RE: [biofuel] Received a message from biofuel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com biofuel-unsubscribe
Unfortunately folks, no matter what Microsoft or any third party s/w company produce to counter this situation, it will be hacked in a very short time. A similar situation exists for online gamers, a world dogged by a minority of people who cheat using hacks to give them an unfair advantage over honest just wanna have fun players. Many anti-cheat software systems have been developed to counter the problem but all are hacked within days of release and are rendered useless. There is a new anticheat being released shortly, written by a very clever programmer, it could be a big breakthrough in the gaming world, if it works. The problem is there are very clever hackers who just love the challenge of cracking a new system - what a waste of amazing talent intellect. If only these people could direct their energies to contribute rather than abuse. The best advice would be: Keep your Windows system updated Run antivirus software, regularly updated Run a firewall, regularly updated - Best of all - get a router with a built-in hardware firewall Run anti-adware software so you're not broadcasting your IP or e-mail addresses None of these will truly protect you from the most determined hacker, but the harder you make it the more likely they will move on to an easier target. If anyone needs any advice with any of the above, I'd be glad to lend a hand, just mail me. Between myself, my stepson his co-workers we have quite a wealth of knowledge on internet security programming (one co-worker has written system control software for Powergen, the QE2 etc) Cheers Malcolm Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 May 2004 20:04 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Received a message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] biofuel-unsubscribe I received a message from that email address. The email contains an attachment. Being the suspicious type, I expect it's an attempt to infect me with a virus, since I have not yet unsubscribed from this list. Anyone else seen such emails? Bryan False sender's address, can't be helped. Certainly a virus. We've had quite a few viruses purporting to come from Yahoo. We've even had viruses purporting to come from Journey to Forever, even from us personally, doing things like warning us that our email service is going to be closed down, please see the attachment (not!). It's happening to everyone, including a lot of the big environment groups, NGOs, businesses, all sorts of people. Keep your system properly patched and protected, keep your virus gear up to date, be a suspicious type. You can't get a virus via the group, by the way, it just can't happen. But you can get a virus from a false address pretending to be from the group, though you should be able to see the difference, as you did with this. Dear old Micro$oft, what a disaster. Yes, sure, if you keep it all squeaky-clean then there's no problem, right. Maybe it's even true, but during the most recent virus onslaught something like 70 million Windoze computers were infected and spewing out viruses and spam, the owners all cheerfully unaware. A security survey of a million computers in businesses in the US found an *average* infection rate of 28 viruses and worms per machine. It won't get better until M$ wakes up to the idea that maybe a secure OS might be something to think about. Holding your breath is contraindicated. Dumbo system administrators who set up protection systems that automatically send the damned things *back* to where they almost certainly didn't come from don't exactly help, but it seems to be their default mode. :-( Keith [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] It has happened twice now.
I successfully made one batch using WVO but that required a double processing and came away matching all the numbers I have read about, BUT twice now I have doen the folowing and with nearly the same results. Could someone please point out the flaw ? WVO = 500ml heated to 130F. Using the Better Titration method I titrate it using a PH meter to be 1gr extra (4ml%4=1). then I add that to the basic 4.9 potasium Hydroxide for 5.9gr and then divide by two (for the 500ml batch) The methoxide is very well mixed and I add it to the blender oil (still at 130F) slowly and let it blend for 15-18 minutes. After settling I get a distinct seperation of very dark, almost black on the bottom and a redish dark top layer (the BD) but as soon as I put it to the shake test (150ml unwashed BD to 150ml water at room temp) I get mayonaise that won't completely break even after two days. I got to be doing something wrong here. I am going to try one more time using sodiuk instead of potassium and see if I get the same results and then I will have to start questioning the PH meter and the source of WVO, not to mention my ability to understand a laid out process. Should I dump the PH meter and go with strips ? Maybe use the other liquid penolphalene (or something like that) that makes it go magenta for 10 seconds when it reaches 8.5 PH? My scale is top shelf electronic. The chems are fresh from the chem supply house, the oil was still warm when I sampled it :) I am using 100% isopropyl (I now have LOTS of it,4.5lt)I mix in the oil while the jar is sitting in warm water and it never really does get 100% clear but I keep on stirring it throughout the titration process aas I add the .01% lye solution (made according to the Better Titration specs) I am now thoughroughly stumped as to what I did wrong. Luc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] The ultimate bio fuel goes agag
May 17 2004 Camper van thief siphons off raw sewage instead of diesel By Calum Macdonald A BUNGLING thief tried to siphon diesel from a camper van but got a mouthful of raw sewage. The would-be raider missed the fuel tank in the dark and put a tube into the van's septic tank by mistake. And after sucking up the foul-smelling waste, he threw up on the spot and fled. Pensioner John O'Hare found a puddle of vomit and an abandoned petrol container when he stepped out of the van in the morning. And last night he smiled: 'I hope the thief has learned from his experience and given up his evil ways.' John, 73, and wife May, 69 of Arden, Glasgow had spent a week touring Scotland before stopping off for the final night of their holiday in Helensburgh, Dunbartonshire. John said: 'We made sure everything was safe and secure and settled down for the night. The following morning we were disgusted to find that under the cover of darkness a thief had attempted to siphon off diesel from the fuel tank. 'But fortunately for us, he was left with a nasty taste in his mouth.' John found a plastic siphon tube and an empty fuel container next to their camper. The contents of the septic tank had been drained and lay on the ground next to a pool of the thief's vomit. Also abandoned at the scene was a pile of pound coins which John believes may have been stolen from a vending machine earlier in the night. John and May donated the abandoned pound coins to Oxfam. John said: 'We hope this thief will give up robbing visitors and tourists seeking a peaceful and pleasant holiday after what happened to him.' Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Followup 82 mercedes 300td HELP!
List members, I wanted to take a minute of your time to thank the list collectively for the kind offers of assistance which numbered over a dozen. Most all of the advice was very useful. With that being said, I have learned something valuable that I feel the need to pass on to those current and future list members who may be buying 80's model mercedes cars. The car I bought has a problem where the inside of fuel tank is flaking off small metal fragments. A local owned, private Mercedes shop [mechanic named Dietmar- go figure!] said this condition occurs when an older benz has been sitting up for a year plus. Dietmar highly suggested the replacement of the old tank. 300TD models have a special fuel tank that can only be bought through a mercedes dealership. $550 ea! no aftermarket fuel tanks for the wagons! Dietmar said the 300D's are easy to get new fuel tanks for however. My suggestion for future benz buyers is this, buy the old cars, but only if they have been driven daily and you are 100% sure that the car has not been sitting for months on end. --- the car also had a serious mold problem in the same fuel tank/ system. Thanks, Michael - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Least Costly Cars To Own.... according to one study's methodology
That's the total cost of ownership for 5 years - car, fuel, insurance, etc. Martin, Yah, well nothing should surprise you when you compare the prices in that list vs MSRP. $33 - $34 thousand for a Golf? Try $18,275 - $19,300 for a 2004, GL, TDI, 1.9 liter, Turbodiesel. I guess if they can escalate the value by 80% for their little list, they can manipulate anything else they like. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Least Costly Cars To Own according to one study's methodology murdoch wrote: According to this study's methodology, fuel efficiency is important, though obviously not the only factor. The top 5 cars include an assortment of approaches, including the Hybrid Prius, the Non-Hybrid Civic and the VW TDI. http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/18/pf/autos/efficient_cost_to_own/ I figured out the total cost [with their numbers] for 5 years. Cost to own includes insurance, fuel costs, maintenance and repairs and other costs + purchase price. I am puzzled by the fact that the Chevy Cavalier is not included, with a $10k base price and 47MPG highway. It gets better mileage than a Civic and costs less. Cost Make Model $28081 Toyota ECHO $28259 Honda Civic $29552 Scion xA $29768 Toyota Corolla $30985 Dodge Neon $31351 Scion xB $32466 Toyota Matrix $33301 Volkswagen Golf $33366 Volkswagen New Beetle $34504 Volkswagen Jetta $35195 Honda Civic Hybrid $35873 Honda Insight $36400 Pontiac Vibe $36641 Toyota Prius $37680 Toyota Celica Table for fuel costs [est. 5 year] fuel Make Model $2,406 Honda Insight $2,896 Toyota Prius $3,112 Volkswagen Golf $3,112 Volkswagen Jetta $3,112 Volkswagen New Beetle $3,122 Honda Civic Hybrid $3,746 Honda Civic $3,849 Toyota ECHO $4,156 Toyota Corolla $4,412 Scion xA $4,608 Pontiac Vibe $4,608 Toyota Matrix $4,810 Scion xB $4,995 Dodge Neon $4,995 Toyota Celica -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Least Costly Cars To Own.... according to one study's methodology
I'm sorry that was a typo, I intended to write '37' 47 would be better though :) Martin, Is this a diesel or something else - a non-USA model? The cavalier, according to yahoo autos, achieves 27-37 mpg. http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/chevrolet_cavalier_2005/3916/model_overview.h tml -Original Message- From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:42 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Least Costly Cars To Own according to one study's methodology murdoch wrote: According to this study's methodology, fuel efficiency is important, though obviously not the only factor. The top 5 cars include an assortment of approaches, including the Hybrid Prius, the Non-Hybrid Civic and the VW TDI. http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/18/pf/autos/efficient_cost_to_own/ I figured out the total cost [with their numbers] for 5 years. Cost to own includes insurance, fuel costs, maintenance and repairs and other costs + purchase price. I am puzzled by the fact that the Chevy Cavalier is not included, with a $10k base price and 47MPG highway. It gets better mileage than a Civic and costs less. Cost MakeModel $28081Toyota ECHO $28259Honda Civic $29552Scion xA $29768Toyota Corolla $30985Dodge Neon $31351Scion xB $32466Toyota Matrix $33301Volkswagen Golf $33366Volkswagen New Beetle $34504Volkswagen Jetta $35195Honda Civic Hybrid $35873Honda Insight $36400Pontiac Vibe $36641Toyota Prius $37680Toyota Celica Table for fuel costs [est. 5 year] fuel MakeModel $2,406Honda Insight $2,896Toyota Prius $3,112Volkswagen Golf $3,112Volkswagen Jetta $3,112Volkswagen New Beetle $3,122Honda Civic Hybrid $3,746Honda Civic $3,849Toyota ECHO $4,156Toyota Corolla $4,412Scion xA $4,608Pontiac Vibe $4,608Toyota Matrix $4,810Scion xB $4,995Dodge Neon $4,995Toyota Celica -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Least Costly Cars To Own.... according to one study's methodology
Martin, So they're trying to tell me that I'm going to drop $14,000 in fuel and insurance over 5 years on a VW Golf? Presume $1,200 insurance annually. Presume 1,000 miles monthly at $2.00/gallon and 48 mpg. The math doesn't add up. Especially when this list must have been calculated some weeks ago when fuel was 25% less costly than at present. Even including 3.9% interest there's still a $3,500 over estimation. Conservatives using liberal numbers? Or is it liberals using conservative numbers to their favor? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Least Costly Cars To Own according to one study's methodology That's the total cost of ownership for 5 years - car, fuel, insurance, etc. Martin, Yah, well nothing should surprise you when you compare the prices in that list vs MSRP. $33 - $34 thousand for a Golf? Try $18,275 - $19,300 for a 2004, GL, TDI, 1.9 liter, Turbodiesel. I guess if they can escalate the value by 80% for their little list, they can manipulate anything else they like. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Least Costly Cars To Own according to one study's methodology murdoch wrote: According to this study's methodology, fuel efficiency is important, though obviously not the only factor. The top 5 cars include an assortment of approaches, including the Hybrid Prius, the Non-Hybrid Civic and the VW TDI. http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/18/pf/autos/efficient_cost_to_own/ I figured out the total cost [with their numbers] for 5 years. Cost to own includes insurance, fuel costs, maintenance and repairs and other costs + purchase price. I am puzzled by the fact that the Chevy Cavalier is not included, with a $10k base price and 47MPG highway. It gets better mileage than a Civic and costs less. Cost Make Model $28081 Toyota ECHO $28259 Honda Civic $29552 Scion xA $29768 Toyota Corolla $30985 Dodge Neon $31351 Scion xB $32466 Toyota Matrix $33301 Volkswagen Golf $33366 Volkswagen New Beetle $34504 Volkswagen Jetta $35195 Honda Civic Hybrid $35873 Honda Insight $36400 Pontiac Vibe $36641 Toyota Prius $37680 Toyota Celica Table for fuel costs [est. 5 year] fuel Make Model $2,406 Honda Insight $2,896 Toyota Prius $3,112 Volkswagen Golf $3,112 Volkswagen Jetta $3,112 Volkswagen New Beetle $3,122 Honda Civic Hybrid $3,746 Honda Civic $3,849 Toyota ECHO $4,156 Toyota Corolla $4,412 Scion xA $4,608 Pontiac Vibe $4,608 Toyota Matrix $4,810 Scion xB $4,995 Dodge Neon $4,995 Toyota Celica -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: college student lookin for help
Hi I Iive near Purdue also.We were hoping to get enough people in the area interested to have a demo or class.There was also a gent down near Indy who was also keen on a class.I had e mailed girl mark about possibly coming out but I haven't heard back yet. Is there anyone else out there in the Chicago N/W Indiana area looking for a get together? Rico Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is anyone in this group in Indiana, USA? im starting to make my own fuel, but im having trouble and was wondering if anyone was close enough to talk to and show me how they do this? im a student @ Purdue and have a few ideas i'd like to try and discuss Beth ps-any feedback at all would be nice If you say what trouble you're having and what your ideas are I'm sure you'll get feedback. Please note, also, that a lot of people, probably most, have learnt how to make their own fuel without ever seeing another operation or being shown anything. Many have been helped to do that right here by other list members, and using the resources at Journey to Forever and in the list archives via the links at the end of each message. Best wishes Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Anyone on this group live in Oklahoma? what sh*t
Hi,I may be coming in on this a little late so please bear with me. I work for a large restaurant chain.Six years ago they used to pay us for our waste oil.It wasn't much but they did.Then the market changed and ever since then we've had to pay for the oil and grease to be taken away...till now.The market is starting to change again.I don't know what drives this change but I do know that by the end of the year we will be getting paid for our waste oil again. Rico Lyle Estill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Restaurants in North Carolina are getting about a penny a pound for their wvo, or around 5.00 for a 55 gallon drum. On May 19, 2004, at 3:22 PM, CH wrote: I agree! That bit about the restaurants planning on selling their grease to a recycling company is the most bogus part of the article. Does anyone know of restaurants who actually sell their waste veg oil to a renderer? Chris billy truman wrote: resturants don't sell the used oil, the pay to have it taken away. So ? --- erichalltoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The restaurants were planning to sell the grease to a recycling company and the total value of the stolen goods was about $380. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Lyle Estill CEO Blast Internet Services www.blast.com (919) 545-2551 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Received a message from biofuel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com biofuel-unsubscribe
There is another way: just run Linux! I have yet to have a virus problem, I do not even run a virus checker! regards Doug (A die-hard Linux user of 3 years+) On Fri, 21 May 2004 09:45 am, malcolm maclure wrote: Unfortunately folks, no matter what Microsoft or any third party s/w company produce to counter this situation, it will be hacked in a very short time. A similar situation exists for online gamers, a world dogged by a minority of people who cheat using hacks to give them an unfair advantage over honest just wanna have fun players. Many anti-cheat software systems have been developed to counter the problem but all are hacked within days of release and are rendered useless. There is a new anticheat being released shortly, written by a very clever programmer, it could be a big breakthrough in the gaming world, if it works. The problem is there are very clever hackers who just love the challenge of cracking a new system - what a waste of amazing talent intellect. If only these people could direct their energies to contribute rather than abuse. The best advice would be: Keep your Windows system updated Run antivirus software, regularly updated Run a firewall, regularly updated - Best of all - get a router with a built-in hardware firewall Run anti-adware software so you're not broadcasting your IP or e-mail addresses None of these will truly protect you from the most determined hacker, but the harder you make it the more likely they will move on to an easier target. If anyone needs any advice with any of the above, I'd be glad to lend a hand, just mail me. Between myself, my stepson his co-workers we have quite a wealth of knowledge on internet security programming (one co-worker has written system control software for Powergen, the QE2 etc) Cheers Malcolm Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 May 2004 20:04 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Received a message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] biofuel-unsubscribe I received a message from that email address. The email contains an attachment. Being the suspicious type, I expect it's an attempt to infect me with a virus, since I have not yet unsubscribed from this list. Anyone else seen such emails? Bryan False sender's address, can't be helped. Certainly a virus. We've had quite a few viruses purporting to come from Yahoo. We've even had viruses purporting to come from Journey to Forever, even from us personally, doing things like warning us that our email service is going to be closed down, please see the attachment (not!). It's happening to everyone, including a lot of the big environment groups, NGOs, businesses, all sorts of people. Keep your system properly patched and protected, keep your virus gear up to date, be a suspicious type. You can't get a virus via the group, by the way, it just can't happen. But you can get a virus from a false address pretending to be from the group, though you should be able to see the difference, as you did with this. Dear old Micro$oft, what a disaster. Yes, sure, if you keep it all squeaky-clean then there's no problem, right. Maybe it's even true, but during the most recent virus onslaught something like 70 million Windoze computers were infected and spewing out viruses and spam, the owners all cheerfully unaware. A security survey of a million computers in businesses in the US found an *average* infection rate of 28 viruses and worms per machine. It won't get better until M$ wakes up to the idea that maybe a secure OS might be something to think about. Holding your breath is contraindicated. Dumbo system administrators who set up protection systems that automatically send the damned things *back* to where they almost certainly didn't come from don't exactly help, but it seems to be their default mode. :-( Keith [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
[biofuel] Sources of Methanol and Sodum Hydroxide in the UK
Hi list, I've been wondring about Bio Diesel for a while now, since the fuel prices went up again it's finally time to take the plunge. One, ok two, questions. Sodium Hydroxide is more commonly known as Caustic Soda in the UK, is this right? Does anyone know of a good source for Methanol in the UK. Small quantities will do for now as I'm just planning on doing test batches to start, one or two litres only till I get the hang of it. Many thanks, SB. _ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Making bio on the cheap
Nice story Kitch, good on ya, good luck with everything. Malcolm UK -Original Message- From: mkitchin6548 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 May 2004 16:13 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Making bio on the cheap Hello all, Thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. Been making our own fuel for about a year and a half. Here's our story. I made my own processor out of a 55 ga metal drum. (People will GIVE these to you or you can buy them cheaply) Used the removable lid as the botton and cut out half of the old bottom to be the new top. Welded up a stand out of 2x2 angle and made a small lean towards the drain I installed in the bottom. I also welded in a piece I got at the local home center that allows me to screw in a 110volt H2O heater element. I make 40 gallonas at a time. I mix the Red devil lye in the meth in 5 gallon buckets and just pour it in. STIR OUT IN THE OPEN or wear a good resperator. I mix the batches up using a 1/3 HP sump pump that I just lower down in the soup. After mixing, I pull it out and set it on top of the uncut old bottom that is now the top. Then it drains right back into the mix. GETTING OIL: I have made contacts with some small restaurants. Some call mke and I pick up the 35lb containers from them and I have left 55 gal drums with some of the others. I bought a Honda 4 hp engine with a 1:6 reduction gear and it drives a gear pump. All mounted on a angle steel frame. (Ther IS no life without a mig welder) I bought some gas station hose at Grainger. So, when my people with the 55 galopon drums call, I just run over in the most beat-up discusting diesel vanagon with a barrel in it and pump the good stuff from their drum to mine. RAW OIL: I get cruddy soil oil and cruddy Canola oils. They both make great fuel, but titrate out VERY differently, so I save each until I have 40 gallons then either make a Canola batch or a soy batch. The soy fuel is light gold in color, the Canola fuel turns out darker. TEST BATCHES: I tried the blender method and found it to ba a BIG pain in the ass, so I use the diet coke method. I do my titration and then add a litre of raw to the diet coke bottle followed by 22 ml of metanol with the appropriate amount of lye mixed in. Shake well (put the cap back on first...) Let it set a few hours. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS make test batches! Best to screw up a litre versus 40 gallons!! FILTERS: I looked at the cost of the diesel fuel filters and about chocked!! So, I use water sedimant filters that fit in this neato $19 plastic container with inlet and outlet ports on it. The filters last a long time and get EVERYTHING out of the finished fuel. They cost about 2-3 a piece and I find a LOT of them sat yard sales. I use a tallow pump which is a gear drive pump for emptying fryers. (perfect) It is 110 volt and I use it to move the fuel to storasge containers etc. I use metal 5 gallojn fuel cans to fill the Wittle Wellow Wabbit and the discusting Vanagon, a 99 Golf and a soon to be ready to go to the beach diesel Vanagon Westy. I was priviledged to be asked to do a presentation at the Sol Fest here in Scottsdale last April. Giving up a nice Real Estste career to go back to school to get my teaching certificate. REALLY want to end up teaching alt energy and environmental issues to kids.. So if you have not ytried making any bio yet, GET TO IT!! Don't wait for the Government to fix the energy problem with their tax incentives etc. This is OUR country and WE have to save it. I feel the whole energy thing is a major crisis. RIDE YOR BIKE everywhere you can and then drive your bio car when you NEED it.You run into a nice class of people on the bike lanes PEACE, Kitch in Az Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=129m7pcki/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1085160309/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/c ompanion.yahoo.com click here http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=group s/S=:HM/A=2128215/rand=551434155 _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM
Re: [biofuel] Followup 82 mercedes 300td HELP! (DOUBLE THANKS)
Thanks for that bit of info. I am planning to buy two Mercedes 300D's. Specifically, a '79 300CD and an '81 300SD. I'll keep that in mind and most definetly use it as a bargaining tool. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:List members, I wanted to take a minute of your time to thank the list collectively for the kind offers of assistance which numbered over a dozen. Most all of the advice was very useful. With that being said, I have learned something valuable that I feel the need to pass on to those current and future list members who may be buying 80's model mercedes cars. The car I bought has a problem where the inside of fuel tank is flaking off small metal fragments. A local owned, private Mercedes shop [mechanic named Dietmar- go figure!] said this condition occurs when an older benz has been sitting up for a year plus. Dietmar highly suggested the replacement of the old tank. 300TD models have a special fuel tank that can only be bought through a mercedes dealership. $550 ea! no aftermarket fuel tanks for the wagons! Dietmar said the 300D's are easy to get new fuel tanks for however. My suggestion for future benz buyers is this, buy the old cars, but only if they have been driven daily and you are 100% sure that the car has not been sitting for months on end. --- the car also had a serious mold problem in the same fuel tank/ system. Thanks, Michael - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Phenolphthalein
OK, here's the thing. I can get it in all it's wonderful forms, but that doesn't help me as I don't know which one will work for titration, so that is where the wonderfully helpful people here will steer me right,please. It comes as: 1)Reagent powder 2).5% alcohol solution 3)1% alcohol solution The question is: which one? I want to measure it up to the PH meter as I think that that may be the weak link in my titration. Thoughts? Guidance? Ideas? Many thanks or TA! (as the Aussies/Brits say) Luc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] It has happened twice now.
Hi Luc What is the concentration of your potassium hydroxide? I think from your figures below that you're presuming 100% concentration, same as NaOH (or nearly), but KOH is less concentrated and you have to allow for that. I don't have much faith in your figure of basic 4.9 potasium, it should be more, according to the concentration. Are you titrating with a KOH solution or a NaOH solution and then converting the results to KOH? More about lye http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye KOH is not as strong as NaOH -- use 1.4 times as much KOH (actually 1.4025 times). Titration is the same, just use a 0.1% KOH solution instead of NaOH solution, and use 1 gm of KOH for every milliliter of 0.1% solution used in the titration. But instead of the basic 3.5 grams of NaOH lye per liter of oil, use 3.5 x 1.4 = 4.9 grams of KOH. So, if your titration was 5 ml, use 5 + 4.9 = 9.9 gm KOH per liter of oil. One more complication -- check the purity of your KOH, it's generally not as pure as NaOH. Anhydrous grade KOH flake is usually about 92%, sometimes less -- check the label. We use half-pearls assayed at 85%. Adjust the basic quantity accordingly: the basic 4.9 grams would be 5.8 (5.775) grams for 85% KOH, or 5.3 (5.33) grams for 92% KOH. KOH dissolves in methanol much more easily than NaOH does, and doesn't clump together as NaOH can do. Do a comparison with sodium, and I'd also suggest the poor man's titration that Todd outlined for Pierre a few weeks ago. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/33676/ Instead of using jars, do a blender batch for each sample, same as you're doing now. That will mean agitation, temperature etc are just the same, with the KOH amount the only variable. You're more interested in tests using more KOH than less. Best Keith I successfully made one batch using WVO but that required a double processing and came away matching all the numbers I have read about, BUT twice now I have doen the folowing and with nearly the same results. Could someone please point out the flaw ? WVO = 500ml heated to 130F. Using the Better Titration method I titrate it using a PH meter to be 1gr extra (4ml%4=1). then I add that to the basic 4.9 potasium Hydroxide for 5.9gr and then divide by two (for the 500ml batch) The methoxide is very well mixed and I add it to the blender oil (still at 130F) slowly and let it blend for 15-18 minutes. After settling I get a distinct seperation of very dark, almost black on the bottom and a redish dark top layer (the BD) but as soon as I put it to the shake test (150ml unwashed BD to 150ml water at room temp) I get mayonaise that won't completely break even after two days. I got to be doing something wrong here. I am going to try one more time using sodiuk instead of potassium and see if I get the same results and then I will have to start questioning the PH meter and the source of WVO, not to mention my ability to understand a laid out process. Should I dump the PH meter and go with strips ? Maybe use the other liquid penolphalene (or something like that) that makes it go magenta for 10 seconds when it reaches 8.5 PH? My scale is top shelf electronic. The chems are fresh from the chem supply house, the oil was still warm when I sampled it :) I am using 100% isopropyl (I now have LOTS of it,4.5lt)I mix in the oil while the jar is sitting in warm water and it never really does get 100% clear but I keep on stirring it throughout the titration process aas I add the .01% lye solution (made according to the Better Titration specs) I am now thoughroughly stumped as to what I did wrong. Luc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Trying to get a plant in this area
I am in a North Central Missouri farming community that is on a main highway and railroad. We have formed a committee to look into the idea of getting a biodiesel plant located here. If anyone could give me information as to what we need to do to get this going, please let me know. Thank You, Shelly Searcy Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Received a message from biofuel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com biofuel-unsubscribe
malcolm maclure wrote: The best advice would be: Keep your Windows system updated No, the best advice would be: Don't run windows. If you do run windows, don't use Outlook or Internet Explorer. Use Mozilla, or Firebird and Thunderbird instead. They are free and more standards compliant. And, as Malcolm said, buy a hardware firewall. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Received a message from biofuel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com biofuel-unsubscribe
And another way - get a Mac! There is another way: just run Linux! I have yet to have a virus problem, I do not even run a virus checker! Same. regards Doug (A die-hard Linux user of 3 years+) So what it does indeed come down to is dear old M$. Best Keith On Fri, 21 May 2004 09:45 am, malcolm maclure wrote: Unfortunately folks, no matter what Microsoft or any third party s/w company produce to counter this situation, it will be hacked in a very short time. A similar situation exists for online gamers, a world dogged by a minority of people who cheat using hacks to give them an unfair advantage over honest just wanna have fun players. Many anti-cheat software systems have been developed to counter the problem but all are hacked within days of release and are rendered useless. There is a new anticheat being released shortly, written by a very clever programmer, it could be a big breakthrough in the gaming world, if it works. The problem is there are very clever hackers who just love the challenge of cracking a new system - what a waste of amazing talent intellect. If only these people could direct their energies to contribute rather than abuse. The best advice would be: Keep your Windows system updated Run antivirus software, regularly updated Run a firewall, regularly updated - Best of all - get a router with a built-in hardware firewall Run anti-adware software so you're not broadcasting your IP or e-mail addresses None of these will truly protect you from the most determined hacker, but the harder you make it the more likely they will move on to an easier target. If anyone needs any advice with any of the above, I'd be glad to lend a hand, just mail me. Between myself, my stepson his co-workers we have quite a wealth of knowledge on internet security programming (one co-worker has written system control software for Powergen, the QE2 etc) Cheers Malcolm Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 May 2004 20:04 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Received a message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] biofuel-unsubscribe I received a message from that email address. The email contains an attachment. Being the suspicious type, I expect it's an attempt to infect me with a virus, since I have not yet unsubscribed from this list. Anyone else seen such emails? Bryan False sender's address, can't be helped. Certainly a virus. We've had quite a few viruses purporting to come from Yahoo. We've even had viruses purporting to come from Journey to Forever, even from us personally, doing things like warning us that our email service is going to be closed down, please see the attachment (not!). It's happening to everyone, including a lot of the big environment groups, NGOs, businesses, all sorts of people. Keep your system properly patched and protected, keep your virus gear up to date, be a suspicious type. You can't get a virus via the group, by the way, it just can't happen. But you can get a virus from a false address pretending to be from the group, though you should be able to see the difference, as you did with this. Dear old Micro$oft, what a disaster. Yes, sure, if you keep it all squeaky-clean then there's no problem, right. Maybe it's even true, but during the most recent virus onslaught something like 70 million Windoze computers were infected and spewing out viruses and spam, the owners all cheerfully unaware. A security survey of a million computers in businesses in the US found an *average* infection rate of 28 viruses and worms per machine. It won't get better until M$ wakes up to the idea that maybe a secure OS might be something to think about. Holding your breath is contraindicated. Dumbo system administrators who set up protection systems that automatically send the damned things *back* to where they almost certainly didn't come from don't exactly help, but it seems to be their default mode. :-( Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Phenolphthalein
OK, here's the thing. I can get it in all it's wonderful forms, but that doesn't help me as I don't know which one will work for titration, so that is where the wonderfully helpful people here will steer me right,please. It comes as: 1)Reagent powder 2).5% alcohol solution 3)1% alcohol solution The question is: which one? I want to measure it up to the PH meter as I think that that may be the weak link in my titration. Thoughts? Guidance? Ideas? Many thanks or TA! (as the Aussies/Brits say) Luc Previous message: - Original Message - From: biobenz The chem supply house I am dealing with offers the Phenolphthalein in a pre-mixed alcohol solution at 1%. Would this work as well or better than the do-it-yourself method ? Biobenz, If you are unable to get 95% ethanol or don't want to go to the trouble of making up the phenolphthalein solution yourself, the premixed solution would be a great idea. It would also be neutralalised in manufacture. Would indeed work just as well as or better. Regards Paul Gobert. 1% Phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%) Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] processor from cone shaped plastic tank?
I'm bringing myself out of lurk to waggle a small stick at folks and ask for clarification... What other problems *specifically* make folks not like the cone-bottom HDPE barrels? (ie, 'they suck' is inept. (and that's the waggly-stick part of the post.)' they suck because you can't drain the bottom 5 inches' is more helpful. Solutions like 'use the pump to get those last five inches' are even more appreciated.) First, a little background. I belong to a co-op, but am going to try to make my own biodiesel, hopefully in the next week or two. I run a large truck and a small jetta so far and can go through a 55 gallon drum in a week, maybe less. I can get oil, no problem. With my biochemistry background (fairly distant and more cellularly focused, but still) I can handle the protocol. I've chosen the acid-base/two-step/foolproof method as the most interesting. I'm just not as proficient with thinking through the mechanical aspects of setting up the processor. I know folks here despise the HDPE cone-shaped plastic tank setups as 'imperfect' or 'pieces of crap' and I understand that emotion may be because some folks install high-powered heaters through their side (causing the sides to sometimes melt out at the heater insertion point?) or because some folks *don't* put heaters in them which isn't as useful or because some folks are using them to reap cash from possibly-unsuspecting newbies. I'm hoping we can let go of those reasons to answer the two main questions in this post. I've been to the websites and looked at all the processors. Like TJ, I like the *look* of the cone-bottomed HDPE models. I'm going to have to live with it in plain and obvious view in my backyard for some time - and in my front/side yard until I can clear space in the back. People will come over for dinner and see it sitting in my beautifully rampant garden. It's gotta look nice, period. (I think I have enough 'hidden' yard space to do the standpipe drum washer, but not the whole processor.) I am willing to spend a certain amount of money to get to a completed processor (say, $750 or so.) Unfortunately not quite enough to have an elegant stainless model made. (small grin) So, I'm back to the HDPE cone-bottom'd barrels again. Is there any reason that a 'belted' tank warmer made specifically for plastic barrels wouldn't work for heating the HDPE cone-bottom'd reaction vessel? (wrapped in the silver-foiled bubble wrap to help keep the heat) (www.grainger.com) (item number 4vt65 heats to 150 degrees) Yes, the heater-belt is expensive and not as scrounger-cool as making one from used stove parts... but does anyone see any reason it would not otherwise work and more safely than the insertion heaters? Are there any other issues with the HDPE cone-bottom'd vessels besides heating the reaction, the complete lack of scrounger-coolness and cost? Thanks! HeidiWD To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but also treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt, 1918 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Phenolphthalein Thanks Keith
OH crap ! I must be getting old. I already asked that one and got an answer. My appologies. Now if I can only retain what I get answers to I'll be doing well (and stop wasting poeple's time with repeats). Thanks again. Luc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Straight WVO
HI, I've just bought an '83 Mercedes 300TD (5 cyl 3L turbo wagon) for the sole purpose of alternative fuel experimentation (well, maybe also to get me to work while I'm restoring my '68 Ford Ranchero GT) I plan on eventually setting up for full Biodiesel production (I like the water heater conversion), but first I want to set up a two tank, straight WVO system. I have spent days going trough the archives, and numerous web-sites, but am still not clear about a few things: 1) What exactly do I need to do to the WVO before putting it my new heated second tank. What if some dino or bio gets mixed in? 2) Chemically thinning WVO...at least for use in the warm months, which is most of them here in North Carolina. 3) Combustion chamber carbon remover (RxP?)...one of my cylinders has lower compression (240 vs. 310), mechanic said valves were very tight, might be carbon on valve seats. (I think I still got a bargain for $860 on eBay) 4) source for six port solenoid or manual valve. (tank switch) 5) schematic for variable time delay shut down solenoid controller. This is for an unsupervised clean fuel shut-down burn. (another use might be foranti- carjacking...you set it to shut down in a minute... the thief gets a mile down the road... I would especially like to hear from those with MB 5 cyl IDI turbos. I am considering cutting the back off, and turning it into a pick-up, this is what Ford did to there station wagons to create the Ranchero. I wanted to post a picture of what this might look like, but I guess there is no member access to photo posting. (hint...hint) I think an MB pick-up would rate a walnut gun rack in the back window. I'm not sure what this means yet, but I got a gas analysis with my state inspection (although not required)...kind of a before and after thing. HC = 53ppm CO2= 3.1% CO = 0.08% This is with Texaco 40 cetane purchased in Maryland, USA ($1.799) I'm sorry if I'm requesting info that has been recently posted, but my search for straight WVO did not give me satisfaction...let me know if there is a more productive search title. Richard U ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. -Thomas Jefferson Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Received a message from biofuel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com biofuel-unsubscribe
Doug; Of course it is not lost that the fact that you haven't run a virus checker leaves you in the absolute dark as to whether or not your PC is loaded with spyware/adware ect... How do you know? You could be the trap door to the mountains of spam that get sent via infected machines every day. The only reason we hear more about MS getting hit by hackers so much is because that's what the majority of the world is using. Linux or Mac are NOT immune to infection and should they become more popular they too would see the happy litte bugs showinig up in droves looking for a home.This not to say that they have not been targeted in the past, as they have, sucessfully, so to say that this OS or that is better and immune is a false sense of security that could end up costing you big time should one of these little mignons decide that seeing as how Linux and Mac users are so not looking for an attack that that just might be fun to hit next. The better solution is to invest the money the hackers have forced you to dish out and get GOOD anti-virus/anti-hacking software as well as spyware and adware removal software and be happy that you did it BEFORE you lost your hard drive to some helpful hacker. Personally I run Norton's Internet Security combined with Spybot Search and Destroy for spyware and Ad-Aware by Lavasoft for the adware and although many many attempts have been made at gaining access to my Windows XP equiped machine none have yet suceeded in so doing, thank God, although NO system is 100% ironclad shut to hacking we owe it to ourselves to make the job as difficult as possible and then the hackathons will simply find an easier target, such as one who isn't expecting them, like say, a Linux or Mac user who thinks he/she is impervious to them. The fact is, if you DO NOT run anti-virus checks then HOW do you know you aren't infected? Answer: you don't. Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And another way - get a Mac! There is another way: just run Linux! I have yet to have a virus problem, I do not even run a virus checker! Same. regards Doug (A die-hard Linux user of 3 years+) So what it does indeed come down to is dear old M$. Best Keith On Fri, 21 May 2004 09:45 am, malcolm maclure wrote: Unfortunately folks, no matter what Microsoft or any third party s/w company produce to counter this situation, it will be hacked in a very short time. A similar situation exists for online gamers, a world dogged by a minority of people who cheat using hacks to give them an unfair advantage over honest just wanna have fun players. Many anti-cheat software systems have been developed to counter the problem but all are hacked within days of release and are rendered useless. There is a new anticheat being released shortly, written by a very clever programmer, it could be a big breakthrough in the gaming world, if it works. The problem is there are very clever hackers who just love the challenge of cracking a new system - what a waste of amazing talent intellect. If only these people could direct their energies to contribute rather than abuse. The best advice would be: Keep your Windows system updated Run antivirus software, regularly updated Run a firewall, regularly updated - Best of all - get a router with a built-in hardware firewall Run anti-adware software so you're not broadcasting your IP or e-mail addresses None of these will truly protect you from the most determined hacker, but the harder you make it the more likely they will move on to an easier target. If anyone needs any advice with any of the above, I'd be glad to lend a hand, just mail me. Between myself, my stepson his co- workers we have quite a wealth of knowledge on internet security programming (one co-worker has written system control software for Powergen, the QE2 etc) Cheers Malcolm Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 May 2004 20:04 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Received a message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] biofuel-unsubscribe I received a message from that email address. The email contains an attachment. Being the suspicious type, I expect it's an attempt to infect me with a virus, since I have not yet unsubscribed from this list. Anyone else seen such emails? Bryan False sender's address, can't be helped. Certainly a virus. We've had quite a few viruses purporting to come from Yahoo. We've even had viruses purporting to come from Journey to Forever, even from us personally, doing things like warning us that our email service is going to be closed down, please see the attachment (not!). It's happening to everyone, including a lot of the big environment groups, NGOs,
[biofuel] Re: It has happened twice now. Keith
That's just it. The concentration isn't marked on the container.All it says is technical which is about as helpful as guess to me. Sooo, I have re-done the thing using NaOH and will shall see what is what soon. The process is I warm up the oil in a sauce pan with a thermometer in it until it reaches 130F or so and then add it to the blender and slowly add the methoxide (prepared in my Grolsch bottle- methoxide the easy way) :) Blend the lot for 15-18 minutes, pout into a Masson jar and let it settle. I get clear seperation of darker glycerine on the bottom, the lighter (but still dark) on top. I take a sample of this top layer and add water and shake and I get MAYO freekin' NAISE ! about 1/3 of it.My tests are done using 500ml instead of full liters and I just divide everything by 2. I am in the process of revamping my method, going to try some of that nice 1% phenolphthalein solution stuff instead of the PH meter and see if I get a discrepancy. I now have laboratory grade cylendars graded to acuracy for small alcohol stuff (100ml) and a larger one (1 liter/1,000ml) for the other stuff, like WVO. A least I know the volumes are OK :) My scale is OHAUS electronic 0.1gr- 400gr in 0.1 increments so it's not the scale either. Eliminating the variables is important for me 'cause I am not the sharpest tool in the shed :) So, I should be undergoing some adjustments very soon, and hopefully will get the testing stuff down before it's time to start loading the real product into the processor. I am getting some valuable help though and that is very much appreciated. Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Luc What is the concentration of your potassium hydroxide? I think from your figures below that you're presuming 100% concentration, same as NaOH (or nearly), but KOH is less concentrated and you have to allow for that. I don't have much faith in your figure of basic 4.9 potasium, it should be more, according to the concentration. Are you titrating with a KOH solution or a NaOH solution and then converting the results to KOH? More about lye http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye KOH is not as strong as NaOH -- use 1.4 times as much KOH (actually 1.4025 times). Titration is the same, just use a 0.1% KOH solution instead of NaOH solution, and use 1 gm of KOH for every milliliter of 0.1% solution used in the titration. But instead of the basic 3.5 grams of NaOH lye per liter of oil, use 3.5 x 1.4 = 4.9 grams of KOH. So, if your titration was 5 ml, use 5 + 4.9 = 9.9 gm KOH per liter of oil. One more complication -- check the purity of your KOH, it's generally not as pure as NaOH. Anhydrous grade KOH flake is usually about 92%, sometimes less -- check the label. We use half-pearls assayed at 85%. Adjust the basic quantity accordingly: the basic 4.9 grams would be 5.8 (5.775) grams for 85% KOH, or 5.3 (5.33) grams for 92% KOH. KOH dissolves in methanol much more easily than NaOH does, and doesn't clump together as NaOH can do. Do a comparison with sodium, and I'd also suggest the poor man's titration that Todd outlined for Pierre a few weeks ago. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/33676/ Instead of using jars, do a blender batch for each sample, same as you're doing now. That will mean agitation, temperature etc are just the same, with the KOH amount the only variable. You're more interested in tests using more KOH than less. Best Keith I successfully made one batch using WVO but that required a double processing and came away matching all the numbers I have read about, BUT twice now I have doen the folowing and with nearly the same results. Could someone please point out the flaw ? WVO = 500ml heated to 130F. Using the Better Titration method I titrate it using a PH meter to be 1gr extra (4ml%4=1). then I add that to the basic 4.9 potasium Hydroxide for 5.9gr and then divide by two (for the 500ml batch) The methoxide is very well mixed and I add it to the blender oil (still at 130F) slowly and let it blend for 15-18 minutes. After settling I get a distinct seperation of very dark, almost black on the bottom and a redish dark top layer (the BD) but as soon as I put it to the shake test (150ml unwashed BD to 150ml water at room temp) I get mayonaise that won't completely break even after two days. I got to be doing something wrong here. I am going to try one more time using sodiuk instead of potassium and see if I get the same results and then I will have to start questioning the PH meter and the source of WVO, not to mention my ability to understand a laid out process. Should I dump the PH meter and go with strips ? Maybe use the other liquid penolphalene (or something like that) that makes it go magenta for 10 seconds when it reaches 8.5 PH? My scale is top shelf electronic. The chems are fresh from the chem supply house, the oil was
[biofuel] Re: First time collecting used oil and have questions.
If you are looking for a pump you can run on a drill, I have successfully used a Ford 351W oil pump with a cordless drill. The hex shaft of the oil pump chucks right up in the drill. My 12V NiCD battery lasted about 20 gallons. I also wired in connectors to the cordless battery so I can hook it to my truck battery, and pump many more gallons. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fwd from the [Biodiesel] list. Does anyone use one of these nifty drill pumps? Connect it to an electric drill (wonder if a cordless drill would be strong enough) and this might making collecting oil from their bucket to my bucket easier. Is only $15 plus a $3 coupler. Looks like a nice idea. http://www2.northerntool.com/product/11948/ Let me know if you have used something like this and if so, did you use a cordless drill and did it work OK. tj Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] German Biodiesel
Great link, thanks Jens. I like the discussion of the recent standards. DIN EN 14214. On Fri, 21 May 2004 10:42:50 -, you wrote: This english brochure has lots of useful information about the status of biodiesel in Germany/Europe: http://www.ufop.de/download/FlowerPower.pdf Some comments: 1) Until early 2004, the confusion about whether diesel cars where allowed to use biodiesel or not occurred because biodiesel was not standardized. So, everyone could mix up something oily and sell it as biodiesel. This was a problem for producers of diesel injection pumps like Bosch because they didn't know with what they should test their pumps, for parameters like density, viscosity, water content, and many more. 2) Pictures of the Lupo TDI can be viewed at http://www.volkswagen.de/lupo/3ltdi.htm It can get up to 80mpg (some claim even better values) if you drive it with a VERY light foot on the gas pedal. Unfortunately, the trunk is so small that you have to fold down the rear seats if you want to carry anything bigger than a sheet of paper, effectively making it a 2-seater (my personal opinion, YMMV :-). 3) Diesel particulate and NOx emssions can be greatly reduced by particle filters and DeNOX catalysts. Most German carmakers will offer particle filter systems of various kinds (not Peugeot technology) from 2005 on. Toyota already sells a combined particle/NOx reduction system called D-CAT with some of their newer diesel models, like the Avensis (http://www.toyota.de/showroom/avensis_2003/index.html). Regards, Jens Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Grease kits...
I am about to buy a 1998 Dog Ram Cummings... and I am considering putting in a WVO kit in it. Any thoughts on running grease vs. biodiesel? I am looking at a two tank system by the greasel folks. Thanks. Matt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] looking for a biodiesel 4x4 station wagon
Anyone know a manufacturer that produces diesel 4x4 station wagons? I can't find one anywhere. Or how about a 4x4 diesel coupe? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Methanol supplier in Redmond/Seattle area
Does anyone know of methanol suppliers in the Redmond/Seattle area? Thanks. Derek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] re: weird gummy stuff
This was certainly not my first attempt. I have made many test batches, and we made test batches in my class the previous week. And yes this was our first attempt making a 5 gallon batch. When I mixed the methoxide before we did it in blenders, before adding our oil. Yes, we used grease from restaurants- used oil. I personally don't consider virgin oil to be grease. The problem I was having was how to mix larger quantities of methoxide. Not all of us can have a completely closed system immediately. We can do our best with what we have and what we can afford. That doesn't make us any less important. It seems to me that this community could use a bit more respect of those that have less experience. I have read Tickell and read much on Journey to forever. When someone has a question it honestly doesn't help much to refer me to websites- I have seen this already. I checked the very same sites before posting my question (i wouldn't waste bandwidth). It was something I hadn't seen before, either personally, on the list, or on the web. I don't think responding with condescension to those who are less experienced really helps any of us. I was hoping that the list could be a source for those of us who have only been doing this a few months to trouble shoot. What I got was a bit insulting, with all due respect. i haven't really had any of my questions answered. How is that helpful? Noam __ Hello Noam Keith, We did NOT end up with biodiesel. The consistancy is close to that of the original grease. I am unsure now what to do with the stuff. I think I didn't mix the lye/methanol enough and something reacted with the animal fat. What animal fat? Was this virgin oil or used oil? You say grease, but I'm never quite sure what Americans mean when they say grease. I'd assumed it was virgin oil, because it sounded like your first attempt. You did say you'd never seen the weird gummy stuff before, but it also seemed like you'd never mixed methoxide before. Though 5 gal is a bit much for a first attempt, 5 litres or even 1 would be better. If not virgin oil, how did you determine how much lye to use? Did you titrate the oil? Now I understand what you meant - I'd thought the gummy stuff appeared in the methoxide, which would have been a mystery, but it appeared after you added it to the oil. Yes, as Todd said, soap. What sort of processor did you use? How did you stir it? What temperature was it? How long did you agitate it for? How much methanol did you use? How much lye? I don't know. Reprocess the failed batch as if it were new oil. See: Biodiesel from new oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodnew Mix the methoxide as Todd suggests in his reply to you, as in the links I gave you previously: Methoxide the easy way http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth More here: Mixing the methoxide http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#methmix And more here: Adding the methoxide http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html#methadd If reprocessing doesn't work then you have heavily used WVO (used oil) with a high Free Fatty Acid level and you'll either have to learn how to titrate it for an accurate lye quantity, or, better for newcomers, abandon it and get better oil - and STILL learn how to titrate it for accurate lye quantities. You can find out all about that and much more at the link I gave you previously: Make your own biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Check the links Noam. I did the same experiment with my 6th period class and it seemed turn out alright. I mixed methoxide in a plastic bucket with a mixer and by hand. Use a closed container, see the links above and Todd's message. I was scared of static electricity making a spark though and igniting the whole thing. Is this a danger? Is the methanol less volatile once you add the lye? Nope. Do it the Easy way. thanks, Noam Gundle Best Keith Hello, I made a 5 gallon batch today, and had a few problems. I tried to mix the methanol/lye in blenders, and it didn't work. The seals of the blenders must be shot, because the methanol leaked out. So we mixed the methoxide by hand in a large beaker (all done in my fume hood). I added the lye in two batches, with half the methanol/lye in each. When I went to add the second batch, there was this weird gummy stuff floating on top. It looked like tofu curds, or congealed something. It was creamy brown and broke apart when I poked it. I hesitated to remove it because i worried about upsetting the balance of lye. I did take out one small piece to try to identify it. I have NEVER seen this before. Has anyone else? Any advice? Also, when I blended the methanol/lye, the container got very hot. I immediately stopped it because I was worried about explosions. It got hot when I mixed it by hand too. Is this normal? I would appreciate any help anyone feels like offering.
[biofuel] New to list questions?
Hello All, I've been interested in making Biodiesel for some time but just found the list. First question, Does anyone know of any BioDiesel coops in NY state. Preferrably north of NYC. Secondly I have read a lot online and have seen claims of people making Biodiesel for $.60/gal. Is that really possible? Has anyone ever tracked that? What would be a typical average per gallon? Also if there are any NYC people who would be interested in partnering to make some biodiesel, I have space and some $ for supplies but I'm not strong on the chemistry and am hesitant to do it alone. If you're interested please feel free to email me off list. Scott Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] looking for a biodiesel 4x4 station wagon
Can't you get the 4motion on a TDI Volkswagen Jetta wagon? Adam Monsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Anyone know a manufacturer that produces diesel 4x4 station wagons? I can't find one anywhere. Or how about a 4x4 diesel coupe? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sources of Methanol and Sodum Hydroxide in the UK
Try fisher sientific they are based in the west midland but i think they only supply to big companies or universities all the best mohamed --- Dave Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, I've been wondring about Bio Diesel for a while now, since the fuel prices went up again it's finally time to take the plunge. One, ok two, questions. Sodium Hydroxide is more commonly known as Caustic Soda in the UK, is this right? Does anyone know of a good source for Methanol in the UK. Small quantities will do for now as I'm just planning on doing test batches to start, one or two litres only till I get the hang of it. Many thanks, SB. _ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] are we at all concerned with GMO crops being marked for Biofuel
are we at all concerned with GMO crops being marked for Biofuel What is you thoughts on this. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Vehicle for school science program needed!
With the help of many individuals including members of this group, our school has developed a system of producing biodiesl and has incorporated it into our science curriculum. This program has allowed us a opportunity to teach inner city students in a hands on environment the many new and developing forms of alternative energy and fuels, that until now has been left untouched. We are now ready and can justify getting a vehicle to properly show the fruits of our labor. Because our budget is extremely short consisting solely of donations I am asking for assistance in this acquisition. If there in anyone able to donate or has information on how this idea can completed will you let it be known, it will most certainly be worth it. We are hoping to find a diesel van, small bus, car etc. For further information or questions contact me, and thank you for all assistance. Department of Science Rodney Hadley Kansas City, KS [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Energy Star Ratings and cars and Trucks?
I think what I'm going to do is make sure I come back to this point, here and there, as time permits. If this program to rate appliances and homes and other related services and goods has met with some very good success (and I think it has) then I see no reason it couldn't be applied to motor vehicles. I tend to dwell (somewhat) on how the present administration is essentially anti-Conservation and anti-renewable-energy, but I like this Energy Star Government program, within its limitations, from what little I've learned so far, regardless of which administration is at the helm. MM On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:17:04 -0400, you wrote: It's a good point. I've been investigating Energy Star ratings for buildings. Why not vehicles? On May 20, 2004, at 12:39 PM, murdoch wrote: I am spending some time today researching energy star rated appliances at www.Energystar.gov It is quite fun to see the efforts being made or apparently being made by some manufacturers to allow some folks to buy appliances which will assist them in their financial and environmental conservation efforts. Why aren't cars and trucks included in Energy Star Ratings? Might this be a partial solution to the quandry of what to do about CAFE rules and the somewhat skewed results of them? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Lyle Estill CEO Blast Internet Services www.blast.com (919) 545-2551 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Received a message from biofuel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com biofuel-unsubscribe
biobenz wrote: Doug; Of course it is not lost that the fact that you haven't run a virus checker leaves you in the absolute dark as to whether or not your PC is loaded with spyware/adware ect... How do you know? You could be the trap door to the mountains of spam that get sent via infected machines every day. The only reason we hear more about MS getting hit by hackers so much is because that's what the majority of the world is using. Linux or And because they don't fix security holes. Mac are NOT immune to infection and should they become more popular they too would see the happy litte bugs showinig up in droves looking for a home.This not to say that they have not been targeted in the past, as they have, sucessfully, so to say that this OS or that is better and immune is a false sense of security that could end up costing you big time should one of these little mignons decide that seeing as how Linux and Mac users are so not looking for an attack that that just might be fun to hit next. Linux distributions come with higher security by default. Windows still can't get the multi-user security correct. The better solution is to invest the money the hackers have forced you to dish out and get GOOD anti-virus/anti-hacking software as well as spyware and adware removal software and be happy that you did it BEFORE you lost your hard drive to some helpful hacker. The only antivirus software on my linux machines is to filter out windows viruses from email attachments. Ask Keith about this. Personally I run Norton's Internet Security combined with Spybot Search and Destroy for spyware and Ad-Aware by Lavasoft for the adware and although many many attempts have been made at gaining access to my Windows XP equiped machine none have yet suceeded in so doing, thank God, although NO system is 100% ironclad shut to hacking we owe it to ourselves to make the job as difficult as possible and then the hackathons will simply find an easier target, such as one who isn't expecting them, like say, a Linux or Mac user who thinks he/she is impervious to them. My system is impervious to viruses. Why? Because I know what's going on in here, and I don't install junk software. I have never had a virus. The fact is, if you DO NOT run anti-virus checks then HOW do you know you aren't infected? Answer: you don't. Luc I'm not. If you're running windows then you don't know. -- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: It has happened twice now. Keith
Hello Luc That's just it. The concentration isn't marked on the container.All it says is technical which is about as helpful as guess to me. I think it's 92%. Adjust accordingly, see what happens. But do the bracketed tests I suggested (poor man's titration). Best Keith Sooo, I have re-done the thing using NaOH and will shall see what is what soon. The process is I warm up the oil in a sauce pan with a thermometer in it until it reaches 130F or so and then add it to the blender and slowly add the methoxide (prepared in my Grolsch bottle- methoxide the easy way) :) Blend the lot for 15-18 minutes, pout into a Masson jar and let it settle. I get clear seperation of darker glycerine on the bottom, the lighter (but still dark) on top. I take a sample of this top layer and add water and shake and I get MAYO freekin' NAISE ! about 1/3 of it.My tests are done using 500ml instead of full liters and I just divide everything by 2. I am in the process of revamping my method, going to try some of that nice 1% phenolphthalein solution stuff instead of the PH meter and see if I get a discrepancy. I now have laboratory grade cylendars graded to acuracy for small alcohol stuff (100ml) and a larger one (1 liter/1,000ml) for the other stuff, like WVO. A least I know the volumes are OK :) My scale is OHAUS electronic 0.1gr- 400gr in 0.1 increments so it's not the scale either. Eliminating the variables is important for me 'cause I am not the sharpest tool in the shed :) So, I should be undergoing some adjustments very soon, and hopefully will get the testing stuff down before it's time to start loading the real product into the processor. I am getting some valuable help though and that is very much appreciated. Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Luc What is the concentration of your potassium hydroxide? I think from your figures below that you're presuming 100% concentration, same as NaOH (or nearly), but KOH is less concentrated and you have to allow for that. I don't have much faith in your figure of basic 4.9 potasium, it should be more, according to the concentration. Are you titrating with a KOH solution or a NaOH solution and then converting the results to KOH? More about lye http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye KOH is not as strong as NaOH -- use 1.4 times as much KOH (actually 1.4025 times). Titration is the same, just use a 0.1% KOH solution instead of NaOH solution, and use 1 gm of KOH for every milliliter of 0.1% solution used in the titration. But instead of the basic 3.5 grams of NaOH lye per liter of oil, use 3.5 x 1.4 = 4.9 grams of KOH. So, if your titration was 5 ml, use 5 + 4.9 = 9.9 gm KOH per liter of oil. One more complication -- check the purity of your KOH, it's generally not as pure as NaOH. Anhydrous grade KOH flake is usually about 92%, sometimes less -- check the label. We use half-pearls assayed at 85%. Adjust the basic quantity accordingly: the basic 4.9 grams would be 5.8 (5.775) grams for 85% KOH, or 5.3 (5.33) grams for 92% KOH. KOH dissolves in methanol much more easily than NaOH does, and doesn't clump together as NaOH can do. Do a comparison with sodium, and I'd also suggest the poor man's titration that Todd outlined for Pierre a few weeks ago. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/33676/ Instead of using jars, do a blender batch for each sample, same as you're doing now. That will mean agitation, temperature etc are just the same, with the KOH amount the only variable. You're more interested in tests using more KOH than less. Best Keith I successfully made one batch using WVO but that required a double processing and came away matching all the numbers I have read about, BUT twice now I have doen the folowing and with nearly the same results. Could someone please point out the flaw ? WVO = 500ml heated to 130F. Using the Better Titration method I titrate it using a PH meter to be 1gr extra (4ml%4=1). then I add that to the basic 4.9 potasium Hydroxide for 5.9gr and then divide by two (for the 500ml batch) The methoxide is very well mixed and I add it to the blender oil (still at 130F) slowly and let it blend for 15-18 minutes. After settling I get a distinct seperation of very dark, almost black on the bottom and a redish dark top layer (the BD) but as soon as I put it to the shake test (150ml unwashed BD to 150ml water at room temp) I get mayonaise that won't completely break even after two days. I got to be doing something wrong here. I am going to try one more time using sodiuk instead of potassium and see if I get the same results and then I will have to start questioning the PH meter and the source of WVO, not to mention my ability to understand a laid out process. Should I dump the PH meter and go with strips ? Maybe use the other liquid penolphalene (or something like that) that
Re: [biofuel] processor from cone shaped plastic tank?
Hello Heidi I'm bringing myself out of lurk to waggle a small stick at folks and ask for clarification... What other problems *specifically* make folks not like the cone-bottom HDPE barrels? (ie, 'they suck' is inept. (and that's the waggly-stick part of the post.)' they suck because you can't drain the bottom 5 inches' is more helpful. Solutions like 'use the pump to get those last five inches' are even more appreciated.) Actually, at this list, if someone just says something sucks they'll almost certainly be asked to explain why they think it sucks. The criticisms of plastic cone-bottoms have been much more substantive than that. I've just dealt with quite a lot of this and your other questions in replying to Tom Ferreira (TJ.). Did you read those messages? There's a great deal more in the archives, have you checked the archives? Not Yahoo's useless archives, this one: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ First, a little background. I belong to a co-op, but am going to try to make my own biodiesel, hopefully in the next week or two. I run a large truck and a small jetta so far and can go through a 55 gallon drum in a week, maybe less. I can get oil, no problem. With my biochemistry background (fairly distant and more cellularly focused, but still) I can handle the protocol. I've chosen the acid-base/two-step/foolproof method as the most interesting. Well, you can try if you like, but it says right there that it's not the place to start and refers you to the logical starting point: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start I'm just not as proficient with thinking through the mechanical aspects of setting up the processor. I know folks here despise the HDPE cone-shaped plastic tank setups as 'imperfect' or 'pieces of crap' and I understand that emotion I haven't seen much emotion about it. People get emotional about processors? LOL! I wouldn't have said despise either, in fact I don't think I've seen any of those descriptions. One was a joke, or junk, but there's been a lot of substantive criticism with it. I've kept saying that I don't see much wrong with plastic processors per se if it's well done, including the use of heaters. I know of people who've built them and used them for years. It's true though that I'm generally critical of the ready-made versions, and a major reason for that is that most of them have tended to bend the process to fit the processor instead of the other way round, especially with profit-margin and marketing considerations, it seems. For instance, trying to do the wash in the processor isn't the best idea, but most of them either recommend that or trundle out a lot of nonsense that washing is a bad idea anyway. And so on. From some of the results I know of it seems these criticisms are justified. Another factor is that many people think they're a waste of money, you're much better off building your own - not difficult, much cheaper, almost certainly better, and very empowering! That last point is an important aspect of the DIY biofuels movement. may be because some folks install high-powered heaters through their side (causing the sides to sometimes melt out at the heater insertion point?) or because some folks *don't* put heaters in them which isn't as useful or because some folks are using them to reap cash from possibly-unsuspecting newbies. I'm hoping we can let go of those reasons to answer the two main questions in this post. I've been to the websites and looked at all the processors. Like TJ, I like the *look* of the cone-bottomed HDPE models. I'm going to have to live with it in plain and obvious view in my backyard for some time - and in my front/side yard until I can clear space in the back. People will come over for dinner and see it sitting in my beautifully rampant garden. It's gotta look nice, period. (I think I have enough 'hidden' yard space to do the standpipe drum washer, but not the whole processor.) I am willing to spend a certain amount of money to get to a completed processor (say, $750 or so.) Unfortunately not quite enough to have an elegant stainless model made. (small grin) So, I'm back to the HDPE cone-bottom'd barrels again. Is there any reason that a 'belted' tank warmer made specifically for plastic barrels wouldn't work for heating the HDPE cone-bottom'd reaction vessel? (wrapped in the silver-foiled bubble wrap to help keep the heat) (www.grainger.com) (item number 4vt65 heats to 150 degrees) Reports I've seen could barely get the oil above 100 deg F. But maybe that could be improved. Why not use a pre-heating tank and a burner that uses the by-product? Then it's free, and you're not wasting more energy and most likely fossil-fuels. Best wishes Keith Yes, the heater-belt is expensive and not as scrounger-cool as making one from used stove parts... but does anyone see any reason it would not otherwise work and more safely than the insertion heaters?
[biofuel] re: weird gummy stuff
I wonder why you're being so defensive? Insulting? Well, if you insist on being insulted I guess there's no help for it. But believe me, Noam, if I'd set out to insult you I wouldn't have left it in any doubt whatsoever. As it is, I doubt anyone can see any insults other than you. This was certainly not my first attempt. I have made many test batches, and we made test batches in my class the previous week. And yes this was our first attempt making a 5 gallon batch. When I mixed the methoxide before we did it in blenders, before adding our oil. Yes, we used grease from restaurants- used oil. I personally don't consider virgin oil to be grease. There are people here from more than a hundred countries, and I believe your country is the only one, or at least one of the very few, where they refer to oil as grease. If you're going to take offence if someone asks for clarity to help answer your questions then you mustn't expect much further patience from them, or from anybody. Your first message did not specify what oil you used. It didn't specify much at all. The problem I was having was how to mix larger quantities of methoxide. Not all of us can have a completely closed system immediately. Any of us can very easily acquire an HDPE carboy. We can do our best with what we have and what we can afford. That doesn't make us any less important. If me and the other list member who responded to you considered it unimportant we probably wouldn't have bothered, no? It seems to me that this community could use a bit more respect of those that have less experience. I'll tell you something. With our VERY demanding project, Journey to Forever, we have only a marginal interest in whether one more or less American or citizen of any other industrialised country makes biodiesel or not. We also have little interest in whether or not such folks join the Biofuel list, stay and prosper, or leave in high dudgeon, or whether they visit our website or not, we already get far more visits than we can easily handle. Our focus is on sustainable fuel and energy for 3rd World rural communities, and even then only as a part of an overall Appropriate Technology approach. What happens in the industrialised countries is of little interest to us. Yet I spend an inordinate amount of time that I DON'T have to spare helping industrial-nation newbies learn how to make high-quality fuel reliably. Including you. I don't need to be told to have more respect. Others here are in a similar situation. They spend a lot of time that they also don't have to spare helping newcomers to learn. They also don't need to be told to have more respect. You do though. I have read Tickell and read much on Journey to forever. When someone has a question it honestly doesn't help much to refer me to websites- I have seen this already. If you'd already seen the links I referred you to you wouldn't have asked the questions you did and saying you'd used a plastic bucket and a paddle. It's obvious you didn't bother to refer to the links, and still haven't. That's not insulting? But I didn't get insulted, just referred you to them again. Why don't you climb down off your high horse and check them out? I checked the very same sites before posting my question (i wouldn't waste bandwidth). But to no avail it seems. It's right there in the index, how come you didn't see it? It was something I hadn't seen before, either personally, on the list, or on the web. I don't think responding with condescension to those who are less experienced really helps any of us. What nonsense! I was hoping that the list could be a source for those of us who have only been doing this a few months to trouble shoot. What I got was a bit insulting, with all due respect. i haven't really had any of my questions answered. Yes you have, but... How is that helpful? ... you can lead a horse to the water, and that's all you can do. Not too difficult to see what's going on here. I think you have to choose. I think you already have. Pity, that. Helping newbies? I don't need much encouragement to chuck it in and get on with too many other pressing things that are much more important to us. I think you may just have provided that encouragement. What the hell, we've been running this list for four years now, helped build up a huge treasure-house of an archives where people can find everything they need to know if they're but prepared to look, we've spent vast numbers of hours providing and maintaining the resources at our website (and doing the work itself!) which constant feedback tells us is more than enough to learn to make biodiesel... And we didn't have any of this, nor any help from anyone, all we had was 13 paragraphs we found on the Web. A lot of us here can say the same. Sod it, enough already. Do it yourself! Keith Addison Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Noam __ Hello Noam
[biofuel] Just picked up my first used oil. Is this type OK to use??
I picked up a small 5 gallong jug of used cooking oil. Before I try to make my first batch of biodiesel, I wanted to make sure this kind of oil is OK to use. So here is the information I found on the outside of the box. There is a plastic jug inside this cardboard box holder protecting the outside. Not sure why they have this cardboard but... Anyway, it is called Creamy Liquid Fry Shortening by Jade Mountain. Ingredients are: Liquid and partially hydrogenated soybean oil, TBHQ Citric Acid added to protect flavor, Dimethylpolysiloxane, an Anti-Foaming agent, added. This is what the label shows. Distributed by Sysco Corp. Is this OK. It smells and looks good I must say but... Thomas Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] No time to quit Keith
For one I consider it quite large of you and others here to spend your time in such a sacrificial way attempting to help us newbies learn something that for today is not a real emergency in N.America but can and probably will become one soon considering the way things are developing internationally with the warhogs on the loose and all, so please do not become disenchanted and discouraged by some overly stuffed, has-to-much-already spoiled brat that can't appreciate help when it is offered. I have traveled the Pacific twice; Australia, New Zealand, New Caledonia, American and Western Samoas, Fiji and hold it very dear in my memory at how the other half lives, so don't include me in the unappreciative crowd. I believe in doing things the natural way as much as can be applied and at times that requires a little adjustment to the way we have been taught about life in the West. We live in a very spoiled society which has way too much of everything, and got that way at the expense of the world's poor through unequal economic practices aimed at keeping the fat fatter and the poor poorer. Don't get to thinking that your time end efforts are not welcomed and appreciated because to those of us who need good guidance they are. Not flowers that wilt, just credit where credit is due. Luc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Received a message from biofuel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com biofuel-unsubscribe
biobenz wrote: Doug; Of course it is not lost that the fact that you haven't run a virus checker leaves you in the absolute dark as to whether or not your PC is loaded with spyware/adware ect... How do you know? You could be the trap door to the mountains of spam that get sent via infected machines every day. The only reason we hear more about MS getting hit by hackers so much is because that's what the majority of the world is using. Linux or And because they don't fix security holes. Mac are NOT immune to infection and should they become more popular they too would see the happy litte bugs showinig up in droves looking for a home.This not to say that they have not been targeted in the past, as they have, sucessfully, so to say that this OS or that is better and immune is a false sense of security that could end up costing you big time should one of these little mignons decide that seeing as how Linux and Mac users are so not looking for an attack that that just might be fun to hit next. Linux distributions come with higher security by default. Windows still can't get the multi-user security correct. The better solution is to invest the money the hackers have forced you to dish out and get GOOD anti-virus/anti-hacking software as well as spyware and adware removal software and be happy that you did it BEFORE you lost your hard drive to some helpful hacker. The only antivirus software on my linux machines is to filter out windows viruses from email attachments. Ask Keith about this. :-) Martin, shouldn't that have been *Don't* ask Keith about this? Should explain that Martin not only runs the list's Extremely Useful Archives but also hosts our website, and thus our email too. At one stage it was like being mail-bombed until he installed that goodie. Aah, the peace! All Windows stuff. Our previous hosts used Macs, not Linux, also no virus problems (I've also never had a virus, and I do know), but as they got bigger and more successful, their service and general thinking got less successful, more and more problems. Finally they got into some real M$-think by installing a so-called spam-blocker which wiped out the whole of Japan! Along with us - no email! Their solution was that it was our fault for using a Japanese service provider. Ho-hum. The last straw. That's the same kind of M$-think I mentioned before, with dumbo sys-admins setting up auto-systems that send the things *back* to you though you didn't send them in the first place. Just got another one, 69kb, usual Mydoom virus and false address. They STILL haven't figured that out, that viruses steal sender's addresses? Windoze is surely a good name for it. Best Keith Personally I run Norton's Internet Security combined with Spybot Search and Destroy for spyware and Ad-Aware by Lavasoft for the adware and although many many attempts have been made at gaining access to my Windows XP equiped machine none have yet suceeded in so doing, thank God, although NO system is 100% ironclad shut to hacking we owe it to ourselves to make the job as difficult as possible and then the hackathons will simply find an easier target, such as one who isn't expecting them, like say, a Linux or Mac user who thinks he/she is impervious to them. My system is impervious to viruses. Why? Because I know what's going on in here, and I don't install junk software. I have never had a virus. The fact is, if you DO NOT run anti-virus checks then HOW do you know you aren't infected? Answer: you don't. Luc I'm not. If you're running windows then you don't know. -- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] processor from cone shaped plastic tank?
I've just dealt with quite a lot of this and your other questions in replying to Tom Ferreira (TJ.). Did you read those messages? There's a great deal more in the archives, have you checked the archives? Not Yahoo's useless archives, this one: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Yes, and yes. I first searched the useless, then the more-useful archives, then TJ came on the scene and I read all the posts to him and kept waiting for specifics. For the most part, folks kept saying that the use of poly tanks either wasn't well done, or that they melt. There was very little other information on what specifically was not 'well done' or what specifically made them melt (ie, was it an overly-powerful heater? was it being inserted through the side of the wall? Did the plastic weld have a lower melting point?) What are the other downsides or positive aspects of poly tank use? I finally decided to write in and ask. I'm asking if there IS any other information on the use of poly tanks in making bd, especially concerning design and design flaws. the place to start and refers you to the logical starting point: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Yes, I know, I know. I've read it backwards and then forwards again. I have read the entire biodiesel section of the journeytoforever site. Front to back, top to bottom. Printed out a fair amount of it too. It's one of the best sites out there when it comes to biodiesel, but it does not have answers to my questions about poly tanks and their feasibility in actual use. My question is NOT about actually making the bd, it's about processor componentry. I haven't seen much emotion about it. People get emotional about processors? LOL! I wouldn't have said despise either, in fact I don't think I've seen any of those descriptions. One was a joke, or junk, but there's been a lot of substantive criticism with it. Okay, I'll agree to disagree with whether folks get emotional about their processors or if describing someone else's processor as a joke, or junk could qualify as 'despising'. That is not really the question. The question is whether the poly tanks can work decently. I've kept saying that I don't see much wrong with plastic processors per se if it's well done, including the use of heaters. Right, but what specifically constitutes 'well done' when it comes to poly processors? Folks seem to feel the poly meister is not well done, so how would they improve on its design? Would it be easier to describe what is 'not well done'? Is there a hose/pump/outlet configuration that works with poly better than other configurations? Is there a rxn heater that's worked effectively without a poly meltdown? Is there a poly configuration that worked out to be horrible? (besides the through-the-side heater) Who uses poly reaction vessels? I know of people who've built them and used them for years. Are their models structurally different from either of the two poly-set-ups that are for sale? How have they improved on it? What do they do differently? What don't they bother with? (and I already know I won't be mist washing, but will wash otherwise.) For instance, trying to do the wash in the processor isn't the best idea, The rational being that washing in your reaction vessel just means you can't make more bd. Yes? Personally, I like the standpipe design for my washing. Anything else? (www.grainger.com) (item number 4vt65 heats to 150 degrees) Reports I've seen could barely get the oil above 100 deg F. But maybe that could be improved. That is some very interesting information. Was it more than one person who couldn't get it to heat properly? Did they use any sort of insulative covering? Do you know who the reports came from so I could ask for more details? Why not use a pre-heating tank and a burner that uses the by-product? Then it's free, and you're not wasting more energy and most likely fossil-fuels. The acid/base protocol requires the second stage of the rxn be heated to 55degC, 8 hours after the oil would have left a pre-heater. Does anybody out there personally use a poly tank to make their bd? Heidi Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] First timer
hello everyone, i just joined the group and im interested in starting bio diesel and posibly ethanol production. i was wondering if you guys had any ideas on the best way for me to go about producing? ethanol looks like its a huge ratio of resource to product as in opposed to biodiesel (tonnag to gallons instead of gallons to gallons) but still your ideas would be great. also what is the best method for making biodiesel? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] hydrogen highway
Hydrogen Highway http://www.alternate-energy.net/hydrogen_highway04.html The Hydrogen Highway California's answer to higher gas prices. May 20 , 2004 By Allen Gibson The price of oil surpassed forty dollars a barrel this Spring - a high not seen except for a few days prior to the first Gulf War. The experts agree that the price is likely to stay high for the next few years, and after that it may go are you ready for this? even higher. Famous Texas Oilman T. Boone Pickens, speaking recently to a large crowd at the Petroleum Club in Midland, Texas, predicted that oil would never fall below $30 a barrel again. I think you'll see $50 a barrel before you see $30, declared Mr. Pickens. Is the high cost of energy a surprise? Did no one see this coming? No, and yes. Oil industry observers have been saying for decades that oil production will peak soon, that supplies will begin to drop on a global scale and that, someday, we will just plain run out. We aren't there yet. Production, in fact, has been slowly but steadily increasing for the past two decades. But what most people seem to have missed is the surge in demand and consumption in the worlds' two most populous nations, China and India. full article http://www.alternate-energy.net/hydrogen_highway04.html Alternative Energy Weekly News Alerts http://www.alternate-energy.net/newsalerts04-12.html Magnetism and Magnetic Physics http://www.alternate-energy.net/hist04-1b.html Electro-Magnetics http://www.alternate-energy.net/electromagnetic04.html Software Tools for Magnetic Field Visualization, electromagnetic and High Frequency Electromagnetic Simulation etc. http://www.alternate-energy.net/soft04.html Magnetic Levitation and Magnetic Physics resources http://www.alternate-energy.net/electrolev04b.html Alternate Energy Resource Network http://www.alternate-energy.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] What is typical cost for gallon of methanol?
Just getting started. Live here in California where everything is double the price grin. Called couple raceways in Sacramento and Methanol is selling for about $4 to $4.50 per gallon. Is that about right when I buy 5 gallon jugs? Thomas Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] are we at all concerned with GMO crops being marked for Biofuel
are we at all concerned with GMO crops being marked for Biofuel What is you thoughts on this. Hello Billy Yes we are, or should be, IMO. What's the sense in producing allegedly sustainable biofuels by means of an unsustainable agriculture system? I said (re-said?) something about it a few days ago: It can be done sustainably, but indeed not via industrialised monocropping. I said this before: If you just swap fuels instead of changing the entire disaster you'll end up with wall-to-wall industrialized monocrops of GMO soy and canola. Big Biofuels may not turn out to be much better than Big Oil. Silly thing about it is that industrialized monocropping of biofuels crops would be (is) just as fossil-fuel-dependent as industrialized monocropping of anything else is. What's the use of finding a cure for cancer if it gives you a heart attack? Previously there was this: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/32336/ There's another archives url in that message linking to a lot more information. And quite a lot more than that in the archives too. Sustainability is an important issue with biofuels, or we'll just be left watching the same old bad movie all over again, and it could have an even worse ending. There's something of that in the idea here of what more it needs than just substituting fossil-fuels with biofuels: greatly reduced energy use, greatly improved energy efficiency, decentralisation of supply to the local (community, farm) level, and the use of a combination of the available technologies as the local circumstances require. GMO crops have not shown any signs they might be sustainable, and every sign that they're not, on quite a few different levels. That could change. It's not the technology itself so much as the way it's been implemented so far, by whom, why, how, for whose benefit and at whose expense. You can't expect much else from the current players. But they're not the only show in town, it's to be hoped that genetic engineering is allowed to fulfill it's considerable potential rather than being permanently discredited because of the way it's been abused by these charlatans who've purloined it. Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] No time to quit Keith
Hello Luc For one I consider it quite large of you and others here to spend your time in such a sacrificial way attempting to help us newbies learn something that for today is not a real emergency in N.America but can and probably will become one soon considering the way things are developing internationally with the warhogs on the loose and all, so please do not become disenchanted and discouraged by some overly stuffed, has-to-much-already spoiled brat that can't appreciate help when it is offered. :-) Allright, I'll try. I have traveled the Pacific twice; Australia, New Zealand, New Caledonia, American and Western Samoas, Fiji and hold it very dear in my memory at how the other half lives, so don't include me in the unappreciative crowd. Certainly not, I wouldn't think of it, and didn't. I believe in doing things the natural way as much as can be applied and at times that requires a little adjustment to the way we have been taught about life in the West. We live in a very spoiled society which has way too much of everything, and got that way at the expense of the world's poor through unequal economic practices aimed at keeping the fat fatter and the poor poorer. Well, I agree with that. And that's my problem. We rob Peter to pay Paul on a daily basis here, we're very under-resourced. We're well on our way to doing something about that, but progress is painfully slow because we have too much to do. A difficult phase for us. So we have to rob somebody to get something else done, and then hope we can ravel it up again later somehow. Who do you suggest we should rob, the other half that our whole project's all about or the spoiled and fat? Don't get to thinking that your time end efforts are not welcomed and appreciated because to those of us who need good guidance they are. Not flowers that wilt, just credit where credit is due. Thankyou! Much appreciated in turn. I knew I wouldn't be able to chuck it in when I wrote that, or not just like that anyway. Something's got to give though, have to make some changes, no choice. There should be some kind of both-and resolution there somewhere beyond all the either-or's, just can't see it yet. I wasn't particularly annoyed with said party either, I don't get annoyed that easily. On the other hand, I definitely did mean it in his case when I said Do it yourself! Thanks again Luc. Best wishes Keith Luc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Diesel VWs: High Mileage Vehicles, Well Kept Secrets?
Hello Bruce Thanks very much for this, and for the references. The second one I had, but not the other two. Needs some study, and I have to do a bit more exploring. Alexander Noack of Elsbett made the same statement to me regarding the lubricating oil contamination problems when using soybean SVO. (We were discussing only SVO so I am not sure if he also meant to imply soybean based Biodiesel as well.) I did some research on the lubrication oil contamination issue and polymerization issue and the following links may be helpful: http://www.missouri.edu/~pavt0689/Research_Needs_Resulting.pdf http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/199909 02_gen-228.pdf http://www.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel/Pages/biodiesel21.html The vegetable-based lubricating oil that is referred to, is mandatory to use in Elsbett converted engines, according to the Elsbett instructions. However, this lubricating oil, made by Fuchs, is not sold in the U.S. so this poses a problem. However, I have not been able, so far, to find any other Elsbett customers in the U.S. who seem concerned by this. How about synthetic oil? Thanks again Best wishes Keith Bruce Colley, Sustainable Energy Project http://www.sustainableenergyproject.org - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Diesel VWs: High Mileage Vehicles, Well Kept Secrets? Hakan, MM MM, You asked about VW, Europe and biodiesel. In Europe the VW diesels are certified for RME fuel (biodiesel). The are clearly stating that in the specifications. RME = Rapeseed Methyl Esters. They don't like soy biodiesel. It's been thought that this is more political than anything else - Europe grows rapeseed, the US grows soy. But biodiesel is biodiesel is biodiesel. Which is what the EPA says with their substantial equivalence for all feedstocks, although the NBB only tested virgin soy biodiesel. But there could be more to it. Rachel Burton posted a link to Lyle's site and her report on a recent SVO workshop with Elsbett engineer Alexander Noack. It included this interesting bit: Soybean oil is bad. Whether it is straight vegetable oil or soybean based biodiesel. It is a no-go in diesel engines. Why? In diesel engines you have slight mixing between fuel and lubricating oil. There is a fuel property in soybean oil that makes it reactive when in contact with engine lubricating oil. It supposedly has a polymerizing action with the engine oil, which is detrimental to the life of your lubricating system. What they do in Europe is use a vegetable-based lubricating oil for the engine to prevent any problems with fuel-lubricating oil intimacy. What else? They do not use soybean oil; They use rape seed also known as canola. http://www.biofuels.coop/blog/archives/66.html Energy Blog: Elsbett Workshop Slightly different, but if you have a look at the new Euro standard for biodiesel, here: National standards for biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield2.html#biodstds See Europe EN 14214, scroll down to Oxidation stability hrs; 110¡C - 6 hours min. Only Europe has such a standard, and the concern is polymerisation due to oxidation. The Iodine No. standard is 120; others are lower, but the US ASTM D-6751 doesn't specify an IV. The higher the IV the more it's a drying oil that will polymerise, the highest being linseed and fish oil and the lowest coconut and palm kernel. For an explanation see: Iodine Values http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine So have a look at these Iodine Values: Rapeseed oil, h. eruc. - 97 to 105 Rapeseed oil, i. eruc. - 110 to 115 Soybean oil - 125 to 1 So. I think there's some substance to this, I'll find out more soon. Meeting the German or Austrian standard isn't difficult, but the Euro standard might be, especially if we think bubblewashing is a great idea. Might have to drop bubblewashing, go for simple stirring instead (and making the stuff properly in the first place). Might have to use an additive as well. And, might have to drop soy too. Something tells me the ASTM standard isn't about to adopt these Euro oxidation limits any time soon. Anyway, both VW and Mercedes seem to be going for Fischer Tropsch diesel from biomass. Perhaps the reason they prefer it to biodiesel might be that it gives them a nice industrial, high-tech, expensive operation to invest in, well beyond the reach of this shabby riff-raff that's taken to making biodiesel in their garages and now the whole thing's right out of corporate control. :-) Best Keith Hakan At 20:16 19/05/2004, you wrote: I have collected four testimonials to high-mileage VW Diesels that came up in discussion. I have seen many such testimonials over the years, but I have been meaning to make a few
Re: [biofuel] First timer
hello everyone, i just joined the group and im interested in starting bio diesel and posibly ethanol production. i was wondering if you guys had any ideas on the best way for me to go about producing? ethanol looks like its a huge ratio of resource to product as in opposed to biodiesel (tonnag to gallons instead of gallons to gallons) but still your ideas would be great. also what is the best method for making biodiesel? Hello Zach, welcome The choice between ethanol and biodiesel depends on what motor you'll be using. They're not really comparable. As for the resources involved, the difference with biodiesel is that you start off with an already refined product, the oil. You could make ethanol from sugar if you wanted to. You can find everything you'll need to know about making biodiesel at the two links at the end of each message: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ The first is acknowledged as the premier source of small-scale biofuels information on the Web. The second is a treasure house of information on all aspects of biofuels, especially biodiesel - it contains 34,000 messages over the last four years, many of them from leaders in the field worldwide. For biodiesel specifically, start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Ethanol http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html See also the online Biofuels library: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] processor from cone shaped plastic tank?
I've just dealt with quite a lot of this and your other questions in replying to Tom Ferreira (TJ.). Did you read those messages? There's a great deal more in the archives, have you checked the archives? Not Yahoo's useless archives, this one: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Yes, and yes. I first searched the useless, then the more-useful archives, then TJ came on the scene and I read all the posts to him and kept waiting for specifics. For the most part, folks kept saying that the use of poly tanks either wasn't well done, or that they melt. There was very little other information on what specifically was not 'well done' or what specifically made them melt (ie, was it an overly-powerful heater? was it being inserted through the side of the wall? Did the plastic weld have a lower melting point?) What are the other downsides or positive aspects of poly tank use? I finally decided to write in and ask. I'm asking if there IS any other information on the use of poly tanks in making bd, especially concerning design and design flaws. the place to start and refers you to the logical starting point: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Yes, I know, I know. I've read it backwards and then forwards again. I have read the entire biodiesel section of the journeytoforever site. Front to back, top to bottom. Library too? Printed out a fair amount of it too. It's one of the best sites out there when it comes to biodiesel, We don't think that's the most important part of it, just a part. but it does not have answers to my questions about poly tanks and their feasibility in actual use. It says what we want it to say about them. Why the close focus on a particular kind of processor when you haven't even made any bd yet? You're theorising about something that most experienced users say doesn't lend itself well to theory. Quite a lot of them have advised newcomers who get hung up on the exigencies of processor design to start making the stuff, once they have a bit of hands-on they might have different ideas, and indeed they often do. My question is NOT about actually making the bd, it's about processor componentry. I was aware of that. I haven't seen much emotion about it. People get emotional about processors? LOL! I wouldn't have said despise either, in fact I don't think I've seen any of those descriptions. One was a joke, or junk, but there's been a lot of substantive criticism with it. Okay, I'll agree to disagree with whether folks get emotional about their processors or if describing someone else's processor as a joke, or junk could qualify as 'despising'. Depends on what solid information backed up the use of those terms. That is not really the question. The question is whether the poly tanks can work decently. I've kept saying that I don't see much wrong with plastic processors per se if it's well done, including the use of heaters. Right, but what specifically constitutes 'well done' when it comes to poly processors? Folks seem to feel the poly meister is not well done, so how would they improve on its design? You're sure you read the archives? You did a search for Fuelmeister as I advised T.J.? Quite a lot of people commented on it, they had a lot to say. Would it be easier to describe what is 'not well done'? Is there a hose/pump/outlet configuration that works with poly better than other configurations? Is there a rxn heater that's worked effectively without a poly meltdown? Is there a poly configuration that worked out to be horrible? (besides the through-the-side heater) Who uses poly reaction vessels? I know of people who've built them and used them for years. Are their models structurally different from either of the two poly-set-ups that are for sale? How have they improved on it? What do they do differently? What don't they bother with? (and I already know I won't be mist washing, but will wash otherwise.) For instance, trying to do the wash in the processor isn't the best idea, The rational being that washing in your reaction vessel just means you can't make more bd. Yes? No. Didn't you say you'd read my posts to T.J.? Personally, I like the standpipe design for my washing. Anything else? (www.grainger.com) (item number 4vt65 heats to 150 degrees) Reports I've seen could barely get the oil above 100 deg F. But maybe that could be improved. That is some very interesting information. Was it more than one person who couldn't get it to heat properly? Did they use any sort of insulative covering? Do you know who the reports came from so I could ask for more details? Why not use a pre-heating tank and a burner that uses the by-product? Then it's free, and you're not wasting more energy and most likely fossil-fuels. The acid/base protocol requires the second stage of the rxn be heated to 55degC, 8 hours after the oil would have left a pre-heater. You don't say. I did say that's
[biofuel] Re: What is typical cost for gallon of methanol?
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, TJ Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just getting started. Live here in California where everything is double the price grin. Called couple raceways in Sacramento and Methanol is selling for about $4 to $4.50 per gallon. Is that about right when I buy 5 gallon jugs? Thomas ouch , here in Texas , I buy mine in 55 gal drums , and the last price in March I got was $1.55 gal you need to find the one that is selling to the raceways or speed shops Meth follows the Natual Gas prices because it is a by product of it that is way to high , and another reason I do not live in CA anymore Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
