[biofuels-biz] (unknown)
Hi Jim, I had problems originally too with the acid/base two stage. I have studied the chemistry since and am supprised that I did as well as I had. The addittion of conc Sulphuric acid to oil is a touchy process. The acid can sulphonate the oil(very bad)and it can otherwise affect chemical bonds. To get it to esterify the free fatty acids without doing more, you need to follow Alex's method closely. 1) Make sure that the acid is concentrated enough, 95% may be good enough but I prefer 98%. Remember that Conc sulphuric is the primo absorber of water and the properties of dilute sulphuric are very different to the conc. acid. 2)Do not use more acid than the 1ml/litre suggested, amoungst other reactions it may form mono or diglycerides that can have a detergent effect on the glycerine. 3)Stir slowly, it doesn't take much to initiate other reactions. 4) Maintain a constant 60C, too hot and again a new set of reactions can occur. Loss of methanol will also allow other reactions. 5)Watch the timing, as I remember I allow the reaction to cool after an hour and then neutralize the acid with methoxide soln at an another hour for liquid oils and 1.5 hours for solid oils. Follow Alex's directions to the letter. Calculate the amount of methanol carefully and try to stay under 1.6 times the theoretical for your oil type. Excess alcohol can keep the glycerol in suspension. I try to keep a lid on the batch to prevent the sulphuric from absorbing much water from the air. If you mix the lye and alcohol before use keep it tightly closed. It will absorbe water if it can. I think that covers the post from a pervious discussion, good luck. Regards from Harry. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], jim h [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi I,ve made a few small batches using the 2 stage process but have had some problems. Every time at the acid stage it doesn't seporate, instead I allways end up with a thick mass. can anyone advise to what I'm doing wrong? Any help would be appreciated. jim _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: Biodiesel Offers Immediate Opportunity for Energy Conservation
From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Energy - WebConX [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Biodiesel Offers Immediate Opportunity for Energy Conservation Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 06:30:47 -0400 **This is a mailing from the Renewable Energy Online Newsletter** Biodiesel Offers Immediate Opportunity for Energy Conservation Story Filed: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:15 PM EST JEFFERSON CITY, Mo., Aug 8, 2001 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Biodiesel provides an immediate opportunity to conserve energy because every gallon of biodiesel fuel used in place of ordinary petroleum-based diesel fuel has the potential of extending non-renewable fossil energy reserves by four times, according to Joe Jobe, Executive Director of the National Biodiesel Board. Jobe cited a U.S. Department of Energy lifecycle analysis, which finds that biodiesel, has the highest energy balance of any fuel, of 3.2-to-1. This is compared to 0.83-to-1 for petroleum diesel fuel. For every unit of energy used to produce biodiesel, 3.2 units of energy are gained. This is the highest energy balance of any fuel and four times higher than conventional diesel fuel, Jobe explains. Biodiesel, which is an alternative fuel made from natural, renewable sources such as soybean oil, was the focus of a half-day outreach session conducted by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Agricultural Research Service (ARS) at its facility in Beltsville, Maryland. At the event, a variety of biodiesel uses were demonstrated based on the ARS use at the Henry A. Wallace Beltsville Agricultural Research Center. The center not only uses biodiesel in their vehicles, but as heating fuel in some buildings as well as to power various kinds of equipment such as generators and mowers. Also on hand were representatives of the U.S. Department of Defense and a New Jersey school district who have used the product successfully. In conjunction with the event, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Ann M. Veneman, announced that she had signed a directive that ordered all USDA fuel tanks to be filled with biodiesel nationwide, where feasible. In making the announcement, Secretary Veneman said, Agriculture can help us solve our energy problems through the production of domestic liquid fuels, such as ethanol and biodiesel. Renewable energy is good for independence, good for farmers, and good for the environment. Jobe and other participants in the outreach session emphasized that biodiesel not only reduces CO2 emissions but is also recognized as reducing health hazards from diesel exhaust. In the question and answer session, Jobe and his NBB colleague Alan Weber pointed out that biodiesel has premium diesel characteristics including high lubricity and high cetane, which leads to reduced maintenance cost and increased engine life. Biodiesel performs comparably to diesel, and has similar BTU content. It is the safest of all fuels to use, handle and store. More than 100 major fleets use biodiesel, including public utilities, government agencies, school districts and other transit authorities. The fuel has been proven successful in more than 40 million road miles and countless off-road, marine, boiler and generator applications. Biodiesel is listed with the Department of Energy as an alternative fuel and is registered with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as both a fuel and fuel additive. It is the only alternative fuel to have passed the rigorous Health Effects testing requirements of the Clean Air Act. The results, submitted to the EPA in 2000, show biodiesel is non-toxic, biodegradable and free of sulfur. It reduces carbon monoxide, unburned hydrocarbons and particulate matter emissions. Readers can learn more about the August 7 ARS, USDA, Outreach Session and biodiesel by visiting http://www.biodiesel.org . The National Biodiesel Board is funded in part by the United Soybean Board and state soybean board check- off programs The U.S. Department of Agriculture is providing a satellite uplink with news from the Agricultural Research Service biodiesel outreach session. The feed is available Thursday, August 9, from 4:15 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. ET at this satellite address: TELSTAR 4 (C-Band) Transponder 23-C, Vertical, downlink frequency 4160 MHZ, 89 degrees west, Audio 6.2/6.8 Trouble number: 703-642-8585 Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- --- To change your subscription to the Renewable Energy Online Newsletter, visit: http://mail.webconx.com:8181/guest/RemoteListSummary/wcxenergy_text -- http://www.webconx.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at
[biofuel] Liquid Liquid Separation of glycerin and ester and or washing of BIODIESEL
Hi biofuel community, if you are looking for specialists in continuos liquid liquid separations (glycerin - ester) with experiance in the biodiesel environment please contact me. I tried to attach a brochure which shows you the principle of this centrifugal separation., but this was not possible in the community network. If you are interested I will send you an flash animation with shows you the technologie of this grear centrifuge. Check our homepage www.cinc-co.com or see the animation under www.filtraguide.de under prinziples of separation. Best regards Mathias Mit freundlichem Gru§ CINC Deutschland GmbH Mathias Vornefeld Langestrasse 42 D 33034 Brakel Tel. 0527239570 Fax 39572 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Diesel engines and used motor oil
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: Re: [biofuel] Diesel engines and used motor oil SEE: http://www.webb-sales.com/oil.html Ed B. Thanks Ed, That was interesting, I'd not seen that before. Good idea though. Hi Joe Do you know if 'washing' the used motor oil would help to get the particles out. Or would it help to clean it with a filter powder? Looking into it since some time. No recycling here in Zimbabwe. Usually its drawn into a hole on the dust roads and covered with sand after (best case... sometimes just right on the road...) Urs, I don't know what you mean by 'washing', but if you filter the oil well enough so that it doesn't plug up the fuel filter, then yes, by all means, mix it with the fuel. You are right, that is far better than dumping the used oil into a hole in the ground. Try that site from Ed again, it looks like that would work for you, although I don't know what kind of budget with which you are working. The device mixes at a rate of less than 1%, and draws the oil from the engine gallery (after it has been filtered). Also I believe there is a Cummins available that does never (or only every 100'000 miles or so) changes the oil but continuously replaces some of it with fresh oil and mixes the rest into the diesel...? (That's where I've got the idea from..) Since I have over 1000hp of diesel engines, I'm considering even collecting some of the oil if I find suitable solution... still better then if it's drawn into the ground... Thanks Urs Snip... Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: Charlton Heston.
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: [biofuel] RE: Charlton Heston. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Chuck is president of the National Rifle Association (NRA). The largest most influential gun lobby in the US. The NRA is an interesting study in how a group can change over the years. It started out as a conservation group, largely for hunters who wanted to conserve the wild lands on which they hunted, and remained so for most of its existence. It has since morphed into the very picture of the right wing gun rights group, and conservation has dropped out of the picture. It has changed to the point that it has alienated many of its long time members. They are in fact the largest and most influential gun lobby in the US, but they keep needing membership drives because they lose members almost as fast as they gain them. Whenever any member of the NRA tries seriously to raise a voice for common sense or compromise, or a return the the NRA's conservationist roots, that person is almost always kicked out, and in a couple of cases people have received death threats. I don't know how much control Chuck has over the NRA. I suspect he's really a figurehead and spokes-celebrity. I am a gun owner, and I was in the past a member of the NRA, but they got too radical for my taste, so I didn't renew my membership. Alan, Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I was against the NRA. I too am a former member and gun owner who beleives in an individuals right to keep and bear arms. I am also 'plane' crazy- I would love to build and install a diesel engine in an aircraft. I know, that German company (Zoche) is making 4 and 8 cyl radial diesels for air craft, but they have been promising that for more than 10 years. :-( Regards, Joe. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] dried fuel alcohol
Dear Mr Shaikar Gupta, We are presently interested in introducing our highly cost effective technology for dehydration of ethanol. In this context we request you to please give us your contact details and company profile to enable us proceed further discussion. Awaiting you reply. Thanks Best regards, Prasenjit Ghosh Chemicals section Metropolitan Center, Bangla sahib road, New Delhi - 110001 Ph : ++91-11-3345481-86 Fax : ++91-11-3364420 / 3742498 -Original Message- From: shaikhar gupta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 3:22 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] dried fuel alcohol Dear Sirs, We intend to set up a Power Alcohol Plant of 20 Million liters per year capacity with Molecular Sieve Drying using 95% purity(v/v) alcohol as feedstock. 95% purity Alcohol (with 5% moisture) is readily available which we wish to purify to 99.5% purity(v/v). Steam at 6 Kg/cm2g pressure and Cooling water at 32¡C and Power at 400 Volts, 50 cycles is available. We understand you are manufacturer of Power Alcohol. Can you supply us this Alcohol Dehydration plant? Can you also give us only Technical know how and Drawings for making this plant in India. What would be your Technical fee? If you are not in a position to do either of the above, then please let us know Names and Addresses of consultants to whom we can contact for this requirement. We are thankful for your help. Thanking you, SHAIKHAR CHANDRA Purchase ManagerGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Biodiesel Offers Immediate Opportunity for Energy Conservation
From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Energy - WebConX [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Biodiesel Offers Immediate Opportunity for Energy Conservation Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 06:30:47 -0400 **This is a mailing from the Renewable Energy Online Newsletter** Biodiesel Offers Immediate Opportunity for Energy Conservation Story Filed: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:15 PM EST JEFFERSON CITY, Mo., Aug 8, 2001 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Biodiesel provides an immediate opportunity to conserve energy because every gallon of biodiesel fuel used in place of ordinary petroleum-based diesel fuel has the potential of extending non-renewable fossil energy reserves by four times, according to Joe Jobe, Executive Director of the National Biodiesel Board. Jobe cited a U.S. Department of Energy lifecycle analysis, which finds that biodiesel, has the highest energy balance of any fuel, of 3.2-to-1. This is compared to 0.83-to-1 for petroleum diesel fuel. For every unit of energy used to produce biodiesel, 3.2 units of energy are gained. This is the highest energy balance of any fuel and four times higher than conventional diesel fuel, Jobe explains. Biodiesel, which is an alternative fuel made from natural, renewable sources such as soybean oil, was the focus of a half-day outreach session conducted by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Agricultural Research Service (ARS) at its facility in Beltsville, Maryland. At the event, a variety of biodiesel uses were demonstrated based on the ARS use at the Henry A. Wallace Beltsville Agricultural Research Center. The center not only uses biodiesel in their vehicles, but as heating fuel in some buildings as well as to power various kinds of equipment such as generators and mowers. Also on hand were representatives of the U.S. Department of Defense and a New Jersey school district who have used the product successfully. In conjunction with the event, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Ann M. Veneman, announced that she had signed a directive that ordered all USDA fuel tanks to be filled with biodiesel nationwide, where feasible. In making the announcement, Secretary Veneman said, Agriculture can help us solve our energy problems through the production of domestic liquid fuels, such as ethanol and biodiesel. Renewable energy is good for independence, good for farmers, and good for the environment. Jobe and other participants in the outreach session emphasized that biodiesel not only reduces CO2 emissions but is also recognized as reducing health hazards from diesel exhaust. In the question and answer session, Jobe and his NBB colleague Alan Weber pointed out that biodiesel has premium diesel characteristics including high lubricity and high cetane, which leads to reduced maintenance cost and increased engine life. Biodiesel performs comparably to diesel, and has similar BTU content. It is the safest of all fuels to use, handle and store. More than 100 major fleets use biodiesel, including public utilities, government agencies, school districts and other transit authorities. The fuel has been proven successful in more than 40 million road miles and countless off-road, marine, boiler and generator applications. Biodiesel is listed with the Department of Energy as an alternative fuel and is registered with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as both a fuel and fuel additive. It is the only alternative fuel to have passed the rigorous Health Effects testing requirements of the Clean Air Act. The results, submitted to the EPA in 2000, show biodiesel is non-toxic, biodegradable and free of sulfur. It reduces carbon monoxide, unburned hydrocarbons and particulate matter emissions. Readers can learn more about the August 7 ARS, USDA, Outreach Session and biodiesel by visiting http://www.biodiesel.org . The National Biodiesel Board is funded in part by the United Soybean Board and state soybean board check- off programs The U.S. Department of Agriculture is providing a satellite uplink with news from the Agricultural Research Service biodiesel outreach session. The feed is available Thursday, August 9, from 4:15 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. ET at this satellite address: TELSTAR 4 (C-Band) Transponder 23-C, Vertical, downlink frequency 4160 MHZ, 89 degrees west, Audio 6.2/6.8 Trouble number: 703-642-8585 Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- --- To change your subscription to the Renewable Energy Online Newsletter, visit: http://mail.webconx.com:8181/guest/RemoteListSummary/wcxenergy_text -- http://www.webconx.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at
Re: [biofuel] RE: Charlton Heston.
check outsome of the WW2 aircraft the germans had, one was a seaplane that had a diesel. i`ll try and find more info. greg - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] RE: Charlton Heston. Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: [biofuel] RE: Charlton Heston. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Chuck is president of the National Rifle Association (NRA). The largest most influential gun lobby in the US. The NRA is an interesting study in how a group can change over the years. It started out as a conservation group, largely for hunters who wanted to conserve the wild lands on which they hunted, and remained so for most of its existence. It has since morphed into the very picture of the right wing gun rights group, and conservation has dropped out of the picture. It has changed to the point that it has alienated many of its long time members. They are in fact the largest and most influential gun lobby in the US, but they keep needing membership drives because they lose members almost as fast as they gain them. Whenever any member of the NRA tries seriously to raise a voice for common sense or compromise, or a return the the NRA's conservationist roots, that person is almost always kicked out, and in a couple of cases people have received death threats. I don't know how much control Chuck has over the NRA. I suspect he's really a figurehead and spokes-celebrity. I am a gun owner, and I was in the past a member of the NRA, but they got too radical for my taste, so I didn't renew my membership. Alan, Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I was against the NRA. I too am a former member and gun owner who beleives in an individuals right to keep and bear arms. I am also 'plane' crazy- I would love to build and install a diesel engine in an aircraft. I know, that German company (Zoche) is making 4 and 8 cyl radial diesels for air craft, but they have been promising that for more than 10 years. :-( Regards, Joe. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] dried fuel alcohol
Dear Mr Prasenjit Ghosh There's a lot of interest here in cost-effective ways of dehydrating ethanol. Please tell us more about your technology - no need to give away any trade secrets! Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Dear Mr Shaikar Gupta, We are presently interested in introducing our highly cost effective technology for dehydration of ethanol. In this context we request you to please give us your contact details and company profile to enable us proceed further discussion. Awaiting you reply. Thanks Best regards, Prasenjit Ghosh Chemicals section Metropolitan Center, Bangla sahib road, New Delhi - 110001 Ph : ++91-11-3345481-86 Fax : ++91-11-3364420 / 3742498 -Original Message- From: shaikhar gupta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 3:22 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] dried fuel alcohol Dear Sirs, We intend to set up a Power Alcohol Plant of 20 Million liters per year capacity with Molecular Sieve Drying using 95% purity(v/v) alcohol as feedstock. 95% purity Alcohol (with 5% moisture) is readily available which we wish to purify to 99.5% purity(v/v). Steam at 6 Kg/cm2g pressure and Cooling water at 32¡C and Power at 400 Volts, 50 cycles is available. We understand you are manufacturer of Power Alcohol. Can you supply us this Alcohol Dehydration plant? Can you also give us only Technical know how and Drawings for making this plant in India. What would be your Technical fee? If you are not in a position to do either of the above, then please let us know Names and Addresses of consultants to whom we can contact for this requirement. We are thankful for your help. Thanking you, SHAIKHAR CHANDRA Purchase ManagerGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] dried fuel alcohol
Looking for information about machinery which can cut biofuel crops on rough ground, especially bracken/small birch tree size. Can anyone help? Eric Eric Donnelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: Diesel Aircraft
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: Re: [biofuel] RE: Charlton Heston. snip check outsome of the WW2 aircraft the germans had, one was a seaplane that had a diesel. i`ll try and find more info. greg Thanks, Greg. There were a lot of Early French planes that had diesels as well. Recently, there were two Frenchmen who put a 4 cyl. turbo Renault (?) diesel in a small homebuilt aircraft. Teledyne Continental, and Deltahawk are also working on 4cyl diesel aircraft engines in the 200 hp category. Wouldn't it be great to fly an aircraft using Biodoesel? (piston, Bio-d can already be used in turbine engines) Cheers, Joe Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] dried fuel alcohol
Interesting! I've been wondering for awhile now if there was any sort of machinery that combined the abilities of a brush bull (heavy bladed rotary mover used to cut brush) with a haylage/silage chopper. In other words, something that not only chops up fairly large brush, but then blows the chips into a wagon towed by the tractor. To be really effective, I'd think the unit would have to be front mounted, as most of the brush would be hard to drive over with a tractor. I've looked on the net for something like this, but haven't found anything so far. I'd think that havesting small (say 10'-12' or less) aspen and birch, for instance, on tree farms would be far more efficient than waiting until they grew to maturity and had to be logged to harvest the wood pulp. Aspen regeneration for instance often looks very much like a wheat or other grain crop for many years because the young saplings are so thick. Alder would be another good species for this. Eric Donnelly wrote: Looking for information about machinery which can cut biofuel crops on rough ground, especially bracken/small birch tree size. Can anyone help? Eric Eric Donnelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Harvester
Claas: The workshop showed that for many lignocellulosic energy crops the technical development of the harvesting equipment is at a very advanced state, not least due to the work done by CLAAS. http://www.ieabioenergy.com/ben/volume9/no1/ben971b.htm - Original Message - From: Edward Beggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:34 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Harvester Klaas: http://www.esf.edu/willow/news1/n1why.htm Danish unit: http://btgs1.ct.utwente.nl/eeci/archive/biobase/B10459.html New Uses: http://www.newuses.org/EG/EG-20/20Ann%20Report99.html Texas AM: http://www.newuses.org/EG/EG-19/19harvester.html - Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:18 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] dried fuel alcohol Interesting! I've been wondering for awhile now if there was any sort of machinery that combined the abilities of a brush bull (heavy bladed rotary mover used to cut brush) with a haylage/silage chopper. In other words, something that not only chops up fairly large brush, but then blows the chips into a wagon towed by the tractor. To be really effective, I'd think the unit would have to be front mounted, as most of the brush would be hard to drive over with a tractor. I've looked on the net for something like this, but haven't found anything so far. I'd think that havesting small (say 10'-12' or less) aspen and birch, for instance, on tree farms would be far more efficient than waiting until they grew to maturity and had to be logged to harvest the wood pulp. Aspen regeneration for instance often looks very much like a wheat or other grain crop for many years because the young saplings are so thick. Alder would be another good species for this. Eric Donnelly wrote: Looking for information about machinery which can cut biofuel crops on rough ground, especially bracken/small birch tree size. Can anyone help? Eric Eric Donnelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: Diesel Aircraft
from what i remember it had a prop on top of the body. it was so slow that it was only used on patrol on the cost. good luck greg - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] RE: Diesel Aircraft Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: Re: [biofuel] RE: Charlton Heston. snip check outsome of the WW2 aircraft the germans had, one was a seaplane that had a diesel. i`ll try and find more info. greg Thanks, Greg. There were a lot of Early French planes that had diesels as well. Recently, there were two Frenchmen who put a 4 cyl. turbo Renault (?) diesel in a small homebuilt aircraft. Teledyne Continental, and Deltahawk are also working on 4cyl diesel aircraft engines in the 200 hp category. Wouldn't it be great to fly an aircraft using Biodoesel? (piston, Bio-d can already be used in turbine engines) Cheers, Joe Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Soylent Green Fuel - The Other Green Fuel
Rabbits in pre colonial America?? Did they feed them on chocolate? Hanns -Original Message- From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2001 9:22 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Soylent Green Fuel - The Other Green Fuel There's a really good book by Anthony Burgess, author of A Clockwork Orange, called The Wanting Seed that explores the same theme of humans for food, as a solution for famine and overpopulation. The Aztecs apparently came to the same conclusion many years ago, according to some studies, with many of the bodies of sacrificial victims going for long pig and the aristocracy were known to fond of roast peasant children. They had no real domesticated food animals, other than turkeys and rabbits, and, of course, the little dog they bred especially for food as it would livestrictly on corn, the Chihuahua -- their little one burrito dog. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: Diesel Aircraft
Actually, it's strange that more diesels haven't been used in planes. The low revving powerband is ideal, most auto-gas engine conversions have to use a gear rpm reducer for the prop, since they badly lose efficiency over 2000 rpm. I suppose weight is a factor, but there have been plenty of aircooled diesels, and, in recent years, any number of water-cooled auto engine conversions. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Greg. There were a lot of Early French planes that had diesels as well. Recently, there were two Frenchmen who put a 4 cyl. turbo Renault (?) diesel in a small homebuilt aircraft. Teledyne Continental, and Deltahawk are also working on 4cyl diesel aircraft engines in the 200 hp category. Wouldn't it be great to fly an aircraft using Biodoesel? (piston, Bio-d can -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Soylent Green Fuel - The Other Green Fuel
Dear MADMAN, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2001 8:23 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Soylent Green Fuel - The Other Green Fuel snip--- (stop harvesting me with your eyes). MADMAN snip-- No, we'll beam you straight into a batch reactor. I wonder what the solidification temperature of MADMAN esters would be? Hanns [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Diesel engines and used motor oil
Maybe it would work to put the used oil in a bucket and have a rag or something hanging over the side to that the oil would wick out and get filtered at the same time. On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 06:59:02 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: Re: [biofuel] Diesel engines and used motor oil SEE: http://www.webb-sales.com/oil.html Ed B. Thanks Ed, That was interesting, I'd not seen that before. Good idea though. Hi Joe Do you know if 'washing' the used motor oil would help to get the particles out. Or would it help to clean it with a filter powder? Looking into it since some time. No recycling here in Zimbabwe. Usually its drawn into a hole on the dust roads and covered with sand after (best case... sometimes just right on the road...) Urs, I don't know what you mean by 'washing', but if you filter the oil well enough so that it doesn't plug up the fuel filter, then yes, by all means, mix it with the fuel. You are right, that is far better than dumping the used oil into a hole in the ground. Try that site from Ed again, it looks like that would work for you, although I don't know what kind of budget with which you are working. The device mixes at a rate of less than 1%, and draws the oil from the engine gallery (after it has been filtered). Also I believe there is a Cummins available that does never (or only every 100'000 miles or so) changes the oil but continuously replaces some of it with fresh oil and mixes the rest into the diesel...? (That's where I've got the idea from..) Since I have over 1000hp of diesel engines, I'm considering even collecting some of the oil if I find suitable solution... still better then if it's drawn into the ground... Thanks Urs Snip... Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- The Nissan Sentra Everything but compact http://NissanDriven.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/3vsIKC/txlCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re: [biofuel] engines and used motor oil and burning
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: Re: Re: [biofuel] engines and used motor oil and burning Would this work in a standard kereocene heater? Kyle Would what work? Joe Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] ethanol and ethyl esters apology
BlankHi Everyone, Sorry for the goof on the uspto website address. The right address is as Hanns said, www.uspto.gov . I guess I was a little tired at the time, I had read so many things last night. So please excuse the goof ! If anyone out there has any new info on using soapstock as a feedstock to make biodiesel I have been looking for a while now, and would appreciate anything anyone could pass on. Best Regards, David Cruse [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Prions
SCIENTISTS BLOCK PRIONS THAT CAUSE MAD COW DISEASE LA JOLLA, California, August 15, 2001 (ENS) - Scientists working at The Scripps Research Institute (TSRI) and at the University of California, San Francisco, have found a promising treatment for the dreaded mad cow disease and one form of the same disease in humans, called variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease. Researchers are in the final stages of developing a clinical trial for a prion antibody. For full text and graphics visit: http://ens-news.com/ens/aug2001/2001L-08-15-01.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] old news / maybe new news
The following email paste came in to me today like it'd just been located, but it turned out to be an interesting news article from May 23rd of this year. If you haven't seen it, click on through and learn about biodiesel's commercial efforts in the gambling state. Best Regards, Mark Radosevich Durango, Colorado U.S.A. p.s. I find the recent attempts to poison ethanol via its energy balance to be amusing. Back in 1980, I participated in a such a study that reviewed Eugene Schroder's farm-scale ethanol still from s.e. Colorado. The evidence then indicated a positive energy balance for ethanol. But not t positive as lots of energy was spent to plant, harvest, cook and distill grain fermented fuel ethanol. But it was still positive. I also remember that agricultural-based GASOHOL suddenly disappeared from the landscape just as soon as Ron Regan was elected in 1980. All the brouhaha about it poisioning your engine disappeared just as suddenly as well. The mockery, chicanery, untruths, misinformation,,, it was suddenly just gone! Hummm... But the very next year in 1981 gasohol magically reappeared, yet it was cloaked now. It was dispensed from new shiny gold pumps as high-octane, super premium unleaded and sold at a premium price. Just give us five tankfuls and we'll clean your fuel injectors, etc, etc. In fact, the first two TV commercials from Amoco showed Lee Travino the golfer and Wilt the Stilt the Basketball champ pumping gold fuel into a small, red-hot sports car. The musical jingle opined, I don't know, but my car knows. Try some. Various naysayers to various aspects of the on again/off again fuel alcohol movement have risen to the surface having been paid by various sources to interrupt the flows from time to time. Ethanol is experiencing the most tremendous growth in its 95-year history. But this growth is still literally driven by the power of midwestern politicians vs: the straight truth of reduced hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and particulate combustion emissions at the expense of slight growth of NOx emissions as a net result. This happens with all oxygenates whether they biodegrade into the environment or not. The bottom line for fermented ethanol (whether subsidized or not) is that a gallon of locally produced fuel has the potential of 3x to 5x local/regional economic growth multipliers to economies before somebody pumps gasoline into his/her tank and sends 66¢ of every fuel dollar on a one-way ride to the Persian Gulf. I''m signing off. *** The following web pages have been indexed since 8/13/01 and match the term biodegradable fuel: Title: ABCNEWS.com : New Fuel for Cars: Old Cooking Oil URL: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/biodiesel010523.html Description: Matching text: ...cooking oils at casino hotels and restaurants went on sale in Nevada Tuesday, the first public access fueling station in the nation to offer the **biodegradable fuel** that reduces emissions. Western Energetix Cardlock, a Reno-based division of Berry-Hinkley Industries, began offering the fuel at a station in Sparks just south... Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Diesel Aircraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am also 'plane' crazy- I would love to build and install a diesel engine in an aircraft. I know, that German company (Zoche) is making 4 and 8 cyl radial diesels for air craft, but they have been promising that for more than 10 years. :-( Regards, Joe. It's worse than that. Zoche has been promising an engine for about 15 years. I doubt it will ever happen. Apparently the German government (Germans please correct me if I'm wrong) has some sort of program which give out research grants to small businesses for the purpose of designing new products. Once they get a product to market the grant money dries up. I seriously doubt we will ever see a Zoche Aero Diesel as OEM in a production aircraft, because Zoche Aero Diesels is Georg Zoche's money machine, and he wants to keep the government money coming in. greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: check outsome of the WW2 aircraft the germans had, one was a seaplane that had a diesel. i`ll try and find more info. greg Oh, indeed, one of them was a seaplane. And what a seaplane it was! The largest seaplane in the world up to that time. The only seaplane that was larger was the Spruce Goose. It was built by either Blohm and Voss, or Dornier, I don't remember which. Unfortunately it was destroyed by allied aircraft either on or just after its maiden flight. Shame. The engines were built by Junkers, IIRC, and had some pretty interesting technology. There is a company in England which is building a diesel aircraft engine based on their design. www.dair.co.uk The Germans in WWII had more than just that one diesel powered aircraft. A number of their aircraft, including many of their bombers were also diesel powered. The Russians in WWII converted one squadron of bombers to diesel power at one point for the purpose of a raid on Berlin. Diesels were the only engines that would give them the range they needed. Their conversion was ill concieved, though, and their engines weren't anywhere nearly as reliable as the German ones. While they were able to hit Berlin, none of them made it home, due mostly to engine failures. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Greg. There were a lot of Early French planes that had diesels as well. Recently, there were two Frenchmen who put a 4 cyl. turbo Renault (?) diesel in a small homebuilt aircraft. That would probably be the Dieselis. Good looking little airplane, but underpowered IHMO. When it comes to French technology, Moraine-Renault, Renault Sport, and Aerospatiale have gotten together and spun off another company called SMA (Societe Motorisations Aeronautiques) for the purpose of building diesel aircraft engines. They have in the plans a 180 hp engine, and currently have one flying in an Aerospatiale Trinidad. I know they have a website, because I've seen it, but I can't find a bookmark for it and none of the search engines seem to spider it right now. Teledyne Continental, With a big check and a kick in the pants from Nasa. TCM has a website, but as is typical of large corporations it's useless. Lycoming also has a diesel project going in a joint venture with Detroit Diesel, but like TCM, their website us useless. and Deltahawk are also working on 4cyl diesel aircraft engines in the 200 hp category. Oh, Deltahawk has some _good_ plans! www.deltahawkengines.com Wouldn't it be great to fly an aircraft using Biodoesel? (piston, Bio-d can already be used in turbine engines) Cheers, Joe Just go to http://www.biodiesel.org/default2.htm and look at the results of using biodiesel in Baylor University's King Air. greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Big German seaplane] from what i remember it had a prop on top of the body. it was so slow that it was only used on patrol on the cost. good luck greg There were several of those. The British also had a similar flying boat for patrol in the Atlantic. Most seaplanes of the flying boat design either have the engine mounted on a pod on top of the wing, or they have a high wing configuration with the engines mounted on the wing in front of the spray line to keep the engines out of the water. Then there is the Consolidated PBY which had the entire wing mounted on a stalk above the fuselage, complete with two engines. Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, it's strange that more diesels haven't been used in planes. The low revving powerband is ideal, most auto-gas engine conversions have to use a gear rpm reducer for the prop, since they badly lose efficiency over 2000 rpm. Actually, there are several aircraft engines out there built with prop speed reduction units on them. Continental builds several of them. Probably the most common, and the most powerful is the GTSIO-520. (Geared, Turbo Supercharged, fuel Injected, Opposed, 520 CID) Continental says they'll
[biofuel] RE: Charlton Heston.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I was against the NRA. I too am a former member and gun owner who beleives in an individuals right to keep and bear arms. I know. Don't appologise if you want to bust on them. They need some busting on. I do believe in an individual's right to keep and bear arms, but there needs to be some common sense and compromize exercised in policy, and the NRA comes up short in both. If the NRA really wants to do some good for the USA then they need to get back to their conservationist roots instead of just blowing hot air in Washington about gun rights. Alan -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.org Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste. www.distributed.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Diesel aircraft engines
Subject: Re: RE: Diesel Aircraft Actually, it's strange that more diesels haven't been used in planes. The low revving powerband is ideal, most auto-gas engine conversions have to use a gear rpm reducer for the prop, since they badly lose efficiency over 2000 rpm. I suppose weight is a factor, but there have been plenty of aircooled diesels, and, in recent years, any number of water-cooled auto engine conversions. Many German aircraft of 1930-1945 were powered by the Junkers JuMo opposed piston two-stroke diesels in various sizes, with and without turbo-supercharging, including the Ju88 high altitude, high speed bomber. These were liquid cooled. Oddly enough, though the Deutz aircooled diesels have done well on the ground, the only aircooled aircraft diesels I know of are the Packard and Guiberson engines, both technically successful but neither successful in the market. The Packard was used in setting an endurance record in the Question Mark, though. The first Pratt and Whitney turboprop powerplant was also an opposed piston diesel in a sense - the PT-1 used a free-piston gas generator operating on the Diesel cycle to provide hot gas to the propulsion turbine. Recently, Renault was supposed to be working on an aeronautical diesel plant, but I have no further info. Zoche in Germany seems to have failed to achieve certification. A friend of mine did a preliminary design study on a long-endurance personal aircraft using two converted VW Rabbit (Golf) diesels - the numbers looked very nice. Then we both got involved in other things. I still have the notes on file. Basically, though, diesels make good sense for low speed, long endurance aircraft. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: Charlton Heston.
The only real problem with the NRA is they wimped out. What we need is an organization with real balls who will start bringing lawsuits and criminal charges against anyone who even mentions gun control. After all, all gun laws are illegal and unconstitutional, and anyone who proposes or tries to pass or implement them is by definition violating my civil rights, and as such obviously belongs in jail, or at least so tied up in lawsuits that they'll be dysfunctional essentially forever. That's why I no longer belong to the NRA. If they start playing it straight again and announce their intention to rid us of the oppressive state and national firearms laws, especially the machinegun laws, I'd probably start contributing again. Jefferson and Washington, et al, would have personally shot dead anyone who suggested that the 2nd Amendment had anything to do with sporting weapons, except in an ancillary way, i.e., *anything* could be used to fight a war, and likewise anyone who proposed that it didn't apply to all the people, including children and convicted felons. Read the writings of the founding fathers -- they said all this *very* clearly, over and over. The real problem is that we have a criminal organization running the country, from the top down, and it doesn't matter if it's Slick Willie or Dubbya, it's all the same, just another criminal gang. Alan S. Petrillo wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I was against the NRA. I too am a former member and gun owner who beleives in an individuals right to keep and bear arms. I know. Don't appologise if you want to bust on them. They need some busting on. I do believe in an individual's right to keep and bear arms, but there needs to be some common sense and compromize exercised in policy, and the NRA comes up short in both. If the NRA really wants to do some good for the USA then they need to get back to their conservationist roots instead of just blowing hot air in Washington about gun rights. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] RE: Charlton Heston.
Hear hear! Instead of playing baseball and football with bats and balls, let's use machine guns and really wipe out the opposition. In fact they could use them in the Senate and House of Representatives too and start there, to make a real contibution against overpopulation. Hanns -Original Message- From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 17 August 2001 1:03 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] RE: Charlton Heston. The only real problem with the NRA is they wimped out. What we need is an organization with real balls who will start bringing lawsuits and criminal charges against anyone who even mentions gun control. After all, all gun laws are illegal and unconstitutional, and anyone who proposes or tries to pass or implement them is by definition violating my civil rights, and as such obviously belongs in jail, or at least so tied up in lawsuits that they'll be dysfunctional essentially forever. That's why I no longer belong to the NRA. If they start playing it straight again and announce their intention to rid us of the oppressive state and national firearms laws, especially the machinegun laws, I'd probably start contributing again. Jefferson and Washington, et al, would have personally shot dead anyone who suggested that the 2nd Amendment had anything to do with sporting weapons, except in an ancillary way, i.e., *anything* could be used to fight a war, and likewise anyone who proposed that it didn't apply to all the people, including children and convicted felons. Read the writings of the founding fathers -- they said all this *very* clearly, over and over. The real problem is that we have a criminal organization running the country, from the top down, and it doesn't matter if it's Slick Willie or Dubbya, it's all the same, just another criminal gang. Alan S. Petrillo wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I was against the NRA. I too am a former member and gun owner who beleives in an individuals right to keep and bear arms. I know. Don't appologise if you want to bust on them. They need some busting on. I do believe in an individual's right to keep and bear arms, but there needs to be some common sense and compromize exercised in policy, and the NRA comes up short in both. If the NRA really wants to do some good for the USA then they need to get back to their conservationist roots instead of just blowing hot air in Washington about gun rights. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
