Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] SVO versus BD
Thanks, Keith, for the reply. I agree with you. SVO and BD users should be informed about the pro and contra arguments and then make their choice. And I think it is important to see the long term options. Kind regards Reinhard Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Reinhard Henning wrote: Albert Einstein often said: Use the simplest thing that works, as long as it's the best thing. The proviso is critical, and in many cases it's context-sensitive - I believe this is the case with the biodiesel vs SVO argument. In the end it boils down to a matter of particular circumstances and individual preferences. This in mind one should compare the two actual possibilities to use plant oil as fuel: 1) adaptation of the oil to the engine (bio-diesel, BD) 2) modification of the engine to run on pure plant oil (straight vegetable oil, svo) Plant oil is pure stored solar energy in its densiest form (9,2 kg /l). It contains only the elements carbon C, hydrogen H and oxygen O. In the simplest way it is produced only by grinding of seeds and pressing (ram presses, expellers) it. Purification by sedimentation and / or filtration: Can somebody imagine a simpler method of producing highly concentrated, environmentally friendly energy. In a short term planning, it is interesting to use biodiesel, because you can use the already existing car engines. But in a longer perspective, it is more interesting to adapt the engines to run on pure plant oil (SVO). And you have all the advantages of an decentralized fuekl production. And you dont need a chemical workshop to produce your own fuele at home. A ram press for about 200 $ and some plastc barrel is all you need. That is not convincing Reinhard. In the future more diesels will probably be adapted to SVO use, but that will leave millions of vehicles all over the world not so adapted, bringing us back to the same choice between making biodiesel and rigging a two-tank system with heating etc to use SVO... on some vehicles, maybe not on others, whereas biodiesel will work in any diesel. There is also a shortage of good, long-term studies on the effects of using SVO, unlike with biodiesel, and no long-term studies on the use of WVO that I'm aware of. None of the European manufacturers of SVO systems covers the use of WVO, right? Biodiesel also gives you the advantage of decentralised fuel production. There is no need to have a chemical workshop to produce biodiesel at home. It is simple. $200 would more than cover the costs of everything needed to make biodiesel, and no need for a ram press. For the mean time, you can convert your diesel engines into plant oil engines (the still run on diesel). The conversion kits are not expensive, but they are a bit different for one engine or the other. (The Mercedes 123 engine doesn't have to be modified at all. You just run it with SVO. If its cold, you add some diesel. Some kits are better than others. Some kits are not to be recommended at all. Some manufacturers claim their kits are suitable for any diesel in any climate, using WVO, and this is not true. But people buy these kits anyway, and there are plenty of stories of ruined pumps. Again, I know of no such stories with biodiesel use. And WVO remains a problem. If this valuable waste resource, used by many or most small-scale biodiesel makers, is to be used in straight SVO systems it has to be pre-treated, with not much less processing required than that needed to make biodiesel. And you still won't have the guaranteed results that biodiesel will give you. In Germany, the producer of the tractors for agriculture are already very interested to offer SVO-versions of their diersel engines to the farmers (Deutz, John Deere). So in a short future, probably the truck engine producers will do the same and later the car engine producers. Which still leaves the older motors, especially in the Third World. Another important argument for the use of SVO instead of BD is the energy input for its production. With BD it is about 1/3, i.e. you need about 30% of the energy of 1 litre of BD to produce 1 litre of BD (in form of Merthanol or aethanol, chemicals, destillation/purification). That depends very much on how it's done, and in what setting. For the production of SVO you need only about 15 % (12 % for agriculture, 3 % for oil extraction). If you use ecological advanced production methods, you can reduce these 12 % considerably. Your second sentence applies to on-farm biodiesel production too. I have some arguments with Schrimpff's chart as well. Ernst Schrimpff of the Tecnical College of Weihenstephan, Germany, listed 8 parameters to compare SVO with BD. Here his list (partly): see also the attachment or: http://jatropha.org/p-o-engines/svo-bd-characteristics.htm Plant oil (SVO)
[biofuels-biz] EREN Network News -- 07/10/02
= EREN NETWORK NEWS -- July 10, 2002 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN). http://www.eren.doe.gov/ = Featuring: *News and Events Solar Power to be Standard in Two California Communities New Solar Power Systems Come to California, Massachusetts Utah and California Organizations Buy Green Power Projects Map Western Renewables and Pennsylvania Wind Energy DOE Awards $15 Million to Michigan for Home Weatherization U.S. Companies Mark Advances in Hybrid Vehicle Technologies Study: Ethanol Production Plants Boost Local Economies *Site News American Council for Renewable Energy *Energy Facts and Tips Study Confirms That Urban Heat Islands Cause Downwind Rain *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- Solar Power to be Standard in Two California Communities AstroPower, Inc. and Clarum Homes announced on June 24th a new agreement that will make solar electric systems a standard feature on homes in two northern California communities. AstroPower will provide 277 solar electric systems over the next three years for homes in the new Clarum communities of Vista Montana in Watsonville and Shorebreeze IV in East Palo Alto. The systems will be a standard feature on every home and will range from 1.2 to 3.2 kilowatts in generating capacity. Clarum will also include energy efficiency features in the new homes that, combined with the solar electric system, should reduce energy use in the homes by 60 percent relative to comparable homes in the area. See the AstroPower press release at: http://www.astropower.com/press_releases.htm. Homes in southeastern Pennsylvania may feature a growing number of solar electric installations through an incentive program launched last month by the Energy Cooperative. The Philadelphia-based company is offering to pay consumers 20 cents per kilowatt-hour for power produced by solar electric systems installed on their homes. The Cooperative's goal is to purchase 100,000 kilowatt-hours of solar power by the end of this year. To take advantage of the program, customers must be members of the Energy Cooperative and must purchase the Co-op's EcoChoice 100 brand of 100 percent renewable energy. The system must meet specific criteria and must include a separate meter to measure its output. The Energy Cooperative has already signed its first purchase agreement with customer Andy Rudin of Melrose Park, who installed a 2.7-kilowatt system. See the Energy Cooperative press release at: http://www.theenergyco-op.com/Solar%20Press%20Release.htm. Are you considering installing a solar power system on your home? A recent DOE-funded report examines the economics of such installations on a state-by-state basis, taking into account each state's typical electricity costs, incentive programs, and solar resources. In the top-rated state, New York, the solar power system can cost as much as $13,556 per kilowatt of capacity and still pay for itself over its expected lifetime. In the lowest-ranked state, Kentucky, the system cost needs to drop to $1,200 per kilowatt if you ever want it to pay for itself. See the report, Customer-Sited Photovoltaics: State Market Analysis on the Interstate Renewable Energy Council Web site at: http://www.irecusa.org/articles/static/1/1022567652_1018302086.html. New Solar Power Systems Come to California, Massachusetts There has been a number of large solar power installations in California recently, including a 33-kilowatt installation on Lunardi's Market in Burlingame, dedicated in late May, and a 10-kilowatt installation in late June on the common house of the Muir Commons co-housing community in Davis. The Muir Commons installation was performed as part of a hands-on photovoltaic solar panel design and installation workshop, for which participants were charged $650 apiece. See the PowerLight Corporation and Muir Commons press releases at: http://www.powerlight.com/pr/may-23-2002-lunardis.html and http://www.muircommons.org/pv/. A large solar power installation is also planned for Massachusetts. Northern Power Systems has been commissioned to design and install a 26.4-kilowatt solar electric system for the Woods Hole Research Center's new Ordway Campus in Falmouth. The Massachusetts Technology Collaborative is funding the project through a $226,308 grant. See the press releases from Northern Power (in PDF format only) and from the Woods Hole Research Center at: http://www.northernpower.com/media/pdf/woods-hole.pdf and http://www.whrc.org/news/setMRETgrant.htm. Utah and California Organizations Buy Green Power Recent green power purchases by two non-profit
[biofuels-biz] Re: Enter the bulldozer - ADM
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ed Beggs sent me this, along with the comment: Here come the big boys, I reckon. Everybody else prepare to be bulldozed. Personally I think they're fat and flabby, no match for all you lean and mean biodiesel guerrillas out there. Keith I'll hold my position somewhere between Ed and Keith. Now that the little guys have done the groundwork in developing and proving the product and the market, the big guys can come in and mop up using the economy of scale. Anyone who still persists will get teh same treatment as Yellow got. Homemade fuel producers will be similar to homemade whiskey producers. Motie gone guerilla! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] home heating oil
Mani: One thing we have in the USA is rules imposed by the government in the 1980s for more energy efficient homes. This has caused homes to be closed up with little of no air circulating through them. The result is rot and mildew that is causing respiratory problems that show up first in children and older folks. Richard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: home heating oil
Does anyone know more about this supposed wicking problem? One reply I got off list talked about using biodiesel in a home heater (didn't hve too much details about what design the thing was, though) but said they ahd to start it on dinodiesel and that SVO didn't work at all. I've heard something or another about wicks being a problem but I thought it had more to do with the wicks burning up more often, or carbonizing more, or something like that. Is this true? I have used plenty of biodiesel in a Whisperlite XGK cookstove (that's a tiny multifuel backpacker stove that uses diesel or kerosene) and it is hardish to start the thing (I've never run diesel or kerosene in it for comparison, though, just volatile 'white gas'). It's a wick-type thing, I think. Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This also interests me greatly and I'd love to hear about others' solutions in this department. In winter I heat and (partially) illuminate my home with Aladdin stoves and lanterns (my understanding is that biodiesel does not work with these wick-based devices); I also get hot water year-round from a sophisticated kerosene instantaneous (i.e., no reservoir tank) hot water heater that I strongly suspect would work fine with biodiesel. A dual fuel system (biodiesel + SVO) would probably work too but since hot water is used sporadically, for only a few minutes at a time, it wouldn't be practical. However, there are boilers (here in Japan at least) that are specifically designed to be capable of burning WVO. The Petromax lantern and similar designs (Chinese imitations, etc.) will work fine with biodiesel (and most other flammable liquids, including ethanol); however they produce such an intensely bright light that you probably wouldn't want to use one inside your home. (Especially in hot weather!) You can also get cookstoves that are based on the Petromax design and I'm sure they work well. You could probably build a simple but effective hot water heater around these. There is also the old standby Perfection type cookstove but since they use wicks I assume (based on what I have read) that biodiesel won't work with them. -- Chris Witmer Tokyo mark fire wrote: Could someone post some info about experiences using biodiesel or SVO for home heating oil? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: home heating oil
Hallo Mark, I think biodiesel can be used easily in wick type stoves and lamps. SVO on the other hand cannot be used with wicks, because its viscosity is too high, it does not get transported by the capillary forces, like kerosene. I tried to explain this facts in a small drawing, which you can visit at: http://jatropha.org/lamps/princ-burning.htm Since SVO is not vaporizing like kerosene, and is not replaced by new material by capillary forces in the wick, the wick itself burns and has to be replaced quite often. The SVO molekules are cracked by the heat of the flame, and a carbon deposit is formed. After some hours the flame fades, because the supply of SVO via the carbon layer is diminishing. Regards Reinhard Henning girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Does anyone know more about this supposed wicking problem? One reply I got off list talked about using biodiesel in a home heater (didn't hve too much details about what design the thing was, though) but said they ahd to start it on dinodiesel and that SVO didn't work at all. I've heard something or another about wicks being a problem but I thought it had more to do with the wicks burning up more often, or carbonizing more, or something like that. Is this true? I have used plenty of biodiesel in a Whisperlite XGK cookstove (that's a tiny multifuel backpacker stove that uses diesel or kerosene) and it is hardish to start the thing (I've never run diesel or kerosene in it for comparison, though, just volatile 'white gas'). It's a wick-type thing, I think. Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This also interests me greatly and I'd love to hear about others' solutions in this department. In winter I heat and (partially) illuminate my home with Aladdin stoves and lanterns (my understanding is that biodiesel does not work with these wick-based devices); I also get hot water year-round from a sophisticated kerosene instantaneous (i.e., no reservoir tank) hot water heater that I strongly suspect would work fine with biodiesel. A dual fuel system (biodiesel + SVO) would probably work too but since hot water is used sporadically, for only a few minutes at a time, it wouldn't be practical. However, there are boilers (here in Japan at least) that are specifically designed to be capable of burning WVO. The Petromax lantern and similar designs (Chinese imitations, etc.) will work fine with biodiesel (and most other flammable liquids, including ethanol); however they produce such an intensely bright light that you probably wouldn't want to use one inside your home. (Especially in hot weather!) You can also get cookstoves that are based on the Petromax design and I'm sure they work well. You could probably build a simple but effective hot water heater around these. There is also the old standby Perfection type cookstove but since they use wicks I assume (based on what I have read) that biodiesel won't work with them. -- Chris Witmer Tokyo mark fire wrote: Could someone post some info about experiences using biodiesel or SVO for home heating oil? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration,
Dear Christian, well first of all thank you very much for all the information, really good. To the Crest contact: The person in charge for further questions is :Allison White: [EMAIL PROTECTED] she is able to answer your questions about formal matters. Also a look onto the website might help: http://www.lboro.ac.uk/crest/MSC/index.htm As I know is there no possibility to get it funded, otherwise I would have tried it, but try it your own, it is perhaps worth. So far. Much lick and the best. Regards, Andreas. -Original Message- From: William Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 July 2002 01:13 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration, Her is a link for MSDS on anhydrous S.M.. http://www.alkalimetals.com/MSDS/SODIUM%20METHOXIDE%20MSDS.htm Does anyone know anything about this substance? Bill C. - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration, Hi Andreas. I doubt I«ll be able t answer all your questions but I«ll see if I can help a bit. My name is Andreas Jansen, student for Environmental Management in The Netherlands, however since a year taking part at the MSc for Renewable Energy Systems Technology at Crest in Loughborough, UK. My dissertation started 4 weeks ago and is about the topic biodiesel. Therefore I have to optimise a small-scale prototype installation running on used cooking oil for a company, which is just three years in business, not having much experience yet, which makes the work and support for me sometimes rather difficult. For this I read lot of abstracts, however my chemical background is not so very strong, still for some understanding sufficient. However there are some topics where I struggle with and cannot find an answer to: 1. When considering Sodium Hydroxide as catalyst for alkaline based transesterification I wonder about the following things: A reaction mechanism tells me, that the methanol and sodium hydroxide form S.M. and water. S.M. catalyses the transesterification and at the end the H+-ion from the previous formed water is deprotonated by the diglyceride-ion (or later mono-glyceride- or even later glycerol- ion) to form a fully alcohol group and finally glycerol. My concern is whether this combination of H+-ion and (di)glyceride-ion is necessary to occur or whether in the glycerol-layer after separation also (di)glyceride-ions may be found if not all (di)glyceride-ions have had combined with the H+-ions from the water? A catalyst should be found back at the end (if not saponified), that is what a catalyst defines, or? Therefore only glycerol but no (di)glyceride-ions should be found? Furthermore, if now assumed that anhydrous S.M. powder as catalyst is used, would that (under the assumption that H+-ions must react with a (di)glyceride-ions to form the glycerol) mean, that water must be deprotonated and if water is initially present in the oil this water would be removed, thus lowering the saponification reaction between f.f.a., water and Na+-ions?? That would be quite a benefit to consider buying S.M. powder instead of producing S.M. self by mixing Me-OH and NaOH! I was unaware of the fact you could buy dehydrated S.M. This would be a great improvement, as it would reduce the ammount of water in the transesterification. The term catalyst must be carefully used here. From what I recover, the catalyst will be somewhat consumed hence disrupting its own definition. Even more complex solid catalysts used in complex industries (as pharmaceutical), often patented salts like Titanium tetraalcoxides and so, will probably serve for 20 or so reactions. The end product may always have rmains of mono- di- glycerides, as 100% efficiency is not possible. 2. When doing previous the reaction a titration to determine the degree of f.f.a. I take 1 ml oil and dissolve it in 10 ml iso- propanol. pH meter and litmus-pH-paper give different results during titration and the indicator (phenolphthalein) is not behaving like expected. It first tends only very, very light purple but remains like this, only if ~0,5 ml more NaOH solution is added (than at a pH of 10) it is turning totally purple. I thought a indicator colours or does not but the very light purple colour which stays and does not disappears after stirring more confuses me a lot? Concerning the difference in pH meter and paper I think to trust the meter, but if the oil is not dissolved good it might form a film around the measuring electrode and therefore diminishing the measurement? Right. Remember you still have a polar
Re: [biofuel] Re: home heating oil
I tried to use a wick type roomheater (Zibro kamin) designed for kerosine use with biodiesel. It did well for a couple of days, after that the wick didn't work no more. This was an expensive glassfiber wick :-( John - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: home heating oil Hallo Mark, I think biodiesel can be used easily in wick type stoves and lamps. SVO on the other hand cannot be used with wicks, because its viscosity is too high, it does not get transported by the capillary forces, like kerosene. I tried to explain this facts in a small drawing, which you can visit at: http://jatropha.org/lamps/princ-burning.htm Since SVO is not vaporizing like kerosene, and is not replaced by new material by capillary forces in the wick, the wick itself burns and has to be replaced quite often. The SVO molekules are cracked by the heat of the flame, and a carbon deposit is formed. After some hours the flame fades, because the supply of SVO via the carbon layer is diminishing. Regards Reinhard Henning girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Does anyone know more about this supposed wicking problem? One reply I got off list talked about using biodiesel in a home heater (didn't hve too much details about what design the thing was, though) but said they ahd to start it on dinodiesel and that SVO didn't work at all. I've heard something or another about wicks being a problem but I thought it had more to do with the wicks burning up more often, or carbonizing more, or something like that. Is this true? I have used plenty of biodiesel in a Whisperlite XGK cookstove (that's a tiny multifuel backpacker stove that uses diesel or kerosene) and it is hardish to start the thing (I've never run diesel or kerosene in it for comparison, though, just volatile 'white gas'). It's a wick-type thing, I think. Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This also interests me greatly and I'd love to hear about others' solutions in this department. In winter I heat and (partially) illuminate my home with Aladdin stoves and lanterns (my understanding is that biodiesel does not work with these wick-based devices); I also get hot water year-round from a sophisticated kerosene instantaneous (i.e., no reservoir tank) hot water heater that I strongly suspect would work fine with biodiesel. A dual fuel system (biodiesel + SVO) would probably work too but since hot water is used sporadically, for only a few minutes at a time, it wouldn't be practical. However, there are boilers (here in Japan at least) that are specifically designed to be capable of burning WVO. The Petromax lantern and similar designs (Chinese imitations, etc.) will work fine with biodiesel (and most other flammable liquids, including ethanol); however they produce such an intensely bright light that you probably wouldn't want to use one inside your home. (Especially in hot weather!) You can also get cookstoves that are based on the Petromax design and I'm sure they work well. You could probably build a simple but effective hot water heater around these. There is also the old standby Perfection type cookstove but since they use wicks I assume (based on what I have read) that biodiesel won't work with them. -- Chris Witmer Tokyo mark fire wrote: Could someone post some info about experiences using biodiesel or SVO for home heating oil? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo!
[biofuel] Hydrogen from Biomass
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=15289502 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] SVO versus BD
I strongly agree with Keith. SVO vs biodiesel? Neither should be dismissed each has it's place. Is very dependant on the individual situation:- What engine? Resources available for processing oils or converting vehicles. Vehicle use patterns. Vehicle operator/owners preference etc. etc. Clearly biodiesel has the greatest short term opportunities especially for transportation fuels. There has been many reports of successful SVO systems and trouble free use. There have also been problems reported but this is not exclusive to SVO use - biodiesel users especially home brewers encounter problems also. The main difference as I see it is that biodiesel fuel has been extensively researched world wide in many different engines and made from many different oil feedstock's. SVO especially WVO use remains a bit of a grey area as far as hard scientific research goes. I have seen many studies looking at vegetable oils suitability. Most conclude SVO is to thick and brush it aside as unsuitable and instead study biodiesel. There are a few good studies of SVO out there on the web: (not many that cover pre heating the oil) -The much touted ACREVO project report - very good detailed research. http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm -Available on the web but I don't have the link handy. should be able to find it with a search engine (good news for IDI's running in Africa) FACT-Vol. 12. Solid Fuel Conversion for the Transportation Sector ASME 1991 TECHNICAL OVERVIEW OF VEGETABLE OIL AS A TRANSPORTATION FUEL Charles L. Peterson and Dick L. Auld Department of Agricultural Engineering University of Idaho Moscow, Idaho -Biocar site has a thesis research project into the use of their kit to run SVO. In German http://www.biocar.de/ Part English translation http://www.vegburner.co.uk/biocar.html (thank you Stephan) -Ed Beggs has his Renewable Oil Fuels... thesis available on his site http://www.biofuels.ca -Another one that I haven't got the link handy Waste Vegetable Oil As A Diesel Replacement Fuel Phillip Calais* and AR (Tony) Clark** * Environmental Science, Murdoch University, Perth, Australia, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Western Australian Renewable Fuels Association Inc, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plenty more that go into blending vegetable oil with solvents, diesel, petrol etc. More information on SVO and WVO use is required. Does anyone know of any other scientific reports of SVO use or any studies in progress? There is the very useful FMSO Database of SVO vehicles in German. A great resource worth a look even if you can't read German http://www.fmso.de/ click on the Mehr als 300 Autos in der: Fahrzeugdatenbank! link Darren Hill www.vegburner.co.uk -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09 July 2002 18:33 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] SVO versus BD Reinhard Henning wrote: Albert Einstein often said: Use the simplest thing that works, as long as it's the best thing. The proviso is critical, and in many cases it's context-sensitive - I believe this is the case with the biodiesel vs SVO argument. In the end it boils down to a matter of particular circumstances and individual preferences. This in mind one should compare the two actual possibilities to use plant oil as fuel: 1) adaptation of the oil to the engine (bio-diesel, BD) 2) modification of the engine to run on pure plant oil (straight vegetable oil, svo) Plant oil is pure stored solar energy in its densiest form (9,2 kg /l). It contains only the elements carbon C, hydrogen H and oxygen O. In the simplest way it is produced only by grinding of seeds and pressing (ram presses, expellers) it. Purification by sedimentation and / or filtration: Can somebody imagine a simpler method of producing highly concentrated, environmentally friendly energy. In a short term planning, it is interesting to use biodiesel, because you can use the already existing car engines. But in a longer perspective, it is more interesting to adapt the engines to run on pure plant oil (SVO). And you have all the advantages of an decentralized fuekl production. And you dont need a chemical workshop to produce your own fuele at home. A ram press for about 200 $ and some plastc barrel is all you need. That is not convincing Reinhard. In the future more diesels will probably be adapted to SVO use, but that will leave millions of vehicles all over the world not so adapted, bringing us back to the same choice between making biodiesel and rigging a two-tank system with heating etc to use SVO... on some vehicles, maybe not on others, whereas biodiesel will work in any diesel. There is also a shortage of good, long-term studies on the effects of using SVO, unlike with biodiesel, and no long-term studies on the use of WVO that I'm aware of. None of the European manufacturers of SVO systems covers the use of WVO, right? Biodiesel also
Re: [biofuel] Re: home heating oil
In a message dated 07/09/2002 10:43:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is Dipetane? Mark: See our web sites at www.DipetaneUSA.com and www.Dipetane.com Richard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] home heating oil
In a message dated 07/09/2002 11:59:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm no architect, but it would seem to me to be possible to comply with the government rules and still maintain adequate circulation. If that is the case, then the rotting and mildewing houses would have to be the fault of builders' poor design decisions, rather than the fault of the government regulations per se . . . Chris Witmer Tokyo Chris: The regulations detailed what must be done to make a house more efficient. Included was vapor barriers...the houses cannot breathe like they once could hence mold and respiratory problems. You have too much faith in government regulations being correct. Richard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] EREN Network News -- 07/10/02
= EREN NETWORK NEWS -- July 10, 2002 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN). http://www.eren.doe.gov/ = Featuring: *News and Events Solar Power to be Standard in Two California Communities New Solar Power Systems Come to California, Massachusetts Utah and California Organizations Buy Green Power Projects Map Western Renewables and Pennsylvania Wind Energy DOE Awards $15 Million to Michigan for Home Weatherization U.S. Companies Mark Advances in Hybrid Vehicle Technologies Study: Ethanol Production Plants Boost Local Economies *Site News American Council for Renewable Energy *Energy Facts and Tips Study Confirms That Urban Heat Islands Cause Downwind Rain *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- Solar Power to be Standard in Two California Communities AstroPower, Inc. and Clarum Homes announced on June 24th a new agreement that will make solar electric systems a standard feature on homes in two northern California communities. AstroPower will provide 277 solar electric systems over the next three years for homes in the new Clarum communities of Vista Montana in Watsonville and Shorebreeze IV in East Palo Alto. The systems will be a standard feature on every home and will range from 1.2 to 3.2 kilowatts in generating capacity. Clarum will also include energy efficiency features in the new homes that, combined with the solar electric system, should reduce energy use in the homes by 60 percent relative to comparable homes in the area. See the AstroPower press release at: http://www.astropower.com/press_releases.htm. Homes in southeastern Pennsylvania may feature a growing number of solar electric installations through an incentive program launched last month by the Energy Cooperative. The Philadelphia-based company is offering to pay consumers 20 cents per kilowatt-hour for power produced by solar electric systems installed on their homes. The Cooperative's goal is to purchase 100,000 kilowatt-hours of solar power by the end of this year. To take advantage of the program, customers must be members of the Energy Cooperative and must purchase the Co-op's EcoChoice 100 brand of 100 percent renewable energy. The system must meet specific criteria and must include a separate meter to measure its output. The Energy Cooperative has already signed its first purchase agreement with customer Andy Rudin of Melrose Park, who installed a 2.7-kilowatt system. See the Energy Cooperative press release at: http://www.theenergyco-op.com/Solar%20Press%20Release.htm. Are you considering installing a solar power system on your home? A recent DOE-funded report examines the economics of such installations on a state-by-state basis, taking into account each state's typical electricity costs, incentive programs, and solar resources. In the top-rated state, New York, the solar power system can cost as much as $13,556 per kilowatt of capacity and still pay for itself over its expected lifetime. In the lowest-ranked state, Kentucky, the system cost needs to drop to $1,200 per kilowatt if you ever want it to pay for itself. See the report, Customer-Sited Photovoltaics: State Market Analysis on the Interstate Renewable Energy Council Web site at: http://www.irecusa.org/articles/static/1/1022567652_1018302086.html. New Solar Power Systems Come to California, Massachusetts There has been a number of large solar power installations in California recently, including a 33-kilowatt installation on Lunardi's Market in Burlingame, dedicated in late May, and a 10-kilowatt installation in late June on the common house of the Muir Commons co-housing community in Davis. The Muir Commons installation was performed as part of a hands-on photovoltaic solar panel design and installation workshop, for which participants were charged $650 apiece. See the PowerLight Corporation and Muir Commons press releases at: http://www.powerlight.com/pr/may-23-2002-lunardis.html and http://www.muircommons.org/pv/. A large solar power installation is also planned for Massachusetts. Northern Power Systems has been commissioned to design and install a 26.4-kilowatt solar electric system for the Woods Hole Research Center's new Ordway Campus in Falmouth. The Massachusetts Technology Collaborative is funding the project through a $226,308 grant. See the press releases from Northern Power (in PDF format only) and from the Woods Hole Research Center at: http://www.northernpower.com/media/pdf/woods-hole.pdf and http://www.whrc.org/news/setMRETgrant.htm. Utah and California Organizations Buy Green Power Recent green power purchases by two non-profit
Re: [biofuel] SVO versus BD
Thanks for the useful information and the links Reinhard Darren [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I strongly agree with Keith. SVO vs biodiesel? Neither should be dismissed each has it's place. Is very dependant on the individual situation:- What engine? Resources available for processing oils or converting vehicles. Vehicle use patterns. Vehicle operator/owners preference etc. etc. Clearly biodiesel has the greatest short term opportunities especially for transportation fuels. There has been many reports of successful SVO systems and trouble free use. There have also been problems reported but this is not exclusive to SVO use - biodiesel users especially home brewers encounter problems also. The main difference as I see it is that biodiesel fuel has been extensively researched world wide in many different engines and made from many different oil feedstock's. SVO especially WVO use remains a bit of a grey area as far as hard scientific research goes. I have seen many studies looking at vegetable oils suitability. Most conclude SVO is to thick and brush it aside as unsuitable and instead study biodiesel. There are a few good studies of SVO out there on the web: (not many that cover pre heating the oil) -The much touted ACREVO project report - very good detailed research. http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm -Available on the web but I don't have the link handy. should be able to find it with a search engine (good news for IDI's running in Africa) FACT-Vol. 12. Solid Fuel Conversion for the Transportation Sector ASME 1991 TECHNICAL OVERVIEW OF VEGETABLE OIL AS A TRANSPORTATION FUEL Charles L. Peterson and Dick L. Auld Department of Agricultural Engineering University of Idaho Moscow, Idaho -Biocar site has a thesis research project into the use of their kit to run SVO. In German http://www.biocar.de/ Part English translation http://www.vegburner.co.uk/biocar.html (thank you Stephan) -Ed Beggs has his Renewable Oil Fuels... thesis available on his site http://www.biofuels.ca -Another one that I haven't got the link handy Waste Vegetable Oil As A Diesel Replacement Fuel Phillip Calais* and AR (Tony) Clark** * Environmental Science, Murdoch University, Perth, Australia, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Western Australian Renewable Fuels Association Inc, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plenty more that go into blending vegetable oil with solvents, diesel, petrol etc. More information on SVO and WVO use is required. Does anyone know of any other scientific reports of SVO use or any studies in progress? There is the very useful FMSO Database of SVO vehicles in German. A great resource worth a look even if you can't read German http://www.fmso.de/ click on the Mehr als 300 Autos in der: Fahrzeugdatenbank! link Darren Hill www.vegburner.co.uk -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09 July 2002 18:33 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] SVO versus BD Reinhard Henning wrote: Albert Einstein often said: Use the simplest thing that works, as long as it's the best thing. The proviso is critical, and in many cases it's context-sensitive - I believe this is the case with the biodiesel vs SVO argument. In the end it boils down to a matter of particular circumstances and individual preferences. This in mind one should compare the two actual possibilities to use plant oil as fuel: 1) adaptation of the oil to the engine (bio-diesel, BD) 2) modification of the engine to run on pure plant oil (straight vegetable oil, svo) Plant oil is pure stored solar energy in its densiest form (9,2 kg /l). It contains only the elements carbon C, hydrogen H and oxygen O. In the simplest way it is produced only by grinding of seeds and pressing (ram presses, expellers) it. Purification by sedimentation and / or filtration: Can somebody imagine a simpler method of producing highly concentrated, environmentally friendly energy. In a short term planning, it is interesting to use biodiesel, because you can use the already existing car engines. But in a longer perspective, it is more interesting to adapt the engines to run on pure plant oil (SVO). And you have all the advantages of an decentralized fuekl production. And you dont need a chemical workshop to produce your own fuele at home. A ram press for about 200 $ and some plastc barrel is all you need. That is not convincing Reinhard. In the future more diesels will probably be adapted to SVO use, but that will leave millions of vehicles all over the world not so adapted, bringing us back to the same choice between making biodiesel and rigging a two-tank system with heating etc to use SVO... on some vehicles, maybe not on others, whereas biodiesel will work in any diesel. There is also a shortage of good, long-term studies on the
Re: [biofuel] Re: home heating oil
Hi, Plz give correct amount of lye(NaOH) and Methanol for preparing for biobiesel. any plz reply. Arjun India John Venema [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to use a wick type roomheater (Zibro kamin) designed for kerosine use with biodiesel. It did well for a couple of days, after that the wick didn't work no more. This was an expensive glassfiber wick :-( John - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: home heating oil Hallo Mark, I think biodiesel can be used easily in wick type stoves and lamps. SVO on the other hand cannot be used with wicks, because its viscosity is too high, it does not get transported by the capillary forces, like kerosene. I tried to explain this facts in a small drawing, which you can visit at: http://jatropha.org/lamps/princ-burning.htm Since SVO is not vaporizing like kerosene, and is not replaced by new material by capillary forces in the wick, the wick itself burns and has to be replaced quite often. The SVO molekules are cracked by the heat of the flame, and a carbon deposit is formed. After some hours the flame fades, because the supply of SVO via the carbon layer is diminishing. Regards Reinhard Henning girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Does anyone know more about this supposed wicking problem? One reply I got off list talked about using biodiesel in a home heater (didn't hve too much details about what design the thing was, though) but said they ahd to start it on dinodiesel and that SVO didn't work at all. I've heard something or another about wicks being a problem but I thought it had more to do with the wicks burning up more often, or carbonizing more, or something like that. Is this true? I have used plenty of biodiesel in a Whisperlite XGK cookstove (that's a tiny multifuel backpacker stove that uses diesel or kerosene) and it is hardish to start the thing (I've never run diesel or kerosene in it for comparison, though, just volatile 'white gas'). It's a wick-type thing, I think. Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This also interests me greatly and I'd love to hear about others' solutions in this department. In winter I heat and (partially) illuminate my home with Aladdin stoves and lanterns (my understanding is that biodiesel does not work with these wick-based devices); I also get hot water year-round from a sophisticated kerosene instantaneous (i.e., no reservoir tank) hot water heater that I strongly suspect would work fine with biodiesel. A dual fuel system (biodiesel + SVO) would probably work too but since hot water is used sporadically, for only a few minutes at a time, it wouldn't be practical. However, there are boilers (here in Japan at least) that are specifically designed to be capable of burning WVO. The Petromax lantern and similar designs (Chinese imitations, etc.) will work fine with biodiesel (and most other flammable liquids, including ethanol); however they produce such an intensely bright light that you probably wouldn't want to use one inside your home. (Especially in hot weather!) You can also get cookstoves that are based on the Petromax design and I'm sure they work well. You could probably build a simple but effective hot water heater around these. There is also the old standby Perfection type cookstove but since they use wicks I assume (based on what I have read) that biodiesel won't work with them. -- Chris Witmer Tokyo mark fire wrote: Could someone post some info about experiences using biodiesel or SVO for home heating oil? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the
[biofuel] Re: making biodiesel/lye/methanol amounts
Hi, The amounts of methanol commonly used in a homebrew biodiesel process is 20% methanol by volume of oil. It is a somewhat arbitrary figure, as the stoichiometric ratio is much lower (13%?) but the extra methanol is absolutely neccessary under crude home conditions to give a more complete reaction. The quantity of lye is, on the other hand, is not arbitrary. It is crucial to use the right amount of lye to achieve good results. It varies depending on the oil used. The first variable is whether the oil is new (virgin) or if it is waste oil that has been heated in a restaurant fryer (waste vegetable oil, or WVO). For new oil, the amounts of lye used in the reaction is 3.1-3.5 grams per liter of vegetable oil. Most homebrewers would use 3.5 and get acceptable results. But for used oil, the amounts of lye can vary wildly depending on how long the oil has been heated and to what temperature, as well as other factors. You will need to perform a titration to determine the exact amount. It should be the exact amount, very important here. It is also possible to get a crude approximation of the right amounts by doing trial and error test batches, but it is better to learn how to perform a titration properly. See information at www.journeytoforever.org for exact instructions on how to perform a titration and make biodiesel under home conditions (applies to lab conditions too of course!) Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], sdfgs fdgsd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Plz give correct amount of lye(NaOH) and Methanol for preparing for biobiesel. any plz reply. Arjun India John Venema [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to use a wick type roomheater (Zibro kamin) designed for kerosine use with biodiesel. It did well for a couple of days, after that the wick didn't work no more. This was an expensive glassfiber wick :-( John - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: home heating oil Hallo Mark, I think biodiesel can be used easily in wick type stoves and lamps. SVO on the other hand cannot be used with wicks, because its viscosity is too high, it does not get transported by the capillary forces, like kerosene. I tried to explain this facts in a small drawing, which you can visit at: http://jatropha.org/lamps/princ-burning.htm Since SVO is not vaporizing like kerosene, and is not replaced by new material by capillary forces in the wick, the wick itself burns and has to be replaced quite often. The SVO molekules are cracked by the heat of the flame, and a carbon deposit is formed. After some hours the flame fades, because the supply of SVO via the carbon layer is diminishing. Regards Reinhard Henning girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Does anyone know more about this supposed wicking problem? One reply I got off list talked about using biodiesel in a home heater (didn't hve too much details about what design the thing was, though) but said they ahd to start it on dinodiesel and that SVO didn't work at all. I've heard something or another about wicks being a problem but I thought it had more to do with the wicks burning up more often, or carbonizing more, or something like that. Is this true? I have used plenty of biodiesel in a Whisperlite XGK cookstove (that's a tiny multifuel backpacker stove that uses diesel or kerosene) and it is hardish to start the thing (I've never run diesel or kerosene in it for comparison, though, just volatile 'white gas'). It's a wick-type thing, I think. Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This also interests me greatly and I'd love to hear about others' solutions in this department. In winter I heat and (partially) illuminate my home with Aladdin stoves and lanterns (my understanding is that biodiesel does not work with these wick-based devices); I also get hot water year-round from a sophisticated kerosene instantaneous (i.e., no reservoir tank) hot water heater that I strongly suspect would work fine with biodiesel. A dual fuel system (biodiesel + SVO) would probably work too but since hot water is used sporadically, for only a few minutes at a time, it wouldn't be practical. However, there are boilers (here in Japan at least) that are specifically designed to be capable of burning WVO. The Petromax lantern and similar designs (Chinese imitations, etc.) will work fine with biodiesel (and most other flammable liquids, including ethanol); however they produce such an intensely bright light that you probably wouldn't want to use one inside
Re: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration,
Thanks. I will contact her. - Original Message - From: Andreas Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:11 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration, Dear Christian, well first of all thank you very much for all the information, really good. To the Crest contact: The person in charge for further questions is :Allison White: [EMAIL PROTECTED] she is able to answer your questions about formal matters. Also a look onto the website might help: http://www.lboro.ac.uk/crest/MSC/index.htm As I know is there no possibility to get it funded, otherwise I would have tried it, but try it your own, it is perhaps worth. So far. Much lick and the best. Regards, Andreas. -Original Message- From: William Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 July 2002 01:13 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration, Her is a link for MSDS on anhydrous S.M.. http://www.alkalimetals.com/MSDS/SODIUM%20METHOXIDE%20MSDS.htm Does anyone know anything about this substance? Bill C. - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration, Hi Andreas. I doubt I«ll be able t answer all your questions but I«ll see if I can help a bit. My name is Andreas Jansen, student for Environmental Management in The Netherlands, however since a year taking part at the MSc for Renewable Energy Systems Technology at Crest in Loughborough, UK. My dissertation started 4 weeks ago and is about the topic biodiesel. Therefore I have to optimise a small-scale prototype installation running on used cooking oil for a company, which is just three years in business, not having much experience yet, which makes the work and support for me sometimes rather difficult. For this I read lot of abstracts, however my chemical background is not so very strong, still for some understanding sufficient. However there are some topics where I struggle with and cannot find an answer to: 1. When considering Sodium Hydroxide as catalyst for alkaline based transesterification I wonder about the following things: A reaction mechanism tells me, that the methanol and sodium hydroxide form S.M. and water. S.M. catalyses the transesterification and at the end the H+-ion from the previous formed water is deprotonated by the diglyceride-ion (or later mono-glyceride- or even later glycerol- ion) to form a fully alcohol group and finally glycerol. My concern is whether this combination of H+-ion and (di)glyceride-ion is necessary to occur or whether in the glycerol-layer after separation also (di)glyceride-ions may be found if not all (di)glyceride-ions have had combined with the H+-ions from the water? A catalyst should be found back at the end (if not saponified), that is what a catalyst defines, or? Therefore only glycerol but no (di)glyceride-ions should be found? Furthermore, if now assumed that anhydrous S.M. powder as catalyst is used, would that (under the assumption that H+-ions must react with a (di)glyceride-ions to form the glycerol) mean, that water must be deprotonated and if water is initially present in the oil this water would be removed, thus lowering the saponification reaction between f.f.a., water and Na+-ions?? That would be quite a benefit to consider buying S.M. powder instead of producing S.M. self by mixing Me-OH and NaOH! I was unaware of the fact you could buy dehydrated S.M. This would be a great improvement, as it would reduce the ammount of water in the transesterification. The term catalyst must be carefully used here. From what I recover, the catalyst will be somewhat consumed hence disrupting its own definition. Even more complex solid catalysts used in complex industries (as pharmaceutical), often patented salts like Titanium tetraalcoxides and so, will probably serve for 20 or so reactions. The end product may always have rmains of mono- di- glycerides, as 100% efficiency is not possible. 2. When doing previous the reaction a titration to determine the degree of f.f.a. I take 1 ml oil and dissolve it in 10 ml iso- propanol. pH meter and litmus-pH-paper give different results during titration and the indicator (phenolphthalein) is not behaving like expected. It first tends only very, very light purple but remains like this, only if ~0,5 ml more NaOH solution is added (than at a pH of 10) it is turning totally purple. I thought a indicator colours or does not but the very light purple colour which stays and does not disappears after stirring more confuses me a lot? Concerning the
[biofuel] need todays price for anhydrous
can anyone tell me todays price for anhydrous ethanol Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: need todays price for anhydrous
I found anhydrous ethanol for about $5 or $6 /gallon in the SF Bay Area (at ERC in San Leandro) --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: can anyone tell me todays price for anhydrous ethanol Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SVO versus BD
Hi Darren These are the SVO reports I have - some duplication with yours, but never mind. I'm sure Ed Beggs and Reinhard Henning will have more. There are some otherwise useful European studies that I've omitted because I take exception to their biodiesel-bashing. Report of the European Advanced Combustion Research for Energy from Vegetable Oils (ACREVO) study of the use of straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel. Investigates the burning characteristics of vegetable oil droplets from experiments conducted under high pressure and high temperature conditions. Very interesting study, worth a thorough read (4,400 words). http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm Renewable Oil Fuels and Diesel Engines As Components of Sustainable System Design by Ed Beggs of Neoteric Biofuels -- Are renewable oils, as fuels in unmodified compression ignition engines, a technically and economically feasible component of sustainable system design, in both developing and developed countries? -- 196-page Master's degree thesis, 1Mb Acrobat file: http://members.shaw.ca/biofuels/ebeggsthesis.pdf Technical Overview of Vegetable Oil as a Transportation Fuel, 1991, Charles L. Peterson and Dick L. Auld, Department of Agricultural Engineering, University of Idaho -- see section concerning Fuls, South Africa, indirect injection engines: Fuls. J., Hawkins, C.S. and Hugo, F.J.C., 1984, Tractor Engine Performance on Sunflower Oil Fuel, Journal of Agricultural Engineering Research 30:29-35. (Acrobat file, 948kb) Abstract and download: http://www.biodiesel.org/cgi-local/search.cgi?action=view_reportid=GEN-292 Waste Vegetable Oil as a Diesel Replacement Fuel -- Informative 6,500 article by Phillip Calais, Environmental Science, Murdoch University, Perth, Australia, [EMAIL PROTECTED], and AR (Tony) Clark, Western Australian Renewable Fuels Association Inc, [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.shortcircuit.com.au/warfa/paper/paper.htm Waste Vegetable Oil Conversion of Mazda 1990 2.0L diesel station wagon, by Tony Clark: http://www.shortcircuit.com.au/warfa/WVOMazdaDiesel.htm Pictures of the Mazda conversion: http://www.shortcircuit.com.au/warfa/warfaPictures.htm Biodiesel: The Use of Vegetable Oils and Their Derivatives as Alternative Diesel Fuels, G. Knothe, R.O. Dunn, and M.O. Bagby, in Fuels and Chemicals from Biomass. Washington, D.C.: American Chemical Society. http://www.oup-usa.org/j778/isbn/0841235082.html Download full-text article (MS Word, 337Kb): http://www.biodiesel.org/reports/GEN-162.doc Operation of a Diesel Engine Using Unrefined Rapeseed Oil as Fuel, Chiyuki Togashi, Department of Agricultural Engineering, Miyagi Agricultural College, and Jun-ichi Kamide, Faculty of Agriculture, Yamagata University, Japan. Report of tests with unrefined rapeseed oil in a small diesel engine on short-term performance, long-term operation and no-load continuous operation using deacidified oil, degummed oil and crude oil. http://ss.jircas.affrc.go.jp/engpage/jarq/33-2/Togashi/togashi.html Results of engine and vehicle testing of semi-refined rapeseed oil, Kevin P. McDonnell, Shane M. Ward Paul B. McNulty, University College Dublin, Dept of Agricultural Food Engineering, Dublin, Ireland. http://www.regional.org.au/au/gcirc/6/214.htm General information: Vegetable oil instead of diesel -- an alternative fuel? http://people.freenet.de/sthl/poel/vegoil.htm Using vegetable oil as a substitute for diesel fuel -- extensive FAQ http://people.freenet.de/sthl/poel/VegFAQ.htm I strongly agree with Keith. SVO vs biodiesel? Neither should be dismissed each has it's place. Is very dependant on the individual situation:- What engine? Resources available for processing oils or converting vehicles. Vehicle use patterns. Vehicle operator/owners preference etc. etc. Clearly biodiesel has the greatest short term opportunities especially for transportation fuels. There has been many reports of successful SVO systems and trouble free use. There have also been problems reported but this is not exclusive to SVO use - biodiesel users especially home brewers encounter problems also. The main difference as I see it is that biodiesel fuel has been extensively researched world wide in many different engines and made from many different oil feedstock's. SVO especially WVO use remains a bit of a grey area as far as hard scientific research goes. I have seen many studies looking at vegetable oils suitability. Most conclude SVO is to thick and brush it aside as unsuitable and instead study biodiesel. Too true. But I think that may be starting to change now. The ACREVO study shows the way, I hope others will follow. There are a few good studies of SVO out there on the web: (not many that cover pre heating the oil) -The much touted ACREVO project report - very good detailed research. http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm -Available on the web but I don't have the link handy. should be
[biofuel] Re: home heating oil
Hello Mark Does anyone know more about this supposed wicking problem? People say different things, but most seem to agree that biodiesel won't travel up a wick effectively. I don't know why, you'd think it would - it seems to penetrate just about anything, it's the slipperiest stuff I've ever seen. But I wrecked a couple of expensive kerosene heaters with biodiesel, worked for a day or two, and no more. (Didn't pay for them, fortunately, both liberated from Japan's extraordinarily elegant junk piles - only the best junk will do here!) I've also tried it in several wick lamps and lanterns, you have to soak the wick first, works for a short while, but you end up burning more wick than biodiesel. There's been talk here in the past of converting heaters to operate on biodiesel, but I don't know how to do that. One reply I got off list talked about using biodiesel in a home heater (didn't hve too much details about what design the thing was, though) but said they ahd to start it on dinodiesel and that SVO didn't work at all. I've heard something or another about wicks being a problem but I thought it had more to do with the wicks burning up more often, or carbonizing more, or something like that. Is this true? I have used plenty of biodiesel in a Whisperlite XGK cookstove (that's a tiny multifuel backpacker stove that uses diesel or kerosene) and it is hardish to start the thing (I've never run diesel or kerosene in it for comparison, though, just volatile 'white gas'). It's a wick-type thing, I think. But Whisperlites use pressure, don't they? Bit like a Primus. I don't think it has a wick, could be wrong. Some ideas: The Babington burner Steve referred to will work well by all accounts, but it needs a pump and a compressor. The Mother Earth Waste Oil Heater will apparently work with SVO - it should do, I see no reason why not, I hear that people have used it with SVO but get no further details. I think I'd have got the details okay if it didn't work! I'm trying to find out more about this now and should have some further info soon. That's here: Mother Earth: Waste Oil Heater http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html Reinhard's jatropha site has some interesting stoves and heaters, check out the url he gave: http://jatropha.org/cooker/index.html It refs these people, who do work for the ICRC: http://home.worldcom.ch/redi Several of those heaters would probably work well. There's more at the ICRC site: http://www.icrc.org/icrceng.nsf/4dc394db5b54f3fa4125673900241f2f/231fd 9d6c658b8f4412568e20032a0f1?OpenDocument Appropriate and more environment-friendly applications Some of these heaters will double as cookers, probably useful. Hope that helps. Keith Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This also interests me greatly and I'd love to hear about others' solutions in this department. In winter I heat and (partially) illuminate my home with Aladdin stoves and lanterns (my understanding is that biodiesel does not work with these wick-based devices); I also get hot water year-round from a sophisticated kerosene instantaneous (i.e., no reservoir tank) hot water heater that I strongly suspect would work fine with biodiesel. A dual fuel system (biodiesel + SVO) would probably work too but since hot water is used sporadically, for only a few minutes at a time, it wouldn't be practical. However, there are boilers (here in Japan at least) that are specifically designed to be capable of burning WVO. The Petromax lantern and similar designs (Chinese imitations, etc.) will work fine with biodiesel (and most other flammable liquids, including ethanol); however they produce such an intensely bright light that you probably wouldn't want to use one inside your home. (Especially in hot weather!) You can also get cookstoves that are based on the Petromax design and I'm sure they work well. You could probably build a simple but effective hot water heater around these. There is also the old standby Perfection type cookstove but since they use wicks I assume (based on what I have read) that biodiesel won't work with them. -- Chris Witmer Tokyo mark fire wrote: Could someone post some info about experiences using biodiesel or SVO for home heating oil? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: making biodiesel/lye/methanol amounts
Hi, Thanks for mail. i am very happy for ur solution. But i face the problem regarding to titration My oil ph is not go beyond 6.5. After adding 0.01 normal of NaOH solution of 2 ml then after that ph is deceased. WHY? So that i tried for near about 30 tests with varing all methanol lye and oil percentage till now i not gate the result. Why? Is there need of Distillation?plz give solution . Arjun girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The amounts of methanol commonly used in a homebrew biodiesel process is 20% methanol by volume of oil. It is a somewhat arbitrary figure, as the stoichiometric ratio is much lower (13%?) but the extra methanol is absolutely neccessary under crude home conditions to give a more complete reaction. The quantity of lye is, on the other hand, is not arbitrary. It is crucial to use the right amount of lye to achieve good results. It varies depending on the oil used. The first variable is whether the oil is new (virgin) or if it is waste oil that has been heated in a restaurant fryer (waste vegetable oil, or WVO). For new oil, the amounts of lye used in the reaction is 3.1-3.5 grams per liter of vegetable oil. Most homebrewers would use 3.5 and get acceptable results. But for used oil, the amounts of lye can vary wildly depending on how long the oil has been heated and to what temperature, as well as other factors. You will need to perform a titration to determine the exact amount. It should be the exact amount, very important here. It is also possible to get a crude approximation of the right amounts by doing trial and error test batches, but it is better to learn how to perform a titration properly. See information at www.journeytoforever.org for exact instructions on how to perform a titration and make biodiesel under home conditions (applies to lab conditions too of course!) Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], sdfgs fdgsd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Plz give correct amount of lye(NaOH) and Methanol for preparing for biobiesel. any plz reply. Arjun India John Venema [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to use a wick type roomheater (Zibro kamin) designed for kerosine use with biodiesel. It did well for a couple of days, after that the wick didn't work no more. This was an expensive glassfiber wick :-( John - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: home heating oil Hallo Mark, I think biodiesel can be used easily in wick type stoves and lamps. SVO on the other hand cannot be used with wicks, because its viscosity is too high, it does not get transported by the capillary forces, like kerosene. I tried to explain this facts in a small drawing, which you can visit at: http://jatropha.org/lamps/princ-burning.htm Since SVO is not vaporizing like kerosene, and is not replaced by new material by capillary forces in the wick, the wick itself burns and has to be replaced quite often. The SVO molekules are cracked by the heat of the flame, and a carbon deposit is formed. After some hours the flame fades, because the supply of SVO via the carbon layer is diminishing. Regards Reinhard Henning girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Does anyone know more about this supposed wicking problem? One reply I got off list talked about using biodiesel in a home heater (didn't hve too much details about what design the thing was, though) but said they ahd to start it on dinodiesel and that SVO didn't work at all. I've heard something or another about wicks being a problem but I thought it had more to do with the wicks burning up more often, or carbonizing more, or something like that. Is this true? I have used plenty of biodiesel in a Whisperlite XGK cookstove (that's a tiny multifuel backpacker stove that uses diesel or kerosene) and it is hardish to start the thing (I've never run diesel or kerosene in it for comparison, though, just volatile 'white gas'). It's a wick-type thing, I think. Mark --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This also interests me greatly and I'd love to hear about others' solutions in this department. In winter I heat and (partially) illuminate my home with Aladdin stoves and lanterns (my understanding is that biodiesel does not work with these wick-based devices); I also get hot water year-round from a sophisticated kerosene instantaneous (i.e., no reservoir tank) hot water heater that I strongly suspect would work fine with biodiesel. A dual fuel
