Re: Multiple Deltas
i haven't used nested models with animation layers since 2010 so i am glad to hear things have improved, but i remember a developer, yanick pomerlau i believe, who told me that the mixer is only stored in the first delta in a hierarchy like you describe. so if you have controls in multiple model spaces and you set keys on them they go in the correct deltas, but if you put animation layers on them they go into the the first one. that alone makes me very weary. animation layers disappearing, old ones returning were our experience, and channels completely missing. once it started to go to shit it was hard to correct. we had the setup you describe and almost over night once we switched issues just went away. :) On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Actually we use nested models with layers and have had good results (with a couple minor fixes here and there in QFEs though) in 2012, and decent but with some pipeline patching in 2011. Nested references are a recipe for disaster, but one deep models under the reference model actually, more often than not, save your arse and allow for better filtering and customization of the deltas than one gimongous one where you'll need to save everything together for geo, deformers, animation controls and additional data. On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: saying no to animation layers entirely with referenced models is a bit too harsh. as long as you stay away from nested models or nested references its pretty stable. and as long as you check your work by re opening the scene you saved you can avoid the grief. s On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Sandy Sutherland sandy.sutherl...@triggerfish.co.za wrote: Certainly - we also found animation layers + ref models to be a big no-no - but we are also still on 2011.5 - not sure if there was anything done in that regard in 2012 or 2013+ -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Multiple Deltas
Yes, we've seen it before, and 99% of the time it was a glitch in the pipe/tools or something unforeseen rather than Soft randomly deciding to add one. The last one created used to supersede all for us, I doubt that's changed. Reloads with some model related events are the easiest thing to slip on creating them, close second renaming/reconnecting things at different stages. On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Nicolas Langlois-Demers n...@oneanimation.com wrote: Hi everyone, First I'd just like to say it's good to be back in Softimage, with all it's little quirks... :) I've got this reference model that has multiple deltas (4) and I'm trying to clean it up. The animator doesn't know what happened and says he hasn't done anything special. Our scripts import a clean asset and create a specific delta for it on import (similar to what Alan Freigtman has done on his side - Thanks Alan!). And nothing else that we coded creates deltas. Have you guys ever had multiple deltas under the same model (that doesn't have any nested model under it)? If so have you found what caused it (short of AddDelta command)? Also, is there any way to find out which of the deltas is the active one? I tried to find the Active parameter under the delta or model (like http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/xsidocs/models_UsingReferencedModels.htm says) but to no avail. Doesn't seem to exist into SDK Explorer. I assume it's the latest one created but assumption is the root of many, many mistakes... Thanks for any help! The documentation is a bit scarce about this and I'm still a bit rusty... Nicolas Langlois-Demers One Animation Singapore -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Multiple Deltas
Yip have had it, a few years back. I cant remember what generated them exactly but I have a strong feeling it had something to do with changing resolutions on the referenced model and animation layers... was about 3 years ago... so im a bit rusty. As for which is the active one when we had it happen, each delta had different bit of animation on it... was a nightmare. sorry I couldn't of been more help, Sandy you remember this problem and what was causing it? On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Nicolas Langlois-Demers n...@oneanimation.com wrote: Hi everyone, First I'd just like to say it's good to be back in Softimage, with all it's little quirks... :) I've got this reference model that has multiple deltas (4) and I'm trying to clean it up. The animator doesn't know what happened and says he hasn't done anything special. Our scripts import a clean asset and create a specific delta for it on import (similar to what Alan Freigtman has done on his side - Thanks Alan!). And nothing else that we coded creates deltas. Have you guys ever had multiple deltas under the same model (that doesn't have any nested model under it)? If so have you found what caused it (short of AddDelta command)? Also, is there any way to find out which of the deltas is the active one? I tried to find the Active parameter under the delta or model (like http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/xsidocs/models_UsingReferencedModels.htm says) but to no avail. Doesn't seem to exist into SDK Explorer. I assume it's the latest one created but assumption is the root of many, many mistakes... Thanks for any help! The documentation is a bit scarce about this and I'm still a bit rusty... Nicolas Langlois-Demers One Animation Singapore -- --- Simon Ben Anderson blog: http://vinyldevelopment.wordpress.com/
Re: Multiple Deltas
i love this list On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Simon Anderson simonbenandersonl...@gmail.com wrote: What Raff mentioned sounds about right. sends shivers down my spine the horror On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Actually now that you mention it we did have one related to empty animation layers creating empty deltas on check-in when activity was changed from base layer to other layers sequentially and then never restored back to the base layer. It was pretty F'in obscure to track. On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Simon Anderson simonbenandersonl...@gmail.com wrote: Yip have had it, a few years back. I cant remember what generated them exactly but I have a strong feeling it had something to do with changing resolutions on the referenced model and animation layers... was about 3 years ago... so im a bit rusty. As for which is the active one when we had it happen, each delta had different bit of animation on it... was a nightmare. sorry I couldn't of been more help, Sandy you remember this problem and what was causing it? On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Nicolas Langlois-Demers n...@oneanimation.com wrote: Hi everyone, First I'd just like to say it's good to be back in Softimage, with all it's little quirks... :) I've got this reference model that has multiple deltas (4) and I'm trying to clean it up. The animator doesn't know what happened and says he hasn't done anything special. Our scripts import a clean asset and create a specific delta for it on import (similar to what Alan Freigtman has done on his side - Thanks Alan!). And nothing else that we coded creates deltas. Have you guys ever had multiple deltas under the same model (that doesn't have any nested model under it)? If so have you found what caused it (short of AddDelta command)? Also, is there any way to find out which of the deltas is the active one? I tried to find the Active parameter under the delta or model (like http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/xsidocs/models_UsingReferencedModels.htm says) but to no avail. Doesn't seem to exist into SDK Explorer. I assume it's the latest one created but assumption is the root of many, many mistakes... Thanks for any help! The documentation is a bit scarce about this and I'm still a bit rusty... Nicolas Langlois-Demers One Animation Singapore -- --- Simon Ben Anderson blog: http://vinyldevelopment.wordpress.com/ -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! -- --- Simon Ben Anderson blog: http://vinyldevelopment.wordpress.com/
Re: Multiple Deltas
In a sexual way, or in a more platonic fashion? On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Enrique Caballero enriquecaball...@gmail.com wrote: i love this list
Re: Multiple Deltas
HR? Anyone know where HR is? Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: In a sexual way, or in a more platonic fashion? On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Enrique Caballero enriquecaball...@gmail.com wrote: i love this list
RE: Multiple Deltas
It always starts platonic... From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Raffaele Fragapane Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 3:54 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Multiple Deltas In a sexual way, or in a more platonic fashion? On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Enrique Caballero enriquecaball...@gmail.commailto:enriquecaball...@gmail.com wrote: i love this list
Re: Multiple Deltas
@ Xavier: Oui, they all have the same target. Some have the same animated parameters in 2 different deltas with different value. @ Everyone: Thanks a lot for these leads. Some animators are using the layers, I'll investigate. I'll also re-check our import scripts and events to make sure they're clean. Please tell us if you have other ideas of what could be causing it.. On 8 November 2012 13:53, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.comwrote: In a sexual way, or in a more platonic fashion? On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Enrique Caballero enriquecaball...@gmail.com wrote: i love this list
RE: Multiple Deltas
LOL - that sounds to me like one of those Naughty geoms that given you are following a nice sensible Ref model loading setup anyway, should be placed in a locked cupboard never allowed to be used by any animator - you know the kind, that suddenly starts saving as a 500BM model instead of 5MB and moans about disconnected this and that! Seriously - we have not used Ref models in a long time, as Simon can tell you we spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to get round them using normal models and tools to do updating/animation storing etc S. Sandy Sutherlandmailto:sandy.sutherl...@triggerfish.co.za | Technical Supervisor [http://triggerfish.co.za/en/wp-content/uploads/udf_foundry/images/logo.png] http://triggerfish.co.za/en [http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/ym/x/lFV-lsMcC_0.png] http://www.facebook.com/triggerfishanimation [https://si0.twimg.com/a/1349296073/images/resources/twitter-bird-white-on-blue.png] http://www.twitter.com/triggerfishza From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Nick Angus [n...@altvfx.com] Sent: 08 November 2012 07:51 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Multiple Deltas It always starts platonic… From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Raffaele Fragapane Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 3:54 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Multiple Deltas In a sexual way, or in a more platonic fashion? On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Enrique Caballero enriquecaball...@gmail.commailto:enriquecaball...@gmail.com wrote: i love this list
RE: Multiple Deltas
Certainly - we also found animation layers + ref models to be a big no-no - but we are also still on 2011.5 - not sure if there was anything done in that regard in 2012 or 2013+ S. Sandy Sutherlandmailto:sandy.sutherl...@triggerfish.co.za | Technical Supervisor [http://triggerfish.co.za/en/wp-content/uploads/udf_foundry/images/logo.png] http://triggerfish.co.za/en [http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/ym/x/lFV-lsMcC_0.png] http://www.facebook.com/triggerfishanimation [https://si0.twimg.com/a/1349296073/images/resources/twitter-bird-white-on-blue.png] http://www.twitter.com/triggerfishza From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Nicolas Langlois-Demers [n...@oneanimation.com] Sent: 08 November 2012 08:09 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Multiple Deltas @ Xavier: Oui, they all have the same target. Some have the same animated parameters in 2 different deltas with different value. @ Everyone: Thanks a lot for these leads. Some animators are using the layers, I'll investigate. I'll also re-check our import scripts and events to make sure they're clean. Please tell us if you have other ideas of what could be causing it.. On 8 November 2012 13:53, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.commailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: In a sexual way, or in a more platonic fashion? On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Enrique Caballero enriquecaball...@gmail.commailto:enriquecaball...@gmail.com wrote: i love this list
Re: Multiple Deltas
saying no to animation layers entirely with referenced models is a bit too harsh. as long as you stay away from nested models or nested references its pretty stable. and as long as you check your work by re opening the scene you saved you can avoid the grief. s On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Sandy Sutherland sandy.sutherl...@triggerfish.co.za wrote: Certainly - we also found animation layers + ref models to be a big no-no - but we are also still on 2011.5 - not sure if there was anything done in that regard in 2012 or 2013+
Re: Multiple Deltas
Actually we use nested models with layers and have had good results (with a couple minor fixes here and there in QFEs though) in 2012, and decent but with some pipeline patching in 2011. Nested references are a recipe for disaster, but one deep models under the reference model actually, more often than not, save your arse and allow for better filtering and customization of the deltas than one gimongous one where you'll need to save everything together for geo, deformers, animation controls and additional data. On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: saying no to animation layers entirely with referenced models is a bit too harsh. as long as you stay away from nested models or nested references its pretty stable. and as long as you check your work by re opening the scene you saved you can avoid the grief. s On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Sandy Sutherland sandy.sutherl...@triggerfish.co.za wrote: Certainly - we also found animation layers + ref models to be a big no-no - but we are also still on 2011.5 - not sure if there was anything done in that regard in 2012 or 2013+ -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
RE: Multiple Deltas
Maybe Steven - but our animators were on horrible deadlines at that time so could not spare the time to re-open scenes, we had to take a decision to stick with it and the relative unknown or drop them and work around it. I must say doing it without ref models has been better in some ways, we are on such tight deadlines here that departments are running concurrently - we had rigging still deep in dev work when full on animation started, so had no good testing period and had big changes on rigs that would have given the animators more than grey hairs if they had suddenly had a reference update that broke a lot of things. In fact they most likely would have lynched me - LOL! So we have some nice tools that do updating - Simon had a big part in the start of those tools. S. Sandy Sutherlandmailto:sandy.sutherl...@triggerfish.co.za | Technical Supervisor [http://triggerfish.co.za/en/wp-content/uploads/udf_foundry/images/logo.png] http://triggerfish.co.za/en [http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v2/ym/x/lFV-lsMcC_0.png] http://www.facebook.com/triggerfishanimation [https://si0.twimg.com/a/1349296073/images/resources/twitter-bird-white-on-blue.png] http://www.twitter.com/triggerfishza From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Steven Caron [car...@gmail.com] Sent: 08 November 2012 08:42 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Multiple Deltas saying no to animation layers entirely with referenced models is a bit too harsh. as long as you stay away from nested models or nested references its pretty stable. and as long as you check your work by re opening the scene you saved you can avoid the grief. s On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Sandy Sutherland sandy.sutherl...@triggerfish.co.zamailto:sandy.sutherl...@triggerfish.co.za wrote: Certainly - we also found animation layers + ref models to be a big no-no - but we are also still on 2011.5 - not sure if there was anything done in that regard in 2012 or 2013+
