Re: Pylons Logo Design
On Jun 1, 1:43 pm, Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:21:12AM -0400, Dan wrote: This is all highly opinionated, but here are some of my suggestions. I think you should consider changing domain names. I don't think the name Pylons is bad, just combined with the domain pylonshq.com it just doesn't stick. I'd suggest using pylonsframework.org for the following reasons: .org - Eludes to an open source/non-profit. If Pylons is open source/non-profit I think its a feature that you should mention to your visitors... I didn't see licensing information anywhere on the homepage? pylonsframework - Eludes to Pylons being a framework right in the domain. I'd click on a URL for pylonsframework.org before pylonshq.com. I second every single word of the above statement. pylonshq.com is really a weird URL. IMHO djangoproject.com suffers from similar problems like pylonshq.com. They are .com(mercial) and they are a project instead of a creator of some software. Everything with project sounds like new-age jargon for a music band. pylonsproject.org is it. Or maybe pylons-framework.org. pylons-framework.org isn't bad -- it's easier to read with the dash, IMO, but is a bit long to type. With pylonshq, it's less to type, but the 's' and 'h' smooshed together at the end hint at an sh sound. The eye has to stop on it while you figure out that it really means pylons-hq. pylons-hq.org would be good. And, as KyleJ points out, with mod_rewrite's help, search engines will very quickly pick up on a new url. Incidentally, I notice that Mason uses the same url pattern as pylons currently does: http://www.masonhq.com/ . Their name doesn't end in an 's' though, so it's a bit easier for the eye to quickly decipher. Not sure why they use the .com though. ---John --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 09:57 +0100, James Gardner wrote: Ben and I have started thinking again about what really makes Pylons different from other web frameworks and how we can best highlight those differences in the Pylons marketing to help attract people to the community and see Pylons gain further recognition and adoption. I'd just like to pipe up with my two cents. 1) I like the current logo, especially as it's used in the powered by image. 2) As far as the project name goes, Pylons may not be wonderful, but it's certainly no worse than TurboGears or Ruby on Rails. 3) As far as the URL, pylonshq.org isn't wonderful, but at least it's short, and frankly I doubt it matters. People don't type URLs, they click links. No one cares. I would be tempted to get all of pylonshq.com/org and pylons-hq.com/org just to help people who do typo them in and aren't 100% certain of the spelling. Overall, I think the key thing to remember here is that the target audience is developers and I don't think these are going to be the primary concerns for a developer visiting the site for the first time. Here's a few things I *do* think are important: 1) Overall finish. I know this is part of what this thread is about, but I think focusing too much on the details (logo, URL, etc) and ignoring the larger picture is a mistake. The site needs to look polished and that involves a bigger vision. I'd prioritize it roughly as: organization, color schemes, logo. The biggest problem with the current site revolves around the first two items. Honestly the color scheme isn't bad (mochikit.com uses similar colors to good effect), but it needs better organization to make it appear more friendly to first-time visitors (the three-box navigation mochikit and 1000 other sites present may be a bit overused, but frankly that's because it's so effective). 2) Fast information. RoR (and then TG) showed the power of the screencast. People want a quick overview of how things are done in a framework. Screencasts turned out to be excellent for this purpose. 3) Completeness. Right now there are out-of-date examples, off-site links related to core features, examples that openly question whether they are doing it right, etc. Documentation is important and new visitors are going to at least peruse it to see if it looks adequate to stake their projects on. Even if we can't have complete docs, we need to at least fix what's there. 4) References. Know of a large/cool/hip site that uses Pylons? Get it on the front page. A big concern for developers is whether or not a framework can handle their site without tons of hardware and hair-pulling (although somehow RoR seems to transcend that requirement). Django at least gets 3 and 4 dead on, and this is arguably the root of much of that project's success. RoR gets 1,2 and 4 right (even if 4 is badly misleading). TG gets 1 mostly right, 2 mostly right, fakes 3 and is catching up on 4. Pylons doesn't get any right, but at least fakes 3 almost as good as TG. I'm not complaining about the current state (well, aside from docs), but if there's going to be a big push to address Pylon's marketing, I think these are far more important than a logo. Cliff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On Jun 27, 6:23 pm, Cliff Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if there's going to be a big push to address Pylon's marketing, I think these are far more important than a logo. Definitely. While the current look and feel might not be industry- best, it's well above the credibility threshold for a software project. If anyone decides against using Pylons it won't be because they didn't like the color of the website or the typeface of the logo, or thought the project was done by an 8 year old or abandoned years ago. I'd agree docs and presentation/organization are the key factors for growth at this point. Also things like weblogs; for example gathering pylons blogs or tagged posts like django's community page/feed does, things like that. Is there an obvious choice for a starter app using the default trinity(pylons/sa/mako)? Anyone have a petshop already written (ha!)? Various look and feel approaches can be applied in iterations on top of a site that does these things well... so that topic need not be abandoned, but shouldn't soak up all the bandwidth IMHO. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
hi there I'm guessing the probable reason that the pylons framework was so named in the first place is because the actual pylons codes' chief role is to supply the 'wires' between various mvc components. in light of this, perhaps the logo should concentrate more on the concept of wiring and grids rather than pylons themselves? some the the graph theory type representations with model, view and control as the nodes may prove inspirational albeit generally too fiddly Its kind of unfortunate that the recycle logo already exists since i feel this would be ideal to represent pylons (see http://www.istockphoto.com/imageindex/581/0/581051/Green_Recycle_Symbol.html), Some reasons the recycle logo would be good: o represents triad of model, view, control o represents the connections between three components o also looks kind of like three snakes with it being green o 'environmental' connotations - instead of connotations of ugly pylons/power stations of course we can't use the recycle logo but perhaps someone can build upon it? i.e. refashioning the arrows into stylised snakes similar to the blue/yellow python logo or perhaps including simple representations of the mvc components at the arrow heads brendan On 6/26/07, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm very new to Pylons. When I first heard the name, the very first thought that popped into my head was a weird one. Remember Land of the Lost? :) Yup. The magical and mysterious Pylons. Here's a picture of one: http://www.70slivekidvid.com/land/grumppylon.jpg . The T-Rex give the picture some scale. ;) So, I headed over to pylonshq, and was immediately struck by the image of a more modern pylon used as a graphic for the site. The first thing I thought was something like, Oh my, no. Why?. Electrical towers are these dirty, pointy, dangerous metal things that mar otherwise lovely natural landscapes. Folks have been electrocuted on them. On more than one occasion, Godzilla got caught in some wires strung between a pair of them. Classic Pylons, OTOH, might give an impression of being a gateway. A sturdy solid entranceway. Python's gateway to web development maybe -- dunno. They are also usually shown as being golden colored, and the gold color would go nicely with the current green Pylons website theme. I'm certainly no graphic artist, but here's a 5-minute graphic of the beginnings of the sort of logo I'd expect to see for Pylons: http://www.milliwatt-software.com/jmg/temp/pylons_logo-like_idea.png. If you're particularly creative, you could even put a little Sleestak on patrol between the two pylons. :) ---John (Note: 2nd time composing and posting this message. Not sure what happened to the first one.) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Regarding domain names and rank in search engines: all the major search engines (including Google) understand what a 301 redirect is and will carry page rank over to the domain directed to via a 301. I don't know what webserver is in use on pylonshq, but using Apache with the URL rewrite engine, you can setup a 301 redirect easily, even preserving the trailing URL. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Hi, I'm very new to Pylons. When I first heard the name, the very first thought that popped into my head was a weird one. Remember Land of the Lost? :) Yup. The magical and mysterious Pylons. Here's a picture of one: http://www.70slivekidvid.com/land/grumppylon.jpg . The T-Rex give the picture some scale. ;) So, I headed over to pylonshq, and was immediately struck by the image of a more modern pylon used as a graphic for the site. The first thing I thought was something like, Oh my, no. Why?. Electrical towers are these dirty, pointy, dangerous metal things that mar otherwise lovely natural landscapes. Folks have been electrocuted on them. On more than one occasion, Godzilla got caught in some wires strung between a pair of them. Classic Pylons, OTOH, might give an impression of being a gateway. A sturdy solid entranceway. Python's gateway to web development maybe -- dunno. They are also usually shown as being golden colored, and the gold color would go nicely with the current green Pylons website theme. I'm certainly no graphic artist, but here's a 5-minute graphic of the beginnings of the sort of logo I'd expect to see for Pylons: http://www.milliwatt-software.com/jmg/temp/pylons_logo-like_idea.png. If you're particularly creative, you could even put a little Sleestak on patrol between the two pylons. :) ---John (Note: 2nd time composing and posting this message. Not sure what happened to the first one.) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
on pylons logo design: i see a pylon as the pylon on a bridge like the great belt bridge in denmark if I were to draw it it would be like this a bridge (golden gate or great belt bridge) with pylons at either end and then the word pylons written instead of the the wire-framework with a big P and S and the the other letters getting smaller as they follow the wire framework. pylons would then be part of the bridge making x easily accessible to y substitute x and y with something like python and web-programming or the like On Jun 5, 10:38 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed (and, yeah, the source for that is a vector image). Since a pylon's very angular and has a fairly distinct profile, I think it lends itself well to an abstract, line-art vector image. If you get the right perspective, it can feel like a very big, proud and imposing object. And at smaller sizes it can be reduced to something simpler without much trouble. On Jun 5, 4:23 pm, Neil Blakey-Milner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For a more realistic look, something like this might do the trick: http://www.ingeniousmonk.com/pylon2.png I think a simple abstract electricity pylon could work well. It should be simple to create in a vector graphic (no point doing it if you aren't going to make it a vector graphic), it would work well in a single colour (for t-shirts, c.), would be easy to scale, would be easy to incorporate into various shape holes (ie, a vertical with name below, or horizontal with name to the side, or square with the name on the bottom, or whatever), would be easy to recognise (and not require an object-by-object explanation), would stand the test of time better, and would more easily allow for evolutionary changes than something that involves multiple objects. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milnerhttp://nxsy.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Hi there, Apologies for this somewhat random posting but... On Jun 4, 10:02 am, James Gardner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My view is that we shouldn't change domain names unless we can getpylons.orgor pylons.com, both of which I will continue to investigate. ...I'm afraid you won't get pylons.org as it belongs to me and is for the Pylon Appreciation Society. Sorry, but thought that it might help just to let you know. Best wishes! Flash Wilson Bristow --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Have a contest. Look at MilWorm's contest: http://milw0rm.com/contest.php -r --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On 6/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For a more realistic look, something like this might do the trick: http://www.ingeniousmonk.com/pylon2.png I think a simple abstract electricity pylon could work well. It should be simple to create in a vector graphic (no point doing it if you aren't going to make it a vector graphic), it would work well in a single colour (for t-shirts, c.), would be easy to scale, would be easy to incorporate into various shape holes (ie, a vertical with name below, or horizontal with name to the side, or square with the name on the bottom, or whatever), would be easy to recognise (and not require an object-by-object explanation), would stand the test of time better, and would more easily allow for evolutionary changes than something that involves multiple objects. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner http://nxsy.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Agreed (and, yeah, the source for that is a vector image). Since a pylon's very angular and has a fairly distinct profile, I think it lends itself well to an abstract, line-art vector image. If you get the right perspective, it can feel like a very big, proud and imposing object. And at smaller sizes it can be reduced to something simpler without much trouble. On Jun 5, 4:23 pm, Neil Blakey-Milner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For a more realistic look, something like this might do the trick: http://www.ingeniousmonk.com/pylon2.png I think a simple abstract electricity pylon could work well. It should be simple to create in a vector graphic (no point doing it if you aren't going to make it a vector graphic), it would work well in a single colour (for t-shirts, c.), would be easy to scale, would be easy to incorporate into various shape holes (ie, a vertical with name below, or horizontal with name to the side, or square with the name on the bottom, or whatever), would be easy to recognise (and not require an object-by-object explanation), would stand the test of time better, and would more easily allow for evolutionary changes than something that involves multiple objects. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milnerhttp://nxsy.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Hi there, I know the trend is to ask a professional to handle this, but why not begin with a logo contest to collect ideas ? (In fact, I had fun with vector graphics and I'm looking for a pretext to post my link here... Here it is : http://dom.eav.free.fr/pylons-logo/pylons.html ) Pretty basic for now, but I put the svg on the page and it can be enhanced by anyone. dom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed (and, yeah, the source for that is a vector image). Since a pylon's very angular and has a fairly distinct profile, I think it lends itself well to an abstract, line-art vector image. If you get the right perspective, it can feel like a very big, proud and imposing object. And at smaller sizes it can be reduced to something simpler without much trouble. On Jun 5, 4:23 pm, Neil Blakey-Milner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For a more realistic look, something like this might do the trick: http://www.ingeniousmonk.com/pylon2.png I think a simple abstract electricity pylon could work well. It should be simple to create in a vector graphic (no point doing it if you aren't going to make it a vector graphic), it would work well in a single colour (for t-shirts, c.), would be easy to scale, would be easy to incorporate into various shape holes (ie, a vertical with name below, or horizontal with name to the side, or square with the name on the bottom, or whatever), would be easy to recognise (and not require an object-by-object explanation), would stand the test of time better, and would more easily allow for evolutionary changes than something that involves multiple objects. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milnerhttp://nxsy.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
That's a darn good start, I think. Simple and iconic. I made a rough version with some perspective added to see how it might look: http://www.ingeniousmonk.com/pylon3.png Dominique Eav wrote: Hi there, I know the trend is to ask a professional to handle this, but why not begin with a logo contest to collect ideas ? (In fact, I had fun with vector graphics and I'm looking for a pretext to post my link here... Here it is : http://dom.eav.free.fr/pylons-logo/pylons.html ) Pretty basic for now, but I put the svg on the page and it can be enhanced by anyone. dom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed (and, yeah, the source for that is a vector image). Since a pylon's very angular and has a fairly distinct profile, I think it lends itself well to an abstract, line-art vector image. If you get the right perspective, it can feel like a very big, proud and imposing object. And at smaller sizes it can be reduced to something simpler without much trouble. On Jun 5, 4:23 pm, Neil Blakey-Milner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For a more realistic look, something like this might do the trick: http://www.ingeniousmonk.com/pylon2.png I think a simple abstract electricity pylon could work well. It should be simple to create in a vector graphic (no point doing it if you aren't going to make it a vector graphic), it would work well in a single colour (for t-shirts, c.), would be easy to scale, would be easy to incorporate into various shape holes (ie, a vertical with name below, or horizontal with name to the side, or square with the name on the bottom, or whatever), would be easy to recognise (and not require an object-by-object explanation), would stand the test of time better, and would more easily allow for evolutionary changes than something that involves multiple objects. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milnerhttp://nxsy.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Just a small tip: I'm looking at the homepage right now with Firefox, and IMHO the indentation of the first line in the pullquote looks really ugly. Pylons is a lightweight web framework emphasizing flexibility and rapid development. |Download!| Maybe the download button should be put in there. |Download!|Pylons is a lightweight web framework emphasizing flexibility and rapid development. Best, Edin On 6/1/07, James Gardner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any recommendations will be much appreciated and after we've discussed the options here on the list we'll commission the person whose work best reflects Pylons. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Hi all, Dan wrote: I think you should consider changing domain names. I don't think the name Pylons is bad, just combined with the domain pylonshq.com it just doesn't stick. I'd suggest using pylonsframework.org for the following reasons: .org - Eludes to an open source/non-profit. If Pylons is open source/non-profit I think its a feature that you should mention to your visitors... I didn't see licensing information anywhere on the homepage? pylonsframework - Eludes to Pylons being a framework right in the domain. I'd click on a URL for pylonsframework.org before pylonshq.com. My view is that we shouldn't change domain names unless we can get pylons.org or pylons.com, both of which I will continue to investigate. There is no point in changing domains because it will simply cause problems with existing links. Even though Ben has registered pylonshq.org I don't think we should change for this same reason. Also I know tech people like .org but lots of business people think .org is what you get when you can't get .com. I know it is ridiculous but I have an easier time selling Pylons as a attentional product when it is hosted a .com address compared with a .org so I'm keen to keep it that way if possible. I agree with Ben that we should add some sitemap data and mention Headquarters somewhere, people often ask what the HQ stands for. In general, the things that brought me to Pylons was the 1) speed and libraries of Python and 2) MVC development. Both are not even mentioned on the homepage. It should be in the first paragraph. WSGI seems important, even if I didn't know why, but not a reason I'd choose Pylons over another framework. Its not something that I would say in the first paragraph. I'd say that most people care about two things: speed (both development time and application performance) and stability. These two key points should be the focus of the introduction, to grab the visitors attention. I do think Pylons is flexible, which can be a feature, but it can also be a hindrance... especially for newbies. Thats tricky. I hate to mention the word, but 'screencasts' is almost a standard. It wouldn't hurt if someone could put one together. I hope that I'm not coming off as being overly critical. Pylons is a great framework. Keep up the good work! Really appreciate the comments, very helpful! Just thinking about the possibility of an Egyptian theme for the logo but temple Pylons don't look visually too exciting either. I'm open to the idea of changing the name of the project actually but only if people have very compelling alternatives and the whole community gets totally behind the idea. By the way I've added some notes about the discussion to this page: http://docs.pythonweb.org/display/pylonscommunity/Pylons+Logo If anyone wants to get started on some sample text for any of the website pages feel free to create a page off the one above and make a start! We can always move pages around to a more appropriate location later if necessary. Cheers, James --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On 03/06/2007, at 4:55 AM, Mike Orr wrote: Why is it called Pylons anyway? I thought a pylon was a large metal beam (girder), so as a building block it made sense. But dictionary.com says it means a tower. Here are all the definitions, which include some visual ideas we haven't tried. Ancient Egyptian theme, anyone? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pylon 1.a marking post or tower for guiding aviators, frequently used in races. 2.a relatively tall structure at the side of a gate, bridge, or avenue, marking an entrance or approach. 3.a monumental tower forming the entrance to an ancient Egyptian temple, consisting either of a pair of tall quadrilateral masonry masses with sloping sides and a doorway between them or of one such mass pierced with a doorway. 4.a steel tower or mast carrying high-tension lines, telephone wires, or other cables and lines. 5.Aeronautics. a finlike device used to attach engines, auxiliary fuel tanks, bombs, etc., to an aircraft wing or fuselage. [Origin: 1840-50; Gk pyln gateway, gate tower] To weigh in for a second, I think the original choice of an electricity pylon was actually very clever because of the dual implications of power and delivery (of electrons). Taken out of that context, it's harder to connect the word 'pylons' with a web services toolkit. Maybe it's not thinking outside the box terribly much, but I can envisage something much like the current logo: same perspective, but cartoonized, and with the cables replaced with strings of 0's and 1's. Toby. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
I've added wiki pages to discuss the web site design, Pylons project name, and pylonshq.com domain name. http://docs.pythonweb.org/display/pylonscommunity/Home -- Mike Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On 6/2/07, Mike Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is it called Pylons anyway? I thought a pylon was a large metal beam (girder), so as a building block it made sense. Maybe Ben is a Starcraft fan. ;-) More seriously, I actually wonder in which direction *Ben* sees Pylons heading on this promotion/marketing/... level. So far, I've seen only comments of him to our suggestions but I would be interested in hearing what he thinks about it himself. - Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On Jun 2, 2007, at 11:47 AM, wongobongo wrote: The problem your designer will run into is the fact the electrical pylons are not the most exciting thing in the world and you'll want something exciting. They're not conventionally beautiful; sonnets are not written about pylons. Pylons are quite mundane, they look different in different countries, they buzz if you get too close to them and visually they are painfully reticulated. A logo doesn't have to be exciting. Sure an electricity Pylon doesn't sound very interesting at first, but I'd agree with others that it has potential. As somebody pointed out it's a sturdy provider/ deliverer of power (electrons). All this and it's got to look good enough to go on a shirt and have someone cough up money for it. transitory from IRC sketched this earlier: http://www.ingeniousmonk.com/pylon.png Not quite a ready to go logo but an interesting design -- not a mundane Pylon =] -- Philip Jenvey --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On Jun 2, 2007, at 11:55 AM, Mike Orr wrote: Why is it called Pylons anyway? I thought a pylon was a large metal beam (girder), so as a building block it made sense. But dictionary.com says it means a tower. Here are all the definitions, which include some visual ideas we haven't tried. Ancient Egyptian theme, anyone? I'm open to taking a look at an Egyptian theme, especially if it results in a cooler logo. :) - Ben --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 03:15:19PM -0700, Ben Bangert wrote: On Jun 1, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Mike Orr wrote: The introduction can be improved, certainly. I wasn't here when Pylons was started or the website was created, but my sense is that Pylons has evolved since then. Its first adherents were looking for *any* framework that was Paste-ified (and thus WSGI-ified) from the ground up, and Pylons was it. Now we're getting more Pythoneers who want something more modular than Turbogears, non-Pythoneers who want something like Rails, newbies who want something easy to code, scalable, performant, and stable. The trick is to address all these audiences. If we focus totally on newbies, that leaves everybody else cold. Plus we need to focus on building 1.0 right now, not on bringing in hordes of newbies Because... We definitely need new copy for the website introduction and overview. Any volunteers? I'm currently extending my concepts of pylons article into a longer (actually it looks like it's getting longer than I expected) introduction. It's still beta but I tried to sum up the advantages and fun features about Pylons in http://workaround.org/pylons/beginning-pylons.html#what-makes-pylons-stand-out-from-other-frameworks Perhaps some of these points should be mentioned in the introductory paragraph on the hq site. At least those are the points that make using Pylons fun for me. Christoph --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
In the graphic design business, logos are known as business identities. They are pretty important, companies spend a fortune on them and there are a whole bunch of different methodologies used to get a 'good' identity. That being said, it really is more of an art and it would be difficult to get a group of designers to agree on the best approach to logo discovery. This video of Paula Scher may be illuminating http://www.hillmancurtis.com/hc_web/film_video/source/scher.php If your designer doesn't give you a pad-talk like Paula, you're getting short changed. joke / For the logos that I've helped create, I focused on the way it was intended to be used. In business communication, you want the logo to be recognizable despite being presented in different ways. For example, on a fax, the logo should be recognizable, so it should be created using a lot of positive and negative space with few gradients because gradients look like crap on faxes. This requirement will limit the number of colours the designer can use and in my experience, the fewer colours the better. If you will never be faxed, this will be less important. You generally want the logo to be able to drop to 16x16 or 32x32 pixels and still be recognizable if it is to be used on software. Once again too much detail and you will run into problems. A fist with two pylons and lines will shrink to a grey blob. There is a designer trick where you can use a subset of your logo for the favicon, but the portion needs to be pretty strong. For example, if your logo is a green tree with one red leaf then you can put the one red leaf in the favicon and visitors will 'get it' that your brand is the one red leaf. You don't have to show the tree. You need a clever designer to do this; the $150 per logo guys will not give you this kind of work. The problem your designer will run into is the fact the electrical pylons are not the most exciting thing in the world and you'll want something exciting. They're not conventionally beautiful; sonnets are not written about pylons. Pylons are quite mundane, they look different in different countries, they buzz if you get too close to them and visually they are painfully reticulated. All this and it's got to look good enough to go on a shirt and have someone cough up money for it. This blog has some good before after images of logos from major companies. http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/ I'd stay away from swooshes - done to death. K On Jun 1, 3:15 pm, Ben Bangert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 1, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Mike Orr wrote: Regarding the logo, I'm more concerned about the theme than the details. What guidelines are we going to give the designer? Just make a logo? Or make a logo containing an electrical tower? It's really up to us to choose our mascot, not leave it to the logo designer, otherwise he may go off totallyon a tangent. Though it's worth asking him if he has some different ideas. I like the current yin-yang snakes in the Python logo but I didn't like some of the previous logos and refused to wear T-shirts that had them. Quixote has some windmill logos but what's so Quixote about them? Cheers, Ben --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Why is it called Pylons anyway? I thought a pylon was a large metal beam (girder), so as a building block it made sense. But dictionary.com says it means a tower. Here are all the definitions, which include some visual ideas we haven't tried. Ancient Egyptian theme, anyone? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pylon 1. a marking post or tower for guiding aviators, frequently used in races. 2. a relatively tall structure at the side of a gate, bridge, or avenue, marking an entrance or approach. 3. a monumental tower forming the entrance to an ancient Egyptian temple, consisting either of a pair of tall quadrilateral masonry masses with sloping sides and a doorway between them or of one such mass pierced with a doorway. 4. a steel tower or mast carrying high-tension lines, telephone wires, or other cables and lines. 5. Aeronautics. a finlike device used to attach engines, auxiliary fuel tanks, bombs, etc., to an aircraft wing or fuselage. [Origin: 1840-50; Gk pyln gateway, gate tower] -- Mike Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Hi, James... On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 09:57:31AM +0100, James Gardner wrote: Ben and I have started thinking again about what really makes Pylons different from other web frameworks and how we can best highlight those differences in the Pylons marketing to help attract people to the community and see Pylons gain further recognition and adoption. As part of the process we'd like to hire a professional designer to create a new and striking logo for Pylons but we don't know of anyone suitable ourselves so I'd like to send out a challenge: Does anyone on the list know a top notch logo designer who they can recommend and who might be interested in helping us design a fresh Pylons logo? Any recommendations will be much appreciated and after we've discussed the options here on the list we'll commission the person whose work best reflects Pylons. I'm not sure if you followed the discussion we had on IRC about logos. Yannick Gingras pointed out that http://www.everaldo.com/ is supporting open-source projects. Might be worth a try. The artwork doesn't look ugly. Christoph --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 11:43:00AM +0100, James Gardner wrote: I didn't see the discussion actually but I've just had a look at the logs. Actually I like the style of the everaldo icons and logos, do you know if they are very costly? From IRC (Yannick is not subscribed here): 12:57 YGingras Signum: but for the record, they can cost 1k$ but they do support free software. The best think to do is to ask them what they are willing to do within your budget 12:59 YGingras Signum: you can use the contact form on http://www.yellowicon.com/ 13:01 YGingras Signum: but I have other contacts from designers who made graphics for Ubuntu that will charge much less if price is an issue Consider joining us at #pylons on irc.freenode.net. :) Cheers Christoph --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Hi Christoph, I didn't see the discussion actually but I've just had a look at the logs. Actually I like the style of the everaldo icons and logos, do you know if they are very costly? Cheers, James Christoph Haas wrote: Hi, James... On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 09:57:31AM +0100, James Gardner wrote: Ben and I have started thinking again about what really makes Pylons different from other web frameworks and how we can best highlight those differences in the Pylons marketing to help attract people to the community and see Pylons gain further recognition and adoption. As part of the process we'd like to hire a professional designer to create a new and striking logo for Pylons but we don't know of anyone suitable ourselves so I'd like to send out a challenge: Does anyone on the list know a top notch logo designer who they can recommend and who might be interested in helping us design a fresh Pylons logo? Any recommendations will be much appreciated and after we've discussed the options here on the list we'll commission the person whose work best reflects Pylons. I'm not sure if you followed the discussion we had on IRC about logos. Yannick Gingras pointed out that http://www.everaldo.com/ is supporting open-source projects. Might be worth a try. The artwork doesn't look ugly. Christoph --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
This is all highly opinionated, but here are some of my suggestions. I think you should consider changing domain names. I don't think the name Pylons is bad, just combined with the domain pylonshq.com it just doesn't stick. I'd suggest using pylonsframework.org for the following reasons: .org - Eludes to an open source/non-profit. If Pylons is open source/non-profit I think its a feature that you should mention to your visitors... I didn't see licensing information anywhere on the homepage? pylonsframework - Eludes to Pylons being a framework right in the domain. I'd click on a URL for pylonsframework.org before pylonshq.com. In general, the things that brought me to Pylons was the 1) speed and libraries of Python and 2) MVC development. Both are not even mentioned on the homepage. It should be in the first paragraph. WSGI seems important, even if I didn't know why, but not a reason I'd choose Pylons over another framework. Its not something that I would say in the first paragraph. I'd say that most people care about two things: speed (both development time and application performance) and stability. These two key points should be the focus of the introduction, to grab the visitors attention. I do think Pylons is flexible, which can be a feature, but it can also be a hindrance... especially for newbies. Thats tricky. I hate to mention the word, but 'screencasts' is almost a standard. It wouldn't hurt if someone could put one together. I hope that I'm not coming off as being overly critical. Pylons is a great framework. Keep up the good work! James Gardner wrote: Dear all, Ben and I have started thinking again about what really makes Pylons different from other web frameworks and how we can best highlight those differences in the Pylons marketing to help attract people to the community and see Pylons gain further recognition and adoption. As part of the process we'd like to hire a professional designer to create a new and striking logo for Pylons but we don't know of anyone suitable ourselves so I'd like to send out a challenge: Does anyone on the list know a top notch logo designer who they can recommend and who might be interested in helping us design a fresh Pylons logo? Any recommendations will be much appreciated and after we've discussed the options here on the list we'll commission the person whose work best reflects Pylons. Cheers, James --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
El vie, 01-06-2007 a las 10:21 -0400, Dan escribió: This is all highly opinionated, but here are some of my suggestions. I think you should consider changing domain names. I don't think the name Pylons is bad, just combined with the domain pylonshq.com it just doesn't stick. I'd suggest using pylonsframework.org for the following reasons: .org - Eludes to an open source/non-profit. If Pylons is open source/non-profit I think its a feature that you should mention to your visitors... I didn't see licensing information anywhere on the homepage? +1 pylonsframework - Eludes to Pylons being a framework right in the domain. I'd click on a URL for pylonsframework.org before pylonshq.com. +1 In general, the things that brought me to Pylons was the 1) speed and libraries of Python and 2) MVC development. Both are not even mentioned on the homepage. It should be in the first paragraph. WSGI seems important, even if I didn't know why, but not a reason I'd choose Pylons over another framework. Its not something that I would say in the first paragraph. I'd say that most people care about two things: speed (both development time and application performance) and stability. These two key points should be the focus of the introduction, to grab the visitors attention. I do think Pylons is flexible, which can be a feature, but it can also be a hindrance... especially for newbies. Thats tricky. Things to mention: - In the python way. - Easy and flexible - WSGI I hate to mention the word, but 'screencasts' is almost a standard. It wouldn't hurt if someone could put one together. +1 My two euro cents ;) Greetings --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On Jun 1, 2007, at 7:21 AM, Dan wrote: I think you should consider changing domain names. I don't think the name Pylons is bad, just combined with the domain pylonshq.com it just doesn't stick. I'd suggest using pylonsframework.org for the following reasons: .org - Eludes to an open source/non-profit. If Pylons is open source/non-profit I think its a feature that you should mention to your visitors... I didn't see licensing information anywhere on the homepage? pylonsframework - Eludes to Pylons being a framework right in the domain. I'd click on a URL for pylonsframework.org before pylonshq.com. I think once we add some additional sitemap data, so that Google automatically displays the full description of our site (Pylons Framework) the domain name won't matter much. At this point it would prolly be very bad to change domain names, since we could end up losing our top Google search result spot for Pylons which we currently have. I hate to mention the word, but 'screencasts' is almost a standard. It wouldn't hurt if someone could put one together. They're coming, and Jon R. actually has some together. Part of the new site redesign would highlight these and bring news of updates to a more visible front. But right now... we need a good logo. Something people would be happy to have on a t-shirt even. :) Cheers, Ben --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
Ben Bangert wrote: On Jun 1, 2007, at 7:21 AM, Dan wrote: I think you should consider changing domain names. I don't think the name Pylons is bad, just combined with the domain pylonshq.com it just doesn't stick. I'd suggest using pylonsframework.org for the following reasons: .org - Eludes to an open source/non-profit. If Pylons is open source/non-profit I think its a feature that you should mention to your visitors... I didn't see licensing information anywhere on the homepage? pylonsframework - Eludes to Pylons being a framework right in the domain. I'd click on a URL for pylonsframework.org before pylonshq.com. I think once we add some additional sitemap data, so that Google automatically displays the full description of our site (Pylons Framework) the domain name won't matter much. At this point it would prolly be very bad to change domain names, since we could end up losing our top Google search result spot for "Pylons" which we currently have. With all due respect, you're thinking more like a computer than a human being. The domain name is important to people and marketing. A descriptive and easy to remember domain is good for people and name recognition/branding. For example, if all you have is a blank page with two URL's, which one is more descriptive? http://pylonshq.com ? or http://pylonsframework.org ? Lets quickly take a closer look: pylonshq.com - '.com' implies a commercial 'for profit' company - 'pylons' could be either a structure for electrical lines or an orange cone... less than 1% of the world population is going to get the 'py' for python - 'hq' could be short for headquarters for some people, but that's just guessing because its not mentioned on the homepage pylonsframework.org - '.org' implies a non-profit organization commonly associated with open source software... definitely adds context - 'pylons' still means nothing to 90% of people, but have potential - 'framework' now that means something to your target audience... web developers! definitely adds context Google places high emphasis on popularity (link backs, what people click on after getting search results) and the competition for the word 'pylons' isn't exactly going to be hard to beat... ever. Google is a pretty smart tool. It will figure out that 95% of people searching for 'pylons' will want the web framework and you'll still be on the top of the rankings. Now the real trick is to get your Pylons to the top of a Google 'framework' search... adding framework to your domain should help placing you higher in that search, but not a replacement for getting people to actually click on it. Thanks for listening. By the way, I think the logo should be something with an orange cone... because its simple. I hate to mention the word, but 'screencasts' is almost a standard. It wouldn't hurt if someone could put one together. They're coming, and Jon R. actually has some together. Part of the new site redesign would highlight these and bring news of updates to a more visible front. But right now... we need a good logo. Something people would be happy to have on a t-shirt even. :) Cheers, Ben --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:21:12AM -0400, Dan wrote: This is all highly opinionated, but here are some of my suggestions. I think you should consider changing domain names. I don't think the name Pylons is bad, just combined with the domain pylonshq.com it just doesn't stick. I'd suggest using pylonsframework.org for the following reasons: .org - Eludes to an open source/non-profit. If Pylons is open source/non-profit I think its a feature that you should mention to your visitors... I didn't see licensing information anywhere on the homepage? pylonsframework - Eludes to Pylons being a framework right in the domain. I'd click on a URL for pylonsframework.org before pylonshq.com. I second every single word of the above statement. pylonshq.com is really a weird URL. IMHO djangoproject.com suffers from similar problems like pylonshq.com. They are .com(mercial) and they are a project instead of a creator of some software. Everything with project sounds like new-age jargon for a music band. pylonsproject.org is it. Or maybe pylons-framework.org. In general, the things that brought me to Pylons was the 1) speed and libraries of Python and 2) MVC development. Both are not even mentioned on the homepage. It should be in the first paragraph. WSGI seems important, even if I didn't know why, but not a reason I'd choose Pylons over another framework. It has taken a while until I understood the meaning of it. And many web developer will hardly care about WSGI. Writting middleware is not a job for a coffee break unless it's your daily business. Its not something that I would say in the first paragraph. I'd say that most people care about two things: speed (both development time and application performance) and stability. These two key points should be the focus of the introduction, to grab the visitors attention. Hmmm, speed and stability. I'd rather outline fun and production-savvyness. paster shell is fun. --reload is fun. The online debugger is fun. And its community - small but great. I do think Pylons is flexible, which can be a feature, but it can also be a hindrance... especially for newbies. Thats tricky. It's very likely not a feature for newbies. I was scared by it. And while I write some more documentation on Pylons I'm increasingly scared the more I see. Well, soon I'll be a guru perhaps and Ben et al will come out with a new version that makes my knowledge deprecated. I hate to mention the word, but 'screencasts' is almost a standard. It wouldn't hurt if someone could put one together. On the Python wiki there are 30 different web frameworks. Even if someone decides that among the 5 frameworks is Pylons then the web site needs to give a lot of information in very little time highlighting the fun features. A screencast would be great (30 minutes are far too much - perhaps 5-10 minutes). I'd even do it myself but I'm unsure whether my spoken english will probably rather drive people away. :) Christoph --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On 6/1/07, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you should consider changing domain names. I don't think the name Pylons is bad, just combined with the domain pylonshq.com it just doesn't stick. I'd suggest using pylonsframework.org for the following reasons: .org - Eludes to an open source/non-profit. If Pylons is open source/non-profit I think its a feature that you should mention to your visitors... I didn't see licensing information anywhere on the homepage? pylonsframework - Eludes to Pylons being a framework right in the domain. I'd click on a URL for pylonsframework.org before pylonshq.com. I like PylonsHQ. What we should do is put Pylons Headquarters at the top of the site as a segue from the domain name to the site. Pylonshq is short and easy to type. I just hate compound words as domain names: footemplate, fooframework, fooinc. pylons-framework.org is much better if we need that framework word. But how many people see a link with the raw URL in it, with nothing else around it? Not the people we're marketing to. Just deep links to mailing-list messages and the like. Pylonshq.org is available. Why don't we snap it up and make it an alias. Then we'll have the ability to make it the primary site later. Would we really lose our Google ranking if we made .com a redirect to .org? Lots of sites have both. In general, the things that brought me to Pylons was the 1) speed and libraries of Python and 2) MVC development. Both are not even mentioned on the homepage. It should be in the first paragraph. WSGI seems important, even if I didn't know why, but not a reason I'd choose Pylons over another framework. Its not something that I would say in the first paragraph. I'd say that most people care about two things: speed (both development time and application performance) and stability. These two key points should be the focus of the introduction, to grab the visitors attention. I do think Pylons is flexible, which can be a feature, but it can also be a hindrance... especially for newbies. Thats tricky. The introduction can be improved, certainly. I wasn't here when Pylons was started or the website was created, but my sense is that Pylons has evolved since then. Its first adherents were looking for *any* framework that was Paste-ified (and thus WSGI-ified) from the ground up, and Pylons was it. Now we're getting more Pythoneers who want something more modular than Turbogears, non-Pythoneers who want something like Rails, newbies who want something easy to code, scalable, performant, and stable. The trick is to address all these audiences. If we focus totally on newbies, that leaves everybody else cold. Plus we need to focus on building 1.0 right now, not on bringing in hordes of newbies Because... - we need all hands on deck - we don't have the resources to train a huge influx of newbies. after we get 1.0 and the documentation finished, then we'll be in a better position - upcoming changes may require changes in applications or cause a period of instability. Not what newbies are thrilled about. - other frameworks frankly do a better job of meeting newbie's needs. Why compete with them in a half-assed way? I'm not saying don't make the site newbie-friendly. I'm just saying let's not neglect the other audiences. You're right that WSGI is no longer important enough to fill 1/3 of the introduction. WSGI has become an infrastructure piece that all frameworks should support or else. Nevertheless, Pylons' use of WSGI as the core rather than an add-on is worth noting, as well as the ease of of plugging multiple applications into the same URL space via Paste or within a Pylons controller should be noted. Pylons combines the very best ideas from the worlds of Ruby, Python and Perl, providing a structured but extremely flexible Python web framework. It's also one of the first projects to leverage the emerging WSGI standard, which allows extensive re-use and flexibility -- but only if you need it. Out of the box, Pylons aims to make web development fast, flexible and easy. The first and last sentences are vague. TurboGears uses hyperlinks to substantiate each claim. Mako gives you many of its features in a nutshell. SQLAlchemy has a table of features and elaborations, and a link to testimonials. Cheetah does the same, tells where it is being used (to generate C++ code, Java, sql, form emails, and even Python code), and has a couple quotes on the home page. I hate to mention the word, but 'screencasts' is almost a standard. It wouldn't hurt if someone could put one together. True, they help and persuade new users a lot. Regarding the logo, I'm more concerned about the theme than the details. What guidelines are we going to give the designer? Just make a logo? Or make a logo containing an electrical tower? It's really up to us to choose our mascot, not leave it to the logo designer, otherwise he may go off totallyon a tangent.
Re: Pylons Logo Design
On Jun 1, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Mike Orr wrote: I like PylonsHQ. What we should do is put Pylons Headquarters at the top of the site as a segue from the domain name to the site. Pylonshq is short and easy to type. I just hate compound words as domain names: footemplate, fooframework, fooinc. pylons-framework.org is much better if we need that framework word. But how many people see a link with the raw URL in it, with nothing else around it? Not the people we're marketing to. Just deep links to mailing-list messages and the like. Pylonshq.org is available. Why don't we snap it up and make it an alias. Then we'll have the ability to make it the primary site later. Would we really lose our Google ranking if we made .com a redirect to .org? Lots of sites have both. Done, I'll setup the redirect tonight. I like the idea of having Headquarters put in the title, since that is in the URL and was our original intention. I'm not a fan of putting 'framework' in the domain, partly because I'm not sure that phrase will always apply or even really applies right now. The introduction can be improved, certainly. I wasn't here when Pylons was started or the website was created, but my sense is that Pylons has evolved since then. Its first adherents were looking for *any* framework that was Paste-ified (and thus WSGI-ified) from the ground up, and Pylons was it. Now we're getting more Pythoneers who want something more modular than Turbogears, non-Pythoneers who want something like Rails, newbies who want something easy to code, scalable, performant, and stable. The trick is to address all these audiences. If we focus totally on newbies, that leaves everybody else cold. Plus we need to focus on building 1.0 right now, not on bringing in hordes of newbies Because... We definitely need new copy for the website introduction and overview. Any volunteers? - we need all hands on deck - we don't have the resources to train a huge influx of newbies. after we get 1.0 and the documentation finished, then we'll be in a better position - upcoming changes may require changes in applications or cause a period of instability. Not what newbies are thrilled about. - other frameworks frankly do a better job of meeting newbie's needs. Why compete with them in a half-assed way? I definitely agree. You're right that WSGI is no longer important enough to fill 1/3 of the introduction. WSGI has become an infrastructure piece that all frameworks should support or else. Nevertheless, Pylons' use of WSGI as the core rather than an add-on is worth noting, as well as the ease of of plugging multiple applications into the same URL space via Paste or within a Pylons controller should be noted. I think its important in that its WSGI through-out the core, but yes, it is becoming more common so it could be considered more of a documentation thing rather than a 'core concept for the description' type thing. The first and last sentences are vague. TurboGears uses hyperlinks to substantiate each claim. Mako gives you many of its features in a nutshell. SQLAlchemy has a table of features and elaborations, and a link to testimonials. Cheetah does the same, tells where it is being used (to generate C++ code, Java, sql, form emails, and even Python code), and has a couple quotes on the home page. Regarding the logo, I'm more concerned about the theme than the details. What guidelines are we going to give the designer? Just make a logo? Or make a logo containing an electrical tower? It's really up to us to choose our mascot, not leave it to the logo designer, otherwise he may go off totallyon a tangent. Though it's worth asking him if he has some different ideas. I like the current yin-yang snakes in the Python logo but I didn't like some of the previous logos and refused to wear T-shirts that had them. Quixote has some windmill logos but what's so Quixote about them? The current theme that I plan on giving the designer: Imagine two pylons some ways apart, with a hand and part of arm reaching up to hold onto the line between them. It'd be zoomed in on the hand holding the power line, with some - \ | / - above it to show it being energized. Something like that perhaps, with only some of the Pylon in view. The hand shouldn't be realistic and prolly some vague shape of a hand. Generally, we're aiming to not have such a 'heavy' feel to the website as well, since the thick dark colors really make it feel weighted down. Something where it's easier to highlight news and new stuff going on, new screencasts, etc. Cheers, Ben --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit
