[Sugar-devel] Fwd: Requesting review for Sugar-gsoc application Marbles
-- Forwarded message -- From: Puneet Girdhar puneetgirdhar.i...@gmail.com Date: Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:16 PM Subject: Requesting review for Sugar-gsoc application Marbles To: Google Summer of Code @ Sugarlabs list g...@lists.sugarlabs.org Cc: Jameson Quinn jameson.qu...@gmail.com Hi all, After Jameson encouraging support, I think I should discuss my proposal Marbles with you all once again. *Marbles* Marbles aim to build a UI Designer/Creator tool for sugar . The Tool would allow users to drag and drop widgets. Edit the widgets and their properties and also to create custom widgets. The Tool can also be used to connect actions to various signals from the user via the UI and will finally generate code which can be run directly. It can be written either in Wx or Qt making it platform independent. And the generation of code can also made to work on any platform. In short, it would be a stripped down but effective version of Glade ported to sugar. *Design Approach* It's a UI builder tool for creating UI applications. Detailed discussion on this can be found at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marbles#Basic_Design_Principles. I have also considered to use existed UI builder for sugar . Here are my results/findings http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/user/chasedspeed/marbles. *Benefits* 1. Promote healthy brain development 2. Preparing young children for digital programming enviroment. 3. Boost child learning process and success. 4. Support for developers for future advancements ( like addition of widgets, events etc. ) Sugar Wiki-Link : http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marbles Once again, Thank you jameson for bringing my proposal to review. I would like to request all community members to go to the sugar-wiki page and give valuable comments/ suggestions . Your feedback will help me to remain positive. Thanks, Puneet -- Puneet Girdhar BTECH CSE ( IIIrd Year ) IIIT Hyderabad ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Labyrinth-5
Hi Michael, On 11 Apr 2009, at 06:48, Michael Stone wrote: P.S. One notable bug for XO 8.2 distro users, is that adding images from the Journal is currently broken (bumping into rainbow), adding images works fine on sugar-jhbuild and should be fine on Soas distros and xo-rawhide (though I haven't tested there just yet). Gary, Could you please send me a link to a ticket with logs? Sorry if I wasn't clear, it's not a Rainbow bug, but an issue I need to fix in Labyrinth. I had a few early passes at fixing Journal image import integration but not quite there yet. Basically the issue is that Labyrinths image loading code is buried deep down in multiple levels of class and/or Python modules, so I don't have obvious access to the various Activity name spaces for knowing where is safe to save. Line 51 if you want a quick peek: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/labyrinth/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/ImageThought.py Let me take another shot (might have some time on Sunday), alsroot made some changes here after my initial attempts, but I think he was fixing something else, need to catch up with what he was after. Regards, --Gary Thanks, Michael ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Requesting review for Sugar-gsoc application Marbles
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 01:24:21PM +0530, Puneet Girdhar wrote: *Marbles* Marbles aim to build a UI Designer/Creator tool for sugar . The Tool would allow users to drag and drop widgets. Edit the widgets and their properties and also to create custom widgets. The Tool can also be used to connect actions to various signals from the user via the UI and will finally generate code which can be run directly. It can be written either in Wx or Qt making it platform independent. And the generation of code can also made to work on any platform. In short, it would be a stripped down but effective version of Glade ported to sugar. Sounds interesting. Most current use of Sugar is on size-constrained machines (the OLPC XOs). It would help if, in addition to Qr and Wx, your tool could be made to generate GTK code, as that is the framework currently used for most of Sugar (and, I believe, the only generic framework currently used: those not using that framework use something non-generic). Kind regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkngXO4ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgVuQCfSxTtZVZcAjLjIWlqwTNLiaqn xzMAnixTUU0XBx/RK9GjK0ZllDbutFu7 =YcBK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sound in SoaS
On 11.04.2009, at 11:38, Caroline Meeks wrote: The SoaS-Beta that came out on Thursday afternoon had some sound fixes. AFAIK it only added the missing gst-speech plugin for Speak, no? Any other changes? Too bad there is no change log. - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sound in SoaS
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: AFAIK it only added the missing gst-speech plugin for Speak, no? Any other changes? Too bad there is no change log. speak is working for me with the latest beta (tested on eee only), but I couldn't manage to test any other activity -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' homepage: http://www.trueelena.org email: elena.valha...@gmail.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Labyrinth-5
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 09:44:33AM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: Hi Michael, On 11 Apr 2009, at 06:48, Michael Stone wrote: P.S. One notable bug for XO 8.2 distro users, is that adding images from the Journal is currently broken (bumping into rainbow), adding images works fine on sugar-jhbuild and should be fine on Soas distros and xo-rawhide (though I haven't tested there just yet). Gary, Could you please send me a link to a ticket with logs? Sorry if I wasn't clear, it's not a Rainbow bug, but an issue I need to fix in Labyrinth. I had a few early passes at fixing Journal image import integration but not quite there yet. Basically the issue is that Labyrinths image loading code is buried deep down in multiple levels of class and/or Python modules, so I don't have obvious access to the various Activity name spaces for knowing where is safe to save. Line 51 if you want a quick peek: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/labyrinth/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/ImageThought.py looks like rainbow prevents activity to save files to its(activity) own instance directory: os.path.join(get_activity_root(), 'tmp'... -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC Proposal: Multimedia Broadcasting
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Geza Kovacs gkov...@mit.edu wrote: According to http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/search/wrapper.jsp?arnumber=4292735 then the slowest transmission speed, Mode1 (6 Mbps) is only beneficial for multicasting over very large distances; in the case of the AWGN I am sure they did their tests in quiet RF environments. In crowded environments nodes can tell the AP that they're having trouble hearing the frames, please transmit slower. You've calculated 1.6Mbps but that's only the stream. You need to get each to the AP, and _then_ it'll be broadcast. The frame to the AP may be transmittedfast if the XO is close to the AP. The datarate for the broadcast frame from the AP to all the nodes is set by the AP based on the nodes it has registered... In terms of airtime consumption, this of course depends on the airtime-fairness mechanisms used by the wireless network. However, Which just don't exist (not in the QoS sense that you seem to be picturing at least), and deal rather badly with dense networks. There is a backoff mechanism that avoids collisions (rather than detect them) ... in very dense environment this means that the available bandwidth is significantly reduced. The tools that you want to reuse work well in a switched network with ample capacity. The workload of video streaming -- however light you might thing 1.6Mbps is -- in a saturated shared medium with slowest client sets the speed broadcast and conservative backoff strategies is AFAIK an unsolved problem. There's surely a complex research project there -- can it be made to work? What strategies can work on that complex problem? But if you start by assuming you can reuse existing high level tools, it'll be a disaster. It might work in a test environment. But it will never ever work in a real life school. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sound in SoaS
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:54:25AM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 11.04.2009, at 11:38, Caroline Meeks wrote: The SoaS-Beta that came out on Thursday afternoon had some sound fixes. AFAIK it only added the missing gst-speech plugin for Speak, no? Any other changes? Too bad there is no change log. from Soas2-200904021455.iso soas has pulse installed by default, so sound should work in Etoys, could you test soas-2 last image from http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/releases/soas-beta.iso -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Labyrinth-5
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:33:06AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 09:44:33AM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: Hi Michael, On 11 Apr 2009, at 06:48, Michael Stone wrote: P.S. One notable bug for XO 8.2 distro users, is that adding images from the Journal is currently broken (bumping into rainbow), adding images works fine on sugar-jhbuild and should be fine on Soas distros and xo-rawhide (though I haven't tested there just yet). Gary, Could you please send me a link to a ticket with logs? Sorry if I wasn't clear, it's not a Rainbow bug, but an issue I need to fix in Labyrinth. I had a few early passes at fixing Journal image import integration but not quite there yet. Basically the issue is that Labyrinths image loading code is buried deep down in multiple levels of class and/or Python modules, so I don't have obvious access to the various Activity name spaces for knowing where is safe to save. Line 51 if you want a quick peek: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/labyrinth/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/ImageThought.py looks like rainbow prevents activity to save files to its(activity) own instance directory: os.path.join(get_activity_root(), 'tmp'... (just a joke) In my mind using rainbow is like using cannons to shot sparrows more relevant weapon is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingshot :D -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Requesting review for Sugar-gsoc application Marbles
Hi Jonas, I agree, It should be extended to GTK too, since it's a live face for sugar or we can use QT+GTK support to make it real platform independent rich functionality with QT widget styles on GTK ( just idea ) . For GSOC proposal, you can find a small discussion of GTK support for Marbles in my proposal here http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marbles#Basic_Design_Principles. Thank you for your support, Puneet. On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 01:24:21PM +0530, Puneet Girdhar wrote: *Marbles* Marbles aim to build a UI Designer/Creator tool for sugar . The Tool would allow users to drag and drop widgets. Edit the widgets and their properties and also to create custom widgets. The Tool can also be used to connect actions to various signals from the user via the UI and will finally generate code which can be run directly. It can be written either in Wx or Qt making it platform independent. And the generation of code can also made to work on any platform. In short, it would be a stripped down but effective version of Glade ported to sugar. Sounds interesting. Most current use of Sugar is on size-constrained machines (the OLPC XOs). It would help if, in addition to Qr and Wx, your tool could be made to generate GTK code, as that is the framework currently used for most of Sugar (and, I believe, the only generic framework currently used: those not using that framework use something non-generic). Kind regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkngXO4ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgVuQCfSxTtZVZcAjLjIWlqwTNLiaqn xzMAnixTUU0XBx/RK9GjK0ZllDbutFu7 =YcBK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Puneet Girdhar BTECH CSE ( IIIrd Year ) IIIT Hyderabad ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Unified Objects (was Unified bundles)
On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 03:30:00AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: Now here's a mess of ideas from which these three basic intuitions originate: 1. It would be nice to be able to generate various views of what the user can do with shell globs rather than by writing complicated queries over in-memory data-structures that have to be fully loaded and locked into RAM before you can render anything... 2. Activities need to expose their API to the shell. In particular, we /need/ to be able to get an activity to self-test a system for deps, to run non-graphical tests, to run graphical tests, to run network tests, to run a demo or tutorial of itself, to show its source, ... 3. One interesting way to think about (1) and (2), which I have previously discussed with Eben, is in the context of the Plan 9 plumber. Go read about it. But it means adding p9 kernel module of FUSE to SugarPlatform dependencies - a bit overmuch for to try sugar just install it in your favourite distro -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sound in SoaS
On 11.04.2009, at 12:46, Aleksey Lim wrote: On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:54:25AM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 11.04.2009, at 11:38, Caroline Meeks wrote: The SoaS-Beta that came out on Thursday afternoon had some sound fixes. AFAIK it only added the missing gst-speech plugin for Speak, no? Any other changes? Too bad there is no change log. from Soas2-200904021455.iso soas has pulse installed by default, so sound should work in Etoys, could you test soas-2 last image from http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/releases/soas-beta.iso Meh. What happened to version numbers? I take it it's not the same file as the soas-beta.iso from 3 days ago. - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Turtle Art in sugar-jhbuild--defaults to Spanish
Are you running it from outside of Sugar? If so, you should try pullling the most recent version from git, which should default to your default locale. I've never seen the failure you have described from within Sugar. From within Sugar, the relevant code is: lang = locale.getdefaultlocale()[0] if not lang: lang = 'en' -walter On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote: Why does TurtleArt in sugar-jhbuild default to Spanish? How do I change the language for TurtleArt? I have found the language-specific files in images, locale, and samples, and the place in turtleart.py that says to use the .es file, but there must be some other place that specifies Spanish, because changing .es to .en and copying the po.en file over the po.es file don't give me English. -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Requesting review for Sugar-gsoc application Marbles
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 04:30:47PM +0530, Puneet Girdhar wrote: I agree, It should be extended to GTK too, since it's a live face for sugar or we can use QT+GTK support to make it real platform independent rich functionality with QT widget styles on GTK ( just idea ) . Using Qt+GTK sounds platform independent, yes, but Sugar is not platform independent anyway, it is tied to Linux+Python+DBus+GTK, and from a Sugar point of view requiring Qt (isn't Qt+GTK a GTK wrapper around Qt?) is bloat. It might integrate well, but consumes space and memory. For GSOC proposal, you can find a small discussion of GTK support for Marbles in my proposal here http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marbles#Basic_Design_Principles. I only skimmed that page (my strength is in software packaging, not in developing software) but it seems you do not talk about Qt there, only PyGTK. Kind regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkngmhcACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgL+gCeKjK22ufUic/l78pNJ8GAGZPX UGgAn3WRq7SiJCPZWNrKRIYUzQbjMGLS =JTGj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Labyrinth-5
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 4:44 AM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Michael, On 11 Apr 2009, at 06:48, Michael Stone wrote: P.S. One notable bug for XO 8.2 distro users, is that adding images from the Journal is currently broken (bumping into rainbow), adding images works fine on sugar-jhbuild and should be fine on Soas distros and xo-rawhide (though I haven't tested there just yet). Gary, Could you please send me a link to a ticket with logs? Sorry if I wasn't clear, it's not a Rainbow bug, but an issue I need to fix in Labyrinth. I had a few early passes at fixing Journal image import integration but not quite there yet. Basically the issue is that Labyrinths image loading code is buried deep down in multiple levels of class and/or Python modules, so I don't have obvious access to the various Activity name spaces for knowing where is safe to save. Line 51 if you want a quick peek: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/labyrinth/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/ImageThought.py Let me take another shot (might have some time on Sunday), alsroot made some changes here after my initial attempts, but I think he was fixing something else, need to catch up with what he was after. A strategy that has worked for me in the past is to chdir to the right directory in the activity module startup. That way you don't have to import sugar modules into low level source code. Another way to deal with it is to use the environment variables instead of the sugar APIs, and just test for the presence of the environment variables before using them. -Wade ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Progress on the Virtual Appliance
Hi folks, I'm happy to report some progress over the weekend on the SoaS appliance. Finally, it turned out that some live media bits were accidentally included in the recent builds, which caused them not to boot. This has been fixed and I can confirm it now to boot into Sugar here. It's probably alpha quality right now and contains quite some issues: * It runs firstboot when you start it for the first time. maybe we can circumvent this? If not, we need a skin for firstboot. * We can automatically download activities from a.sl.o and include them, but they won't appear, as we can't link them to the /home directory, because that get's created in firstboot. * The current version does NOT work in VMware Fusion. This is a known issue and will be fixed once we resume building. So, please note: I just built this over the weekend to sort this out. You can grab it nevertheless, but I wouldn't expect it to be around much long after newer snapshots appeared on dl.sl.o. Here's the link: http://people.sugarlabs.org/sdz/soas2-20090411.tar.gz Thanks to all those who continuously tried the images! To those who celebrate it, happy Easter! --Sebastian ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Progress on the Virtual Appliance
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.comwrote: Hi folks, I'm happy to report some progress over the weekend on the SoaS appliance. Finally, it turned out that some live media bits were accidentally included in the recent builds, which caused them not to boot. This has been fixed and I can confirm it now to boot into Sugar here. It's probably alpha quality right now and contains quite some issues: * It runs firstboot when you start it for the first time. maybe we can circumvent this? If not, we need a skin for firstboot. * We can automatically download activities from a.sl.o and include them, but they won't appear, as we can't link them to the /home directory, because that get's created in firstboot. * The current version does NOT work in VMware Fusion. This is a known issue and will be fixed once we resume building. So, please note: I just built this over the weekend to sort this out. You can grab it nevertheless, but I wouldn't expect it to be around much long after newer snapshots appeared on dl.sl.o. Here's the link: http://people.sugarlabs.org/sdz/soas2-20090411.tar.gz Thanks to all those who continuously tried the images! To those who celebrate it, happy Easter! Thanks, this is great news! Does the appliance include vmware tools? Dave --Sebastian ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Progress on the Virtual Appliance
Dave Bauer wrote: On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com mailto:sebast...@when.com wrote: Hi folks, I'm happy to report some progress over the weekend on the SoaS appliance. Finally, it turned out that some live media bits were accidentally included in the recent builds, which caused them not to boot. This has been fixed and I can confirm it now to boot into Sugar here. It's probably alpha quality right now and contains quite some issues: * It runs firstboot when you start it for the first time. maybe we can circumvent this? If not, we need a skin for firstboot. * We can automatically download activities from a.sl.o and include them, but they won't appear, as we can't link them to the /home directory, because that get's created in firstboot. * The current version does NOT work in VMware Fusion. This is a known issue and will be fixed once we resume building. So, please note: I just built this over the weekend to sort this out. You can grab it nevertheless, but I wouldn't expect it to be around much long after newer snapshots appeared on dl.sl.o. Here's the link: http://people.sugarlabs.org/sdz/soas2-20090411.tar.gz Thanks to all those who continuously tried the images! To those who celebrate it, happy Easter! Thanks, this is great news! Does the appliance include vmware tools? Dave Actually not. Well, I've lost track of the vmware-tools development, but it seems like they've recently open-sourced them. Downside is that those won't get in Fedora: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=294341 http://open-vm-tools.wiki.sourceforge.net/Distro+Package+Status We could get it from RPM Fusion, though: http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/development/i386/os/repoview/open-vm-tools.html The biggest problem would be that this requires the installation of additional kernel modules and - which could be imo a blocker - that VMware Fusion for the Mac is NOT free. So we might want to consider VirtualBox as a (better) alternative, as this is free for Linux, Mac and Windows. But for that, we don't have any RPM for the additions around, so this would need to be packaged first. And I don't know about: * the license; so I'm not even sure if we'd be allowed to package and redistribute them (it sounds like you'd only get the permission to distribute an ISO or to include the stuff at build time, but IANAL!). * how to package it, as we'd probably need additional kernel modules (which are - afaik - not permitted in Fedora and would go in some third-party repository like RPM Fusion then) and other stuff. So this sounds all a bit complicated... --Sebastian ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Progress on the Virtual Appliance
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.comwrote: * the license; so I'm not even sure if we'd be allowed to package and redistribute them (it sounds like you'd only get the permission to distribute an ISO or to include the stuff at build time, but IANAL!). * how to package it, as we'd probably need additional kernel modules (which are - afaik - not permitted in Fedora and would go in some third-party repository like RPM Fusion then) and other stuff. What's stopping us from adding it to our own repo? The source is available and GPL'd, it's just the sun bins that are PUELed. Worst case we can simply have it run the installer in the final section of the building, as we don't *need* it packaged. -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC Proposal: Multimedia Broadcasting
Since you apparently have more experience with multicasting over wireless I'll assume it's not a realistic option in this context (though it might nevertheless be an interesting experiment to try if have spare time over the course of GSoC after finishing a unicast-based implementation). Returning to unicasting and simply limiting net bandwidth usage, as I understand the slowest client sets the speed issue with the access node switching to Mode1 for broadcast applies only to multicasting. If I have the XO send the video in a single UDP stream to the central XS server (which as I understand has a wired connection to the AP), then have those streams be individually relayed by the XS over the AP to each designated viewer in over unicast UDP, then as I understand the AP will be able to operate near its 56 Mbps net throughput limit, which, factoring in the fact that the effective throughput will be decreased due to noise and that my application of course can't hog all the bandwidth and airtime, means that I will have around 20 Mbps available for unicasting to all clients. Rather than limiting the number of viewers as I originally proposed, I believe that automatically limiting the framerate of the broadcast based on the number of viewers will be a better way to scale for larger numbers of viewers - that is, once the broadcaster gets to the broadcast stage and selects the intended viewers, then based on the available bandwidth and network congestion, then an ideal framerate is calculated out and the stream is encoded and broadcast to all of the viewers at that framerate. Given that the most interest has been expressed over the remote desktop broadcasting feature, and given that there's rather little motion overall on a desktop broadcast, the desktop activity should still be easily viewed at very low framerates. From my personal experience, I don't really miss any features of my own typical desktop activity even at around 3-4 fps (except for gaming, but presumably this will be used primarily for relatively low-motion educational software). At 4 fps, the MJPEG video stream, with a 96 Kbps audio stream, comes out at around 0.5 Mbps. Using 20 Mbps, this stream could be broadcast to 40 users, which I assume is around the upper limit of the number of students in the classroom. Assuming fewer viewers, then higher framerates could be used. Would this be a reasonable approach to limiting airtime usage with unicast streams? On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Geza Kovacs gkov...@mit.edu wrote: According to http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/search/wrapper.jsp?arnumber=4292735 then the slowest transmission speed, Mode1 (6 Mbps) is only beneficial for multicasting over very large distances; in the case of the AWGN I am sure they did their tests in quiet RF environments. In crowded environments nodes can tell the AP that they're having trouble hearing the frames, please transmit slower. You've calculated 1.6Mbps but that's only the stream. You need to get each to the AP, and _then_ it'll be broadcast. The frame to the AP may be transmittedfast if the XO is close to the AP. The datarate for the broadcast frame from the AP to all the nodes is set by the AP based on the nodes it has registered... In terms of airtime consumption, this of course depends on the airtime-fairness mechanisms used by the wireless network. However, Which just don't exist (not in the QoS sense that you seem to be picturing at least), and deal rather badly with dense networks. There is a backoff mechanism that avoids collisions (rather than detect them) ... in very dense environment this means that the available bandwidth is significantly reduced. The tools that you want to reuse work well in a switched network with ample capacity. The workload of video streaming -- however light you might thing 1.6Mbps is -- in a saturated shared medium with slowest client sets the speed broadcast and conservative backoff strategies is AFAIK an unsolved problem. There's surely a complex research project there -- can it be made to work? What strategies can work on that complex problem? But if you start by assuming you can reuse existing high level tools, it'll be a disaster. It might work in a test environment. But it will never ever work in a real life school. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Unified Objects (was Unified bundles)
Quick comment: you should probably be thinking about running activities *in place from their ZIP file* rather than storing the unpacked form in the Journal. This will lead to a much simpler implementation in the short term, since activities still have a single identity. There are a number of desktop search projects which are growing notions of nested identity such that there's an activity bundle (zip file, tar ball, open office document, directory, etc) which has other documents inside it -- but support for this is still very immature. It's easier to treat bundles as single blobs: python is perfectly happy to run code from inside a ZIP file, and if you want to use something other than python then there are several FUSE modules that will let you temporarily mount your ZIP file on a directory mount point. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC Proposal: Multimedia Broadcasting
On 04/11/2009 07:07 PM, Carol Farlow Lerche wrote: It seems like this conversation is somewhat at cross-purposes. Martin discusses the general case of multicast from an arbitrary client through an access point serving many clients with a mixture of multicast and unicast traffic. Well known performance problems result. However, Geza proposes a special case (perhaps). In a classroom, it would be nice to be able to have a projector to send a stream of video to the stations within that classroom. Now, not every school could have extra hardware for this purpose, but I think many could, just as our schools of yore had that funky projector that got rolled into the classroom on the morning when our teacher wanted us to see (or sleep through :-) a movie about something or other. What might be interesting is to consider the possibiliity of connecting the projector client via a USB ethernet connector to a separate multicast access point, that the receiving clients associated with for the time of the movie. This allows the originator of the stream to use a wired connection to the AP, the AP to be chosen and configured to optimize multicasting, and the whole thing to be somewhat isolated from the unicast traffic happening elsewhere. I don't think requiring an additional access point is the right way to accomplish this. As you said, hardware is expensive, so it would be unrealistic to install a new access point into every classroom, and if it were only available in certain classrooms then we're back to what we have right now with projectors - only those classrooms which have them at the moment can use them. As for adding the need for a wired connection to the AP, as I understand the XS already has one so it might be used as a relay so that the actual source machine is simply sending the XS the signal over unicast and the XS is handling the multicasting. Personally I don't like the notion of requiring any wiring because that would limit the locations from which video could be broadcast - say you wouldn't be able to project a video stream from a lab station unless it was pre-wired before class to do so. I think limiting airtime usage on the existing network, by limiting framerates, viewers, or similar mechanisms, is the optimal way to solve this issue - additional hardware requirements would mean that this couldn't immediately be of use in many existing deployments. Right now I'm thinking that, given that I saw at max one full-motion video in class each school year in high school, full-motion video is really a limited niche to be addressing. Given that lecture slides are shown in many classes via projectors basically every day, then extremely low framerate video is really the key to be thinking about here (simply broadcasting the lecture slides in PDF format and using libpoppler to render them client-side and broadcasting slide transition notices could also work - I actually implemented something like this last semester, but then we have the issue that most teachers prefer to present slides directly from PowerPoint/OpenOffice, and that all kinds of issues might occur if the teacher uses specialized fonts or the like). I don't believe that lecture slides, which could be broadcast at much lower framerates (1 fps MJPEG is 100 Kbps per stream) and would thus occupy very little bandwidth and airtime, would suffer any of the issues that Martin and I have been discussing. I've updated my proposal accordingly to reflect the emphasis on broadcasting of lecture slides. Of course this doesn't mean I'm not planning to implement the features I originally proposed - this is merely a contingency plan so that Sugar Labs is left with a useful product nevertheless if technical issues make full-motion video broadcasting infeasible. Not sure if this is workable, but some reading of the papers about multicast performance issues on the Intertubes suggest it might be promising. On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Geza Kovacs gkov...@mit.edu mailto:gkov...@mit.edu wrote: Since you apparently have more experience with multicasting over wireless I'll assume it's not a realistic option in this context (though it might nevertheless be an interesting experiment to try if have spare time over the course of GSoC after finishing a unicast-based implementation). Returning to unicasting and simply limiting net bandwidth usage, as I understand the slowest client sets the speed issue with the access node switching to Mode1 for broadcast applies only to multicasting. If I have the XO send the video in a single UDP stream to the central XS server (which as I understand has a wired connection to the AP), then have those streams be individually relayed by the XS over the AP to each designated viewer in over unicast UDP, then as I understand the AP will be able to operate near its 56 Mbps net throughput limit, which,
[Sugar-devel] GSoC proposal: Speech Synthesis
Hi !! I have implemented a small application that works as a system side keyboard speaker in sugar. To test it please download the keboard_speaker.zip from the following link: http://code.google.com/p/speech-synthesis/downloads/list I want some reviews on it. Regards -- Chirag Jain Undergraduate Student Netaji Subash Institute of Technology New Delhi ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
