Re: [SC-L] Announcing LAMN: Legion Against Meaningless certificatioNs

2009-03-22 Thread Bret Watson
Which is why I list that I have _had_ a CISSP, but am currently 
non-financial.. It was too damn easy to pass and too damn hard to 
keep up with the CPE point entry...

:) I was LAMN member #8 :) Best number :)

Cheers

Bret



At 03:38 PM 21/03/2009, Joe Teff wrote:
I notice certs like CISSP when hiring. It says the person has a 
basic understanding of all IS security areas. Nothing more. If 
someone can't pass the CISSP then I have to wonder why.

-Original Message-
From: Paco Hope p...@cigital.com
To: SC-L@securecoding.org SC-L@securecoding.org
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:36:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [SC-L] Announcing LAMN: Legion Against Meaningless certificatioNs

On 3/18/09 5:29 PM, Jeremy Epstein jeremy.j.epst...@gmail.com wrote:

  If you don't have a CISSP, CISM, MCSE, or EIEIO - and you're proud of it

...then I'd say you have an overly simplistic view of the world.

Anyone who believes that a credential automatically conveys some magical
knowledge that you didn't have before is just as overly-simplistic as
someone who disparages all credentials equally. It just isn't a black and
white world.

Paco
--
Paco Hope, CISSP, CSSLP
Technical Manager, Cigital, Inc
http://www.cigital.com/http://www.cigital.com/ ? +1.703.585.7868
Software Confidence. Achieved.


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Re: [SC-L] Announcing LAMN: Legion Against Meaningless certificatioNs

2009-03-22 Thread Benjamin Tomhave
fwiw, I've interviewed my fair share of CISSPs who didn't have a basic
understanding of infosec... with the boot camps these days, people don't
learn anything... they cram for 1-2 wks, shoving everything into
short-term rote memory, and then they take the test and promptly forget
everything... this is especially true since the feds began mandating
CISSPs for contractors... at least here in the DC metro, the pool of
candidates has become extremely watered down over the last 5 or so years...

Joe Teff wrote:
 I notice certs like CISSP when hiring. It says the person has a basic
 understanding of all IS security areas. Nothing more. If someone can't
 pass the CISSP then I have to wonder why.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Paco Hope p...@cigital.com
 To: SC-L@securecoding.org SC-L@securecoding.org
 Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:36:45 -0400
 Subject: Re: [SC-L] Announcing LAMN: Legion Against Meaningless
 certificatioNs
 
 On 3/18/09 5:29 PM, Jeremy Epstein jeremy.j.epst...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  If you don't have a CISSP, CISM, MCSE, or EIEIO - and you're proud
 of it
 
 ...then I'd say you have an overly simplistic view of the world.
 
 Anyone who believes that a credential automatically conveys some magical
 knowledge that you didn't have before is just as overly-simplistic as
 someone who disparages all credentials equally. It just isn't a
 black and
 white world.
 
 Paco
 -- 
 Paco Hope, CISSP, CSSLP
 Technical Manager, Cigital, Inc
 http://www.cigital.com/ ? +1.703.585.7868
 Software Confidence. Achieved.
 
 
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 SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC
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-- 
Benjamin Tomhave, MS, CISSP
fal...@secureconsulting.net
LI: http://www.linkedin.com/in/btomhave
Blog: http://www.secureconsulting.net/
Photos: http://photos.secureconsulting.net/
Web: http://falcon.secureconsulting.net/

[ Random Quote: ]
I think there should be something in science called the 'reindeer
effect.' I don't know what it would be, but I think it'd be good to hear
someone say, 'Gentlemen, what we have here is a terrifying example of
the reindeer effect.'
Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy
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Re: [SC-L] BSIMM: Confessions of a Software SecurityAlchemist(informIT)

2009-03-22 Thread Jim Manico
Hey John,

I like where your head is at - great list.

Regarding:

 Builds adaptors so that bugs are automatically entered in tracking systems

Does the industry have:

1) A standard schema for findings, root causes, vulnerabilities, etc, and 
the inter-relation of these key terms (and others?)
2) Standardized API's for allowing different risk systems for correlate this 
data?

Or is it, right now, mostly proprietary glue? Curious...

Also, how do you build adaptors so that manual processes are automatically 
entered in a tracking system? Are you just talking about content management 
ststems to make it easy to manual reviewers to enter data into rosk 
mangement software?

Anyhow, I like where your head is at and it definately got me thinking.

 - Jim

- Original Message - 
From: Tom Brennan - OWASP t...@owasp.org
To: John Steven jste...@cigital.com; sc-l-boun...@securecoding.org; 
Benjamin Tomhave list-s...@secureconsulting.net; Secure Code 
MailingList SC-L@securecoding.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [SC-L] BSIMM: Confessions of a Software 
SecurityAlchemist(informIT)


 John Stevens for Cyber Czar!

 I have Elect J.Stevens bumper stickers printing, I retooled my Free 
 Kevin sticker press.

 Well stated ;) have a great weekend!

 -Original Message-
 From: John Steven jste...@cigital.com

 Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:35:01
 To: Benjamin Tomhavelist-s...@secureconsulting.net; Secure Code 
 MailingListSC-L@securecoding.org
 Subject: Re: [SC-L] BSIMM: Confessions of a Software Security Alchemist
 (informIT)


 Tom, Ben, All,

 I thought I'd offer more specifics in an attempt to clarify. I train 
 people here to argue your position Ben: security vulnerabilities don't 
 count unless they affect development.   To this end, we've specifically 
 had success with the following approaches:

 [Integrate Assessment Practices]
[What?]
 Wrap the assessment activities (both tool-based and manual techniques) in 
 a process that:
* Normalizes findings under a common reporting vocabulary and 
 demonstrates impact
* Include SAST, DAST, scanning, manual, out-sourced,  ALL findings 
 producers in this framework
* Anchors findings in either a developmental root cause or other 
 software artifact:
* Use Case, reqs, design, spec, etc.
* Builds adaptors so that bugs are automatically entered in tracking 
 systems
* Adaptors should include both tool-based and manual findings
* Calculates impact with an agreed-upon mechanism that rates security 
 risk with other  factors:
* Functional release criteria
* Other non-security non-functional requirements

[Realistic?]
 I believe so. Cigital's more junior consultants work on these very tasks, 
 and they don't require an early-adopter to fund or agree to them.  There's 
 plenty of tooling out there to help with the adapters and plenty of 
 presentations/papers on risk (http://www.riskanalys.is), normalizing 
 findings ( http://cwe.mitre.org/.) , and assessment methodology 
 (http://www.cigital.com/papers/download/j15bsi.pdf).

[Panacea?]
 No. I've done research and consulting in functional testing. If you think 
 security is powerless against development, try spending a few years in a 
 tester's shoes! Functionality may be king for development and PMs, but 
 I've found that functional testing has little to no power. While a lack of 
 features may prevent software from going out the door, very rarely do I 
 find that functional testing can implement an effective go/no-go gate 
 from their seat in the org. That's why testing efforts seek muscle from 
 their friend Security (and its distant cousins under quality Load and 
 Performance) to stop releases from going out the door.

 There's no reason NOT to integrate with testing efforts, reporting, and 
 groups: we should. There's every reason security should adhere to the same 
 interface everyone else does with developers (let them produce code and 
 let them consume bugs)... I think the steps I outlined under 'what' bring 
 us closer. I enjoyed Guy's book, but I don't think we need to (or can 
 expect to) flip organizational precedent and behavior on its head to make 
 progress.

 [Steering]
 The above scenario  doesn't allow explicitly for two key input/outputs 
 from the software security ecosystem:


 1.  Handling ultra-high-priority issues in real time
 2.  Adjusting and evolving to changing threat landscapes

 I've long suggested establishing a steering committee for this.

[What?]
 Establish a steering committee on which a software security, dev, 
 architecture, operations, and corporate risk sit. These folk should manage 
 the risk-model, scoring, security standards that drive the assessment 
 verification standard, and the definition of both short-term and 
 longer-term mitigating strategies. I'd argue that you'd like Industry 
 representation too. That organization could come in written form (like the 
 Top N lists) or in 

Re: [SC-L] Supply Chain Resiliency Project Assistance

2009-03-22 Thread Gary McGraw
hi sc-l,

For what it's worth, I am involved in the project with jmr...as is Sammy 
Migues.  jmr was our BSIMM participant from DTCC.  Their software security 
initiative is most impressive.

gem


On 3/22/09 9:08 AM, Mason Brown mbr...@sans.org wrote:


Jim Routh, CISO at Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation is leading a
project for the Financial Services ISAC.  There is a lot of knowledge on
this list and I was hoping you might be willing to offer your thoughts.
Below is the request from Jim.  If you have thoughts or data and could
share it, I'll be happy to collate and send back to the list or to anyone
that requests.  After he presents it to the FS-ISAC in May, the complete
information will be made public.

Important project if your organization uses contractors and outsourcers to
design, build or deploy important applications. Jim Routh, CISO at
Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation (and one of the top CISOs in
implementing application security), leads a broad industry team
identifying leading practices in improving supply chain resiliency --
specifically in the area of procurement for outsourcing software
development and services. They have asked for your help in finding sources
of information in the public domain and/or descriptions of a practice or
control that you have used that actually mitigates one or
more risks. If you have experience or knowledge of security controls and
practices specific to the outsourcing of application development through
service providers please send a note to Mason Brown at mbr...@sans.org.
This can include things like sample contract language or URLs
information/resources you have seen or used. We will provide a summary of
the information to anyone who contributes or expresses and interest in
seeing the results.


***
Action Required:

Give some thought to helpful information on security controls and
practices specific to the outsourcing of application development work
through service providers that will help improve the resiliency of the
supply chain that may be in two categories:

1. Source information in the public domain with reference information on
where to find it (eg: url)
2. Description of a practice/control along with a summary of the risks
mitigated

We are striving to create a summary of practices/controls for
consideration for those organizations interested in significantly
increasing their supply chain resiliency and mitigate the risk of sabotage
of supply chain sources. This information along with the survey results
will provide the information security professional with a source of
information enabling him/her to determine the appropriate
practices/controls for his/her organization.



Mason Brown, Director
SANS Institute (www.sans.org)
865-692-0978 (w)


Don't miss SANSFIRE 2009 with the Internet Storm Center! June 13-22 in
Baltimore, MD http://www.sans.org/info/39248

SANS courses are hands-down the best security courses in the industry. -
Scott Hiltis, Bruce Power

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Re: [SC-L] Questions asked on job interview for application security/penetration testing job

2009-03-22 Thread Arian J. Evans
On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Matt Parsons mparsons1...@gmail.com wrote:

 I was asked the following questions on a job phone interview and wondered
 what the proper answers were.   I was told their answers after the
 interview. I was also told that the answers to these questions were one or
 two word words.  In the beginning of next week I will post what they told me
 were the proper answers.   Any references would be greatly appreciated.

Looks simple enough. Were there tricks to it? Some companies play
games with these type of interviews. (Google)

I empathize with brevity. Usually when people ramble too long in
interviews they don't know what they are talking about (and are extra
nervous because of this).

So what are the word answers?


 1.  What are the security functions of SSL?

Transport layer security. Asymmetric public key, symmetric private
key, blah blah


 2.  What is a 0 by 90 bytes error.

Error? 0x90 is NOP. A bunch of them make a good sled.


 3.  What is a digital signature, Not what it is?

Authentication


 4.  What is the problem of having a predictable sequence of bits in TCP/IP?

Session Prediction (leads to etc. etc.)


 5.  What is heap memory?

Pooled memory dynamically allocated, no fixed-life


 6.  What is a system call?

Software call to underlying OS function ( FileOpen())


 7.  what is two factor authentication?

Two of something you have, know, or are



-- 
Arian Evans

Let me issue and control a nation's money, and I care not who writes its laws

--Mayer Amchel Rothschild

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Re: [SC-L] Supply Chain Resiliency Project Assistance

2009-03-22 Thread Gadi Evron
On Sun, 22 Mar 2009, Gary McGraw wrote:
 hi sc-l,

 For what it's worth, I am involved in the project with jmr...as is Sammy 
 Migues.  jmr was our BSIMM participant from DTCC.  Their software security 
 initiative is most impressive.

I don't know much TOO much about supply chain issues, but I have to admit 
that the lecture i heard on the subject by Marcus Sachs was highly 
interesting and opened my eyes.

Blessed initiative.

Gadi.

 gem


 On 3/22/09 9:08 AM, Mason Brown mbr...@sans.org wrote:


 Jim Routh, CISO at Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation is leading a
 project for the Financial Services ISAC.  There is a lot of knowledge on
 this list and I was hoping you might be willing to offer your thoughts.
 Below is the request from Jim.  If you have thoughts or data and could
 share it, I'll be happy to collate and send back to the list or to anyone
 that requests.  After he presents it to the FS-ISAC in May, the complete
 information will be made public.

 Important project if your organization uses contractors and outsourcers to
 design, build or deploy important applications. Jim Routh, CISO at
 Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation (and one of the top CISOs in
 implementing application security), leads a broad industry team
 identifying leading practices in improving supply chain resiliency --
 specifically in the area of procurement for outsourcing software
 development and services. They have asked for your help in finding sources
 of information in the public domain and/or descriptions of a practice or
 control that you have used that actually mitigates one or
 more risks. If you have experience or knowledge of security controls and
 practices specific to the outsourcing of application development through
 service providers please send a note to Mason Brown at mbr...@sans.org.
 This can include things like sample contract language or URLs
 information/resources you have seen or used. We will provide a summary of
 the information to anyone who contributes or expresses and interest in
 seeing the results.


 ***
 Action Required:

 Give some thought to helpful information on security controls and
 practices specific to the outsourcing of application development work
 through service providers that will help improve the resiliency of the
 supply chain that may be in two categories:

 1. Source information in the public domain with reference information on
 where to find it (eg: url)
 2. Description of a practice/control along with a summary of the risks
 mitigated

 We are striving to create a summary of practices/controls for
 consideration for those organizations interested in significantly
 increasing their supply chain resiliency and mitigate the risk of sabotage
 of supply chain sources. This information along with the survey results
 will provide the information security professional with a source of
 information enabling him/her to determine the appropriate
 practices/controls for his/her organization.



 Mason Brown, Director
 SANS Institute (www.sans.org)
 865-692-0978 (w)


 Don't miss SANSFIRE 2009 with the Internet Storm Center! June 13-22 in
 Baltimore, MD http://www.sans.org/info/39248

 SANS courses are hands-down the best security courses in the industry. -
 Scott Hiltis, Bruce Power

 ___
 Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org
 List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l
 List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php
 SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com)
 as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community.
 ___


 ___
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 ___

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Re: [SC-L] Announcing LAMN: Legion Against Meaningless certificatioNs

2009-03-22 Thread Prasad Shenoy
Great idea but why would you say CISSP is meaningless or MCSE is
meaningless? Certifications are like technology. They have a place where
they fit. CISSP became so popular and prolific because of the vast field of
coverage (10 domains) that a certified practitioner had to study,
understand, relate to and practice if given a situation.

I am strongly against any certification that touts that you would be able to
change the world for good. As silly as it might sound, there are quite a
handful of these. On the other hand, companies like CISCO and Microsoft
offer certification that allow professional to get certified and
demonstrate their ability to understand and take over the responsibility of
the said position that the certificate applies to.

Now, if you make a case against certifications just because it has become so
easy to cram overnight and get certified in the morning, then that's not
justice. There are 2 extremes to the spectrum and you see only 1. It's like
giving the entire security industry (professionals with certifications
mostly) becuase of a few (thousand) individuals who don't prove to be laible
candidates to have obtained that certification. You can compare it to how
the world panned out the meaning of the holy word Hacker to what it is
today.

Prasad

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Jeremy Epstein
jeremy.j.epst...@gmail.comwrote:

 Colleagues,

 I'm pleased to announce the creation of LAMN, the Legion Against
 Meaningless certificatioNs.  If you don't have a CISSP, CISM, MCSE, or EIEIO
 - and you're proud of it - this group is for you.

 You can join LAMN on LinkedIn by searching in the groups area.  Unlike so
 many other certifications, LAMN doesn't charge fees, require outrageously
 overpriced exams, or demand check-the-box continuing education.

 Hope to see many people joining this group - and feel free to pass this
 along!
 --Jeremy

 P.S. After you join the group, you can proudly write your name John Doe,
 LAMN - which conveniently also stands for Letters After My Name.  I can't
 recall who suggested the term to me, but would be happy to give credit if
 someone wants to step forward and claim credit.
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-- 
Thought for the day -
Emails can hurt feelings. If this one did, please ignore your feelings.
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Re: [SC-L] Supply Chain Resiliency Project Assistance

2009-03-22 Thread Sammy Migues
Hello everyone,

To reinforce Mason's request, we're looking for any collection of controls 
(contractual, technical, people, process, etc.) that organizations should 
request, demand, cajole, enforce, etc. when out-sourcing software development 
to ensure the required software security in the resulting deliverable. For 
the purposes of this exercise, you can define controls and software 
security as broadly as you like and we'll sort it out later.

Our next meeting with Jim is Tuesday afternoon and any pointers to public 
information, or copies of shareable non-public information, you can provide 
will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

--Sammy.

-Original Message-
From: sc-l-boun...@securecoding.org [mailto:sc-l-boun...@securecoding.org] On 
Behalf Of Mason Brown
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:09 AM
To: 'Secure Code Mailing List'
Subject: [SC-L] Supply Chain Resiliency Project Assistance

 
Jim Routh, CISO at Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation is leading a
project for the Financial Services ISAC.  There is a lot of knowledge on
this list and I was hoping you might be willing to offer your thoughts.
Below is the request from Jim.  If you have thoughts or data and could
share it, I'll be happy to collate and send back to the list or to anyone
that requests.  After he presents it to the FS-ISAC in May, the complete
information will be made public.

Important project if your organization uses contractors and outsourcers to
design, build or deploy important applications. Jim Routh, CISO at
Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation (and one of the top CISOs in
implementing application security), leads a broad industry team
identifying leading practices in improving supply chain resiliency --
specifically in the area of procurement for outsourcing software
development and services. They have asked for your help in finding sources
of information in the public domain and/or descriptions of a practice or
control that you have used that actually mitigates one or
more risks. If you have experience or knowledge of security controls and
practices specific to the outsourcing of application development through
service providers please send a note to Mason Brown at mbr...@sans.org.
This can include things like sample contract language or URLs
information/resources you have seen or used. We will provide a summary of
the information to anyone who contributes or expresses and interest in
seeing the results.


***
Action Required: 

Give some thought to helpful information on security controls and
practices specific to the outsourcing of application development work
through service providers that will help improve the resiliency of the
supply chain that may be in two categories: 

1. Source information in the public domain with reference information on
where to find it (eg: url) 
2. Description of a practice/control along with a summary of the risks
mitigated

We are striving to create a summary of practices/controls for
consideration for those organizations interested in significantly
increasing their supply chain resiliency and mitigate the risk of sabotage
of supply chain sources. This information along with the survey results
will provide the information security professional with a source of
information enabling him/her to determine the appropriate
practices/controls for his/her organization. 



Mason Brown, Director
SANS Institute (www.sans.org)
865-692-0978 (w)
 

Don't miss SANSFIRE 2009 with the Internet Storm Center! June 13-22 in
Baltimore, MD http://www.sans.org/info/39248 

SANS courses are hands-down the best security courses in the industry. -
Scott Hiltis, Bruce Power

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___

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Re: [SC-L] Questions asked on job interview for application security/penetration testing job

2009-03-22 Thread Matt Parsons
Here are the answers that I was given for the following questions by a
non-technical recruiter.

 

 

1.  What are the security functions of SSL?  Encryption and authentication 

2.  What is a 0 by 90 bytes error. Buffer over flow. 

3.  What is a digital signature, Not what it is?  The senders message is
encrypted with a sender's private key and attached like a signature to an
encrypted message to ensure that the person is who he claims to be. The
recipient uses the sender's public key to decrypt the signature.

4.  What is the problem of having a predictable sequence of bits in TCP/IP?
TCP/IP session hijacking  I also thought it was man in the middle attack.  

5.  What is heap memory? A heap memory pool is an internal memory pool
created at start-up that tasks use to dynamically allocate memory as needed.

6.  What is a system call?  Call from the operating system. 

7.  what is two factor authentication?  Use of something you know, something
you have, something you are.   

 

Thanks

Matt Parsons 

Matt Parsons, CISSP

 

 

 

 

From: Matt Parsons [mailto:mparsons1...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 4:44 PM
To: 'Secure Code Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Questions asked on job interview for application
security/penetration testing job

 

Ladies and gentlemen,

I was asked the following questions on a job phone interview and wondered
what the proper answers were.   I was told their answers after the
interview. I was also told that the answers to these questions were one or
two word words.  In the beginning of next week I will post what they told me
were the proper answers.   Any references would be greatly appreciated.  

 

 

1.  What are the security functions of SSL?

2.  What is a 0 by 90 bytes error.

3.  What is a digital signature, Not what it is?  

4.  What is the problem of having a predictable sequence of bits in TCP/IP?

5.  What is heap memory?

6.  What is a system call?  

7.  what is two factor authentication?  

 

 

 

 

Thanks

Matt 



 

Matt Parsons, CISSP

Parsons Software Security Consulting, LLC

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