[scots-l] Re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
Toby Rider wrote: ...the only opinions that matter to me are those of people who actually know about the music and have a clue. If Charlie Gore or Nigel Gatherer says something, I listen carefully... I've just managed to unearth twenty missing emails from Scot-L, so I'm seeing them for the first time. Thanks for the enormous compliment, Toby, but I'm not convinced it's deserved. Perhaps in my favour is that I'm passionate about Scottish music, and concerned about its teaching, its direction and its future. I believe this list is a very good - and potentially great - contribution to the cause and you should be forever feted for its creation. -- Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/ Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
John Chambers wrote: For that matter, a tune that goes over quite well in waltz tempo is Niel Gow's Lament for the Death of His Second Wife. Now, this is obviously a bit of sacrilege, dancing on her grave as it were. But it's a very effective waltz. There was a film released five or six years ago, 'Margaret's Museum', set around Sydney, Cape Breton in the '20s, which featured a scene at a dance in the town. The musicians were Kyle and Seamus MacNeill (from the Barra MacNeills) and the tune they played for the protagonists to waltz to was 'Niel Gow's Lament...' The film is well worth seeing by the way - the unlikely lead is Helena Bonham Carter, who puts in an excellent performance, spot on CB accent and all. David Francis Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
There was a film released five or six years ago, 'Margaret's Museum', set around Sydney, Cape Breton in the '20s, which featured a scene at a dance in the town. That was a bizarre, depressing little film, but a good one. Especially the ending! -- Toby Rider ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) He either fears his fate too much, Or his deserts are small, That puts it not unto the touch To win or lose it all. - James Graham, Marquis of Montrose Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
Thanks for the tunes--which worked in the Convert-a-Matic, BTW. CliffA Anyway, this was the most-remarked-on medley of the evening. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: The whole idea of written rules for tune tempo is totally frightening.. What next? Are they going to have rules for ornamentation as well? That's some serious rubbish. Almost falls down to the level of Scottish fiddling contests, or Highland piping contests. Since these rules are *specifically* for Scottish harping contests, I guess it is at the level of the fiddling and piping contests. IMHO making music, especially traditional music is not and should not be made into an athletic event or a contest. That's one opinion. I know people who love solo accordian, pipe bands, piobaireachd, or fiddles. I also know people who hate solo accordian, pipe bands, piobaireachd, or fiddles. Just because it doesn't fit your tastes doesn't make it an invalid pursuit or an invalid musical expression. They should be thought of as different types of endeavors. Most of the people I know involved with Scottish harping and Scottish harping competitions do consider contests very different from other playing. I just can't see how making rules does anything but damage the health of the tradition. If these rules were for anything other than competition, then I'd agree with you. In a competition, though, the competitors have to know the basis of judging. Shoot, the judges have to know the basis of judging. Without this basis, you might as well flip a coin to determine competition results. (I'm aware that some people think competition itself damages the tradition. That's a whole can of figs I'm not going to open right now.) Wayne Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: One organization here in the States advertises the actual tempo of reels at 130-140 per half note/minim. Ignoring the fact that these settings are not on the standard metronome, is that lightening fast or what? Can our fiddlers really play reels that fast? Can people dance that fast?? I'm pretty sure this organization is the Scottish Harp Society of America. I checked SHSA's online rules and found that the complete rules listed the tempo range at 130-140. However, the abridged rules (which are supposed to be more competitor-friendly) listed the range as 90-130. I checked with SHSA's competition committee and they feel the 90-130 tempo range should be used, *not* the 130-140 range. They were at a loss as to where the higher range came from, as well. The only thing that makes sense is that I, as the SHSA's website person, botched the editing of the text rules into HTML. Mea culpa. I don't know how this happened, but I apologize to you Cynthia (and anyone else bothered by the faster tempos) for any heartache and finger-stress I caused you in trying to match these higher tempos. Wayne Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
Toby Rider wrote: I very much like the statement that John Chambers and others made about this subject, you have to be sensitive to who, what and where you are playing for. I'm glad that you said this - I've been meaning to respond to this thread ... As I have both played for and danced at events, I have found this discussion very informative and helpful. In particular, I was very impressed with John's response, especially this comment: One thing that I like to point out to newcomers to this and other kinds of dance is that there's an interesting pattern to the speed: When playing for novices, you will need to play a bit slowly at first, and speed up as they learn the dances. But when playing for a crowd of experienced dancers, they will want you to slow down. This is, contrary to common opinion, not an age-related thing. But the more advanced dancers have the steps and the balance, and they'll like the music slower so they can do things with the dance. (agreed - especially for hornpipes!!) I thought that this showed a great deal of 'insight', understanding and sensitivity to both players' and dancers' needs ... if followed, this advice would no doubt create a great synergy between dancers and players. I couldn't help thinking, as I read the note, that any dance where the musicians projected this kind of knowledgeable, yet seemingly easy-going and accommodating attitude, would be a really positive, rewarding, fun event for all involved - players and dancers alike. Thanks for the info so far, everyone. Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
Wayne Morrison wrote: I don't know how this happened, but I apologize to you Cynthia (and anyone else bothered by the faster tempos) for any heartache and finger-stress I caused you in trying to match these higher tempos. It's even worse for guitarists where dance tempos can pretty much destroy the chance of expression unless you resort to flatpick melody playing against a rythmic chord accompaniment. It's not especially difficult to play fast, and some classical pieces are extremely fast - but NOT on the whole for the entire melody (more fast in the way that bits of Mozart or Bach can be fast - the melody threads itself into a pattern of alternating notes or arpeggios). And if I want to play that sort of fast I immediately pick up a nylon string guitar, too, not a steel string. I find it funny sometimes that dancers will completely fail to identify a tune when played at an entirely different tempo. A while ago I played 'The Birks of Invermay' from Bremner's 1758 guittar tutor - where it is written without much 'snap', and for an instrument which is best played delicately and with use of sustain. A Scottish country dancer friend liked it and asked what it was - after I told him, he immediately recognised it, but said playing at such a slow speed had hidden the tune from him. To me, the slow speed brings out the beauty of the tune (which has a very song-like melody and is no doubt a song too) and the dance tempo just makes it sound like everything else! David Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
David Kilpatrick writes:
| ... A Scottish country dancer friend
| liked it and asked what it was - after I told him, he immediately
| recognised it, but said playing at such a slow speed had hidden the tune
| from him. To me, the slow speed brings out the beauty of the tune (which
| has a very song-like melody and is no doubt a song too) and the dance
| tempo just makes it sound like everything else!
This is indeed a problem with playing for dancing. The
tempo is determined by the dance, and you really have to
honor it. If there are no dancers, you are a lot freer to
play with the tempo, vary it, etc.
A fair number of the SCD strathspey dances have standard
tunes that are really slow airs. For dancing, of course,
you have to play them in a strict tempo. They don't come
out sounding like slow airs, but they don't sound like real
strathspeys, either. It does add variety to the dance
program.
For that matter, a tune that goes over quite well in waltz
tempo is Niel Gow's Lament for the Death of His Second
Wife. Now, this is obviously a bit of sacrilege, dancing on
her grave as it were. But it's a very effective waltz. And
then, when people ask you what that beautiful waltz tune
was, you tell them, and they get this confused look on
their face ...
Another interesting experiment a bunch of us tried at this
year's local Hogmanay dance (in Concord, Mass.), was the
following medley. You might note one tune that isn't
exactly a traditional Scottish air. But in fact it worked
well. Some of the dancers were singing along, and a number
had obvious grins on their faces. There were also a couple
who asked us whether that was a Beatles tune. Not quite.
Possibly the most interesting aspect was that most of the
remarks were about the fourth, minor tune. I don't think
any of the dancers had heard it before, and they really
seemed to notice it.
It did turn out to be good that we had several rehearsals;
the third tune lacks a downbeat, and we learned that the
accompaniment had to come in really strong to keep the beat
going. Anyway, this was the most-remarked-on medley of the
evening.
X: 0
T: Miss Gibson's Strathspey
T: 8x32S3
O: RSCDS Leaflet
K: A
X: 1
P: The Music o' Spey
C: J.S.Skinner
R: air, strathspey
Z: John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
N: Scottish Violinist p.35; Hardie p.55; BSFC II-3; Caledonian Companion, p.49.
N: The Fiddle Music of Scotland, James Hunter, #36.
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: A
[| E2 \
| Ac2 BA E2 E2 | DFE FA E7E2 FG | AA2 A2 F#mA2 A2 | BmB4 E7e2 E2 |
| Ac2 BA E2 E2 | DFE FA E7E2 FG | AA2 A2 E7B2 e2 | AA6 |]
[| E2 \
| E7d2 dc B2 E2 | Ae2 ed c2 de | Df2 e2 d2 c2 | E7c4 {dc}B2 ed |
| Ac2 BA E2 E2 | DFE FA E7E2 FG | AA2 A2 E7B2 e2 | AA6 |]
X: 2
P: Annie Laurie
O: Trad
R: air
M: C
L: 1/8
K: D
A7FE \
| DD2 D2 d3 c | Gc B3- B2 B2 |1 DA2 F2 BmF2 ED | EmE4- A7E2 FE \
:|2 DA2 F2 A7F3 E | DD6 A7A2 ||
|| Dd2 d2 A7e3 e | Df6 A7A2 | Bmd2 d2 Eme3 e | F#7f6 fe \
| Gd3 c Bc dB | DA2 F2- BmF2 FE | GDd- dF A7F3 E | DD6 |]
X: 3
P: As Tears Go By
C: Sir Michael Jagger, Keith Richards
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: G
|: Gz2G2 A2B2 | AA2A2 E2G2 | CG4- GEG2 | DF8 \
| Gz2G2 A2B2 | AA3A E2G2 | CG4- GEG2 | DF8 |
|1 Cz2cc c2B2 | DA3A GA3 | Gz2B2 B2A2 | EmG E7 \
| Cz2e2 e2e2 | e3E F2G2 | DA4- AGAG | F4 z4 :|
|2 Cz2cc c2B2 | DA3A GA3 | Gz2B2 B2AG | EmB3B AG3 \
| Cz2e2 e2e2 | e3E F2G2 | DA4- AGAG | F4 z4 |]
X: 4
P: Back to the Hills
N: Dedicated to Tom Fraser
C: J.S.Skinner
R: air, jig, reel
N: Skinner, SV p.41, Hardie (see fingerings) p.111 [Reverie]
M: C
L: 1/4
K: Em
F \
| EmEF GF/E/ | AmAB cB/A/ | EmBG {G}FE | (B)E2 B7{FE}^DB, \
| EmEF GF/E/ | AmAB cB/A/ | EmBe B7e^d | f2 Eme ||
B \
| Eme2 B2 | Amc3 c | EmB[gG] [fF][eE] | (B)[e2E2] B7{fe}[^d^D]B \
| Eme2 B2 | Amc3 c | EmBe B7e^d | f2 Eme |]
Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To
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Re: [scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
In a message dated 1/14/03 7:10:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The tempo is determined by the dance, and you really have to honor it. If there are no dancers, you are a lot freer to play with the tempo, vary it, etc I'm heartened to read this! As a clarsair, I don't find myself in demand as a dance accompanist. The fiddlers can have it (more appropriate anyway, IMHO). So, when I play dance tunes, I'm honoring the melody, not an arbitrary metronome marking. --Cynthia Cathcart http://www.cynthiacathcart.net/
[scots-l] Re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
Toby Rider wrote: I was digging through Ashley MacIssac's website and found a link to this book that was compiled by Charles Gore. How long has this book been out for? How come Charlie (who is on this list) never mentioned it when it first came out? Sounds like some good an unusual stuff in there. I heard many months ago that Charlie has had computer problems and therefore is not on the list. His reticence in mentioning the book probably comes from modesty, but I mentioned it a few times when I quizzed him about a similar book in the works, this time a collection of airs. How long has it been out? It's dated 1997 and it's a very fine selection of jigs, most of which will be unknown. One of the first tunes in the book is possibly the first instance of the tune known as The Hills of Glenorchy. -- Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/ Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
Toby Rider wrote: I was digging through Ashley MacIssac's website and found a link to this book that was compiled by Charles Gore. How long has this book been out for? How come Charlie (who is on this list) never mentioned it when it first came out? Sounds like some good an unusual stuff in there. I heard many months ago that Charlie has had computer problems and therefore is not on the list. His reticence in mentioning the book probably comes from modesty, but I mentioned it a few times when I quizzed him about a similar book in the works, this time a collection of airs. How long has it been out? It's dated 1997 and it's a very fine selection of jigs, most of which will be unknown. One of the first tunes in the book is possibly the first instance of the tune known as The Hills of Glenorchy. Ah yes.. Charlie is terribly modest.. It's dated 1997 and I didn't even know about it till now! I wonder what else I'm missing.. This makes me think we should compile a big FAQ of essential information for Scottish musicians and put it up on the web.. -- Toby Rider ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) He either fears his fate too much, Or his deserts are small, That puts it not unto the touch To win or lose it all. - James Graham, Marquis of Montrose Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
