Re: [Biofuel] Anyone know of Distance Learning in Civil Engineering?

[Phillip Wolfe]

Readers,

Mr. Allen brings up interesting points regarding
formal education vs distance learning.  

Counterpoint - I think that JTF Biofuel is a "distance
learning experience" and provides benefits to many
readers; sometimes providing more tools than formal
education, i.e. the gentleman in Greece seekind
advice.

Point - I don't know how to measure the legitmacy of
distance learning especially in the hard sciences. 

Counterpoint - However, I would not want to limit an
opportunity for someone eager to learn.  This is the
wonderful nature of the internet and explosion of
information.  It goes beyond the walls of structured
academia. 

Point - Example, my friend's father was a man in rural
parts of Honduras in the 1960s.  He did not have
access to transporation. Only mail.  He obtained his
degree via a humble correspondence school he read aout
in a US magazine.   He went on to become Mayor of his
village and built roads, bridges, schools, houses,
because the "degree" gave him the confidence.

I think that man and his distance learning
correspondence school did a lot more than many with a
formal "in the schoolhouse" education.  

Conclusion:
I agree with Mr. Allen that we should be prudent in
our assessment of distance learning but combine this
with introspecton on an individual's talent, intent
and reasoning for furthering one's education. We
should also consider their physical, psychologial or
financial limitations and/or attributes.

Have A Prosperous 2005

Phillip Wolfe

--- bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
http://www.allengineeringschools.com/featured/bachelors-engineering.php
> 
>   I can't speak for any of the listings but
> realistically how do you 
> learn or show competency for laboratory work and
> other hands on skills 
> through online experience?  I would be very
> suspicious of a chemistry 
> degree learned solely on line.  Maybe engineering
> would be different.  
> 
> Phillip Wolfe wrote:
> 
> >Does anyone have knowledge of legitimate distance
> >learning programs in BA in Civil Engineering and or
> >other Engineering Programs?  Also include grants or
> >scholarships. I heard that Case-Western in
> Wisconsin
> >offers a Masters in Engineering Management.
> >
> >Thank you.
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> -- 
> 
>  Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistry
>  http://ozarker.org/bob
> 
> 
> Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and
> expression;
> this right includes freedom to hold opinions without
> interference
> and to seek, receive and impart information and
> ideas through any
> media and regardless of frontiers.
> 
> Article 19 of The Declaration of Human Rights,
> adopted by the
> United Nations General Assembly,10 December 1948:
> ~~~
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> 




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Re: [Biofuel] Anyone know of Distance Learning in Civil Engineering?

[Phillip Wolfe]

Bob = Very good points!!!

I will look at local colleges and universities. 

Thanks for the advice.


--- bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
http://www.allengineeringschools.com/featured/bachelors-engineering.php
> 
>   I can't speak for any of the listings but
> realistically how do you 
> learn or show competency for laboratory work and
> other hands on skills 
> through online experience?  I would be very
> suspicious of a chemistry 
> degree learned solely on line.  Maybe engineering
> would be different.  
> 
> Phillip Wolfe wrote:
> 
> >Does anyone have knowledge of legitimate distance
> >learning programs in BA in Civil Engineering and or
> >other Engineering Programs?  Also include grants or
> >scholarships. I heard that Case-Western in
> Wisconsin
> >offers a Masters in Engineering Management.
> >
> >Thank you.
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> -- 
> 
>  Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistry
>  http://ozarker.org/bob
> 
> 
> Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and
> expression;
> this right includes freedom to hold opinions without
> interference
> and to seek, receive and impart information and
> ideas through any
> media and regardless of frontiers.
> 
> Article 19 of The Declaration of Human Rights,
> adopted by the
> United Nations General Assembly,10 December 1948:
> ~~~
> 
> 
> 
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> http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> 




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Re: [Biofuel] Anyone know of Distance Learning in Civil Engineering?

[bob allen]

 I can't speak for any of the listings but realistically how do you 
learn or show competency for laboratory work and other hands on skills 
through online experience?  I would be very suspicious of a chemistry 
degree learned solely on line.  Maybe engineering would be different.  


Phillip Wolfe wrote:


Does anyone have knowledge of legitimate distance
learning programs in BA in Civil Engineering and or
other Engineering Programs?  Also include grants or
scholarships. I heard that Case-Western in Wisconsin
offers a Masters in Engineering Management.

Thank you.

 



--

Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistry
http://ozarker.org/bob


Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression;
this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference
and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any
media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 19 of The Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the
United Nations General Assembly,10 December 1948:
~~~



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Re: [Biofuel] Anyone know of Distance Learning in Civil Engineering?

[Phillip Wolfe]

Does anyone have knowledge of legitimate distance
learning programs in BA in Civil Engineering and or
other Engineering Programs?  Also include grants or
scholarships. I heard that Case-Western in Wisconsin
offers a Masters in Engineering Management.

Thank you.








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Re: [Biofuel] City General Plans - Influence Public Policy

[Phillip Wolfe]

Biofuel Readers (sorry - I replied to last email and
did not change the heading) 
 
Are they ways to influence U.S. local cities to adopt
alternative transporation and "smart growth"? 

Yes, via the General Plan.  In the United States
each city is required to adopt a General Plan. By
state
law, the General Plan should contain "elements". The
General Plan requires public participation and is an
avenue for you to influence public policy to include
biofuels and clean fuels via the "Circlation
Element"and the "Conservation Element", - cities may
not have the same elements. 

> For a general background on the General Plan, please
> refer to see below weblinks:
> 
> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/ENVI/genplans.html#intro
> 
> "What is a general plan? General plans have many
> synonyms, among them comprehensive plan, development
> plan, land-use plan, master plan, and urban plan.
> Simply stated, a general plan is "the official
> statement of a municipal legislative body which sets
> forth its major policies concerning desirable future
> physical development..." (Kent, The Urban general
> plan, 1964). 

As further elaborated in Planning made easy (Toner,
et al., 1994), a general plan is: 
--A public guide to community decision making 
--An assessment of the community's needs 
--A statement of community values, goals,& objectives 
--A blueprint for the community's physical development
--A public document adopted by the government 
--Continuously updated as conditions change 

Note that California state law requires that each
city general plan contain the following seven (7)
elements:

> 1)circulation (transportation)!
> 2)conservation! 
> 3)housing 
> 4)land use 
> 5)noise 
> 6)open-space 
> 7)safety "

> Have a Prosperous New Year.
> 
> Phillip Wolfe
> Certificate in Urban & Regional Planning
> BA-BioScience/Environment
> MBA-Planning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] test

[Phillip Wolfe]

Biofuel Readers, 

Are they ways to influence U.S. local cities to
officially adopt biofuels, alternative transporation,
and "smart growth"? 

Yes, via the General Plan.  In the United States each
city is required to adopt a General Plan. By state
law, the General Plan should contain "elements".  The
General Plan requires public participation and is an
avenue for you to influence public policy to include
biofuels and clean fuels via the "Circlation Element"
and the "Conservation Element", - cities may not have
the same elements. 

For a general background on the General Plan, please
refer to see below weblinks:

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/ENVI/genplans.html#intro

"What is a general plan? General plans have many
synonyms, among them comprehensive plan, development
plan, land-use plan, master plan, and urban plan.
Simply stated, a general plan is "the official
statement of a municipal legislative body which sets
forth its major policies concerning desirable future
physical development..." (Kent, The Urban general
plan, 1964). 

As further elaborated in Planning made easy (Toner, et
al., 1994), a general plan is: 
--A public guide to community decision making 
--An assessment of the community's needs 
--A statement of community values, goals,& objectives 
--A blueprint for the community's physical development

--A public document adopted by the government 
--Continuously updated as conditions change 

Note that California state law requires that each city
general plan contain the following seven (7) elements:


1)circulation (transportation)!
2)conservation! 
3)housing 
4)land use 
5)noise 
6)open-space 
7)safety "

Have a Prosperous New Year.

Phillip Wolfe
Certificate in Urban & Regional Planning
BA-BioScience/Environment
MBA-Planning





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Re: [Biofuel] ethanol for 2 cycle engines

[Legal Eagle]

- Original Message - 
From: "Octavian Andronic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:59 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] ethanol for 2 cycle engines



Dear Sirs,

Can anybody tell me what kind of fuel mixture (ethanol based) can be used 
to

fuel 2-cycle engine and what modifications had to be made?


Lots of ethanol info here:
http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html
Luc



Best regards and thank you in advance,
Octavian Andronic
www.ariascooters.com



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[Biofuel] test

[Martin Klingensmith]

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[Biofuel] ethanol for 2 cycle engines

[Octavian Andronic]

Dear Sirs,

Can anybody tell me what kind of fuel mixture (ethanol based) can be used to
fuel 2-cycle engine and what modifications had to be made?

Best regards and thank you in advance,
Octavian Andronic
www.ariascooters.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] any ideas?please help me...


> G'day Stelios;
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Stelios Terzakis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:22 AM
> Subject: [Biofuel] any ideas?please help me...
>
>
> Hello everybody and happy new year,
>
> My name is Stelios Terzakis, and i am MSc chemistry student in >Greece and
a
> rockie here,
>
> We all started out that way :-)
>
> >i major in the biofuels. I had a fund from the university on a biodiesel
> >program which i named ''Process development for the production of
biodiesel
> >from used cooking oils''. The idea is to demonstrate the ability of
> >performing the biodiesel reaction in a simple reactor, from cheap raw
> >material.
>
> That is indeed the whole idea, but add to it renewable and eco friendly
use
> of a "waste" product, the WVO.
>
> >I am also examining the quality and standards of the produced fuel, as
well
> >as the gases from a model engine. I use HPLC and GC-MS analysis. Most of
> >the people in Greece haven't heard anything about biodiesel, so i want to
> >promote its use and all the benefits. The part i need help is in the
> >reactor.
>
> Here is the dilema. The reactor will be directly proportionate to the
volume
> you want to make. You can make a simple reactor in a 20 liter pail, like
the
> example at JtF, or you can get quite elaborate, it depends on what you
want
> to do.
> Re-study the Processors page at JtF and use it to give you ideas. You know
> your situation better than anyone and are the one best suited to decide
what
> kind/size reactor set up you need.
>
> >I have left 2,000 euros in consumables.
>
>  For 2,000Eu you can build somethig quite respectable.
>
> >Does anyone has to suggest me the most appropriate methodology and
reactor
> >design? I had some ideas from the site http://journeytoforever.org/ but
> >your experience is valuable.
>
> Well, that is the point. The reactor examples on the JtF site are the sum
of
> the experience of those who are at this forum, ande I am sure that there
> will yet be more great ideas that come from that base. That is what I did.
I
> looked at what was there, let it sink in and then asked myself what kind
of
> set up I needed for my needs, and I came away with a compilation of ideas
> gleened from those examples as well as a few mods I made along the way,
> partially due to the posts at this forum.
>
> >I also looked the reactor on the e-bay it looks nice (i mean if it works)
> >but if i have to pay travel expences i must forget it. All suggestions
are
> >wellcome.
> If i can help anyone to solve problems from his process i will be >very
> glad.
>
> The one on the Ebay page was built with the intention of selling it, and
> apparently there are others of that type on the way. The point is, that
you
> can do it too. maybe not weld metal, unless you know how to do that, then
> your immagination is the only thing standing in the way, but barring being
> able to work with your hands, use things already at your disposal. You can
> start with a water heater as a bse for your reactor or a closed head 200
> liter drum (metal). Whatever method you decide on it should be "fumeless",
> without methoxide fumes escaping during the process, so it should be
> something closed to the atmosphere.
>
> >Nice work you are doing...
> If people communicates and help its other this way the future is not so
bad
> after all.
>
> >Thank you all.
>
> Thank you for participating.
> Luc
>
> >Stelios
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>



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RE: [Biofuel] Seeds

[Peggy]

Hello Robert Luis,

Ah, the spring garden.  We start many of our seeds early on in sprouting
cups, then gingerly move them into larger plastic cups with rich soil
(The colored drinking cups can be used for about three years before they
need to go into the recycling bin.) Plant the started plant in the time
designated in our local growing place.  Some seeds need to be directly
put into the soil and these are my most painful to cull.  Thinning seems
like such a violent act.  (However if you are thinning onions, then, you
just eat them.)

We study seed catalogs from all over the US and some companies offer
world-wide varieties.  We also exchange seeds with our friends.  Old
seeds do just fine in most cases and we have had good luck with seeds
that are five years old.  When saving seeds, consider proper drying,
then store in paper envelopes.  Coin envelopes are handy for sharing
your seeds.

For Washington State, you may consider a company called Territorial
Seed.  Pine Tree is located at www.superseeds.com.  We have been
participants in the philosophies of Seeds of Change for almost forty
years, www.seedsofchange.com.  Their tomatoes are very good and all
their seeds are heirloom and organic.  However, the best tomatoes come
from our Texas catalog of Will Hite at www.willhiteseed.com, which also
have the best variety of melons and okra we have found--but then it is
not local to your area, so this may not be your best crop to consider
(and the same with corn).  Cooks Garden is great for the gourmet touches
that make good cooks great and we keep their herbs going all year round
in pots around the house.  It is fine to pull your tomatoes once they
have reached their growth potential if you anticipate bad weather.  We
often have huge upside down tomato plants hanging around our glassed in
porch interior perimeter at Christmas time.  You can also ripen the
tomatoes by placing them on paper in a shallow pasteboard box on the
floor of your pantry and eat them as they ripen.  We usually finish
eating the last of our tomatoe crop at this time of the year and start
our seeds next month-- then plant for spring, summer, and fall growth.

Now, you may want to grow onions, and here are some tips from many years
of experience.  If you buy sets (100 small plants in a bundle), put out
about 25% of the bunch and bury the other portion's roots as a compact
bundle.  Then, two weeks later, pull out the bundle and plant the next
25%, and so on.  This way your onions mature at a consumable rate and
the small ones do not develop until they are spread out.  At the end of
the season, pull back the soil from the top of the bulb.  This greatly
plumps out the bulb.  Then when your first freeze approaches, remove the
onions with their green leaf in tack and braid them into a decorative
and useful string that you pluck off your lower onions as you use them
after they are developing their outer dry skin.  Then after you get the
excess moisture out of the outer skins, it makes a sort of protective
shell over the onion for storage in a pasteboard box--one layer deep set
in a cool pantry--at least this works for me.

We plant five to seven varieties of tomatoes every year and the same
with our pepper varieties.  Different types have different culinary
attributes.  The thick walled tomatoes are best for stewing.  So when
you are reading your seed catalogs, you are also planning your menu.
Because we like variety, we trade seeds with other people as well as
garden produce.  It is not necessary to use the entire pack of seeds for
a two-person garden.  The "slicers" as I call them are phenomenal.  We
sometimes get tomatoes as large as 8 inches across (but usually around
four or five inches). My husband always seems to plant too much
eggplant, so this is a good swap item for me.  (I can't seem to want to
eat eggplant more than about once a week.)  And the squash is so
abundant during its productive period that waiting two days to harvest
can produce huge fruit that I send to my friends cows.  Last year, we
had so many squash blossoms that I started looking up squash blossom
sauce recipes.

Gardening keeps a person outside for much of the growing season, even if
only collecting the harvest.  Because we have such an intense sun, I
only pull weeds about once a week in the early morning when time allows.
Our garden is curved and about 60 feet long and seven feet deep.  It
wraps around the edge of a retaining wall and is non-standard in
appearance as well as an erratic planting pattern.  We intermingle many
flower varieties within the veggies for both color and as an insect
retardant.  My daughter and I put up several gallons of pesto at
Thanksgiving time and that's a LOT OF BASIL!  We also plant in self
watering Earth Boxes and use drip irrigation in buried tube tape in the
primary garden which is extremely water conservative.  The tape is still
doing pretty good after five years and is not very expensive.  The
connectors ARE quite expensive, so l

Re: [Biofuel] more on the quality test

[Appal Energy]

And just what is it that you see wrong with these numbers?


this is an example of fuel without high enough mono or di glycerides to 
fail the wash test but high enough triglycerides to push it out of spec.


I ddin't realize the sample you mentioned was from someone else's venture. I 
tend to veer away from Infopop for a number of reasons. One is all the 
collaborative guesswork. The other is all the manufactured credentials of so 
many of the members there. One month someone's just becoming familiar with 
biodiesel and six months to two years later they're "renowned" or a 
"chemist" or have "10 years of bidiesel experience." Combine so many 
variables/free-radicals and it only seems prudent to move in a manner where 
"results" are a bit more verifiable.


As for the sample, it's not surprising that there was incomplete conversion. 
Pumps don't provide the interaction needed to keep a tank's contents in 
continual bedlam, at least not the small pump mentioned and even more 
doubtful based upon the short duration it was activated. They may mix, but 
outside the main flowstream there is little agitation. I would have 
suggested that the reaction time be not less than six hours even before 
seeing the post. In an environment where feedstock isn't backing up on the 
dock, there's no need to try and rush.


We use 16-24 hour reaction times in a 400 gallon reactor for two primary 
reasons. The first is that we have no desire (yet) to start leaning the 
process out and begin bumping into problems. The second is that the reactor 
is an adapted horizontal dairy tank with a twin-prop (one 4" and one 6", 
with 3/4 hp drive at 1,200 rpm), vertical mixer. Even with the extra 
agitation, the farther reaches of the horizontal tank tend to be more calm 
than the center, unlike the vortex that would form in a vertical tank (even 
with baffles).


The second thing I would have suggested is that well before submitting a 
sample for testing, a "Po' Man's Titration" be conducted, as well as 
side-by-side wash tests of each sample from the same set of bracket 
titrations to better gain an understanding of what the effects of different 
levels of caustic are. I've made the recommendation before that anyone who's 
made but one "successful" liter of fuel conduct a one or two bracket tests 
(varying ranges or a larger number of samples), preferably before moving on 
to bigger game. The difference of 1/2 gram of caustic below or above minimum 
per liter of feedstock can yield some very quantifiable difference between 
samples. In the wash it can mean a difference between a clean separation in 
30 seconds or less and a slightly milky but thin layer that appears to be 
"complete" separation .


Todd Swearingen

- Original Message - 
From: "John Guttridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more on the quality test





Appal Energy wrote:
Well, I got my report back from Magellan Midstream. My sample tested as 
follows:



That was rather quick.. Glad Ms. Alovert was able to direct you to a 
place that can give you answers quickly, as well as precisely. Which 
sample did you submit?


this was quoted from the link right below it as indicated by the  
and  around it, I apologize if that is not clear.





0.002 mass% Free Glycerin
0.940 mass% Monoglyceride
1.084 mass% Diglyceride
3.911 mass% Triglyceride
0.815 mass% Tot. Glycerin



And just what is it that you see wrong with these numbers?


this is an example of fuel without high enough mono or di glycerides to 
fail the wash test but high enough triglycerides to push it out of spec.


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Re: [Biofuel] The Balfour Decision Reconsidered

[Legal Eagle]

- Original Message - 
From: "Kenneth Kron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 1:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Balfour Decision Reconsidered


What I know for sure is no one ever wins a war, in every war everyone is a 
loser.


kk


Wars don't just happen, they are planned. And where there is a plan there is 
an agenda, and where there is an agenda there is aforethought sometimes 
taking many years in the making so that it will go "just right".
It took time to plan and execute 9-11 to give the result that the planners 
were looking for. There are behind-the-scenes people in any war or intent of 
war, and every war ever fought can be traced to these elements.
Balfour in and of itself was the prize for successfully planning and 
executing getting the US involved in war. They didn't just wake up one 
morning and decide that going off to be killed would be a fun thing to do, 
they were manipulated into that position, just like now they are manipulated 
into the so-called "war on terror", and it just so happens it's the same lot 
doing the manipulating, go figure.

Wars don't just happen, they are planned in order to further an agenda.
Luc
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Re: [Biofuel] any ideas?please help me...

[Legal Eagle]

- Original Message - 
From: "Stelios Terzakis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:22 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] any ideas?please help me...


Hello everybody and happy new year,

My name is Stelios Terzakis, and i am MSc chemistry student in >Greece and a 
rockie here,


We all started out that way :-)

i major in the biofuels. I had a fund from the university on a biodiesel 
program which i named ''Process development for the production of biodiesel 
from used cooking oils''. The idea is to demonstrate the ability of 
performing the biodiesel reaction in a simple reactor, from cheap raw 
material.


That is indeed the whole idea, but add to it renewable and eco friendly use 
of a "waste" product, the WVO.


I am also examining the quality and standards of the produced fuel, as well 
as the gases from a model engine. I use HPLC and GC-MS analysis. Most of 
the people in Greece haven't heard anything about biodiesel, so i want to 
promote its use and all the benefits. The part i need help is in the 
reactor.


Here is the dilema. The reactor will be directly proportionate to the volume 
you want to make. You can make a simple reactor in a 20 liter pail, like the 
example at JtF, or you can get quite elaborate, it depends on what you want 
to do.
Re-study the Processors page at JtF and use it to give you ideas. You know 
your situation better than anyone and are the one best suited to decide what 
kind/size reactor set up you need.



I have left 2,000 euros in consumables.


For 2,000Eu you can build somethig quite respectable.

Does anyone has to suggest me the most appropriate methodology and reactor 
design? I had some ideas from the site http://journeytoforever.org/ but 
your experience is valuable.


Well, that is the point. The reactor examples on the JtF site are the sum of 
the experience of those who are at this forum, ande I am sure that there 
will yet be more great ideas that come from that base. That is what I did. I 
looked at what was there, let it sink in and then asked myself what kind of 
set up I needed for my needs, and I came away with a compilation of ideas 
gleened from those examples as well as a few mods I made along the way, 
partially due to the posts at this forum.


I also looked the reactor on the e-bay it looks nice (i mean if it works) 
but if i have to pay travel expences i must forget it. All suggestions are 
wellcome.
If i can help anyone to solve problems from his process i will be >very 
glad.


The one on the Ebay page was built with the intention of selling it, and 
apparently there are others of that type on the way. The point is, that you 
can do it too. maybe not weld metal, unless you know how to do that, then 
your immagination is the only thing standing in the way, but barring being 
able to work with your hands, use things already at your disposal. You can 
start with a water heater as a bse for your reactor or a closed head 200 
liter drum (metal). Whatever method you decide on it should be "fumeless", 
without methoxide fumes escaping during the process, so it should be 
something closed to the atmosphere.



Nice work you are doing...
If people communicates and help its other this way the future is not so bad 
after all.



Thank you all.


Thank you for participating.
Luc


Stelios

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Re: [Biofuel] The Balfour Decision Reconsidered

[Kenneth Kron]

a loser.

kk

Lyle Estill wrote:


Interesting take.

When I studied the war of 1812 in grade nine in Canada, this was 
exactly the view.  The U.S. wanted territory, failed to take it, 
therefore lost the war--to Canada nonetheless.


Studying the same war in 10th grade in the United States, the message 
was "The U.S. has never lost a war."


Korea and Vietnam did not count as they were "police actions."


On Jan 1, 2005, at 9:53 PM, Darryl McMahon wrote:

I don't think the War of 1812 counts as a U.S. win either.  IIRC my 
history
correctly, that began as a European war (Napoleonic), and the U.S. 
decided to grab
the North American British colonies while Britain was distracted on 
the continent,
part of American expansionist desires (later known as Manifest 
Destiny).  Yes, some
British policies (impressing sailors from ships at sea, including 
some U.S.
citizens, to man her ships) did provide a pretext for U.S. campaigns 
into British

territories, but the desires to do so go back at least as far as 1810 in
Congressional records.

Instead, Washington D.C. was attacked, and the Executive Mansion - 
later the White
House - was set afire by British troops in August 1814.  In fact, 
this act was the
basis for the name.  The building was not completely destroyed by the 
fire, and in
the subsequent hasty rebuilding, the structure (originally yellow 
IIRC) was painted

white (as white paint was the easiest to obtain quickly).

In the end, the U.S. gained no British territory after their 
campaigns north in
1812-1814.  They did succeed in invading and occupying Spanish 
territories during
this period, e.g. parts of what is now Florida, Louisiana and Texas.  
Actually, the
U.S. ended up ceding the Passamaquoddy Islands and Grand Manan Island 
to the
British as part of the war settlement (Treaty of Ghent and subsequent 
to 1817).


In general, the British simply chose to hold their own territories in 
North America
during this period.  In those cases where they did take American 
territory, they
withdrew shortly afterward.  In fact, the British were distracted in 
Europe, and
did not wish to put any more resources into N.A. than absolutely 
necessary.


History certainly has its quirks.

Darryl




--
Kenneth Kron
President Bay Area Biofuel
http://www.bayareabiofuel.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: 415-867-8067
What you can do, or dream you can do, begin it!
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe .


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Re: Re[2]: [Biofuel] The Balfour Decision Reconsidered

[Jonathan Howell]

Quoting unproven controversial allegations as "fact" is bad form.  Show me 
some anecdotal evidence that the Lusitania was carrying munitions.  Show 
that explosive experts have calculated from the wreakage that anything but 
the topedo and the boilers blew up.
That at least would to some extent explain the 1100+ deaths in some context 
other than the tired old excuse of "Man's inhumanity...bla bla bla."


As for the sinking being a "Trigger"...
She was sunk in May 1915
US War entry April 1917...h
Long fuse on that trigger, eh?

Jonathan




Original Message Follows
From: Ken Riznyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Biofuel] The Balfour Decision Reconsidered
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 10:17:31 -0800 (PST)


--- bmolloy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Luc,
> (Snip)
> -
> Original Message -
> From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Biofuel] The Balfour Decision
> Reconsidered
The Lusitania was in fact heading to Liverpool from
the US. It was loaded with munitions which is why the
Germans sank it and why is sunk so fast claiming so
many lives.

Ken

 The
> trigger was the sinking of the Lusitania - an ocean
> liner heading for the
> United States with US citizens on board - by a
> German submarine. As it was,
> the US waited until the eleventh hour - April 1917,
> when the Central Powers
> were falling apart under Allied pressure - before
> entering the conflict. And
> only then because an increasingly desperate Germany
> had declared open season
> on all shipping, including US ships.



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[Biofuel] any ideas?please help me...

[Stelios Terzakis]

Hello everybody and happy new year,

My name is Stelios Terzakis, and i am MSc chemistry student in Greece and a 
rockie here, i major in the biofuels. I had a fund from the university on a 
biodiesel program which i named ''Process development for the production of 
biodiesel from used cooking oils''. The idea is to demonstrate the ability of 
performing the biodiesel reaction in a simple reactor, from cheap raw material. 
I am also examining the quality and standards of the produced fuel, as well as 
the gases from a model engine. I use HPLC and GC-MS analysis. Most of the 
people in Greece haven't heard anything about biodiesel, so i want to promote 
its use and all the benefits. The part i need help is in the reactor. I have 
left 2,000 euros in consumables. Does anyone has to suggest me the most 
appropriate methodology and reactor design? I had some ideas from the site 
http://journeytoforever.org/ but your experience is valuable. I also looked the 
reactor on the e-bay it looks nice (i mean if it works)  but if i have to pay 
travel expences i must forget it. All suggestions are wellcome.
If i can help anyone to solve problems from his process i will be very glad. 

Nice work you are doing...
If people communicates and help its other this way the future is not so bad 
after all.

Thank you all.

Stelios
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Re: [Biofuel] Seeds

[Legal Eagle]

Send Ken an email. He does sapplings, seeds and other stuff until the 
organics from the garden are ready.
http://www.windmillpointfarm.ca/isapi/isapi.dll?page.home&language_id=1 is 
the path to their site.

Luc
- Original Message - 
From: "robert luis rabello" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 1:44 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Seeds



Hello everyone!

My sweetheart and I have been planning our garden for this year. Last 
year's vegetables were, by far, the most successful we have ever managed; 
a fact particularly heartening when the poor condition of our soil is 
considered.  (We're still eating fresh carrots, which we have left in the 
ground.  Even in January, they are sweet and firm!)


We'd used old seed.  Our corn was especially pathetic.  Tomatoes (the 
texture of which I liken to biting a human lip) stayed green until the 
rain arrived in October, then simply rotted.  (This was a shame because my 
eldest son is particularly fond of them.)  Squash, peas, purple beans, 
beets, potatoes, pumpkins, radishes and carrots did exceedingly well.  Our 
broccoli was very late, but especially delicious.  Cabbage did well for 
the first part of the summer, then the weather turned REALLY hot and the 
heads tended to split.


Aside from the pumpkins, (which were fine grained and sweet) fruit didn't 
fare very well.  Melons and cantaloupe never really developed. Our fruit 
trees are weak, but I'm working on that. . .


We want to use fresh seed this year.  Do any of you have any 
recommendations for cool, west coast climate vegetables?  We would prefer 
a seed distributor located in western Canada or the United States.


Thanks in advance!


robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782>

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] Seeds

[Gustl Steiner-Zehender]

Hallo Robert,

Try these folks:

http://www.seedsofchange.com/

Happy Happy,

Gustl

Monday, 03 January, 2005, 01:44:16, you wrote:

rlr> Hello everyone!

rlr> My sweetheart and I have been planning our garden for this year. 
rlr> Last year's vegetables were, by far, the most successful we have ever 
rlr> managed; a fact particularly heartening when the poor condition of our 
rlr> soil is considered.  (We're still eating fresh carrots, which we have 
rlr> left in the ground.  Even in January, they are sweet and firm!)

rlr> We'd used old seed.  Our corn was especially pathetic.  Tomatoes 
(the 
rlr> texture of which I liken to biting a human lip) stayed green until the 
rlr> rain arrived in October, then simply rotted.  (This was a shame 
rlr> because my eldest son is particularly fond of them.)  Squash, peas, 
rlr> purple beans, beets, potatoes, pumpkins, radishes and carrots did 
rlr> exceedingly well.  Our broccoli was very late, but especially 
rlr> delicious.  Cabbage did well for the first part of the summer, then 
rlr> the weather turned REALLY hot and the heads tended to split.

rlr> Aside from the pumpkins, (which were fine grained and sweet) fruit 
rlr> didn't fare very well.  Melons and cantaloupe never really developed. 
rlr>   Our fruit trees are weak, but I'm working on that. . .

rlr> We want to use fresh seed this year.  Do any of you have any 
rlr> recommendations for cool, west coast climate vegetables?  We would 
rlr> prefer a seed distributor located in western Canada or the United States.


-- 
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.
Mitglied-Team AMIGA
ICQ: 22211253-Gustli

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, 
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, 
without signposts.  
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, 
da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewšhnlichen Welt nicht 
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.  
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth



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[Biofuel] Seeds

[robert luis rabello]

	My sweetheart and I have been planning our garden for this year. 
Last year's vegetables were, by far, the most successful we have ever 
managed; a fact particularly heartening when the poor condition of our 
soil is considered.  (We're still eating fresh carrots, which we have 
left in the ground.  Even in January, they are sweet and firm!)


	We'd used old seed.  Our corn was especially pathetic.  Tomatoes (the 
texture of which I liken to biting a human lip) stayed green until the 
rain arrived in October, then simply rotted.  (This was a shame 
because my eldest son is particularly fond of them.)  Squash, peas, 
purple beans, beets, potatoes, pumpkins, radishes and carrots did 
exceedingly well.  Our broccoli was very late, but especially 
delicious.  Cabbage did well for the first part of the summer, then 
the weather turned REALLY hot and the heads tended to split.


	Aside from the pumpkins, (which were fine grained and sweet) fruit 
didn't fare very well.  Melons and cantaloupe never really developed. 
 Our fruit trees are weak, but I'm working on that. . .


	We want to use fresh seed this year.  Do any of you have any 
recommendations for cool, west coast climate vegetables?  We would 
prefer a seed distributor located in western Canada or the United States.


Thanks in advance!


robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782>

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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RE: [Biofuel] Made in China?

[Peggy]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Guag Meister

Many times what people want and what is are not the
same.

Absolutely right, the consumer gets what they demand. 

The consumer gets what the consumer demands.  Sorry 
out there but my feeling is the average consumer is
not capable of intelligent choices after exposure to
the mass media.

Best Regards,
Peter G.
Thailand

Hello Peter,

Thank you for the New Years greeting and everyone else as well.  I agree
with your summary about choices.  I just returned from one week in
Puerto Rico and have many observations.  As most everyone knows, Puerto
Rico is a commonwealth of the US--a tax haven to avoid paying taxes, but
offering/ receiving incentives to placate the populace. Although their
indigenous culture included waves of different native people and a more
recent five-hundred-year European and African mingling, the country
astounded me.  It is very beautiful, but it is very poor in any form of
self-sufficiency ethic.

Because the forum is discussing slave labor and/or sweat-shop labor,
then this artificially inflated island may serve as an example of
"changes" via establishing a more level playing field.  Ha!  With 40% of
the population on welfare, they also import 90% of their food stuff.
Luckily the rain forests and most of the land naturally re-established
thick growth that would require quite a bit of sweat or machinery to
alter.  The plants know how to re-grow after hurricanes and the
previously abused land appears to be rapidly recovering.  The re-growth
is amazing in both the mountains and the mangrove swamps.  The navy
pulled out of Vieques (a smaller island) about five years ago and their
previous base is now a nature preserve because of the pressure of the
island people to regain their tranquility.  All this is happening rather
quickly in human years.  

What was really strange to me was that there is not much of an apparent
available labor force--not too much sweat.  And most of all, there are
hardly any vegetables!  When driving through the countryside, we only
passed one small herd of cattle (maybe 20 cows), and two chickens, about
five goats, and two hogs.  This is really crazy.  I pass all kinds of
farm animals and natural wildlife on my way to and from work in rural
Texas.  Also, the largest rum factory in the world imports its sugar
cane.  And as I mentioned previously, fuel ethanol production from sugar
cane via a cellulosic breakdown offers a renewable resource for
thousands of gallons per acre annually.  The potential exists.

As real estate owners/ residents, it is possible for these people to
have year-round growing potential and grow most anything.  Most every
house has room for a kitchen garden--but there are hardly any food
gardens much less agricultural endeavors.  The only home garden that I
found was a hobby garden by a retired man.  One of the
ecologically-oriented guest retreats grows its own fruits (the owner is
from the mid-west US).  However, the natives are great fishermen!

Well, the point is that the incentive to grow food is not there because
the people can afford Tyson chicken, bananas, rice and beans that are
all imported.  The combination of these entrŽes cost anywhere from 3 to
20 dollars depending on the setting.  Sandwich shops are located
throughout the islands for New York, deli-style quick foods.  However,
they use shredded cabbage and not local produce as the usual veggie.
(Cabbage keeps better--yet is not grown locally).  Because I lived in
Mexico and have traveled in Central America, I saw the people sweat and
grow their food.  And I lived in their villages and my husband provided
free dental care to the indigent during vacations.  (But that's another
story)  What I think I witnessed is that the opiate of the welfare
system took away the need to sweat.  Destroying the sugar-cane
production rather than re-vamping the system also seems to be a bit
misguided.

While interviewing an editor of a newspaper for the government, I asked
many questions about the people and the islands.  As an official spokes
person, she kept bringing up the needs of the people for health care and
social services.  In my humble opinion, sweating and a healthy diet can
cure most of what ails a person and putting in a good days work
eliminates many social needs.

We have all been witnessing Kim's efforts to build her family,
self-sustaining farm.  Many of these people have better land and
excellent year-round growing conditions, but do not see a need to sweat,
yet still want the "government" to assist in their health agenda.  As a
consumer, I was a bit disappointed in the "good food" that is so well
presented in the travel logs.  I love local markets and home grown food.
It just wasn't to be found.  To me this means that the island is losing
its soul.

So I offer a toast to sweat!  And by-the-way, I have not missed a day of
work in over thirty-five years due to illness.  As a dental hygienist, I
work in a sea of 

Re: [Biofuel] Linux box

[Martin Klingensmith]

I had to work down at RobotGroup today as we are having to move out of our 
warehouse and had to move the Robot Brain and all the racks.

http://www.robotgroup.org

http://www.robotgroup.net

So I didn't get everything done I wanted to.

But will let you know tomorrow or the next day when the box is up.

Sorry it is taking a little longer.

mel

 

That's ok Mel, it doesn't bother me if it doesn't bother you that the 
email went to the list.
Besides, the robot stuff is pretty interesting to look at. And Richard 
Stallman came to visit, that's pretty cool.
Don't worry about getting it running immediately, if other things are 
more important that's ok.
For those of you who have no idea what we're talking about, Mel is 
helping out Journey to Forever by setting up a server to mirror the web 
site.

Thanks Mel!
--
Martin K
http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/
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RE: [Biofuel] Linux box

[Mel Riser]

Sorry this was supposed to go to Martin, not the list

Apologies.

mel

-Original Message-
From: Mel Riser 
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:08 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] Linux box


I had to work down at RobotGroup today as we are having to move out of our 
warehouse and had to move the Robot Brain and all the racks.

http://www.robotgroup.org

http://www.robotgroup.net

So I didn't get everything done I wanted to.

But will let you know tomorrow or the next day when the box is up.

Sorry it is taking a little longer.

mel

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[Biofuel] Linux box

[Mel Riser]

I had to work down at RobotGroup today as we are having to move out of our 
warehouse and had to move the Robot Brain and all the racks.

http://www.robotgroup.org

http://www.robotgroup.net

So I didn't get everything done I wanted to.

But will let you know tomorrow or the next day when the box is up.

Sorry it is taking a little longer.

mel

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RE: [Biofuel] Anyone know anything about this on ebay?

[Mel Riser]

I got a response from him tonight.

He says he has one just like it and makes fuel for his two Mercedes and for his 
oil burner at his house.

I told him about our list.

I'll ask if I can forward his email to the list.

mel

-Original Message-
From: Busyditch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anyone know anything about this on ebay?


He is not too far from me, might be worth looking onto and picking it up myself.
- Original Message - 
From: "John Mullan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:46 AM
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Anyone know anything about this on ebay?


> I haven't ventured this far in my quest, but I'd really love to hear 
> if anyone picks up one of these units.  If it works satisfactorily, 
> I'd be willing to buy one.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: December 31, 2004 7:04 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone know anything about this on ebay?
>
>
>
> Hey,
> Saw this on ebay...
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11809&item=3864167546
> &rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
> anybodys opinion on this?
> Don
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RE: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF-- mushroom media

[Guag Meister]

Hi Kirk and Peggy

Yes I have Paul Stamet's book which is incredibly
detailed.  I never heard of the hydrogen peroxide
method, but it sure looks like it simplifies things
considerably.

I keep seeing these huge piles of bushel bags of free
sawdust.  I have considered compost, mushrooms, and
gasification after pelletization to run my truck. 
This sawdust is from a fine tooth bandsaw dust
collector, so it is like flour, not like small wood
chips or slivers from a rip saw.

Starting with the simplest which is compost, but I
definately plan on doing gasification and mushrooms
later.

Best Regards,

Peter G.
Thailand

--- Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I know hobbyists that eliminate the hassles of heat
> sterilization of media using hydrogen peroxide.
> Works very well.
> Some info here
> http://www.mycomasters.com/
> http://www.mycomasters.com/Slideshow.html
>
http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/easy_mushrooms_01.html
> http://www.wildmushrooms.org/frames/oms_peroxide.htm
> 
> Kirk
> 
> 
> --- Peggy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello composting and soil enhancing enthusiasts,
> > 
> > Impregnating the compost mix with mycelia can
> > potentiate excellent
> > beneficial breakdowns of the substrate and release
> > additional nutrients
> > for the seed as was recently discussed in the
> > mushroom emails on this
> > forum.  New experimentation and documented results
> > continue to build a
> > reference library within Paul Stament's student's
> > applications and
> > commercial activities.  He also sells mushroom
> > "kits".  (And you can
> > make your own "kits" for 5 cents on the dollar is
> > you have a way/ or
> > build a way to steam the substrate.) Different
> > varieties of mushrooms
> > grow better in various parts of the world, so the
> > ideal mushroom for
> > your area may be different than in other areas. 
> > Hopefully many of you
> > will consider microbial/ mycological enhancements
> to
> > your compost.  You
> > can take spore samples off of any fruited cap and
> > then by inoculating a
> > small substrate, grow a good base to spread within
> a
> > composted mass.
> > Then that mixture can and will provide an even
> more
> > enhanced soil than
> > your basic composted material.  Luckily, we have a
> > nearby mushroom farm
> > that sells its compost.  You might also look for
> > this kind of "waste" to
> > bring into your mix if you can locate a mushroom
> > farm in your area.
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > Peggy
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and
> LOF.
> > 
> > Hello Peter,
> > 
> > I will be following your efforts closely, as I'm
> > sure others will.  I
> > have
> > contracted with a small town here in Minnesota to
> > build, and install,
> > some
> > rotating barrel composters (5) in their city
> > garden/compost area in late
> > March of this year.  In this area, we have no
> > shortage of materials for
> > composting, but I am always interested in learning
> > of new processes as
> > they
> > relate to composting.
> > 
> > Having never composted wood or sawdust myself, I'm
> > afraid I am lacking
> > in
> > actual hands on experience with these particular
> > materials.  However, I
> > do
> > have experience composting, and will help you with
> > as much as I can.
> > You
> > will need to incorporate some sort of
> media/fibrous
> > material to fight
> > compaction.  Since I understand your area to be
> > "concrete infested",
> > some
> > ideas that come to mind are;  newspaper shreds
> > (black and white
> > newsprint:
> > hand shredded not too small, then loosely
> crumpled),
> > perhaps non-colored
> > cardboard (again hand torn approx. 2" x 6" lengths
> > and then loosely
> > crumpled), if you can get some hay, or straw,
> either
> > would be okay.
> > 
> > It's clear, from reading your post, that you
> > understand what's required.
> > Now it's simply a matter of time and effort. 
> > Anyway, I'm looking
> > forward to
> > reading about your efforts, and good luck in your
> > endeavors.
> > 
> > AntiFossil
> > Mike Krafka
> > Minnesota USA
> > 
> > > Hi Kim ;
> > >
> > > LOF is Liquid Organic Fertilizer or what Keith
> > calls
> > > Household Compost Activator, in other words,
> > urine.
> > >
> > > Yes I guess I could put in some grass or leaves,
> > which
> > > is what most recipies call for.  But two
> problems
> > with
> > > that.  One is I live in a concrete  village. 
> > There is
> > > no grass or trees anywhere.  That is no
> > exageration.
> > > I don't have a front yard or back yard.  Just
> > concrete
> > > everywhere.  Nobody around here ever has grass
> to
> > cut,
> > > so I can't just pick up someone elses cuttings
> > either.
> > >  In order to get some grass I would need to get
> in
> > my
> > > truck, drive a kilometers, stop on some else'e
> > > property and start cutting away.  Lot's of free
> > > sawdust fines though.
> > >
> > > Secondly, for my project in the near future, I
> > will
> > > have LOT's of wood after the h

Re: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF.

[Guag Meister]

Hi Graeme ;

Yes these were the kinds of numbers I was looking for.
 I'm only on my very first ever 5 gallon batch, and
quite uncontrolled at this point.  The sawdust is
turning a dark brown color after 1 week and strong
ammonia smell.  Apparently this mrans too much
nitrogen, but this is not a very bad thing at all,
just off gasses as ammonia.

I'll start another batch using your numbers and let
you know.

Peggy I plan on doing the mushroom thing, but not yet.

Thanks to all who responded.  

Best Regards,

Peter G.
Thailand

--- Graeme Vagg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Peter,
> 
> If your sawdust has a low moisture content (say
> around 15%), I would use 1.2
> litres of LOF for each kilogram of sawdust.
> 
> I don't know what an optimum time would be.  With
> turning daily you may only
> need 5 to 7 days.  Around 21 days might be needed. 
> Commercial compost
> systems are required to let the heap stand for at
> least 42 days before being
> used (i.e sold to the public).  A composting toilet
> using sawdust as an
> absorbant may take 2 to 3 years to process.  Stable
> manure with sawdust
> takes three years to break down to the highest
> quality compost but is usable
> at a lower quality after one and two years.
> 
> Graeme 
>  
> ---Original Message---
>  
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: 01/03/05 07:08:59
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF.
>  
> Hi Kim ;
>  
> LOF is Liquid Organic Fertilizer or what Keith calls
> Household Compost Activator, in other words, urine.
>  
> Yes I guess I could put in some grass or leaves,
> which
> is what most recipies call for.  But two problems
> with
> that.  One is I live in a concrete  village.  There
> is
> no grass or trees anywhere.  That is no exageration.
> I don't have a front yard or back yard.  Just
> concrete
> everywhere.  Nobody around here ever has grass to
> cut,
> so I can't just pick up someone elses cuttings
> either.
>   In order to get some grass I would need to get in
> my
> truck, drive a kilometers, stop on some else'e
> property and start cutting away.  Lot's of free
> sawdust fines though.
>  
> Secondly, for my project in the near future, I will
> have LOT's of wood after the hammer mill but not so
> much greens.  This is more a learning excersize.
>  
> So I'm just investigating the possiblities of no
> grass, ONLY sawdust and LOF.  The wood is carbon,
> and
> the LOF is the nitrogen, and it should be possible
> if
> I can keep it aerated.  Is it?  What ratio?
>  
> Truthfully, there are also a few small table scraps,
> but very little.  I live with my daughter and there
> is
> normally only a watermelon or orange peel per day.
> Let's ignore that for the time being.
>  
> If this doesn't work, I will go grass cutting, but
> please humor me first.  It should be possible with
> just sawdust and LOF. Is it?   What ratio?  How much
> time?  Is strong ammonia smell normal?  Is very
> little
> heat normal (I think not)?
>  
> Once I get a formula and procedure that looks
> correct,
>   I will do a 55 gallon drum.  Already got the drum.
>  
> Best Regards,
>  
> Peter G.
> Thailand
>  
>  
>  
> --- Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
> > While I am not sure what LOF is, I have used the
> > very fine sawdust that I
> > get from my table saw in my compost.  Mine is used
> > in our toilet buckets
> > first, but it must be mixed with something that
> has
> > a little more fiber or
> > it compacts.  Compaction in a compost pile means
> no
> > oxygen, which is a
> > problem.  Mix some grass, well mulched into the
> mix
> > and it should work better.
> > Bright Blessings,
> > Kim
> >
> > At 06:06 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote:
> > >Hi Keith ;
> > >
> > >Since I plan on making lots of compost from wood,
> I
> > >thought I would start experimenting with the
> > abundant
> > >and free sawdust from next door.
> > >
> > >I read the pages on JtF, but none comes close to
> my
> > >situation.  The sawdust is REALLY fine, like
> > blowing
> > >sand.  I will use a fly screen to keep it from
> > coming
> > >out the container holes.  It should compost
> quickly
> > >because particle size is so small, if I can keep
> it
> > >aerated.
> > >
> > >Could you recommend a mix ratio and procedure
> only
> > >using sawdust and LOF to start?  I am using a 10
> > gal
> > >pail, turn it every day, and I get a strong smell
> > of
> > >ammonia after a few days.  Not too much heat at
> > all,
> > >only a little.
> > >
> > >Best Regards,
> > >
> > >Peter G.
> > >Thailand
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__
> > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > >Send a seasonal email greeting and help others.
> Do
> > good.
> > >http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
> > >___
> > >Biofuel mailing list
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel
> > >
> > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > >
> > >Biofuel archives 

RE: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF-- mushroom media

[Kirk McLoren]

I know hobbyists that eliminate the hassles of heat
sterilization of media using hydrogen peroxide.
Works very well.
Some info here
http://www.mycomasters.com/
http://www.mycomasters.com/Slideshow.html
http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/easy_mushrooms_01.html
http://www.wildmushrooms.org/frames/oms_peroxide.htm

Kirk


--- Peggy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello composting and soil enhancing enthusiasts,
> 
> Impregnating the compost mix with mycelia can
> potentiate excellent
> beneficial breakdowns of the substrate and release
> additional nutrients
> for the seed as was recently discussed in the
> mushroom emails on this
> forum.  New experimentation and documented results
> continue to build a
> reference library within Paul Stament's student's
> applications and
> commercial activities.  He also sells mushroom
> "kits".  (And you can
> make your own "kits" for 5 cents on the dollar is
> you have a way/ or
> build a way to steam the substrate.) Different
> varieties of mushrooms
> grow better in various parts of the world, so the
> ideal mushroom for
> your area may be different than in other areas. 
> Hopefully many of you
> will consider microbial/ mycological enhancements to
> your compost.  You
> can take spore samples off of any fruited cap and
> then by inoculating a
> small substrate, grow a good base to spread within a
> composted mass.
> Then that mixture can and will provide an even more
> enhanced soil than
> your basic composted material.  Luckily, we have a
> nearby mushroom farm
> that sells its compost.  You might also look for
> this kind of "waste" to
> bring into your mix if you can locate a mushroom
> farm in your area.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Peggy
> 
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF.
> 
> Hello Peter,
> 
> I will be following your efforts closely, as I'm
> sure others will.  I
> have
> contracted with a small town here in Minnesota to
> build, and install,
> some
> rotating barrel composters (5) in their city
> garden/compost area in late
> March of this year.  In this area, we have no
> shortage of materials for
> composting, but I am always interested in learning
> of new processes as
> they
> relate to composting.
> 
> Having never composted wood or sawdust myself, I'm
> afraid I am lacking
> in
> actual hands on experience with these particular
> materials.  However, I
> do
> have experience composting, and will help you with
> as much as I can.
> You
> will need to incorporate some sort of media/fibrous
> material to fight
> compaction.  Since I understand your area to be
> "concrete infested",
> some
> ideas that come to mind are;  newspaper shreds
> (black and white
> newsprint:
> hand shredded not too small, then loosely crumpled),
> perhaps non-colored
> cardboard (again hand torn approx. 2" x 6" lengths
> and then loosely
> crumpled), if you can get some hay, or straw, either
> would be okay.
> 
> It's clear, from reading your post, that you
> understand what's required.
> Now it's simply a matter of time and effort. 
> Anyway, I'm looking
> forward to
> reading about your efforts, and good luck in your
> endeavors.
> 
> AntiFossil
> Mike Krafka
> Minnesota USA
> 
> > Hi Kim ;
> >
> > LOF is Liquid Organic Fertilizer or what Keith
> calls
> > Household Compost Activator, in other words,
> urine.
> >
> > Yes I guess I could put in some grass or leaves,
> which
> > is what most recipies call for.  But two problems
> with
> > that.  One is I live in a concrete  village. 
> There is
> > no grass or trees anywhere.  That is no
> exageration.
> > I don't have a front yard or back yard.  Just
> concrete
> > everywhere.  Nobody around here ever has grass to
> cut,
> > so I can't just pick up someone elses cuttings
> either.
> >  In order to get some grass I would need to get in
> my
> > truck, drive a kilometers, stop on some else'e
> > property and start cutting away.  Lot's of free
> > sawdust fines though.
> >
> > Secondly, for my project in the near future, I
> will
> > have LOT's of wood after the hammer mill but not
> so
> > much greens.  This is more a learning excersize.
> >
> > So I'm just investigating the possiblities of no
> > grass, ONLY sawdust and LOF.  The wood is carbon,
> and
> > the LOF is the nitrogen, and it should be possible
> if
> > I can keep it aerated.  Is it?  What ratio?
> >
> > Truthfully, there are also a few small table
> scraps,
> > but very little.  I live with my daughter and
> there is
> > normally only a watermelon or orange peel per day.
> > Let's ignore that for the time being.
> >
> > If this doesn't work, I will go grass cutting, but
> > please humor me first.  It should be possible with
> > just sawdust and LOF. Is it?   What ratio?  How
> much
> > time?  Is strong ammonia smell normal?  Is very
> little
> > heat normal (I think not)?
> >
> > Once I get a formula and procedure that looks
> correct,
> >  I will do a 55 gallon drum.  Already got the
> drum.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Peter G.
> > Thailand
>

Re: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF.

[Graeme Vagg]

Peter,



If your sawdust has a low moisture content (say around 15%), I would use 1.2
litres of LOF for each kilogram of sawdust.



I don't know what an optimum time would be.  With turning daily you may only
need 5 to 7 days.  Around 21 days might be needed.  Commercial compost
systems are required to let the heap stand for at least 42 days before being
used (i.e sold to the public).  A composting toilet using sawdust as an
absorbant may take 2 to 3 years to process.  Stable manure with sawdust
takes three years to break down to the highest quality compost but is usable
at a lower quality after one and two years.



Graeme 

 

---Original Message---

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: 01/03/05 07:08:59

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF.

 

Hi Kim ;

 

LOF is Liquid Organic Fertilizer or what Keith calls

Household Compost Activator, in other words, urine.

 

Yes I guess I could put in some grass or leaves, which

is what most recipies call for.  But two problems with

that.  One is I live in a concrete  village.  There is

no grass or trees anywhere.  That is no exageration.

I don't have a front yard or back yard.  Just concrete

everywhere.  Nobody around here ever has grass to cut,

so I can't just pick up someone elses cuttings either.

  In order to get some grass I would need to get in my

truck, drive a kilometers, stop on some else'e

property and start cutting away.  Lot's of free

sawdust fines though.

 

Secondly, for my project in the near future, I will

have LOT's of wood after the hammer mill but not so

much greens.  This is more a learning excersize.

 

So I'm just investigating the possiblities of no

grass, ONLY sawdust and LOF.  The wood is carbon, and

the LOF is the nitrogen, and it should be possible if

I can keep it aerated.  Is it?  What ratio?

 

Truthfully, there are also a few small table scraps,

but very little.  I live with my daughter and there is

normally only a watermelon or orange peel per day.

Let's ignore that for the time being.

 

If this doesn't work, I will go grass cutting, but

please humor me first.  It should be possible with

just sawdust and LOF. Is it?   What ratio?  How much

time?  Is strong ammonia smell normal?  Is very little

heat normal (I think not)?

 

Once I get a formula and procedure that looks correct,

  I will do a 55 gallon drum.  Already got the drum.

 

Best Regards,

 

Peter G.

Thailand

 

 

 

--- Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 

> While I am not sure what LOF is, I have used the

> very fine sawdust that I

> get from my table saw in my compost.  Mine is used

> in our toilet buckets

> first, but it must be mixed with something that has

> a little more fiber or

> it compacts.  Compaction in a compost pile means no

> oxygen, which is a

> problem.  Mix some grass, well mulched into the mix

> and it should work better.

> Bright Blessings,

> Kim

>

> At 06:06 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote:

> >Hi Keith ;

> >

> >Since I plan on making lots of compost from wood, I

> >thought I would start experimenting with the

> abundant

> >and free sawdust from next door.

> >

> >I read the pages on JtF, but none comes close to my

> >situation.  The sawdust is REALLY fine, like

> blowing

> >sand.  I will use a fly screen to keep it from

> coming

> >out the container holes.  It should compost quickly

> >because particle size is so small, if I can keep it

> >aerated.

> >

> >Could you recommend a mix ratio and procedure only

> >using sawdust and LOF to start?  I am using a 10

> gal

> >pail, turn it every day, and I get a strong smell

> of

> >ammonia after a few days.  Not too much heat at

> all,

> >only a little.

> >

> >Best Regards,

> >

> >Peter G.

> >Thailand

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >__

> >Do you Yahoo!?

> >Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do

> good.

> >http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com

> >___

> >Biofuel mailing list

> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> >http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel

> >

> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:

> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

> >

> >Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):

> >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

>

> ___

> Biofuel mailing list

> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel

>

> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:

> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

>

> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):

> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

>

 

 

 

 

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[Biofuel] Tsunami relief Clean water

[John Miggins]

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reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

focus on this list although some of the diversions are quite educational

In the end, what binds us all together is our desire  for the common 
comforts of life, the very things that these victims in Asia are lacking. 
We can talk about it or we can atempt to do something real about it.  Pass 
this info to those who might be able to build these for victims.

Those needs in order of priority are:

Clean Water,
Food,
Shelter,
Warmth, etc...


Here is a simple water purification device that can be made from black 
plastic, glass and some wood to take pond water and distill it into 
drinkable water.  These system are commercially available or we can sponsor 
sending the plans and getting local material from salvage to make these 
systems.  Here is a plan if any one interested or can pass this along to 
victims somehow.

http://www.txses.org/epsea/stills.html


http://www.txses.org/epsea/pdf/borderpact.pdf

Logistcally it would be hard to do anything else except donate money.

Here is website on some commercial companies making these and others, wonder 
if they are doing anything for these victims?
www.solaqua.com

http://survival-trapping-fishing.com/solar.htm


OPERATION

Solar energy is allowed into the collector to heat the water. The water 
evaporates only to condense on the underside of the glass. When water 
evaporates, only the water vapor rises, leaving contaminants behind. The 
gentle slope of the glass directs the condensate to a collection trough, 
which in turn delivers the water to the collection bottle.






John Miggins
Harvest Solar & Wind Power
"renewable solutions to everyday needs"
www.harvest-energy.com
Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
Cell: 918-521-6223

- Original Message - 
From: "Pannir P.V" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "GPECBIOMASS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Greeting to all


To all beloved list members

 This year has passed with terrific tusame and Asiatic earth quack.
This biofuel list is an valuable forum bringing together the south ,
north , east and west , the young newcomer as well as the experienced
people.
 In this new year I visited the poor people house  in the
Northeast  part of Brasil.
Even though electric power is available, as  they do not have money to
pay , the poor people here are successful  in using 50 percent
kerosene and 50 percent diesel as cheap fuel using age old Lamperine
lamp as an aternative to electrical one as money for food has more
value than for fuel..In future surely we biofuel members can
contribute  to solve  the rural energy crisis A special thanks and
admiration for the dedicated  work of our list  leader Keith,beloved
kind leader leader of all of us  , to make our list as uniquely
balanced international  forum to  provide useful solution to  rural
energy crisis.Surely 2005 or list  can  do better  tthan 2004 , if all
of us can spent  some time to our group and  giving the heping hand.

I wish a happy 2005 and look forward  exchange of information not only
biofuel for rural region , but also our list members projects  for
ruralization of urban areas, of curse certainly with the useful
ecologically sound biofuel projects

Pannirselvam
Brasil


On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 17:10:44 +0100, Hakan Falk
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The year that passed has been interesting and with many challenging 
> events.
> The biofuel list, for me, is a very valuable forum for a community that
> consist of a uniquely balanced international representation of mature and
> experienced people. I want to wish you all a Happy New Year and look
> forward to the coming exchanges of opinions in year 2005. A special thanks
> and admiration to Keith and his very professional job as moderator.
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
>


-- 
Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Qu’mica - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de P—s Gradua‹o em Engenharia Qu’mica - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC

Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universit‡rio
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Residence :
Av  Odilon gome de lima, 2951,
 Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 Capim  Macio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20
  2171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20
   2171557
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Re: [Biofuel] more on the quality test

[John Guttridge]

Appal Energy wrote:
Well, I got my report back from Magellan Midstream. My sample tested 
as follows:



That was rather quick.. Glad Ms. Alovert was able to direct you to a 
place that can give you answers quickly, as well as precisely. Which 
sample did you submit?


this was quoted from the link right below it as indicated by the  
and  around it, I apologize if that is not clear.





0.002 mass% Free Glycerin
0.940 mass% Monoglyceride
1.084 mass% Diglyceride
3.911 mass% Triglyceride
0.815 mass% Tot. Glycerin



And just what is it that you see wrong with these numbers?


this is an example of fuel without high enough mono or di glycerides to 
fail the wash test but high enough triglycerides to push it out of spec.


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Re: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF.

[Graeme Vagg]

Peter,



Good compost needs a mixture of materials with a Carbon/Nitrogen ratio of
about 30 to 1 by dry weight.  Sawdust has a high Carbon content (C/N ratio
of about 450) so must be balanced with other materials with high Nitrogen
and lower Carbon.  Chicken or cow manure, food wastes, grass or weeds in
larger quantities will balance it.



Graeme

 

---Original Message---

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: 01/02/05 23:11:38

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF.

 

Hi Keith ;

 

Since I plan on making lots of compost from wood, I

thought I would start experimenting with the abundant

and free sawdust from next door.

 

I read the pages on JtF, but none comes close to my

situation.  The sawdust is REALLY fine, like blowing

sand.  I will use a fly screen to keep it from coming

out the container holes.  It should compost quickly

because particle size is so small, if I can keep it

aerated.

 

Could you recommend a mix ratio and procedure only

using sawdust and LOF to start?  I am using a 10 gal

pail, turn it every day, and I get a strong smell of

ammonia after a few days.  Not too much heat at all,

only a little.

 

Best Regards,

 

Peter G.

Thailand

 

 

 

 

__

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Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.

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RE: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF.

[Peggy]

Hello composting and soil enhancing enthusiasts,

Impregnating the compost mix with mycelia can potentiate excellent
beneficial breakdowns of the substrate and release additional nutrients
for the seed as was recently discussed in the mushroom emails on this
forum.  New experimentation and documented results continue to build a
reference library within Paul Stament's student's applications and
commercial activities.  He also sells mushroom "kits".  (And you can
make your own "kits" for 5 cents on the dollar is you have a way/ or
build a way to steam the substrate.) Different varieties of mushrooms
grow better in various parts of the world, so the ideal mushroom for
your area may be different than in other areas.  Hopefully many of you
will consider microbial/ mycological enhancements to your compost.  You
can take spore samples off of any fruited cap and then by inoculating a
small substrate, grow a good base to spread within a composted mass.
Then that mixture can and will provide an even more enhanced soil than
your basic composted material.  Luckily, we have a nearby mushroom farm
that sells its compost.  You might also look for this kind of "waste" to
bring into your mix if you can locate a mushroom farm in your area.

Best wishes,
Peggy

Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF.

Hello Peter,

I will be following your efforts closely, as I'm sure others will.  I
have
contracted with a small town here in Minnesota to build, and install,
some
rotating barrel composters (5) in their city garden/compost area in late
March of this year.  In this area, we have no shortage of materials for
composting, but I am always interested in learning of new processes as
they
relate to composting.

Having never composted wood or sawdust myself, I'm afraid I am lacking
in
actual hands on experience with these particular materials.  However, I
do
have experience composting, and will help you with as much as I can.
You
will need to incorporate some sort of media/fibrous material to fight
compaction.  Since I understand your area to be "concrete infested",
some
ideas that come to mind are;  newspaper shreds (black and white
newsprint:
hand shredded not too small, then loosely crumpled), perhaps non-colored
cardboard (again hand torn approx. 2" x 6" lengths and then loosely
crumpled), if you can get some hay, or straw, either would be okay.

It's clear, from reading your post, that you understand what's required.
Now it's simply a matter of time and effort.  Anyway, I'm looking
forward to
reading about your efforts, and good luck in your endeavors.

AntiFossil
Mike Krafka
Minnesota USA

> Hi Kim ;
>
> LOF is Liquid Organic Fertilizer or what Keith calls
> Household Compost Activator, in other words, urine.
>
> Yes I guess I could put in some grass or leaves, which
> is what most recipies call for.  But two problems with
> that.  One is I live in a concrete  village.  There is
> no grass or trees anywhere.  That is no exageration.
> I don't have a front yard or back yard.  Just concrete
> everywhere.  Nobody around here ever has grass to cut,
> so I can't just pick up someone elses cuttings either.
>  In order to get some grass I would need to get in my
> truck, drive a kilometers, stop on some else'e
> property and start cutting away.  Lot's of free
> sawdust fines though.
>
> Secondly, for my project in the near future, I will
> have LOT's of wood after the hammer mill but not so
> much greens.  This is more a learning excersize.
>
> So I'm just investigating the possiblities of no
> grass, ONLY sawdust and LOF.  The wood is carbon, and
> the LOF is the nitrogen, and it should be possible if
> I can keep it aerated.  Is it?  What ratio?
>
> Truthfully, there are also a few small table scraps,
> but very little.  I live with my daughter and there is
> normally only a watermelon or orange peel per day.
> Let's ignore that for the time being.
>
> If this doesn't work, I will go grass cutting, but
> please humor me first.  It should be possible with
> just sawdust and LOF. Is it?   What ratio?  How much
> time?  Is strong ammonia smell normal?  Is very little
> heat normal (I think not)?
>
> Once I get a formula and procedure that looks correct,
>  I will do a 55 gallon drum.  Already got the drum.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Peter G.
> Thailand
>
>
>
> --- Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > While I am not sure what LOF is, I have used the
> > very fine sawdust that I
> > get from my table saw in my compost.  Mine is used
> > in our toilet buckets
> > first, but it must be mixed with something that has
> > a little more fiber or
> > it compacts.  Compaction in a compost pile means no
> > oxygen, which is a
> > problem.  Mix some grass, well mulched into the mix
> > and it should work better.
> > Bright Blessings,
> > Kim
> >
> > At 06:06 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote:
> > >Hi Keith ;
> > >
> > >Since I plan on making lots of compost from wood, I
> > >thought I would start experimenting with the
> > abundant
> > 

Re: [Biofuel] Sorel Boots

[Anti-Fossil]

Thanks Luc !

*
"If you think you are too small to make a
difference try sleeping with a mosquito."
Dalai Lama
*


- Original Message - 
From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sorel Boots


> G'da Mike;
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Anti-Fossil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 8:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sorel Boots
>
>
> > Hi Keith, Philip, and other list members,
> >
> > I am going to take this further.  Perhaps I will look at America, and
> > Canada, for starters.  I am mostly interested in things like hand tools,
> > clothing (kids school clothes, men's and women's active wear, work
> > clothes,
> > undergarments, etc.) lawn and garden items, etc.  Already reads like a
> > Wal-mart isle, doesn't it?
>
> You can start here:
> Canada Goose : http://www.metrosportswear.com/
> Woods Canada: http://www.woodscanada.com/products/outerwear/9124.htm
>
> Luc
>
> > I want to see my family's need's sourced as close to home as possible
> > because that makes the most sense.  It makes sense financially.  It
makes
> > sense environmentally.  It makes sense strategically.  It makes sense
> > tactically.  Would I cross a national border to purchase an item simply
> > because it can be had for less money over "there"?  For lower price
alone,
> > absolutely not.  For better quality.  For a better value.  These last
two
> > I
> > would consider, yes.
> >
> > AntiFossil
> > Mike Krafka
> > Minnesota USA
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Biofuel mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> >
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/

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Re: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF.

[Anti-Fossil]

Hello Peter,

I will be following your efforts closely, as I'm sure others will.  I have
contracted with a small town here in Minnesota to build, and install, some
rotating barrel composters (5) in their city garden/compost area in late
March of this year.  In this area, we have no shortage of materials for
composting, but I am always interested in learning of new processes as they
relate to composting.

Having never composted wood or sawdust myself, I'm afraid I am lacking in
actual hands on experience with these particular materials.  However, I do
have experience composting, and will help you with as much as I can.  You
will need to incorporate some sort of media/fibrous material to fight
compaction.  Since I understand your area to be "concrete infested", some
ideas that come to mind are;  newspaper shreds (black and white newsprint:
hand shredded not too small, then loosely crumpled), perhaps non-colored
cardboard (again hand torn approx. 2" x 6" lengths and then loosely
crumpled), if you can get some hay, or straw, either would be okay.

It's clear, from reading your post, that you understand what's required.
Now it's simply a matter of time and effort.  Anyway, I'm looking forward to
reading about your efforts, and good luck in your endeavors.

AntiFossil
Mike Krafka
Minnesota USA



*
"If you think you are too small to make a
difference try sleeping with a mosquito."
Dalai Lama
*


- Original Message - 
From: "Guag Meister" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Compost with sawdust and LOF.


> Hi Kim ;
>
> LOF is Liquid Organic Fertilizer or what Keith calls
> Household Compost Activator, in other words, urine.
>
> Yes I guess I could put in some grass or leaves, which
> is what most recipies call for.  But two problems with
> that.  One is I live in a concrete  village.  There is
> no grass or trees anywhere.  That is no exageration.
> I don't have a front yard or back yard.  Just concrete
> everywhere.  Nobody around here ever has grass to cut,
> so I can't just pick up someone elses cuttings either.
>  In order to get some grass I would need to get in my
> truck, drive a kilometers, stop on some else'e
> property and start cutting away.  Lot's of free
> sawdust fines though.
>
> Secondly, for my project in the near future, I will
> have LOT's of wood after the hammer mill but not so
> much greens.  This is more a learning excersize.
>
> So I'm just investigating the possiblities of no
> grass, ONLY sawdust and LOF.  The wood is carbon, and
> the LOF is the nitrogen, and it should be possible if
> I can keep it aerated.  Is it?  What ratio?
>
> Truthfully, there are also a few small table scraps,
> but very little.  I live with my daughter and there is
> normally only a watermelon or orange peel per day.
> Let's ignore that for the time being.
>
> If this doesn't work, I will go grass cutting, but
> please humor me first.  It should be possible with
> just sawdust and LOF. Is it?   What ratio?  How much
> time?  Is strong ammonia smell normal?  Is very little
> heat normal (I think not)?
>
> Once I get a formula and procedure that looks correct,
>  I will do a 55 gallon drum.  Already got the drum.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Peter G.
> Thailand
>
>
>
> --- Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > While I am not sure what LOF is, I have used the
> > very fine sawdust that I
> > get from my table saw in my compost.  Mine is used
> > in our toilet buckets
> > first, but it must be mixed with something that has
> > a little more fiber or
> > it compacts.  Compaction in a compost pile means no
> > oxygen, which is a
> > problem.  Mix some grass, well mulched into the mix
> > and it should work better.
> > Bright Blessings,
> > Kim
> >
> > At 06:06 AM 1/2/2005, you wrote:
> > >Hi Keith ;
> > >
> > >Since I plan on making lots of compost from wood, I
> > >thought I would start experimenting with the
> > abundant
> > >and free sawdust from next door.
> > >
> > >I read the pages on JtF, but none comes close to my
> > >situation.  The sawdust is REALLY fine, like
> > blowing
> > >sand.  I will use a fly screen to keep it from
> > coming
> > >out the container holes.  It should compost quickly
> > >because particle size is so small, if I can keep it
> > >aerated.
> > >
> > >Could you recommend a mix ratio and procedure only
> > >using sawdust and LOF to start?  I am using a 10
> > gal
> > >pail, turn it every day, and I get a strong smell
> > of
> > >ammonia after a few days.  Not too much heat at
> > all,
> > >only a little.
> > >
> > >Best Regards,
> > >
> > >Peter G.
> > >Thailand
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__
> > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > >Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do
> > good.
> > >http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
> > >___

RE: [Biofuel] Anyone know anything about this on ebay?

[Mel Riser]

As far as I can tell I haven’t gotten a response back.

I too would be interested if it works well.

Price seems reasonable for a turn key system.

See if he will respond to your email John.

mel

-Original Message-
From: Busyditch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anyone know anything about this on ebay?


He is not too far from me, might be worth looking onto and picking it up myself.
- Original Message - 
From: "John Mullan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 6:46 AM
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Anyone know anything about this on ebay?


> I haven't ventured this far in my quest, but I'd really love to hear 
> if anyone picks up one of these units.  If it works satisfactorily, 
> I'd be willing to buy one.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: December 31, 2004 7:04 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone know anything about this on ebay?
>
>
>
> Hey,
> Saw this on ebay...
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11809&item=3864167546
> &rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
> anybodys opinion on this?
> Don
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>
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> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/


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