Re: [Elphel-support] Ordering stereo camera

[Olga Filippova]

Dear Elham,

can you please explain the technical reasons for ordering inline camera? It
looks like you plan to use Inline camera as 2 stereo cameras with 2
different bases. This is fine, but it has been done before, while the
H-camera presents interesting research opportunities.

Practically speaking we offer 4.5mm lenses (custom adjustment has been made
to fit this lens to the camera, using 3 different adapter rings, as can be
seen here:
http://www3.elphel.com/importwiki?title=File:N125B04530W_adapter.jpeg) But
we do not offer any 9 mm lenses - we have not tested any of 9mm lenses and
we don't have these in stock, however you are welcome to purchase such
lenses separately and install them on the camera.

I am researching the exporting regulations to Iran. I think we can ship our
camera products to Iran, but I need to receive answers from the exporting
agency, to make sure.

We offer standard 48V power supply that converts AC power from wall outlet
to 48V DC power. The camera uses 3.3V, but the power supply has to be
minimum 12V, or 18V better, especially for camera with 4 image sensors. You
can power the camera from the boat power supply. For development it is nice
to have a wall adapter, like the 48 V AC-DC converter we offer (or you can
use the one you already have or can purchase locally).

Best Regards,


On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 12:55 AM, Elham Omrani  wrote:

> Hello Olga,
> Thank you for your attention to this matter. Yes, I remember, but
> Contrary to my opinion, my supervisor emphasis on purchasing Inline model.
> Therefore we decide to order inline model. so please quote for *inline
> model*, with 22 cm inner baseline(for inner lenses )  with 4.5 mm lens, and
> 44 cm outer baseline with 9 mm lens.
> We want to ship the camera to Iran. Do you send the camera with DHL post?
>  According to your website, the required power for the 10393 system board
> is 3.3 VDC (http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=10393) and Why do you
> use 48 v power supply ? what is required power for the camera? we have 12
> VDC and 20-30 VDC(variable) on our robot, is it suitable for the camera?
> or we must purchase 48 v power supply ?
> I'm looking forward hearing from you.
> Elham
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 1:44 AM, support-list <
> support-list@support.elphel.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Elham,
>
> Elphel is a small company, and all our funds come from the product sales -
> we do not use any government funding, private investments or crowdfunding.
> Our margin is lower than 50%, so such discount means that we already pay
> more for the components than receive for the camera sale.
>
> That is OK, we do sometimes donate to interesting projects, but right now
> we are still in the process of upgrading to the new line of the cameras,
> that involves rather expensive R that does not pay back immediately. We
> use now all the available resources to shorten the transition time, it is
> going well so far, but still there is work to be done.
>
> We may consider donating to interesting projects in the future, but right
> now it is all what we can afford to offer.
>
> As for the brochure - we do not yet have any for the new camera, all the
> information we have ourselves is posted online. Code is on Github (
> https://github.com/Elphel),  more information on our wiki (
> http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=10393 ,
> http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=Poky_2.0_manual, ) more picture in
> the blog post - http://blog.elphel.com/2016/05/3d-print-your-camera-
> freedom/
>
> Here - http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=Elphel_camera_assemblies
> (the link is on our home page) you can take our camera apart and look at
> each component (all components have CAD files on our wiki - files you can
> use to build the parts).
>
> Andrey
>
>  On Tue, 02 Aug 2016 08:15:32 -0700 *Elham Omrani
> >* wrote 
>
> Dear Andrey,
> Thank you for your excellent suggestion. we will be very happy if you
> contribute in this project. could you please raise the percent of your
> sponsorship? furthermore, is it possible to send us the NC393-H brochure?
> we are sincerely grateful for your contribution
> Elham
>
>
>
>
> Dear Elham,
>
> Your project seems very interesting.  We can sponsor 50% of the cost of
> the NC393-H for your team and provide additional technical support. Will
> the result of your research be open for others to reproduce?
>
> Andrey
>
>  On Mon, 01 Aug 2016 01:27:18 -0700 *Elham Omrani
> >* wrote 
>
> Dear Andrey
> I'm PhD student and in my thesis is "*Implementation of stereo vision
> system for obstacle detection in solar boat"*
> this is my website:http://emorvarid.ut.ac.ir/Members.htm
>
> Elham
> On Monday, August 1, 2016 11:27 AM, support-list <
> support-list@support.elphel.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Elham,
>
> What kind of project is it ? Is it a personal, commercial, student/Ph.D
> research, something 

Re: [Elphel-support] Ordering stereo camera

[Elphel Support]

Elpham,

Using dual 2-lens system does not give you any advantage compared to two 
separate systems, and for research project I would rather use 2 separate, for 
simplicity.

You know that there are many ways to process multi-view images, most use 
feature extraction and keypoints before calculating disparity and so the 
distance. 

Alternatively you can start from correlation (in most cases a superposition of 
the correlation and phase correlation) of the (usually just 2) images trying to 
get distance to objects that do not have easily identifiable feature but still 
have many high-frequency components.

Both paths have some advantages and disadvantages, correlation provides better 
Z-resolution (you can easily operate with disparities being a small fraction of 
a pixel - like 0.1), but it is easy to get into ambiguous results, especially 
when the objects have some periodic structures.

Using more than 2 view simultaneously can reduce ambiguity significantly, and 
finally get high precision distance measurements before the image is analyzed 
for feature extraction. Right now we do not have this code in FPGA, but it is 
one of our close targets that we'll work on when the base software for the 
cameras will be finished, so correlation will be done at "hardware" speeds in 
the same NC393-based cameras running new code. Meanwhile you could post-process 
images on a regular PC.

I've seen much less works on the distance measurements with multiple-view 
systems compared to the standard 2-sensor systems, so that would give you an 
opportunity to do an interesting research.

You could play (just online or download sources for analysis) with our 
"triclops" images that are linked on our web site to get an idea of the 
advantage of the multiple view systems.

Andrey


 On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 12:27:28 -0700 Elham 
Omranielh.omr...@yahoo.com wrote  

Dear Olga,
Thank you for  providing the requested information. Yes, we want to use Inline 
camera as 2 stereo cameras. Inner lenses are a stereo vision system with 
smaller baseline and focal length (suitable for near distance) and outer lenses 
are a stereo system with bigger baseline and focal length (for far distance). 
As you know, stereo vision error increases with increasing distance. Because of 
this, researchers uses 2 stereo camera in a unified system to decrease 
disparity error.
If you use same baseline and focal lenses, What is your purpose of designing H- 
model or inline model with same baseline and focal lenses?
About lens, In addition to 4.5 mm lens, what lens do you recommend (we prefer 
bigger than 4.5 focal lens)?
 
 I'm looking forward hearing from you.
Elham


 


On Monday, August 29, 2016 9:53 PM, Olga Filippova 
support-list@support.elphel.com wrote:

 

 Dear Elham,



can you please explain the technical reasons for ordering inline camera? It 
looks like you plan to use Inline camera as 2 stereo cameras with 2 different 
bases. This is fine, but it has been done before, while the H-camera presents 
interesting research opportunities. 

Practically speaking we offer 4.5mm lenses (custom adjustment has been made to 
fit this lens to the camera, using 3 different adapter rings, as can be seen 
here: http://www3.elphel.com/importwiki?title=File:N125B04530W_adapter.jpeg) 
But we do not offer any 9 mm lenses - we have not tested any of 9mm lenses and 
we don't have these in stock, however you are welcome to purchase such lenses 
separately and install them on the camera.


I am researching the exporting regulations to Iran. I think we can ship our 
camera products to Iran, but I need to receive answers from the exporting 
agency, to make sure.


We offer standard 48V power supply that converts AC power from wall outlet to 
48V DC power. The camera uses 3.3V, but the power supply has to be minimum 12V, 
or 18V better, especially for camera with 4 image sensors. You can power the 
camera from the boat power supply. For development it is nice to have a wall 
adapter, like the 48 V AC-DC converter we offer (or you can use the one you 
already have or can purchase locally).


Best Regards,



On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 12:55 AM, Elham Omrani elh.omr...@yahoo.com 
wrote:
Hello Olga,
Thank you for your attention to this matter. Yes, I remember, but Contrary to 
my opinion, my supervisor emphasis on purchasing Inline model. Therefore we 
decide to order inline model. so please quote for inline model, with 22 cm 
inner baseline(for inner lenses )  with 4.5 mm lens, and 44 cm outer baseline 
with 9 mm lens. 
We want to ship the camera to Iran. Do you send the camera with DHL post?
 According to your website, the required power for the 10393 system board is 
3.3 VDC (http://wiki.elphel.com/index. php?title=10393) and Why do you use 48 v 
power supply ? what is required power for the camera? we have 12 VDC and 20-30 
VDC(variable) on our robot, is it suitable for the camera? or we must purchase 
48 v power supply ?
I'm looking forward hearing from you.

Re: [Elphel-support] Ordering stereo camera

[Elham Omrani]

Hello Olga,
Thank you for your attention to this matter. Yes, I remember, but Contrary to 
my opinion, my supervisor emphasis on purchasing Inline model. Therefore we 
decide to order inline model. so please quote for inline model, with 22 cm 
inner baseline(for inner lenses )  with 4.5 mm lens, and 44 cm outer baseline 
with 9 mm lens. 
We want to ship the camera to Iran. Do you send the camera with DHL post?
 According to your website, the required power for the 10393 system board is 
3.3 VDC (http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=10393) and Why do you use 48 v 
power supply ? what is required power for the camera? we have 12 VDC and 20-30 
VDC(variable) on our robot, is it suitable for the camera? or we must purchase 
48 v power supply ?
I'm looking forward hearing from you.
Elham 

On Monday, August 1, 2016 10:32 AM, support-list 
 wrote:
 

 Dear Elham,

The most flexible solution will be something like this - 
http://blog.elphel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/nc-393-printed-H-.jpeg , you 
will be able to change configuration if you'll need to.

You can run opencv in the camera (not possible in the older NC353), but it will 
not be probably fast enough. On the other hand we plan to add more configurable 
image correlation processing into the FPGA (here id the block diagram of the 
current FPGA code), so you will be able to start with the external computer 
processing and later (probably in a year) to do some correlation in the camera 
in real time.

Andrey



 On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 22:37:44 -0700 Elham Omrani 
wrote  

Dear Andrey,Thanks for your good reply.My project is navigation and obstacle 
avoidance of a boat in outdoor. so I want to help me in choosing proper stereo 
camera.We want to use Opencv program.Yes, this program can use color or 
monochrome images.SinserlyElham 

On Monday, August 1, 2016 9:50 AM, support-list 
 wrote:
 

 Dear Elpham,

There are many other issues that need to be considered when you select 
configuration of the stereo camera
What type of objects you need to measure, their angular size
What resolution do you need - angular and in distance
What software are you going to use - what kinds of lens distortions it can 
tolerate/compensate?
Does this software use color or monochrome images?
And many more

I would also recommend trying more than just 2 sensors - our experience 
indicates that it is much easier to avoid ambiguity before doing any feature 
extraction by just combining 3 or 4 images instead of 2.

Andrey



 On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 22:03:09 -0700 Elham Omrani 
wrote  

Dear Andrey,
Thank you for your kindly answering and suggestion. I think NC353 camera with 
5MPix resolution is enough for me(because of high speed of algorithm). in my 
project i need to see the depth of 50 meters(max).In your opinion is it 
possible? And the parameters of  focal length and angle of view in what range 
should be? Elham 




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