Re: [biofuel] hydrogen
At 10:12 PM 3/28/2004 +, you wrote: Does anybody know what are the hazards of storing and using hydrogen? Same for any gas except it has the fastest rate of explosion of any gas when combined with oxygen. Just like any gas it must be storage without the presence of any other gas except maybe argon or nitrogen. I've been working with hydrogen for 9 years now and have found it to be the energy of the future without a doubt. Now, the problem becomes creating it via efficient processes. Solar thermal production is a viable system for fueling your vehicle with it, and while you are at work the system makes more for the next day (assuming no clouds). Hydrogen can also be used in extremely lean mixtures, up to 75:1 would not be out of the question. It can also be lit with a platinum catalyst, and produces an almost invisible flame with temperatures 4000F and higher typical. Refrigeration compressors can be used to fill high pressure tanks at 700PSI and then used for cooking, vehicles, etc. A vacuum is first placed on the tank to make sure the oxygen is eliminated before filling. With oxygen in the tank you would have an extremely potent bomb with explosion characteristics similar to nitroglycerine I would think. I am working on a high-voltage production method first mentioned by Nikola Tesla. I will know if the system is more efficient than standard electrolysis this year. Tad Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [Fwd: Cold fusion and geophysics: the current situation]
Re:Cold fusion - from Nuenergy list. Alex Original Message Subject:Cold fusion and geophysics: the current situation Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:39:47 -0500 From: Nu Energy Research Laboratories [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Nu Energy Research Laboratories [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Nu Energy Research Laboratories To: eGroup list (nuenergy) [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: energy2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED], Free Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED], Free Energy Claims [EMAIL PROTECTED], JLN Labs [EMAIL PROTECTED], Radiant Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nordemann DJR; Mineracao Metalurgia 53 (1989) 51 (in Portuguese). Cold fusion and geophysics: the current situation A wrap-up of the cold fusion story at the time of writing, around the middle of 1989, commenting on the FPH paper and that of Cribier+ only. The usual interest and doubt is expressed, as well as an explanation of the suspect fusion reactions. Nordemann goes further, however, and takes up a suggestion of Cribier et al, that the neutrons may arise from collisions between alpha particles and deuterium; the alphas could come from natural heavy isotopes (U, Th, Rn) present in the palladium as impurities. Nordemann looks at Rn, one of whose decay products is (214)Po, which decays to give off an alpha particle with an energy of 7.68 MeV, sufficient to cause the reaction D + (4)He -- H + n + (4)He; i.e. the alpha or (4)He is not itself changed. Nordemann suggests that Pd may accumulate radon gas in sufficient quantity to let this happen. Radon is ubiquitous, being a product of uranium decay, and U is everywhere. The process could explain the erratic results obtained by various researchers, and Nordemann ironically suggests that some workers, who state that heat pretreatment of the palladium is to be avoided, do so in order not to drive out the radon... He concludes, however, with the thought that the subject is still important, and if a fusion reaction is indeed behind the positive results, this could have implications not only for our energy future but also for geophysical phenomena such as vulcanism, seismic activity and continental origin. SE Jones would agree. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Immersion heater - please help
Is the one used in the 5 gal procesor at Journey to Forever a straight water heater type ? How hot can it get (in C degrees)? Is it a screw in type ? Is it 110V ? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Pumps
If I were to change my thinking about a variable speed drill type mixer and go to a pump, would an ordinary washing machine water pump do the job ? Monday I hear about a continuous supply of lye (sodium hydroxide)and I need to know about this and the other posts before going ahead with the building of a 10 gal (45 liter)processor. I, of course, will be doing a test batch first of all, but by next week I need to know what I am going to do as that is when the processor will be made. Thanks. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
Mr. Addison, You seem to have a lot of pent up hostility! Again I have worked in and around industrial plants for 25 years, and I have had the misfortune of losing good men to an industrial accident, as well as having a disgruntled employee sabatoge a volatile process. I have been investigated and cleared by OSHA, EPA, USDA, FDA, and others you may have not heard of. There was no lies told, no conspiracy, it was simply an accident. Of course the reporters telling the stories placed enough SPIN on their articles you would have thought I was responsible for WWII. Corporations such as UC, Shell, Monsanto have the every day JOE working for them, and at some point they or we screw up. The difference between you and them is we take action to fix, repair or clean up the problem and not debate who is at fault. That comes later. Mr. Addison, I won't debate you over mistakes made by companies, or the people who run them. Many of the items we use today were spawned by mistakes made in a research lab. I do ask for some latitude while you run down companies that helped create the Great Industrialized Nation that we are, by not citing articles by repoters with their own agendas. Alternative forms of energy, the how to's, the where to get, the what if's ; That is what brought me to this site. If I wanted SPIN I would read the National Enquirer. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: How true?
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, entrephil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello to all. I would like to ask if this is true. Coco-diesel of Philippines is more superior than soya-diesel of US and rapeseed-diesel of Europe. Thanks and regards. Romy-ENTREPhil Hi, This is or is not true depending on your definition of superiority :). The Coco-diesel is made from the more saturated oil, this means it has smaller jodine values and hence has less tendency to oxidate, polimerize, less aging problems etc.. soyarapeseed-diesel are from the more unsaturated oils, hence they are less durable , BUT they have a far lower melting point - hence lesser problems with fuell gelling in cold climates. Of course, in those countries where coco-diesel is produced the cold weather is not a problem and vice versa :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
If I wanted SPIN I would read the National Enquirer. The Guardian might as well be the National Inquirer, and everyone over there seems to bask in the conspiracy theories and the extreme left, taking both as the ultimate truth. Actually all the articles I've read on the The Guardian make The National Enquirer look very sane and professional. I would be intrigued if the world would run as that newspaper would like it run, might be an interesting experiment. In the meantime I will stay right here in the middle of the spectrum. Not Rush Limbaugh and not Tom Daschle = ) Tad Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: hydrogen
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Tad Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:12 PM 3/28/2004 +, you wrote: Same for any gas except it has the fastest rate of explosion of any gas when combined with oxygen. Hmmm, there are also the metal enbritlement problems and containment problems - hydrogen can escape diresctly through metal walls of the pipe, not to mention the usual places - like joints of pipes... or nitrogen. I've been working with hydrogen for 9 years now and have found it to be the energy of the future without a doubt. Now, the problem becomes creating it via efficient processes. Sorry, but IMHO, the biggest problem is storage and delivery of hydrogen. Electricity has at least managed to solve the delivery, though not storage :) fill high pressure tanks at 700PSI and then used for cooking, vehicles, etc. 700PSI is high presure in normal engineering, but not enough for the hydrogen delivery. Those guys with the fuel cells in cars are contemplating (and have prototypes) for fuel tanks with 1PSI presure (yes, 10 thousand PSI, 700 atmospheres). These are not cryogenic containers, in cars it is difficult to ensure good thermal isolation - and this is critical for cryogenics, because if thermal isolation fails, then you are driving a bomb :) A vacuum is first placed on the tank to make sure the oxygen is eliminated before filling. With oxygen in the tank you would have an extremely potent bomb with explosion characteristics similar to nitroglycerine I would think. I am working on a high-voltage production method first mentioned by Nikola Tesla. I will know if the system is more efficient than standard electrolysis this year. Tad This is interesting, let us know your proceedings Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Perkins Engines on Biodiesel
Hello Lillie Here is a response I got from Perkins Engines; I don't understand everything they said but am left with the feeling they aren't happy with biodiesel? This product bulletin has been produced in order to provide you with the latest information regarding the issuing of a Common Statement from Bosch, Stanadyne and Lucas FIE manufacturers. And Denso, but not Lucas (unless they've recently issued a further statement). The FIEM statement is summarised here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html FIEM report I do have the full report to hand. What it boils down to is a bunch of good reasons to make good fuel to standard spec and wash it properly, which any of us here can do, and I believe most of us do do. They're also bothered about degradation when fuel isn't stored properly, not a concern for us. It doesn't boil down to only using max 5%. These are their concerns: -Free methanol -Dissolved and free water -Free glycerin -Mono and di glycerides -Free fatty acids -Total solid impurity levels -Alkaline metal compounds in solution. -Oxidation and thermal stability Have a look and see what they say causes filter blocking. What usually causes filter blocking is deposits laid down by petro-diesel, which get loosened up by biodiesel and plug the filter, and that's the FIEM concern: polymerisation products drop out within mixes with mineral fuels. This is only a danger at first, and might not even happen. That biodiesel cleans up all this gunk can hardly be translated into Don't use more than 5% biodiesel. All it needs is a filter-change at first. Perkins insist it must be standard-spec fuel, quite right too, so what's the problem? They talk of RME, which is specifically rapeseed methyl esters, though the FIEM statement is not specific to RME but to FAME - fatty acid methyl esters, ie any biodiesel. Maybe they're not very well informed about biodiesel. Hm... think I'll upload the whole document... It's here (Acrobat file, 104kb): http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/FIEM.pdf Anyway, you asked them this: Information: Our application is a Landini 5860 tractor and we are wondering if the engine handles biodiesel well. The answer is that all diesel motors handle biodiesel well, if the biodiesel is made well. Unless it's new and you're worried about warranties, go ahead, it'll love it, so will you. Champagne for the engine. If it is new, then there won't be any previous petro-diesel polymerisation deposits anyway. Best Keith Bio diesel - R.M.E. fuel can be used in Perkins direct injection diesel engines. However, the following conditions apply: á The fuel must comply with DIN V 51606 (or other approved national standards as they evolve). á It can only be used in mixtures of up to 5% RME in mineral oil diesel fuel. No mixture above 5% is acceptable, as this can result in filter blocking. á Fuel storage must be to recommended standards, to avoid the absorption of water, and degradation. In any event, storage should not exceed 12 months. Fuel degradation, if allowed to occur, can result in the corrosion of metallic components, and the premature failure of seals. á RME is a powerful solvent. Damage may occur if it comes into contact with paint work. DISCLAIMER (Taken from the Common Position Statement) No legal liability can be accepted for failure attributable to operating products with fuels for which the products were not designed, and no warranties or representations are made as to the possible effects of running these products with such fuels. Non -compliance of the fuel to agreed standards, whether being evident by appearance of the known degradation products of these fuels, or their effects within the fuel injection equipment, will render the FIE manufacturer's guarantee null and void. If you require further information, please contact your Perkins Representative. Or follow this link : http://www.perkins.com/perkins/cda/articleDisplay/1,4094,7_2007_21235 _32_7_10008001,00.html? Regards, Technical Support Centre Ref (SL) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: 25/03/2004 00:11 Subject: Technical Support Request Form Perkins: Confidential Green Retain Until: 24/04/2004 Retention Category: G90 - Information and Reports First Name : Lillie Last Name : Bennett Address: Glen Burnie, USA Company Name : Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Serial Number : 903.7 Application: Agricultural Type : End User Distributor Name : Perkins Power North East Distributor Contact: Subject: biodiesel Information: Our application is a Landini 5860 tractor and
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
Mr Little Mr. Addison, You seem to have a lot of pent up hostility! Do I now. You haven't though, eh? Well, there wasn't any hostility, nor is there now, but I'll admit to a little impatience - never mind, it'll pass. All this means: You seem to have a lot of pent up hostility! is that you're cross that I didn't agree with you and questioned what you'd said. To which I'll now add that the reason you're cross is that you quite obviously can't answer the questions, so you respond with ... more hostility. Again I have worked in and around industrial plants for 25 years, and I have had the misfortune of losing good men to an industrial accident, as well as having a disgruntled employee sabatoge a volatile process. I have been investigated and cleared by OSHA, EPA, USDA, FDA, and others you may have not heard of. There was no lies told, no conspiracy, it was simply an accident. So what? Industrial accidents happen all the time, most are just accidents, many are not accidents at all. And, sorry about this, I don't care how long you've worked in and around industrial plants, I know more about that than you do: your experience is limited to a couple of plants, I've investigated and reported on single plants, on whole industries and industrial sectors, in whole cities and in whole countries, in special economic zones and more. These reports have invariably produced a lot of squealing, but not a single substantive objection. Not one. They have also produced a lot of appreciative feedback not only from workers' groups but also from employers wanting to do better by their workforces. Of course the reporters telling the stories placed enough SPIN on their articles you would have thought I was responsible for WWII. I won't take your word for that, I'd want to see all the evidence as well as the reports. I don't hold any brief for the integrity of the press, I've questioned it much too often, including right here, often, but I'm at least as sceptical of people who blame the press / shoot the messenger. Corporations such as UC, Shell, Monsanto have the every day JOE working for them, and at some point they or we screw up. The difference between you and them is we take action to fix, repair or clean up the problem and not debate who is at fault. That comes later. Uh-huh. You know something about me and my work do you? I think not. You reckon this is a good example of industry leaping to clean up the problem? http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32334/ Re: [biofuel] Bhopal You reckon that's an exception? Only by it's scale and concentration. It's just business as usual. All spin, eh? Mr. Addison, I won't debate you over mistakes made by companies, or the people who run them. LOL! As if you could! Many of the items we use today were spawned by mistakes made in a research lab. Please name just one useful item spawned by Bhopal or by Monsanto's lying trail of GMO havoc. I do ask for some latitude while you run down companies that helped create the Great Industrialized Nation that we are, by not citing articles by repoters with their own agendas. I don't ask, I demand from you a detailed response to what I've posted on Bhopal and UC/Dow, as well as what I posted on the Wise Use movement and Driessen et al in this thread, which is what sparked your objections, establishing clearly that it follows an agenda to run down worthy companies and is just spin. You will also explain exactly why the article I cited by George Monbiot is spin by a reporter with his own agenda. Stating that about a reporter is questioning his integrity and that of his work. You're saying Monbiot spins, you're saying I spin. Now prove it. Or withdraw it. Alternative forms of energy, the how to's, the where to get, the what if's ; That is what brought me to this site. And that means you get to tell everybody what may and may not be discussed here, according to your own distorted agenda? The playing field for alternative energy is of course perfectly level, eh? You think so? You don't think so? Perhaps you'd care to explain how you're going to discuss the potential for and application of alternative forms of energy while always steering round any hint that the corporations that helped create the Great Industrialized Nation that you are and their government might just be a teeny little bit in the way? If I wanted SPIN I would read the National Enquirer. Oh, you definitely do want spin, just as long as it's *your* spin. You can't tell the difference. You can deal with this too, since you haven't: Hello C. Little When I place myself on this E-Mail list, I was not aware political and business bashing was part of the scheme. Good, then you can stay unaware of it, as it's not the case and there is no scheme here. I have noticed that reports and reporters with pointed agendas never quite tell the whole story..frankly because they don't want the whole story. Some folks just want to place blame
Re: [biofuel] Pumps
lovemydiesel2003 wrote: If I were to change my thinking about a variable speed drill type mixer and go to a pump, would an ordinary washing machine water pump do the job ? Yes. Lucky you - that's another thing apart from immersion heaters that doesn't happen in Japan: washing machines here don't have pumps (nor heaters). I know someone who's been using a washing machine pump for a few years now, in a 35-litre processor, no problems unless you're into really long processing times: it gets tired after a few hours. So I guess get the strongest one you can, try to check that the duty cycle or whatever will be adequate. Best Keith Monday I hear about a continuous supply of lye (sodium hydroxide)and I need to know about this and the other posts before going ahead with the building of a 10 gal (45 liter)processor. I, of course, will be doing a test batch first of all, but by next week I need to know what I am going to do as that is when the processor will be made. Thanks. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Monsanto ect...
Well, lovemydiesel2003, thanks for the encouragement! You can give us your website url if you like, I think quite a lot of folks here would be interested. Best Keith Well, Keith, I have to say that I am now happier than ever to have found biofuels and this forum and Journey to Forever. The whole ^$^#* lot of the chem community is responsible for so much damage to the food chain that time and space are lacking to even tip the iceberg, but your response in Corporate Ethics is very refreshing. This is exactly the sort of thing my own website deals in; alternative health, nutrition, medical(holistic/homeopathic) information amongst other things, and no I am not plugging or attempting to spam this forum either so no link. I do however appreciate that there is a high standard of ethics here, keep it up. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Immersion heater - please help
lovemydiesel2003 wrote: Is the one used in the 5 gal procesor at Journey to Forever a straight water heater type ? It's an immersion heater, for water, yes. How hot can it get (in C degrees)? Much too hot. As it says, it's 1.5kw, and 500w would be enough. Is it a screw in type ? Yes, you can see that in the pics. Is it 110V ? Yes. But our immersion heater shouldn't be of too much interest to you. It was the only part of that processor we bought. We'd already bought it some time before, for a different purpose. The reason we bought it is that though we're pretty expert at salvaging junk,we couldn't find (and still haven't found) junked water heaters here, or not electric ones anyway, only gas or kerosene-powered. This immersion heater came from a specialty shop in Akihabara, Tokyo's electric town, which makes them, and it wasn't very cheap. You shouldn't have too much difficulty finding junked electric water heaters with the immersion heaters intact and working. Mark's fumeless processor uses them: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html The $150 Fumeless Processor - Journey to Forever Don't forget this: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32813/ Heating elements - was Re: [biofuel] bulk oil storage Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Standard method for making biodiesel
Is there any method set as a standard for producing biodiesel? If so where can i get info about that method? If there is no standard method, which is the efficient method to get the biodiesel from straight vegetable oil. Is it Aleks kac's Fool Proof Method? Please help! Prathap _ Easiest Money Transfer to India. Send Money To 6000 Indian Towns. http://go.msnserver.com/IN/42198.asp Easiest Way To Send Money Home! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
If I wanted SPIN I would read the National Enquirer. The Guardian might as well be the National Inquirer, and everyone over there seems to bask in the conspiracy theories and the extreme left, taking both as the ultimate truth. Actually all the articles I've read on the The Guardian make The National Enquirer look very sane and professional. I would be intrigued if the world would run as that newspaper would like it run, might be an interesting experiment. In the meantime I will stay right here in the middle of the spectrum. Not Rush Limbaugh and not Tom Daschle = ) Tad Well Tad, I've no wish to be antagonistic, but then you've been antagonistic, haven't you? Your positioning of yourself is rather precise, though maybe a lot of people here aren't too familiar with Sen. Daschle, who I presume would be to your left? I'll close my eyes and chuck a dart: Sen. Tom Daschle, D-S.D., on Thursday praised the Bush administration's war and nation-building work in Iraq and said he has no serious concerns about the lack of weapons of mass destruction. I don't think the world is too enthusiastic about the idea of its being run as Messrs Limbaugh and Daschle et al would like it run, they do rather keep saying so, in their angry and outraged millions. You were here for a while a couple of years ago, and you've just rejoined, so maybe you haven't realised it, though I do have to keep telling Americans this (again yesterday), but this is not an American list, it has a very international membership from more than a hundred countries and just about every culture, Americans are just a minority here. Biofuels is after all a world issue. What everyone now knows all too well is that the views of many Americans are quite bizarrely out of synch with those of the rest of the world. It's rather clear why, but no need to dwell on that too much - more interesting and useful is that the views of many other Americans are not at all out of synch with those of the rest of the world. To them and to the rest, your message will look the same as it does to me: a declaration of prejudice without any substance. Many would be less kind. So, let's have a look. The Guardian might as well be the National Inquirer, and everyone over there seems to bask in the conspiracy theories and the extreme left, taking both as the ultimate truth. Actually all the articles I've read on the The Guardian make The National Enquirer look very sane and professional. The Guardian is a major newspaper with an excellent and well-deserved worldwide reputation, along with its sister paper The Observer, and The Independent, among national British newpapers. I've worked for all three of them. Right-wing Britishers criticise the Guardian, of course, but they wouldn't dream of levelling your criticisms at it, that would make them objects of derision, even, or probably especially, in Britain's equivalent of the National Enquirer, which is The Sun. I worked for the Sun too, briefly, as a freelancer, and walked out after a couple of days following a spectacular row when I refused to bend a story the way papers like that like to do. I never had such rows at the other three papers - rows, yes, but those ethical issues never even arose, they don't exist there. Now The Sun is owned by Rupert Murdoch. And so, I would say, are your prejudices, though of course you won't agree. You refer to the Guardian because I posted a link to an article there, by George Monbiot, who has an excellent and well-deserved worldwide reputation of his own. Here's the link again: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4412987,00.html The fake persuaders Corporations are inventing people to rubbish their opponents on the internet Now if there's more to your view than just blind prejudice, perhaps you'll tell us just how this article, as you say, basks in extreme-left conspiracy theories that make the National Enquirer look very sane and professional. In fact it's completely accurate, not a conpiracy theory at all, the investigations reported were fully vindicated when, for one thing, Monsanto's Bivings was finally forced to drop their lies and denials and admit their role and what they'd done after being put under considerable pressure by the BBC's news and current affairs programme, Newsnight. Also a pack of raging extreme-left conspiracy-theorist nutters, you think? The only reason they admitted it had nothing to do with ethics or honesty, it was that incontrovertible evidence was rammed up their noses. They were left with no other option but to admit it, which is usually the only way to get anything resembling truth and honesty out of people like that. The damage done was however considerable - spin like this is not easy to undo, and the controversy still rages on, and, as a result, the other thing that still rages on is what it was all about in the first place: GMO contamination of the heritage varieties in the zea mays centre
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
Well Tad, I've no wish to be antagonistic, but then you've been antagonistic, haven't you? I was posting a humorous view of your posting. I was quite surprised that a list of this subject (biodiesel) would contain anything political, nor why there would be any reason for it to contain political propaganda. And no, I don't think The Guardian gives both sides of the story, only one, factual or not. The fact that Daschle said anything about the war or support of Bush only shows one side since he has also fervently opposed the Bush campaign on most of it's views or agenda's. The general consensus is that as Americans, most of us believe that sitting back and doing nothing in terms of retaliation after having our international trade centers destroyed and 4000 people killed would be ridiculous. I'm sure you would feel the same if the center of London was bombed and thousands of people killed simply because of some religious fanatical organizations twisted views. Do we simply sit back and watch this happen every few years and not do anything about it? Is it somehow our fault that we were attacked on 9-11? Is it ok for terrorists to attack and kill not only Americans but also many other nationalities simply for their own twisted religious views by the thousands? I'm not sure what the answers are to these questions, but I'm not sure sitting back and doing nothing is responsible either. I don't agree nor disagree with the war in Iraq. Humans have been ignorantly killing each other for our entire history and I'm not the one who will stop the madness. Nor will whining about it stop it either. I don't intend on voting for Bush, nor Kerry. They are neither of my choices and I don't agree with either one of them. If you remember factual data about world war II is that we were totally neutral until YOU and France became under attack and asked for our assistance, of which we gave without asking for anything in return. We are allies and have been since after our declaration of independence from you. We are allies as well with most of the rest of the world. When there is a disaster in any country, including countries who hate us, we still send our red cross and disaster relief immediately. We send our best trained doctors all over the world to help children and others in need and never ask for anything in return, not even a thank you. We have more humanitarian organizations than most any other country in the world. We also share massive amounts of technology for growing food, resources and technologies that help clean the air with many other countries. Do we make mistakes and have corporate officers who do stupid things or act out of greed? Of course, what country does not? Do we have people who lie to cover up their mistakes and or indiscretions? Certainly, just like every other country in the world. Is it right? Absolutely not, and if you see our court sessions pressing charges against most of these people then you would realize our whole country is not infiltrated with these types of people, but rather just like everyone else, we have them. If it were my world everyone would stop building homes with wood and find an alternative like concrete or some other material. The forests would not be harvested. If it were my world we would simply tell everyone else to keep peace with us and we would keep peace with them. If it were my world we would not be burning any form of liquid fuel, especially fossil fuels. If it were my world we would not have nuclear arsenals. If it were my world we would work together as one planet helping each other clean up the mess we are making and help each other grow more food and help more peopletogether. If it were my world everyone would realize that wether they like it or not, we are all brothers and sisters, period, and we need to treat each other as such. If it were my world there would be no divorce, no orphans, no rape, murder, genocide. There would be no need to grasp for the old mighty dollar. We would all be working on these things and working as a team to colonize other planets and not make the same mistakes we have made with this one. I will not respond to any more political posts simply because I now clearly see it aggravates you, even though I find them humorous. It is not my intent to anger anyone here, even though at the time it looked as though you were directly asking for opinions on your political post. Thus, I am going to leave with a smile of gratitude towards you knowing that I cannot comprehend why political discussions need to take place here and will simply look forward to questions and answers about this solution to some of these problems, the one we call Biodiesel. Tad Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
Tad, I agree. Less politics and more biodiesel. Cheers, J. Curtis Cheney, VII Tad Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well Tad, I've no wish to be antagonistic, but then you've been antagonistic, haven't you? I was posting a humorous view of your posting. I was quite surprised that a list of this subject (biodiesel) would contain anything political, nor why there would be any reason for it to contain political propaganda. And no, I don't think The Guardian gives both sides of the story, only one, factual or not. The fact that Daschle said anything about the war or support of Bush only shows one side since he has also fervently opposed the Bush campaign on most of it's views or agenda's. The general consensus is that as Americans, most of us believe that sitting back and doing nothing in terms of retaliation after having our international trade centers destroyed and 4000 people killed would be ridiculous. I'm sure you would feel the same if the center of London was bombed and thousands of people killed simply because of some religious fanatical organizations twisted views. Do we simply sit back and watch this happen every few years and not do anything about it? Is it somehow our fault that we were attacked on 9-11? Is it ok for terrorists to attack and kill not only Americans but also many other nationalities simply for their own twisted religious views by the thousands? I'm not sure what the answers are to these questions, but I'm not sure sitting back and doing nothing is responsible either. I don't agree nor disagree with the war in Iraq. Humans have been ignorantly killing each other for our entire history and I'm not the one who will stop the madness. Nor will whining about it stop it either. I don't intend on voting for Bush, nor Kerry. They are neither of my choices and I don't agree with either one of them. If you remember factual data about world war II is that we were totally neutral until YOU and France became under attack and asked for our assistance, of which we gave without asking for anything in return. We are allies and have been since after our declaration of independence from you. We are allies as well with most of the rest of the world. When there is a disaster in any country, including countries who hate us, we still send our red cross and disaster relief immediately. We send our best trained doctors all over the world to help children and others in need and never ask for anything in return, not even a thank you. We have more humanitarian organizations than most any other country in the world. We also share massive amounts of technology for growing food, resources and technologies that help clean the air with many other countries. Do we make mistakes and have corporate officers who do stupid things or act out of greed? Of course, what country does not? Do we have people who lie to cover up their mistakes and or indiscretions? Certainly, just like every other country in the world. Is it right? Absolutely not, and if you see our court sessions pressing charges against most of these people then you would realize our whole country is not infiltrated with these types of people, but rather just like everyone else, we have them. If it were my world everyone would stop building homes with wood and find an alternative like concrete or some other material. The forests would not be harvested. If it were my world we would simply tell everyone else to keep peace with us and we would keep peace with them. If it were my world we would not be burning any form of liquid fuel, especially fossil fuels. If it were my world we would not have nuclear arsenals. If it were my world we would work together as one planet helping each other clean up the mess we are making and help each other grow more food and help more peopletogether. If it were my world everyone would realize that wether they like it or not, we are all brothers and sisters, period, and we need to treat each other as such. If it were my world there would be no divorce, no orphans, no rape, murder, genocide. There would be no need to grasp for the old mighty dollar. We would all be working on these things and working as a team to colonize other planets and not make the same mistakes we have made with this one. I will not respond to any more political posts simply because I now clearly see it aggravates you, even though I find them humorous. It is not my intent to anger anyone here, even though at the time it looked as though you were directly asking for opinions on your political post. Thus, I am going to leave with a smile of gratitude towards you knowing that I cannot comprehend why political discussions need to take place here and will simply look forward to questions and answers about this solution to some of these problems, the one we call Biodiesel. Tad Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
Tad, So you can't see how broadly dispersed and surgically placed mis- and dis-information at the executive levels of corporations and political circles has anything to do with biofuels? H. Then it's a fair guess that you also wouldn't be able to see a direct link to the elaborately constructed tax schedules concocted by politicians and supported by corporations which mask the true cost of liquid fuels so that American don't know what price they should be paying at the pump were there no manipulations of market forces? Or find anything unethical/unprincipled about the behind locked doors meetings on energy policy conducted by a vice-president and energy industry interests? And then you would like to express that remarks or articles or reports that are revealing relative to such biased political and industrial tactics are propaganda? Your train also jumps track in the middle of that stream of thought into a nearly universal distortion amongst Americans that the war in Iraq was justified as a result of the actions of a group that took refuge in Afghanistan. Seems highly possible, perhaps even probable, that if you aren't able to get contemporary history in proper alignment with the facts that you could just as easily get industrial history equally as skewed. It is also apparent your Americanized version of history relative to US entry in WWII should be pointed out. All very noble your version, but inaccurate. FDR had been preparing for what appeared to be an inevitable draw into a war as early as 1939, when he got Congress to repeal the arms embargo provisions of the neutrality law, permitting arms to be sold to France and Britain. Yes..., American industry was gearing up for war in the face of neutrality as early as 1939. You'll also find some obscure historical records relative to lend-lease, dating back to December of 1940, where FDR introduced the idea of lend-lease of military equipment to Britain rather than extending outright loans to fund a war, with the terms of the lease permitting repayment to occur after the war (presuming the British client survived) in the form of goods and services. And then, of course, there is that teeny tiny little matter of Pearl Harbor which was the igniter switch for official American entry into the war. You do remember Pearl Harbor? You would serve yourself well in reading the Anti-Comintern Pact of 1936 where you will begin to see the inextricable entwining of Pearl Harbor and a European war. Throw in a dose of the Tripartite Pact of 1940 for good measure and your notion of US entry into WWII as a measure of gallantry crumbles into dust. Oh, just one other thing... Naw.., make that two other things. You might care to get a handle on the vast differences in energy consumption and carbon storage between cement/concrete production and sustainable harvest of timber for housing. The second is that it is your world. Waiting for someone to hand you the keys to the kingdom, along with your expression of willingness to throw away part of your ability to attempt to change the direction of this ship of state (the US) by not exercising your vote - is a bit irresponsible. Not that a vote is the be-all and end-all in the process of social industry. But it's of a great deal more value than evidenced by the casual manner in which you would choose to discard it. Hopefully you begin to gather the import of some of your misperceptions... if for no other reason than the sake of everyone else. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Tad Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 6:44 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics Well Tad, I've no wish to be antagonistic, but then you've been antagonistic, haven't you? I was posting a humorous view of your posting. I was quite surprised that a list of this subject (biodiesel) would contain anything political, nor why there would be any reason for it to contain political propaganda. And no, I don't think The Guardian gives both sides of the story, only one, factual or not. The fact that Daschle said anything about the war or support of Bush only shows one side since he has also fervently opposed the Bush campaign on most of it's views or agenda's. The general consensus is that as Americans, most of us believe that sitting back and doing nothing in terms of retaliation after having our international trade centers destroyed and 4000 people killed would be ridiculous. I'm sure you would feel the same if the center of London was bombed and thousands of people killed simply because of some religious fanatical organizations twisted views. Do we simply sit back and watch this happen every few years and not do anything about it? Is it somehow our fault that we were attacked on 9-11? Is it ok for terrorists to attack and kill not only Americans but also many other nationalities simply for their own twisted religious views by the thousands?
[biofuel] Re: Standard method for making biodiesel
Hi Prathap, As Keith would say 'there is no one right way to make biodiesel' Basically you need some kind of fat, whether it be animal or vegetable, liquid or solid and make methyl esters out of it... but using ethanol or methanol and either a base like Caustic Soda. Naturally someone will point out the intricate inadequacies of this explanation, but take it as a general overview. Without being a confessed expert, but as someone who has been observing this newsgroup for quite sometime, the best information resource is on http://journeytoforever.org/ in particular http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html and find your way from there.. www.veggieavenger.com is another site you could spend days on, with more 'case study' type information, with pics, etc. if this still fails to satisfy your thirst for knowledge, then jump on to google and search for Biodiesel. btw dont go buy a book.. there is more than enough information available on the net for free! and dont make an 'open processor' it will all make sense in time.. Good luck! Michael --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Prathap CN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any method set as a standard for producing biodiesel? If so where can i get info about that method? If there is no standard method, which is the efficient method to get the biodiesel from straight vegetable oil. Is it Aleks kac's Fool Proof Method? Please help! Prathap _ Easiest Money Transfer to India. Send Money To 6000 Indian Towns. http://go.msnserver.com/IN/42198.asp Easiest Way To Send Money Home! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
So it's acceptable to spread mis-information, knowingly or not, and once that's done the delcaration that everyone should return to all matters of biofuels and cease and desist with what the poster deems to be irrelevant should be adhered to? Don't think life works that way in the real world. You don't lay a foundation on quicksand and then move forward to construct the walls and roof, at least not if you expect to wake up in the morning. Nor is it acceptable to strew garbage in the path of others with an expectation that they will just step over it, pretending that it doesn't exist. Wishful thinking that and an eqaully unrealistic expectation. What is the proverb about the butterfly moving its wings on one side of the planet giving cause for stir thousands of miles away? All things are relative in some fashion or another. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: J. Curtis Cheney, VII [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics Tad, I agree. Less politics and more biodiesel. Cheers, J. Curtis Cheney, VII Tad Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well Tad, I've no wish to be antagonistic, but then you've been antagonistic, haven't you? I was posting a humorous view of your posting. I was quite surprised that a list of this subject (biodiesel) would contain anything political, nor why there would be any reason for it to contain political propaganda. And no, I don't think The Guardian gives both sides of the story, only one, factual or not. The fact that Daschle said anything about the war or support of Bush only shows one side since he has also fervently opposed the Bush campaign on most of it's views or agenda's. The general consensus is that as Americans, most of us believe that sitting back and doing nothing in terms of retaliation after having our international trade centers destroyed and 4000 people killed would be ridiculous. I'm sure you would feel the same if the center of London was bombed and thousands of people killed simply because of some religious fanatical organizations twisted views. Do we simply sit back and watch this happen every few years and not do anything about it? Is it somehow our fault that we were attacked on 9-11? Is it ok for terrorists to attack and kill not only Americans but also many other nationalities simply for their own twisted religious views by the thousands? I'm not sure what the answers are to these questions, but I'm not sure sitting back and doing nothing is responsible either. I don't agree nor disagree with the war in Iraq. Humans have been ignorantly killing each other for our entire history and I'm not the one who will stop the madness. Nor will whining about it stop it either. I don't intend on voting for Bush, nor Kerry. They are neither of my choices and I don't agree with either one of them. If you remember factual data about world war II is that we were totally neutral until YOU and France became under attack and asked for our assistance, of which we gave without asking for anything in return. We are allies and have been since after our declaration of independence from you. We are allies as well with most of the rest of the world. When there is a disaster in any country, including countries who hate us, we still send our red cross and disaster relief immediately. We send our best trained doctors all over the world to help children and others in need and never ask for anything in return, not even a thank you. We have more humanitarian organizations than most any other country in the world. We also share massive amounts of technology for growing food, resources and technologies that help clean the air with many other countries. Do we make mistakes and have corporate officers who do stupid things or act out of greed? Of course, what country does not? Do we have people who lie to cover up their mistakes and or indiscretions? Certainly, just like every other country in the world. Is it right? Absolutely not, and if you see our court sessions pressing charges against most of these people then you would realize our whole country is not infiltrated with these types of people, but rather just like everyone else, we have them. If it were my world everyone would stop building homes with wood and find an alternative like concrete or some other material. The forests would not be harvested. If it were my world we would simply tell everyone else to keep peace with us and we would keep peace with them. If it were my world we would not be burning any form of liquid fuel, especially fossil fuels. If it were my world we would not have nuclear arsenals. If it were my world we would work together as one planet helping each other clean up the mess we are making and help each other grow more food and help more peopletogether. If it were my world everyone would realize that wether they
Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
Hallo Tad, Monday, 29 March, 2004, 06:44:21, you wrote: ...snip... TJ Do we simply sit back and watch this happen every few years and TJ not do anything about it? Is it somehow our fault that we were TJ attacked on 9-11? Is it ok for terrorists to attack and kill not TJ only Americans but also many other nationalities simply for their TJ own twisted religious views by the thousands? TJ I'm not sure what the answers are to these questions, but I'm not TJ sure sitting back and doing nothing is responsible either. ...snip... Is it somehow our fault that we were attacked on 9-11? Yes, we have to accept some of the responsibility for that attack ourselves. Our government has made choices, often poor, evil and self-serving choices, which have pushed people into the state of mind they are now in. If you look at the history of the modern state of Israel you will find that its inception is rooted in terrorism and that it is, in fact, the largest sponsor of terrorism on the planet today. None of Israels actions are steps towards peace but rather are steps towards conquest and control. And who do you think has supported this terrorism? Uncle Sam. Now Pat Boone sings a nice song and perhaps God did give the entire region to Israel, but the deed was never registered and made public and there is a dispute over those claims. Particularly since the Israel of today is 10 times larger than the Israel of the old testament Israel. Brings the word Lebensraum to mind. Now brother, suppose the Canadian or Mexican army came across the borders and began blowing up hotels, assassinating officials and military officers, killing off political figures and businessmen, bulldozing houses and destroying farms, killing civilians, targeting people's eyes or knees, building walls and fences and roping folks off, disallowing freedom of movement, destroying the economy and making paupers and serfs out of our citizens all the while calling anyone who fought back against such outrage terrorists. Further suppose that the state doing this to us was supported by the richest and most powerful nation on earth. Given carte blanche. Do anything you want to them. We will back you. After several decades of such treatment do you not suppose that we would be striking out not only against those directly oppressing us but at those supporting them? It is only reasonable. Suppose further that this was taken before the UN and while there were numerous resolutions concerning both sides that powerful nation and a good share of the rest of the world insisted that ONLY the resolutions concerning us needed to be upheld and they just blew off the resolutions concerning our attackers. Might that not tend to piss a poor boy off? Suppose that the occupying nation made it a practice to assassinate the moderates among us and the most dangerous of the radicals so that they HAD to deal with the radicals because they killed off the reasonable leaders? That is precisely an Israeli tactic and we support them. If we are going to hold others accountable for their actions we need to be accountable for our own. Nothing is happening in a vacuum and whether or not we like it there are reasons for the 911 attack which are understandable.That doesn't make it right but at least understandable. If we are unwilling to accept the responsiblilty for our actions we can hardly ask anyone else to do so. We also need to remember that what goes around does come around. Everyone needs to remember that. As long as the catch phrases remain bottom line and national interest then we are not talking about behaving responsibily. Until we become (as a world) reasonable, responsible, disciplined and restrained we are going to have to expect things such as 911 and the like to happen. If we can't see any further down the road than the end of our noses we better get some spectacles and if we continue to allow one people anywhere to be oppressed then we are not doing our job as human beings. Fanatics only grow where the soil is fertile. It would behoove us not to fertilize that soil. That is irresponsible as is holding one people to one standard and another to a different standard. Let us speak plainly and call things what they are. The Israelis are as much terrorists as the Palestinians or anyone else. Because they happen to be a state only lends the appearance of legitimacy to their acts but does not make their acts right or reasonable. Is what I am saying anti-semitism? No. Speaking against any violence is only reasonable and responsible. Calling aggression and hostility by one side self-defense and that of the other side terrorism is only political maneuvering and obfuscation and in the end totally dishonest. We all need to clean up our own houses and take the
[biofuel] Re:I am only in search on how to make methanol
I will like to know how to make methanol and the possible efects on my car. Thank you. William Burnett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
This is what's keeps bugging me. At the pump diesel fuel is 66 C (Cdn) per litre. Bulk canola oil, grown here, in Ontario, $1.27 per litre , in 55 gal barrels (I have to pick it up). There seems to be a huge disparity in cost. At one end , its a processed diesel fuel, byproduct of crude oil, which went through many different cycles + retail at the pump, just have to press a button to fill the tank. At the other end is a product grown locally and stored at the warehouse with minimal processing built in? And they don't look like people working on 1000 % profit... Something doesn't add up... Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
Tad Johnson wrote: I was quite surprised that a list of this subject (biodiesel) would contain anything political, nor why there would be any reason for it to contain political propaganda. First of all, the subject of this list is NOT exclusive to biodiesel. Secondly, it is impossible to separate energy issues from politics. The fact that Daschle said anything about the war or support of Bush only shows one side since he has also fervently opposed the Bush campaign on most of it's views or agenda's. The general consensus is that as Americans, most of us believe that sitting back and doing nothing in terms of retaliation after having our international trade centers destroyed and 4000 people killed would be ridiculous. This is a complex issue that deserves careful thought and deliberation. There is NO evidence that Iraq had anything to do with the atrocity at the World Trade Center, as there is no evidence that their weapons programs continued after the first Gulf War. The presence of American troops in Iraq has been justified by the current administration first because of the threat posed by alleged weapons of mass destruction, and secondly, to eliminate a cruel dictator and establish democracy. But our military forces crushed the Iraqi army quite handily. The Iraqis had no ability to project their power overseas. No evidence of any current weapons of mass destruction has materialized in over a year that we've had the ability to investigate any site in Iraq at will. The truth of the matter is that Iraq posed no threat to us at all. Now that we're there, however, American soldiers are dying on a daily basis. If we were truly interested in establishing democracy and eliminating the threat of terrorism, we should be involved in changing the Saudi Arabian regime--an oppressive kingdom with a biencephalic form of government that should be an anathma to anyone genuinely interested in democracy. Further, substantial evidence exists that a complex web of funding from Saudi Arabia supports organizations directly and indirectly involved in terrorism. Most of the conspirators involved in the 11 September atrocity were Saudi. Yet we attacked Iraq, and most of us Americans are under the mistaken impression that Iraq was a threat. The real issue at stake is energy. American foreign policy has tiptoed around the Saudis for many years because of our desperate need for their oil. The need for oil creates political attitudes and military action. The link between political attitudes and military action underscores the need for this type of discussion on a biofuels list. If it were my world everyone would stop building homes with wood and find an alternative like concrete or some other material. The manufacture of concrete is an intensely energy consumptive process. Trees, at least, are renewable. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] hydrogen
You mean like it is a cryogenic fluid when stored as a liquid? Greg H. - Original Message - From: brainchild0069 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 15:12 Subject: [biofuel] hydrogen Does anybody know what are the hazards of storing and using hydrogen? Aside from the same hazards of storing any flammable gas,I mean. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] methanol recovery before separation
Catching up on ancient email. If one continues mixing until the reaction is complete and I have not heard of any evidence that indicates separation is required for the reaction to complete and then introduces into the reactor enough acid to quench the sodium catalyst then I see no reason why you should not be able to recover the methanol before separation. In fact if you follow the Fool proof method then you do almost exactly this. You separate the glycerin, mix it with phosphoric acid and mix it back into your biodiesel. You've quenched the reaction right there and have everything mixed up. If it's critical to add the acid to the glycerin for some reason (which I don't quite see) you should have plenty on hand from previous reactions. kk Thomus Patton wrote: Hello I'm a chemical engineering student working on a biodiesel production facility design project with my senior design group at NCSU. We are only in the initial stages and do not have a lot of kinetic data yet, but I would think that removing methanol would certainly be detrimental to your yield. I do not know if the resulting equilibrium shift towards reactants would be more than you were willing to give up or not, but something tells me it would certainly be noticeable based on the fact that most recipes suggest using a large excess of alcohol to push equilibrium towards the products (biodiesel and glycerin). lagonisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello to all: I have read some contributions to this group about methanol recovery and the different options. I would like to try the recovery before separation of bio and glycerol using a condenser that would receive the methanol fumes after finishing the reaction. I have a processor were I get 75¼C-80¼C as it is pressurized to 0,7 bar. The problem is that I have also read that due to the reversibility of the reaction, if after finishing my reaction I remove the methanol by reducing the pressure and directing the vapours through a condenser, or even I apply vacuum after despressurizing to do it faster, I can get a reduction of the conversion transforming some biodiesel into oil again. My question is: has anyone in this group measured or experienced this fact? Is there a real decrease of the yield or conversion? Lagonisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Alternative health and nutrition information
Firstly, I would like to say thank you to Keith for his invitation to post this URL, and now the link; http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com/health.html#apple It contains caloric values, charts and other health and nutrition information not generally in the mainstream and at times debunks much of what mainstream teaches. Have a nice day. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
Have you noticed that the american tabloids don't touch much on politics? Fred On Monday, Mar 29, 2004, at 02:49 US/Eastern, Tad Johnson wrote: If I wanted SPIN I would read the National Enquirer. The Guardian might as well be the National Inquirer, and everyone over there seems to bask in the conspiracy theories and the extreme left, taking both as the ultimate truth. Actually all the articles I've read on the The Guardian make The National Enquirer look very sane and professional. I would be intrigued if the world would run as that newspaper would like it run, might be an interesting experiment. In the meantime I will stay right here in the middle of the spectrum. Not Rush Limbaugh and not Tom Daschle = ) Tad Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Formerly, when religion was strong and science weak, men mistook magic for medicine; now, when science is strong and religion weak, men mistake medicine for magic. Thomas Szasz [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can I please get some help ?
Dag Pieter Hi all. Yesterday and today I made my first batch of BD using the foolproof method. Neither in the acid stage, nor in the second stage any separation occured. The methanol is floating on the top and the whole lot looks like coffee with too much milk in it. At the bottom I find some salt, which is probably NaOH. The oil I used is a very good quality, almost SVO. What have I done wrong ? I couln't get the temperature higher than 35¡ C. I have tried to do it exactly as Aleks Kac writes on the site. Groeten, Pieter Netherlands. This is very puzzling. I can't imagine how you achieved such a result. We've used the acid-base method with all kinds of oils in all kinds of conditions, good and bad, and considerably tortured the method as well, but we never got it not to work. This is both the current version and the previous version, which works well, but we prefer the revised version. Actually we don't use either of them as standard, we use quite a severe adaptation, for various reasons, but it's based entirely on the Foolproof method, and if that wasn't reliable this wouldn't work at all. We also regularly do a batch the regular way, as it's written, without any problems. Quality's always high, yields high, no wash problems. Certainly never any methanol floating on top, and it always splits well at the beginning of the second stage. Anyway, you haven't provided much information. You do have a strange way of making biodiesel by the single-stage base method - we established it still contains unreacted material, as well as various impurities because you don't wash it. So if you want us to troubleshoot your acid-base tests, we really need details rather than taking anything for granted. So. How much oil did you use - was this a small test batch? I hope so. How did you heat it and how did you agitate it? How did you mix the methoxide? - I can't imagine anything that would separate the NaOH unless you didn't mix it thoroughly in the first place. Acid would separate it from the glycerine by-product cocktail, but it would need more acid to do that than the amount of sulphuric acid specified, which should have been more than neutralised by the methoxide anyway. How much sulphuric acid did you use? What was the purity? What proportion of the total amount of methanol is floating on top? For how long did you process each stage? How long did it settle in between? And how come the low second-stage temperature? Beste Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
Well again Tad... Seems I was right about Mr Murdoch, sad. You're obviously well-intentioned, but I'm afraid many of those very same good intentions have been paving other people's roads to hell for quite a long time. All the myths of Middle America, eh? I'll have to respond to some of them, and to your hopelessly skewed view of this list, what it is and why. Then I'll no doubt be accused of hating America or some such BS. Well, so what. Well Tad, I've no wish to be antagonistic, but then you've been antagonistic, haven't you? I was posting a humorous view of your posting. That's what you're saying now - you didn't expect to be called on it, so you're trying to back off a bit. Put up or shut up, basically, which anybody here should be able to do, but you've sidestepped it, or tried to. Loud protests, but no substantive response other than it was just a joke. Along with the usual snipping style in such cases, as if we're all ostriches. But okay, go ahead. I was quite surprised that a list of this subject (biodiesel) This is NOT a *biodiesel* list, though it's an excellent place for all things biodiesel. It's a *biofuels* list, which is and has to be a much broader subject than just bd techie-talk. It comes with an essential context, and with the list having such a broad membership it's not possible to say what exactly is on-topic and what's not - it's often been tried, and never produced anything that made any sense other than to the very small and unrepresentative section of the membership that tried it. Darryl just said this: Over the time I have spent on this e-mail list, I have concluded there is no scheme. It's a very open and educational forum, open to debate on a wide range of topics. I embrace the rigour of debate I have found here, the focus on finding facts, delving into stories and getting a much better understanding of the whole story around many situations. In fact there are a couple of list rules about it, see below. would contain anything political, nor why there would be any reason for it to contain political propaganda. Political? All that means is stuff you don't agree with. Propaganda also means that. You don't agree with that? Check it out for yourself. Prior to your posts it was about corporations and corporate ethics, which is not politics, though it has political undertones. It's an old thread, revived now when another member posted some anti-environment Wise Use disinformation that had little to do with the subject line, but still no actual politics. My response exposed the disinformation aspect of it and asked some questions about other posts from that member, which had more to do with corporate ethics, if any, but still no politics. Another member brushed close to it when he said they (business and government) are people, who attempt to balance a bottom line profit for their stockholders. LOL! But still no politics - not until YOU brought it up, with your talk of the extreme left, Rush Limbaugh and Tom Daschle. Politics. And again now, with this post. And since that's the case, you don't get to skip away unscathed from your own inept attempt at political propaganda with a cop-out like this following, not if you want to retain any credibility: I will not respond to any more political posts simply because I now clearly see it aggravates you, even though I find them humorous. It is not my intent to anger anyone here, even though at the time it looked as though you were directly asking for opinions on your political post. Political yourself. You guys just can't take it, eh? The one gets all hostile and says I have a pent-up hostility problem, and you say it aggravates me. Nope, just straight talk. Maybe you're just not used to dealing with different points of view or having to justify your own, but you'll have to get used to it here. And no, I don't think The Guardian gives both sides of the story, only one, factual or not. And that's how far you get to back off. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4412987,00.html The fake persuaders Corporations are inventing people to rubbish their opponents on the internet Which side of the story did Monbiot/The Guardian not give but should have, in your view? No wriggling this time please, straight answers only. See reinstated text below for context. The fact that Daschle said anything about the war or support of Bush only shows one side since he has also fervently opposed the Bush campaign on most of it's views or agenda's. Nonetheless he said it: Sen. Tom Daschle, D-S.D., on Thursday praised the Bush administration's war and nation-building work in Iraq and said he has no serious concerns about the lack of weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't intended to be representative, nor presented as such. As I said I chucked a dart. Really - I put Daschle into Google and that's the first thing I saw apart from his campaign site. Nonetheless, it does rather put the
Re: [biofuel] Standard method for making biodiesel
Is there any method set as a standard for producing biodiesel? If so where can i get info about that method? If there is no standard method, which is the efficient method to get the biodiesel from straight vegetable oil. Is it Aleks kac's Fool Proof Method? Please help! Prathap Hello Prathap There are standards for product quality: National standards for biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#biodstds The main standard methods are single-stage base transesterification and two-stage acid-base esterification-transesterification, both of which will produce fuel that meets the quality standards, if done properly. They're detailed at Journey to Forever: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html ... with further information in the list archives: Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Aleks Kac's Foolproof acid-base method is increasingly the method of choice for experienced biofuellers, but please note that it's not for novices. See: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Which method to use? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#which You should read that entire section on making biodiesel, two long pages with many links to further pages. Best wishes Keith Addison Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Corporate ethics
Further to which... http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18259 The Christian Taliban Best Keith Some really sick crap.. http://www.cdfe.org/ Pick a link. According to these asinigned zealots the sypmtoms are the cause of the disease. Some of them may be zealots, but I think most of them are just... damn, the term that's used is whores, but that's an abusive term for prostitutes and using it this way defames them: it implies dishonesty and carries contempt, which is unjust. Can't think of an apt term for these folks. Whores then, for now, with due reservation. Think I'd rather bed down with the Taliban. At least their doctrine has some assemblance of social order and construct other than exploiting anything and everything for a buck. There are terrorists and then there are terrorists. Todd Swearingen Appal Energy The Taliban is more honest - whatever their principles and actions might be (execrable in many ways), they at least hold to them because they believe in them, not because they're paid to. Though they did accept rather a lot of millions of dollars in US support... but you didn't see them spouting a lot of US propaganda as a result. I don't think they're any worse than Christian fundamentalist extremists or any other kind of fundamentalist extremists, maybe not as bad in some ways. (Keith supports Taliban! LOL!) Are the Taliban terrorists though? They did and do support Al-Qaeda, which is also a creation of US funding and support, and possibly more than that. The US is itelf a major supporter of terrorists, from the mujahideen to Fort Benning, and much more besides. (Ah, but they're *our* terrorists. For now maybe...) But I don't think the Taliban itself has been guilty of terrorism. Whereas the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise and its ilk... Since the late 1980's, CDFE has been at the center of the Wise Use movement. CDFE was originally founded by Alan Gottlieb July 4, 1976. The Second Amendment Foundation and the Citizen's Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms were founded at the same time, and CDFE is still affiliated with both gun groups. According to the New York Times, Gottlieb shifted his focus to environmentalism when he realized the fundraising potential. The New York Times wrote, For conservative fundraisers like Mr. Gottlieb, the enemies were Senator Edward M. Kennedy and the threat of gun control. But now Mr. Gottlieb has found a better target. 'For us' said Mr. Gottlieb...'the environmental movement has become the perfect bogeyman.' CDFE is a 501(c)3 tax-exempt organization. The Taliban are not whores. Are people like CDFE terrorists? I think so. This is terrorism: 12/19/03 BOOK REVIEWS Eco-Imperialism: Green Power, Black Death Read the rave reviews of Paul Driessen's new book that exposes the green racist agenda to withhold malaria control and life-saving GMO crops from Africa and other developing nations. A horrifying account of green genocide. Inasmuch as info-toxins like this convince the gullible, which clearly they do, people's lives and livelihoods are destroyed en masse. The malaria-control bit is pro-DDT, which is an environmental disaster - great stuff for small-farmer communities entirely dependent on a healthy and functioning ecology. The pro-DDT lobbying is helping to hold up research on far more promising solutions without the unacceptable costs, such as this, yesterday: http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/24455/story.htm Studies Show Promise in Fight Against Malaria I've got a whole file of stuff like that, and what's obvious is that not nearly enough funding is going into it, despite the huge death toll and its crippling effect - there's more money in DDT. Life-saving GMO crops? The Africans don't think so, and withstood immense US pressure in the face of a famine to reject them. In India, this is what happens: One video project currently underway is a series monthly interviews with cotton farmers accompanied by filming of their transgenic Bt Cotton crops as they have been growing over the current season. Even before the season is over, the videos are recording the changing mood of the farmers as it turns from enthusiasm to disappointment. Once the cotton is harvested (if there is still cotton to harvest, the results have been so poor so far) the video will be used as part of the campaign against genetically engineered crops. A preliminary report has already been prepared by three scientists and reported in New India Express. On the same day, The Hindu reported the suicides of three farmers. There have been thousands of farmer suicides because of this. That GMOs will help prevent famine in the 3rd World is a lie, and a murderous one. Rolling back health and environmental controls on hazardous chemicals by means of further paid-for lies is also murderous. But maybe that's not really terrorism - terrorism is indeed killing innocent civilians, but usually in pursuit of a political agenda, not
[biofuel] For attention J. Curtis Cheney, VII - was Re: Corporate ethics
Tad, I agree. Less politics and more biodiesel. Cheers, J. Curtis Cheney, VII Curtis, you've been here long enough to know how this list works. This issue has come up before during that time, moderator's messages have been posted on it, headed PLEASE READ... etc. If you don't read them that's your lookout. I've just posted the relevant rule once again with an explanation in response to Tad's letter that you (alone) are agreeing with, but I'll post it again: Another aspect is the attitude the list steadily developed to what's on-topic and what's not. Biofuels is a subject with a context, and we decided we had to include the context - if all you want is to learn how to make biodiesel, for instance, this is a very good place to be, but it's also a lot more than that. The biofuels context varies from place to place, and as individual members' circumstances vary, and it becomes very difficult or impossible to say quite what is on-topic and what's not. What has nothing to do with biofuels is very much a matter of opinion. Also it's been found many times that what might appear at first to be digressions end up yielding on-topic information that would not otherwise have arisen. These are mature people (mostly!), they don't need a nanny to tell them how to behave, when they do stray they're aware of it and seldom go too far. It became list policy to keep the discussion open, and this has the strong backing of the majority of the membership - these are among the very few rules we have here: NO TOPIC-COPS. NO CALLS FOR RESTRICTED DISCUSSION. It's my job to enforce those rules, and I do so. So, feel free, please, discuss whatever you like. :-) Others have since added their views supporting this. This is a discussion list, not a less-discussion list. Don't try to restrict the discussions here. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Biofuel list owner. Tad Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well Tad, I've no wish to be antagonistic, but then you've been antagonistic, haven't you? I was posting a humorous view of your posting. I was quite surprised that a snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (fwd) What's in a Gallon of Gas?
I think we've talked about this before. I am skeptical of the value of this comparison. For example, in 27 grams of aluminum, there are ~~600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms. Interesting to know, but only useful to a scientist/engineer. In the biomass - gasoline comparison, they say that burning that gallon releases 20 pounds of carbon dioxide. What about the other several tons of matter? Well it was lost at some point in decomposition. It's just a 'wow' factor, just to say how inefficient our energy source is. It is farily misleading and useless. It could also make the uninformed person think that growing any sort of crop for fuel is idiotic. -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ murdoch wrote: Yes, we've seen this person's research before, but it bears repeating for those who might not have seen it. Discover Data: What's in a Gallon of Gas? By Susan Kruglinski DISCOVER Vol. 25 No. 04 | April 2004 | Environment What's in a Gallon of Gas? Everyone knows fossil fuels come from long-dead plants, but Jeffrey Dukes wanted real numbers: How much plant matter does it take to make a gallon of gasoline? Dukes, a biologist, ecologist, and dabbler in biogeochemistry at the University of Massachusetts, discovered that such statistics are hard to find. So he decided to figure them out for himself and was surprised by the answers. A gallon of gas represents roughly 100 tons of plant matter, the amount that exists in 40 acres of wheat. Burning that gallon puts 20 pounds of carbon dioxide into the air. The annual consumption of gasoline in the United States, about 131 billion gallons of gas, is equivalent to 25 quadrillion pounds of prehistoric biomass and releases some 2.6 trillion pounds of carbon dioxide. The numbers are even more sobering when you consider all the fossil fuelscoal, natural gas, and oil that people consume. Since 1751, roughly the start of the Industrial Revolution, humans have burned the amount of fossil fuel that would have come from all the plants on Earth for 13,300 years. We know that fossil-fuel use is not sustainable in the long run, Dukes says. This study will, I hope, encourage people to face up to the energy problem now. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Can I please get some help ?
I sometimes also get that 'salt' looking thing that Pieter is talking about. Mine falls out at the end of the acid stage if I let it sit for a few days. mark - I can't imagine anything that would separate the NaOH unless you didn't mix it thoroughly in the first place. Acid would separate it from the glycerine by-product cocktail, but it would need more acid to do that than the amount of sulphuric acid specified, which should have been more than neutralised by the methoxide anyway. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
