date:20050919

I seriously doubt it, the Khaos device  does much of anything and I have 
yet to see any well controlled studies that show that adding small 
amounts of acetone impacts fuel efficiency.


NBV wrote:
 The reference below claims to save 15%-50% gasoline fuel when installed;
 the principle is the correct mixture of air-fuel ratio. Since many car
 owners have already verified to save gas fuel, I wonder if the addition of
 acetone will further save gasoline fuel...
 
 --
 Khaos Super Turbo Charger
 Corporate Office: Rm. 402 Parchouse II Bldg., EDSA (beside Sogo Hotel)
 Guadalupe Nuevo, Makati City, Metro Manila, Philippines
 Tel. # (632) 882-1689 (Pholyn) / Cell # (63) 921-4351986 (Ave)
 
 http://www.bestofpinoys.manila.ph/khaos-turbo-charger/
 
 -- To
 visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pes_acetone/
 
 
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Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman

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[Biofuel] Ontario alternate power: Bullfrog

2005-09-19 Thread mark manchester

Has anyone else seen this?  I don't know about the reliability of the info.
Jesse

http://truthforce.ca/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4346090942/m/8781025931/r/347109
8931


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[Biofuel] New Yahoo! Group - alcohol fuel


FYI: I came across an ethanol fuel group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alcoholfuel/

It's pretty new (Sept 4). Despite that, they seem to have a lot of activity.

Although JTF is still the most comprehensive source for alternative fuel production (IMO), I've never met someone from whom I couldn't learn.

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[Biofuel] Grass growing one month longer


I was doing a search on something unrelated and found this article in The Free Republic (of all places)!

They tried to make an example out of this and use it to make fun of those who recognize global warming. So, it only seems fair to post the original article (from thesource listed in the FR web site) and sayTHANKS for not only publishing viable data supportingglobal warming, but broadcasting the ignorance and arrogance which drives the far right.

Mike
PS: I just noticed something. GW and G-Dubya (I'm easily amused sometimes)

Grass growing one month longer:- LONDON | September 06, 2005 3:15:30 PM IST

A British man who kept a detailed diary on his lawn mowing for the past 20 years, has had his information included in a study on global warming. Seventy-seven-year-old David Grisenthwaite's painstaking records on his lawn cutting were included as part of a study on global warming by the Royal Meteorological Society, the Daily Telegraph reported Saturday.
Grass is growing for one month longer than it did 20 years ago, due to climate changes, according to the study.
I didn't see it as being anything significant, but the data was passed on to the Royal Meteorological Society and they graphed it all up in their journal and found that it showed that global warming was making the grass grow for a month longer than it was back then, said Grisenthwaite.
I'm a creature of habit. I also note down every time I shred garden waste and am a great enthusiast of bus timetables.
(UPI)
http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=113710cat=Asia___
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Re: [Biofuel] turbo diesels

2005-09-19 Thread Purbo J. Wignjosajono




I have been using biodiesel 
on my intercooled turbo diesel for about 7.000 miles and ,, thank Gog, have not 
found any problem with it.

PJW

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Darryl West 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 1:31 
  PM
  Subject: [Biofuel] turbo diesels
  
  
  Hi I am a newbie to the biodiesel world and am keen to start creating my own fuel. 
  I have managed to scavenge 
  materials to make a basic processor, but have a simple question before making 
  biodiesel and putting in my 
  car.
  
  Is there any known effect in 
  adding biodiesel to a turbo diesel engine? Knowing the basics about a diesel 
  engine and a turbo I would think not, but would really appreciate any inputs 
  regarding this matter.
  
  Thanks
  
  Darryl 
  West
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar technique could lead to cleaner, cheaper hydrogen

2005-09-19 Thread Richard Littrell





This is truly an excellent way to generate cheap hydrogen on command.
It eliminates the storage difficulty that hydrogen gas presents. The
only problem is generating cheap pure sodium...

Rick

bmolloy wrote:

  Hi All,
   This thread intrigued, so much so that I posted it around among
friends for comment. One said that sodium was the answer to generating cheap
hydrogen. The exchange as follows. Any comment, anyone?
Regards,
Bob.




Sodium pill? What? How? Tell me more.

  
  
Very little to tell. Sixty-four years ago, in school chemistry, I learnt,
but did not see (because our school didn't have a lab) that if you threw a
small piece of sodium metal into a jar of water you got an explosive
reaction in which nascent hydrogen was formed.  Na + H2O = NaOH + H

  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar technique could lead to cleaner, cheaper hydrogen

Hmmm.  Seems very similar to generating hydrogen on demand from water
by electrolyzing it.   Works great, but there is that pesky energy
balance thing...  I suspect the energy to refine sodium is much
greater than what you ever get out of the hydrogen.  Plus, what to do
with the left over sodium hydroxide solution?  That's not friendly
stuff...

On 9/19/05, Richard Littrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  This is truly an excellent way to generate cheap hydrogen on command.  It
 eliminates the storage difficulty that hydrogen gas presents.  The only
 problem is generating cheap pure sodium...
  
  Rick
 
  
  bmolloy wrote:
  
  Hi All,
  This thread intrigued, so much so that I posted it around among
 friends for comment. One said that sodium was the answer to generating cheap
 hydrogen. The exchange as follows. Any comment, anyone?
 Regards,
 Bob.
 
 
 
 
 Sodium pill? What? How? Tell me more.
 
  
  
  Very little to tell. Sixty-four years ago, in school chemistry, I learnt,
 but did not see (because our school didn't have a lab) that if you threw a
 small piece of sodium metal into a jar of water you got an explosive
 reaction in which nascent hydrogen was formed. Na + H2O = NaOH + H
  
  
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar technique could lead to cleaner, cheaper hydrogen

2005-09-19 Thread Richard Littrell





Dear Doug,

No.

Rick

des wrote:

  I recall that chemistry experiment, (also works with potassium), both 
metals were kept under oil to prevent oxidation.  They're very unstable 
metals, and not found on earth in their pure forms.  Hence the question 
becomes:  How much energy does it take to purify the metal, and once 
this is considered, is the production of H2 still cheap?

doug swanson



bmolloy wrote:
  
  
Hi All,
   This thread intrigued, so much so that I posted it around among
friends for comment. One said that sodium was the answer to generating cheap
hydrogen. The exchange as follows. Any comment, anyone?
Regards,
Bob.




Sodium pill? What? How? Tell me more.




  Very little to tell. Sixty-four years ago, in school chemistry, I learnt,
but did not see (because our school didn't have a lab) that if you threw a
small piece of sodium metal into a jar of water you got an explosive
reaction in which nascent hydrogen was formed.  Na + H2O = NaOH + H
  



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Re: [Biofuel] Ontario alternate power: Bullfrog

It says that they have met the Canadian federal government's
Environmental Choice Program EcoLogo standards, which I guess is what
Canada uses instead of the Green-e certification that the US uses?

On 9/19/05, mark manchester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Has anyone else seen this?  I don't know about the reliability of the info.
 Jesse
 
 http://truthforce.ca/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4346090942/m/8781025931/r/347109
 8931
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Air Cleaner (was advancement of car technology for 1)

2005-09-19 Thread Joe Street

Kewl!

Me and my hang gliding buddies have been talking about something like 
this for a while.  We are interested in using the convective force not 
to drive air through filters but rather to trigger larger convective 
currents in the air.  Yes I am talking about a thermal generator.  It 
would be so nice to have a house thermal always reliable and present 
on the location of our airfield.  Jason do you have any data on the 
device?  What kind of air flow rate does it produce?  Is there an 
optimal shape, are there advantages to building it next to special areas 
like a woodlot or a pond from which it can draw cool air, or is it 
better to have it in say an open feild where it can draw air which is 
already somewhat heated by the surrounding soil?  What about materials 
choices for cost vs. performance tradeoffs?

Joe


Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted:

snip
 
  

P.S. for a look at another of my ideas to fight air pollution go here 
http://homepage.urbanet.ch/scaf/pages/flat_tab_medium_indexpag.html

  



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Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point

You know... I hate it when I'm right.   I was right about Iraq, and
more and more it appears I may have been right about global warming
too

IF we have reached the tipping point where catastrophic effects from
global warming are unavoidable, even if we completely stopped CO2
emissions right now, then does it become more or less urgent to cut
emissions?  It seems like at the tipping point, the incremental cost
of emissions becomes much less and global warming actually does become
something that we can't do anything about.  In that case, perhaps a
massive public works project to move cities, redesign our
transportation system, revamp architecture, etc, becomes in order. 
This will require using alot of fossil fuels (because there is no
other current source capable of doing this massive project), but it
could be argued that, if indeed we have reached a tipping point, that
preventing global warming is moot, and we should do whatever we can to
deal with the effects of global warming.  There are other reasons to
cut fossil fuel use besides global warming (societal, global equity,
peak oil, local pollution, etc), but perhaps we've already done the
damage on the global warming front.  Rush Limbaugh actually had a
point on this -- he said that everyone in New Orleans switching to
wind power or driving a prius wouldn't have helped save them once
Katrina entered the gulf.  Of course he then proceeded to use this as
evidence that global warming was a hoax.

Of course,  what I think is more likely is that society as a whole
will continue to deny global warming until the very point it finally
takes them out.  Keep an eye on Rita.  I hear the gulf still has
really high surface temperatures

On 9/18/05, Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 From: Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 07:33:18 +
 
 Hello,
 Why not discuss the story and implications right here.
 This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference.
 
 I am one of those individuals that would like to make a difference.  Were is
 the starting gate?  Lets get started.
 
 Terry Dyck
 Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional fossil
 fuel suppliers
 won't win in the long run if we face them head on.
 We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from our past
 energy gluttony
 and disregard for the earth's natural ecosystems. We got ourselves into
 this mess
 and we are going to have to find sustainable solutions to develop a viable
 future for the planet.
 
 
 regards
 tallex
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 next_generation_grid
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid
 
   news  resources  forums
 
 tomorrow-energy
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy
 
 
 
 Alternative Energy Politics
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/
 
 
 Get your daily alternative energy news
 
 Alternate Energy Resource Network
   http://www.alternate-energy.net
   1000+ news sources - resources
  updated daily
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
---Original Message---
From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
Sent: 17 Sep '05 19:44
  
[0]mad_goldfish writes The UK's Independent is running a front page
story today on a scientific report claiming that [1]global warming is
 now
unstoppable, after measuring changes in the level of ice in the
 arctic.
From the article: The greatest fear is that the Arctic has reached a
'tipping point' beyond which nothing can reverse the continual loss of
sea ice and with it the massive land glaciers of Greenland, which will
raise sea levels dramatically. Satellites monitoring the Arctic have
found that the extent of the sea ice this August has reached its lowest
monthly point on record, dipping an unprecedented 18.2 per cent below
 the
long-term average. Either way, [2]someone wins a bet.
  
Discuss this story at:
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/09/16/1514216
  
Links:
0. mailto:craig...nicol@@@gmail...com
1.
  
 http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article312997.ece
2. http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/20/1845247tid=126
  
  

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[Biofuel] Carnot -- was Can this man save the world? (Hydrogen injection)

2005-09-19 Thread Kirk McLoren

The 35% is 35% of the theoretical Carnot, not 35% of the potential energy of the fuel. And yes, the rest of the energy is in the exhaust pipe and water jacket although it is almost all heat as unburned hydrocarbons is usually not true any more.

This little measurement twist is why most don't realize that a 35% efficient fuel cell and a 35% internal combustion engineare not the same although I've seen some attempts at using Carnot to diddle fuel cell numbers.

As for Carnot calculate the available work using Charles law. Then you will see Carnot is useless for low temperature engines. 

KirkJan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Furthermore,
when the energy efficiency of a combustion engine is 35% it means the relationship between added energy (fuel) and the power that comes as a result. The rest of the energy is heat energy, which becomestransported by the cooling system as well as creating hot exhaust fumes. If you could use that heat for some purpose, you will find that almost 100% of the added energy is accounted for.
Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45

- Original Message - 
From: Rexis Tree 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Can this man save the world? (Hydrogen injection)
"Most internal combustion engines operate at about 35 per cent efficiency. This means that only 35 per cent of the fuel is fully burned. The rest either turns to carbon corroding the engine or goes out the exhaust pipe as greenhouse gases."Wow, according to this in theory if we make a 100% efficient internal combustion engine then we will have a car with zero greenhouse gases emission and zero carbon corroding to the engine!



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Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Morality Question

Are Cheney and Rove with him?  I might actually save GW, but not the others...

On 9/18/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 i'd have to go for the high-contrast color.  you can always digitize it later
 and convert to grey-scale.
 
 -chris b.
 
 
 In a message dated 9/17/05 6:17:17 PM, dougwrites:
 
 We did?  Looks like my vote got ignored yet again.
 
 I'd choose the black and white, color film leaves nothing for the
 imagination...
 
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[Biofuel] Fwd: war now

2005-09-19 Thread Kirk McLoren

Also see http://www.americas.org/item_19275
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/12654463.htmKirk

U.S. WAR PENDING AGAINST VENEZUELA?Sunday, September 18, 2005 - FreeMarketNews.comAmerican warships have assembled off the shores of Venezuela, and a war between the two countries seems to be fast approaching, according to international wire reports. Recently, U.S. soldiers traveled to Curacao, an island off Venezuelas northwest coast, for what U.S. officials claimed was rest and relaxation. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez claims the U.S. is readying a foolhardy enterprise, that would result in a 100-year war. We are prepared.American military forces have also reportedly taken action by moving into Paraguay, the South American country south of Venezuela. It has been reported that 500 U.S. troops arrived in the country in July with planes, weapons and ammunition. Reports also indicate an airbase, which could possibly be used by U.S. forces, exists in Mariscal Estigarribia, Paraguay; however,
officials in the South American country refute the notion that the U.S. military presence is for anything other than humanitarian efforts.According to Toward Freedom Magazine News Service, U.S. government officials have been expressing concern of terrorist threats in the tri-border region (where Paraguay, Brazil and Argentina meet) in order to build their case for military operations, in many ways reminiscent to the build-up before the invasion of Iraq.staffreports - Free-Market News Network--__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___
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Re: [Biofuel] Carnot -- was Can this man save the world? (Hydrogen injection)

H?  How come I took two thermodynamics courses in college, and
never heard this?  Then again, I got an electrical engineering degree
concentrating in power systems, and never heard of the existence of
PV.

On 9/19/05, Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
 As for Carnot calculate the available work using Charles law. Then you will
 see Carnot is useless for low temperature engines. 
   
 


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Re: [Biofuel] Oil shale

2005-09-19 Thread DHAJOGLO

On Wednesday, September 14, 2005 4:40 PM, Ray J wrote:
You must not have read the article

***sigh*** I did read the article. I guess my phrasing just wasn't good enough
so I'll rephrase:

If you drill into the ground and remove a finite amount of matter in a finite
volume, you are left with mass of earth that is less dense than before.
Furthermore, the earth is left full of shaft holes (not one or two holes per
acre, but hundreds of holes per acre). This leaves the ground much more
accessible to water and has the potential to unlock vast quantities of
materials (such as oxides of heavy metals) to leach out of the previously dense
earth and into the water table. Now, imagine a company drilling untold amounts
of holes in, more than a thousand square miles - the largest fossil fuel
deposits in the world and think what sort of environmental impact this will
have.

Even if you don't dig up the shale, the process alone converts standing earth
into mining waste via heat treatment. This amount of heat will kill any living
orginasims and bacteria, and can chemically change the rock composition. Its
been changed from a native geologic formation to a by-product of mining even
though it was never physically removed. This doesn't even begin to address
the impact the surface will take for the operation.

To underscore my familiarity with the situation, I have been on air drilling
operations in eastern Utah and western Colorado. My grandfather and father
worked in the oil drilling industry while I was growing up. Drilling sites are
not clean and they leave an indelible mark on the land through the direct and
indirect effects of drilling. I personally don't think this technology will be
viable. It will be interesting to see how much energy will be expended in
creating ice barriers and how easily it can be accomplished on very non-flat
terrain.

What's not clear is weather they will be freezing just four sides or five sides
(the bottom).

Here are some more articles on the topic:
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002981.html
http://www.wilderness.org/Library/Documents/upload/Testimony-Smith-OilShaleDevelopment-20050412.pdf

they drill a shaft freeze the ground in a big sphere way out
around the shaft.. then boil the oil out of the rock and suck it out of
the hole they are not planning to dig out the shale

DHAJOGLO wrote:

I haven't posted in a while and I just got around to looking at this. I grew
up in Grand Junction, Colorado. This is situated right in the heart of oil
shale country. There is even a local story (local to Parachute, Colorado)
about an early settler that built his fireplace out of oil shale and shortly
thereafter rebuilt his whole house. But I digress.

No matter what any company says about getting to the oil shale, it is very,
very important to understand that, even if this process works they would be
leaving behind vast amounts of mining/drilling waste. Rather than dig up the
rocks, Boil off the oil and then dump the mining waste they simply leave it
in the ground. I can't imagine what untold pollution this would cause but I
would imagine the Green river and in turn the Colorado river would become
extremely polluted. Not to mention the land which, despite their best
efforts, would still contain loose chemicals. *note* the article never
addressed what they would do with the, gunk they stripped out.

Its a dicey proposition that I'm sure will become more and more debated as
the US loses its grip on the world oil supply.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4051709,00.html

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar technique could lead to cleaner, cheaper hydrogen


Actually, whereas potassium will react with moisture in the air, sodium 
won't react so rapidly.  Chuck it water and it will, quite excitingly.

Ken Chua wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 Sodium in air will burn instantly and explosively. 
 Wasn't this the reason Thomas Edison got fired and
 lost part of his hearing because he let dry a piece of
 sodium metal in the box car he was experimenting in. 
 The box car burned to the ground too.  Sodium metal is
 usually placed in oil to keep it from coming in
 contact with air(oxygen) which is very explosive.
 
 Best regards to all
 
 --- bmolloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
Hi All,
   This thread intrigued, so much so that I
posted it around among
friends for comment. One said that sodium was the
answer to generating cheap
hydrogen. The exchange as follows. Any comment,
anyone?
Regards,
Bob.




Sodium pill? What? How? Tell me more.


Very little to tell. Sixty-four years ago, in

school chemistry, I learnt,

but did not see (because our school didn't have a

lab) that if you threw a

small piece of sodium metal into a jar of water

you got an explosive

reaction in which nascent hydrogen was formed.  Na

+ H2O = NaOH + H


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Re: [Biofuel] Solar technique could lead to cleaner, cheaper hydrogen

sure it works but it takes more energy to make the sodium than you get 
back in hydorgen.

bmolloy wrote:
 Hi All,
This thread intrigued, so much so that I posted it around among
 friends for comment. One said that sodium was the answer to generating cheap
 hydrogen. The exchange as follows. Any comment, anyone?
 Regards,
 Bob.
 
 
 
 
 Sodium pill? What? How? Tell me more.
 
 
Very little to tell. Sixty-four years ago, in school chemistry, I learnt,
but did not see (because our school didn't have a lab) that if you threw a
small piece of sodium metal into a jar of water you got an explosive
reaction in which nascent hydrogen was formed.  Na + H2O = NaOH + H
 
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] advancement of car technology for 1

Interesting idea, but I'd have to say I prefer PV myself.  No moving
parts.   Solar got a bad rap in the US in the 80's due to alot of
poorly installed solar thermal systems.  Now everyone expects their PV
system to leak  I can't actually remember doing any maintenance on
my PV system in the last year (it has sealed batteries), except maybe
shoveling the snow off the panels after returning from vacation. 
Solar thermal is the obvious way to go for any heat collection needed
(at least two thirds the loads of a house here in Colorado), because
of higher collection efficiency, but I have yet to find a way to
convert low grade (100 or 200C) heat into electricity that withstands
the tests of the real world.


 
  Here's an idea I had, I think it's new. If a house is using solar power,(not
  panels, but solar water heating panels) to heat its hot water, then a
  stirling motor could be placed on or incorporated into the top of the hot
  water cylinder where the heated water enters the cylinder. Thereby heating
  the hot part of the stirling engine cycle. The flywheel attached to the
  engine could be used to generate electricity, providing the power for the
  house. A solar panel could charge batteries to take over when the output of
  the stirling engine drops below a certain level, at night or very cold
  winters for example. So fewer batteries, fewer solar panels for electricity
  and double use,(or triple if the house is water radiator heated), of the
  solar heated water.
  Wha'd'ya's think?
 
 I think the effectiveness of the Stirling Cycle engine is proportional to the
 difference in temperature (delta T) of the two active sides, and typical 
 low-tech
 solar thermal is not going to make enough of a temperature difference in most
 situations to justify the investment.  For me, I'll stick with solar thermal 
 for
 heating my water and house and PV for electricity (some day).  However, don't 
 let
 me discourage you from this kind of creative thinking - I think it's great.

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Re: [Biofuel] U.S. market doesn't make it

Yeah.  I want the 2.5l diesel D-max too.  But instead I just bought a
21 year old Mitsubishi pickup because that was the last time they
imported the diesel to the US.  I can't justify spending any money on
a car, new or old, that can't run on renewable fuels.

I suspect the problems in importing one will come from two areas --
DOT inspections, if the Thai model doesn't have all the ABS, airbags,
etc... that new US cars are required to have. And emissions.  If you
live in a metro area that does emissions testing, the diesel will
likely not pass new gas car emissions, and bureacracies like the DMV
hate thinking hard enough to test it as a diesel instead.  Because we
have such crappy diesel fuel in the US compared to most the rest of
the world emissions will be worse too.

South africa also has lots of diesels (as with all of africa, but I
think many are manufactured in S.A.).  What might work better is
finding an older diesel (90's) from japan or asia -- if it's not a new
car, it could fall under different requirements for importing it.  It
also might be different to import it as an individual, instead of for
resale -- I don't know.

Let us know if you get one.



On 9/17/05, DB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
 I want to buy me a small size pickup truck like the one I have (Nissan
 Frontier) BUT I want it to have a DIESEL engine instead of damm gas. All the
 following auto makers make what I want, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Izusu. None of
 these are available here in the used to be good ole USA. I called all these
 companies. None of them are going to help me...So I'm asking for help from
 the forum. Since I live in Hawaii I would think the Phillipines or Thailand
 would be the place to get either a Toyota Hilux or Izusu D max. I could make
 it a  business and pleasure trip. So I'm looking forward to hearing from
 you.Sincerely, DB Maloney 
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Re: [Biofuel] Carnot -- was Can this man save the world? (Hydrogeninjection)

2005-09-19 Thread Graeme Vagg

Kirk,

Jan's comments are closest to the real
situation. 35% would be the average thermal efficiency of Internal
Combustion Engines determined by the amount of work done (power output) divided
by ther amount of energy available in the fuel. Current petrol engines
have a thermal efficiency of about 30% and diesel engines about
40%.
The Carnot Efficiency is the maximum efficiency
possible for a heat engine operating between an upper and lower cycle
temperature limit. It is a reference value that actual efficiency is
compared with. The Carnot Efficiency for petrol engines operating on the
Otto Cycle is about 70% so the efficiency ratio of an engine at 30% compared to
the ideal Carnot cycle at 70% would be 42.8%.

Fuel cells are not heat engines so there would be
not Carnot Cycle reference value. As fuel is consumed you can still
determinea thermal efficiency value by comparing the work output with the
energy value of the fuel consumed.

See relevant textbooks on heat engines and
operating cycles for further clarification.

Graeme

- Original Message -
From:
Kirk
McLoren
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:27
AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Carnot -- was Can this
man save the world? (Hydrogeninjection)

The 35% is 35% of the theoretical Carnot, not 35% of the potential
energy of the fuel. And yes, the rest of the energy is in the exhaust pipe and
water jacket although it is almost all heat as unburned hydrocarbons is
usually not true any more.

This little measurement twist is why most don't realize that a 35%
efficient fuel cell and a 35% internal combustion engineare not the same
although I've seen some attempts at using Carnot to diddle fuel cell
numbers.

As for Carnot calculate the available work using Charles law. Then you
will see Carnot is useless for low temperature engines.

KirkJan Warnqvist
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Furthermore,
when the energy efficiency of a
combustion engine is 35% it means the relationship between added energy
(fuel) and the power that comes as a result. The rest of the energy is heat
energy, which becomestransported by the cooling system as well as
creating hot exhaust fumes. If you could use that heat for some purpose, you
will find that almost 100% of the added energy is accounted
for.
Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

+ 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45

- Original Message -
From:
Rexis Tree
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:05
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Can this man
save the world? (Hydrogen injection)
"Most internal combustion engines operate at about 35 per
cent efficiency. This means that only 35 per cent of the fuel is fully
burned. The rest either turns to carbon corroding the engine or goes out
the exhaust pipe as greenhouse gases."Wow, according to this in
theory if we make a 100% efficient internal combustion engine then we will
have a car with zero greenhouse gases emission and zero carbon corroding
to the engine!

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Air Cleaner (was advancement of car technology for 1)

here is a similar technology on a grand scale.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/01/05/australia.tower/

turn the fans off and this baby would shoot you to the stratosphere in a 
jiffy.


Joe Street wrote:
 Kewl!
 
 Me and my hang gliding buddies have been talking about something like 
 this for a while.  We are interested in using the convective force not 
 to drive air through filters but rather to trigger larger convective 
 currents in the air.  Yes I am talking about a thermal generator.  It 
 would be so nice to have a house thermal always reliable and present 
 on the location of our airfield.  Jason do you have any data on the 
 device?  What kind of air flow rate does it produce?  Is there an 
 optimal shape, are there advantages to building it next to special areas 
 like a woodlot or a pond from which it can draw cool air, or is it 
 better to have it in say an open feild where it can draw air which is 
 already somewhat heated by the surrounding soil?  What about materials 
 choices for cost vs. performance tradeoffs?
 
 Joe
 
 
 
Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted:

snip

 


P.S. for a look at another of my ideas to fight air pollution go here 
http://homepage.urbanet.ch/scaf/pages/flat_tab_medium_indexpag.html


 

 
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Ontario alternate power: Bullfrog

2005-09-19 Thread mark manchester

Thanks Zeke, yeah, good point.  I guess that makes them sort of legit.  As
much as anyone is, eh?
Jesse

 From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:46:31 -0600
 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ontario alternate power: Bullfrog
 
 It says that they have met the Canadian federal government's
 Environmental Choice Program EcoLogo standards, which I guess is what
 Canada uses instead of the Green-e certification that the US uses?
 
 On 9/19/05, mark manchester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Has anyone else seen this?  I don't know about the reliability of the info.
 Jesse
 
 http://truthforce.ca/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4346090942/m/8781025931/r/347109
 8931
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar technique could lead to cleaner, cheaper hydrogen

2005-09-19 Thread Richard Littrell







 Dear Ken,

That was phosphorus.

Rick

  
Ken Chua wrote:
  
  
Hi all,

Sodium in air will burn instantly and explosively. 
Wasn't this the reason Thomas Edison got fired and
lost part of his hearing because he let dry a piece of
sodium metal in the box car he was experimenting in. 
The box car burned to the ground too.  Sodium metal is
usually placed in oil to keep it from coming in
contact with air(oxygen) which is very explosive.

Best regards to all

--- bmolloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




  Hi All,
  This thread intrigued, so much so that I
posted it around among
friends for comment. One said that sodium was the
answer to generating cheap
hydrogen. The exchange as follows. Any comment,
anyone?
Regards,
Bob.




Sodium pill? What? How? Tell me more.


  
  
Very little to tell. Sixty-four years ago, in

  
  school chemistry, I learnt,

  
  
but did not see (because our school didn't have a

  
  lab) that if you threw a

  
  
small piece of sodium metal into a jar of water

  
  you got an explosive

  
  
reaction in which nascent hydrogen was formed.  Na

  
  + H2O = NaOH + H


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Re: [Biofuel] Carnot -- was Can this man save the world? (Hydrogeninjection)

2005-09-19 Thread Kirk McLoren

http://www.benwiens.com/energy4.html
Fuel cells are analyzed theoretically using the carnot ratio which, it is explained, applies to both heat engines as well as fuel cells. A simple second law analysis shows where the loss of efficiency in different fuel cells occurs. Energy concepts are based on the web-book "Energy Science Made Simple".

Internal combustion engines are rated at % of Carnot achieved and as I said before lowtemperature engines such as powered by flat plate collectors will not be even vaguely close to what Carnot would lead you to believe. That is why there are no successful ones. Use Charles law and tell me what you get from 200F heater and 70F bottom end. Then tell me the relevance of Carnot re that same operating range. BTW my favorite thermo book is "Heat Engines" by John F Sandfort as he doesn't get carried away splitting hairs. Of course Feinman's 3 volume set on physics is what I recommend to students.
KirkGraeme Vagg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Kirk,

Jan's comments are closest to the real situation. 35% would be the average thermal efficiency of Internal Combustion Engines determined by the amount of work done (power output) divided by ther amount of energy available in the fuel. Current petrol engines have a thermal efficiency of about 30% and diesel engines about 40%.
The Carnot Efficiency is the maximum efficiency possible for a heat engine operating between an upper and lower cycle temperature limit. It is a reference value that actual efficiency is compared with. The Carnot Efficiency for petrol engines operating on the Otto Cycle is about 70% so the efficiency ratio of an engine at 30% compared to the ideal Carnot cycle at 70% would be 42.8%.

Fuel cells are not heat engines so there would be not Carnot Cycle reference value. As fuel is consumed you can still determinea thermal efficiency value by comparing the work output with the energy value of the fuel consumed.

See relevant textbooks on heat engines and operating cycles for further clarification.

Graeme
Yahoo! for Good
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar technique could lead to cleaner, cheaper hydrogen

Howdy Rick and Ken,

  Potassium will burst into flame due to reaction with moist air, sodium 
will not.

  There are three allotropes of phosphorous.  Red (amorphous) and Black 
(laminar) are not particularly reactive (think of the red of a match 
head- that's red phosphorous)  Only white Phosphorous, P4, which has a 
tetrahedral structure, is reactive with oxygen.  It is stored under water.

Richard Littrell wrote:
 
 
  Dear Ken,
 
 That was phosphorus.
 
 Rick
 
Ken Chua wrote:
  

Hi all,

Sodium in air will burn instantly and explosively. 
Wasn't this the reason Thomas Edison got fired and
lost part of his hearing because he let dry a piece of
sodium metal in the box car he was experimenting in. 
The box car burned to the ground too.  Sodium metal is
usually placed in oil to keep it from coming in
contact with air(oxygen) which is very explosive.

Best regards to all

--- bmolloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Hi All,
  This thread intrigued, so much so that I
posted it around among
friends for comment. One said that sodium was the
answer to generating cheap
hydrogen. The exchange as follows. Any comment,
anyone?
Regards,
Bob.




Sodium pill? What? How? Tell me more.


  

Very little to tell. Sixty-four years ago, in


school chemistry, I learnt,

  

but did not see (because our school didn't have a


lab) that if you threw a

  

small piece of sodium metal into a jar of water


you got an explosive

  

reaction in which nascent hydrogen was formed.  Na


+ H2O = NaOH + H


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Re: [Biofuel] Carnot -- was Can this man save the world? (Hydrogeninjection)

 Internal combustion engines are rated at % of Carnot achieved and as I said
 before low temperature engines such as powered by flat plate collectors will
 not be even vaguely close to what Carnot would lead you to believe. That is
 why there are no successful ones. Use Charles law and tell me what you get
 from 200F heater and 70F bottom end. Then tell me the relevance of Carnot re
 that same operating range. BTW my favorite thermo book is Heat Engines by
 John F Sandfort as he doesn't get carried away splitting hairs. Of course
 Feinman's 3 volume set on physics is what I recommend to students. 

I was thought that you were referring to internal combustion engines
as low temperature engines (which they are compared to supercritical
steam turbines I guess...).  Now I get what you were talking about.

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Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method

Howdy Tom, I am surprised that the method works at all.  There is a 
fundamental problem with the pKa's of ethanol and methanol.  the 
equilibrium

   KOH + EtOH --  KOEt + H2O

favors the left side of the equasion

whereas for methanol

KOH + MeOH  ---  KOMe + H2O

favors the right side.


   The only way I know it would work is if you generate the KOEt via an 
alternative route as I suggested before.  Use K, KH, or dry the ethoxide 
mixture via azotropic distillation.


Tom Irwin wrote:
 Hi Bob,
  
 I use density to determine the purity of the ethanol and a mass balance 
 to check on my 3A regeneration technique. I have a fairly good Metler 
 balance (PR 203) that reads to the third decimal place so should be 
 accurate to the second. The procedure I'm trying to duplicate is the one 
 on JTF.
  
 *Ethyl Ester Process Scale-up and Biodegradability of Biodiesel*
 
 FINAL REPORT, No. 303, November 1996
 
 For the United States Department of Agriculture, Cooperative State 
 Research Service, Cooperative Agreement No. 93-COOP-1-8627
 
 University of Idaho, College of Agriculture, the University of Idaho.
 
 Is another method more reliable?
 
  
 
 Tom Irwin 
 
  
  
 
 
 *From:* bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 *Sent:* Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:17:27 -0300
 *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method
 
 Tom, two questions, 1. how do you know the ethanol is being dried?
 and 2. what procedure are you
 using for bioD from ethanol?
 Tom Irwin wrote:
   Hi Bob and all,
  
   I seem to be having fairly good success drying 95% ethanol with 3A
   molecular sieve. I still have horrible problems making BioD with
 100%
   ethanol (purchased)but I´m still working on it.
  
   Tom Irwin
  
  
 
   *From:* bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 javascript:kh6k0(new,[EMAIL PROTECTED])]
   *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 javascript:kh6k0(new,Biofuel@sustainablelists.org)
   *Sent:* Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:23:08 -0300
   *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method
  
   It is not easy, due to the fact that ethoxide, can't be made by the
   combination of sodium or potassium hydroxide and ethanol, as one does
   with base plus methanol to form methoxide. It can be done however via
   alternative ways of making the ethoxide:
  
   K + EtOH --- K(+) (-)OEt + 1/2 H2
  
   KH + EtOH --- K(+) (-)OEt + H2
  
   (don't try this at home- wildly flammable materials involved)
  
  
   or for someone with good laboratory skills:
  
   combine EtOH (absolute) + KOH, then distill off 95% Ethanol/5% water
   azeotrope to remove water, shifting the equilibrium to form the
   ethoxide
   ion.
  
  
   The problem is that you remove a lot of ethanol to get a small amt of
   water out. (there are ways to recover absolute ethanol via a ternary
   azeotrope, but I seriously doubt if it is either cost or energy
   effective.
  
  
  
   Kuba-tlen wrote:
Does anybody know how to do a biofuel usin ethanol? I mean 92%
   ethanol,
not dry ethanol. I've read that it is possible. O maybe somebody
   knows
how to easily dry ethanol?
   
   
   
  
 
   
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   Science is what we have learned about how to keep
   from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman
  
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Re: [Biofuel] engine swapping /was Debatable statement?


here is an engine swapping question for someone with more expertise than 
me (easily done);

I can get a nicely redone 79 (?) mg midget without an engine.  A guy 
apparently did a restoration job, then blew the engine.  I had 
considered putting a vw diesel in it.  My mechanic said he could 
manufacture the motor mounts/ do the install, but we have to go with the 
mg tranny,  a four speed.  After further discussions I asked what he 
though the engine rpm would be with this combination at 60 mph.  He 
guessed abut 4000 rpm, which seems cranked up way to tight. I then 
though about a datsun/isuzu (if i could even find one) with 
transmission, but I fear this combination will be too heavy.  any 
thoughts?



Trevon Kollars wrote:
 This is my area of expertise...  If you want to swap an engine, first be 
 sure that you really want to.  The reason is there are consecuences to 
 a swap.  You will lose in one area and gain in another or you may lose 
 all together.  The trick is finding an engine the will fit the car.  
 Most cars are designed around the person these days and cars of old were 
 designed around the motor.  What you need to know is the weight the 
 chasis can handle, the handling characteristics (suspension designed to 
 handle), and the gearing/rpm ratio.  Lets say you want to make your 2002 
 TDI pull a trailer weighing 2tons.  You want to swap your little 
 squirrel for a bear and put a 6.2L cummins diesel in it.  First, will it 
 fit? Second, is it too heavy? Third, is it practical?  Will this 6.2L be 
 as versitle as the 1.9L?  If I want to drive to the grocery store just 
 for groceries later on, will it be worth having the bear.
 You will also have to worry about the transmission.  Will I need to 
 change the transmission as well?  Now you may have extra cost that you 
 really don't need.  Plus, the weekend engine swap just turned into a 
 month long project.
 I learned this the hard way.  I wanted to swap my Vanagon engine with a 
 Passat VR6.  Love my van but not to fond of the low power engine.  It is 
 a good swap but I will sacrifice space, having to raise the deck lid up 
 3 inches and I will no longer be able to use the foldout bed.  The 
 weight changes, meaning I will have to beef up the suspension in the 
 rear.  The good part is that I am able to get an adapter plate for the 
 transmission and use the same gearing.  If I do this, I will be gaining 
 110 hp and 10 more mpg in the city.  The thing that is stopping me now 
 is the price, over $2000.
  
 Hope this helps with your decision.
  
 TK
 
 */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:
 
 I have a chipped and modified 2002 TDI. It's really two cars. If I
 shift before about 1800 rpm it gets 44-50 mpg, if I stomp it
 and race around it's like a VR6. It flies, but the mileage drops to
 high 30's. It easily goes 100 mph+.
 
 
 Greg and April wrote:
 
  I don't think that the transmission was optimized for fast
 acceleration,
  that little 4 banger diesel with only about 85 Hp is only capable
 of so
  much. The transmission is geared so low, that it doesn't take any
 effort
  to start from a dead stop in 2nd gear if necessary.
  
  Greg H.
  
  
  - Original Message -
  From: Zeke Yewdall
  To:
  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 14:55
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
  
  
  
  
  H. Are you sure you want to get that applied? The academics will
  be appalled. :)
  
  I am doing that right now with a VW rabbit, and I have settled on a
  SVO engine, vs an electric motor (with renewable energy to charge the
  batteries). The size and design of the engine is more dictacted by
  what is available, rather than what would be ideal. Same with the
  transmission. Luckily there are different transmission options that
  fit this vehical, so I can choose one which will be more efficient
  with the diesel engine than the stock transmission which was
 optimized
  for fast acceleration. This will not be the ideal solution based
  soley on engineering -- but it the one that is the best I can come up
  now with based on the constraints of finances, DOT regulations, fuel
  availability and characteristics, and a commute with lots of
 elevation
  change
  
  On 9/15/05, Greg and April wrote:
  
  
  Ok, given the same vehicle ( and about the same weight ), how
 does one
  
  
  go
  
  
  about picking a replacement engine and perhaps the replacing the
  transmission as well?
  
  The reason I ask, is that I would like to replace the engine I
 have with
  
  
  a
  
  
  better engine, but, I don't want to over power.
  
  Greg H.
 
 
 Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate

Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point

2005-09-19 Thread Ken Provost


On Sep 19, 2005, at 8:23 AM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:


  it could be argued that, if indeed we have reached a tipping  
 point, that
 preventing global warming is moot, and we should do whatever we can to
 deal with the effects of global warming.


We should do that anyway..


 There are other reasons to cut fossil fuel use besides global warming
 (societal, global equity, peak oil, local pollution, etc), but  
 perhaps we've
 already done the damage on the global warming front.


We've undoubtedly done MUCH damage, but there is much more we
could do or choose not to. I bet if we tried hard enough, we could have
runaway greenhouse effect and end up like Venus. OTOH, If we get
control of our appetites and denial quickly, we may only lose a few
thousand species and a few million people.

-K

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Re: [Biofuel] engine swapping /was Debatable statement?

The 1.6 liter VW diesel will rev to about 5,000.  Now, it is quite
loud at that point, and the fuel economy degrades (best at about
2,000), but it will do it.   I think the new TDI VW diesels are
redlined at 4,500 rpm (with peak fuel economy at 1800).  There's a
discussion forum vwdiesel.net that has more than you probably could
want to know about the VW diesels, both new ones and the old ones.

I have heard (from a friend who has two MG's) that you can put the
rover V8 engines in them, so I suspect the Isuzu diesel would work. 
Should handle the weight, as well as have space to work with.  I saw a
2.2 isuzu, with transmission, for sale on ebay about a month ago.  Or
maybe it was the 2.2 Mazda/perkins.  Can't remember.  You can get the
2.0 and 2.5 liter nissan diesel's new (for industrial applications)
even.  Being a 1979, you are probably exempt from any emissions
testing, which could be a problem putting an industrial diesel in a
newer car (ironic that emissions regulations in the US actually hinder
us from saving the planet -- keep it clean locally while screwing the
rest of the world)

Zeke

On 9/19/05, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 here is an engine swapping question for someone with more expertise than
 me (easily done);
 
 I can get a nicely redone 79 (?) mg midget without an engine.  A guy
 apparently did a restoration job, then blew the engine.  I had
 considered putting a vw diesel in it.  My mechanic said he could
 manufacture the motor mounts/ do the install, but we have to go with the
 mg tranny,  a four speed.  After further discussions I asked what he
 though the engine rpm would be with this combination at 60 mph.  He
 guessed abut 4000 rpm, which seems cranked up way to tight. I then
 though about a datsun/isuzu (if i could even find one) with
 transmission, but I fear this combination will be too heavy.  any
 thoughts?

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Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Morality Question

2005-09-19 Thread Jason




Unless I had a digital camera. I'd save the 
film.

Jason
 In a message dated 9/17/05 6:17:17 PM, dougwrites: 
 We did? Looks like my vote got ignored yet again. 
 I'd choose the black and white, color film leaves nothing for 
the imagination...
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Air Cleaner

2005-09-19 Thread Jason

Hi Joe,

Nice idea :)

''I am talking about a thermal generator.  It would be so nice to have a 
house thermal always reliable and present on the location of our 
airfield.''

The speed of the wind a solar tower creates is dependent on two main things. 
The size of the solar collection area, ie the glass roof, the biger it is 
the hotter you can get the air before it exits through the chimney. Which is 
the second and possibly the most important when considering generating 
draft. The higher the chimney the faster the generated draft. These two 
points may put a crimp in the idea. Do you have the space? and won't the 
chimney be a flying hasard if it is located at the airfield?

But then, you're not really interested in wind speed per sé but more a 
thermal. So you could build a (circular) glass roof a metre off the ground 
in as big an area as possible with a slight inclination up to the centre. 
Instead of a tall chimney to generate high wind speed just use a short one 
of 1 or 2 metres. The strength of your resulting 'thermal' will depend on: 
the size of your collection area glass roof combined with your local solar 
constant, (in space on the edge of our atmosphere 1.37kW/m² but the maximum 
value on earth is between 0.8 and 1.0kW/m² depending on where you are), and 
the thermal properties of the glazing you choose. The SCAF uses tempered 
glass for safety reasons as it is in a public place. Your local glazier is 
the best person to speak to about glass choice. This will also determine 
what material you need to use for the support structure as different glasses 
have different wieghts. But then you wouldn't need to use glass! Gardeners 
have been using thermal plastics to build greenhouses for years now. The 
whole thing could be built with a wooden frame and greenhouse plastic. The 
SCAF could too, but it wouldn't look as nice, requires more maintenance and 
is more prone to vandalism.

''Is there an optimal shape, are there advantages to building it next to 
special areas
 like a woodlot or a pond from which it can draw cool air, or is it
 better to have it in say an open feild where it can draw air which is
 already somewhat heated by the surrounding soil?''

No real optimum shape as long as it slopes up to one point in the centre and 
is as big as possible.
In a clear area so as not to impede airflow and because you want a 
'thermal', the warmer the air is before it enters the better, so near a 
large body of water is not a great idea. Not only would it cool the air 
before it enters the structure (water absorbs heat better than land as you 
know) but could also create interfering wind currents.

Well those are my thoughts. Hope they helped.



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[Biofuel] plans for gasifier cooking stove?

2005-09-19 Thread Erik Andelman

Hello all,

I'd like to make a cookstove which burns a flame under the pot, the
flame being from producer gas.

Does anyone have plans for such a stove?

Thanks,
Erik

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Re: [Biofuel] engine swapping /was Debatable statement?

Emissions testing, hey we don't need (do) no stinkin' emissions testing 
here in Arkansas!

thanks Zeke.

Zeke Yewdall wrote:
 The 1.6 liter VW diesel will rev to about 5,000.  Now, it is quite
 loud at that point, and the fuel economy degrades (best at about
 2,000), but it will do it.   I think the new TDI VW diesels are
 redlined at 4,500 rpm (with peak fuel economy at 1800).  There's a
 discussion forum vwdiesel.net that has more than you probably could
 want to know about the VW diesels, both new ones and the old ones.
 
 I have heard (from a friend who has two MG's) that you can put the
 rover V8 engines in them, so I suspect the Isuzu diesel would work. 
 Should handle the weight, as well as have space to work with.  I saw a
 2.2 isuzu, with transmission, for sale on ebay about a month ago.  Or
 maybe it was the 2.2 Mazda/perkins.  Can't remember.  You can get the
 2.0 and 2.5 liter nissan diesel's new (for industrial applications)
 even.  Being a 1979, you are probably exempt from any emissions
 testing, which could be a problem putting an industrial diesel in a
 newer car (ironic that emissions regulations in the US actually hinder
 us from saving the planet -- keep it clean locally while screwing the
 rest of the world)
 
 Zeke
 
 On 9/19/05, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
here is an engine swapping question for someone with more expertise than
me (easily done);

I can get a nicely redone 79 (?) mg midget without an engine.  A guy
apparently did a restoration job, then blew the engine.  I had
considered putting a vw diesel in it.  My mechanic said he could
manufacture the motor mounts/ do the install, but we have to go with the
mg tranny,  a four speed.  After further discussions I asked what he
though the engine rpm would be with this combination at 60 mph.  He
guessed abut 4000 rpm, which seems cranked up way to tight. I then
though about a datsun/isuzu (if i could even find one) with
transmission, but I fear this combination will be too heavy.  any
thoughts?

-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: war now

2005-09-19 Thread Keith Addison

Also see 
http://www.americas.org/item_19275http://www.americas.org/item_19275

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/12654463.htmhttp://www.miami.c 
om/mld/miamiherald/12654463.htm

Kirk

U.S. WAR PENDING AGAINST VENEZUELA?

Sunday, September 18, 2005 - FreeMarketNews.com

American warships have assembled off the shores of Venezuela, and a
war between the two countries seems to be fast approaching, according
to international wire reports. Recently, U.S. soldiers traveled to
Curacao, an island off Venezuelas northwest coast, for what U.S.
officials claimed was rest and relaxation. Venezuelan President
Hugo Chavez claims the U.S. is readying a foolhardy enterprise,
that would result in a 100-year war. We are prepared.

snip

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10318.htm

Hurricane Hugo at the U.N. 

By Mike Whitney 

09/18/05 ICH -- -- Practically no one in the United States knows 
that we've donated millions of dollars to the governorship of 
Louisiana, to the New Orleans Red Cross. We're now giving care to 
more than 5,000 victims, and now we're going to supply gasoline, 
freely in some cases, and with discounts in other cases, to the 
poorest of communities, starting with New Orleans and its 
surroundings... We've been helping. And we've been even rescuing 
people. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez; Nightline with Ted 
Koppel, 9-16-05 

Hugo Chavez's performance at the UN was greeted with the bucket-loads 
of bile that one expects from America's rightward-titling media. 
Washington Post hatchet-man Colum Lynch provided a typical summary of 
the speech by dismissing it as a rant from the Venezuelan 
bad-boy. But, Lynch isn't alone in his hostility; the outpouring of 
venom came from all corners; appearing in many newspapers across the 
nation, invoking the hackneyed expressions of contempt for any 
foreign leader who rebuffs Washington or who follows redistributive 
economic policies. 

In fact, the speech was a brilliant and impassioned analysis of the 
current state of the world and of the United Nations. Chavez noted 
that the original intention of the gathering had been completely 
distorted by the so-called reform process introduced by John Bolton. 
The reforms are entirely designed to transform the UN into a cats-paw 
for American power creating greater flexibility for Washington's 
preemptive wars and for dismantling the foundations of international 
law. They signal the demise of the UN as a legitimate forum for world 
development and an invitation for Bush and co. to act with even 
greater impunity. 

The Bush administration's maneuvering has successfully sabotaged the 
efforts made by the international community for real improvement. The 
goals of the Millennium Summit, to reduce hunger, poverty and 
ignorance, will not be achieved and the mission of the UN has been 
effectively torpedoed by Bolton's machinations. Chavez speech draws 
this same obvious conclusion: Friends of the world, The United 
Nations has exhausted its model, and it is not all about reform. The 
XXI century claims deep changes that will only be possible if a new 
organization is founded. This UN does not work. We have to say it. It 
is the truth. 

Chavez's remarks are not intended to disgrace the UN, but to offer a 
different vision for the future. He recognizes the pressing 
requirements of the new century and realizes that many of these 
problems do not have a national solution: radioactive clouds, world 
oil prices, diseases, warming of the planet or the hole in the ozone 
layer. These are not domestic problems. 

Chavez proposes his own set of reforms for the UN, including 
expansion of the Security Council, greater transparency, increasing 
the powers of the Secretary General, and suppressing the power of 
one nation to veto resolutions made by the council. But, he does not 
believe that reforms are enough by themselves and insists that the UN 
be transformed completely, beginning with a change of venue from New 
York to an international city with its own sovereignty. Chavez's 
logic is inescapable; if the United States continues to flaunt UN 
resolutions and violate international law, as it has with the Iraq 
war, it should not be host to the world body. Chavez's suggestion was 
not made to humiliate the United States, but to demonstrate the 
urgency of the calamity the world faces if action is not taken 
swiftly on matters of mutual concern. Chavez takes a keen interest in 
these issues even though Washington chooses to ignore them. 

Ladies and gentlemen, we are facing an unprecedented energy crisis 
in which an unstoppable increase of energy is perilously reaching 
record highs, as well as the incapacity of increase oil supply and 
the perspective of a decline in the proven reserves of fuel 
worldwide. Oil is starting to become exhausted. 

For the year 2020 the daily demand for oil will be 120 million 
barrels. Such demand, even without counting future increments- would 
consume in 20 years what

[Biofuel] Rove to rebuilt New Orleans

So according to the New York Times, Carl Rove is in charge of
rebuilding New Orleans??

I think I'm going to be sick.

http://select.nytimes.com/2005/09/19/opinion/19herbert.html?hp

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Re: [Biofuel] engine swapping /was Debatable statement?

Besides, if you run it on biodiesel (I assume that's the plan) the
emissions are much lower than for diesel anyway.  My truck went from
48% smoke to 9% smoke when I switched fuels.  Combination of the
better fuel, and probably cleaning out the old gunked up injectors

On 9/19/05, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Emissions testing, hey we don't need (do) no stinkin' emissions testing
 here in Arkansas!
 
 thanks Zeke.
 
 Zeke Yewdall wrote:
  The 1.6 liter VW diesel will rev to about 5,000.  Now, it is quite
  loud at that point, and the fuel economy degrades (best at about
  2,000), but it will do it.   I think the new TDI VW diesels are
  redlined at 4,500 rpm (with peak fuel economy at 1800).  There's a
  discussion forum vwdiesel.net that has more than you probably could
  want to know about the VW diesels, both new ones and the old ones.
 
  I have heard (from a friend who has two MG's) that you can put the
  rover V8 engines in them, so I suspect the Isuzu diesel would work.
  Should handle the weight, as well as have space to work with.  I saw a
  2.2 isuzu, with transmission, for sale on ebay about a month ago.  Or
  maybe it was the 2.2 Mazda/perkins.  Can't remember.  You can get the
  2.0 and 2.5 liter nissan diesel's new (for industrial applications)
  even.  Being a 1979, you are probably exempt from any emissions
  testing, which could be a problem putting an industrial diesel in a
  newer car (ironic that emissions regulations in the US actually hinder
  us from saving the planet -- keep it clean locally while screwing the
  rest of the world)
 
  Zeke
 
  On 9/19/05, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 here is an engine swapping question for someone with more expertise than
 me (easily done);
 
 I can get a nicely redone 79 (?) mg midget without an engine.  A guy
 apparently did a restoration job, then blew the engine.  I had
 considered putting a vw diesel in it.  My mechanic said he could
 manufacture the motor mounts/ do the install, but we have to go with the
 mg tranny,  a four speed.  After further discussions I asked what he
 though the engine rpm would be with this combination at 60 mph.  He
 guessed abut 4000 rpm, which seems cranked up way to tight. I then
 though about a datsun/isuzu (if i could even find one) with
 transmission, but I fear this combination will be too heavy.  any
 thoughts?
 
 --
 Bob Allen
 http://ozarker.org/bob
 
 Science is what we have learned about how to keep
 from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman
 
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Re: [Biofuel] engine swapping /was Debatable statement?

2005-09-19 Thread S. Chapin

Ooops, duh maybe because the TDI is front wheel drive?
Sorry
S. Chapin


bob allen wrote:

Emissions testing, hey we don't need (do) no stinkin' emissions testing 
here in Arkansas!

thanks Zeke.

Zeke Yewdall wrote:
  

The 1.6 liter VW diesel will rev to about 5,000.  Now, it is quite
loud at that point, and the fuel economy degrades (best at about
2,000), but it will do it.   I think the new TDI VW diesels are
redlined at 4,500 rpm (with peak fuel economy at 1800).  There's a
discussion forum vwdiesel.net that has more than you probably could
want to know about the VW diesels, both new ones and the old ones.

I have heard (from a friend who has two MG's) that you can put the
rover V8 engines in them, so I suspect the Isuzu diesel would work. 
Should handle the weight, as well as have space to work with.  I saw a
2.2 isuzu, with transmission, for sale on ebay about a month ago.  Or
maybe it was the 2.2 Mazda/perkins.  Can't remember.  You can get the
2.0 and 2.5 liter nissan diesel's new (for industrial applications)
even.  Being a 1979, you are probably exempt from any emissions
testing, which could be a problem putting an industrial diesel in a
newer car (ironic that emissions regulations in the US actually hinder
us from saving the planet -- keep it clean locally while screwing the
rest of the world)

Zeke

On 9/19/05, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



here is an engine swapping question for someone with more expertise than
me (easily done);

I can get a nicely redone 79 (?) mg midget without an engine.  A guy
apparently did a restoration job, then blew the engine.  I had
considered putting a vw diesel in it.  My mechanic said he could
manufacture the motor mounts/ do the install, but we have to go with the
mg tranny,  a four speed.  After further discussions I asked what he
though the engine rpm would be with this combination at 60 mph.  He
guessed abut 4000 rpm, which seems cranked up way to tight. I then
though about a datsun/isuzu (if i could even find one) with
transmission, but I fear this combination will be too heavy.  any
thoughts?
  


  



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Re: [Biofuel] engine swapping /was Debatable statement?

2005-09-19 Thread S. Chapin

I'm not sure about midgets, or the later mgb, but some mgb's had an 
overdrive as did P1800 volvo and some healey's.
I think they were all electric. I would look into mating the vw tdi with 
the volvo unit, but? Why not find a TDI trans to put in the midget?
S. Chapin



bob allen wrote:

Emissions testing, hey we don't need (do) no stinkin' emissions testing 
here in Arkansas!

thanks Zeke.

Zeke Yewdall wrote:
  

The 1.6 liter VW diesel will rev to about 5,000.  Now, it is quite
loud at that point, and the fuel economy degrades (best at about
2,000), but it will do it.   I think the new TDI VW diesels are
redlined at 4,500 rpm (with peak fuel economy at 1800).  There's a
discussion forum vwdiesel.net that has more than you probably could
want to know about the VW diesels, both new ones and the old ones.

I have heard (from a friend who has two MG's) that you can put the
rover V8 engines in them, so I suspect the Isuzu diesel would work. 
Should handle the weight, as well as have space to work with.  I saw a
2.2 isuzu, with transmission, for sale on ebay about a month ago.  Or
maybe it was the 2.2 Mazda/perkins.  Can't remember.  You can get the
2.0 and 2.5 liter nissan diesel's new (for industrial applications)
even.  Being a 1979, you are probably exempt from any emissions
testing, which could be a problem putting an industrial diesel in a
newer car (ironic that emissions regulations in the US actually hinder
us from saving the planet -- keep it clean locally while screwing the
rest of the world)

Zeke

On 9/19/05, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



here is an engine swapping question for someone with more expertise than
me (easily done);

I can get a nicely redone 79 (?) mg midget without an engine.  A guy
apparently did a restoration job, then blew the engine.  I had
considered putting a vw diesel in it.  My mechanic said he could
manufacture the motor mounts/ do the install, but we have to go with the
mg tranny,  a four speed.  After further discussions I asked what he
though the engine rpm would be with this combination at 60 mph.  He
guessed abut 4000 rpm, which seems cranked up way to tight. I then
though about a datsun/isuzu (if i could even find one) with
transmission, but I fear this combination will be too heavy.  any
thoughts?
  


  



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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Air Cleaner

2005-09-19 Thread Joe Street





Hi Jason;

Thanks for the response. Do you know if the device incorporates
baffles so that the incoming air does not simply move radialy? In the
northern hemisphere due to corriolis effect air rushing in to replace
rising air is deflected to the right (as viewed from above) so that
dust devils swirl counter clocwise (from above). Often when I am
circling in a thermal I can see the swirling air in the crops below
me. Also I am curious about your comments regarding moisture. As a
bubble of warm air rises it expands. The expansion results in cooling
according to gas laws but as long as the bubble is rising into
surrounding air which is cooler it remains bouyant and continues to
rise. When the air cools to the saturation temperature of the moisture
it is carrying there is a knee in the energy curve due to the heat of
vaporization of water. As vapor condenses into droplets heat is
released into the bubble dramatically increasing it's bouyancy. I
regularly see a dramatic increase in my climb rate as I approach the
bottom of a cloud for this reason. In fact in larger clouds there is a
scary suction effect which hauls in surrounding air horizontally from
the perimeter of the cloud base and at times when trying to escape the
bottom of the cloud this inrushing air can act as a strong headwind
preventing a slow flying glider from escaping! I digress but the point
I am getting to is that moistuizing the air while under the glass
section may lead to tremendous increase of the pumping effect of the
chimney if the air can cool to the saturation point within the column.
I don't know if you have considered that.

Joe

Jason wrote:

  Hi Joe,

Nice idea :)

''I am talking about a thermal generator.  It would be so nice to have a 
"house" thermal always reliable and present on the location of our 
airfield.''

The speed of the wind a solar tower creates is dependent on two main things. 
The size of the solar collection area, ie the glass roof, the biger it is 
the hotter you can get the air before it exits through the chimney. Which is 
the second and possibly the most important when considering generating 
draft. The higher the chimney the faster the generated draft. These two 
points may put a crimp in the idea. Do you have the space? and won't the 
chimney be a flying hasard if it is located at the airfield?

But then, you're not really interested in wind speed per s but more a 
thermal. So you could build a (circular) glass roof a metre off the ground 
in as big an area as possible with a slight inclination up to the centre. 
Instead of a tall chimney to generate high wind speed just use a short one 
of 1 or 2 metres. The strength of your resulting 'thermal' will depend on: 
the size of your collection area glass roof combined with your local solar 
constant, (in space on the edge of our atmosphere 1.37kW/m but the maximum 
value on earth is between 0.8 and 1.0kW/m depending on where you are), and 
the thermal properties of the glazing you choose. The SCAF uses tempered 
glass for safety reasons as it is in a public place. Your local glazier is 
the best person to speak to about glass choice. This will also determine 
what material you need to use for the support structure as different glasses 
have different wieghts. But then you wouldn't need to use glass! Gardeners 
have been using thermal plastics to build greenhouses for years now. The 
whole thing could be built with a wooden frame and greenhouse plastic. The 
SCAF could too, but it wouldn't look as nice, requires more maintenance and 
is more prone to vandalism.

''Is there an optimal shape, are there advantages to building it next to 
special areas
  
  
like a woodlot or a pond from which it can draw cool air, or is it
better to have it in say an open feild where it can draw air which is
already somewhat heated by the surrounding soil?''

  
  
No real optimum shape as long as it slopes up to one point in the centre and 
is as big as possible.
In a clear area so as not to impede airflow and because you want a 
'thermal', the warmer the air is before it enters the better, so near a 
large body of water is not a great idea. Not only would it cool the air 
before it enters the structure (water absorbs heat better than land as you 
know) but could also create interfering wind currents.

Well those are my thoughts. Hope they helped.



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Re: [Biofuel] engine swapping /was Debatable statement?

If you're doing a engine-to-bellhousing adaptor anyway, why not use a
5 speed tranny from a small rear wheel drive toyota pickup or such?

On 9/19/05, S. Chapin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ooops, duh maybe because the TDI is front wheel drive?
 Sorry
 S. Chapin
 
 
 bob allen wrote:
 
 Emissions testing, hey we don't need (do) no stinkin' emissions testing
 here in Arkansas!
 
 thanks Zeke.
 
 Zeke Yewdall wrote:
 
 
 The 1.6 liter VW diesel will rev to about 5,000.  Now, it is quite
 loud at that point, and the fuel economy degrades (best at about
 2,000), but it will do it.   I think the new TDI VW diesels are
 redlined at 4,500 rpm (with peak fuel economy at 1800).  There's a
 discussion forum vwdiesel.net that has more than you probably could
 want to know about the VW diesels, both new ones and the old ones.
 
 I have heard (from a friend who has two MG's) that you can put the
 rover V8 engines in them, so I suspect the Isuzu diesel would work.
 Should handle the weight, as well as have space to work with.  I saw a
 2.2 isuzu, with transmission, for sale on ebay about a month ago.  Or
 maybe it was the 2.2 Mazda/perkins.  Can't remember.  You can get the
 2.0 and 2.5 liter nissan diesel's new (for industrial applications)
 even.  Being a 1979, you are probably exempt from any emissions
 testing, which could be a problem putting an industrial diesel in a
 newer car (ironic that emissions regulations in the US actually hinder
 us from saving the planet -- keep it clean locally while screwing the
 rest of the world)
 
 Zeke
 
 On 9/19/05, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 here is an engine swapping question for someone with more expertise than
 me (easily done);
 
 I can get a nicely redone 79 (?) mg midget without an engine.  A guy
 apparently did a restoration job, then blew the engine.  I had
 considered putting a vw diesel in it.  My mechanic said he could
 manufacture the motor mounts/ do the install, but we have to go with the
 mg tranny,  a four speed.  After further discussions I asked what he
 though the engine rpm would be with this combination at 60 mph.  He
 guessed abut 4000 rpm, which seems cranked up way to tight. I then
 though about a datsun/isuzu (if i could even find one) with
 transmission, but I fear this combination will be too heavy.  any
 thoughts?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] plans for gasifier cooking stove?

2005-09-19 Thread Keith Addison

Hello all,

I'd like to make a cookstove which burns a flame under the pot, the
flame being from producer gas.

Does anyone have plans for such a stove?

Thanks,
Erik

See:

Wood-gas stoves
http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgasstoves

Cookstoves for schools -- A wood-gas stove made from three tin cans.
http://journeytoforever.org/teststove.html

Best wishes

Keith


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[Biofuel] Cindy Sheehan arrested in Manhattan

FYI:

...Mike

___

From: MA PA [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: BREAKING: Cindy Sheehan arrested in ManhattanDate: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:26:05 -0400 (EDT)BREAKING: Cindy Sheehan arrested in Manhattanby Five of DiamondsMon Sep 19th, 2005 at 12:42:39 PDTI witnessed this with my own eyes. Here is my account.Cindy Sheehan was arrested moments ago in Union Square, Manhattan for allegedly speaking in the square without the proper permit.A small group of police began to congregate around 2:00 on the south east corner of Union Square. Cindy and her peace entourage were slightly late to the event, contending with public transportation.Upon her arrival, applause and cheers filled the crowd awaiting her speech. A few other members of the tour movement spoke. Afterward, about 2:50, Cindy began her speech. It was friendly and
 empowering. She was grateful for the support and urged everyone to go to Washington DC on the 24th of September for a march on Washington.At the conclusion of her speech, from my perspective, a few loud and impassioned boos erupted, then I saw a hand come from behind Cindy and grab her shoulder-strap on her backpack. The arm jerked her backwards, with such force as to snap her head forward, and she fell from my view.The crowd erupted in booing and jeering. The crowd rushed the elevated park where she once stood, not to fight but to witness what was happening. People crowded the police, who had formed a semi-circle around what was happening to Cindy (which I could not witness from my vantage point)."Nazis," "Gestapo," "free speech," "burn the constitution," "traitors," "you can't have her," could be heard from all sides of the angry crowd. The police stood shoulder-to-shoulder with
 emotionless looks on their faces. One woman from the tour, I did not see who, urged everyone to that it is a waste of energy to yell at the police, we can't stop it from happening, but what we can do is trumpet this event to the rest of the United States.Many media cameras were there. One New York Times reporter was also there (at least), and she was moving around the crowd asking questions. Upon the arrest, she inserted herself into the middle of the screaming, recording it all with her mini-recorder.I'm not sure the details of the permit situation. The announcer said they sought a permit for weeks with no response from the city government.Spread the word! More as it unfolds.UPDATE: Details prompted by comments There was no violence, no violent rhetoric, and the spirit of the event was positive and strong. She was only there for about 10 minutes before she spoke, and spoke for about 5
 minutes. The crowd was respectful and peaceful. Cindy and the other speakers were using a microphone and speakers, which may have caused the problem with the permits. The announcer told the crowd that they had been officially warned before Cindy got there. I'm trying to find out the permit stuff right now. She was speaking at "Camp Casey NYC" in Union Square. It was a planned event, advertised in the newspaper. And from what I heard (Union Square is a noisy place), they tried to get a permit but did not get a response from city government after many messages were left. My view was not the best, so I did not see if it was a cop behind her that jerked her away. The immediate booing and rushing of the "stage" (a large part of the park raised by about 3 steps) made me believe it was the police. I could not see if she resisted or not. Sorry for the bad view...I wish I had more. Watch the wires, this will be out soon.http://www.livejournal.com/users/mparent/2913402.html___
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Re: [Biofuel] Cindy Sheehan arrested in Manhattan

http://villagevoice.com/news/0538,fergusonshee,67983,2.html

Google is starting to find stories on it.  Be interesting to see what
the main stream media makes of it

On 9/19/05, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 FYI: 
 
   
 
 ...Mike 
 
   
 
 ___ 
 
   
 
 From: MA PA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: BREAKING: Cindy Sheehan arrested in Manhattan
 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:26:05 -0400 (EDT)
 
 BREAKING: Cindy Sheehan arrested in Manhattan
 by Five of Diamonds
 Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 12:42:39 PDT
 I witnessed this with my own eyes.  Here is my account.
 
 Cindy Sheehan was arrested moments ago in Union Square, Manhattan for 
 allegedly speaking in the square without the proper permit.
 
 A small group of police began to congregate around 2:00 on the south east 
 corner of Union Square.  Cindy and her peace entourage were slightly late to
 the event, contending with public transportation.
 
 Upon her arrival, applause and cheers filled the crowd awaiting her speech. 
 A few other members of the tour movement spoke.  Afterward, about 2:50, 
 Cindy began her speech.  It was friendly and empowering.  She was grateful 
 for the support and urged everyone to go to Washington DC on the 24th of 
 September for a march on Washington.
 
 At the conclusion of her speech, from  my perspective, a few loud and 
 impassioned boos erupted, then I saw a hand come from behind Cindy and grab 
 her shoulder-strap on her backpack.  The arm jerked her backwards, with such
 force as to snap her head forward, and she fell from my view.
 
 The crowd erupted in booing and jeering.  The crowd rushed the elevated park
 where she once stood, not to fight but to witness what was happening.  
 People crowded the police, who had formed a semi-circle around what was 
 happening to Cindy (which I could not witness from my vantage point).
 
 Nazis, Gestapo, free speech, burn the constitution, traitors, you
 can't have her, could be heard from all sides of the angry crowd.  The 
 police stood shoulder-to-shoulder with emotionless looks on their faces.  
 One woman from the tour, I did not see who, urged everyone to that it is a 
 waste of energy to yell at the police, we can't stop it from happening, but 
 what we can do is trumpet this event to the rest of the United States.
 
 Many media cameras were there.  One New York Times reporter was also there 
 (at least), and she was moving around the crowd asking questions.  Upon the 
 arrest, she inserted herself into the middle of the screaming, recording it 
 all with her mini-recorder.
 
 I'm not sure the details of the permit situation.  The announcer said they 
 sought a permit for weeks with no response from the city government.
 
 Spread the word!  More as it unfolds.
 UPDATE: Details prompted by comments There was no violence, no violent 
 rhetoric, and the spirit of the event was positive and strong. She was only 
 there for about 10 minutes before she spoke, and spoke for about 5 minutes. 
 The crowd was respectful and peaceful. Cindy and the other speakers were 
 using a microphone and speakers, which may have caused the problem with the 
 permits. The announcer told the crowd that they had been officially warned 
 before Cindy got there. I'm trying to find out the permit stuff right now. 
 She was speaking at Camp Casey NYC in Union Square. It was a planned 
 event, advertised in the newspaper. And from what I heard (Union Square is a
 noisy place), they tried to get a permit but did not get a response from 
 city government after many messages were left. My view was not the best, so 
 I did not see if it was a cop behind her that jerked her away. The immediate
 booing and rushing of the stage (a large part of the park raised by about 
 3 steps) made me believe
   it was the police. I could not see if she resisted or not. Sorry for the 
 bad view...I wish I had more. Watch the wires, this will be out soon.
 
 http://www.livejournal.com/users/mparent/2913402.html
  
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 messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] Q to Prof. Bob Allen Re: Na2SO4

I don't see why not.


Chris wrote:
 Dear Prof.Allen:
 
  
 
 Good day!
 
  
 
 Can final drying of BD can be done with anhydrous Na2S04? We use it all 
 the time in organic chem lab. Can Na2SO4 be regenerated, perhaps by 
 heating, and then reused?
 
  
 
 Best regards,
 
 Chris
 
 
 
 
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 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
 Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
 Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/92 - Release Date: 9/7/2005


-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Q to Prof. Bob Allen Re: Na2SO4

2005-09-19 Thread Chris

Thank you, Sir.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:01 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Q to Prof. Bob Allen Re: Na2SO4

I don't see why not.


Chris wrote:
 Dear Prof.Allen:
 
  
 
 Good day!
 
  
 
 Can final drying of BD can be done with anhydrous Na2S04? We use it
all 
 the time in organic chem lab. Can Na2SO4 be regenerated, perhaps by 
 heating, and then reused?
 
  
 
 Best regards,
 
 Chris
 
 


 
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 Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/92 - Release Date:
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-- 
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Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] engine swapping /was Debatable statement?

2005-09-19 Thread capt3d


bob,

be sure to check into this if you haven't already. illinois law, as in most states if i'm not mistaken, only exempts older vehicles if they are driven less than a set number of miles annually (in illinois, 5000 m/year).

-chris b.


Zeke Yewdall wrote:

Being a 1979, you are probably exempt from any emissions testing. . . .
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Re: [Biofuel] engine swapping /was Debatable statement?

not to worry, in Arkansas we have never had emissions testing, and and 
abandoned any vehicle 
inspection a few years ago.  No insurance, no license plates, no headlights, 
broken windshields, no 
problem.  By law you should have all the above, but in reality, unless 
something happens (a wreck) 
one is not stopped.  It is really a joke, if your registration is out of date, 
just remove the tag!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 bob,
  
 be sure to check into this if you haven't already.  illinois law, as in 
 most states if i'm not mistaken, only exempts older vehicles if they are 
 driven less than a set number of miles annually (in illinois, 5000 m/year).
  
 -chris b.
  
  
 Zeke Yewdall wrote:
  
  Being a 1979, you are probably exempt from any emissions testing. . . .
 
 
 
 
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from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman

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[Biofuel] Flat Panel Solar Water Heater

2005-09-19 Thread Ken Dunn

Hi all,

I'm trying to collect materials to build a solar hot water
heater. I have a few questions for the initiated. I have
been thinking that my most affordable way to go would be to use
abandoned sliding glass doors (double pane of course) for my
glazing. I can't imagine that there would be any problems with
this approach unless they were tinted. Obviously, I would avoid
that.

Does some smart individual have a recommendation for the copper tubing
diameter within the collector? Also, all of the designs that I
see incorporate a single serpentine or two manifolds at either end of
the collector connected by a series of parellel smaller diameter
tubes. I wonder if I could create a hybrid of this design using
multiple overlapping serpentines connected by two manifolds. This
is hard for me to descibe. I envision the individual tubes making
contact somewhere near the bends. My thoughts are:
1. This idea would work quite well
2. There wouldn't be enough heat produced to sufficiently heat the water.
3. This could be just riddled with leaks
4 Both 2 and 3.

Does the bulk of the heat produced come from the Sun's radiation or convection within the collector?
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Re: [Biofuel] Rove to rebuild New Orleans

2005-09-19 Thread marilyn

Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote:
So according to the New York Times, Carl Rove is in charge of
rebuilding New Orleans??

I think I'm going to be sick.

http://select.nytimes.com/2005/09/19/opinion/19herbert.html?hp;

..and equally mystifying, the same article says Pat Robertson's 
charitable organization is prominently listed on the FEMA Web 
site to receive donations. If more religious organizations 
advocate bumping off foreign leaders, maybe they'll be 
recommended to:

WHEN there's money on the line, cronies always come first in 
this White House, no matter how great the human suffering. After 
Katrina, the FEMA Web site directing charitable contributions 
prominently listed Operation Blessing, a Pat Robertson kitty that, 
according to I.R.S. documents obtained by ABC News, has given 
more than half of its yearly cash donations to Mr. Robertson's 
Christian Broadcasting Network. If FEMA is that cavalier about 
charitable donations, imagine what it's doing with the $62 billion 
(so far) of taxpayers' money sent its way for Katrina relief.

Full article below:

New York Times

September 18, 2005

Message: I Care About the Black Folks 
By FRANK RICH

ONCE Toto parts the curtain, the Wizard of Oz can never be the 
wizard again. He is forever Professor Marvel, blowhard and 
snake-oil salesman. Hurricane Katrina, which is likely to endure 
in the American psyche as long as L. Frank Baum's mythic 
tornado, has similarly unmasked George W. Bush. 

The worst storm in our history proved perfect for exposing this 
president because in one big blast it illuminated all his failings: 
the rampant cronyism, the empty sloganeering of 
compassionate conservatism, the lack of concern for the 
underprivileged his mother condescended to at the Astrodome, 
the reckless lack of planning for all government operations 
except tax cuts, the use of spin and photo-ops to camouflage 
failure and to substitute for action.

In the chaos unleashed by Katrina, these plot strands coalesced 
into a single tragic epic played out in real time on television. The 
narrative is just too powerful to be undone now by the 
administration's desperate recycling of its greatest hits: a return 
Sunshine Boys tour by the surrogate empathizers Clinton and 
Bush I, another round of prayers at the Washington National 
Cathedral, another ludicrously overhyped prime-time address 
flecked with speechwriters' poetry and framed by a picturesque 
backdrop. Reruns never eclipse a riveting new show. 

Nor can the president's acceptance of responsibility for the 
disaster dislodge what came before. Mr. Bush didn't cough up 
his modified-limited mea culpa until he'd seen his whole 
administration flash before his eyes. His admission that some 
of the buck may stop with him (about a dime's worth, in Truman 
dollars) came two weeks after the levees burst and five years 
after he promised to usher in a new post-Clinton culture of 
responsibility. It came only after the plan to heap all the blame 
on the indeed blameworthy local Democrats failed to lift Mr. 
Bush's own record-low poll numbers. It came only after 
America's highest-rated TV news anchor, Brian Williams, started 
talking about Katrina the way Walter Cronkite once did about 
Vietnam. 

Taking responsibility, as opposed to paying lip service to doing 
so, is not in this administration's gene pool. It was particularly 
shameful that Laura Bush was sent among the storm's 
dispossessed to try to scapegoat the news media for her 
husband's ineptitude. When she complained of seeing a lot of 
the same footage over and over that isn't necessarily 
representative of what really happened, the first lady sounded 
just like Donald Rumsfeld shirking responsibility for the looting 
of Baghdad. The defense secretary, too, griped about seeing the 
same picture over and over on television (a looter with a vase) 
to hide the reality that the Pentagon had no plan to secure Iraq, a 
catastrophic failure being paid for in Iraqi and American blood to 
this day. 

This White House doesn't hate all pictures, of course. It loves 
those by Karl Rove's Imagineers, from the spectacularly lighted 
Statue of Liberty backdrop of Mr. Bush's first 9/11 anniversary 
speech to his Top Gun stunt to Thursday's laughably stagy 
stride across the lawn to his lectern in Jackson Square. 
(Message: I am a leader, not that vacationing slacker who first 
surveyed the hurricane damage from my presidential jet.) 

The most odious image-mongering, however, has been Mr. 
Bush's repeated deployment of African-Americans as dress 
extras to advertise his compassion. In 2000, the Republican 
convention filled the stage with break dancers and gospel 
singers, trying to dispel the memory of Mr. Bush's craven 
appearance at Bob Jones University when it forbade interracial 
dating. (The few blacks in the convention hall itself were 
positioned near celebrities so they'd show up in TV shots.) In 
2004, the Bush-Cheney campaign Web site had a page

[Biofuel] Engineers Without Borders