[biofuel] discussions of the new NBB small producer decision
I was surprised that there wasn't more discussion of the new NBB small producer membership policy. Here's the two places where the commentary I got is found: http://www.forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3030 also Lyle wrote up his journalistic version and it's inspired some commentary in his 'blog': http://www.biofuels.coop/blog/archives/000107.html#more Mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Pneumatic Exhaust Silencers: Bubble washing
Ian Jackson had a good recommendation regarding washing his biodiesel. He used pneumatic exhaust silencers to bubble wash the biodiesel. Does anyone know what size silencer he uses? They come in about 4 or 5 different sizes. I tried to figure it out from his pictures, but I didn't have much to reference. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] inline glow plug for SVO heating?
i would be worried about that glow plug getting too hot for sure! i think that they draw about 9-12 amps per plug, and that's a lot of current to go thru a dimmer switch. if it's a dimmer from a house circuit i suspect that it wouldn't hold up. that kind of current is equivalent to something like 1000-1500 watts load on a 120V circuit. (it's the amps that's the problem in sizing electrics, in case you don't know.) i doubt that a normal dimmer is rated that high. and if you want to see how hot a glow plug will get then you can hook a positive wire from the battery to the wire terminal and holding it in a pair of pliers ground the case to some bare metal on the vehicle. it doesn't take long at all for that thing to very literally GLOW! they get red and even white hot. according to this page: http://www.forparts.com/bosglowplugs.htm they can get to 1000-1100 C! so unless you have VERY careful control i would say there's a very real chance of having problems with the fuel being too hot and melting the rubber hoses. this sounds like an interesting low tech type thing, but extreme caution is called for, seems to me. this page also shows similiar temp ranges: http://www.ngk.de/Sheathed_type_glow_plugs.691.0.html and if it was me, i'd try to go with a vw glow plug, since they last forever, as compared to the ford or gm ones which i've replaced many times over the years. seems every year or two they need changing out. good luck, but please be careful! i'd love to hear the results if you decide to proceed with it. erik --- Joshua [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Well, we are converting two diesel school buses to SVO. Both are International, one 6.9l and the other a 7.2l. Our conversions work relatively well, but we are adding an extra heating element, and that is a GLOW PLUG, installed in a brass T directly in the fuel line, just before it goes into the transfer pump. Has anyone ever done this? We are slightly concerned about the fuel getting TOO hot. We of course have a switch to turn the glow plug on and off when we want, and even a three way dimmer knob to adjust the amount of power going to the glow plug, but we don't have a whole lot of experience with glow plugs. Does anyone know exactly how hot a glow plug gets? Our only concern is melting the rubber fuel hose, but I am skeptical of that. The only other concern is that we are using teflon thread tape to keep the glow plug fitting tight, and there has been some concern expressed about the diesel fuel disolving that, or the heat causing it to degrade? We have seen one person at the National Rainbow Gathering who had a glow plug installed in a similar way (except we threaded it in, and he's got it JB Welded!). This is where we got the idea, but I am interested in any input anyone has in this concept. Anyway, thank you so much! Cheers, Joshua __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Price of Fuel
to all who have contributed their knowledge and opinion about fuel pricing, thank you very much. good day! beng --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And THAT is the reason why the Oz government taxes backyard BD brewers. 0.93/liter ? Someone is making a bundle, wonder who THAT could be ? There is no valid reason that dino diesel would be more expensive than regular petrol as it costs less to produce, although with all those lories needing fuel and the economy being ripped off with high transport fees should give you an idea. John the coward Howard's gov have their priorities in big business's profit line, just like the US and UK, at the expense of the people of their respective countries. Of course there is alwasy the school of tghought that says that one could just as easily make one's own BD and if anyone should ask what you need the methanol (methyl hydrate) for and the lye (sodium or potassium hydroxide) one could quite truthfully say that one is making soap. It's a bit of a catch me if you can approach and if that peson were to be discreet and not go shooting their mouth off one could most likely get away with it. The methanol, other than the original start up costs, is what will kick up the expense, but if you recover and reuse the meth your costs go WAY down. SHould one be a little concerned about the tell tale smell one could always mix it with 10-20% dino to camouflage it :) I am not one for excessive government meddling in things that are for all intents and purposes beneficial when it hurts no one (but big oil) and is actually good for the environment, good for the consumer, good for the business that has to pay to have the stuff carted off. It's total win-win (except for Rockerfeller ect...) The pitance that they don't get in road use taxes is more than offset by all the thievery they have been up to, as in spending MILLIONS on illegal wars ect..., so no guilt trip either. But it IS rocking the boat and going against the system du jour and if that same system finds you they will do what they do best, oppress, but the moral victory still stands and the publicity will only serve to highten interest (not to say that being a martyr is something to wish upon one's self but if it happens make the best of it). And that is my tupence. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, NEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day Keith? Jake? Donald, I have no idea who's post I'm responding to, but I managed to read some of it, I was confused by what may have been responses inserted in the main text. need to change the fonts for that I reckon. Anyhow, I live in oz oztralia and the current price for diesel here in a major city is $1.04 centsau per litre and we have 4.54 litres to the gall. I think your gallon in the usa is 4litres. diesel here is dearer than unleaded petrol why? nobody knows. I have found a biodiesel outlet here in Newcastle NSW. it's the factory that makes it for farmers in another state and they will sell me all I want at get this $0.93 cents litre. The fact that it is not cancerous ought to make people with cruisers that have diesel fumes coming over the transom be a very good reason to change over. I wont comment on the Iraqi invasion as I'm very left wing and think the white house and the nearest insane asylum need to change places, the world would be a better place and thirty thousand iraqi's would still have their lives. Anyway im takin my truck up to this place with a few (44gal) drums you callem 50 gal over there. and fill up with the bio.. Cheers Neil. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Drinking rain water [was: Drink Water From Dehumidifier?]
Hey thanks Balaji, That fistful of urls on rainwater harvesting was an eye-opener. And much intrigued by the use of stone heaps to generate water through precipitation from dew. You may be interested to know that the dew precipitation concept is also used in nature. In my youth I spent a few years working on a diamond mine in the Namib Desert, an area of almost zero rainfall yet with a variety of wild life. The most fascinating was a group of insects that had evolved a carapace specially adapted to use the dew precipitation technique. They were black beetles whose carapaces were channelled with vee-shaped grooves that intersected at the mouth parts. When the Atlantic fog came in, usually early morning, they would stand on the highest dunes and tilt themselves at an angle, rear end up. This allowed the humid air to precipitate on their carapaces which then drained the water directly to the mouth. Every animal and insect in that region used a water retrieval method of some kind to stay alive. But won't go into details otherwise this post becomes too long and boring. Regards, Bob. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Pneumatic Exhaust Silencers
on 7/21/04 3:36 PM, kkeennbb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Jackson had a good recommendation regarding washing his biodiesel. He used pneumatic exhaust silencers to bubblewash the biodiesel. Does anyone know what size silencer he uses? They come in about 4 or 5 different sizes. I know NOTHING of that however, my own bubblers are 1/2 NPT sintered bronze muffler filters, NuLine brand, avail. from MSC Industrial Supply Co. here: http://www.mscdirect.com Beware -- they are quite OPEN, and will produce a lot of foam if you have much soap. I use two per bucket, on opposite ends of some fittings from Home Depot. They're so open, all the bubbles come out of one muffler if the assy isn't completely level. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: inline glow plug for SVO heating?
Thank you for your input. Since the fuel going through the glow plug will be flowing, and never remaining stationary, we are hoping that it doesn't get too hot to melt the lines. We also have a temperature sensor installed similarly in the fuel line (with a brass T and rubber hose nipples) about six inches past the glow plug T to monitor the temperature of the fuel. We are, howerver, considering putting the glow plug and sensor actually in the metal fuel line just after the last fuel filter, just before it goes into the injection pump to make sure that our reading is as accurate as possible. However, this is a rather more difficult place to mount it, as those are fitted metal lines, and flared fittings and all that jazz. So where it is now is much easier, and it is the last place the fuel goes before it is entirely in metal lines. Rubber lines are rather easier to work with. Does anyone have any notion of the optimum temperature for vegetable oil to reach where it's viscosity is exactly that of diesel fuel? We have blown one injection pump running on SVO and since been mixing it with about 20% diesel to avoid that, cause the injection pump costs $500. As for the dimmer switch, it is not a household one, but an automotive 12v one with three settings, and we have that run after the lighted switch, so both have to be on for power to reach the glow plug. Anyway, we also discovered today that our head is cracked, so we'll be fiddling a while longer while getting a replacement, so please, suggestions, criticism, whatever ya all got! ;) Love and Light! Joshua --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Erik Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i would be worried about that glow plug getting too hot for sure! i think that they draw about 9-12 amps per plug, and that's a lot of current to go thru a dimmer switch. if it's a dimmer from a house circuit i suspect that it wouldn't hold up. that kind of current is equivalent to something like 1000-1500 watts load on a 120V circuit. (it's the amps that's the problem in sizing electrics, in case you don't know.) i doubt that a normal dimmer is rated that high. and if you want to see how hot a glow plug will get then you can hook a positive wire from the battery to the wire terminal and holding it in a pair of pliers ground the case to some bare metal on the vehicle. it doesn't take long at all for that thing to very literally GLOW! they get red and even white hot. according to this page: http://www.forparts.com/bosglowplugs.htm they can get to 1000-1100 C! so unless you have VERY careful control i would say there's a very real chance of having problems with the fuel being too hot and melting the rubber hoses. this sounds like an interesting low tech type thing, but extreme caution is called for, seems to me. this page also shows similiar temp ranges: http://www.ngk.de/Sheathed_type_glow_plugs.691.0.html and if it was me, i'd try to go with a vw glow plug, since they last forever, as compared to the ford or gm ones which i've replaced many times over the years. seems every year or two they need changing out. good luck, but please be careful! i'd love to hear the results if you decide to proceed with it. erik --- Joshua [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Well, we are converting two diesel school buses to SVO. Both are International, one 6.9l and the other a 7.2l. Our conversions work relatively well, but we are adding an extra heating element, and that is a GLOW PLUG, installed in a brass T directly in the fuel line, just before it goes into the transfer pump. Has anyone ever done this? We are slightly concerned about the fuel getting TOO hot. We of course have a switch to turn the glow plug on and off when we want, and even a three way dimmer knob to adjust the amount of power going to the glow plug, but we don't have a whole lot of experience with glow plugs. Does anyone know exactly how hot a glow plug gets? Our only concern is melting the rubber fuel hose, but I am skeptical of that. The only other concern is that we are using teflon thread tape to keep the glow plug fitting tight, and there has been some concern expressed about the diesel fuel disolving that, or the heat causing it to degrade? We have seen one person at the National Rainbow Gathering who had a glow plug installed in a similar way (except we threaded it in, and he's got it JB Welded!). This is where we got the idea, but I am interested in any input anyone has in this concept. Anyway, thank you so much! Cheers, Joshua __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM
[biofuel] Anything into oil!
Hi, Very new to this type of communication so not even sure if this is how you post a message. Unless I did it wrong I typed in several searches for thermal depolymerization (big words for breaking down carbon based materials into OIL!!! and other products) and I could not find one message talking about this world changing technology!! This machine sounds like it can work miracles, i.e. if 100 lbs of municipal liquid waste is poured in one end 26 pounds oil, 9 pounds gas, 8 lbs carbon and mineral solids, and 57 lbs water come out the other end!! If we used this to clean up our own waste it would be great but it does so much more!! It is in our best interest to know as much about this process as possible. If we could have one of these machines at the municipal level it could truly make the world a better place. Check this site http://www.changingworldtech.com/home.html I would appreciate hearing your comments and thanks 4 your time, John = www.GrowYourOwnFood.com Affordable Hydroponic Systems __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] inline glow plug for SVO heating?
Erik Lane wrote: i would be worried about that glow plug getting too hot for sure! i think that they draw about 9-12 amps per plug, and that's a lot of current to go thru a dimmer switch. if it's a dimmer from a house circuit i suspect that it wouldn't hold up. that kind of current is equivalent to something like 1000-1500 watts load on a 120V circuit. (it's the amps that's the problem in sizing electrics, in case you don't know.) i doubt that a normal dimmer is rated that high. Your typical triac phase-shaping dimmer will not work on DC, this can't be what they're using. If it turns out that they need a control, I could make a simple one. and if you want to see how hot a glow plug will get then you can hook a positive wire from the battery to the wire terminal and holding it in a pair of pliers ground the case to some bare metal on the vehicle. it doesn't take long at all for that thing to very literally GLOW! they get red and even white hot. according to this page: http://www.forparts.com/bosglowplugs.htm 120 watts on the small surface area of a glow plug is probably too much for oil. I'm guessing about 30 watts would be decent. -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Oil Stove thingy
On 2004-07-17 Todd wrote: Beats me exactly as to what type of steel composition the pre-heater is. Don't think it so much matters as much as the mechanical design. Walk into a store that distributes those ventless kerosene heaters and you'll have more than ample opportunity to see exactly what the general dimensions/design is. Todd Swearingen And bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First off I know NOTHING about such things, although the idea of going into a store that deals with kero stoves is good and you would more than likely be able to simply buy a spare element and then adapt it to your application, no ? Problemo solvo'd :) Like I said, I know nothing about it but thought I'd take a whack at it. Aren't most of those things aluminium or an aluminium/magnesium mix ? L. Yeah thanks for the advice guys but these stoves haven't been sold here for 30 years, ever since kerosene got taxed out of the market, in fact my local gas station and hardware store don't even know where to order it from anymore, the nearest to it is lamp oil at $3 litre which is still cheaper than the gas station guy remembers kerosene became. So that is why I was wondering if anyone knew what the pre-heater is made of so I could maybe make something up to fit my 'Turk burner' experiments. Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil Stove thingy About half way down the page at http://www.kumastoves.com/oil_stoves.html there is a picture of the burning centre of the stove looking very much like a Turk burner but at the very centre there is a cylindrical mesh does anyone know what it is, what it does and what its made of? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Anything into oil!
Hey John, Thanks for this website. I've been fascinated by this stuff for awhile now, but I can't ever to seem anything on it other than fluff. What, for instance, is the energy balance on a barrel of oil made from municipal waste? I may not have good sources, but it always seems that when questions come up, the revolutionary depolymerization solution comes to an end. On Jul 21, 2004, at 10:03 PM, John Walston wrote: Hi, Very new to this type of communication so not even sure if this is how you post a message. Unless I did it wrong I typed in several searches for thermal depolymerization (big words for breaking down carbon based materials into OIL!!! and other products) and I could not find one message talking about this world changing technology!! This machine sounds like it can work miracles, i.e. if 100 lbs of municipal liquid waste is poured in one end 26 pounds oil, 9 pounds gas, 8 lbs carbon and mineral solids, and 57 lbs water come out the other end!! If we used this to clean up our own waste it would be great but it does so much more!! It is in our best interest to know as much about this process as possible. If we could have one of these machines at the municipal level it could truly make the world a better place. Check this site http://www.changingworldtech.com/home.html I would appreciate hearing your comments and thanks 4 your time, John = www.GrowYourOwnFood.com Affordable Hydroponic Systems __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Lyle Estill V.P. Stuff Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop 919-545-2551 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Anything into oil!
Hello John Hi, Very new to this type of communication so not even sure if this is how you post a message. Unless I did it wrong I typed in several searches for thermal depolymerization (big words for breaking down carbon based materials into OIL!!! and other products) and I could not find one message talking about this world changing technology!! This machine sounds like it can work miracles, i.e. if 100 lbs of municipal liquid waste is poured in one end 26 pounds oil, 9 pounds gas, 8 lbs carbon and mineral solids, and 57 lbs water come out the other end!! If we used this to clean up our own waste it would be great but it does so much more!! It is in our best interest to know as much about this process as possible. If we could have one of these machines at the municipal level it could truly make the world a better place. Check this site http://www.changingworldtech.com/home.html I would appreciate hearing your comments and thanks 4 your time, Yes, but... Complete beneficial re-use of waste or low-value material? I think it depends who's doing the valuing. This doesn't encourage: A system of environmental compliance, reducing liability and contaminants. It doesn't sound like it's primarily the environment that's to be complied with. The success of converting waste and low value streams into a bio-derived oil will greatly extend our worldwide reserves of fuel-derived distributed electricity generation on a cost-effective basis. It will revolutionize renewable energy, change the way in which organic materials are utilized and provide a platform for more reasonable sustainable development. According the the environment, the way in which organic materials are utilized is that they are recycled back into the soil to maintain the supply of humus and the reserves of soil fertility. This is the essential basis of sustainable development (sustainable anything) and of renewable energy. There is no waste. (I don't understand how sustainable development can be more reasonable - it's either sustainable or it's not.) A renewable energy technology based on utilising organic wastes that did not first take account of the real use and purpose of organic material (low-value or not), the maintenance of soil fertility, would soon be using up the very resource on which it depends. Not renewable and not sustainable. The idea that soil fertility and crop growth can be sustained without organic waste recycling back to the soil has long been a very hollow one. Trying to postpone the inevitable day by using fertilisers instead only hastens the collapse, and is heavily dependent on fossil fuels anyway - what such technologies as this would claim to be replacing. Municipal sewage systems are not sustainable, and diverting some of the material or effluent or sludge to fuel or energy use won't make them more sustainable, though it might limit the damage somewhat. In the same way, diverting the pig manure lagoons at factory farms via a similar technology discussed here recently won't make factory farming any more sustainable. It could however ameliorate some of the continuing waste and damage during a transition to more sustainable production methods. For more ab this, please see this previous message: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/33716/ Converting Swine Manure to Oil Best wishes Keith John = www.GrowYourOwnFood.com Affordable Hydroponic Systems Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Oil Stove thingy
Hello Go Some comments below. On 2004-07-17 Todd wrote: Beats me exactly as to what type of steel composition the pre-heater is. Don't think it so much matters as much as the mechanical design. Walk into a store that distributes those ventless kerosene heaters and you'll have more than ample opportunity to see exactly what the general dimensions/design is. Todd Swearingen And bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First off I know NOTHING about such things, although the idea of going into a store that deals with kero stoves is good and you would more than likely be able to simply buy a spare element and then adapt it to your application, no ? Problemo solvo'd :) Like I said, I know nothing about it but thought I'd take a whack at it. Aren't most of those things aluminium or an aluminium/magnesium mix ? L. Yeah thanks for the advice guys but these stoves haven't been sold here for 30 years, ever since kerosene got taxed out of the market, in fact my local gas station and hardware store don't even know where to order it from anymore, the nearest to it is lamp oil at $3 litre which is still cheaper than the gas station guy remembers kerosene became. So that is why I was wondering if anyone knew what the pre-heater is made of so I could maybe make something up to fit my 'Turk burner' experiments. Is it a pre-heater or a post-heater? Anyway, I've been interested in them too, for some time, and for the same reasons, but not just for Turk burners and so on, also for more efficient woodstoves, especially IDD stoves - inverted downdraft gasifier charcoal-producing stoves. Like this one: http://journeytoforever.org/teststove.html See also: http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgasstoves Wood fires that fit - Appropriate technology: Journey to Forever Trouble is, they're subtle. The pre-heaters, that is (well, IDD stoves too, and Turk burners). These kero stoves are still widely used in Japan, and elsewhere, and the companies put a lot of know-how into the burner design. This one has that advantage, that one does this. I haven't learnt much from these pre-heaters because I just don't understad too many of the basic principles, and they're not immediately obvious. It takes a lot of tinkering. Anyway, I have two of them in front of me here, burners from different stoves. These are all wick stoves, circular wicks. These two burners both have three concentric cylinders. The outer one is made of thin glass, next, about 1cm further in, is a steel cylinder, thin steel, perforated, and inside that by another 1cm is the third cylinder, also thin steel, and also perforated. The outer steel cylinders both have bigger and more holes than the inner ones. On top is a flat plate on one, two of them, one above the other, on the other one, with different arrangements of concentric holes for the exhaust to escape. The bigger of the two (which puts more heat outwards and less upwards than the other) also has another plate lower down inside the inner steel cylinder, also perforated. Actually there are two of them or perhaps three, depending how you count. I don't think that helps you much, I'm sorry. I could take some pictures I suppose but I don't think that would help much either. What you can see is that there are careful channellings of the gases to where they'll be exposed to this much or that much heat before they reach the top. Dr Tom Reed, the doyen of the woodstoves gang over at CREST (REPP), once said they'd mastered about 25% of the science of these things. I think that's about right, and considering these kero burners had helped to bring me to much the same conclusion (well, it's not a conclusion, it's a progress report). It's one reason we moved to investigating how kerosene cookers could be made to use biofuels, whether biodiesel (easier but less available at local level) or WVO (much more difficult but more easily available). Not that we've abandoned work with woodstoves. Nor with Turk burners. But I just don't know how to apply this pre-heater technology. We have thought of trying for some sort of collaboration with one of the companies that makes these burners, but haven't got that far yet. Anyway, interested to hear of your progress with Turk burners. Good luck! Best wishes Keith Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil Stove thingy About half way down the page at http://www.kumastoves.com/oil_stoves.html there is a picture of the burning centre of the stove looking very much like a Turk burner but at the very centre there is a cylindrical mesh does anyone know what it is, what it does and what its made of? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
[biofuel] Re: Dutch biodiesel brewers
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Frag, Got my Lye at Boerenbond/Welkoop and my methanol at a farmacist the methanol I'm not sure about the purity it says nothing on the bottle. The lye is 99%. Good luck What does it say on it? i could only find pool stuff (small boerenbond department here) only have calsium there.. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil Stove thingy
Yeah thanks for the advice guys but these stoves haven't been sold here for 30 years, ever since kerosene got taxed out of the market, in fact my local gas station and hardware store don't even know where to order it from anymore, the nearest to it is lamp oil at $3 litre which is still cheaper than the gas station guy remembers kerosene became. There is, of course, always the internet as an acquisition source. Plug radiant kerosene heater into Google and everything you're looking for will unfold magically in front of you. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Go Hoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 2:20 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil Stove thingy On 2004-07-17 Todd wrote: Beats me exactly as to what type of steel composition the pre-heater is. Don't think it so much matters as much as the mechanical design. Walk into a store that distributes those ventless kerosene heaters and you'll have more than ample opportunity to see exactly what the general dimensions/design is. Todd Swearingen And bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First off I know NOTHING about such things, although the idea of going into a store that deals with kero stoves is good and you would more than likely be able to simply buy a spare element and then adapt it to your application, no ? Problemo solvo'd :) Like I said, I know nothing about it but thought I'd take a whack at it. Aren't most of those things aluminium or an aluminium/magnesium mix ? L. Yeah thanks for the advice guys but these stoves haven't been sold here for 30 years, ever since kerosene got taxed out of the market, in fact my local gas station and hardware store don't even know where to order it from anymore, the nearest to it is lamp oil at $3 litre which is still cheaper than the gas station guy remembers kerosene became. So that is why I was wondering if anyone knew what the pre-heater is made of so I could maybe make something up to fit my 'Turk burner' experiments. Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil Stove thingy About half way down the page at http://www.kumastoves.com/oil_stoves.html there is a picture of the burning centre of the stove looking very much like a Turk burner but at the very centre there is a cylindrical mesh does anyone know what it is, what it does and what its made of? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: inline glow plug for SVO heating?
Another thing to think about is if the glow plug gets hot and carbonizes some veg oil on it, then the carbon sloughs off and heads into your IP. If I were doing it, I would place the glow plug heater so that the vegoil flows through the glow plug heater, then through your filter before it hits the IP. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Joshua [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for your input. Since the fuel going through the glow plug will be flowing, and never remaining stationary, we are hoping that it doesn't get too hot to melt the lines. We also have a temperature sensor installed similarly in the fuel line (with a brass T and rubber hose nipples) about six inches past the glow plug T to monitor the temperature of the fuel. We are, howerver, considering putting the glow plug and sensor actually in the metal fuel line just after the last fuel filter, just before it goes into the injection pump to make sure that our reading is as accurate as possible. However, this is a rather more difficult place to mount it, as those are fitted metal lines, and flared fittings and all that jazz. So where it is now is much easier, and it is the last place the fuel goes before it is entirely in metal lines. Rubber lines are rather easier to work with. Does anyone have any notion of the optimum temperature for vegetable oil to reach where it's viscosity is exactly that of diesel fuel? We have blown one injection pump running on SVO and since been mixing it with about 20% diesel to avoid that, cause the injection pump costs $500. As for the dimmer switch, it is not a household one, but an automotive 12v one with three settings, and we have that run after the lighted switch, so both have to be on for power to reach the glow plug. Anyway, we also discovered today that our head is cracked, so we'll be fiddling a while longer while getting a replacement, so please, suggestions, criticism, whatever ya all got! ;) Love and Light! Joshua Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: inline glow plug for SVO heating?
Your typical triac phase-shaping dimmer will not work on DC, this can't be what they're using. If it turns out that they need a control, I could make a simple one. Quite right, we're using an automotive dimmer for a heater... it's great, even says HEAT on it. ;) We haven't actually tested it yet, though, so we're not sure how low it'll get the glow plug. 120 watts on the small surface area of a glow plug is probably too much for oil. I'm guessing about 30 watts would be decent. I'm not exactly sure about watts, but we've got it run through a 20 amp fuse, though we might put a 10 amp on there. Cheers, Joshua Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: inline glow plug for SVO heating?
Joshua wrote: Your typical triac phase-shaping dimmer will not work on DC, this can't be what they're using. If it turns out that they need a control, I could make a simple one. Quite right, we're using an automotive dimmer for a heater... it's great, even says HEAT on it. ;) We haven't actually tested it yet, though, so we're not sure how low it'll get the glow plug. 120 watts on the small surface area of a glow plug is probably too much for oil. I'm guessing about 30 watts would be decent. I'm not exactly sure about watts, but we've got it run through a 20 amp fuse, though we might put a 10 amp on there. Cheers, Joshua A 10 amp fuse means the current would have to stay somewhere below 13v * 10 amps = 130 watts. 20 amps would be less than 260 watts. Let us know how it works our for you. -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
