat) logs
>> in, console-kit and udev both apply the right ACLs and PA can start and
>> only show the relevant sound cards to the relevant seats. This is how it
>> should work in an ideal world - everyone getting their own stuff. But in
>> a situation where you accept all the problems listed above (things like
>> security likely don't apply when people know each other :)) then system
>> wide is fine.
>>
>> Hope that helps :)
> 
> Well, the theory is nice :) but from user's perspective, sound with
> multiseat became unreliable when distributions migrated to PulseAudio
> (not that the life of a multiseat user was ever easy, but still, it's
> yet one thing which discourages multiseat).
> 
> Perhaps I'll try to see why PA crashes/exits when used by multiple users
> in the system mode, report it to the mailing list, and hope won't get
> too many "system mode is unsupported, go away" replies ;)

Yeah, please do that :)

If you can somehow manage to get a backtrace out of it that would be
great. I find running gdb separate and connecting to PA with the
appropriate "handle..." line before continueing is the best way to get a
good backtrace. I guess leaving it running in a screen and waiting for a
crash is the best approach here?

Some info (including the handle line mentioned above):
http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/Community#BugsPatchesTranslations


Col


-- 

Colin Guthrie
gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie
http://colin.guthr.ie/

Day Job:
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?

2011-05-16 Thread Michał Sawicz
Dnia 2011-05-16, pon o godzinie 10:51 +0200, Tomasz Chmielewski pisze:
> I only have one sound card for all users, so I guess your scripts 
> wouldn't help much? 

No, for proper multiseat you need a card per user (note that might be
USB speakers, too).

I believe when you use a USB hub at each seat, you could have the
speakers bound to seats using the hubs' bus-ids or similar.

Cheers
-- 
Michał Sawicz 


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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?

2011-05-16 Thread Tomasz Chmielewski

On 16.05.2011 11:37, Colin Guthrie wrote:


Well in this evironment, I'd say that if you only have one card to be
shared between the seats, then system wide mode is likely the right option.

It's not nice generally because:
  2. One user can spy on the other user monitor their VOIP streams etc.


Since all users hear the same audio from loudspeakers, it's not a concern :)



And we don't test it particularly heavily, but all in all it should work
fine (assuming you write your own init script and/or your distro does
that for you).


Unfortunately, it does not work fine, and was a reason why I'm 
investigating running PulseAudio per-user.


When I run it in system mode, it crashes (or exits? not sure). It's not 
something what happens very often - once every 3 days perhaps. But 
annoying (no music anymore, normal user can't start PA in system mode etc.).
Since the documentation said I'm not likely to get any help when asking 
for system mode issues, I though I'm really doing something wrong and I 
should use it per-user.




If I start PulseAudio in the user mode, only one user gets a sound card;
the second one gets "Dummy Output".


Yeah, that's either because the second user does not have permission to
access the device (due to ConsoleKit ACLs only the "active"
(ck-list-sessions) user should get the ACL, but this could actually
cover both users in your setup) or due to the fact that the card can
only be opened once.

Normally what you'd due is define some kind of udev magic that defines
"seats" and thus contextually assigns certain USB ports and/or h/w to a
given seat. Then when a user (any user - it's not tied to the seat) logs
in, console-kit and udev both apply the right ACLs and PA can start and
only show the relevant sound cards to the relevant seats. This is how it
should work in an ideal world - everyone getting their own stuff. But in
a situation where you accept all the problems listed above (things like
security likely don't apply when people know each other :)) then system
wide is fine.

Hope that helps :)


Well, the theory is nice :) but from user's perspective, sound with 
multiseat became unreliable when distributions migrated to PulseAudio 
(not that the life of a multiseat user was ever easy, but still, it's 
yet one thing which discourages multiseat).


Perhaps I'll try to see why PA crashes/exits when used by multiple users 
in the system mode, report it to the mailing list, and hope won't get 
too many "system mode is unsupported, go away" replies ;)



--
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http://wpkg.org
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?

2011-05-16 Thread Colin Guthrie
'Twas brillig, and Tomasz Chmielewski at 16/05/11 09:49 did gyre and gimble:
> On 16.05.2011 08:49, David Henningsson wrote:
>> On 2011-05-14 17:46, Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:
>>> Traditionally, UNIX systems were supporting multiseat desktop sessions
>>> (i.e. multiple keyboards, video cards, monitors attached to one PC).
>>>
>>> According to:
>>>
>>> http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode
>>>
>>> What is wrong with system mode?
>>>
>>> Or with other words: if you run it that way on your desktop,
>>> then you are doing it the wrong way.
>>>
>>>
>>> What is the correct way to use PulseAudio with multiseat systems?
>>
>> Assuming there is also one sound card per seat, you should run one
>> PulseAudio per seat, and as the user currently logged in to that seat.
>> Exactly how to do that, i e set up access to the right sound card for
>> the logged in user (with ConsoleKit etc) is beyond my knowledge though.
> 
> I only have one sound card in the PC.
> 
> It works fine when I start PulseAudio in the system mode, but according
> to documentation, this is unsupported, strongly discouraged and should
> only be used in some embedded setups.
> So I'd like to do it "the right way" - unfortunately, PulseAudio
> documentation does not explain how to setup PulseAudio with multiseat.

Well in this evironment, I'd say that if you only have one card to be
shared between the seats, then system wide mode is likely the right option.

It's not nice generally because:
 1. We cannot use SHM for memory transfer leading to more memcpy overhead.
 2. One user can spy on the other user monitor their VOIP streams etc.
 3. Module loading is disabled (for security) by default on system wide
which IIRC affects hotplug etc.
 4. There are some issues with Bluetooth permissions for BT devices (it
can be configured of course but finding it is tricky - I've got mails
flagged in my inbox to add this documentation at some point).

And we don't test it particularly heavily, but all in all it should work
fine (assuming you write your own init script and/or your distro does
that for you).

> If I start PulseAudio in the user mode, only one user gets a sound card;
> the second one gets "Dummy Output".

Yeah, that's either because the second user does not have permission to
access the device (due to ConsoleKit ACLs only the "active"
(ck-list-sessions) user should get the ACL, but this could actually
cover both users in your setup) or due to the fact that the card can
only be opened once.

Normally what you'd due is define some kind of udev magic that defines
"seats" and thus contextually assigns certain USB ports and/or h/w to a
given seat. Then when a user (any user - it's not tied to the seat) logs
in, console-kit and udev both apply the right ACLs and PA can start and
only show the relevant sound cards to the relevant seats. This is how it
should work in an ideal world - everyone getting their own stuff. But in
a situation where you accept all the problems listed above (things like
security likely don't apply when people know each other :)) then system
wide is fine.

Hope that helps :)

Col

-- 

Colin Guthrie
gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie
http://colin.guthr.ie/

Day Job:
  Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/]
Open Source:
  Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/]
  PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/]
  Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?

2011-05-16 Thread Tomasz Chmielewski

On 16.05.2011 10:43, duportail wrote:


Currently i use a script to set the users' default sink according the
display he is on, because you do not know which user is logged in on
which display.


I only have one sound card for all users, so I guess your scripts 
wouldn't help much?



--
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http://wpkg.org
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?

2011-05-16 Thread Tomasz Chmielewski

On 16.05.2011 08:49, David Henningsson wrote:

On 2011-05-14 17:46, Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:

Traditionally, UNIX systems were supporting multiseat desktop sessions
(i.e. multiple keyboards, video cards, monitors attached to one PC).

According to:

http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode

What is wrong with system mode?

Or with other words: if you run it that way on your desktop,
then you are doing it the wrong way.


What is the correct way to use PulseAudio with multiseat systems?


Assuming there is also one sound card per seat, you should run one
PulseAudio per seat, and as the user currently logged in to that seat.
Exactly how to do that, i e set up access to the right sound card for
the logged in user (with ConsoleKit etc) is beyond my knowledge though.


I only have one sound card in the PC.

It works fine when I start PulseAudio in the system mode, but according 
to documentation, this is unsupported, strongly discouraged and should 
only be used in some embedded setups.
So I'd like to do it "the right way" - unfortunately, PulseAudio 
documentation does not explain how to setup PulseAudio with multiseat.



If I start PulseAudio in the user mode, only one user gets a sound card; 
the second one gets "Dummy Output".




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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?

2011-05-16 Thread duportail

Op 16-5-2011 8:49, David Henningsson schreef:

On 2011-05-14 17:46, Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:

Traditionally, UNIX systems were supporting multiseat desktop sessions
(i.e. multiple keyboards, video cards, monitors attached to one PC).

According to:

http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode

What is wrong with system mode?

Or with other words: if you run it that way on your desktop,
then you are doing it the wrong way.


What is the correct way to use PulseAudio with multiseat systems?


Assuming there is also one sound card per seat, you should run one 
PulseAudio per seat, and as the user currently logged in to that seat. 
Exactly how to do that, i e set up access to the right sound card for 
the logged in user (with ConsoleKit etc) is beyond my knowledge though.


Currently i use a script to set the users' default sink according the 
display he is on, because you do not know which user is logged in on 
which display.

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?

2011-05-15 Thread David Henningsson

On 2011-05-14 17:46, Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:

Traditionally, UNIX systems were supporting multiseat desktop sessions
(i.e. multiple keyboards, video cards, monitors attached to one PC).

According to:

http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode

What is wrong with system mode?

Or with other words: if you run it that way on your desktop,
then you are doing it the wrong way.


What is the correct way to use PulseAudio with multiseat systems?


Assuming there is also one sound card per seat, you should run one 
PulseAudio per seat, and as the user currently logged in to that seat. 
Exactly how to do that, i e set up access to the right sound card for 
the logged in user (with ConsoleKit etc) is beyond my knowledge though.


--
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http://launchpad.net/~diwic
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[pulseaudio-discuss] multiseat and PulseAudio?

2011-05-14 Thread Tomasz Chmielewski
Traditionally, UNIX systems were supporting multiseat desktop sessions 
(i.e. multiple keyboards, video cards, monitors attached to one PC).


According to:

http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode

What is wrong with system mode?

Or with other words: if you run it that way on your desktop,
then you are doing it the wrong way.


What is the correct way to use PulseAudio with multiseat systems?


--
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http://wpkg.org
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio -system-wide daemon

2008-08-04 Thread Muylle Bart

>
> The sound starts always on the user he's first start. example, user 3 
> log first on and then user 2 .  The sound goes to the output describe 
> for user 3 also for user 2 the sound goes to speakers 3. When I restart 
> the computer en first log user 2 in and then user 3 , the sound goes to 
> speaker 2 also for user 3 -> speaker 2.
>
> When I changed with the aplet, it works fine. but on restart it's 
> changed to the user that have first log-in.
>
>
>   


Can I change the output in console ?   I can change it in gnome by the 
aplet (padevchooser). I think it must be possible in console.
When I can change the output in console, I can make a script to 
automatic run at logon in gnome and me problem is solved.

I have see in the manual off padevchooser that you can't give options to 
the aplet. Is there another tool to select the default sink ?

Bart

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio -system-wide daemon

2008-08-03 Thread Muylle Bart
Michal Sawicz schreef:
> Dnia 2008-07-30, śro o godzinie 15:54 +0200, Lennart Poettering pisze:
>   
>> I am not sure if the system wide daemon is a good choice here.
>> 
>
> I wanted to tell him the same thing, but refrained from it... 'Cause on
> the other hand it seems to be the only way - having all the users able
> to send audio to all the cards.
I think also that's the only way, when you start pulseaudio 4 times it 
will be verry strange ?

>  If the users don't, for example, use the
> same seats every time, it will be difficult to get the correct card to
> send to. On the other hand the system wide approach would let the users
> 'spam' each other's speakers... 
Yeah but that's not a problem, they can do something like this but they 
don't.  The only thing that I will have is at start the right output to 
the right screen. ( user1 will always be to screen 1, user2 to screen2 ...)

> A per-user daemon would mean that the
> cards would be blocked whenever one of the users use it, no? This way it
> would be possible for one user to block all the cards... And yeah, I
> don't have a clear idea on how to do it, either.
>   
When I try this whit per-user daemon, how can I do this ?


I found this on google :

http://blog.chris.tylers.info/index.php?/archives/128-Multiseat-Sound.html

http://dailypackage.fedorabook.com/index.php?/archives/97-Artsy-Tuesday-Pulseaudio-Next-generation-audio-server.html

That's also with the system-wide daemon, but I don't know how can I 
solve the other problem :



The sound starts always on the user he's first start. example, user 3 
log first on and then user 2 .  The sound goes to the output describe 
for user 3 also for user 2 the sound goes to speakers 3. When I restart 
the computer en first log user 2 in and then user 3 , the sound goes to 
speaker 2 also for user 3 -> speaker 2.

When I changed with the aplet, it works fine. but on restart it's 
changed to the user that have first log-in.



Gtrz,

Bart


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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio

2008-07-30 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 30.07.08 11:09, Jeremy Nickurak ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 07:01:14PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > There is no 1:1 replacement for padevchooser. Enable
> > module-zeroconf-discover and then use pavucontrol to switch between
> > devices.
> 
> Harder to get into a panel for quick access. Is there a command-line 
> version of pavucontrol that could be used via scripts/launchers?

You can use pactl and pacmd.

padevchooser is not unfixable. It's just that someone should sit down
and get rid of the braindamage that is in there. Patches welcome.

Lennart

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio

2008-07-30 Thread Jeremy Nickurak
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 07:01:14PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> There is no 1:1 replacement for padevchooser. Enable
> module-zeroconf-discover and then use pavucontrol to switch between
> devices.

Harder to get into a panel for quick access. Is there a command-line 
version of pavucontrol that could be used via scripts/launchers?

-- 
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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio

2008-07-30 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 30.07.08 10:21, Jeremy Nickurak ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 03:54:48PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > I have installed pulseaudio with a system-wide deamon. I setup the 
> > > device chooser , I have edit the .pulse/default-sink for the default 
> > 
> > Don't use the device chooser. It's obsolete.
> 
> Whuh oh, really? I use it all the time. What's replaced it? (I have a 
> laptop with internal speakers, but when in my office I've got a usb 
> sound system I want it outputting to instead, so I use padevchooser to 
> tell it which hal-discovered device to use at what time...)

padevchooser relies on zeroconf for selecting devices. this is
lame. It also has all kind of bugs.

There is no 1:1 replacement for padevchooser. Enable
module-zeroconf-discover and then use pavucontrol to switch between
devices.

Lennart

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio

2008-07-30 Thread Jeremy Nickurak
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 03:54:48PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > I have installed pulseaudio with a system-wide deamon. I setup the 
> > device chooser , I have edit the .pulse/default-sink for the default 
> 
> Don't use the device chooser. It's obsolete.

Whuh oh, really? I use it all the time. What's replaced it? (I have a 
laptop with internal speakers, but when in my office I've got a usb 
sound system I want it outputting to instead, so I use padevchooser to 
tell it which hal-discovered device to use at what time...)

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio

2008-07-30 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 30.07.08 16:41, Michal Sawicz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> Dnia 2008-07-30, śro o godzinie 15:54 +0200, Lennart Poettering pisze:
> > I am not sure if the system wide daemon is a good choice here.
> 
> I wanted to tell him the same thing, but refrained from it... 'Cause on
> the other hand it seems to be the only way - having all the users able
> to send audio to all the cards. If the users don't, for example, use the
> same seats every time, it will be difficult to get the correct card to
> send to. On the other hand the system wide approach would let the users
> 'spam' each other's speakers... A per-user daemon would mean that the
> cards would be blocked whenever one of the users use it, no? This way it
> would be possible for one user to block all the cards... And yeah, I
> don't have a clear idea on how to do it, either.

In the long run ConsoleKit will make available the information which
sound card belongs to which seat.

It shouldn't be too difficult to script something that makes sure that
the right device is used for the right seat. Wit a bit of udev + shell
+ pactl you should be able to get something done that should work.

If all users can access each other's sound devices I'd consider this a
big security hole.

Please note that system mode is explicitly not intended to be used in
setups like this one. If multiple local uses log in, run a PA instance
for each user. The system mode is for embedded cases, for networked
cases. But multi-seat doesn't qualify as neither.

> > > I have installed pulseaudio with a system-wide deamon. I setup the 
> > > device chooser , I have edit the .pulse/default-sink for the
> > default 
> > 
> > Don't use the device chooser. It's obsolete.
> 
> You mean padevchooser?

Yes. That's what I meant.

Lennart

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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio

2008-07-30 Thread Michal Sawicz
Dnia 2008-07-30, śro o godzinie 15:54 +0200, Lennart Poettering pisze:
> I am not sure if the system wide daemon is a good choice here.

I wanted to tell him the same thing, but refrained from it... 'Cause on
the other hand it seems to be the only way - having all the users able
to send audio to all the cards. If the users don't, for example, use the
same seats every time, it will be difficult to get the correct card to
send to. On the other hand the system wide approach would let the users
'spam' each other's speakers... A per-user daemon would mean that the
cards would be blocked whenever one of the users use it, no? This way it
would be possible for one user to block all the cards... And yeah, I
don't have a clear idea on how to do it, either.

> > I have installed pulseaudio with a system-wide deamon. I setup the 
> > device chooser , I have edit the .pulse/default-sink for the
> default 
> 
> Don't use the device chooser. It's obsolete.

You mean padevchooser?

-- 
Michal Sawicz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio

2008-07-30 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Wed, 30.07.08 10:37, Muylle Bart ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I try to make my multiseatcomputer 4 seats working with sound. But I 
> don't have any result, the sound comes always out of the same output on 
> every screen. ( on the system I have 1 hardware soundcard on the 
> mainboard and 3 usb sound-cards)

I am not sure if the system wide daemon is a good choice here.

Also note that you cannot the HAL module, because it will listen for
ACL changes which you don't really want to have here.

> 
> I have installed pulseaudio with a system-wide deamon. I setup the 
> device chooser , I have edit the .pulse/default-sink for the default 

Don't use the device chooser. It's obsolete.

> output, but it stil doesn't work.
> I have also done the perfect setup, but the flashplayer crash not 
> sometime, but always with the flashplayer 10 beta, with the version 9 it 
> works, but not on the right sound-output.
> 
> What did I wron ?  When you need logs or anything say it.
> 
> My linux distro is ubuntu hardy.

I never tried to set something like this up, so I don't really now how
to do this best. I assume PA needs a bit of fixing here and there to
make this work properly. Patches are always welcome... All I can tell
you is how *not* to do it ;-)

Lennart

-- 
Lennart PoetteringRed Hat, Inc.
lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553
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[pulseaudio-discuss] Multiseat and pulseaudio

2008-07-30 Thread Muylle Bart
Hello,

I try to make my multiseatcomputer 4 seats working with sound. But I 
don't have any result, the sound comes always out of the same output on 
every screen. ( on the system I have 1 hardware soundcard on the 
mainboard and 3 usb sound-cards)

I have installed pulseaudio with a system-wide deamon. I setup the 
device chooser , I have edit the .pulse/default-sink for the default 
output, but it stil doesn't work.
I have also done the perfect setup, but the flashplayer crash not 
sometime, but always with the flashplayer 10 beta, with the version 9 it 
works, but not on the right sound-output.

What did I wron ?  When you need logs or anything say it.

My linux distro is ubuntu hardy.


Tank you for any help.

Muylle Bart
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