Re: [biofuel] chemistry
Please excuse my chemical terms in english. I was wondering if you could clear a couple of things I had mixed up: Greases/oils (are they called fatty acid esters in english?) (CH2OCOR-CHOCOR«-CH2OCOR) and methanol (CH3OH) form Glicerol and BD (3 RCOOR)... right? Now this reaction needs either an acid or base catalyst (E.g., dry H2SO4 or HCl... HCl? That's how you'll blow yourself away, like Alfred Nobel's brother and many many others. This is what it says among all the info in journeytoforever: CAUTION: If you run out of sulfuric acid NEVER try to make up the required volume with nitric acid. It may form small quantities of nitroG (nitroglycerine) -- even the smallest amount can cause horrible accidents. See High Explosives: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#nitrog By the way, I don't think NaOH is a true catalyst in the process. As I understand it (?), a catalyst doesn't take part in a process, merely facilitating it, and should be recoverable intact once the process is complete. You don't get to recover the NaOH (or KOH, nor even H2SO4) from transesterification (or esterification), though there may be traces in the wash water. Anyways, just follow the instructions carefully and you'll be right. If you use a single-stage process, it pays to take extra care with accurate titration, especially with heavily used cooking oils. If you do it right you won't get much soap, if any. With methoxide, I think it's the other way round: the mixing forms the compound and produces an exothermic reaction. Anyway, just mix it thoroughly (and carefully!!), be accurate with your measures. Make mini-batches first, with one or two litres, until you get used to the process. Observe all the safety precautions. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ OR NaOH) (here is where I get mixed up).. but NaOH would react with the greases/oils to form glicerol soap (3RCOONa)... So I assume the Sodium methoxide is a more efficient catalyst because it doesen«t form as much soap? On the other hand, I traditionally thought sodium methoxide CH3O(-)Na(+) was synthesised mainly from dry alcohols and metallic sodium (difficult to find + expensive + dangerous). But from what I gather from all the info in journeytoforever, just mixing methanol and NaOH (lye) produces an exothermic reaction which forms sodium methoxide. ÀIs this the catalyst or a reactant? If it is a catalyst, is it the dissociated (is that how you say it?) sodium from the CH3ONa that reacts with the fatty esters (greases/oils) to form the bothersome soap which is so important to get rid of in the washing stages? I know all this sounds a bit too chemical, but if anyone feels comfortable enough to speak in these terms, please enlighten me a bit. Tank you. (+ Happy new year) Regards, Christian Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Keith and his I've said it all along,
k5farms wrote: this stuff has to much value to be dumping it in our tanks Huh? I don't think I said that. It does say this on our site: Other uses: Biodiesel is very useful stuff. We must be crazy to burn it! Mike Pelly once said, only half-jokingly. Also lists AMG 2000, at Biodiesel resources on the Web: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html Biodiesel in the future The future of motor oil -- Developed by Agro Management Group of Colorado Springs, AMG 2000 is a special-formula all-vegetable premium crankcase lubricant designed for and tested in a wide range of air-cooled and water-cooled 4-cycle engines. The first-ever completely renewable and biodegradable engine oil that stands up to today's stringent industry standards. Independent tests show that emissions from engines run with AMG 2000 are lower than engines run with petroleum oil. Cost-competitive with modern petroleum lubricants. Produced in partnership with a farmers' cooperative, AMG 2000 is currently being used by the Michigan state government. AMG 2000 is the first ever vegetable based motor oil for four cycle engines: http://www.agromgt.com/prod01.htm Bio-based Motor Oil Lauded for Environmental Payback: http://www.agromgt.com/pr01.htm I am inclined to say that people make too much fuss over NOx. Joshua also says that, so does the NBB, and lotsa folks. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Interested in lowering NOx emissions up to 80%??? http://www.unitedsoybean.org/lib_fs_frame.cfm?ID=8 In April, we brought you Phase 2 test results of AMG 2000, a vegetable-based engine oil developed with soybean checkoff funding by Agro Management Group, Inc., of Colorado Springs, Colo. The Phase 2 testing confirmed that AMG 2000 significantly reduces harmful emissions of hydrocarbons (HC) and carbon monoxide (CO). In addition to these reducing these harmful emissions, another emission was greatly reduced. Nitrogen oxide (NOx) was reduced by nearly 80 percent in city driving and between 30 and 60 percent in highway driving. The decrease in NOx emissions was a surprise, as there were no deliberate changes in the air/fuel ration, the combustion temperature or the ignition timing - the combination of which control NOx emissions. However, the lowering of HC and NOx exhaust should significantly lower the amount of smog in urban areas. Since the Phase 2 testing, a fine-tuning study was done to find a means to control lead levels in the oil. The results of Phase 2 found that the vegetable oil was such an effective detergent that it caused lead concentrations to increase throughout the duration of the fill after changing from petroleum oil to AMG 2000. The lead concentrations were determined to be harmful to the viscosity stability of the vegetable-based oil. A high efficiency oil filter and chemical agents were used to control the levels of lead. Using the high efficiency filter alone made a difference in the lead level, rising quickly initially, but then maintaining a constant value. By comparing the viscosity levels between Phase 2 testing and the fine-tuning study, controlling lead levels proved to be beneficial. Controlling the lead levels keeps the viscosity rise level for up to 3000 miles, or an equivalent of five to six months of U.S. Postal Service vehicle operation. For more information regarding AMG 2000, log on to Agro Management's Web site at www.agromgt.com. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Toilet bowl cleaners you can drink?
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :-) Always said the stuff's too good to burn in your motor. Nice story, thanks. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Well, close! I do think its great there is an alternative(renewable) source of engine lubricants that by all means, appear to be superior to crude based products, why not sell motor oil for $8.00/ gallon, looks to be a better profit potential than a motor fuel? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] chemistry
Please excuse my chemical terms in english. I was wondering if you could clear a couple of things I had mixed up: Greases/oils (are they called fatty acid esters in english?) (CH2OCOR-CHOCOR«-CH2OCOR) and methanol (CH3OH) form Glicerol and BD (3 RCOOR)... right? Now this reaction needs either an acid or base catalyst (E.g., dry H2SO4 or HCl... HCl? That's how you'll blow yourself away, like Alfred Nobel's brother and many many others. This is what it says among all the info in journeytoforever: Whoops! Sorry - that's hydrochloric acid not nitric acid. (Need some sleep!) Anyway, use sulphuric acid (H2SO4). Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ CAUTION: If you run out of sulfuric acid NEVER try to make up the required volume with nitric acid. It may form small quantities of nitroG (nitroglycerine) -- even the smallest amount can cause horrible accidents. See High Explosives: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#nitrog By the way, I don't think NaOH is a true catalyst in the process. As I understand it (?), a catalyst doesn't take part in a process, merely facilitating it, and should be recoverable intact once the process is complete. You don't get to recover the NaOH (or KOH, nor even H2SO4) from transesterification (or esterification), though there may be traces in the wash water. Anyways, just follow the instructions carefully and you'll be right. If you use a single-stage process, it pays to take extra care with accurate titration, especially with heavily used cooking oils. If you do it right you won't get much soap, if any. With methoxide, I think it's the other way round: the mixing forms the compound and produces an exothermic reaction. Anyway, just mix it thoroughly (and carefully!!), be accurate with your measures. Make mini-batches first, with one or two litres, until you get used to the process. Observe all the safety precautions. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ OR NaOH) (here is where I get mixed up).. but NaOH would react with the greases/oils to form glicerol soap (3RCOONa)... So I assume the Sodium methoxide is a more efficient catalyst because it doesen«t form as much soap? On the other hand, I traditionally thought sodium methoxide CH3O(-)Na(+) was synthesised mainly from dry alcohols and metallic sodium (difficult to find + expensive + dangerous). But from what I gather from all the info in journeytoforever, just mixing methanol and NaOH (lye) produces an exothermic reaction which forms sodium methoxide. ÀIs this the catalyst or a reactant? If it is a catalyst, is it the dissociated (is that how you say it?) sodium from the CH3ONa that reacts with the fatty esters (greases/oils) to form the bothersome soap which is so important to get rid of in the washing stages? I know all this sounds a bit too chemical, but if anyone feels comfortable enough to speak in these terms, please enlighten me a bit. Tank you. (+ Happy new year) Regards, Christian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: chemistry (Bryan)
Thanks Bryan Best wishes, Christian. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] chemistry
Thanks Keith. Though I must clear out something... I was talking of HCl, Hydrochloric acid, not Nitric Acid (HNO3), which I do understand is a main chemical in the synthesis of various explosives (a friend of a close friend of mine did pass away in a lab explosion some years ago). The reference to HCl was found in the Morrison Boyd book on organic chemistry (I think it`s Prentice, or Mc Graw) One thing more, somewhere in journeytoforever it said small batches were exothermic enough to maintain the temperature close enough to 55 ¼C. If so, up to what volume is this true? Thanks for the advice concern. Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Send FREE Holiday eCards from Yahoo! Greetings. http://us.click.yahoo.com/IgTaHA/ZQdDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: SVO without a diesel start/purge
has the BMW 2.5L diesel engine. I own and run a BMW powered by this fabulous diesel-its the best kept secret in the UK 50mpg at 80mph!!!. I would love to run it on SVO at 21p/litre--how can I do this?. I intend to run on SVO from Friar's Pride at 21p/litre. I don't want to make any obvious modifications to the car, as this will require a SVA (Single Vehicle Approval) certificate and insurance as a modified vehicle which I want to avaoid, so an extra fuel tank is out of the question. I intend to use an additive package and discrete heating devices, so that I can start and run on SVO. Can;t wait to get my oil burner! Richard - straight veg oil in his diesel car. it worked fine untill the petodiesel had diluted away, then it wouldnt start in the mornings. He didnt stop there, but just started mixing petrodiesel and Veg oil from the supermarket. I dont know what it did to his engine, it was during a mini fuel crisis here in England last year. Thanks, Tim. __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] chemistry water
Dear Bryan, I got a bit mixed up with the water... ÀWhich reaction produces it? If this is an equilibrium reaction, Àcan«t you turn it towards the products side by adding more meth? Best, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] chemistry
Thanks Keith. Though I must clear out something... I was talking of HCl, Hydrochloric acid, not Nitric Acid (HNO3), which I do understand is a main chemical in the synthesis of various explosives (a friend of a close friend of mine did pass away in a lab explosion some years ago). Yep, sorry, 'twas a bit late in the night - please see correction posted later. The reference to HCl was found in the Morrison Boyd book on organic chemistry (I think it`s Prentice, or Mc Graw) If you get any positive results with HCl, please let us know. One thing more, somewhere in journeytoforever it said small batches were exothermic enough to maintain the temperature close enough to 55 ¼C. If so, up to what volume is this true? I doubt it - you'll have to find the reference please. The exothermic reaction's over by the time the methoxide's properly mixed and you add it to the oil, I don't see how it could have any effect on maintaining the process temp. Mike Pelly says this, in discussing Test batches: Start by mixing up the lye and methanol in a blender (one that will never be used for food again). First make sure the blender and all utensils used are dry. Forming the exothermal sodium methoxide polar molecule will heat up the blender container a bit. Keep mixing until all the lye has been dissolved. He certainly doesn't say it provides enough heat for the transesterification process itself. Anyway his test batches are with one litre of WVO, the methoxide uses only 150 ml of methanol and 6.25 g NaOH, not very much heat there. I suggest you read it all again. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html Biodiesel recipe from Mike Pelly Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Thanks for the advice concern. Regards, Christian Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
