Re: [SMW-devel] Inline Editing Functionality by using RDFa

2011-02-16 Thread Markus Krötzsch 
( true )./div\n;
   }
   }
   $result = $rdfa_output;
 -

 [3]-
 div about=http://dbpedia.org/resource/Albert_Einstein;
 xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xmlns:foaf=http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/;
 xmlns:dc=http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/;
 xmlns:dbp=http://www.dbpedia.org/;
 div property=foaf:name
 Albert Einstein
 /div
 div property=dc:dateOfBirth datatype=xsd:date
 1879-03-14
 /div
 div rel=dbp:birthPlace
 div about=http://dbpedia.org/resource/Germany;
 property=dbp:conventionalLongName
 Federal Republic of Germany
 /div
 /div
 /div
 ---

 --
 Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT)
 Institute of Applied Informatics and Formal Description Methods (AIFB)

 Benedikt Kämpgen
 Research Associate

 Kaiserstraße 12
 Building 11.40
 76131 Karlsruhe, Germany

 Phone: +49 721 608-47946 (!new since 1 January 2011!)
 Fax: +49 721 608-46580 (!new since 1 January 2011!)
 Email: benedikt.kaemp...@kit.edu
 Web: http://www.kit.edu/

 KIT – University of the State of Baden-Wuerttemberg and
 National Research Center of the Helmholtz Association


 -Original Message-
 From: Markus Krötzsch [mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org]
 Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:02 AM
 To: Benedikt Kaempgen
 Cc: jmccl...@hypergrove.com; smw dev list
 Subject: Re: [SMW-devel] Inline Editing Functionality by using RDFa

 On 11/02/2011 08:17, Benedikt Kaempgen wrote:
 Hi,

 The RDFa extension is fine as long as you want the semantic information as
 RDFa available somewhere on the page.

 With Inline Editing we mean to let users directly change annotations on
 the rendered page, which would be quite convenient. This is separate of the
 goal of having RDFa descriptions on the page. However, you can bring both
 goals together:

 If the users simply change text on the rendered page, the system cannot
 know which (and whether at all an) annotation was changed. However, if the
 changed item is surrounded by RDFa tags, the system would know, what page
 and property to update and, for instance, could forward this to SMWWriter.

 Exactly. I hope that reduces John's confusion. One could also add that
 it would actually be nice to have the RDFa at the same place as the
 corresponding text, since there are some browser extensions that
 highlight RDFa data sources in the document (and IMHO the main point of
 RDFa is to embed facts into document context).



 So, my goal would be to have the RDFa integrated where possible (not the
 special cases, Yaron and Markus mentioned). I think, the values do not need
 to carry the whole triple information. For property-value-pairs of the page,
 the page would provide the subject URI (xml:base), the values would provide
 the property and value, only. For property-value-pairs queried from other
 pages, the query could carry the subject URI, the values could carry the
 property and values. Is there a way to do this by an extension?


 Good news:
 * There is one unique code place through which all data values that
 appear on the page are passing, and both property and value are known at
 this point.

 Bad news:
 * Everything that gets inserted at this stage must be allowed in
 MediaWiki (a little less, actually, since half of the parsing is already
 through).

 So injecting suitable RDFa into the output would work, but only if you
 can also find a secure way that would allow normal users to do so by
 writing wiki text. Of course, namespaces could be pre-declared in the
 header to simplify this (and to restrict to statements about the wiki).
 This may or may not be difficult to solve, but there should be some
 solution. Anyway, this would give you RDFa for all link-style
 annotations on a page (adding it to #set would be easy, too, but there
 is no context in the page in this case anyway). Of course, you could
 still only edit some of these instances with SMWWriter, and there is no
 easy way of identifying them when you create the output (during link
 parsing, all information about templates is already gone).

 Regards,

 Markus


 --
 Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT)
 Institute of Applied Informatics and Formal Description Methods (AIFB)

 Benedikt Kämpgen
 Research Associate

 Kaiserstraße 12
 Building 11.40
 76131 Karlsruhe, Germany

 Phone: +49 721 608-47946 (!new since 1 January 2011!)
 Fax: +49 721 608-46580 (!new since 1 January 2011!)
 Email: benedikt.kaemp...@kit.edu
 Web: http://www.kit.edu/

 KIT - University of the State of Baden-Wuerttemberg and
 National Research Center of the Helmholtz Association

 -Original Message-
 From: John McClure [mailto:jmccl...@hypergrove.com]
 Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 1:08 AM
 To: 'Markus Krotzsch'; Benedikt Kaempgen
 Cc: 'smw dev list'
 Subject: RE: [SMW-devel] Inline Editing Functionality by using RDFa

 Hi,
 This comment confuses me a bit! Extension:RDFa uses the requested page as
 the subject; I don't see the need

Re: [SMW-devel] Inline Editing Functionality by using RDFa

2011-02-10 Thread Markus Krötzsch 
On 10/02/2011 16:09, Benedikt Kaempgen wrote:
 Hello,

 I would like to add Inline Editing functionality to SMW, so that users can
 edit values of properties directly when clicking on them.

 One way to this would be to have some RDFa surrounding the annotations so
 that after a user has changed the embedded html, a script in the back would
 know from the RDFa which page and property to update.

 There is an RDFa extension, however, it does not embed the RDFa but only
 adds it to the beginning of the page, so that the html is not linked to the
 actual properties.

 I was looking to either hook into the annotation parsers ([[...::...]] and
 {{#ask...}}) or the query parsers (SMWAsk class) to add the RDFa to the
 wikitext/html output, but both times didn't find a suitable place to add the
 RDFa without editing SMW core.

 Any ideas and comments on this would be appreciated.

Having optional RDFa embedding in pages would be nice. It should 
normally be added when displaying values. Then the data would appear on 
all pages where the values are shown, whether on special pages, in 
queries, or on the page itself. This would be nice. The problem with 
this is that the SMW value objects do not know their subject (they 
sometimes know their property, for typing information, but never their 
subject). And the way they are retrieved, it may even happen that they 
do not have a subject in all cases (e.g. when you view all values of a 
property, then one value may belong to many subjects). So not all places 
really would allow for proper RDFa export in the end. I am also slightly 
concerned about the change in data model that it would imply if we 
generally would store whole triples in single values.

But there is currently no SMW-internal representation of a triple for 
representing wiki data -- everything is lists of properties and lists of 
values. This makes it hard to find a good place to get the information 
from for RDFa export in a universal sense (i.e. not just on pages). But 
if we can live without this, then one could still enable RDFa embedding 
on the pages where the data is originally given. This would probably not 
be very useful, since the same page already has a link to the complete 
RDF export, but who knows. Maybe some search engines like it ...

After this, the problem is locating the right spot for making a change, 
as mentioned by Yaron. This amounts to something that is similar to what 
SMWWriter attempts to do (and does successfully in many cases). So I 
think it would be feasible in some cases, but problematic in general.

Regards,

Markus

--
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
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Re: [SMW-devel] Inline Editing Functionality by using RDFa

2011-02-10 Thread John McClure 
Hi,
This comment confuses me a bit! Extension:RDFa uses the requested page as
the subject; I don't see the need to incorporate Inline Editing for Special
Pages or queries. Maybe there is a problem with the RDFa extension?? I'd
like to know because I was hoping to use it in the very near future.
Thanks,
John

-Original Message-
From: Markus Krotzsch [mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:06 PM
To: Benedikt Kaempgen
Cc: smw dev list
Subject: Re: [SMW-devel] Inline Editing Functionality by using RDFa


On 10/02/2011 16:09, Benedikt Kaempgen wrote:
 Hello,

 I would like to add Inline Editing functionality to SMW, so that users can
 edit values of properties directly when clicking on them.

 One way to this would be to have some RDFa surrounding the annotations so
 that after a user has changed the embedded html, a script in the back
would
 know from the RDFa which page and property to update.

 There is an RDFa extension, however, it does not embed the RDFa but only
 adds it to the beginning of the page, so that the html is not linked to
the
 actual properties.

 I was looking to either hook into the annotation parsers ([[...::...]] and
 {{#ask...}}) or the query parsers (SMWAsk class) to add the RDFa to the
 wikitext/html output, but both times didn't find a suitable place to add
the
 RDFa without editing SMW core.

 Any ideas and comments on this would be appreciated.

Having optional RDFa embedding in pages would be nice. It should
normally be added when displaying values. Then the data would appear on
all pages where the values are shown, whether on special pages, in
queries, or on the page itself. This would be nice. The problem with
this is that the SMW value objects do not know their subject (they
sometimes know their property, for typing information, but never their
subject). And the way they are retrieved, it may even happen that they
do not have a subject in all cases (e.g. when you view all values of a
property, then one value may belong to many subjects). So not all places
really would allow for proper RDFa export in the end. I am also slightly
concerned about the change in data model that it would imply if we
generally would store whole triples in single values.

But there is currently no SMW-internal representation of a triple for
representing wiki data -- everything is lists of properties and lists of
values. This makes it hard to find a good place to get the information
from for RDFa export in a universal sense (i.e. not just on pages). But
if we can live without this, then one could still enable RDFa embedding
on the pages where the data is originally given. This would probably not
be very useful, since the same page already has a link to the complete
RDF export, but who knows. Maybe some search engines like it ...

After this, the problem is locating the right spot for making a change,
as mentioned by Yaron. This amounts to something that is similar to what
SMWWriter attempts to do (and does successfully in many cases). So I
think it would be feasible in some cases, but problematic in general.

Regards,

Markus


--
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
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--
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
___
Semediawiki-devel mailing list
Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
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