Re: [biofuel] Lumpy BD
Hello all, My last batches of BD were ok, but there whas more than 30% glyc at the end. Any idea what can cause that ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Lumpy BD Good day; I made a test batch of 20 liters the other day and when I checked it for quality using the method described at journeytoforever http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality it returned good fuel with clear and distinct seperation of unwashed fuel in less than 30 seconds. The problem is that when I poured out the BD into a bucket (as the glycerine had solidified at the bottom of the drum)it was lumpy, as if gelatine clumps were floating around in it. Is this due to the temp having dropped off during processing or perhaps incomplete reaction even though the quality test came back positive ? Any input ? Wash it and see. Let it settle first though, then decant it carefully into the wash vessel. Sorry if you've already gone ahead in the meantime. If so, please let us know the result. By the way, if you use KOH instead of NaOH the glycerine cocktail won't solidify, which you might find an advantage. Your processor's closed, no? - ie, unopenable. I'm sure you know this, but I'll say it anyway... Closed is usually taken to mean closed during processing so no fumes escape. Two types - those with lids and those with no lids, or sealed. We've no experience of sealed processors, but it seems to me it'd make solidified glyc more of a nuisance. Either way it'll be a nuisance if it gunks up the plumbing at the bottom of the tank. Best wishes Keith Thanks L. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SVO in diesel engines
Why would you produce extra oxygen ? Wouldn't a simple turbo (compressor) give any result ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Robert Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:03 AM Subject: [biofuel] SVO in diesel engines We are using a static medium sized diesel generating set fueled by waste vegetable oil, tallow and virgin rapeseed oil to produce electricity and provide space heating in a small commercial development. To obtain reliable combustion the engine is started on diesel oil and switched to SVO after reaching temperature. The combustion air is also modified by increasing the proportion of oxygen, which elevates the temperature in the chamber ensuring complete combustion of the bio-fuel. The system works reliably but the cost of generating oxygen is high. Does anyone have experience of running un-modified diesels on SVO and does any manufacturer warranty their engine for use with SVO? Many thanks Robert [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Extending storage life of biodiesel
Hello again, Dr. Jon Van Gerpen taught a course segment on the oxidation issue. He has charts that show a doubling of storage life of vegetable oil with an antioxidant. Most of these studies have been done on vegetable oil or lard to date, but should translate in some degree to biodiesel. The more effective stabilizers have chelators which help tie up free metals, such as copper that catalyze oxidation. The amount of antioxidant is more than a few ppm, I guess, since it is 0.01%, which translates to 100 ppm, as you say. This has been shown to reduce oxidation 20 fold. Americans are not so concerned with polymerization as are the Europeans, although I'm not sure that should be so. I don't know how these chemicals affect this lacquer effect. I was talking about measuring the peroxide content as a measure of oxidation. As with most technical details, there are various levels one can work with, and until my operation is in production, which is planned for by next spring, I intend to work on the basics: keep it dry, sell it fast, add some standard preservatives, inform your customers about how to handle it, and learn from experience. I wish someone else who is doing this right now was telling us how it all works, but we are still earlier in our learning process. Tom Leue In a message dated 7/26/04 2:09:20 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Tom, Lurch The most effective antioxidants for biodiesel are the same you find in breakfast cereal packaging, namely BHA and BHT.ÊÊ A mixture of the two works even better. Now you can buy premixed antioxidants from companies such as Kodak. It only takes a few ppm to make a dramatic impact on shelf life of biodiesel. For you natural granola types, citric acid can easily double the shelf life of biodiesel. Do you have any further information on this? Or have you tried it? In Europe, where the new Euro standard has tough Oxidation stability limits, people are using anti-oxidants specifically made for biodiesel, and they say the food additives, and even the edible oil anti-oxidants (usually synthetic vitamins) are not suitable. This is commercial-level stuff, usually sold by the IBC (intermediate bulk container - 1000 litres), it's expensive, and the manufacturers keep the formulas to themselves. It's usually added at 200-300 ppm volumetric. The anti-ox additive must be injected into the finished fuel right after production. You have about 8 hours to wash and dry before the anti-ox injection. The injection should be done without splashing. And obviously bubble-washing and bubble-drying are out, not just because of the time factor but because they both oxidise the fuel. The purpose of this isn't so much to increase storage life and deter biological activity as to prevent the cross-bridging and polymerisation caused by oxidation. Rapeseed oil is probably the most common feedstock there, polymerisation is said to be a concern with rapeseed oil, and it has a lower Iodine Value than America's soy oil does. Both are classed as semi-drying oils. The most effective method is to keep it in an airtight container. Biodiesel is also unstable in light. Keep it in a dark place. Also, dry biodiesel is far more stable. Maybe as far as biological activity is concerned, but I don't think water content has any effect on cross-bridging. If this is not possible, such as being in a standard fuel tank somewhere which must be vented, then the NBB recommends using the biodiesel within 6 months. If polymerisation is a concern, and I believe it is a concern, it will start to polymerise much sooner than that, especially if it's been bubble-washed, unless it's derived from low-Iodine Value feedstock or has been treated in time with a suitable antioxidant. These preservatives will make this last two to four times as long without serious oxidation. Hm. Again, do you have any references for this? You should also know that biodiesel made from recycled yellow grease lasts approximately twice as long as biodiesel made from virgin soy oil. I've heard that a couple of times and have never been able to track it down. Also I can't see why that should be so. Can you shed some further light on this? What quite do you means by lasts and shelf life? That it doesn't biodegrade as quickly? I'm not sure, but I suspect that sufficient citric acid to prevent oxidation and cross-bridging in semi-drying oils might result in problems meeting the Acid Value levels set in the standards. Best wishes Keith Addison Tom Leue In a message dated 7/24/04 5:09:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone had any experience using some inert gas such as nitrogen to prevent oxidation of stored biodiesel? Perhaps some sort of oxygen absorber? If there isn't any oxygen in contact with the biodiesel perhaps it would increase storage life.How might this affect algae growth? Lurch
Re: [biofuel] Re: Extending storage life of biodiesel
The citric acid needed is about 0.005%, or about 50 ppm. This is effective in combination with propyl gallate, another unknown chemical in my book. But I don't know how effective it is by itself, and I suspect it would take 4 to 10 times as much to achieve the same as the combination. This might throw off the acid value, and have to be neutralized. (Keith Addison) I don't know, but I'll put it on the list to be studied. Wouldn't it be easier to protect the fuel with dark, sealed containers, and just use it up? Tom Leue In a message dated 7/26/04 1:54:57 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is this a known factor and what are the volumes involved using citric acid as a stabilizer? (I am one of those granola types) Would a standard 20 or 60 liter tight head drum (poly)/carboy work for storage using the citric? And we are referring to B100 right ? thanks L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The most effective antioxidants for biodiesel are the same you find in breakfast cereal packaging, namely BHA and BHT.ÊÊ A mixture of the two works even better. Now you can buy premixed antioxidants from companies such as Kodak. It only takes a few ppm to make a dramatic impact on shelf life of biodiesel.ÊÊ For you natural granola types, citric acid can easily double the shelf life of biodiesel.ÊÊ The most effective method is to keep it in an airtight container. Also, dry biodiesel is far more stable.ÊÊ If this is not possible, such as being in a standard fuel tank somewhere which must be vented, then the NBB recommends using the biodiesel within 6 months.ÊÊ These preservatives will make this last two to four times as long without serious oxidation. You should also know that biodiesel made from recycled yellow grease lasts approximately twice as long as biodiesel made from virgin soy oil. Tom Leue In a message dated 7/24/04 5:09:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone had any experience using some inert gas such as nitrogen to prevent oxidation of stored biodiesel? Perhaps some sort of oxygen absorber? If there isn't any oxygen in contact with the biodiesel perhaps it would increase storage life.How might this affect algae growth? Lurch [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Price of Fuel
You have misinterpreted my chart. The $2.15 is for B100, the price for diesel fuel is $1.12 in Atlanta. Its hard to keep columns in an email document, but you need to straighten out the columns, of which there are four values given for each location: B100, B20, B02 and diesel fuel. Tom Leue In a message dated 7/25/04 11:29:33 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Tom, Thanks for explaining about this more, however, I'm still a bit confused about the numbers for my neck of the woods. As I mentioned, dino-diesel is fairly cheap here, ranging from $1.65 to $1.75 (taxes are included in these prices), those prices are in that range from Rockmart to Douglasville, which is 37 miles away.Maybe somewhere in Downtown Atlanta or along the Interstate Highway somewhere you will find dino-diesel at $2.15, if I'm reading your chart right, but not where I am. There is a Shell station here in Rockmart that sells High Sulfur diesel for off-road use (maybe for farm use too), it's a lot cheaper as I don't think it is taxed, but since I've never bought any, I don't know for sure. Also, Georgia has one of the lowest fuel tax in the USA. Respectfully, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More explanation: these prices are for fuels that are untaxed, and therefore the retail taxed fuel would be around 45¢ per gallon higher, depending on your state. Then too, these are wholesale prices, and the difference between the quoted price, plus tax, and the price at the pump represents the profit that the retailer is selling the fuel for.ÊÊ Generally you can count on 30 to 40¢ per gallon profit on diesel fuel, and somewhat higher on any biodiesel mix.ÊÊ When I say wholesale, I'm talking a minimum of 3000 gallons, and often 7500 gallon or so, a whole truckload Tom Leue In a message dated 7/24/04 4:48:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Tom, I couldn't make sense of your post because of the way it came up. Are you comparing the prices for dino diesel biodiesel? My reason for asking is that I live around 75 miles west of Atlanta GA, I know that the price of dino diesel between home work (Rockmart to Douglasville) $1.65 $1.75 (taxes included), I am not aware of any commercial distribution of biodiesel in my area. Also, gasoline ranges from $1.79 (regular) to $1.99 (premium) (taxes included) along my route as well. Respectfully yours, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to send this along earlier as an attachment, my bad. People still want this, so here is the market for the eastern part of the country and Canada. Sorry, I don't track the Western part. Tom Leue Latest update:Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê 7/22/04Ê Ê Note: No taxes included.Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê LocalityÊ Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê B-100Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê B-20Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê B-2Ê Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ Diesel Albany, NYÊ Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê $2.406Ê Ê Ê $1.403Ê Ê Ê $1.176Ê Ê Ê $1.151 Atlanta, GAÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.150Ê Ê Ê $1.337Ê Ê Ê $1.135Ê Ê Ê $1.112 Baltimore, MDÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.453Ê Ê Ê $1.380Ê Ê Ê $1.145Ê Ê Ê $1.117 Boston, MAÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.210Ê Ê Ê $1.311Ê Ê Ê $1.149Ê Ê Ê $1.132 Burlington, VTÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.150Ê Ê Ê $1.326Ê Ê Ê $1.154Ê Ê Ê $1.130 Charleston, WVÊ Ê Ê $2.408Ê Ê Ê $1.412Ê Ê Ê $1.184Ê Ê Ê $1.159 Columbia, SCÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.449Ê Ê Ê $1.387Ê Ê Ê $1.139Ê Ê Ê $1.116 Columbus, OHÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.225Ê Ê Ê $1.305Ê Ê Ê $1.104Ê Ê Ê $1.083 Des Moines, IAÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.414Ê Ê Ê $1.369Ê Ê Ê $1.152Ê Ê Ê $1.127 Dover, DEÊ Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê $2.150Ê Ê Ê $1.345Ê Ê Ê $1.161Ê Ê Ê $1.140 Indianapolis, INÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.150Ê Ê Ê $1.279Ê Ê Ê $1.092Ê Ê Ê $1.072 Jackson, MSÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.030Ê Ê Ê $1.304Ê Ê Ê $1.138Ê Ê Ê $1.120 Jacksonville, FLÊ Ê Ê $2.208Ê Ê Ê $1.354Ê Ê Ê $1.161Ê Ê Ê $1.140 Little Rock, ARÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.100Ê Ê Ê $1.317Ê Ê Ê $1.140Ê Ê Ê $1.120 Louisville, KYÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.050Ê Ê Ê $1.324Ê Ê Ê $1.158Ê Ê Ê $1.140 Manchester, NHÊ Ê Ê $2.226Ê Ê Ê $1.373Ê Ê Ê $1.179Ê Ê Ê $1.157 Miami, FLÊ Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê $2.100Ê Ê Ê $1.326Ê Ê Ê $1.151Ê Ê Ê $1.132 Minneapolis, MNÊ Ê Ê $2.074Ê Ê Ê $1.392Ê Ê Ê $1.188Ê Ê Ê $1.170 Nashville, TNÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.150Ê Ê Ê $1.339Ê Ê Ê $1.138Ê Ê Ê $1.117 New Orleans, LAÊ Ê Ê $2.400Ê Ê Ê $1.362Ê Ê Ê $1.126Ê Ê Ê $1.100 Newark/NYC, NJÊ Ê Ê $2.395Ê Ê Ê $1.394Ê Ê Ê $1.149Ê Ê Ê $1.124 Philadelphia, PAÊ Ê Ê $2.100Ê Ê Ê $1.352Ê Ê Ê $1.150Ê Ê Ê $1.130 Pittsburgh, PAÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.452Ê Ê Ê $1.359Ê Ê Ê $1.163Ê Ê Ê $1.137 Portland, MEÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.078Ê Ê Ê $1.380Ê Ê Ê $1.176Ê Ê Ê $1.158 Providence, RIÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.184Ê Ê Ê $1.367Ê Ê Ê $1.161Ê Ê Ê $1.145 Raleigh, NCÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.178Ê Ê Ê $1.343Ê Ê Ê $1.139Ê Ê Ê $1.121 Richmond, VAÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.150Ê Ê Ê $1.348Ê Ê Ê $1.150Ê Ê Ê $1.126 St. Louis, MOÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.218Ê Ê Ê $1.353Ê Ê Ê $1.163Ê Ê Ê $1.141 U.S. Average:Ê Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.224Ê Ê Ê $1.351Ê Ê Ê $1.151Ê Ê Ê $1.129 Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ Montreal, QCÊ Ê Ê Ê ÊÊ $2.119Ê Ê Ê $1.426Ê Ê Ê $1.191Ê Ê Ê $1.167 Ottawa, ONÊ Ê Ê Ê
Re: [biofuel] Rice husk ash
it'll be sent to a mill. Products are rice and bran, husks are waste. Should be FFTA. Unless they've found some by-product use for them there. Some straw-bale builders are using (unburnt!) rice husks for ceiling/attic insulation. It blows in like cellulose, and the high silica content makes it fairly fire-retardant. I've heard somebody mixed hulls into their 'mud' (earthen plaster) to seal the strawbale walls.For those who are interested, raw wool is another great insulator for ceilings/attics,but it doesn't blow in. US rice mills will generally want to give you large quantities (a dump truck full) but don't like to mess with smaller quantities when it comes to hulls. ...and that's more eco-trivia to fill your noggin... HeidiWD To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but also treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt, 1918 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: A conversation: Earth oil versus plant oil.
[Edited to change subject heading from Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 2262 to the thread title. PLEASE change the title when you auto-reply to a message in the Daily Digest. Nobody will read a message titled Re: Digest Number 2262, it confuses the threads and fouls up archives searches forever. Thankyou. List owner] It seems unlikely to me that the rich of the world will decide to stop dealing in energy because it has always made so much money for them. A sustainable world will likely be given to us by the same old corporations we have now. Sorry. Of course, we should not encourage this. In the competition between food and energy, it is sometimes possible to have your cake and eat it too. It is known that if a bushel of corn is fermented to produce alcohol, when the fermentation byproduct is fed to cattle, more growth is obtained than by feeding the original corn to them. As industrialized countries cut back on petroleum use, I am resigned to expect that other countries will emerge to consume the savings. I think this is partly good, as most of the world is currently starved for energy as in other ways. I believe we must find new fields to plant-- to make fuel from waste, including wood and crop waste, stop the use of petrofertilizers, and learn to sustainably /responsibly husband the oceans. My view is that energy use will continue to increase. We must find better sources besides fossil carbon. And, yes, it is all possible. I am working on it. Care to join me? See a separate post to follow on my diesel car. Ernie Rogers Keith Addison said, 1. There is NO WAY the current diesel consumption, petroleum consumption, or energy consumption of the industrialised nations can be or should be sustained. Merely substituting biofuels for fossil-fuels isn't even the beginning of an answer. A sustainable energy future requires great reductions of energy use, great improvements in energy efficiency, and decentralisation of supply to the local level, along with the judicious application of ALL available ready-to-use renewable energy technologies in combination as best fits local conditions. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] My view on diesel cars, and a notable event.
Hello, I am forwarding a message (at the bottom) that I posted on a private li st yesterday because it may have relevance with climate change. Virtually all large engines on earth are diesel engines-- all trucks, merchant ships, earth movers, tractors, trains, many mw-size power stations, but so far no aircraft. The reasons are practical and economic-- these engines produce the most power relative to fuel use and other costs. Diesel engines also have outstanding performance in giving the most power with least CO2. They do even better when running on biodiesel or low-carbon fuels such as LNG, for example in powering urban buses. A 20% to 30% reduction in GHG production from autos can be achieved just by using diesel engines in cars. The limited use of diesel cars in the U.S. and elsewhere is tied to emissions problems. It seems to me that the science on air pollution by diesel engines is in a confused state. Here's why. Diesel engines are presently designed and operated to achieve a balance between production of NOx, and HCs and particulates. If one allows more NOx, then HCs and particulates can be very low. If HCs and particulates are allowed to increase, then NOx can be very low. In the distant past, someone decided that NOx is a pollutant. This seems odd to me because at the same time, we extoll the production of NOx in the atmosphere by lightning for its essential role in nitrogen fixation and growth in plants. I think the reason that NOx was declared a pollutant is that it reacts with HCs in the atmosphere to produce smog, a very dangerous mixture in urban atmospheres. On the other hand, if all engines were lean-running diesels, there would be so little HCs in the atmosphere that smog formation would not occur. In conclusion, I think an effort is needed to straighten out the matter with diesel engines and NOx limits. Without NOx limits, very-lean-burning diesels could provide an immediate and substantial reduction in production of CO2 and other air pollutants. Below is an account of fuel economy being achieved by a diesel car. I think this auto efficiency is far above what is being achieved with the Toyota Prius or other hybrid cars. Ernie Rogers Ernie said (July 24), Many of you know that I just made a trip to Alaska with my grandson, in a 2003 Beetle TDI diesel. We achieved a fuel efficiency of about 115 person-miles per gallon of fuel. I think that would compare favorably with competing transportation methods. Here is my discovery, made yesterday and today while driving homeward-- 1. Fuel purchased yesterday in Edmonton (Shell) gave 56 miles per gallon. 2. BUT fuel purchased today in Idaho Falls (Phillips, from Utah refinery) gave 63 miles per gallon. The difference here is much larger than the expected variation due to systematic or random errors. The fuel from the more southern station and refinery gives 12% more mileage than the more northern fuel. Travel conditions were about as much alike as possible, good highways and nearly perfect, windless weather. I think the fuel performance difference is traceable to differences in fuel composition, and resulting difference in energy density. This situation closely parallels differences seen between summer and winter diesel formulas. I haven't called the fuel producers, but I suspect that the northern fuel has a higher hydrogen content, in other words, they blended in some #1 diesel. This lower fuel performance was seen over all the fuel purchased in Alaska and northwest Canada. The ASTM spec for diesel fuel probably has a full explanation. I probably should dig the spec out of my files and see what it says about this By the way, pretty good fuel economy, wouldn't you say? (Trip speed was carefully controlled to 100 km, or 62 miles, per hour.) And, air emissions are very low (based upon my nose measurement) since I had the EGR turned all the way down (to the legal limit). Ernie Rogers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] How Do You Figure Ethanol Octane?
Terry Wilhelm wrote: Does anyone know of an equation for figuring the octane levels in different proofs of alcohol? Thanks Not exactly what you wanted, but informative: http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem99/chem99527.htm Raises octane 2 to 3 points for 10% addition to gasoline http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/english/Et/Ethanol.html (R+M)/2 varies between 96-113 http://www.ec.gc.ca/transport/publications/ethgas/ethgas4.htm I couldn't actually find a formula. Do I get a Revenoor discount now? ;) -- Martin Klingensmith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Rice husk ash
Are the rice hulls the same as the germ ? James On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema wrote: it'll be sent to a mill. Products are rice and bran, husks are waste. Should be FFTA. Unless they've found some by-product use for them there. Some straw-bale builders are using (unburnt!) rice husks for ceiling/attic insulation. It blows in like cellulose, and the high silica content makes it fairly fire-retardant. I've heard somebody mixed hulls into their 'mud' (earthen plaster) to seal the strawbale walls.For those who are interested, raw wool is another great insulator for ceilings/attics,but it doesn't blow in. US rice mills will generally want to give you large quantities (a dump truck full) but don't like to mess with smaller quantities when it comes to hulls. ...and that's more eco-trivia to fill your noggin... HeidiWD To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but also treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt, 1918 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=121297097] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fords biodiesel
Thanks also Zac. Your question about my pH meter can be answered as follows: I looked for and found one I liked on eBay. One with RS-232 so I can record the results of each batch along the way to completion and for proof of quality when I enter the commercial world and people's diesel engines are subject to my care. Detail below: Oakton pH100 series with RS-232 output, model # 54X002608, manufactured by EUTECH Instruments of Singapore. I paid about $200USD for it. It looks like a multimeter with a probe that measures pH and temperature. It works very well with BD and my backyard pool. I have calibrated it for values below and above the desired pH 7.0. Phil Zac wrote: One question: what are you using to measure the pH? -- - Philip B, Bechtel The earth is but one country- - AARDSYS,LLC and mankind it's citizens. - - (716) 510-6362 -- Baha'u'llah- - [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.us.bahai.org - Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] using pool ph meter
Here in a local store they are selling pool tritation meters (2 small bekers , a scale etc) is that sable for biodiesel? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] DUBYA aint texan nor is his dad
Instead of criticizing, the rest of you should be helping us find a way out of this mess before it's too late for all of us. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness -ö Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776 In other words as a citizen of yoUSAh I'll take the Democrats over the Neo-Conservative right-wing extremist Good Old Petroleum GOP party whom according to Little George Dubya calls them, The haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my base. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] ethanol use
Hi chaps and lasses Why can't I use methalated spirits in my petrol engine? Is there any reason other than it been more expensive than petrol? When I looked at what makes up meths. I found out it contains about 90% ethanol and about 5% methanol. Could I get away with using meths, could anyone answer this for me please. Thanks Craig Emmerick http://152.107.42.100/RocketSeed/mail/433a313a313832303039363a323236313a2d323a3131 DISCLAIMER : Volkswagen of South Africa (Pty) Ltd Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. No liability shall attach whatsoever to VWSA from this communication except where the sender is acting on specific authority of VWSA, such authority being public record and acknowledged by VWSA by nature of the employee's functions. This document may in no way be photocopied, printed, scanned or electronically duplicated for any purposes other than that for which it was originally intended. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication, please discard this message and notify VWSA immediately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: A conversation: Earth oil versus plant oil.
Hello Ernie Please note: [Edited to change subject heading from Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 2262 to the thread title. PLEASE change the title when you auto-reply to a message in the Daily Digest. Nobody will read a message titled Re: Digest Number 2262, it confuses the threads and fouls up archives searches forever. Thankyou. List owner] That said... It seems unlikely to me that the rich of the world will decide to stop dealing in energy because it has always made so much money for them. A sustainable world will likely be given to us by the same old corporations we have now. Sorry. Of course, we should not encourage this. Take one step back. Current levels of energy use are a symptom of unsustainability, not the cause of it. The cause, as of the other symptoms, is... the rich of the world and the same old corporations. This is one of the many focuses of the Biofuel list, much has been posted about it by many members, the list archives is a good educational resource on the subject. Before someone gets silly about it, as has happened before, that does NOT mean that anyone here is against profit, against wealth even, or even necessarily against corporations. We are against greed, against exploitation and manipulation, against injustice and waste. Small-scale capitalism works out fine, but as scale increases the departure from real capitalism becomes more pronounced---profits are privatized, but costs are socialized. The attendant repair and maintenance are left to succeeding generations if possible, if not, to present low and middle income taxpayers. - Tvoivozhd See Credo, at the end of the page: http://journeytoforever.org/community.html Community development: Journey to Forever ... there is enough for everybody except the greedy. It's not just negative either, there's at least as much in the archives, and all the time, on what the list stands *for*, as well as against, and it translates into action and accomplishment, not just talk. In the competition between food and energy, it is sometimes possible to have your cake and eat it too. It is ALWAYS possible - but not if you're greedy and wasteful, and not if you don't understand how nature arranges things so that soils can produce crops. For all their science, corporations such as Monsanto, Cargill, Dow, ADM, Syngenta, do not understand that, and it's not in their interests to do so. But then these are greedy and exploitative corporations that do not qualify for the human and citizenship rights they've purloined, at everyone else's expense, any more than Big Oil qualifies for such rights. Not good citizens. Not citizens at all. Monstrous imposters. It is known that if a bushel of corn is fermented to produce alcohol, when the fermentation byproduct is fed to cattle, more growth is obtained than by feeding the original corn to them. That is well known, and often neglected. You swap the carbohydrates for increased protein levels, and it's a real bargain. However, you could be making a mistake in viewing the corn as food. It seems you did not read the links I included with the bit from my post that you've quoted below. Here they are again - if you're interested in this subject you should read them: Biofuels - Food or Fuel? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_food.html See also: http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1395/ How much fuel can we grow? http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1801/ Re: Biofuels hold key to future of British farming As industrialized countries cut back on petroleum use, I am resigned to expect that other countries will emerge to consume the savings. I think this is partly good, as most of the world is currently starved for energy as in other ways. I believe we must find new fields to plant-- to make fuel from waste, including wood and crop waste, stop the use of petrofertilizers, and learn to sustainably /responsibly husband the oceans. There's much more to it. See the last two links above. As for husbanding the oceans, indeed yes, but before we can learn that we'll have to learn to stop fouling them and pillaging them. My view is that energy use will continue to increase. We must find better sources besides fossil carbon. And, yes, it is all possible. I am working on it. Care to join me? See a separate post to follow on my diesel car. I think it's you that's joined us, we've been here all along. Whichever, welcome! Best wishes Keith Ernie Rogers Keith Addison said, 1. There is NO WAY the current diesel consumption, petroleum consumption, or energy consumption of the industrialised nations can be or should be sustained. Merely substituting biofuels for fossil-fuels isn't even the beginning of an answer. A sustainable energy future requires great reductions of energy use, great improvements in energy efficiency, and decentralisation of supply to the local level, along with the judicious application of ALL available ready-to-use renewable energy
Re: [biofuel] Electricity from WVO and Rapeseed
Hi Kim The learning curve is much more difficult, ... and the unlearning curve can be even more difficult! due to the fact that you are going against the 'norm' and your neighbors tend to tell you that you are strange and weird, but once you get used to how things work, it is much less work. Definitely. And it gets better and better instead of worse and worse. My best teacher is Mother Nature and she does most of the work for you, if you let her. Man's work with nature that further's nature's aims is the work that rewards him the best, says the I Ching (which is to be forgiven for its non-inclusive language). The trouble with that is that it might not be so easy to perceive just what nature's aims are. It takes an open mind, or rather an empty one, free of preconceptions. Hence the steep unlearning curve. I could not have made it this far with out my second teacher, Keith. Thankyou dear Kim! The small farms section of journeytoforever is fabulous! Learning the value of weeds and other misconceptions will save you a great deal of work. In our humble view, that is much closer to the core of what Journey to Forever is all about, and to our hearts, than biodiesel is. Biofuels is just a sub-set. Regards Keith Bright Blessings, Kim At 03:52 PM 7/24/2004, you wrote: There are some good posts in the archives from real organic farmers doing this properly, with lower costs, equal or higher yields, better quality, and they're getting premium prices. One said they're laughing all the way to the bank. Sustainable methods are not less efficient, less productive, less profitable, or more difficult. Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Rice husk ash
Are the rice hulls the same as the germ ? No. From previous: Uhh, maybe I don't know what rice husks are -- I've always assumed they're some part of the plant that encases the rice grain, That's what they are. Aka rice hulls. and that I never see in my rice straw. No, you wouldn't. I doubt the rice is dehusked at the farm-level, it'll be sent to a mill. Products are rice and bran, husks are waste. Should be FFTA. Unless they've found some by-product use for them there. The germ is part of the seed, not part of its casing. Usually it is removed in polishing the rice seed (white rice, as opposed to brown rice, which still has the germ), in which case it's found in the bran. It is the germ that gives the bran its high oil content. Which we've discussed here before with you. James On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema wrote: it'll be sent to a mill. Products are rice and bran, husks are waste. Should be FFTA. Unless they've found some by-product use for them there. Some straw-bale builders are using (unburnt!) rice husks for ceiling/attic insulation. It blows in like cellulose, and the high silica content makes it fairly fire-retardant. I've heard somebody mixed hulls into their 'mud' (earthen plaster) to seal the strawbale walls.For those who are interested, raw wool is another great insulator for ceilings/attics,but it doesn't blow in. US rice mills will generally want to give you large quantities (a dump truck full) but don't like to mess with smaller quantities when it comes to hulls. If you're going to use it for building, a dump-truck might not be too much. Ashing it brings it down to about a quarter the volume. If you're more interested in smaller stuff than houses, like stoves, the mills will probably let you take whatever you want if you go there. ...and that's more eco-trivia to fill your noggin... Thankyou Heidi. regards Keith HeidiWD To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but also treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt, 1918 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] DUBYA aint texan nor is his dad
Hello Bryan While generally agreeing with you, I have to comment on the last bit: Instead of criticizing, the rest of you should be helping us find a way out of this mess before it's too late for all of us. You really think it's just criticising that goes on here, and has been going on here for a long time? Many list members from all over the world have posted news articles and analysis, they've discussed, amplified, argued... all just to criticise? You haven't been listening if you think that. From a recent post: Results of a recent PIPA/Knowledge Networks poll: - A 57% majority believed Iraq was either directly involved in carrying out the 9/11 attacks or had provided substantial support to al-Qaeda - 82% either said that experts mostly agree Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda or experts are evenly divided on the question - 45% believe that evidence that Iraq was supporting al Qaeda has been found - 60% believe that just before the war Iraq either had weapons of mass destruction or a major program for developing them - 65% said most experts say Iraq did have them or that experts are divided on the question - estimates of the number of US troop fatalities in Iraq varied widely - 59% were unaware that the majority of world public opinion is opposed to the US war with Iraq - asked how many nuclear weapons the U.S. has, the median estimate was 200 (the actual number is 6,000) These beliefs are closely correlated with intentions to vote for Bush. Other polls have similar findings, and there's no doubt that they're accurate. What you see as criticism that doesn't help you is in fact an active and positive effort to help, presenting information, views, angles that most Americans are unaware of or simply don't have access to. Often it's met with hostility, vituperation and rejection, but often not. Pundits with senior posts at US journalism schools and some US media commentators like describing how so many Americans are side-stepping the narrow offerings of the US mainstream media and going to the Internet for their information, often citing resources like this list. The more Pollyanna-ish among them see this trend as marking the end of media spin and media domination. Well, maybe that'll help land them another research grant, but don't hold yer breath. Beyond this information aspect, what exactly do you think we're all doing here? DOING, note, not just talking? It ALL helps. Again, if you don't see that you not only haven't been listening, you've had your eyes shut. Every gallon of biodiesel an American or anyone else makes as a result of what they find here or at Journey to Forever or elsewhere helps directly - and it helps even more if it awakens them to the implications of fuel independence for a lot of other things, including their own empowerment. Also, I think your seeing it as just criticism is perhaps a bit telling. Non-Americans see that response as a symptom of the extreme polarisation of US society that makes the problems you describe so much more difficult to solve, and has made advancing them so much easier. But try to discuss these problems and too many people lash out - you're criticising America, you're just an America-basher, keep your US-hating left-wing liberal vomit to yourself. Label and dismiss, sight unseen, contents unread. Are you falling for this line too, Bryan, through sheer osmosis, though you disagree with it? Let's take a case in point. What too many Americans are saying now, without any real examination of it, is that they want to use biofuels instead of dino-fuels because I don't want my driving habit to put money into the pockets of terrorist nations or something like that. (That's a mild version.) We've had it here too. I get it offlist all the time from people who've visited the Biodiesel section at the Journey to Forever website. Here's one response: What do you want your driving habit to support? The massive fossil-fuel wastage of industrialised agriculture in the US? And whence do you think any link with oil and Islamist terrorism arose in the first place? - as opposed to any other kind of fundamentalist terrorism? - the Christian or Zionist or Christian Zionist fundamentalist terrorism so many in the world now point a finger at for instance? How would you go about getting your driving habit to support perhaps a real Washington energy and foreign policy, as opposed to blowback-fraught backing (to put it very kindly) for Big Oil no matter what? How could it support any real initiatives to start undoing all the damage that that's caused over the last 50 years? Not very popular questions, huh? Sorry about that, but so many Americans have been promoting biofuels on the basis of breaking US dependence on foreign oil, especially Middle East oil, especially Arab oil, often with some downright ugly racism involved, and that even from purported environmental groups that definitely should know
[biofuel] What engine to get?
I am looking for a cheap but good diesel engine to put into my 93 Ford Explorer XLT. Anyone have any ideas as to what I can get which will work with little to no modification for SVO? Thanks! Stone Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Price of Fuel
Hi Tom, That explains everything quite clearly. Charts can be a bit cranky sometimes. That would make the dino diesel prices here more along what you stated. Do you have specific info as to where in the Atlanta area one can aquire some B-100 in case I get asked??? Sorry for seemingly being a bit thick. Respectfully yours, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have misinterpreted my chart. The $2.15 is for B100, the price for diesel fuel is $1.12 in Atlanta. Its hard to keep columns in an email document, but you need to straighten out the columns, of which there are four values given for each location: B100, B20, B02 and diesel fuel. Tom Leue In a message dated 7/25/04 11:29:33 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Tom, Thanks for explaining about this more, however, I'm still a bit confused about the numbers for my neck of the woods. As I mentioned, dino-diesel is fairly cheap here, ranging from $1.65 to $1.75 (taxes are included in these prices), those prices are in that range from Rockmart to Douglasville, which is 37 miles away.Maybe somewhere in Downtown Atlanta or along the Interstate Highway somewhere you will find dino-diesel at $2.15, if I'm reading your chart right, but not where I am. There is a Shell station here in Rockmart that sells High Sulfur diesel for off-road use (maybe for farm use too), it's a lot cheaper as I don't think it is taxed, but since I've never bought any, I don't know for sure. Also, Georgia has one of the lowest fuel tax in the USA. Respectfully, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More explanation: these prices are for fuels that are untaxed, and therefore the retail taxed fuel would be around 45¢ per gallon higher, depending on your state. Then too, these are wholesale prices, and the difference between the quoted price, plus tax, and the price at the pump represents the profit that the retailer is selling the fuel for. Generally you can count on 30 to 40¢ per gallon profit on diesel fuel, and somewhat higher on any biodiesel mix. When I say wholesale, I'm talking a minimum of 3000 gallons, and often 7500 gallon or so, a whole truckload Tom Leue In a message dated 7/24/04 4:48:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Tom, I couldn't make sense of your post because of the way it came up. Are you comparing the prices for dino diesel biodiesel? My reason for asking is that I live around 75 miles west of Atlanta GA, I know that the price of dino diesel between home work (Rockmart to Douglasville) $1.65 $1.75 (taxes included), I am not aware of any commercial distribution of biodiesel in my area. Also, gasoline ranges from $1.79 (regular) to $1.99 (premium) (taxes included) along my route as well. Respectfully yours, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to send this along earlier as an attachment, my bad. People still want this, so here is the market for the eastern part of the country and Canada. Sorry, I don't track the Western part. Tom Leue Latest update:7/22/04 Note: No taxes included. LocalityB-100B-20B-2 Diesel Albany, NY$2.406 $1.403 $1.176 $1.151 Atlanta, GA $2.150 $1.337 $1.135 $1.112 Baltimore, MD $2.453 $1.380 $1.145 $1.117 Boston, MA $2.210 $1.311 $1.149 $1.132 Burlington, VT $2.150 $1.326 $1.154 $1.130 Charleston, WV $2.408 $1.412 $1.184 $1.159 Columbia, SC $2.449 $1.387 $1.139 $1.116 Columbus, OH $2.225 $1.305 $1.104 $1.083 Des Moines, IA $2.414 $1.369 $1.152 $1.127 Dover, DE$2.150 $1.345 $1.161 $1.140 Indianapolis, IN $2.150 $1.279 $1.092 $1.072 Jackson, MS $2.030 $1.304 $1.138 $1.120 Jacksonville, FL $2.208 $1.354 $1.161 $1.140 Little Rock, AR $2.100 $1.317 $1.140 $1.120 Louisville, KY $2.050 $1.324 $1.158 $1.140 Manchester, NH $2.226 $1.373 $1.179 $1.157 Miami, FL$2.100 $1.326 $1.151 $1.132 Minneapolis, MN $2.074 $1.392 $1.188 $1.170 Nashville, TN $2.150 $1.339 $1.138 $1.117 New Orleans, LA $2.400 $1.362 $1.126 $1.100 Newark/NYC, NJ $2.395 $1.394 $1.149 $1.124 Philadelphia, PA $2.100 $1.352 $1.150 $1.130 Pittsburgh, PA $2.452 $1.359 $1.163 $1.137 Portland, ME $2.078 $1.380 $1.176 $1.158 Providence, RI $2.184 $1.367 $1.161 $1.145 Raleigh, NC
Re: [biofuel] Extending storage life of biodiesel
Hi Tom, I was wondering if Muriatic acid can be used as an anti oxidant as well as to help break an emulsion. I used about a table spoon on 5 gallons of emulsification, and it worked great, but I don't know if it will be detrimental to the engine. Be unto others a wish-granting Jewel -The Dalai-Llama jamie merkle 617 969 2489 [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electricity from WVO and Rapeseed
Greetings Keith, The unlearning curve, h, well I used to live in a downtown highrise condo in a city of 3/4 of a million, so I did not have much farm knowledge to unlearn. I guess I am lucky. I just came home from a session of being laughed at. My neighbor has an AI center and told me that Galloway cows are goofy, but that since I am strange, we should fit together well. He has no idea what I mean when I speak of grass fed genetics and quotes his gross price for his black angus. I don't think he liked it when I asked how much it cost to raise one, since I am sure my bottom line will be just as pretty as his and I don't work as hard or damage the Earth. He did admit that my strictly grass fed cows do look healthy, so that is something. He told me I was going to starve those poor cows if I didn't bring in the fertilizer truck. I have earth worms on my land and that is all I need. He has promised to kiss my butt on main street if I can sell a calf from one of my cows for $1200. I would like to win that bet.evil grin Thanks for the chance to vent and for the encouragement to continue in trying to build a truely sustainable farm and life. Bright Blessings, Kim At 02:27 AM 7/27/2004, you wrote: Hi Kim The learning curve is much more difficult, ... and the unlearning curve can be even more difficult! due to the fact that you are going against the 'norm' and your neighbors tend to tell you that you are strange and weird, but once you get used to how things work, it is much less work. Definitely. And it gets better and better instead of worse and worse. My best teacher is Mother Nature and she does most of the work for you, if you let her. Man's work with nature that further's nature's aims is the work that rewards him the best, says the I Ching (which is to be forgiven for its non-inclusive language). The trouble with that is that it might not be so easy to perceive just what nature's aims are. It takes an open mind, or rather an empty one, free of preconceptions. Hence the steep unlearning curve. I could not have made it this far with out my second teacher, Keith. Thankyou dear Kim! The small farms section of journeytoforever is fabulous! Learning the value of weeds and other misconceptions will save you a great deal of work. In our humble view, that is much closer to the core of what Journey to Forever is all about, and to our hearts, than biodiesel is. Biofuels is just a sub-set. Regards Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] My view on diesel cars, and a notable event.
Hello Ernie Interesting forward, thanks. Some comments on NOx etc. below. Hello, I am forwarding a message (at the bottom) that I posted on a private li st yesterday because it may have relevance with climate change. Virtually all large engines on earth are diesel engines-- all trucks, merchant ships, earth movers, tractors, trains, many mw-size power stations, but so far no aircraft. The reasons are practical and economic-- these engines produce the most power relative to fuel use and other costs. Diesel engines also have outstanding performance in giving the most power with least CO2. They do even better when running on biodiesel or low-carbon fuels such as LNG, for example in powering urban buses. A 20% to 30% reduction in GHG production from autos can be achieved just by using diesel engines in cars. The limited use of diesel cars in the U.S. and elsewhere is tied to emissions problems. Mainly in the US, and, more recently at some places in Japan (which is still way ahead of the US in all hings diesel). See: Do diesels have a future? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html It seems to me that the science on air pollution by diesel engines is in a confused state. Here's why. Diesel engines are presently designed and operated to achieve a balance between production of NOx, and HCs and particulates. If one allows more NOx, then HCs and particulates can be very low. If HCs and particulates are allowed to increase, then NOx can be very low. In the distant past, someone decided that NOx is a pollutant. This seems odd to me because at the same time, we extoll the production of NOx in the atmosphere by lightning for its essential role in nitrogen fixation and growth in plants. I think the reason that NOx was declared a pollutant is that it reacts with HCs in the atmosphere to produce smog, a very dangerous mixture in urban atmospheres. On the other hand, if all engines were lean-running diesels, there would be so little HCs in the atmosphere that smog formation would not occur. In conclusion, I think an effort is needed to straighten out the matter with diesel engines and NOx limits. Without NOx limits, very-lean-burning diesels could provide an immediate and substantial reduction in production of CO2 and other air pollutants. See: NOx emissions and biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html From a previous message: ... the real problem isn't the diesels, it's the fuel - US diesel fuel is very poor-quality. With maximum possible foot-dragging by Big Oil USA, it might be improved by 2007, which will put the US 17 years behind Europe. This is the big barrier to clean-diesel technology in the US. Solve that problem, and all the other problems associated with diesels simply vanish. In the meantime, use biodiesel, use also the various technologies available to reduce NOx way below dino-diesel levels, use catalytic converters that you can use with biodiesel but not with high-sulfur dinodiesel, and all the other problems vanish. So, no problem. NOx is also a non-issue. Take this, eg: NOX and VOCs in combination with sunlight form ozone. Urban airshed modeling studies of the Baton Rouge nonattainment area show that reductions in VOCs are more effective in reducing ozone levels than reductions in NOX. In some cases, reductions in NOX have actually been shown to have a negative benefit in the control of ozone levels. For this reason, DEQ's current ozone reduction strategy calls for more VOC reductions rather than further reductions in NOX. - Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality http://www.deq.state.la.us/evaluation/air_indicators/no_2_.htm I contacted the Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality about this asking for further details of the study, but they didn't reply. I'm not in a good position to follow it up. Care to try? Another solution: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/36046/ Re: [biofuel] EPA to Finalize Diesel Pollution Rules Tuesday And this is interesting: The UC Davis biodiesel study -- Chemical and Bioassay Analyses of Diesel and Biodiesel Particulate Matter: Pilot Study -- Final Report by Norman Y. Kado, Robert A. Okamoto and Paul A. Kuzmicky, Department of Environmental Toxicology, University of California, Davis, California, November 1996. This U.S. Department of Energy study found that the use of pure biodiesel instead of petroleum-based diesel fuel could offer a 93.6% reduction in cancer risks from exhaust emissions exposure. Acrobat file, 3.1Mb. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/UCDavisBiodiesel.pdf UC Davis biodiesel study -- summary: the Summary, Results and Discussion sections of the report, in html format. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/UCDavisSumm.html Best wishes Keith Below is an account of fuel economy being achieved by a diesel car. I think this auto efficiency is far above what is being achieved with the Toyota Prius or other hybrid cars. Ernie Rogers Ernie
[biofuel] Re: My view on diesel cars, and a notable event.
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Fuel purchased yesterday in Edmonton (Shell) gave 56 miles per gallon. 2. BUT fuel purchased today in Idaho Falls (Phillips, from Utah refinery) gave 63 miles per gallon. The difference here is much larger than the expected variation due to systematic or random errors. Ernie, Have you made any modifications to your TDI to acheive these results. I have an '03 Beetle TDI, and the best I have been able to manage so far is 51.2 mpg. If there is a way to improve on this, please share. Brian Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
