Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
When did this list become a law list what does any of this have to do with repeater building. I thought this list was for tech discussions. How the list members use the tech info is their problem. Sent by Good Messaging (www.good.com) -Original Message- From: wd8chl [mailto:wd8...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:42 AM Eastern Standard Time To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject:Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet WA3GIN wrote: Let get real...we're making up configurations and drawing conclusions that will perhaps not even be considered. Without being part of the public safety team in this fellas community all these what-ifs are senseless. Each community and its emergency management will decide what works best for them...the fella asked for some technical advice. Lets keep the tread on the technical advice and not try to pretend we can offer more than that without details about the entire system design, architecture and implementation plans... In this guys town a public safety agency might be a part-time assignment for a volunteer fireman. Remember there is 50% of this nations population that doesn't live in the 200 largest cities ;-) Telework is very important to the future of our good old USA...we better figure out how to do it and soon! You need to get real. Fire, police and EMS dispatch have stringent requirements. Several people have brought up the issues with legal and insurance requirements, and if a dept doesn't meet those, they can have their insurance dropped, if (god forbid) something is mis-handled because of this lack, the dept and everyone in it will likely get sued, and the people responsible could even wind up in jail. It has happened here in Ohio-in fact, an entire city was disbanded and the mayor and police chief put in jail by the state for the way the police dept was run. It's not quite the same, but look up New Rome, Ohio. Since 1974, the award-winning Alpert JFCS has helped families of all faiths throughout most of Palm Beach County, FL, via counseling, seniors services, residences for the disabled, mentoring children, support groups and a lot more. SOLUTIONS FOR LIVING www.JFCSonline.com Please take note of our new website and E-Mail Addresses. Please update your contacts ASAP. . NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and please delete it from your computer.
[Repeater-Builder] PLEASE READ - was dispatch centers run through the internet
Since we have veered off course with this discussion, and it seams that everyone that was interested gave an opinion, the THREAD IS NOW CLOSED. Let's move on - back to subjects that are more on topic. Thank you, Kevin Custer
[Repeater-Builder] - was dispatch centers run through the internet
Kevin Custer wrote: and it seams Geesh It seems that I got lost in the seams.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
Michael Cox wrote: Ralph (and others) So is there a IDA equipped version the controller? If not, what does it mean that I have the IDA equiped version? The IDA version of the MASTR II station was (originally) controlled by a means other than the usual plug-in cards. What you bought is okay, but maybe not the preferred version for building a stand-alone repeater. Does that mean I need, for example, a different duplexer? No, it has nothing to do with the duplexer - or anything RF for that matter. When we build repeaters from surplus equipment, most of us rip out the original control circuitry and connect an after market repeater controller of some sort. Many have mentioned the Pion Simon units because they plug right in, but not to the model of station you bought from eBay. That being said, either of the NHRC GE controllers will plug-in to one you bought. The conversion you'll do to this station to make a repeater will likely more closely follow one written for a mobile - as you'll be using the Systems Board for controller interface if you choose a plug-in NHRC model. If you choose some other controller - it'll have to be wired in making it a bit more difficult. Kevin Custer
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
You can make the IDA controller MASTRII work for you, but you aren't going to find a drop-in controller. Look at: http://www.qsl.net/w4xe/rpttech/rpttech21.htm for some good information about how to do it. I have a UHF MASTRII with an IDA controller here that has been an ongoing project for many years. It keeps getting pushed to the back of the pile, mainly because the Maggiore repeater that the MASTRII is suppose to replace never failed. The IDA controller came in several versions, I have the repeater version in mine. You must leave the IDA controller in place because it supplies the 10 Volts DC that is required to run the MASTRII. I would leave the IDA controller functional, except for cutting the PTT lead to the transmitter. That way you can use the speaker in the IDA controller for a monitor. I plan to leave my IDA functional and have it as a back-up controller that I can switch online. 73, Joe, K1ike Michael Cox wrote: Ralph (and others) So is there a IDA equipped version the controller? If not, what does it mean that I have the IDA equiped version?
[Repeater-Builder] Andrew coax needed
Looking to buy some 40ft of Andrew LDF4-50A. What's the best place to order some from? Thnx in advance Newark NJ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
I agree this is for tech info 73's ki4ljm Marc Lonstein M.O. Unlimited Inc. P.O. Box 5364 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33310-5364 Ph: 954-720-9200 Ph: 561-368-3557 Fax: 561-368-1885 mailto:m...@mounlimited.com mailto:m...@mounlimited.com http://www.mounlimited.com/ www.mounlimited.com This e-mail transmission contains information intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. Further, it contains information that may be privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your e-mail system. Thank you for your compliance. _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Pease Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:39 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet When did this list become a law list what does any of this have to do with repeater building. I thought this list was for tech discussions. How the list members use the tech info is their problem. Sent by Good Messaging (www.good.com) -Original Message- From: wd8chl [mailto:wd8chl@ mailto:wd8...@gmail.com gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:42 AM Eastern Standard Time To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject:Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet WA3GIN wrote: Let get real...we're making up configurations and drawing conclusions that will perhaps not even be considered. Without being part of the public safety team in this fellas community all these what-ifs are senseless. Each community and its emergency management will decide what works best for them...the fella asked for some technical advice. Lets keep the tread on the technical advice and not try to pretend we can offer more than that without details about the entire system design, architecture and implementation plans... In this guys town a public safety agency might be a part-time assignment for a volunteer fireman. Remember there is 50% of this nations population that doesn't live in the 200 largest cities ;-) Telework is very important to the future of our good old USA...we better figure out how to do it and soon! You need to get real. Fire, police and EMS dispatch have stringent requirements. Several people have brought up the issues with legal and insurance requirements, and if a dept doesn't meet those, they can have their insurance dropped, if (god forbid) something is mis-handled because of this lack, the dept and everyone in it will likely get sued, and the people responsible could even wind up in jail. It has happened here in Ohio-in fact, an entire city was disbanded and the mayor and police chief put in jail by the state for the way the police dept was run. It's not quite the same, but look up New Rome, Ohio. Since 1974, the award-winning Alpert JFCS has helped families of all faiths throughout most of Palm Beach County, FL, via counseling, seniors services, residences for the disabled, mentoring children, support groups and a lot more. SOLUTIONS FOR LIVING (R) http://www.jfcsonline.com/ www.JFCSonline.com Please take note of our new website and E-Mail Addresses. Please update your contacts ASAP. ___ NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and please delete it from your computer. . __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4740 (20100103) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
I psted tech info but a handful jumped on the band wagon of legalities On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 6:51 AM, Marc Lonstein ki4...@mounlimited.comwrote: I agree this is for tech info 73's ki4ljm Marc Lonstein M.O. Unlimited Inc. P.O. Box 5364 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33310-5364 Ph: 954-720-9200 Ph: 561-368-3557 Fax: 561-368-1885 mailto:m...@mounlimited.com m...@mounlimited.com ***www.mounlimited.com* http://www.mounlimited.com/ *This e-mail transmission contains information intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. Further, it contains information that may be privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your e-mail system. Thank you for your compliance.* -- *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto: repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Pease *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:39 AM *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet When did this list become a law list what does any of this have to do with repeater building. I thought this list was for tech discussions. How the list members use the tech info is their problem. Sent by Good Messaging (www.good.com) -Original Message- From: wd8chl [mailto:wd8...@gmail.com wd8...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:42 AM Eastern Standard Time To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject:Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet WA3GIN wrote: Let get real...we're making up configurations and drawing conclusions that will perhaps not even be considered. Without being part of the public safety team in this fellas community all these what-ifs are senseless. Each community and its emergency management will decide what works best for them...the fella asked for some technical advice. Lets keep the tread on the technical advice and not try to pretend we can offer more than that without details about the entire system design, architecture and implementation plans... In this guys town a public safety agency might be a part-time assignment for a volunteer fireman. Remember there is 50% of this nations population that doesn't live in the 200 largest cities ;-) Telework is very important to the future of our good old USA...we better figure out how to do it and soon! You need to get real. Fire, police and EMS dispatch have stringent requirements. Several people have brought up the issues with legal and insurance requirements, and if a dept doesn't meet those, they can have their insurance dropped, if (god forbid) something is mis-handled because of this lack, the dept and everyone in it will likely get sued, and the people responsible could even wind up in jail. It has happened here in Ohio-in fact, an entire city was disbanded and the mayor and police chief put in jail by the state for the way the police dept was run. It's not quite the same, but look up New Rome, Ohio. Since 1974, the award-winning Alpert JFCS has helped families of all faiths throughout most of Palm Beach County, FL, via counseling, seniors services, residences for the disabled, mentoring children, support groups and a lot more. * SOLUTIONS FOR LIVING (R)* *www.JFCSonline.com* http://www.jfcsonline.com/ * Please take note of our new website and E-Mail Addresses. * * Please update your contacts ASAP. * ___ NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and please delete it from your computer. . __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4740 (20100103) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
I leave my IDA controller intact, just put the repeat switch in the inhibit position. All necessary connections can be made to the repeater for an external controller on the two Molex connectors on the upper left side of the rear of the chassis. I use the unused frequency select pins to bring out the rest of the connections needed to the system board. Jumpers from the freq select pins where they extend through the system board connect to the audio and COS pins on the receiver board that extend through the system board. I use the old style sockets from miniature tube sockets to push over the pins extending through the system board. Mic and PTT terminals already exist on the Molex connectors. If the external controller fails, just unplug it from the Molex connectors and move the repeat switch on the IDA controller back into the repeat position for emergency operation. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Joe k1ike_m...@snet.net wrote: From: Joe k1ike_m...@snet.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 8:22 AM You can make the IDA controller MASTRII work for you, but you aren't going to find a drop-in controller. Look at: http://www.qsl. net/w4xe/ rpttech/rpttech2 1.htm for some good information about how to do it. I have a UHF MASTRII with an IDA controller here that has been an ongoing project for many years. It keeps getting pushed to the back of the pile, mainly because the Maggiore repeater that the MASTRII is suppose to replace never failed. The IDA controller came in several versions, I have the repeater version in mine. You must leave the IDA controller in place because it supplies the 10 Volts DC that is required to run the MASTRII. I would leave the IDA controller functional, except for cutting the PTT lead to the transmitter. That way you can use the speaker in the IDA controller for a monitor. I plan to leave my IDA functional and have it as a back-up controller that I can switch online. 73, Joe, K1ike Michael Cox wrote: Ralph (and others) So is there a IDA equipped version the controller? If not, what does it mean that I have the IDA equiped version?
[Repeater-Builder] Service Monitor Input Protection
Hello to the group. Knowing most of you have service monitors for the Repeater Builder Hobby, I wanted to pose the following question. What method do you use to protect the input of your service monitor from excessive RF Power input? I am referring to the input/output jack that is limited to 2.5 watts on MANY service monitors. I know I can use an attenuator, but that gets removed for sensitivity checks and may not get put back on. One suggestion is a RF Relay that would trip on say one watt and put the power to a dummy load. The problem is I have used one of the cheap circuits in the past and toasted transistors in a Pre-amp, before the relay reacted as the book said it should. However I know there are circuits in say the Mirage Amp that also has a Pre-Amp that is removed from the antenna during transmit, that works well. What are you doing to protect your monitor? Appreciate your thoughts. 73 JIM KA2AJH
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
On 1/4/2010 2:03 PM, Jed Barton wrote: Hey guys, I am working on a project and am wondering if anyone has done this. Here's the proposal, to setup a dispatch center for an FD, where the dispatchers can sit at home and work the entire thing. This is not a very busy department, that's why they thought it would be good to do it. I've done a lot of research, and it can certainly be done. This obviously brings up a lot of debate for a number of reasons. In looking at it though, the relyability of the net is very good compared to a verizon phone line. Curious if anyone has done something like this before. For the phone system, we'reusing a virtual phone system that has proven relyability. Thanks, Jed I was going to bring up my usual rants about building things right when doing VoIP linking, but I've come up with a new way to deal with this recurring question from well-meaning folks who just want to save some money... Ask your constituents. If they agree that the dispatchers can sit at home and work reliably when they're bleeding to death in a car wreck, go for it. Otherwise, no matter how expensive it is, they probably expect something better from their tax dollars and you'll have to get them to go fight for a real budget for you, hopefully at the expense of some other local government pork project, and not by raising taxes. Priorities, priorities... Let us know which area you live in so we can all call the Press and have them come over to ask some pointed questions of your elected officials who are directing you to even THINK about using cheap VoIP solutions, without an experienced IP Network Engineer involved, for Public Safety Dispatch. Seriously. You don't sound qualified to be building this, even if it were a good idea. If I lived there I'd want someone who'd had at least 15 or more years of IP networking design in a high-availability zero-downtime environment designing such a system. And residential broadband ALWAYS comes with the disclaimer that it's 100% NOT guaranteed. Ever. There's network design flaw #1. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
On 1/4/2010 2:33 PM, wd8chl wrote: Security is also a big issue with trying to use the internet for something like this. Anyone with a little knowledge can hack into it and do whatever. Who needs to hack? All common VoIP protocols in use are sniffable and playable from 100% free tools like Wireshark. All that's required is a copy of the packets... piece of cake. We do it all the time for troubleshooting in the VoIP telco hardware vendor world. This whole plan probably also runs afoul of HIPPA regulations for Medical dispatch, once you start sending un-encrypted VoIP to a residential IP from the dispatch center, now that I think a little more about it. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Service Monitor Input Protection
Jim, Many years ago when I was servicing radio equipment for Bell Canada, we used a special fuse holder with a very small value fuse on the input connector. That worked well and protected the external pad that we used on the signal generator. 73 John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: James ka2...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:30 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Service Monitor Input Protection Hello to the group. Knowing most of you have service monitors for the Repeater Builder Hobby, I wanted to pose the following question. What method do you use to protect the input of your service monitor from excessive RF Power input? I am referring to the input/output jack that is limited to 2.5 watts on MANY service monitors. I know I can use an attenuator, but that gets removed for sensitivity checks and may not get put back on. One suggestion is a RF Relay that would trip on say one watt and put the power to a dummy load. The problem is I have used one of the cheap circuits in the past and toasted transistors in a Pre-amp, before the relay reacted as the book said it should. However I know there are circuits in say the Mirage Amp that also has a Pre-Amp that is removed from the antenna during transmit, that works well. What are you doing to protect your monitor? Appreciate your thoughts. 73 JIM KA2AJH Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
On 1/4/2010 4:24 PM, Randy Ross wrote: Given the inherit instability of the internet (it was NEVER designed to do what we are doing with it), I would consider any communications system which is reliant upon the internet to be flawed by design and completely untrustworthy. We better shut down the mailing list then, it'll never work. LOL! You need to rephrase that whole sentence. The Internet isn't inherently unstable at all. It's just not built for circuit-switched voice. It CAN be used as transport for voice with the right design, monitoring, and EXPENSE... but if you're going to go through all of the necessary questions and redundant hardware tests to get that level of service, you might as well just pay for a POTS line which comes with highly-redundant hardware driving it, and battery backup thrown in for free. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Service Monitor Input Protection
I have a 30 dB 250 W pad that I use with radios that put out over 50 Watts. My HP8921 will handle that without problem. It'd work with the 2.5W case. I don't remove it for sensitivity checks as I can compensate for it in the 8921. Most service monitors modern enough to have been designed for cell phones (those with 10 W inputs) can do this. It's not always obvious how to do it, but they can. The IFR1900CSA I had could as well. A relay is going to have to be awfully fast to do what you want to. At worst, use a 20 dB pad as a fuse and move the decimal point in your head when checking sensitivity. On 1/5/2010 4:30 PM, James wrote: Hello to the group. Knowing most of you have service monitors for the Repeater Builder Hobby, I wanted to pose the following question. What method do you use to protect the input of your service monitor from excessive RF Power input? I am referring to the input/output jack that is limited to 2.5 watts on MANY service monitors. I know I can use an attenuator, but that gets removed for sensitivity checks and may not get put back on. One suggestion is a RF Relay that would trip on say one watt and put the power to a dummy load. The problem is I have used one of the cheap circuits in the past and toasted transistors in a Pre-amp, before the relay reacted as the book said it should. However I know there are circuits in say the Mirage Amp that also has a Pre-Amp that is removed from the antenna during transmit, that works well. What are you doing to protect your monitor? Appreciate your thoughts. 73 JIM KA2AJH -- mailto:o...@ozindfw.net Oz POB 93167 Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
Must be me, but at 7:28m, our leader Kevin said 'this thread is OVER.' Jim - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet On 1/4/2010 4:24 PM, Randy Ross wrote: Given the inherit instability of the internet (it was NEVER designed to do what we are doing with it), I would consider any communications system which is reliant upon the internet to be flawed by design and completely untrustworthy. We better shut down the mailing list then, it'll never work. LOL! You need to rephrase that whole sentence. The Internet isn't inherently unstable at all. It's just not built for circuit-switched voice. It CAN be used as transport for voice with the right design, monitoring, and EXPENSE... but if you're going to go through all of the necessary questions and redundant hardware tests to get that level of service, you might as well just pay for a POTS line which comes with highly-redundant hardware driving it, and battery backup thrown in for free. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
On 1/4/2010 5:20 PM, Bill Smith wrote: VoIP is used daily and has been for over five years for mission-critical applications such major electric and gas utilities and public safety. VoIP isn't the problem, it's the transport medium. Or more accurately, lack of a backup/redundant transport medium beyond the data center. The last mile has always been the problem. Backhoe fade affects the PSTN just as much as it affects the IP network. The PSTN is slowly moving over to IP transport as their back office connectivity as well... but they're paying big bucks for redundant underground routes, hardware that can handle switching to the backup routes, people to test that these backups WORK on a regular basis, and to design it in the first place. A residential IP connection meets none of the requirements for anything like that, but it is typically just as vulnerable to backhoe fade as the POTS line. Our VoIP strategy for our PBX at work is designed like this: a) require IP connectivity to control the call via a PC application. (All agents must open tickets anyway, so if they don't have IP connectivity, they're done for the day.) b) Primary voice is via a SIP client on the PC. If quality is bad... c) Secondary voice is the PBX still has PSTN connectivity at the office, and can dial out to cell or home POTS lines, so there's two more network transports. d) All ACD PBX's are cross-strapped via SIP trunks and can dial out into the PSTN from multiple locations in multiple countries if their primary routes out are dead/not-working. e) Personal desk phone lines are NEVER mixed on the same VoIP PBX as ACD/customer inbound traffic. That's a completely different and redundant PBX system. NONE of this is anywhere NEAR reliable enough for 911 dispatch. If we hang up on someone by accident in the middle of a call, no one dies. We just call them back. Dispatcher's kid fires up BitTorrent to download illegal copies of DVD's/CD's, and jams the upstream connection so that the VoIP (typically UDP packets) get dropped going back to the dispatch office, and they drop a call right when someone's giving their address... Not to mention, how you going to support E911 in that environment? Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
I'm waiting to here on this thread that it must be the President's fault this guy asked the question, haha. When are we going back to tech talk? I don't really care much to read some people's subjective opinions regarding this guy's concept nor do I want to wear out my delete key. This guys motivation or his bosses directive is none of our business pro or con. The Emergency Managment, Emergency Call Center, Radio Manager and Information Security Officer qualified folks on this reflector know what the applicable regulations and DOJ requirements are and we sure don't need to hear about it from the what if experts... I'm beginning to wonder if someone just planted this topic to watch this reflector self-distruct, DUH! - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet On 1/4/2010 2:33 PM, wd8chl wrote: Security is also a big issue with trying to use the internet for something like this. Anyone with a little knowledge can hack into it and do whatever. Who needs to hack? All common VoIP protocols in use are sniffable and playable from 100% free tools like Wireshark. All that's required is a copy of the packets... piece of cake. We do it all the time for troubleshooting in the VoIP telco hardware vendor world. This whole plan probably also runs afoul of HIPPA regulations for Medical dispatch, once you start sending un-encrypted VoIP to a residential IP from the dispatch center, now that I think a little more about it. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
On 1/4/2010 5:32 PM, WA3GIN wrote: Don, You have pointed out some valid concerns but the world doesn't care...VOIP is cost effective for day to day operations and everyone is going there as fast as they can...the fact that everyone is going there will bring the reliability you indicate is needed, before too long. And you don't switch the dispatch office over to it until it is. Just remember the telcos weren't that reliable for decades... And dispatch offices used RF to avoid them. but the world is changing and there ain't muc we can do about it except trying to bring the best ideas and concepts to the planning meetings to ensure as best we can that these networks have adequate redundancy, cyber security, etc. BS. You don't plan to lower quality in a dispatch office. You bring the ideas to the meeting to say, It's not really ready for us yet, sorry. Or you work a little harder and analyze the redundancy and uptime of the existing system, then do the same analysis on the system you're switching to... and show they're not equal, and ask the public served by the agency the their elected representatives if they can live with that for the cost-savings. (I haven't seen any tax refunds back because my local 911 dispatch center went to VoIP yet. They haven't, but if they do... I'll enjoy you guys handing back the cash. Yeah, right. Not happening. So keep the money, and do it right please. Last I checked, I'm paying for it.) Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] PLEASE READ - was dispatch centers run through the internet
On 1/5/2010 6:28 AM, Kevin Custer wrote: Since we have veered off course with this discussion, and it seams that everyone that was interested gave an opinion, the THREAD IS NOW CLOSED. Let's move on - back to subjects that are more on topic. Thank you, Kevin Custer Crap, sorry Kevin. Just read this, since I was reading messages in order. Apologies to have continued the thread. For those wondering, the reason VoIP and other links are related to repeater-building is that repeaters without links are generally a dead technology these days... people are far too used to instantaneous world-wide communication to find a small coverage non-linked analog FM repeater to be of much use unless the other means of communication are unavailable. Try finding anyone under the age of 30 who doesn't see an FM repeater system as quaint these days. Or as one friend put it, Ahh, Ham Radio is IRC for old guys! Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Service Monitor Input Protection
Cushmans used low value fuses for years. Eric Lowell Eastern Maine Electronics Inc. 48 Loon Road Wesley ME 04686 eme@starband.net www.satnetmaine.com 207-210-7469 From: James ka2...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 5, 2010 5:30:00 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Service Monitor Input Protection Hello to the group. Knowing most of you have service monitors for the Repeater Builder Hobby, I wanted to pose the following question. What method do you use to protect the input of your service monitor from excessive RF Power input? I am referring to the input/output jack that is limited to 2.5 watts on MANY service monitors. I know I can use an attenuator, but that gets removed for sensitivity checks and may not get put back on. One suggestion is a RF Relay that would trip on say one watt and put the power to a dummy load. The problem is I have used one of the cheap circuits in the past and toasted transistors in a Pre-amp, before the relay reacted as the book said it should. However I know there are circuits in say the Mirage Amp that also has a Pre-Amp that is removed from the antenna during transmit, that works well. What are you doing to protect your monitor? Appreciate your thoughts. 73 JIM KA2AJH
[Repeater-Builder] Longshot - Duke Energy/Texas Eastern
Does anyone have any two-way or microwave engineering contacts at Duke Energy or Texas Eastern (pipeline)? Along the same lines, does anyone know if they maintain their own microwave network or if they subcontract the maintenance out? --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
On 1/5/2010 4:17 PM, WA3GIN wrote: I'm waiting to here on this thread that it must be the President's fault this guy asked the question, haha. When are we going back to tech talk? I just sent an apology. I read the list and reply to messages in order received. Just as a side-note for your edification, VoIP and IP design and how to troubleshoot such technologies (e.g. packet sniffers) *is* ... talking tech these days. Just so you're aware. Anyone who knows me, knows I've been involved in multiple pioneering efforts to bring VoIP linking to Amateur Radio for over a decade now. My beef with this guy's question is that it showed a lack of proper engineering DESIGN, and requirements planning, not any problem with the technology being proposed. Proper engineering design is what we're all shooting for, even on our hobby radio systems, right? In this case he was asking about a professional system and has less knowledge of VoIP than the HOBBYISTS here... so he'd better find a pro and find one quick. :-) Anyway, have a nice evening. Oh wait, I almost forgot... Yes, there IS a secret plan to destroy the Internet by having side-conversations like those that normally happen in person when talking to other humans. It's been going on since the USENET days. (Maybe the conspiracy extends all the way back to BBS's and FidoNet but we're not sure. The original founders of The Plan are shrouded in mystery.) I'm sure The Plan will be effective soon and the world will come to an end. One of the major components of the plan is to get people to react with snide remarks, which makes it all work so very well! ;-) Hahaha... Nate WY0X I don't really care much to read some people's subjective opinions regarding this guy's concept nor do I want to wear out my delete key. This guys motivation or his bosses directive is none of our business pro or con. The Emergency Managment, Emergency Call Center, Radio Manager and Information Security Officer qualified folks on this reflector know what the applicable regulations and DOJ requirements are and we sure don't need to hear about it from the what if experts... I'm beginning to wonder if someone just planted this topic to watch this reflector self-distruct, DUH! - Original Message - *From:* Nate Duehr mailto:n...@natetech.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:43 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet On 1/4/2010 2:33 PM, wd8chl wrote: Security is also a big issue with trying to use the internet for something like this. Anyone with a little knowledge can hack into it and do whatever. Who needs to hack? All common VoIP protocols in use are sniffable and playable from 100% free tools like Wireshark. All that's required is a copy of the packets... piece of cake. We do it all the time for troubleshooting in the VoIP telco hardware vendor world. This whole plan probably also runs afoul of HIPPA regulations for Medical dispatch, once you start sending un-encrypted VoIP to a residential IP from the dispatch center, now that I think a little more about it. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
Your first mistake is making the assumption this would be done on a standard residential connection. You can get commercial and better systems to a resident, but only at business expenses. There would be no need to have anything other then the dedicated system on it. Many companies do this anyways for those wholike to telecommute, I know of several in the DC metro area that do this as well as many others throught the country, and they too have zero down time because the system is not so hard to implement. I would agree with you if a person was using a standard residential line. On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: On 1/4/2010 5:20 PM, Bill Smith wrote: VoIP is used daily and has been for over five years for mission-critical applications such major electric and gas utilities and public safety. VoIP isn't the problem, it's the transport medium. Or more accurately, lack of a backup/redundant transport medium beyond the data center. The last mile has always been the problem. Backhoe fade affects the PSTN just as much as it affects the IP network. The PSTN is slowly moving over to IP transport as their back office connectivity as well... but they're paying big bucks for redundant underground routes, hardware that can handle switching to the backup routes, people to test that these backups WORK on a regular basis, and to design it in the first place. A residential IP connection meets none of the requirements for anything like that, but it is typically just as vulnerable to backhoe fade as the POTS line. Our VoIP strategy for our PBX at work is designed like this: a) require IP connectivity to control the call via a PC application. (All agents must open tickets anyway, so if they don't have IP connectivity, they're done for the day.) b) Primary voice is via a SIP client on the PC. If quality is bad... c) Secondary voice is the PBX still has PSTN connectivity at the office, and can dial out to cell or home POTS lines, so there's two more network transports. d) All ACD PBX's are cross-strapped via SIP trunks and can dial out into the PSTN from multiple locations in multiple countries if their primary routes out are dead/not-working. e) Personal desk phone lines are NEVER mixed on the same VoIP PBX as ACD/customer inbound traffic. That's a completely different and redundant PBX system. NONE of this is anywhere NEAR reliable enough for 911 dispatch. If we hang up on someone by accident in the middle of a call, no one dies. We just call them back. Dispatcher's kid fires up BitTorrent to download illegal copies of DVD's/CD's, and jams the upstream connection so that the VoIP (typically UDP packets) get dropped going back to the dispatch office, and they drop a call right when someone's giving their address... Not to mention, how you going to support E911 in that environment? Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
It ain't repeater tech talk and you forgot to blame it on the president ;-) I'm already having a nice evening but thanks anyway...I just read the note from this morning that this thread is OVER! Best, dave - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet On 1/5/2010 4:17 PM, WA3GIN wrote: I'm waiting to here on this thread that it must be the President's fault this guy asked the question, haha. When are we going back to tech talk? I just sent an apology. I read the list and reply to messages in order received. Just as a side-note for your edification, VoIP and IP design and how to troubleshoot such technologies (e.g. packet sniffers) *is* ... talking tech these days. Just so you're aware. Anyone who knows me, knows I've been involved in multiple pioneering efforts to bring VoIP linking to Amateur Radio for over a decade now. My beef with this guy's question is that it showed a lack of proper engineering DESIGN, and requirements planning, not any problem with the technology being proposed. Proper engineering design is what we're all shooting for, even on our hobby radio systems, right? In this case he was asking about a professional system and has less knowledge of VoIP than the HOBBYISTS here... so he'd better find a pro and find one quick. :-) Anyway, have a nice evening. Oh wait, I almost forgot... Yes, there IS a secret plan to destroy the Internet by having side-conversations like those that normally happen in person when talking to other humans. It's been going on since the USENET days. (Maybe the conspiracy extends all the way back to BBS's and FidoNet but we're not sure. The original founders of The Plan are shrouded in mystery.) I'm sure The Plan will be effective soon and the world will come to an end. One of the major components of the plan is to get people to react with snide remarks, which makes it all work so very well! ;-) Hahaha... Nate WY0X I don't really care much to read some people's subjective opinions regarding this guy's concept nor do I want to wear out my delete key. This guys motivation or his bosses directive is none of our business pro or con. The Emergency Managment, Emergency Call Center, Radio Manager and Information Security Officer qualified folks on this reflector know what the applicable regulations and DOJ requirements are and we sure don't need to hear about it from the what if experts... I'm beginning to wonder if someone just planted this topic to watch this reflector self-distruct, DUH! - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet On 1/4/2010 2:33 PM, wd8chl wrote: Security is also a big issue with trying to use the internet for something like this. Anyone with a little knowledge can hack into it and do whatever. Who needs to hack? All common VoIP protocols in use are sniffable and playable from 100% free tools like Wireshark. All that's required is a copy of the packets... piece of cake. We do it all the time for troubleshooting in the VoIP telco hardware vendor world. This whole plan probably also runs afoul of HIPPA regulations for Medical dispatch, once you start sending un-encrypted VoIP to a residential IP from the dispatch center, now that I think a little more about it. Nate WY0X
[Repeater-Builder] TFC-6030a Motorola receive module from Nucleus paging transmitter
I am looking for schmatic(s) and overlay for the tfc6030a rec module out of a nuc paging transmitter. So, I am looking for the DETAILED service manual for the nucleus paging transmitter, or the entire detailed manual. I have the block diagramed manual and need the detailed.. thanks y'all . Bill w4oo .
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Longshot - Duke Energy/Texas Eastern
Jeff DePolo wrote: Does anyone have any two-way or microwave engineering contacts at Duke Energy or Texas Eastern (pipeline)? (If my memory isn't failing me As I remember) N3LIF Roy Ed Kern worked for Texas Eastern as a radio/microwave technician. He is likely retired now. Ed's in Green County - a repeater owner, and a nice guy. I don't have any contact information other than the usual QRZ database. Along the same lines, does anyone know if they maintain their own microwave network or if they subcontract the maintenance out? As of 10 or 12 years ago - they utilized mostly in-house maintenance. That may have changed. If you can get a hold of Ed, he might be able to put you in contact with the folks in engineering. KR3P might have Ed's email address he can relay via private message? Kevin
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Service Monitor Input Protection
Jim, Good question! My new General Dynamics (Motorola) R2600D service monitor addressed that problem by equipping both the antenna input and duplex jacks with 1/16 ampere fast-blow fuses that are easily replaced using a 7/16 nut driver to unscrew the jack. Despite my lengthy experience with test equipment, and due diligence (whatever that is!), I did manage to key up a mobile radio while it was connected to the antenna jack. I was monitoring the RX LO signal and simply forgot where the power would go when I keyed the mike. Thankfully, the fuse blew instantly and protected the antenna circuit from damage. It only took a minute to replace that fuse (the manufacturer provided five spares- I wonder why?), and I was back in business. No doubt, that same fuse can be wired into older monitors without too much effort. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 2:30 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Service Monitor Input Protection Hello to the group. Knowing most of you have service monitors for the Repeater Builder Hobby, I wanted to pose the following question. What method do you use to protect the input of your service monitor from excessive RF Power input? I am referring to the input/output jack that is limited to 2.5 watts on MANY service monitors. I know I can use an attenuator, but that gets removed for sensitivity checks and may not get put back on. One suggestion is a RF Relay that would trip on say one watt and put the power to a dummy load. The problem is I have used one of the cheap circuits in the past and toasted transistors in a Pre-amp, before the relay reacted as the book said it should. However I know there are circuits in say the Mirage Amp that also has a Pre-Amp that is removed from the antenna during transmit, that works well. What are you doing to protect your monitor? Appreciate your thoughts. 73 JIM KA2AJH
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
I am new to repeater building I have a GE Master II VHF repeater does GE make or is there a mod to make the exciter do 35 watts so I would not have to use a PA which I do have, just trying to make things simple. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg K9GJN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
No. You need the appropriate power amplifier to get the desired output. The exciter makes less than one watt. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Greg Niles To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts I am new to repeater building I have a GE Master II VHF repeater does GE make or is there a mod to make the exciter do 35 watts so I would not have to use a PA which I do have, just trying to make things simple. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg K9GJN -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2602 - Release Date: 01/05/10 14:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
Thanks Chuck, that answers my qustion. Any other pointers would be appreciated. Greg K9GJN --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 2:45 AM No. You need the appropriate power amplifier to get the desired output. The exciter makes less than one watt. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Greg Niles To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts I am new to repeater building I have a GE Master II VHF repeater does GE make or is there a mod to make the exciter do 35 watts so I would not have to use a PA which I do have, just trying to make things simple. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg K9GJN No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2602 - Release Date: 01/05/10 14:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
Hi Greg, There is no Mod to make the exciter do 35 watts. Its nominal value is about 200 to 300 mw, but normally 250 mw. The way to get about 35 watts is to modify the PA itself. You can bypass the final stages of the PA and just use the first stage. There are many types and some may get you close just of the driver stage. But then again like I say, there are many types to look at that have different configurations. The first question is what is the output of the PA you have? We would need to see the type and give you some guidance from that point of what is the best option. Maybe even a picture or the part number of that PA would help. Best Regards Richard. From: Greg Niles k9...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 5, 2010 9:33:59 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts I am new to repeater building I have a GE Master II VHF repeater does GE make or is there a mod to make the exciter do 35 watts so I would not have to use a PA which I do have, just trying to make things simple. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg K9GJN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
You need to check this site for a wealth of info on repeater building. http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/ Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Greg Niles To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts Thanks Chuck, that answers my qustion. Any other pointers would be appreciated. Greg K9GJN --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 2:45 AM No. You need the appropriate power amplifier to get the desired output. The exciter makes less than one watt. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Greg Niles To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts I am new to repeater building I have a GE Master II VHF repeater does GE make or is there a mod to make the exciter do 35 watts so I would not have to use a PA which I do have, just trying to make things simple. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg K9GJN No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2602 - Release Date: 01/05/10 14:35:00 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2602 - Release Date: 01/05/10 14:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
Oh, and since you sound like you are new to this list, don't use LMR or 9913 type coax in duplex service. This topic comes up here every couple of weeks. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Greg Niles To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts Thanks Chuck, that answers my qustion. Any other pointers would be appreciated. Greg K9GJN --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 2:45 AM No. You need the appropriate power amplifier to get the desired output. The exciter makes less than one watt. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Greg Niles To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts I am new to repeater building I have a GE Master II VHF repeater does GE make or is there a mod to make the exciter do 35 watts so I would not have to use a PA which I do have, just trying to make things simple. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg K9GJN No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2602 - Release Date: 01/05/10 14:35:00 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2602 - Release Date: 01/05/10 14:35:00
[Repeater-Builder] something altogether different
-snip- Yes, there IS a secret plan to destroy the Internet by having side-conversations like those that normally happen in person when talking to other humans. It's been going on since the USENET days. (Maybe the conspiracy extends all the way back to BBS's and FidoNet but we're not sure. The original founders of The Plan are shrouded in mystery.) I'm sure The Plan will be effective soon and the world will come to an end. One of the major components of the plan is to get people to react with snide remarks, which makes it all work so very well! ;-) Hahaha... Nate WY0X -snip- Nothing gave me more pleasure than spending my long distance charges on sending fidmail packets from my BBS to the hub in st. Louis that were LADEN with snide remarks straying further and further off topic. Remember when there were cheaper rates at night for POTS? Chris Kb0wlf
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
Greg, You've come to the right place for information. First off, the exciter is just that- it is a very low-power (1/4 to one watt) signal source that is intended to drive any of several power amplifiers, from as low as 10 watts to more than 200 watts. It is not practical to modify the exciter; you simply add the appropriate PA to achieve the power output you want. If your repeater is completely stock please advise what the Combination Number is on the data plate. This will help the list members understand what you now have. Has this repeater been modified for Amateur 2m use already, or is it now on a commercial pair and you want to modify it for 2m operation? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Niles Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:34 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts I am new to repeater building. I have a GE Mastr II VHF repeater. Does GE make, or is there a mod to make, the exciter do 35 watts so I would not have to use a PA which I do have, just trying to make things simple? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg K9GJN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
I have read those very big topics, thanks Chuck Greg K9GJN --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:01 AM Oh, and since you sound like you are new to this list, don't use LMR or 9913 type coax in duplex service. This topic comes up here every couple of weeks. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Greg Niles To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts Thanks Chuck, that answers my qustion. Any other pointers would be appreciated. Greg K9GJN --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner. com wrote: From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner. com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 2:45 AM No. You need the appropriate power amplifier to get the desired output. The exciter makes less than one watt. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Greg Niles To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts I am new to repeater building I have a GE Master II VHF repeater does GE make or is there a mod to make the exciter do 35 watts so I would not have to use a PA which I do have, just trying to make things simple. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg K9GJN No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2602 - Release Date: 01/05/10 14:35:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2602 - Release Date: 01/05/10 14:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
Thanks for the reply Richard. I have the GE 110 watt PA I only antipate needing around 35 watts not going to build a power house just a locat repeater. I know I can detune the PA was just trying to cut out the PA for simplicity purposes if that is possible. Greg K9GJN --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Richard Fletcher rickfle...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Richard Fletcher rickfle...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 2:53 AM Hi Greg, There is no Mod to make the exciter do 35 watts. Its nominal value is about 200 to 300 mw, but normally 250 mw. The way to get about 35 watts is to modify the PA itself. You can bypass the final stages of the PA and just use the first stage. There are many types and some may get you close just of the driver stage. But then again like I say, there are many types to look at that have different configurations. The first question is what is the output of the PA you have? We would need to see the type and give you some guidance from that point of what is the best option. Maybe even a picture or the part number of that PA would help. Best Regards Richard. From: Greg Niles k9...@yahoo. com To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tue, January 5, 2010 9:33:59 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts I am new to repeater building I have a GE Master II VHF repeater does GE make or is there a mod to make the exciter do 35 watts so I would not have to use a PA which I do have, just trying to make things simple. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg K9GJN
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
Thanks Eric, its a commercial unit not yet modified what mods would you recommend I do not have a data plate but found the following numbers on the recieve of 19D416693G2 REV and x mitt PL1D4172G6I REV if that tells you anything. I am looking at the PSE-508-2 controler. I have the old ICOMS but they will need to be changed obviously. I have the 110 PA and a GE power supply also the 10 V control card. Thanks Greg K9GJN From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:15 AM Greg, You've come to the right place for information. First off, the exciter is just that- it is a very low-power (1/4 to one watt) signal source that is intended to drive any of several power amplifiers, from as low as 10 watts to more than 200 watts. It is not practical to modify the exciter; you simply add the appropriate PA to achieve the power output you want. If your repeater is completely stock please advise what the Combination Number is on the data plate. This will help the list members understand what you now have. Has this repeater been modified for Amateur 2m use already, or is it now on a commercial pair and you want to modify it for 2m operation? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Greg Niles Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:34 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts I am new to repeater building. I have a GE Mastr II VHF repeater. Does GE make, or is there a mod to make, the exciter do 35 watts so I would not have to use a PA which I do have, just trying to make things simple? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg K9GJN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet - just a personal experience
Just a personal experience with residential Internet: Northeast power blackout of 2003 The power went out. Our PCs and cable modem were on UPS. I brought the PCs down gracefully and waited. After a half an hour, I started my generator and booted the PCs. It was about an hour after the failure when the Comcast broadband and their cable TV vanished. No problem, I switched to my backup ISP with dial-up. I dialed and got their modem to answer and connect. No response other than the modem connecting. (Just months before, I dropped my Earthlink two-way satellite service because the Comcast was reliable. Sigh.) Cell phone service (Verizon) was very spotty with occasional connects. The POTS worked fine. Our local 800 MHz system was not fully implemented yet. Few hams were on the 2 meter repeaters. We used ham radio to coordinate generators for dialysis machines for patients, etc. The local city had four radio stations (population about 30,000). They got a couple on the air after a while, but they carried their satellite talk radio, music, and commercials. A decade earlier their news departments would have been competing to report; but they were acquired by one national company and now had all their automated studios in the same building. We kept listening to their news broadcasts, but there didn't seem to be local, just national network items. I hooked up an outside TV antenna (fringe) and was able to get Detroit TV stations for us to find out what was happening. I've heard that Comcast is now providing a local battery for their VOIP boxes. We had AC power for our cable modem and TVs; the problem was elsewhere in their system. At the end of the second day I was starting to siphon fuel from the vehicles to run the generator. I was glad we use the always above one-half tank rule. It was strange driving at night in the city with no stop lights and no street lights, and all the businesses were dark; quite disorienting. Traffic coming off the freeway was a big jam. One friend observed that, even though there was heavy traffic and he had to come to a full stop at every stop light for the cross traffic, it took him less time to drive across town then when the lights are working. Nate Duehr wrote: Or more accurately, lack of a backup/redundant transport medium beyond the data center. The last mile has always been the problem. Backhoe fade affects the PSTN just as much as it affects the IP network. The PSTN is slowly moving over to IP transport as their back office connectivity as well... but they're paying big bucks for redundant underground routes, hardware that can handle switching to the backup routes, people to test that these backups WORK on a regular basis, and to design it in the first place. A residential IP connection meets none of the requirements for anything like that, but it is typically just as vulnerable to backhoe fade as the POTS line. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II mods and parts
On Jan 5, 2010, at 8:22 PM, Greg Niles wrote: Thanks for the reply Richard. I have the GE 110 watt PA I only antipate needing around 35 watts not going to build a power house just a locat repeater. I know I can detune the PA was just trying to cut out the PA for simplicity purposes if that is possible. Greg K9GJN Greg, Do you want 35W of RF to the antenna AFTER the duplexer? You'll have to put in more than 35W to get 35W out to the antenna in a duplexed system, of course. Or are you really saying that you want 35W into the duplexer where you'll probably only have 10-15W at the antenna after that? (Okay that's an exaggeration but have you forgotten that a duplexer is relatively a very lossy device in your TX chain?) The 110W VHF MASTR II hooked into a properly designed and built antenna system, with low-loss hardline feeding the antenna (and usually backed off a bit from 110W... no need to run it flat out, but you can... they're rated for it), proper low-loss jumpers to the duplexer/antenna system, etc... usually yields just about the right amount of power to make a system balanced with 50W mobiles accessing it. Unless you're purposely trying to restrict the coverage area to where a modern 50W mobile with a typical modern sensitivity receiver can't hear the repeater very well where it can still access it, I'd leave the 110W PA on it. For a MASTR II, the stock .25uV sensitivity of the receiver (if you tune carefully and get factory spec out of it) will mean you usually need to do some work on the receive side (adding a very low noise pre-amp and appropriate large high-Q bandpass cavity in RF noisy environments...) to bring the receiver sensitivity up to where HT's can get into it pretty nicely in most of its coverage area in flat-land at 110W, and you'll get those HT's in fine in virtually ALL of it's coverage area if it's up high (mountain, really tall building, etc.) GE built it as a 110W repeater for a reason... think about the users at the time... relatively deaf trunk-mounted radios (made up of the EXACT same components as the repeater) in Public Safety vehicles with external antennas... also often running 110W non-continuous-duty... Anyway, to get back to your question... the UHF 100W PA is hackable where you can easily remove the driver stages and get a lower wattage PA - useful for links, etc... that you know don't need the power. But the VHF has a feedback circuit between the driver section and the first amplification section that must be dealt with to do a similar modification. Just run 'er flat out or up around 85-95W... also consider putting an isolator on it, especially if yours doesn't have the late-model Z-matcher in the Low-Pass-Filter near the PA's output. The VHF is especially sensitive to not being driven into a 50 ohm load and they tend to burn up when they're not. The factory Z-matcher was supposed to alleviate this, but their tuning instructions for the thing leave something to be desired. Easier/more effective to just put an isolator on the PA output with proper filtering again, eating some of your RF... so 110W starts to look just about right again... -- Nate Duehr, WY0X n...@natetech.com http://facebook.com/denverpilot http://twitter.com/denverpilot
[Repeater-Builder] Re: dispatch centers run through the internet
There is certainly a way to do this, though VOIP, while an option, you will have issues if there are outages. Of course, there can be outages of all types, that will effect everything, no matter what you set up. I am familiar with a large organization that operates just like you would like to. They have multiple dispatch locations. The phones are not 911 phones. This is a private, volunteer organization, and they have three emergency phone numbers. Each location has 3 phone lines (and numbers, I think all different, but you can check with your local POTS to see if you can have several phone lines with the same emergency numbers) They use POTS. All lines roll over to the next if the line is busy. When a new dispatcher comes on shift, they pull the lines, essentially, they dial the phone company number, and enter code/codes to have the calls forwarded to the dispatchers location phones. As for dispatching, that really depends on many factors, at least in my mind it does. What type of system are you using, repeater, simplex. You may even be able to use a tone remote over a POTS line to the radio system. Will you be paging units, and if so, what units? Do your firefighters carry plectrons or two way radios? How will/do you initate a call out? There are a lot of unknowns in your post. Now adays, while there is some difference of opinion regarding the technology and radios, MOTOTRBO might be a choice for a system. There are dispatching softwares that utilize a mobile/base radio to control the system and the individual units. And, you can have a data/command time slot, and an emergency time slot, in a single frequency (assuming you have/can get a frequency) Michael --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jed Barton j...@... wrote: Hey guys, I am working on a project and am wondering if anyone has done this. Here's the proposal, to setup a dispatch center for an FD, where the dispatchers can sit at home and work the entire thing. This is not a very busy department, that's why they thought it would be good to do it. I've done a lot of research, and it can certainly be done. This obviously brings up a lot of debate for a number of reasons. In looking at it though, the relyability of the net is very good compared to a verizon phone line. Curious if anyone has done something like this before. For the phone system, we'reusing a virtual phone system that has proven relyability. Thanks, Jed
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: dispatch centers run through the internet
Hey Mike, Glad someone sees the light. Email me privately, and i will tell you about it. Thanks, Jed -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike.yellin Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:03 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: dispatch centers run through the internet There is certainly a way to do this, though VOIP, while an option, you will have issues if there are outages. Of course, there can be outages of all types, that will effect everything, no matter what you set up. I am familiar with a large organization that operates just like you would like to. They have multiple dispatch locations. The phones are not 911 phones. This is a private, volunteer organization, and they have three emergency phone numbers. Each location has 3 phone lines (and numbers, I think all different, but you can check with your local POTS to see if you can have several phone lines with the same emergency numbers) They use POTS. All lines roll over to the next if the line is busy. When a new dispatcher comes on shift, they pull the lines, essentially, they dial the phone company number, and enter code/codes to have the calls forwarded to the dispatchers location phones. As for dispatching, that really depends on many factors, at least in my mind it does. What type of system are you using, repeater, simplex. You may even be able to use a tone remote over a POTS line to the radio system. Will you be paging units, and if so, what units? Do your firefighters carry plectrons or two way radios? How will/do you initate a call out? There are a lot of unknowns in your post. Now adays, while there is some difference of opinion regarding the technology and radios, MOTOTRBO might be a choice for a system. There are dispatching softwares that utilize a mobile/base radio to control the system and the individual units. And, you can have a data/command time slot, and an emergency time slot, in a single frequency (assuming you have/can get a frequency) Michael --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Jed Barton j...@... wrote: Hey guys, I am working on a project and am wondering if anyone has done this. Here's the proposal, to setup a dispatch center for an FD, where the dispatchers can sit at home and work the entire thing. This is not a very busy department, that's why they thought it would be good to do it. I've done a lot of research, and it can certainly be done. This obviously brings up a lot of debate for a number of reasons. In looking at it though, the relyability of the net is very good compared to a verizon phone line. Curious if anyone has done something like this before. For the phone system, we'reusing a virtual phone system that has proven relyability. Thanks, Jed
[Repeater-Builder] Repeater Battery Question
It is time for me to start thinking about new batteries. I have a solar repeater site with 210 watts charging two CAT 153-5720 batteries. These were one year old when they were removed from a commercial repeater site and then donated to my repeater. My repeater site is not in a building, it is on a mountain top in metal cabinets in the weather. My question is: What is the best or one of the better batteries out there for a setup like I have? Thank you for your replies. Rod kc7vqr
[Repeater-Builder] Re: dispatch centers run through the internet
I believe many of the issues have been addressed. The key is network connectivity and availability. When determining network connectivity you need to be able to subtract one from the number of paths and still have a positive number. One circuit does not make a network. Maybe two. Next is calculating reliability. First start with what you want it to be. Now ask your network providers or equipment suppliers to provide these numbers. If the question cannot be answered with a number. You need to be careful about using this vendor or service provider. Now, as far a protocol of choice, are we talking a replacement for an old Fire Bar or bridge, or are we talking a PSAP. If we are talking a PSAP, the network provider may make this a real easy exercise in that you must be able to talk to the E911 tandem. Keep in mind that due to liability issues, in the past, audible ringing was returned from the PSAP. I expect that this is still the case. When people started suing when no one responded to the emergency, or answered the call. The phone company attorneys asked if the person heard audible ringing, if the answer was yes the telephone network had done its job. Sue the PSAP provider. One final thing to keep in mind is that when you buy the circuits from the telephone company or the 911 network provider, there is usually a special way of tracking all the circuits so that where possible no two circuits wind up in the same cable. Further, as the carrier or provider evolve their network, they maintain the physical separation of redundant circuits. Of course, if you want something done right, periodically auditing how the facility providers provide the circuit should be done. This may be like pushing a rope, but this information should be available.
