Re: [scots-l] Re: Here's tae us! Wha's like us?
Nigel wrote: ... but prejudice exists at an endemic level and in some areas it's so deeply ingrained it's second-nature. There's been a lot of discussion in the Scottish media on this over last year. One statistic reported is that there isn't any difference in measures of social status between Catholic and Protestant people in Scotland. This is offered as proof that discrimination over jobs, housing etc is not now an issue (as it used to be). One police officer reported that if you removed a particular street from the crime statistics they all but disappeared. I suspect it's a local tribal thing rather than racism. Maybe this is an east coast perspective, but it seems it's the folks whose skin is a different colour who are on the receiving end of most of the prejudice round here, and the catholic/protestant thing is over-hyped in comparison, mainly cos links into the Old Firm and football, and sells newspapers. Derek Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Re: Here's tae us! Wha's like us?
Emma Sinclair wrote: Given my context, I have a hard time hearing that as anything but racist. I'll trust you that it's not intended as such. I hold up my hands: I was wrong and I have been foolish. Any racist tones in what I wrote were certainly not intendit. -- Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/ Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Re: Here's tae us! Wha's like us?
Derek Hoy wrote: Maybe this is an east coast perspective... I lived in Glasgow till I was thirteen, after which I was an Edinburgh lad. From my perspective there was a huge difference, coming from a place where it seemed to matter to a great number of people what denomination you were, to a place where it didn't seem to matter a jot. Even at my immature age I noticed that difference. I also noticed the difference later when I lived in Lanarkshire. Maybe there's an east/west divide after all. Anyway, I've said enough on the subject - that's me done. How was the session Derek? -- Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/ Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Re: Here's tae us! Wha's like us?
Nigel asked: How was the session Derek? It was fab. Still recovering. Hope everyone got some music over the festive season. Derek Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Re: Here's tae us! Wha's like us?
Sitting here green with envy :-) Nigel asked: How was the session Derek? It was fab. Still recovering. Hope everyone got some music over the festive season. Derek Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- Toby Rider ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) I don't try to be better then anybody else. I only try to be better than myself. - Dan Jansen, Olympic Gold Medalist World Record Holder, Speed Skating Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Re: Here's tae us! Wha's like us?
Given my context, I have a hard time hearing that as anything but racist. I'll trust you that it's not intended as such. I hold up my hands: I was wrong and I have been foolish. Any racist tones in what I wrote were certainly not intendit. Nigel, Just to keep everything clear, because I've had the pleasure of reading your posts for ages and you have no idea who I am ;-), I certainly believe that you intended no racism and I did not mean to imply that you did. I also know that you have quite a sense of humor and I shouldn't take all of the above literally. :-) Taking the toast as one sentence, Here's tae us wha's like us, reads as exclusionary to me, still resident in the U.S. where self-deprecation often takes the contradictory form of self-aggrandizement and belittling others. Perhaps the famed Scottish (or is it Irish? please don't slam me too hard if it is ;-) self-deprecation must be read into the line, perhaps not. The arrogance implicit in a small but present minority of the responses to my comment suggests that it's not a universal trait. I'll revise my comment though to this: Given my context (U.S., white, middle-class, Jewish, well-educated, disabled), I have a hard time hearing the toast (when taken as a single sentence) as anything but prejudice based upon a fact or assumption of a difference of heritage and/or ethnicity. Because I've read enough of your writing to come to respect you Nigel, I'll trust your assertion (unless you've chosen to recant it ;-) that it's not intended as such. Regards, Emma (Massachusetts, U.S.) Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Re: Here's tae us! Wha's like us?
David Kilpatrick wrote: My experience is that Scots are NOT racist any more than they have any other prejudice... Unfortunately that's as damning an indictment as you could get. All Scots are not racist, but prejudice exists at an endemic level and in some areas it's so deeply ingrained it's second-nature. I've never lived in The Borders, but I have lived in Lanarkshire, and in Glasgow, and I have strong family ties with West Lothian; three areas where bigotry and racism are very evident in day-to-day life. I worry about this prevalent, complacent view that the Scots are not racist because history and present day facts tell us otherwise. In Glasgow alone we have had the murder of an asylum seeker, the murder of two football fans in blatant sectarian incidents, the injury and maiming of several more - all this in very recent times. One of our national newspapers (The Herald) was notorious for their anti-Catholic recruitment policy. In football, our one-time national goalkeeper wore a black armband after a loyalist was killed in The Maze. In North Lanarkshire we see pubs getting their licences suspended because of their overt promotion of sectarian paramilitary organisations (both loyalist and republican); when Helen Liddell stood in the Monklands East election her Catholic education and background was broadcast by her opponents. I'm glad your experience has been different (and on the whole my experience has been positive), but many people in Scotland have experienced prejudice, bigotry and racism face-to-face and, in my opinion, it is vital that it is recognised. I look forward to when we can say that the Scots are not racist and believe it, but I don't think that day has yet come. -- Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/ Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
