Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel
Hello Keith. The system that I am referring to is described at: http://www.elsbett.com/engl/index.htm Technology/ 4. The ELSBETT duothermic combustion system. Quoting: Only by combining the above mentioned elements it is possible to achieve the optimum thermal and mechanical conditions required for the combustion of fuels, such as natural vegetable oils, which are slow to vaporise. These guys have a lot of know-how which is highly relevant for the combustion of SVO:s. With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel Hello Jan Hello Lyn. Yes, you are missing something. The main problem with SVO as diesel engine fuel is not the high viscosity, but the final boiling point and the low cetane number. Elsbett system have taken action before these disadvantages and have designed a dual air system in the combustion chamber of the piston. This makes it possible to combust SVO completely, since the outer air layer isolates from the inner air layer, where the combustion temperature is high enough. And although the engine is directly injected, it is equipped with pre-chamber injectors, on which coke will form, but works self-cleansing due to the typical design of pre-chamber injectors. Are you talking about the original Elsbett 3-cylinder multifuel diesel engine? Best wishes Keith Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB jan at carryon.se + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - I went to the site that Keith recommended and it looks fantastic. What this maker Elsbett sells is a one tank system you can put anything from WVO to Dino into. If such a system exists, why are people bothing to make biodiesel? It would be easier, more ecological, economical etc to just use vegetable oil. I think about this problem both in the ecolological sense and the Peak oil sense. Particularly with the latter, the fewer things you have to buy, the less exposure you have to being gouged by corporations exploiting scarcity. Anyone with access to a few acres of land and a home made oil press can create fuel out of a variety of easy to grow crops. Am I missing something? Lyn Elsbett. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel Don't get some two-tank system that probably has copper parts in it and all it does is pre-heat the oil to lower the viscosity, there's a lot more to it than that, even with a Merc. forgetting to) - switch on and go, stop and switch off, SVO, biodiesel or petro-diesel, in any combination. We've had a two-tank system for a couple of years but we never used it. I just didn't think it addressed the problem fully, and the more I learnt the more I thought so. A few months ago we installed a single-tank Elsbett system in our Toyota TownAce and we're most pleased with it. It does exactly what it claims to do, as we fully expected. http://www.elsbett.com Best wishes Keith On 25 Jun 2005 at 8:46, John Hayes wrote: You have the 'SVO destroyed my TDI' folks. And the 'SVO is just fine' pollyannas. I went to the TDIclub site as well. I probably only saw a fraction of the posts, and what I saw made me realize that I didn't really do Mike's question justice with my previous answer, so this will be long in an attempt to provide more substantive info. I researched WVO for a while and decided upon the Jetta TDI, which I bought specifically with the intent of doing a WVO conversion. I chose the Jetta even though the golf or beetle would have been more to my personal taste, because the consensus seemed to be that it was desirable to isolate the WVO tank from the passenger area because the tank is heated - a hot metal tank of oil being not the most desirable presence in a passenger compartment There are a variety of systems and kits and ways that people have done these conversions and I have no doubt people have ruined their TDI's with WVO. The TDI has very close tolerances, also why it its such a high performance engine. From what I have gathered, gumming up the injectors with WVO is one of the serious risks. Critical issues in the system then are well filtered WVO and that it be HOT. Just to clarify matters for any readers, a WVO system is a 2 tank system. Do not ever consider just pouring WVO into your regular fuel tank - that will destroy your TDI. The system I have has : a heated WVO tank and fuel lines (the lines are heated by being bundled beside a line filled with engine coolant) , a filter for the WVO (which has already been prefiltered the remove the obvious particulate
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel
Hello Jan Hello Keith. The system that I am referring to is described at: http://www.elsbett.com/engl/index.htm Technology/ 4. The ELSBETT duothermic combustion system. Quoting: Only by combining the above mentioned elements it is possible to achieve the optimum thermal and mechanical conditions required for the combustion of fuels, such as natural vegetable oils, which are slow to vaporise. These guys have a lot of know-how which is highly relevant for the combustion of SVO:s. Definitely, I doubt anyone else even comes close. They've been involved in it for so long. However, just to clarify it for others following this thread, obviously the duothermic combustion system is not part of the Elsbett single-tank SVO conversion kit. Main components of the kit are: different injector nozzles (manufactured by Elsbett, with a different spray pattern and angle); different glowplugs; coolant heat exchanger, electric filter heater; extra fuel filter (the two filters operate in parallel); temperature sensor; electronic relays for the filter heater and glow plugs; new fuel lines. And you have to increase the injection pump pressure. A couple of friends helped us install the system in our TownAce. One of them had already installed one in his Golf (the guy I mentioned yesterday with the horrible oil). I'm very reluctant to mess with a car's electrical system (though I've repaired starter motors and alternators and so on when I've had to), but he works for IBM, no mystery to him. But they did some strange things, messy and chaotic. There's not much room inside the engine compartment, much less than a car. I managed to make some brackets so we could squeeze in the extra filter (they wanted to leave it out), though I didn't like it much. They decided to fit the coolant heat exchanger *outside* the car, mounted behind the left front wheel. Hm. I didn't like that at all. The relays were fitted under the cubby-hole in the dashboard, there were pipes and wires going every which way in the engine compartment, it looked like a plate of spaghetti. It worked, but in the end we went over everything again, from end to end, with a mechanic friend we work with (and send work to), a very good guy. There were wrong pipes in the wrong places and so on, just as well we checked. We ended up reinstalling it, putting both filters, plus a particle filter replacing the one inside the tank, the coolant heat exchanger and the relays on a steel frame in the dead space behind the front passenger seat. It looks like a bit of industrial sculpture or something, definitely a talking point for passengers. Much more sensible, plenty of space in the engine compartment now, and we only used about half as much fuel line. I'll post some photographs soon. Best wishes Keith With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel Hello Jan Hello Lyn. Yes, you are missing something. The main problem with SVO as diesel engine fuel is not the high viscosity, but the final boiling point and the low cetane number. Elsbett system have taken action before these disadvantages and have designed a dual air system in the combustion chamber of the piston. This makes it possible to combust SVO completely, since the outer air layer isolates from the inner air layer, where the combustion temperature is high enough. And although the engine is directly injected, it is equipped with pre-chamber injectors, on which coke will form, but works self-cleansing due to the typical design of pre-chamber injectors. Are you talking about the original Elsbett 3-cylinder multifuel diesel engine? Best wishes Keith Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB jan at carryon.se + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - I went to the site that Keith recommended and it looks fantastic. What this maker Elsbett sells is a one tank system you can put anything from WVO to Dino into. If such a system exists, why are people bothing to make biodiesel? It would be easier, more ecological, economical etc to just use vegetable oil. I think about this problem both in the ecolological sense and the Peak oil sense. Particularly with the latter, the fewer things you have to buy, the less exposure you have to being gouged by corporations exploiting scarcity. Anyone with access to a few acres of land and a home made oil press can create fuel out of a variety of easy to grow crops. Am I missing something? Lyn Elsbett. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel Don't get some two-tank system that probably has copper parts in it and all it does is pre-heat the oil to lower the viscosity, there's a lot more to it than
RE: [Biofuel] Re: New thread - the Vikings.....
Fred, You read Swedish, so the article, http://www.fof.se/?id=043jPress should not have been a problem for you. History is both a very interesting and important subject and at its best hen it is shared by many. We all are subject to history and that it is almost always colored by the winners during certain periods. It is a petty to take those discussions off line, because it limits the exposure and possibilities of corrections. I can only talk about what I learned and it is probably one version of many and I rather stop this discussion, than reduce it to a two version discussion. For me, history is a fun puzzle with several true solutions. You also know that Gotland (the land of the Goth) is an island in the Baltic sea, about the size of the Spanish islands of Ibiza and Mallorca. Long bows is a distinct weapon of the Roman army, that was at the Nordic borders of the Roman empire, like in bow and arrow. It was not used in middle and Northern Europe and this serves as an archeological identification. This legion disappeared around 200 AD. It is not a ship design, if any misunderstood this. . That Gotland became the home of the first Vikings, is natural. The story you pointed us to, spans over several hundreds of years and it is some timing problems with it. The Roman empire seized to exists in the middle of the century 400 AD and still it is mentioned known Viking Kings by Jordanes, claimed to be a Roman, that belongs to a period which is several hundreds years later? The Vikings major populations was on Gotland and also around Upsala, north of Stockholm. This history, claimed by Jordanes, is very logical in its Geography and too easy to map by a current European. It is more likely that it can be questioned, than blaming some Christian manipulation. It is however clear manipulation by Christians priests, when it comes to the sagas by the Viking Gods. This is especially due to the habit of missionaries to maintain feasts and holidays, but give them Christian meanings. For the Vikings it was especially the feasts of mid winter and mid summer, which translates to Santa Lucia and a multitude of saints for mid summer. Here locally in Catalonia, Spain, mid summer is the fiesta of Sant Juan. Only a side paragraph about the original Same population of the Nordic countries, which probably came by land and the East. The Baltic Sea was regularly frozen in the past, which allowed for easy access from the East. The Same population have distinct features common with the Mongols and Chinese. This is also the case for natives of northern US and Canada. Those population movements are much earlier than the Vikings. Hakan At 03:33 AM 6/27/2005, you wrote: Hello All, I have refrained from this thread until now. What you are saying here is a mish-mash of the Snorri version of the origin of Odin, mixed with the basic folk movements. Snorri, to keep the Christian Church happy at the time he transcribed the Sagas etc, stated that Odin and the Aesir moved to Scandinavia from Troy !!! To obtain a better historical view, for a start, read the Origins of the Goths, written by a late day Roman, Jordanes, http://www.boudicca.de/jordanes0-e.htm here you can see the names and locations of the people who were in pre-pre-pre Viking Scandinavia. Jordanes states clearly the people living in Scandinavia were the long before the Romans, and we have in Norway Stone age villages, bronze age villages and Iron age sites. The Longship design can be see evolving in our cave drawings totally independent from Rome Similarly The origins of the Dutch http://www.boudicca.de/frisian1.htm The original Scandinavian Peoples (there are more than one) arrived in Norway, Sweden and Denmark some 14,000 years ago from Central point of the Caucasus. On the way, they mingled with the Finno Ungaro people and produced the current blends. The origins of the runic writing system are different from the origins of the people, and are indeed common with some runes found in Turkey. Concerning the development of the longships, the Viking technology is domestically developed and can be seen in the gradual evolution of the design from around the Baltic over centuries, and includes the versions that the Saxons used. As a further point concerning the Vikings ability to innovate, visit the State museum in Copenhagen and see the Viking wagon fitted with wooden roller bearings...nuff said. If anyone would like to continue this thread, I am more than happy to continue off line. Cheers Fred Enga -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Hakan Falk Sent: June 26, 2005 6:00 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: New thread - the Vikings. Bob, The Vikings are interesting, also because they were very good in physiological warfare. I did find an article about that they probably came from the middle east, but it is in Swedish, http://www.fof.se/?id=043jPress It is a well known and
[Biofuel] The Overstory #156 - Permaculture Principles
Permaculture can be a mixed bag, much depends on who's doing it. At it's best it's good stuff. A Permaculturist we're friendly with here has a nice set-up, but he doesn't think much of quite a number of other efforts, and neither do we. That's what I've found elsewhere too. Actually you'll find it all in organics anyway, as at the books in our Small Farms Library: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html Keith -- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 00:21:49 -1000 From: The Overstory [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The Overstory #156--Permaculture Principles The Overstory #156 - Permaculture Principles By David Holmgren :: The Overstory Book, 2nd Edition, a formatted, indexed and illustrated compilation of The Overstory ejournal editions 1 - 138 is in stock. Your purchase helps support publication of The Overstory: http://www.agroforestry.net/overstory/ovbook.html ADDRESS CHANGES: Please send any changes in your e-mail address to [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: The Overstory #156 - Permaculture Principles By David Holmgren Contents: : INTRODUCTION : Principle 1: OBSERVE AND INTERACT : Principle 2: CATCH AND STORE ENERGY : Principle 3: OBTAIN A YIELD : Principle 4: APPLY SELF-REGULATION AND ACCEPT FEEDBACK : Principle 5: USE AND VALUE RENEWABLE RESOURCES AND SERVICES : Principle 6: PRODUCE NO WASTE : Principle 7: DESIGN FROM PATTERNS TO DETAILS : Principle 8: INTEGRATE RATHER THAN SEGREGATE : Principle 9: USE SMALL AND SLOW SOLUTIONS : Principle 10: USE AND VALUE DIVERSITY : Principle 11: USE EDGES AND VALUE THE MARGINAL : Principle 12: CREATIVELY USE AND RESPOND TO CHANGE : REFERENCES : ORIGINAL SOURCE : ABOUT THE AUTHOR : RELATED EDITIONS OF THE OVERSTORY : PUBLISHER NOTES : SUBSCRIPTIONS INTRODUCTION Permaculture principles are brief statements or slogans that can be remembered as a checklist when considering the complex options for design and evolution of ecological support systems. These principles can be seen as universal, although the methods that express them will vary greatly according to place and situation. Fundamentally, permaculture design principles arise from a way of perceiving the world that is often described as 'systems thinking' and 'design thinking.' Principle 1: OBSERVE AND INTERACT Good design depends on a free and harmonious relationship between nature and people, in which careful observation and thoughtful interaction provide the design inspiration, repertoire and patterns. It is not something that is generated in isolation, but through continuous and reciprocal interaction with the subject. Within more conservative and socially bonded agrarian communities, the ability of some individuals to stand back from, observe and interpret both traditional and modern methods of land use, is a powerful tool in evolving new and more appropriate systems. While complete change within communities is always more difficult for a host of reasons, the presence of locally evolved models, with its roots in the best of traditional and modern ecological design, is more likely to be successful than a pre-designed system introduced from outside. Further, a diversity of such local models would naturally generate innovative elements which can cross-fertilise similar innovations elsewhere. Principle 2: CATCH AND STORE ENERGY We live in a world of unprecedented wealth resulting from the harvesting of the enormous storages of fossil fuels created by the earth over billions of years. We have used some of this wealth to increase our harvest of the Earth's renewable resources to an unsustainable degree. Most of the adverse impacts of this over-harvesting will show up as available fossil fuels decline. In financial language, we have been living by consuming global capital in a reckless manner that would send any business bankrupt. Inappropriate concepts of wealth have led us to ignore opportunities to capture local flows of both renewable and non-renewable forms of energy. Identifying and acting on these opportunities can provide the energy with which we can rebuild capital, as well as provide us with an income for our immediate needs. Some of the sources of energy include: * Sun, wind and runoff water flows * Wasted resources from agricultural, industrial and commercial activities The most important storages of future value include: * Fertile soil with high humus content * Perennial vegetation systems, especially trees, yield food and other useful resources * Water bodies and tanks * Passive solar buildings Principle 3: OBTAIN A YIELD The previous principle focused our attention on the need to use existing wealth to make long-term investments in natural capital. But there is no point in attempting to plant a forest for the grandchildren if we haven't got enough to eat today. This principle reminds us that we should design any system to provide for self-reliance at all levels (including ourselves), by using captured and stored
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel
Lyn Gerry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I went to the site that Keith recommended and it looks fantastic. What this maker Elsbett sells is a one tank system you can put anything from WVO to Dino into. If such a system exists, why are people bothing to make biodiesel? It would be easier, more ecological, economical etc to just use vegetable oil.I think about this problem both in the ecolological sense and the Peak oil sense. Particularly with the latter, the fewer things you have to buy, the less exposure you have to being gouged by corporations exploiting scarcity. Anyone with access to a few acres of land and a home made oil press can create fuel out of a variety of easy to grow crops.Am I missing something?Lyn Elsbett. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel snip Lyn, IMO, peoplewill still process biodiesel for pure enjoyment among other reasons. Many times it is not just aboutsaving money, but the personal satisfaction of seeing your own homemade quality fuelput to use. Quality biodiesel can also be used in other applications as well,not just fordiesel cars. People are heating their homes with it too. Thereare many more applications that it can be used for where a system such as the one Elsbett produces wouldnot be applicable. Just my thoughts. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
back in the day, travel was not an easy affair (relatively speaking), given the lack of roads, lodging and transport (other than on foot), etc., not to mention the income with which to fund such travels. nevertheless, there wasn't anything to really stop one if one had a mind to. Before the Black Death serfs were bound to their lords, not allowed to leave, move house or marry with his permission. Serfdom was just another name for slavery. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Gilded cage
Yes, but how does a person BREAK OUT of this cage?? All I want is to be left alone to my own peacefull way of life. I do no harm to myself or others, but the man can't let me live un-oppressed. Know any lawers that will work for the little person? David wood -Original Message- From: r [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 23:54:44 -0400 Subject: [Biofuel] Gilded cage The American society is in a gilded cage. So sad. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Magnesol
Chris Sommerfeld wrote: I manage a small biodiesel lab at a school here in the Bahamas. We currently make about 250 gal a week. Within the next month we plan to expand to make about 450 gal a week. We are always looking for new ways to improve our processing. Currently we use bubble washing in the wash/dry stage. Water is very presious for us and I am intersted in using Magnesol instead of water to purify our fuel. [snip] Just out of interest, why don't you build a small solar desalination system - besides the financial reasons, I thought the reason people when to the Bahama's was for sunshine!!! I'm sure Keith probably has squirreled away on JtoF plans for a low tech solar desalination system that would provide you with the water you need. If JtoF has nothing, get back to me, I know of a simple setup that could probably be made for a couple of hundred dollars. Regards, Andrew Lowe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: New thread - the Vikings.....
howdy folks, I know this thread is far afield of biofuel, so if it is taken off-list, please include me. I am half swedish, my maternal grandparents being from Kilanda, Sweden, and emigrated to the usa around the end of the 19th century. thanks Hi Hakan, The Vikings have an intriguing history (if you don't mind my putting in my twopence worth). Originally a collection of pagan seafarers, the Vikings developed into a military force when they struck easy pickings in the wake of the Roman pullout from their northern colonies, including England. From about the Eighth Century onwards, driven by overpopulation at home and attracted by the relative helplessness of the abandoned Roman colonies, they spilled out from the Scandinavian homelands - today demarcated by Denmark, Norway and Sweden - in small fleets of war canoes that swept across much of the known world. In Europe, mostly around the sea coasts, they raped, pillaged and destroyed much of the post-Roman culture, bringing about the so-called Dark Ages in which literacy was kept alive in a few isolated monastries that escaped the invaders. They invaded the British isles in force and also set up settlements in Greenland, Iceland and North America. Their kings ruled in Ireland, England and Scotland and also held sway over the Atlantic Ocean islands of the Orkneys, the Faroes, the Shetlands and the Isle of Man. The Duchy of Normandy in France was founded by Vikings. Their war canoes also raided as far south as the Mediterranean and some Viking chiefs set up trade treaties with the Greeks. Eastwards they penetrated far into Russia (the name Russia is from the Scandinavian word Rus). and were for a time dominant in the Russian cities of Novgorod, Kiev and other centres. They were finally stopped at the borders of the Byzantine Empire, founded on Constantinople. The Byzantine was the eastern half of the Roman Empire that survived for a thousand years after the west had collapsed. The Vikings were so highly regarded by the Byzantines that they served as mercenaries to the Emperor in the form of the famed, and feared,Varingian Guard. The Vikings faded as a military force at the end of the 11 century just as European nationhood began to arise and with it the use of trained armies. However they left traces of their culture, and genes, throughout most of the western world. In England today, in any town north of line across the English midlands, you will still find Scandinavian influences in the local accent, with Newcastle being the most heavily accented from standard English. English towns with names ending in by (as in Whitby, Newby) indicate their Viking origins. Given the history of the Brits, and the number of blondes and redheads among them, the Vikings obviously also left a lot behind a lot of their seafaring and fighting genes. Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next? Chris, Maybe I am adding more to it than it is, but the connection is there. A very common Viking name, that we know existed from the Vikings and I think that it was a Hakon in the Ericsson crew, that discovered America. The Roman Empire and their conscript armies, was going far up North in Europe, including England. When it comes to my name, I am very sure. I discussed this with some people from Turkey and that were those who made me aware of the similarities between the rune stones and the Turkish writings. I saved the link to the web site, but lost it when my old computer crashed. If you find it, tell me, because I have not looked for it since then. Regarding my name, it made something clear and that was why I got so many email in Turkish. If you then start to look at the Viking villages, with its clear structure of advanced military fortifications etc. It also explain the mobility of the Vikings, the highly sophisticated shipping and navigation knowledge. The question is, from where came the Vikings and their tales about far away countries and Gods. It is two years since I looked closer on this, but I will see if I can find something again. Hakan At 08:06 PM 6/26/2005, you wrote: hello, hakan. ok, i thought you meant something along those lines. still, i don't get the link between the roman legions and the turks. or are you referring to the byzantines (if so, they didn't have 'legions')? i'll have to try and google the website you speak of, and see what they say. though, unless i'm reading more into it than you mean to suggest, i must say it seems highly dubious. -chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the
Re: [Biofuel] Cheating bully
Michael Redler wrote: Since you've been tracking Linux activity, I'm sure you know China's commitment to Linux over MS as it's preferred OS. I don't remember the details but, I do know that's a lot of freakin' computers! I'd like to know if you have more info on that. Do a google for Red Flag linux. It's a joint venture between China, Japan, Korea and one or two other Asian countries. Their intention is to get it working properly for the correct display of Asian text and then do a localisation for each country. FYI: I'm trying to resurrect some old computers and found that some Linux distributions can run on most computers going all the way back to Windows 3.1. On the other hand, I've been told that Windows XP is designed to begin having performance problems after a certain period of time. To put it bluntly, WHAT CRAP!! There is a big difference between someone sitting down with a blank piece of paper and designing a system to slow down over time and the just generally bad design of the whole Windoze ecosystem. For example on my home computer, I save NO user data to my c:\ drive, it all goes on the D:\ drive - it makes it easier to back up this way. Now for some reason I still have the C:\Documents and Settings directory, where I've never saved anything, at over 200MB. There are also services running that I have no idea as to what they do, and I write engineering software professionally for a living This is the problem with Windoze. It does things that you don't want it to do, it does things behind you back, it keeps stuff you don't want to keep and so on. Herein lies syour problem. Over time the system just gets laddled with so much gumpf that it slows down. Bad, not intentional, design causes the slowdown. Some even encourage reinstalling your XP OS if you plan on having it for a few years. [snip] This is good advice. Probably after a year do a total reinstall and things will speed up again, but will then slow down over time. Also remember to do things like defragment your hard disk, flush out the registry with a registry cleaner app ever now and then and of course, make sure you are running anti-virus software. Andrew ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
Hi Chris back in the day, travel was not an easy affair (relatively speaking), given the lack of roads, lodging and transport (other than on foot), etc., not to mention the income with which to fund such travels. nevertheless, there wasn't anything to really stop one if one had a mind to. Before the Black Death serfs were bound to their lords, not allowed to leave, move house or marry with his permission. Serfdom was just another name for slavery. Chris. Only before the Black Death? I once saw an interview with Warren Mitchell, who in real life is far different from the bigoted cockney right-winger Alf Garnett in Till Death Do Us Part. He was talking about the phenomenon of the working-class Tory that Alf Garnett represents. He said, still amazed by it: I once met a man who proudly told me that his grandfather had walked 20 miles to borrow a pair of boots so he could vote Tory! LOL! On the other hand, there's this: Why do families with the shakiest grip on the American dream support the Bush equivalent of taking bread from the poor and giving it to the rich? http://www.alternet.org/story/22294/ That article uses a millionaire's chauffeur as an example. I'm sure it's coincidental, but Edward Bernays, the father of PR, also used a chauffeur as an example. ... 'Amid a general complaint about the cost of taxicabs, and after counselling me to save my money and hop a trolley, Edward Bernays indicated that he, himself, had never learned how to drive an automobile. I expressed surprise. He explained that he had simply never had to learn to drive; among his family's train of up to thirteen servants, there was always a chauffeur. Bernays then proceeded to tell me the story of one chauffeur in particular, a man he called Dumb Jack. 'Each day, he related to me, Dumb Jack would awaken at 5 o'clock in the morning, and prepare to drive Bernays and his wife (and partner in public relations), Doris Fleishman, to the office. The trusty chauffeur would then return to the family home to carry their two daughters to school. From there, he would return to the office in order to chauffeur Bernays and his wife to business meetings throughout the day, taking time out to retrieve the daughters from their school. At the end of the day, according to Bernays, a subdued Dumb Jack would step into the kitchen and, as the cook prepared the evening meal, he would sit at a kitchen table, lay his head in his hands, and take a nap. He would go to bed at nine, only to begin his routine again the next morning at five. Comparing this situation favorably to the cost of one cab ride to the airport today, Bernays ended his story by saying that for all of this work, Dumb Jack received a salary of twenty-five dollars per week, and got a half a thursday off every two weeks. 'Not a bad deal, Bernays confided, characterizing the benefits that his family had derived from Dumb Jack's years of compliant service. Then, with a lilt of nostalgia in his voice, he concluded his story: But that's before people got a social conscience. 'At that moment, in that nostalgic reverie over a bygone era, my quest for historical explanation-or at least a piece of it-was satisfied. In an incidental reference to social conscience, Bernays had illuminated an historic shift in the social history of property, shedding inadvertent light on the conditions which gave birth to the birth of the practice of public relations. As the twentieth century progressed, people were no longer willing to accomodate themselves to outmoded standards of deference which history, for millenia, had demanded of them. 'Bernays was the child of a bourgeois world that was, in many ways, still captivated by aristocratic styles of wealth, where relations between the classes were marked, to a large extent, by deep-seated patterns of allegiance-of obedience and obligation-between masters and servants. Like Mr. Stevens (the Anthony Hopkins character) in Remains of the Day, Dumb Jack was also a child of these circumstances. The social conscience, to which Bernays had referred, arrived at that moment when aristocratic paradigms of deference could no longer hold up in the face of modern, democratic, public ideals that were boiling up among the lower strata of society. At that juncture, strategies of social rule began to change, and the life and career of Edward Bernays, I should add, serves as a testament to that change. 'The explosive ideals of democracy challenged ancient customs that had long upheld social inequality. A public claiming the birthright of democratic citizenship and social justice increasingly called upon institutions and people of power to justify themselves and their privileges. In the crucible of these changes, aristocracy began to give way to technocracy as a strategy of rule. Bernays came to maturity in a society where the exigencies of power were-by necessity-increasingly exercised from behind the
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel
Hello Jonathan, Lyn Lyn Gerry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I went to the site that Keith recommended and it looks fantastic. What this maker Elsbett sells is a one tank system you can put anything from WVO to Dino into. If such a system exists, why are people bothing to make biodiesel? It would be easier, more ecological, economical etc to just use vegetable oil. I think about this problem both in the ecolological sense and the Peak oil sense. Particularly with the latter, the fewer things you have to buy, the less exposure you have to being gouged by corporations exploiting scarcity. Anyone with access to a few acres of land and a home made oil press can create fuel out of a variety of easy to grow crops. Am I missing something? Lyn Elsbett. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/fuel snip Lyn, IMO, people will still process biodiesel for pure enjoyment among other reasons. Many times it is not just about saving money, but the personal satisfaction of seeing your own homemade quality fuel put to use. Quality biodiesel can also be used in other applications as well, not just for diesel cars. People are heating their homes with it too. There are many more applications that it can be used for where a system such as the one Elsbett produces would not be applicable. Just my thoughts. I agree with you. We tend to think biodiesel is a transitional step between today's fossil-fuel addictions and the true multifuel vehicles of tomorrow, with motors such as the advanced three-cylinder Elsbett direct-injection car diesel engine developed in the early 1980s, updated (though the Elsbett was the forefather of all modern DI car diesels in production today). That's the reason we try to push veg-oil use, with whatever system, or even with no system, including mixes, in order to achieve a critical mass of users that's big enough to put pressure on the manufacturers: ... in establishing what works and what doesn't work, some are likely to be left with the remains of what didn't work. They'll be heroes in the cause of real straight vegetable oil diesel motors, that anyone can use, not just enthusiasts -- manufacturer-made, supplied and warranted diesels that can run on petro-diesel, biodiesel or straight vegetable oil, in any blend, without any fuel-switching or fuss: fill 'er up, switch on and go, stop and switch off, like any other car. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html The TDI-SVO controversy However, tomorrow is likely to be a few years down the road at least. And even after that, there'll still be a very large stock of ordinary diesel motors on the road all over the world, diesels last a long time. Biodiesel will continue to be a good answer for them, especially because of the local-level or independent sort of production Lyn envisages rather than via big, centralised industrial operations. As you say, it's great making your own fuel! Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] america who found it?
1421 china ? sailed around the world? http://www.1421.tv/ ___ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cheating bully
Thanks Andrew, I guess the statement about designed obsolescence gives MS way too much credit. MikeAndrew Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: Since you've been tracking Linux activity, I'm sure you know China's commitment to Linux over MS as it's preferred OS. I don't remember the details but, I do know that's a lot of freakin' computers! I'd like to know if you have more info on that.Do a google for "Red Flag linux". It's a joint venture between China, Japan, Korea and one or two other Asian countries. Their intention is to get it working properly for the correct display of Asian text and then do a localisation for each country. FYI: I'm trying to resurrect some old computers and found that some Linux distributions can run on most computers going all the way back to Windows 3.1. On the other hand, I've been told that Windows XP is designed to begin having performance problems after a certain period of time. To put it bluntly, WHAT CRAP!! There is a big difference between someone sitting down with a blank piece of paper and designing a system to "slow down over time" and the just generally bad design of the whole Windoze ecosystem. For example on my home computer, I save NO user data to my c:\ drive, it all goes on the D:\ drive - it makes it easier to back up this way. Now for some reason I still have the "C:\Documents and Settings" directory, where I've never saved anything, at over 200MB. There are also services running that I have no idea as to what they do, and I write engineering software professionally for a living This is the problem with Windoze. It does things that you don't want it to do, it does things behind you back, it keeps stuff you don't want to keep and so on. Herein lies syour problem. Over time the system just gets laddled with so much gumpf that it slows down. Bad, not intentional, design causes the slowdown.Some even encourage reinstalling your XP OS if you plan on having it for a few years.[snip]This is good advice. Probably after a year do a total reinstall and things will speed up again, but will then slow down over time. Also remember to do things like defragment your hard disk, flush out the registry with a registry cleaner app ever now and then and of course, make sure you are running anti-virus software.Andrew___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Magnesol
Chris Sommerfeld wrote: I manage a small biodiesel lab at a school here in the Bahamas. We currently make about 250 gal a week. Within the next month we plan to expand to make about 450 gal a week. We are always looking for new ways to improve our processing. Currently we use bubble washing in the wash/dry stage. Water is very presious for us and I am intersted in using Magnesol instead of water to purify our fuel. [snip] Just out of interest, why don't you build a small solar desalination system - besides the financial reasons, I thought the reason people when to the Bahama's was for sunshine!!! I'm sure Keith probably has squirreled away on JtoF plans for a low tech solar desalination system that would provide you with the water you need. Um, no, I don't. Sorry. Keith If JtoF has nothing, get back to me, I know of a simple setup that could probably be made for a couple of hundred dollars. Regards, Andrew Lowe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] solar energy stored efficiently
Solar energy stored efficiently http://www.physorg.com/news4749.html The black stuff has world order over a barrel http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1515240,00.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Alternate Energy Resource Network http://www.alternate-energy.net 1000+ news sources - resources updated daily ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel
Greetz to all on the list; I have joined recently but have not posted till now. This thread just touched on a topic which has been on my mind. The question of multifuels and which is the best etc. There seems to be an underlying assumption that I keep coming up against as I interact with local people and tell them about my biodiesel efforts and the whole green oil vs black oil issue. Everyone including some on this list it seems, (don't be offended if you are not one of them)(but if you are one feel free to 1. be offended, 2. go do some soul searching) talks as if they just assume that this is a case of Oh I can put this in my tank instead of that and continue on as ever To me this is an example of our collective infantile world view that we can consume energy like pigs at the trough. I wonder how many people, and not just the ones who are so wired into 'the matrix' that they just don't even see the important issues, but even amongst the so called environmentally conscious types that can be found here and there, how many believe that it is a case of just finding an alternative energy source so we can continue on the way we have been? Does anyone believe that 80 to 100 billion extra barrels of vegetable oil can be produced every day to replace the petroleum industry? Whether future multifuel vehicles will run on vegetable oil or ethanol or liquified genius to me is a moot point. The truth is energy always has a price. I am reminded that the first R of the famous three R's is REDUCE. Using french fry oil again as fuel is only an example of recycling which is the third and least valuable of the three! There is certainly not enough WVO to go around if everyone were to jump on the bandwagon anyways. We are fortunate to be the early ones who are getting a kind of free ride, only because the masses are still passing the oil dumpster by on thier way to the petroleum store to give money to people who are content to poison them for thier support. I think there should be a lot more effort in the PR department challenging people to think differently. To live close to thier work. To walk and ride thier bicycles. This will improve the health and reduce the heathcare burden anyways. Buy stuff that is locally produced and think carefully about what you support and how you vote with your dollars. It is inevitable that we restructure society when the truth about the unsustainability of our lifestyle is in our faces and can no longer be denied in our daily routines. Those who have already begun to restructure thier own lives will be ahead of the game when the time comes but why wait? Start todaypick up the phone and call...a golden future awaits.. Just my two cents. Joe Keith Addison wrote: Hello Jonathan, Lyn Lyn Gerry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I went to the site that Keith recommended and it looks fantastic. What this maker Elsbett sells is a one tank system you can put anything from WVO to Dino into. If such a system exists, why are people bothing to make biodiesel? It would be easier, more ecological, economical etc to just use vegetable oil. I think about this problem both in the ecolological sense and the Peak oil sense. Particularly with the latter, the fewer things you have to buy, the less exposure you have to being gouged by corporations exploiting scarcity. Anyone with access to a few acres of land and a home made oil press can create fuel out of a variety of easy to grow crops. Am I missing something? Lyn Elsbett. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/fuel snip Lyn, IMO, people will still process biodiesel for pure enjoyment among other reasons. Many times it is not just about saving money, but the personal satisfaction of seeing your own homemade quality fuel put to use. Quality biodiesel can also be used in other applications as well, not just for diesel cars. People are heating their homes with it too. There are many more applications that it can be used for where a system such as the one Elsbett produces would not be applicable. Just my thoughts. I agree with you. We tend to think biodiesel is a transitional step between today's fossil-fuel addictions and the true multifuel vehicles of tomorrow, with motors such as the advanced three-cylinder Elsbett direct-injection car diesel engine developed in the early 1980s, updated (though the Elsbett was the forefather of all modern DI car diesels in production today). That's the reason we try to push veg-oil use, with whatever system, or even with no system, including mixes, in order to achieve a critical mass of users that's big enough to put pressure on the manufacturers: ... in establishing what works and what doesn't work, some are likely to be left with the remains of what didn't work. They'll be heroes in the cause of real straight vegetable oil diesel motors, that anyone
[Biofuel] Biofuel as a rural community development project in Mozambique
I am toying with the idea of trying to set up a pilot rural community development project involving biofuel (bioethanol or biodiesel or SVO, whichever is most appropriate) in Mozambique. I am hoping that you can give me your opinion and advice on the technical feasibility, commercial viability and ultimately, long-term sustainability, in a poor isolated African rural setting, of small-scale, community-based, locally-run biofuel production. If anyone has had experience of a similar project, I would be extremely interested to have information about that. Am I right in thinking that the technical feasibility is beyond question? Bear in mind that we are talking about very isolated and poor communities where everything has to be low-tech and low-maintenance. On the basis of this criterion, biodiesel appears to be the most appropriate fuel as it can be used in diesel vehicles/machines/generators (even very old and rickety ones?) with no engine modifications. We can discount the issue of having to change filters initially because of accumulated petrodiesel deposits falling off (we could include the cost of new filters in start-up subsidies). We also don't need to worry about problems with cold starts, since Mozambique is a tropical country. I am more concerned about the question of commercial viability. The project will only be replicable on a larger scale and sustainable in the long term if, after initial start-up costs, every link in the value chain has an incentive to participate and it is profitable for all concerned (i.e. the anticipated gains should outweigh the expected costs, including the opportunity cost of doing something else). a) Inputs: Local farmers will have an incentive to supply the biofuel production facility with feedstock only if prices paid and quantities required by the production facility are stable and remunerative compared to undertaking other activities, such as growing other crops for other purposes. b) Production: Local entrepreneurs will have an incentive to make investments in biofuel production facilities and operate and maintain those facilities only if they can sell their fuel at a remunerative price, i.e. if they can compete against fossil fuels (whether locally, nationally, regionally or globally, depending on the scale of production). c) Demand: We know that the world market for biofuels is growing rapidly and that the policy environment is becoming extremely favourable. However, supposing, as is most likely to be the case, that local biofuel is most competitive on the local market (and least competitive on the global market, where it has to compete with industrial-scale production), there must be a critical mass of buyers on that market, i.e. local communities must have the desire / ability to invest in machines, vehicles or generators, and the ability to pay for biofuel on a regular basis to run those machines. I guess the root question is the following: is the current situation in rural southern Africa no biofuel production a market failure that could be resolved by kickstarting a virtuous cycle in the sector with start-up outreach and support activities and subsidies, or is it simply not an economically viable sector except with permanent subsidy and support? It seems to me that, to answer this question, there are three crucial cost assessments which need to be made: a) Start-up costs: the required investments by farmers, by local biofuel entrepreneurs, by future biofuel consumers, and to what extent can/should outreach and support activities subsidize these fixed costs? b) Price and availability of feedstock: How will local feedstock production compare to growing other crops or not growing crops at all? Might it potentially actually be cheaper to import the feedstock from elsewhere (which would defeat much of the local development aspect of the project)? P.S. A lot of sugarcane is grown in Mozambique and the country has big potential to become a major low-cost producer of sugar (and therefore ethanol?) (although again, we are more likely talking about large estates than small-holders). c) Value of market demand for biofuel: How cheaply will local biofuel producers be able to sell their production, and how large will be their market? To what extent can they compete with fossil fuels, and imported industrial-scale biofuel producers on the local/national/regional/global market? Do you agree with this general approach? Do you think the idea is viable? Have you undertaken this kind of cost assessment, or do you know of someone who has? Do you have ballpark figures for the various costs involved? In short, should I keep working on this idea and try to turn into reality or are the chances of success too low to merit serious attention? Many thanks for your help. Alexis Alexis Rawlinson Economista, UTCOM-DRI Ministério da Indústria e Comércio Endereço postal: C.P. 400, Maputo, Moçambique Tel: +258 82 8059650
[Biofuel] Reprocessing question
Hi Keith and all, I made a 200 gallon batch of biodiesel last Friday. I used 200 gallons of wvo, 40 gallons of methanol, and 16.5 lbs of 90.5% anhydrous KOH from a titration of 4.5 g/L. After draining off the glycerine I took a 400 ml sample and performed a shake test.I got an emulsion. I added a couple of grains of calcium chloride and a thimble of vinegar and got perfect separation in about 10 minutes. As you know, I have addressed the question of soft water in the wash and while the addition of calcium chloride and vinegar have yet to produce a poor result, I am troubled by this initial emulsion formation using plain water. Today I took 1 litre od the biodiesel and reprocessed it. I used 200 ml of methanol and 5.4 grams of 90.5% KOH, preheated the oil to 120 F and blended for 20 minutes. After 1 hour there was no detectable settling of anything. The biodiesel remains in one phase that is slightly darker than the original biodiesel and somewhat cloudy. Does anyone think that I have a concern here or am I just being paranoid? Thanks for any comments, Bill Clark ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel
Hello Joe Greetz to all on the list; I have joined recently but have not posted till now. This thread just touched on a topic which has been on my mind. The question of multifuels and which is the best etc. There seems to be an underlying assumption that I keep coming up against as I interact with local people and tell them about my biodiesel efforts and the whole green oil vs black oil issue. Everyone including some on this list it seems, (don't be offended if you are not one of them)(but if you are one feel free to 1. be offended, 2. go do some soul searching) talks as if they just assume that this is a case of Oh I can put this in my tank instead of that and continue on as ever To me this is an example of our collective infantile world view that we can consume energy like pigs at the trough. I wonder how many people, and not just the ones who are so wired into 'the matrix' that they just don't even see the important issues, but even amongst the so called environmentally conscious types that can be found here and there, how many believe that it is a case of just finding an alternative energy source so we can continue on the way we have been? Does anyone believe that 80 to 100 billion extra barrels of vegetable oil can be produced every day to replace the petroleum industry? Whether future multifuel vehicles will run on vegetable oil or ethanol or liquified genius to me is a moot point. The truth is energy always has a price. I am reminded that the first R of the famous three R's is REDUCE. Using french fry oil again as fuel is only an example of recycling which is the third and least valuable of the three! There is certainly not enough WVO to go around if everyone were to jump on the bandwagon anyways. We are fortunate to be the early ones who are getting a kind of free ride, only because the masses are still passing the oil dumpster by on thier way to the petroleum store to give money to people who are content to poison them for thier support. I think there should be a lot more effort in the PR department challenging people to think differently. To live close to thier work. To walk and ride thier bicycles. This will improve the health and reduce the heathcare burden anyways. Buy stuff that is locally produced and think carefully about what you support and how you vote with your dollars. It is inevitable that we restructure society when the truth about the unsustainability of our lifestyle is in our faces and can no longer be denied in our daily routines. Those who have already begun to restructure thier own lives will be ahead of the game when the time comes but why wait? Start todaypick up the phone and call...a golden future awaits.. Just my two cents. A good two cents' worth. However, you'd probably have been a lot more cheery about had you spent some time in the list archives. That's pretty much the message the list has been pushing for the last five years. It's almost a mantra by now: Merely replacing fossil fuels is not the answer. A rational and sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use (currently mostly waste), great improvements in energy use efficiency, and, most important, decentralisation of supply to the small-scale or farm-scale local-economy level, along with the use of all ready-to-use renewable energy technologies in combination as the local circumstances require. More than that, there's a great deal of attention paid to how the feedstock is produced. If you just swap fuels instead of changing the entire disaster you'll end up with wall-to-wall industrialized monocrops of GMO soy and canola. Big Biofuels may not turn out to be much better than Big Oil. Silly thing about it is that industrialized monocropping of biofuels crops would be (is) just as fossil-fuel-dependent as industrialized monocropping of anything else is. What's the use of finding a cure for cancer if it gives you a heart attack? So there's a focus here on sustainable crop production. You might find these previous posts interesting reading: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg18745.html Re: Biofuels hold key to future of British farming http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg48264.html How much fuel can we grow? I think there should be a lot more effort in the PR department challenging people to think differently. Um, PR is the enemy - there's a great deal about that in the archives too, and how to counter it. But your concerns are well-addressed - indeed, walk, ride your bike, Is your journey really necessary? Catch a train, not a jet. And so on. The list deals with the entire subject of biofuels, not just how to make it, put it in and go without a care in the world thinking How green am I! Maybe you will be, and maybe not. Locally produced? The whole drift of the list is for local production and local economies - the sheer madness of the food miles
Re: [Biofuel] Magnesol
Chris, Have you thought about using salt water for your biodiesel washing? The salt should help the biodiesel separate. kk Chris Sommerfeld wrote: I manage a small biodiesel lab at a school here in the Bahamas. We currently make about 250 gal a week. Within the next month we plan to expand to make about 450 gal a week. We are always looking for new ways to improve our processing. Currently we use bubble washing in the wash/dry stage. Water is very presious for us and I am intersted in using Magnesol instead of water to purify our fuel. I have run a number of samples of our fuel with magnesol and have been pleased with the results. In those experiments I filtered the Magnesol/Biodiesel mix with a 1 micron sock filter. I am trying to spec a filtration bank that would filter the Mangesol/Biodiesel mix for our 150 gal batches. The Dallas Group (manufacturer of Magnesol) recomends using a frame and plate style filter. I have gotten quotes on frame and plate filters that are over $10,000. We can't spend that kind of money. Does anyone know of a cheaper source of frame and plate filters or an alternative to using frame and plate filters when purifying with magnesol? ___ -- Email Sig Kenneth Kron President Bay Area Biofuel http://www.bayareabiofuel.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 415-867-8067 What you can do, or dream you can do, begin it! Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Magnesol
Hello Kenneth Chris, Have you thought about using salt water for your biodiesel washing? You mean seawater? There's a lot more than salt in it, it contains just about everything. I don't know, but perhaps you'd be washing more in than you wash out. Might be worth a try though, with a one-litre test batch. But I think you'd at least have to end up with a final wash of fresh water. The salt should help the biodiesel separate. It shouldn't need any help to separate. Salt will break an emulsion, but it's an emergency measure, to be used when poor completion has produced a batch that should probably be re-treated rather than washed. In any case salt is a contaminant that should be removed by washing, not added - adding salt means there's more of it to be removed, and usually it takes more washes. Best wishes Keith kk Chris Sommerfeld wrote: I manage a small biodiesel lab at a school here in the Bahamas. We currently make about 250 gal a week. Within the next month we plan to expand to make about 450 gal a week. We are always looking for new ways to improve our processing. Currently we use bubble washing in the wash/dry stage. Water is very presious for us and I am intersted in using Magnesol instead of water to purify our fuel. I have run a number of samples of our fuel with magnesol and have been pleased with the results. In those experiments I filtered the Magnesol/Biodiesel mix with a 1 micron sock filter. I am trying to spec a filtration bank that would filter the Mangesol/Biodiesel mix for our 150 gal batches. The Dallas Group (manufacturer of Magnesol) recomends using a frame and plate style filter. I have gotten quotes on frame and plate filters that are over $10,000. We can't spend that kind of money. Does anyone know of a cheaper source of frame and plate filters or an alternative to using frame and plate filters when purifying with magnesol? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] vikings, turks and romans
hi, hakan. there is absolutely no question that the vikings traded with byzantium.there was one viking groupwhichalso tried to conquer it. having failed at this, theyopted to formally establish friendly trade and diplomaticrelations,arranging dynastic marriages (whichserved as the foundation for the later russian empire's presumption to carrying on the legacy of theceasars).others saw fit to serve the byzantine emperor: the varingian guard to which bob and i have both referred previously. their trading (and conquering) activities were even more far flung than byzantium, though. and it is generally accepted that for several hundred years they were essentially *the* vessel for the transfer of huge amounts of wealth from asia minor; the middle east; and asia to europe. i did some looking and found a single site which links the viking runic alphabet with the turk script. the author's assertion is that the symbols, at least insofar as their phonetic representation, are identical. he went so far as totranscribe viking runic writings to the turk runes,yielding an effective translation. it must be emphasized that this was a strictly phonetic exercise. he did not use the turk language. -Original Message-From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 03:21:31 +0200Subject: Re: [Biofuel] vikings, turks and romans Chris,Look at my mail to Bob.The Vikings had a regular and well established trading relationshipwith Miklagård, which was Constantinople. This is proven in manyways, by written "sagas" and also by history from that part. Whenthey visited Constantinople, it was special rules for them and theywere not allowed to be a larger group or to have arms, which alsois documented.All the links are there, it is possible and Swedish historians havestarted to accept the links and their probability. They do not regardit as speculative. It is not much more that I can say off or on line,but if you have substantial evidence that the theory is wrong, thewe can continue off line.HakanAt 02:16 AM 6/27/2005, you wrote:hakan,i wasn't disputing everything you suggest.what i do have trouble with, and correct me if i'm misinterpreting you, isthe notion that the vikings could somehow be descended both from the romanlegions and the turks. could there have been contact between the romans andscandinavia? possibly a trade relationship? certainly, but i find thisquestionable because the vikings would have had little if anything to offer that theromans weren't already getting from the peoples of britania, and western andcentral europe. it seems more likely that scandinavian goods would have foundtheir way to the romans indirectly, via trade with the germanic peoples of centraleurope.but even if we suppose that there was direct trade contact, i highly doubt itcould have had sufficient regularity or depth to be of significantcultural/technological/political impact, with the possible exception of their longboats. but even this i've never heard suggested, and it seems about as likely thatthis influence could have come from phoenician traders. that is, if theviking longboat wasn't an entirely autoctonous technology.there may be more to the turkish/turkic relationship, because the historygets a little more complex. but it seems highly speculative in the least if notutterly baseless and fanciful, to suggest that the connections are anythingbut extremely remote in some cases, and superficial in others.anyway, except for the fact that (as was pointed out earlier in this thread)everything is connected to everything, we seem to have gone pretty far afield.perhaps you'd like to continue this discussion off-list?-chris b.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Acid Heterogeneous Catalyst and FFA esterification
Dear Mr. Addison: Lets suppose that an oil/fat with a high content of Free Fatty Acids ( 15%) is available, is it true that FFA present in it can be esterifyed using an acid (H2SO4) as catalyst in conjunction with the chosen alcohol, plus heat, stirring, etc...? Assuming that esterification of FFA is achieved... Under such treatment I wonder what may happen to the oil/fat that is also present, could you please elaborate on it?. Thanks in advance, Francisco ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] vikings, turks and romans
Chris, You found two sites, that link the Vikings to the Middle East, if you followed my link to the Swedish Old Nordic Research Institution's paper, even if you do not read Swedish. The Viking and Turkish runic writing used the nabateic language from the area of Southern Israel - Jordanien etc. I lost the link to the site you found and it would be nice if you can give it to me. In the Viking tales, Miklagård (Constantinople) is referred to as the the big city and as a sort of home city or origin. The Vikings also had a quite unique way getting there, by the Russian rivers, which is a bit illogical, if their origin was European. The Viking findings and tales, goes back to around 200 AD and their conquering and trading period westwards was between 800 to 1100 AD. The only serious and failed attempt to conquer Constantinople by the Swedes, that I can remember from the Swedish history, was by a Swedish King and around 600 years after the Vikings era ended. Maybe you can refresh my memory on that point. It is interesting and a lot of the Swedish Viking history has been rewritten and reevaluated, since I first learned it in school more than 50 years ago. If I think about what I read and learned then, it corresponds very much with your and Bob's Viking history. It is funny, because we decided to not go to our summer house in Sweden this year, were we normally spending July, from my childhood and onwards. My wife started to rent luxury villas and apartments for friends during the summer and I made a web site for it http://villaslujo.com/ a year ago. This expanded so much and so fast, that we decided to stay at home this year. Otherwise I have a childhood friend at the summer place, who is professor in Nordic History at Stockholm University, but what I can remember I have never really discussed detailed history with him. He could have straighten me out on this matters, if I am too wrong. Hakan At 02:30 AM 6/28/2005, you wrote: hi, hakan. there is absolutely no question that the vikings traded with byzantium. there was one viking group which also tried to conquer it. having failed at this, they opted to formally establish friendly trade and diplomatic relations, arranging dynastic marriages (which served as the foundation for the later russian empire's presumption to carrying on the legacy of the ceasars). others saw fit to serve the byzantine emperor: the varingian guard to which bob and i have both referred previously. their trading (and conquering) activities were even more far flung than byzantium, though. and it is generally accepted that for several hundred years they were essentially *the* vessel for the transfer of huge amounts of wealth from asia minor; the middle east; and asia to europe. i did some looking and found a single site which links the viking runic alphabet with the turk script. the author's assertion is that the symbols, at least insofar as their phonetic representation, are identical. he went so far as to transcribe viking runic writings to the turk runes, yielding an effective translation. it must be emphasized that this was a strictly phonetic exercise. he did not use the turk language. -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 03:21:31 +0200 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] vikings, turks and romans Chris, Look at my mail to Bob. The Vikings had a regular and well established trading relationship with Miklagård, which was Constantinople. This is proven in many ways, by written sagas and also by history from that part. When they visited Constantinople, it was special rules for them and they were not allowed to be a larger group or to have arms, which also is documented. All the links are there, it is possible and Swedish historians have started to accept the links and their probability. They do not regard it as speculative. It is not much more that I can say off or on line, but if you have substantial evidence that the theory is wrong, the we can continue off line. Hakan At 02:16 AM 6/27/2005, you wrote: hakan, i wasn't disputing everything you suggest. what i do have trouble with, and correct me if i'm misinterpreting you, is the notion that the vikings could somehow be descended both from the roman legions and the turks. could there have been contact between the romans and scandinavia? possibly a trade relationship? certainly, but i find this questionable because the vikings would have had little if anything to offer that the romans weren't already getting from the peoples of britania, and western and central europe. it seems more likely that scandinavian goods would have found their way to the romans indirectly, via trade with the germanic peoples of central europe. but even if we suppose that there was direct trade contact, i highly doubt it could have had sufficient regularity or depth to be of significant
[Biofuel] Hybrid Diesel
I'm interested in organizing a coalition around hybrid electric/biodiesel vehicles. I read that such products were manufactured early in the hybrid process, but later scrapped. My thinking is that excluding Dino Fuel entirely is the way to go, without the difficutly of producing hydrogen fuel cells as well. 1: What exists already in this area? 2: Is anyone in the United States interested in collaborating on this project? Ted De Barbieri ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel
Ok Keith; Thanks for the welcome. Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes, as it wasn't my intent but around here (Ontario, Canada) it seems just about everybody has the mentality I described. They just don't seem to get it that the future is gonna look a little different. BTW I'm glad to be on this list. Making biodiesel is quite new to me and I'm sure I can benefit from all the experience gathered here. Joe Keith Addison wrote: Hello Joe Greetz to all on the list; I have joined recently but have not posted till now. This thread just touched on a topic which has been on my mind. The question of multifuels and which is the best etc. There seems to be an underlying assumption that I keep coming up against as I interact with local people and tell them about my biodiesel efforts and the whole green oil vs black oil issue. Everyone including some on this list it seems, (don't be offended if you are not one of them)(but if you are one feel free to 1. be offended, 2. go do some soul searching) talks as if they just assume that this is a case of Oh I can put this in my tank instead of that and continue on as ever To me this is an example of our collective infantile world view that we can consume energy like pigs at the trough. I wonder how many people, and not just the ones who are so wired into 'the matrix' that they just don't even see the important issues, but even amongst the so called environmentally conscious types that can be found here and there, how many believe that it is a case of just finding an alternative energy source so we can continue on the way we have been? Does anyone believe that 80 to 100 billion extra barrels of vegetable oil can be produced every day to replace the petroleum industry? Whether future multifuel vehicles will run on vegetable oil or ethanol or liquified genius to me is a moot point. The truth is energy always has a price. I am reminded that the first R of the famous three R's is REDUCE. Using french fry oil again as fuel is only an example of recycling which is the third and least valuable of the three! There is certainly not enough WVO to go around if everyone were to jump on the bandwagon anyways. We are fortunate to be the early ones who are getting a kind of free ride, only because the masses are still passing the oil dumpster by on thier way to the petroleum store to give money to people who are content to poison them for thier support. I think there should be a lot more effort in the PR department challenging people to think differently. To live close to thier work. To walk and ride thier bicycles. This will improve the health and reduce the heathcare burden anyways. Buy stuff that is locally produced and think carefully about what you support and how you vote with your dollars. It is inevitable that we restructure society when the truth about the unsustainability of our lifestyle is in our faces and can no longer be denied in our daily routines. Those who have already begun to restructure thier own lives will be ahead of the game when the time comes but why wait? Start todaypick up the phone and call...a golden future awaits.. Just my two cents. A good two cents' worth. However, you'd probably have been a lot more cheery about had you spent some time in the list archives. That's pretty much the message the list has been pushing for the last five years. It's almost a mantra by now: Merely replacing fossil fuels is not the answer. A rational and sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use (currently mostly waste), great improvements in energy use efficiency, and, most important, decentralisation of supply to the small-scale or farm-scale local-economy level, along with the use of all ready-to-use renewable energy technologies in combination as the local circumstances require. More than that, there's a great deal of attention paid to how the feedstock is produced. If you just swap fuels instead of changing the entire disaster you'll end up with wall-to-wall industrialized monocrops of GMO soy and canola. Big Biofuels may not turn out to be much better than Big Oil. Silly thing about it is that industrialized monocropping of biofuels crops would be (is) just as fossil-fuel-dependent as industrialized monocropping of anything else is. What's the use of finding a cure for cancer if it gives you a heart attack? So there's a focus here on sustainable crop production. You might find these previous posts interesting reading: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg18745.html Re: Biofuels hold key to future of British farming http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg48264.html How much fuel can we grow? I think there should be a lot more effort in the PR department challenging people to think differently. Um, PR is the enemy - there's a great deal about that in the archives too, and how to counter it. But your
