Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: A Home Brew 224 MHz Repeater Project. - Part 3 (The Exciter)
At 5/8/2009 21:26, you wrote: A Home Brew 224 MHz Repeater Project. May 2009 Part 3 The exciter (transmitter) First Post May 2, 2009, Second Post May 6, 2009 - This Post May 8, 2009 Moving right along... (snip) Let's talk about the coax connector being an RCA jack on the exciter PC Board. Why bother with a box chassis mount connector added to the path Why? To maintain proper shielding. Again, passing a wire/shield/any conductor through a hole in the box without bonding at that point will make the conductor act like a coupling probe. Sure, it may work but I claim so would doing away with the box altogether, so you could simply bolt the exciter board to a plate. Of course the harmonics generated by the exciter will radiate. If there are any RXs at the site that are harmonically related to your 220 TX you'll probably find out about it. I once had a similar problem in reverse (440 MVP hitting a co-located 220 RX exactly 1/2 the MVP TX freq.). This is where I learned about effective shielding techniques, why you can't do what you outline below. when in many cases it's more loss than it's worth. So... I soldered an RCA connector on the end of a section of quality small size (brown tan) Teflon coax and routed it through a hole made just large enough (to pass the RCA plug) with a Unibit Step Drill (bit). A low cost clone set (three in one package) of Unibit type step drill bits are almost a must have expense of less than $15 at Harbor Freight. (snip) The disadvantage of leaving the oscillator on all the time is a constant local low level signal that is sometimes a lot stronger than you would expect. One of my 224 MHz Spectrum transmitter oscillators can be heard almost a half mile from the repeater site (which is not really very professional or something to be proud of). In the case of this model exciter, one can key the entire module each transmission knowing the synthesizer requires about 350 mS (Milli seconds) to come on the air. Yuk! Wonder if there's some way of leaving the synth. powered up while disabling the rest of the exciter so you don't have to deal with this delay yet still not have the TX signal heard near the site. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] sleeping arrangements - Dayton Hamvention
At 5/17/2009 19:54, you wrote: Do not stay in miamisburg. You will be sorry. We had 30 messages about drugs on our room voicemail. Also when my other friend checked in someone said 'welcome to hell' to him. This was at the studio 6 in miamisburg. There also was when the miamisburg PD almost rear ended my friend who was driving.. I've stayed there 5 times never had a problem. At less than $30/night for a week w/fridge microwave, I don't expect much else other than no bedbugs/loud neighbors/dirty rooms. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] sleeping arrangements - Dayton Hamvention
Dayton is no worse/better than any other location where you might find sleeping arrangements maxed out. Some rooms/locations are going to be better than others and some hotel staff will be more helpful than others. It's just a microcosm of society. Mike WM4B (Formerly from Dayton/Former DARA member) From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n...@no6b.com Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 1:17 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] sleeping arrangements - Dayton Hamvention At 5/17/2009 19:54, you wrote: Do not stay in miamisburg. You will be sorry. We had 30 messages about drugs on our room voicemail. Also when my other friend checked in someone said 'welcome to hell' to him. This was at the studio 6 in miamisburg. There also was when the miamisburg PD almost rear ended my friend who was driving.. I've stayed there 5 times never had a problem. At less than $30/night for a week w/fridge microwave, I don't expect much else other than no bedbugs/loud neighbors/dirty rooms. Bob NO6B image001.jpgimage002.jpg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] One way transmitting question
On Fri, 22 May 2009, Christopher Hodgdon wrote: Ok, I have a question that has been bothering me over the last few days. I had mentioned that we wanted to use our repeater to send out a set of tones to activate fire style pager (this was some time ago) and people said we should not do it for one reason or another. One of those reasons was that it might be considered a one way broadcast and not legal under FCC rules for amateur radio. That being said, I know that some people have come on here and asked about using a weather radio on their repeater system, etc. Having it setup to send out alerts over the repeater when they come in. Would this not also be considered a 1 way broadcast for reception by general public, per-say. Re-repeating NOAA's broadcast and/or tones, and generating your own alert tones is dodgy at best. If you did so, it would be a one-way transmission since there is no reason to respond, no incentive to pop up on the local repeater. However, if you transmitted a CAPCODE or a two-tone alert tone for Net Requested then, that meets the definition: (2) Brief transmissions necessary to establishing two-way communications with other stations; I believe that if even one ham responded, you'd meet the requirement. (2) is satisfied (reach with me here) by the actions of a fire department dispatcher. There are very few occasions in fire departments where a page tone is not followed by radio traffic -- especially in rural volunteer departments. How can you legally include a weather alert radio in a repeater setup and have it function as required? Why not just have a two-tone pager set to the same frequency and activation tone as the weather alerts? If all available tone slots a set matched to the incoming tone, you'll be able to hear the weather alerts, or unmute the reciever. Then you don't have to mess with FCC compliance, or modification of the repeater. Then you can enjoy the 1+kW EIRP of NOAA's transmitters. Another poster commented: Tones for the activation of pagers are Telecommand and information bulletins. I strongly disagree with this. Telecommand involves the remote operation of equipment, i.e.: repeaters and spacecraft. Telecommand does not cover remotely managing people. Remember, the intent of the amateur service is not to do those things which commercial radio does for profit. We can't build phone networks over radio and sell bandwidth or airtime to cover our costs. We can't operate for-profit or non-profit paging transmitters in the amateur bands. We can only serve our own needs. We have a great deal of technology available to us now for various forms of amateur experimentation and exploitation. We must keep in mind however that our purpose is to communicate. The FCC has limited us in the manner of what types of things we may share, when, and how we are allowed to communicate. Fundamentally, we're about communicating, not emergency service. There's other sections of radio for that: Part 90. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst From the rules at ARRL.org: (b) In addition to one-way transmissions specifically authorized elsewhere in this Part, an amateur station may transmit the following types of one-way communications: (1) Brief transmissions necessary to make adjustments to the station; (2) Brief transmissions necessary to establishing two-way communications with other stations; (3) Telecommand; (4) Transmissions necessary to providing emergency communications; (5) Transmissions necessary to assisting persons learning, or improving proficiency in, the international Morse code; (6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins; (7) Transmissions of telemetry. ...
Re: [Repeater-Builder] One way transmitting question
Telemetry is legal, so if it's alerting you as to the conditions at or near the site, it should be fine. Nowhere does it require the telemetry to be in data-only format. Joe M. On Sat 23/05/09 4:28 PM , Kris Kirby k...@catonic.us sent: On Fri, 22 May 2009, Christopher Hodgdon wrote: Ok, I have a question that has been bothering me over the last few days. I had mentioned that we wanted to use our repeater to send out a set of tones to activate fire style pager (this was some time ago) and people said we should not do it for one reason or another. One of those reasons was that it might be considered a one way broadcast and not legal under FCC rules for amateur radio. That being said, I know that some people have come on here and asked about using a weather radio on their repeater system, etc. Having it setup to send out alerts over the repeater when they come in. Would this not also be considered a 1 way broadcast for reception by general public, per-say. Re-repeating NOAA's broadcast and/or tones, and generating your own alert tones is dodgy at best. If you did so, it would be a one-way transmission since there is no reason to respond, no incentive to pop up on the local repeater. However, if you transmitted a CAPCODE or a two-tone alert tone for Net Requested then, that meets the definition: (2) Brief transmissions necessary to establishing two-way communicationswith other stations; I believe that if even one ham responded, you'd meet the requirement. (2) is satisfied (reach with me here) by the actions of a fire department dispatcher. There are very few occasions in fire departments where a page tone is not followed by radio traffic -- especially in rural volunteer departments. How can you legally include a weather alert radio in a repeater setup and have it function as required? Why not just have a two-tone pager set to the same frequency and activation tone as the weather alerts? If all available tone slots a set matched to the incoming tone, you'll be able to hear the weather alerts, or unmute the reciever. Then you don't have to mess with FCC compliance, or modification of the repeater. Then you can enjoy the 1+kW EIRP of NOAA's transmitters. Another poster commented: Tones for the activation of pagers are Telecommand and information bulletins. I strongly disagree with this. Telecommand involves the remote operation of equipment, i.e.: repeaters and spacecraft. Telecommand does not cover remotely managing people. Remember, the intent of the amateur service is not to do those things which commercial radio does for profit. We can't build phone networks over radio and sell bandwidth or airtime to cover our costs. We can't operate for-profit or non-profit paging transmitters in the amateur bands. We can only serve our own needs. We have a great deal of technology available to us now for various forms of amateur experimentation and exploitation. We must keep in mind however that our purpose is to communicate. The FCC has limited us in the manner of what types of things we may share, when, and how we are allowed to communicate. Fundamentally, we're about communicating, not emergency service. There's other sections of radio for that: Part 90. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst From the rules at ARRL.org: (b) In addition to one-way transmissions specifically authorized elsewhere in this Part, an amateur station may transmit the following types of one-way communications: (1) Brief transmissions necessary to make adjustments to the station; (2) Brief transmissions necessary to establishing two-way communications with other stations; (3) Telecommand; (4) Transmissions necessary to providing emergency communications; (5) Transmissions necessary to assisting persons learning, or improving proficiency in, the international Morse code; (6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins; (7) Transmissions of telemetry. ... Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join(Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] One way transmitting question
On Sat, 23 May 2009 m...@nb.net wrote: Telemetry is legal, so if it's alerting you as to the conditions at or near the site, it should be fine. Nowhere does it require the telemetry to be in data-only format. Yes, But... You didn't clarify how in the world that matters in the current argument. I don't care if it's 150 MPH winds and gusting at the repeater site -- I'm going to find a hole in the ground to hide in! Analog telemetry was used for the early rockets of the space program. However, repeating a tone generated by NOAA doesn't tell you anything about conditions at the repeater site. Nor should you care, since a properly engineered and installed repeater won't have any difficulties with high winds, rain, or hail. Telemetry is not a catch-all for Hey, a weather radio at the repeater site went off. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
Re: [Repeater-Builder] One way transmitting question
I thought the original post was about alarms and paging, not weather alerts. So, if the fan goes out on your amp, it's better to let it burn rather then send out an alert to notify a control op? Oh, and last I knew weather DOES impact repeater sites the same as any other location, so if strong thunderstorms are coming, that may be something you would want to know to keep an ear on the repeater. Joe M. On Sat 23/05/09 6:52 PM , Kris Kirby k...@catonic.us sent: On Sat, 23 May 2009 m...@nb.net wrote: Telemetry is legal, so if it's alerting you as to the conditions at or near the site, it should be fine. Nowhere does it require the telemetry to be in data-only format. Yes, But... You didn't clarify how in the world that matters in the current argument. I don't care if it's 150 MPH winds and gusting at the repeater site -- I'm going to find a hole in the ground to hide in! Analog telemetry was used for the early rockets of the space program. However, repeating a tone generated by NOAA doesn't tell you anything about conditions at the repeater site. Nor should you care, since a properly engineered and installed repeater won't have any difficulties with high winds, rain, or hail. Telemetry is not a catch-all for Hey, a weather radio at the repeater site went off. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join(Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Cable identity
Anybody know the nominal impedance of a coax cable labeled: Digital Microwave Corp LK 11? It has a copper solid center conductor (looks like 22 gauge), 3/16 foam dialectic that fits into an F connector for RG-6U, an inner aluminum foil shield and an outer braid shield. It looks like video cable but I can't find any specs on it. Thanks Bruce K7IJt **A strong credit score is 700 or above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585033x1201462753/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=115b cd=Maystrongfooter52309NO115)
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Cable identity
I think it's 72-Ohm To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: cruising7...@aol.com Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 21:21:23 -0400 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Cable identity Anybody know the nominal impedance of a coax cable labeled: Digital Microwave Corp LK 11? It has a copper solid center conductor (looks like 22 gauge), 3/16 foam dialectic that fits into an F connector for RG-6U, an inner aluminum foil shield and an outer braid shield. It looks like video cable but I can't find any specs on it. Thanks Bruce K7IJt A strong credit score is 700 or above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! _ Looking to move somewhere new this winter? Let ninemsn property help http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Edomain%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Fs%5Fcid%3DFDMedia%3ANineMSN%5FHotmail%5FTagline_t=774152450_r=Domain_tagline_m=EXT
