Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 11:15:56AM -, h.sondereg...@gmx.net wrote: > Dear Dialists, > > I think the ‚classical‘ analemmatic dial on (school) playgrounds etc. > can show many interesting astronomical (calendrical) aspects – even > more than pure time reading by an active person. This can be done if We have a dial not far from here (Carlton, Melbourne, Australia) that is a horizontal out door dial similar to analemmatic ones. Instead of standing along the North / South line according to date, you stand along it according to height. Regards, Karl --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
In message Bill Gottesman wrote: > There is a much more detailed image of the mutli-purpose dial if you "look > inside" the book sample at > https://www.amazon.com/Time-Flies-Really-stands-still/dp/1977072658. > > This would not function as a common horizontal sundial (except at the north > or south pole). If it were properly tilted and oriented at your latitude > to function as an equatorial sundial, then it could work. You would still > have to manually rotate the backward-appearing gnomon to cast its narrowest > shadow. It is unclear from the limited sample of the book if that is how > the author intended the dial to be set up. > > -Bill > My thanks to everyone who has responded to my original question (both to this List, and privately) - though it drifted 'off-topic' slightly into the area of Analemmatic dials, and only a few people gave their opinions of the book by Brian Macfarlane (in terms of education). I have formed the view that his book (plus the 'Multi-purpose Sundial' itself) are NOT really going to be suitable for our school - although a 'human-scale' analemmatic on the playground has good possibilities. I have 'attached' two more pictures of Brian Macfarlane's "sundial", taken from his private E-mail to myself - and though the 'night-time' mode is not really applicable for a Primary School, I would like to hear any opinions on how THAT aspect of the dial can actually work. As far as I am aware, it is NOT meant to be any form of 'moon-dial'. I shall forward any 'feedback', to Brian Macfarlane himself - as it may perhaps help him to modify/improve a future version of his book. You could also contact him direct at: b.macfarla...@btconnect.com Sincerely, Linda Reid. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
I should add, it would be an extremely confusing way to teach sundials, and I would not recommend this dial from a teaching standpoint. -Bill On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 3:13 PM Bill Gottesman wrote: > There is a much more detailed image of the mutli-purpose dial if you "look > inside" the book sample at > https://www.amazon.com/Time-Flies-Really-stands-still/dp/1977072658. > > This would not function as a common horizontal sundial (except at the > north or south pole). If it were properly tilted and oriented at your > latitude to function as an equatorial sundial, then it could work. You > would still have to manually rotate the backward-appearing gnomon to cast > its narrowest shadow. It is unclear from the limited sample of the book if > that is how the author intended the dial to be set up. > > -Bill > > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 2:14 PM Linda Reid > wrote: > >> >> Has any member of the List ever come across this book - and (if so), >> could you seriously recommend it as an educational item for schools? >> >> The title of it is "Time Flies - Really? Prove it!", from the author >> Brian Macfarlane. The ISBN number is 978-1977085498, which contains >> about 160 pages and is available via "Amazon" for around Five Pounds. >> >> Attached is a very small JPEG image, illustrating its 'front cover'. >> >> >> Apparently, it describes the use of his 'Multi-purpose Sundial' plus >> is aimed at schools as being a curriculum-wide project - but looking >> at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be a 'NON-dial'! >> >> In a private Email to myself, the author claims it has been endorsed >> by Sir Anthony Seldon (Vice-Chancellor of "Buckingham University"), >> who seemingly has described it as being 'a good idea for schools'. >> >> As a teacher, I would prefer to have some independent opinions from >> sundial 'experts' - before considering its use for my own school, as >> this could be a "total waste of money" with no 'educational value'. >> >> >> I look forward to any information - either to the List, or privately. >> >> Sincerely, Linda Reid. >> >> >> -- >> >> --- >> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial >> >> --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
There is a much more detailed image of the mutli-purpose dial if you "look inside" the book sample at https://www.amazon.com/Time-Flies-Really-stands-still/dp/1977072658. This would not function as a common horizontal sundial (except at the north or south pole). If it were properly tilted and oriented at your latitude to function as an equatorial sundial, then it could work. You would still have to manually rotate the backward-appearing gnomon to cast its narrowest shadow. It is unclear from the limited sample of the book if that is how the author intended the dial to be set up. -Bill On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 2:14 PM Linda Reid wrote: > > Has any member of the List ever come across this book - and (if so), > could you seriously recommend it as an educational item for schools? > > The title of it is "Time Flies - Really? Prove it!", from the author > Brian Macfarlane. The ISBN number is 978-1977085498, which contains > about 160 pages and is available via "Amazon" for around Five Pounds. > > Attached is a very small JPEG image, illustrating its 'front cover'. > > > Apparently, it describes the use of his 'Multi-purpose Sundial' plus > is aimed at schools as being a curriculum-wide project - but looking > at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be a 'NON-dial'! > > In a private Email to myself, the author claims it has been endorsed > by Sir Anthony Seldon (Vice-Chancellor of "Buckingham University"), > who seemingly has described it as being 'a good idea for schools'. > > As a teacher, I would prefer to have some independent opinions from > sundial 'experts' - before considering its use for my own school, as > this could be a "total waste of money" with no 'educational value'. > > > I look forward to any information - either to the List, or privately. > > Sincerely, Linda Reid. > > > -- > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
AW: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
Dear Dialists, I think the ‚classical‘ analemmatic dial on (school) playgrounds etc. can show many interesting astronomical (calendrical) aspects – even more than pure time reading by an active person. This can be done if sundial markers are included, which were suggested the first time by Roger Bailey. With these 2 fix marked points one can demonstrate easily the changing positions of sun rise/set during the year at the location of the dial and the changing times of sun rise/set (and day lengths) in the course of the year (See The Compendium - Volume 10 Number, September 2003, page 8-14) or http://helson.at/sonre/Alemm_NASS_Sonderegger.pdf ) Helmut Sonderegger Von: Kevin Karney Gesendet: Monday, April 5, 2021 10:26 AM An: siegfried.netzb...@t-online.de Cc: Maes, F.W. ; Jack Aubert ; Sundial Mailing List Betreff: Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? I am not a particular fan of analemmatic dials, but .. for children of the right age and ability who are taught by an inspirational teacher, the delineation and decoration of an analemmatic dial in the school playground has great merit in the amalgamation of history, art, astronomy, trigonometry, geometry and practical measurement. Kevin Karney, Freedom Cottage, Llandogo, Monmouth NP25 4TP, Wales Phone 01594 530 595 or 07595 024 960 On 5 Apr 2021, at 09:09, Siegfried Netzband wrote: Hi alll, agree in general to everything that has been said about the analemmtic sundial. To me the interactivity is the main advantge of the dial. Especially today. It attracts people to work with it and not just to look at it or even just notice it (or not, because they do not know what a dial is or do not understand "what is going on there"). One thing I miss in the discussion: The bearing stones. To me they make the dial quite interesting - but they very seldom appear in reality and in discussions. By them the dial becomes, without sunshine, a year round sun calender. In literature about the analemmatic dial they are missing quite often. Why is the fact "without sunshine" so seldom taken up and why do so very few dials have these stones? Any idea? Regards Siegfried Siegfried Netzband Hebelstr. 12 75233 Tiefenbronn Tel: 07234 2802 Fax: 07234 942909 Mob: 0151 53083636 / 0160 1531634 E-Mail: siegfried.netzb...@t-online.de E-Post: siegfried.netzb...@e-post.de Skype: siegfried75233 www.ferienhaus-frieseneck.de <http://www.ferienhaus-frieseneck.de> -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? Datum: 2021-04-05T09:37:28+0200 Von: "Maes, F.W." An: "Jack Aubert" Hi all, One property of the analemmatic dial I like to stress: when it has the right size, you can act as gnomon yourself. This makes it an interactive instrument, which is appealing: you have to DO something to get the time. And with the good frame of mind it makes you feel part of the celestial gearworks, which may even be more satisfying. Best regards, Frans Maes <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail> Virusvrij. <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail> www.avg.com On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jack Aubert mailto:j...@chezaubert.net> > wrote: The author’s web site seems to be an attempt to monetize has plans for analemmatic dials claiming that the whole thing is educational. There is even a link for franchised distributors! I suppose it would be interesting to see what kind of information is contained in the book. The drawing on the cover is, like a stopped watch, occasionally correct – but only once a day and only if you decide what part of the shadow to use. It looks like a scam. My personal view of analemmatic dials is that they can be decorative and even entertaining, but are not very educational at all. It is hard enough for me visualize the projection of a conic section onto a horizontal plane and relate it to the sky and the sun let alone explain it to a kid. It’s somewhere between magic and a trick pool shot. Jack Aubert From: sundial mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de> > On Behalf Of R. Hooijenga Sent: Saturday, April 3, 2021 3:47 PM To: sundial@uni-koeln.de <mailto:sundial@uni-koeln.de> Subject: RE: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? For this kind of instrument, I personally like to use the term 'Undial'. So far, it didn't catch on, however - pity! Good Easter, Rudolf Hooijenga 52 30 N 4 40 E -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: sundial mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de> > Namens Linda Reid Verzonden: zaterdag 3 april 2021 20:04 Aan: sundial@uni-koeln.de <mailto:sundial@uni-koeln.de> Onderwerp: Is thi
Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
Diese Nachricht wurde eingewickelt um DMARC-kompatibel zu sein. Die eigentliche Nachricht steht dadurch in einem Anhang. This message was wrapped to be DMARC compliant. The actual message text is therefore in an attachment.--- Begin Message --- I am not a particular fan of analemmatic dials, but .. for children of the right age and ability who are taught by an inspirational teacher, the delineation and decoration of an analemmatic dial in the school playground has great merit in the amalgamation of history, art, astronomy, trigonometry, geometry and practical measurement. Kevin Karney, Freedom Cottage, Llandogo, Monmouth NP25 4TP, Wales Phone 01594 530 595 or 07595 024 960 > On 5 Apr 2021, at 09:09, Siegfried Netzband > wrote: > > > Hi alll, > agree in general to everything that has been said about the analemmtic > sundial. To me the interactivity is the main advantge of the dial. Especially > today. It attracts people to work with it and not just to look at it or even > just notice it (or not, because they do not know what a dial is or do not > understand "what is going on there"). One thing I miss in the discussion: > The bearing stones. To me they make the dial quite interesting - but they > very seldom appear in reality and in discussions. By them the dial becomes, > without sunshine, a year round sun calender. In literature about the > analemmatic dial they are missing quite often. Why is the fact "without > sunshine" so seldom taken up and why do so very few dials have these stones? > Any idea? > Regards > Siegfried > > > > Siegfried Netzband > Hebelstr. 12 > 75233 Tiefenbronn > Tel: 07234 2802 > Fax: 07234 942909 > Mob: 0151 53083636 / 0160 1531634 > E-Mail: siegfried.netzb...@t-online.de > E-Post: siegfried.netzb...@e-post.de > Skype: siegfried75233 > www.ferienhaus-frieseneck.de > > > > > > > > -Original-Nachricht- > Betreff: Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? > Datum: 2021-04-05T09:37:28+0200 > Von: "Maes, F.W." > An: "Jack Aubert" > > > > Hi all, > > One property of the analemmatic dial I like to stress: when it has the right > size, you can act as gnomon yourself. This makes it an interactive > instrument, which is appealing: you have to DO something to get the time. And > with the good frame of mind it makes you feel part of the celestial > gearworks, which may even be more satisfying. > > Best regards, > Frans Maes > > > Virusvrij. www.avg.com > >> On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jack Aubert wrote: >> The author’s web site seems to be an attempt to monetize has plans for >> analemmatic dials claiming that the whole thing is educational. There is >> even a link for franchised distributors! I suppose it would be interesting >> to see what kind of information is contained in the book. The drawing on >> the cover is, like a stopped watch, occasionally correct – but only once a >> day and only if you decide what part of the shadow to use. It looks like a >> scam. >> >> >> >> My personal view of analemmatic dials is that they can be decorative and >> even entertaining, but are not very educational at all. It is hard enough >> for me visualize the projection of a conic section onto a horizontal plane >> and relate it to the sky and the sun let alone explain it to a kid. It’s >> somewhere between magic and a trick pool shot. >> >> >> >> Jack Aubert >> >> >> >> >> >> From: sundial On Behalf Of R. Hooijenga >> Sent: Saturday, April 3, 2021 3:47 PM >> To: sundial@uni-koeln.de >> Subject: RE: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? >> >> >> >> For this kind of instrument, I personally like to use the term 'Undial'. >> >> So far, it didn't catch on, however - pity! >> >> >> >> Good Easter, >> >> Rudolf Hooijenga 52 30 N 4 40 E >> >> >> >> -Oorspronkelijk bericht- >> >> Van: sundial Namens Linda Reid >> >> Verzonden: zaterdag 3 april 2021 20:04 >> >> Aan: sundial@uni-koeln.de >> >> Onderwerp: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? >> >> >> >> >> >> [...] but looking at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be a >> 'NON-dial'! >> >> --- >> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial >> > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --- End Message --- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
AW: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
Hi alll, agree in general to everything that has been said about the analemmtic sundial. To me the interactivity is the main advantge of the dial. Especially today. It attracts people to work with it and not just to look at it or even just notice it (or not, because they do not know what a dial is or do not understand "what is going on there"). One thing I miss in the discussion: The bearing stones. To me they make the dial quite interesting - but they very seldom appear in reality and in discussions. By them the dial becomes, without sunshine, a year round sun calender. In literature about the analemmatic dial they are missing quite often. Why is the fact "without sunshine" so seldom taken up and why do so very few dials have these stones? Any idea? Regards Siegfried Siegfried Netzband Hebelstr. 12 75233 Tiefenbronn Tel: 07234 2802 Fax: 07234 942909 Mob: 0151 53083636 / 0160 1531634 E-Mail: siegfried.netzb...@t-online.de E-Post: siegfried.netzb...@e-post.de Skype: siegfried75233<http://www.ferienhaus-frieseneck.de> -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? Datum: 2021-04-05T09:37:28+0200 Von: "Maes, F.W." An: "Jack Aubert" Hi all, One property of the analemmatic dial I like to stress: when it has the right size, you can act as gnomon yourself. This makes it an interactive instrument, which is appealing: you have to DO something to get the time. And with the good frame of mind it makes you feel part of the celestial gearworks, which may even be more satisfying. Best regards, Frans Maes <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail> Virusvrij. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail> On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jack Aubert mailto:j...@chezaubert.net> > wrote: The author’s web site seems to be an attempt to monetize has plans for analemmatic dials claiming that the whole thing is educational. There is even a link for franchised distributors! I suppose it would be interesting to see what kind of information is contained in the book. The drawing on the cover is, like a stopped watch, occasionally correct – but only once a day and only if you decide what part of the shadow to use. It looks like a scam. My personal view of analemmatic dials is that they can be decorative and even entertaining, but are not very educational at all. It is hard enough for me visualize the projection of a conic section onto a horizontal plane and relate it to the sky and the sun let alone explain it to a kid. It’s somewhere between magic and a trick pool shot. Jack Aubert From: sundial mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de> > On Behalf Of R. Hooijenga Sent: Saturday, April 3, 2021 3:47 PM To: sundial@uni-koeln.de <mailto:sundial@uni-koeln.de> Subject: RE: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? For this kind of instrument, I personally like to use the term 'Undial'. So far, it didn't catch on, however - pity! Good Easter, Rudolf Hooijenga 52 30 N 4 40 E -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: sundial mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de> > Namens Linda Reid Verzonden: zaterdag 3 april 2021 20:04 Aan: sundial@uni-koeln.de <mailto:sundial@uni-koeln.de> Onderwerp: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? [...] but looking at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be a 'NON-dial'! --- <https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial> --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
Hi all, One property of the analemmatic dial I like to stress: when it has the right size, you can act as gnomon yourself. This makes it an interactive instrument, which is appealing: you have to DO something to get the time. And with the good frame of mind it makes you feel part of the celestial gearworks, which may even be more satisfying. Best regards, Frans Maes <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail> Virusvrij. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jack Aubert wrote: > The author’s web site seems to be an attempt to monetize has plans for > analemmatic dials claiming that the whole thing is educational. There is > even a link for franchised distributors! I suppose it would be interesting > to see what kind of information is contained in the book. The drawing on > the cover is, like a stopped watch, occasionally correct – but only once a > day and only if you decide what part of the shadow to use. It looks like a > scam. > > > > My personal view of analemmatic dials is that they can be decorative and > even entertaining, but are not very educational at all. It is hard enough > for me visualize the projection of a conic section onto a horizontal plane > and relate it to the sky and the sun let alone explain it to a kid. It’s > somewhere between magic and a trick pool shot. > > > > Jack Aubert > > > > > > *From:* sundial *On Behalf Of *R. Hooijenga > *Sent:* Saturday, April 3, 2021 3:47 PM > *To:* sundial@uni-koeln.de > *Subject:* RE: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? > > > > For this kind of instrument, I personally like to use the term 'Undial'. > > So far, it didn't catch on, however - pity! > > > > Good Easter, > > Rudolf Hooijenga 52 30 N 4 40 E > > > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: sundial Namens Linda Reid > > Verzonden: zaterdag 3 april 2021 20:04 > > Aan: sundial@uni-koeln.de > > Onderwerp: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? > > > > > > [...] but looking at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be > a 'NON-dial'! > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
> > Any non-declining dial...i.e. any dial whose style is in the > meridional-plane, can be easily & briefly explained as a Horizontal Dial at > a different latitude. Sorry, I meant to say "...any dial for which the normal to the dial's flat shadow-receiving plane is in the meridional-plane..." On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 6:53 PM Michael Ossipoff wrote: > I agree about Analemmataic Dials not being educational, except for > students who are interested in the trig and willing to listen to, study and > work on the subject. Some are, and for them it would be great. > > But for most people, it's just a magic-trick, as you pointed out. The > Analemmatic has the advantage of being vandalism-proof, but it seems to me > that there's no satisfaction, fun or interest for someone in a dial unless > they want to hear the explanation for why it works...and few would be > willing to listen to the construction-explanation of the Analemmatic. > > The Horizontal-Dial has a brief, clear and simple explanation, deriving > from lines drawn on the horizontal surface to where a Polar Dial intersects > that surface. ...and the Polar Dial of course derive from an Equalorial's > hour marks projected from the disk or cylinder onto a polar-parallel plane. > > Any non-declining dial...i.e. any dial whose style is in the > meridional-plane, can be easily & briefly explained as a Horizontal Dial at > a different latitude. > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 11:34 PM Peter Mayer > wrote: > >> Hi Rudolph, >> >> I DO like 'Undial'! Thanks for reminding us of your inspired name. >> >> best wishes, >> >> Peter >> On 4/04/2021 5:16:57, R. Hooijenga wrote: >> >> For this kind of instrument, I personally like to use the term 'Undial'. >> >> So far, it didn't catch on, however - pity! >> >> >> >> Good Easter, >> >> Rudolf Hooijenga 52 30 N 4 40 E >> >> >> >> -Oorspronkelijk bericht- >> >> Van: sundial Namens Linda Reid >> >> Verzonden: zaterdag 3 april 2021 20:04 >> >> Aan: sundial@uni-koeln.de >> >> Onderwerp: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? >> >> >> >> >> >> [...] but looking at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be >> a 'NON-dial'! >> >> ---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial >> >> -- >> --- >> Peter Mayer >> Department of Politics & International Relations (POLIR) >> School of Social Scienceshttp://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/polis/ >> The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 >> Ph : +61 8 8313 5609 >> Fax : +61 8 8313 3443 >> e-mail: peter.ma...@adelaide.edu.au >> CRICOS Provider Number 00123M >> --- >> >> This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) >> and contains information that may be confidential >> and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient >> please notify the sender by reply email >> and immediately delete this email. >> Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone >> other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. >> No representation is made that this email or any attachment >> are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the >> responsibility of the recipient. >> --https://www.adelaide.edu.au/study/ >> >> --- >> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial >> >> --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 6:57 PM Michael Ossipoff wrote: > ...and the Horizontal-Dial, if not in shade, tells time whenever the Sun > is up, and is readable from every direction, if the person is sufficiently > close to it....and, in general, the Flat-Dials are the easiest-built > dials. > ...and , with suitable orientation, can excel in distance-readability > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 11:34 PM Peter Mayer > wrote: > >> Hi Rudolph, >> >> I DO like 'Undial'! Thanks for reminding us of your inspired name. >> >> best wishes, >> >> Peter >> On 4/04/2021 5:16:57, R. Hooijenga wrote: >> >> For this kind of instrument, I personally like to use the term 'Undial'. >> >> So far, it didn't catch on, however - pity! >> >> >> >> Good Easter, >> >> Rudolf Hooijenga 52 30 N 4 40 E >> >> >> >> -Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> >> Van: sundial Namens Linda Reid >> >> Verzonden: zaterdag 3 april 2021 20:04 >> >> Aan: sundial@uni-koeln.de >> >> Onderwerp: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? >> >> >> >> >> >> [...] but looking at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be >> a 'NON-dial'! >> >> ---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial >> >> -- >> --- >> Peter Mayer >> Department of Politics & International Relations (POLIR) >> School of Social Scienceshttp://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/polis/ >> The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 >> Ph : +61 8 8313 5609 >> Fax : +61 8 8313 3443 >> e-mail: peter.ma...@adelaide.edu.au >> CRICOS Provider Number 00123M >> --- >> >> This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) >> and contains information that may be confidential >> and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient >> please notify the sender by reply email >> and immediately delete this email. >> Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone >> other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. >> No representation is made that this email or any attachment >> are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the >> responsibility of the recipient. >> --https://www.adelaide.edu.au/study/ >> >> --- >> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial >> >> --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
...and the Horizontal-Dial, if not in shade, tells time whenever the Sun is up, and is readable from every direction, if the person is sufficiently close to it....and, in general, the Flat-Dials are the easiest-built dials. On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 11:34 PM Peter Mayer wrote: > Hi Rudolph, > > I DO like 'Undial'! Thanks for reminding us of your inspired name. > > best wishes, > > Peter > On 4/04/2021 5:16:57, R. Hooijenga wrote: > > For this kind of instrument, I personally like to use the term 'Undial'. > > So far, it didn't catch on, however - pity! > > > > Good Easter, > > Rudolf Hooijenga 52 30 N 4 40 E > > > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht- > > Van: sundial Namens Linda Reid > > Verzonden: zaterdag 3 april 2021 20:04 > > Aan: sundial@uni-koeln.de > > Onderwerp: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? > > > > > > [...] but looking at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be > a 'NON-dial'! > > ---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > -- > --- > Peter Mayer > Department of Politics & International Relations (POLIR) > School of Social Scienceshttp://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/polis/ > The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 > Ph : +61 8 8313 5609 > Fax : +61 8 8313 3443 > e-mail: peter.ma...@adelaide.edu.au > CRICOS Provider Number 00123M > --- > > This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) > and contains information that may be confidential > and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient > please notify the sender by reply email > and immediately delete this email. > Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone > other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. > No representation is made that this email or any attachment > are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the > responsibility of the recipient. > --https://www.adelaide.edu.au/study/ > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
I agree about Analemmataic Dials not being educational, except for students who are interested in the trig and willing to listen to, study and work on the subject. Some are, and for them it would be great. But for most people, it's just a magic-trick, as you pointed out. The Analemmatic has the advantage of being vandalism-proof, but it seems to me that there's no satisfaction, fun or interest for someone in a dial unless they want to hear the explanation for why it works...and few would be willing to listen to the construction-explanation of the Analemmatic. The Horizontal-Dial has a brief, clear and simple explanation, deriving from lines drawn on the horizontal surface to where a Polar Dial intersects that surface. ...and the Polar Dial of course derive from an Equalorial's hour marks projected from the disk or cylinder onto a polar-parallel plane. Any non-declining dial...i.e. any dial whose style is in the meridional-plane, can be easily & briefly explained as a Horizontal Dial at a different latitude. On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 11:34 PM Peter Mayer wrote: > Hi Rudolph, > > I DO like 'Undial'! Thanks for reminding us of your inspired name. > > best wishes, > > Peter > On 4/04/2021 5:16:57, R. Hooijenga wrote: > > For this kind of instrument, I personally like to use the term 'Undial'. > > So far, it didn't catch on, however - pity! > > > > Good Easter, > > Rudolf Hooijenga 52 30 N 4 40 E > > > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht- > > Van: sundial Namens Linda Reid > > Verzonden: zaterdag 3 april 2021 20:04 > > Aan: sundial@uni-koeln.de > > Onderwerp: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? > > > > > > [...] but looking at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be > a 'NON-dial'! > > ---https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > -- > --- > Peter Mayer > Department of Politics & International Relations (POLIR) > School of Social Scienceshttp://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/polis/ > The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 > Ph : +61 8 8313 5609 > Fax : +61 8 8313 3443 > e-mail: peter.ma...@adelaide.edu.au > CRICOS Provider Number 00123M > --- > > This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) > and contains information that may be confidential > and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient > please notify the sender by reply email > and immediately delete this email. > Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone > other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. > No representation is made that this email or any attachment > are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the > responsibility of the recipient. > --https://www.adelaide.edu.au/study/ > > --- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
Hi Rudolph, I DO like 'Undial'! Thanks for reminding us of your inspired name. best wishes, Peter On 4/04/2021 5:16:57, R. Hooijenga wrote: For this kind of instrument, I personally like to use the term 'Undial'. So far, it didn't catch on, however - pity! Good Easter, Rudolf Hooijenga 52 30 N 4 40 E -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: sundial <mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de>> Namens Linda Reid Verzonden: zaterdag 3 april 2021 20:04 Aan: sundial@uni-koeln.de <mailto:sundial@uni-koeln.de> Onderwerp: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? [...] but looking at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be a 'NON-dial'! --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial -- --- Peter Mayer Department of Politics & International Relations (POLIR) School of Social Sciences http://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/polis/ The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph : +61 8 8313 5609 Fax : +61 8 8313 3443 e-mail: peter.ma...@adelaide.edu.au CRICOS Provider Number 00123M --- This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachment are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient. -- https://www.adelaide.edu.au/study/ --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
The author’s web site seems to be an attempt to monetize has plans for analemmatic dials claiming that the whole thing is educational. There is even a link for franchised distributors! I suppose it would be interesting to see what kind of information is contained in the book. The drawing on the cover is, like a stopped watch, occasionally correct – but only once a day and only if you decide what part of the shadow to use. It looks like a scam. My personal view of analemmatic dials is that they can be decorative and even entertaining, but are not very educational at all. It is hard enough for me visualize the projection of a conic section onto a horizontal plane and relate it to the sky and the sun let alone explain it to a kid. It’s somewhere between magic and a trick pool shot. Jack Aubert From: sundial On Behalf Of R. Hooijenga Sent: Saturday, April 3, 2021 3:47 PM To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: RE: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? For this kind of instrument, I personally like to use the term 'Undial'. So far, it didn't catch on, however - pity! Good Easter, Rudolf Hooijenga 52 30 N 4 40 E -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: sundial mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de> > Namens Linda Reid Verzonden: zaterdag 3 april 2021 20:04 Aan: sundial@uni-koeln.de <mailto:sundial@uni-koeln.de> Onderwerp: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? [...] but looking at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be a 'NON-dial'! --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
RE: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
For this kind of instrument, I personally like to use the term 'Undial'. So far, it didn't catch on, however - pity! Good Easter, Rudolf Hooijenga 52 30 N 4 40 E -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: sundial mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de> > Namens Linda Reid Verzonden: zaterdag 3 april 2021 20:04 Aan: sundial@uni-koeln.de <mailto:sundial@uni-koeln.de> Onderwerp: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'? [...] but looking at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be a 'NON-dial'! --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
Diese Nachricht wurde eingewickelt um DMARC-kompatibel zu sein. Die eigentliche Nachricht steht dadurch in einem Anhang. This message was wrapped to be DMARC compliant. The actual message text is therefore in an attachment.--- Begin Message --- Hi Linda, This book is not a good place to start! The device on the front cover is not a sundial but the author’s style idiosyncratic invention which is supposed to show how time works around the world. I might suggest the British Sundial Society publication “Make a sundial “ put together by Jane Walker. See https://sundialsoc.org.uk/shop/books-and-publications/ It was written a few years ago but sundials don’t change much. The BSS website also has much info and advice (free!). Regards, John ——- Dr J Davis Flowton Dials http://www.flowton-dials.co.uk/ BSS Editor http://sundialsoc.org.uk/publications/the-bss-bulletin/ > On 3 Apr 2021, at 19:03, Linda Reid wrote: > > 978-1977085498 --- End Message --- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Is this an educational sundial, or a 'NON-dial'?
Has any member of the List ever come across this book - and (if so), could you seriously recommend it as an educational item for schools? The title of it is "Time Flies - Really? Prove it!", from the author Brian Macfarlane. The ISBN number is 978-1977085498, which contains about 160 pages and is available via "Amazon" for around Five Pounds. Attached is a very small JPEG image, illustrating its 'front cover'. Apparently, it describes the use of his 'Multi-purpose Sundial' plus is aimed at schools as being a curriculum-wide project - but looking at the illustration on the front cover, it seems to be a 'NON-dial'! In a private Email to myself, the author claims it has been endorsed by Sir Anthony Seldon (Vice-Chancellor of "Buckingham University"), who seemingly has described it as being 'a good idea for schools'. As a teacher, I would prefer to have some independent opinions from sundial 'experts' - before considering its use for my own school, as this could be a "total waste of money" with no 'educational value'. I look forward to any information - either to the List, or privately. Sincerely, Linda Reid. -- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
