Re: [Biofuel] NaOH vs. KOH - Start to end
Hello Vaklin My personal opinion, not sure I'm right or not... + KOH dissolves in seconds in CH3OH Some of it does, but it takes about 10 minutes or more to dissolve what you'd use to make a batch. o The process has not faster than one with NaOH No, and also it's not slower. - KOH here is 3 times expensive than NaOH Are you sure? People have said such things but when they had a better look they usually managed to get it for about the same unit price (though you use more), including at least one person in East Europe. - You should use approximately 1.5 times (in grams) more KOH Why give only an approximate figure for how much catalyst to use? If it's not accurate it's useless, or worse. You need to use 1.4 times as much (1.4025), and you also have to adjust it for purity. For accurate information please see: More about lye http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye - Washing after KOH is more difficult. For me 4-5 washes vs. 3. I think most people have the opposite experience, easier washes. - KOH accepts very faster H2O from the air. From this comes more expensive holding. We used NaOH for years and switched to KOH more than two years ago, we've used a lot of it since then, we live in a humid place and we haven't seen any difference in absorption. - I have expected 100% esterification with KOH, but unfortunately I have got the same ester/glycerin ratio as with NaOH. Conversion never reaches 100% completion. So KOH doesn't cover my hopes. But you seem to have hoped for some odd things. All this I get from few 200 ml test batches from fresh rape oil. Keep going, good luck. Best Keith At 04:12 24.12.05, you wrote: Everyone seems to use more NaOh in the process. At this point I plan on using KOH even though I must use more. I can purchase 90% KOH for .725/lb and NaOH beads for 51/lb. The time savings and ease in mixing KOH is worth the extra cost. Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? I would be left with Pot Ash. Is there more value to glycerine than pot ash? I have used NaOH so far, but want to switch when my account is finalized. I have been reading the archives but 58,000 messages may take a while to get through. Currently designing my system to do 175 gallons of WVO per batch, 35 gallons Methanol ($2.89 gl). I have access to good supply of stainless cone bottom tank for all tanks. John Frey ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH vs. KOH - Start to end
Evergreen Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would... consider NaOH flakes over beads, usually cheaper... and dbl check that 90% pure KoH is good enough. 85% is good enough. Please see: More about lye http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye I'm a fan of the NaOH method because it leaves you with a byproduct that can be used in waste fuel furnaces. Why do you think the by-product using KOH can't be used in the same way? If your waste oil furnace will burn NaOH by-product it will certainly burn KOH by-product. There are some glycerine by-product sawdust logs burning in our woodstove right now. Previously we used sawdust logs made with NaOH by-peroduct, there's no difference. Best Keith At 04:12 24.12.05, you wrote: Everyone seems to use more NaOh in the process. At this point I plan on using KOH even though I must use more. I can purchase 90% KOH for .725/lb and NaOH beads for 51/lb. The time savings and ease in mixing KOH is worth the extra cost. Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? I would be left with Pot Ash. Is there more value to glycerine than pot ash? I have used NaOH so far, but want to switch when my account is finalized. I have been reading the archives but 58,000 messages may take a while to get through. Currently designing my system to do 175 gallons of WVO per batch, 35 gallons Methanol ($2.89 gl). I have access to good supply of stainless cone bottom tank for all tanks. John Frey ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Exhaust Chokes Human Arteries
A good source of these studies is HEI in Boston. http://www.healtheffects.org/pubs-research.htm#Particles%20and%20Diesel%20Engine%20Exhaust Sarath On 12/24/05, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And gasoline exhaust?And what of comparative studies with biodiesel exhaust, starting withB-100 and working down to B-20? Unfortunately, people like Sierra Club's Dismal Daniel Becker willeventually use the information to but one end - certainly not in thedirection of greater biodiesel use.Words like especially tough without comparative data is all too misleading.Todd Swearingen[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:http://health.yahoo.com/news/142160 Diesel Exhaust Chokes Human ArteriesDecember 20, 2005 08:41:13 PM PSTBy Ed EdelsonHealthDay ReporterTUESDAY, Dec. 20 (HealthDay News) -- Fumes belched from 18-wheelers and other diesel-powered vehicles and engines may be especially tough on the humancardiovascular system, new research reveals.In a carefully controlled study, the arteries of healthy volunteers exposed to diesel exhaust lost part of their ability to expand, while their blood becamemore likely to clot.The bad news about the cardiovascular harm that polluted air can inflict doesn'tend there. In a study reported in the Dec. 21 issue of the Journal of the American MedicalAssociation, New York University researchers found that mice exposed to air aspolluted as what floats around New York City showed that the effects can be particularly damaging, especially when coupled with a high-fat diet.The human study answers a question scientists have posed for years, one expertnoted.People have wondered for a long time whether diesels were harmful, and if so, how, said Dr. Russell V. Luepker, a professor of epidemiology at theUniversity of Minnesota, and a spokesman for the American Heart Association.This study is a building block. It shows that when you look hard for mechanisms, you find them.Luepker was not involved in the study, which was conducted by Scottishresearchers at the University of Edinburgh and published in the Dec. 20 issueof Circulation. The research relied on a specially built exposure chamber at the university'sCenter for Cardiovascular Science. In two one-hour sessions, 30 healthy youngmen were exposed either to filtered air or to exhaust from an idling diesel engine. The researchers then injected vasodilators -- drugs that cause thearteries to expand -- and took blood samples to measure clotting levels.Response to the vasodilators was reduced significantly after the diesel exposure, and levels of an enzyme that helps keep clots from forming werereduced, the researchers reported.The findings have potentially important implications for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, which is currently sponsoring a voluntary program to outfitdiesel-powered vehicles with devices that trap fine particles in exhaust fumes.Diesel exhaust consists of a complex mixture of particles and gases, said study author Dr. Nick Mills, a clinical research fellow at the Edinburghcenter. Before we can advocate the widespread use of particle traps in dieselengines, we need to verify that combustion-derived particles are the responsible component.A number of real-world studies have linked diesel fume exposure to heart attacksand other cardiovascular problems, Mills noted.However, observational studies cannot prove causality, he said. In human exposure studies, we can control for all potential confounding factors andassess the direct effect of particulates on the cardiovascular system. Ourfindings provide further support for the observational studies and a plausible mechanism to explain association between particles and acute cardiovascularevents.It's not clear whether the findings apply to gasoline-powered engines, Millssaid, because their emissions are very different from those of diesel-powered engines. In particular, diesel exhaust generates 100 times more pollutantparticles, he said.Because the study was so carefully controlled, Luepker labeled the resultsinteresting initial data. But he added that the controlled study in the laboratory is not totally dissimilar to what people out on the street can beexposed to.If this study were done in mice, I would say, 'very interesting,' Luepkersaid. A study done in healthy humans gets my attention more. In the mouse study from JAMA, the scientists found that mice breathing pollutedair developed far more plaque than those breathing filtered air. Rodents thatwere exposed to polluted air and a high-fat diet had arteries that were 41.5percent obstructed with plaque, while the mice exposed to a high-fat diet andfiltered air only experienced 26.2 percent blockage in their arteries.The mice on normal diets also revealed differences in plaque levels, with the mice exposed to polluted air showing 19.2 percent blockage while those exposedto filtered air showing only 13.2 percent blockage. All the mice weregenetically prone to develop heart disease. ___Biofuel
[Biofuel] Feliz Navidad, Merry Christmas
Amigos, Friends Mis mejores deseos para que Uds. tengan una muy Feliz Navidad. Que el Niño Jesus los bendiga y los haga muy felices, y sanos, y alegres y que tengan mucho y buen trabajo, con toda su familia. Hasta siempre. Marcelino Miranda QUIMICA NOVA S.A. Argentina ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feliz Navidad, Merry Christmas
Quimica Nova SA wrote: Amigos, Friends Mis mejores deseos para que Uds. tengan una muy Feliz Navidad. Que el Niño Jesus los bendiga y los haga muy felices, y sanos, y alegres y que tengan mucho y buen trabajo, con toda su familia. Hasta siempre. Gracias, senor! May your life be filled with grace, peace, health and happiness in the coming year! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feliz Navidad, Merry Christmas
Ba-a-h-h-h! Humbug!!! Humbug I tell you! Now back to work every last one of you. Those Mal-Wart shelves have to be refilled before midnight! Hot porridge be damned!! Back to work I say! Humbug!!! robert luis rabello wrote: Quimica Nova SA wrote: Amigos, Friends Mis mejores deseos para que Uds. tengan una muy Feliz Navidad. Que el Niño Jesus los bendiga y los haga muy felices, y sanos, y alegres y que tengan mucho y buen trabajo, con toda su familia. Hasta siempre. Gracias, senor! May your life be filled with grace, peace, health and happiness in the coming year! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feliz Navidad, Merry Christmas
Appal Energy wrote: Ba-a-h-h-h! Humbug!!! Humbug I tell you! Now back to work every last one of you. Those Mal-Wart shelves have to be refilled before midnight! Hot porridge be damned!! Back to work I say! Truly, there is NO rest for the wicked! : - ) robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] free inline fuel heater?
I just purchased some dipstick engine heaters. But I live in europe and they came from america, so they are 120V. Now, if I plug them in to the 220V plugs, I know that they will give twice the heat. What I want to know is that does the heat dissipate off these things fast enough for it not to burn. And it should have some kind of overheat prevention mechanism could this also work with 220V. Does anybody have any experience Thank you in advance. Teoman Mery Chirstmas to all who celebrate it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Guag Meister Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 4:45 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] free inline fuel heater? Hi Rob ; Joe, have you ever tried to take the works from a Mr coffee machine and hook them up to DC? Probably not enough power to heat quickly. Resistance = Voltage squared/power. Assuming you are discussing a 120V appliance, and if we simplify and say the resistance is constant with changing temperature, we have : Resistance = 120 * 120 / 850 = 17 ohms. Connected to 12V this would produce 8.5 watts of heating. I think too small to heat fuel effectively. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] free inline fuel heater?
Don't guess I'd try running a 120V heating element on 220V, but if there was a way to use two at a time, I'd wire both in series, and distribute the voltage between the two... doug swanson Teoman Naskali wrote: I just purchased some dipstick engine heaters. But I live in europe and they came from america, so they are 120V. Now, if I plug them in to the 220V plugs, I know that they will give twice the heat. What I want to know is that does the heat dissipate off these things fast enough for it not to burn. And it should have some kind of overheat prevention mechanism could this also work with 220V. Does anybody have any experience Thank you in advance. Teoman Mery Chirstmas to all who celebrate it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Guag Meister Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 4:45 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] free inline fuel heater? Hi Rob ; Joe, have you ever tried to take the works from a Mr coffee machine and hook them up to DC? Probably not enough power to heat quickly. Resistance = Voltage squared/power. Assuming you are discussing a 120V appliance, and if we simplify and say the resistance is constant with changing temperature, we have : Resistance = 120 * 120 / 850 = 17 ohms. Connected to 12V this would produce 8.5 watts of heating. I think too small to heat fuel effectively. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution'
Well I am not against racing, but my point is if these researchers look at the racing starting from F1 down to Nascar the picture is not rosy. As you have written in your e-mail F1 team burns a lot (200.000lt per year per team). So if you add them all its more than a drop in the bucket. Let's hope that the technology developped in those races reflects to the daily cars. If you consider that bikes are 4 strokes, fuel injected and have catalytic converters, they can be a good solution to help with clogging cities and air pollution. I believe the better solution in the big cities would be public transportation, and electric vehicles. Lets hope they would also research the effect of using biofuel in busses as public transportation. Regards Burak Burak_l wrote: And finally I hope they do not research how much is waisted in car races like formula-1, Lemans endurance etc... Those machines are loud and very very thirsty. Probabily one of them during 1 race pollutes more than a typical rider can manage whole year. With regard to racing, it isn't that black and white. First, you seem to be conflating wasting resources (eg burning lots of fuel) with the amount of pollution produced. They aren't necessarily the same thing. You can burn 10 liters dirtily or you can burn 100 liters cleanly - they are different issues. Second, even if a single team in a single race uses more fuel or pollutes more that a single private individual in an entire year, you're still comparing (for F1) 10 teams (2 cars each) by 19 races to millions of riders/drivers every day over the course of a year. You're talking about a drop in the bucket. On the plus side, racing drives innovation. Consider the FSI engine technology Audi developed for the their R8 LMP (LeMans Prototype) car. Now you can buy lean burning FSI powered cars at Audi dealers. Likewise, the brand new Audi R10 LMP has a V12 TDI powerplant that gets over a 100 hp per liter. That kind of performance out of reliable diesel is amazing. An I expect those advances in diesel technology will show up in VW and Audi dealerships within 5 or 6 years. Racing also has the ability to prove to people that renewables aren't just some crunchy granola lefty tree-hugger pipedream. Demonstrating that renewables can perform is critical in the PR battle with the oil lobby. For example, the IndyRacingLeague - and thus by default, the Indy500 - is switching from methanol to renewable ethanol for the 2007 season. That's a huge win for renewables. As mentioned above, the Audi factory team is running a diesel powered LMP in ALMS this year, although I suspect Audi will be using petrodiesel, at least to start. However, that won't be the only diesel in ALMS this season - D1 Oils plc is sponsoring a biodiesel powered Lola LMP that will run b5, b20 and b50 blends. But yes, on the negative side, racing does waste resources. According to formula1.com, During a typical season a Formula One team will use over 200,000 litres of fuel for testing and racing. That's a lotta fuel. And don't get me started about the the fact that NASCAR still uses leaded gasoline. Still, I think you're throwing the baby out with the bath water and having an emotional reaction to a study you don't like. Small displacement motorcycles don't burn cleanly and pollute a lot. Acknowledge that fact and move on with your life. Don't try to justify it by pointing fingers at someone else. That's just childish. jh ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution'
Actually, It's not the racing vehicles themselves that are so polluting as it is the balance of the industry. Think about all the billions of miles logged by race fans to go see their superheros every race weekend or bubblegum card signing. Think about all the millions of metric tons of cheap plastic crap, u-h-h-h-e-m-m-m, memorabilia, that is cranked out for consumers to adorn their environs with. Think about all the energy used to mine and manufacture all that crap. Then think about all the energy used to transport it. Then think about all the energy consumed to go purchase it or is used in all the other supportive sectors of that industry. Tired of thinking yet? The energy equation goes far beyond how many gallons get churned up by a bevy of bubbas every weekend. So you see, supporting racing supports fossil fuel consumption, which in turn increases the United States #1 export - cash in the form of petrol dollars. And many of those petrol-dollars help fund endeavors that are counter to the best interests of the US. All that makes racing a rather unpatriotic and un-American endeavor. Pursuing such folly in turn makes a race fan candidate for NSA monitoring and perhaps eventual internment as an enemy combatant, thereby having no recourse, legal or otherwise, but to rot in the musty dungeons of the super riche until one's flesh rots off while they enjoy daily tea and crumpets on the ninth fairway. No better reason not to wear a baseball cap with a number on it if you ask me. Todd Swearingen Happy Humbug... :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I am not against racing, but my point is if these researchers look at the racing starting from F1 down to Nascar the picture is not rosy. As you have written in your e-mail F1 team burns a lot (200.000lt per year per team). So if you add them all its more than a drop in the bucket. Let's hope that the technology developped in those races reflects to the daily cars. If you consider that bikes are 4 strokes, fuel injected and have catalytic converters, they can be a good solution to help with clogging cities and air pollution. I believe the better solution in the big cities would be public transportation, and electric vehicles. Lets hope they would also research the effect of using biofuel in busses as public transportation. Regards Burak Burak_l wrote: And finally I hope they do not research how much is waisted in car races like formula-1, Lemans endurance etc... Those machines are loud and very very thirsty. Probabily one of them during 1 race pollutes more than a typical rider can manage whole year. With regard to racing, it isn't that black and white. First, you seem to be conflating wasting resources (eg burning lots of fuel) with the amount of pollution produced. They aren't necessarily the same thing. You can burn 10 liters dirtily or you can burn 100 liters cleanly - they are different issues. Second, even if a single team in a single race uses more fuel or pollutes more that a single private individual in an entire year, you're still comparing (for F1) 10 teams (2 cars each) by 19 races to millions of riders/drivers every day over the course of a year. You're talking about a drop in the bucket. On the plus side, racing drives innovation. Consider the FSI engine technology Audi developed for the their R8 LMP (LeMans Prototype) car. Now you can buy lean burning FSI powered cars at Audi dealers. Likewise, the brand new Audi R10 LMP has a V12 TDI powerplant that gets over a 100 hp per liter. That kind of performance out of reliable diesel is amazing. An I expect those advances in diesel technology will show up in VW and Audi dealerships within 5 or 6 years. Racing also has the ability to prove to people that renewables aren't just some crunchy granola lefty tree-hugger pipedream. Demonstrating that renewables can perform is critical in the PR battle with the oil lobby. For example, the IndyRacingLeague - and thus by default, the Indy500 - is switching from methanol to renewable ethanol for the 2007 season. That's a huge win for renewables. As mentioned above, the Audi factory team is running a diesel powered LMP in ALMS this year, although I suspect Audi will be using petrodiesel, at least to start. However, that won't be the only diesel in ALMS this season - D1 Oils plc is sponsoring a biodiesel powered Lola LMP that will run b5, b20 and b50 blends. But yes, on the negative side, racing does waste resources. According to formula1.com, During a typical season a Formula One team will use over 200,000 litres of fuel for testing and racing. That's a lotta fuel. And don't get me started about the the fact that NASCAR still uses leaded gasoline. Still, I think you're throwing the baby out with the bath water and having an emotional reaction to a study you don't like. Small displacement motorcycles don't burn cleanly and pollute a lot. Acknowledge that fact and move on with your life. Don't try to
Re: [Biofuel] free inline fuel heater?
Yeah, run two of them in series. These are pretty dumb heaters, and I doubt they have any overheat protection. Maybe a thermal fuse if you're lucky. Running them at four times the rated power might get them too hot, even if they were submerged in liquid. They won't care about the 50Hz vs 60Hz though. On 12/24/05, doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't guess I'd try running a 120V heating element on 220V, but if there was a way to use two at a time, I'd wire both in series, and distribute the voltage between the two... doug swanson Teoman Naskali wrote: I just purchased some dipstick engine heaters. But I live in europe and they came from america, so they are 120V. Now, if I plug them in to the 220V plugs, I know that they will give twice the heat. What I want to know is that does the heat dissipate off these things fast enough for it not to burn. And it should have some kind of overheat prevention mechanism could this also work with 220V. Does anybody have any experience Thank you in advance. Teoman Mery Chirstmas to all who celebrate it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Guag Meister Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 4:45 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] free inline fuel heater? Hi Rob ; Joe, have you ever tried to take the works from a Mr coffee machine and hook them up to DC? Probably not enough power to heat quickly. Resistance = Voltage squared/power. Assuming you are discussing a 120V appliance, and if we simplify and say the resistance is constant with changing temperature, we have : Resistance = 120 * 120 / 850 = 17 ohms. Connected to 12V this would produce 8.5 watts of heating. I think too small to heat fuel effectively. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH vs. KOH - Start to end
Hi! At 18:29 24.12.05, you wrote: Hello Vaklin My personal opinion, not sure I'm right or not... + KOH dissolves in seconds in CH3OH Some of it does, but it takes about 10 minutes or more to dissolve what you'd use to make a batch. o The process has not faster than one with NaOH No, and also it's not slower. - KOH here is 3 times expensive than NaOH Are you sure? People have said such things but when they had a better look they usually managed to get it for about the same unit price (though you use more), including at least one person in East Europe. Will give prices in BGN (native currency $1.64 = 1BGN) NaOH 0.70 BGN without VAT; KOH 2.50 BGN without VAT. Have found the place where can buy for approx 1.50 BGN, but should drive 300km. - You should use approximately 1.5 times (in grams) more KOH Why give only an approximate figure for how much catalyst to use? If it's not accurate it's useless, or worse. You need to use 1.4 times as much (1.4025), and you also have to adjust it for purity. For accurate information please see: More about lye http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye I have wrote approximately. Exactly the value is as you said. For 250 ml fresh rape oil I have used 2.5g KOH or 1.78 gram NaOH. With these values I have got excellent esterification in 1 hour and 30 minutes. Every time I'm awaiting 30 minutes more. Temperature is constant, 58 degrees Celsius. - Washing after KOH is more difficult. For me 4-5 washes vs. 3. I think most people have the opposite experience, easier washes. Maybe .. Probably they use better water than mine from kitchen pipe. - KOH accepts very faster H2O from the air. From this comes more expensive holding. We used NaOH for years and switched to KOH more than two years ago, we've used a lot of it since then, we live in a humid place and we haven't seen any difference in absorption. And you know every day real water contents? I'm sure KOH is useable too... - I have expected 100% esterification with KOH, but unfortunately I have got the same ester/glycerin ratio as with NaOH. Conversion never reaches 100% completion. I know, but have read some documents where in closed reactor with 70 degrees Celsius and KOH they has reached 100%. So KOH doesn't cover my hopes. But you seem to have hoped for some odd things. No, just better self value for the product. All this I get from few 200 ml test batches from fresh rape oil. Keep going, good luck. Best Keith Thank you. At 04:12 24.12.05, you wrote: Everyone seems to use more NaOh in the process. At this point I plan on using KOH even though I must use more. I can purchase 90% KOH for .725/lb and NaOH beads for 51/lb. The time savings and ease in mixing KOH is worth the extra cost. Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? I would be left with Pot Ash. Is there more value to glycerine than pot ash? I have used NaOH so far, but want to switch when my account is finalized. I have been reading the archives but 58,000 messages may take a while to get through. Currently designing my system to do 175 gallons of WVO per batch, 35 gallons Methanol ($2.89 gl). I have access to good supply of stainless cone bottom tank for all tanks. John Frey ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23.12.2005 ã. Vaklin Hristov CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] free inline fuel heater?
Not twice the heat! More like 3.36 fold increase. Rearrange the formulas describing Ohm's Law and you will see that for a given load (dipstick heater) increasing the voltage from 120v to 220v will increase the power dissipation (heat given off) as follows: (220/120)^2 = 3.361... The simple explanation is that power is proportional to both current and voltage, both of which are increased when voltage is increased. I would guess that running at 220v will decrease heater life span, perhaps dramatically. Hope this helps. Good luck. Bob (West Linn) - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] free inline fuel heater? I just purchased some dipstick engine heaters. But I live in europe and they came from america, so they are 120V. Now, if I plug them in to the 220V plugs, I know that they will give twice the heat. What I want to know is that does the heat dissipate off these things fast enough for it not to burn. And it should have some kind of overheat prevention mechanism could this also work with 220V. Does anybody have any experience Thank you in advance. Teoman Mery Chirstmas to all who celebrate it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Guag Meister Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 4:45 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] free inline fuel heater? Hi Rob ; Joe, have you ever tried to take the works from a Mr coffee machine and hook them up to DC? Probably not enough power to heat quickly. Resistance = Voltage squared/power. Assuming you are discussing a 120V appliance, and if we simplify and say the resistance is constant with changing temperature, we have : Resistance = 120 * 120 / 850 = 17 ohms. Connected to 12V this would produce 8.5 watts of heating. I think too small to heat fuel effectively. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution'
Lol, Todd, I think you're projecting everything that's wrong w/ american mass commercialism onto one uhm...sport? I'm not a race fan, don't get me wrong, and I see your point regarding the infinite paradox of american government, but I think quite quickly we could pass the same judgement on probably 90% of all products offered towards the 3-35 age bracket. I mean, soccer is great, but lots of very nice soccer balls are made by some very unfortunate children in Nigeria.Americans love clothes, too bad we don't love the Bangladeshi folks who make them: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8243331/Dogs are great, but apparently we like skinning them for profit: http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/wildlife_news/eu_considers_comprehensive_ban_on_the_cat_and_dog_fur_trade.htmlAnd don't even get me started on all the illegal things we do w/ our telecommunications bounty that would possibly put us in line for a wiretap (online poker, anyone?), but simply enough this message will probably be quickly overviewed by echelon, predator, or carnive before you even read it. DUN DUN DUNN http://compnetworking.about.com/od/internetaccessbestuses/l/aa120400a.htmGood point though. :) On 12/24/05, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually,It's not the racing vehicles themselves that are so polluting as it isthe balance of the industry.Think about all the billions of miles logged by race fans to go seetheir superheros every race weekend or bubblegum card signing. Think about all the millions of metric tons of cheap plastic crap,u-h-h-h-e-m-m-m, memorabilia, that is cranked out for consumers toadorn their environs with. Think about all the energy used to mine and manufacture all that crap. Then think about all the energy used totransport it. Then think about all the energy consumed to go purchase itor is used in all the other supportive sectors of that industry.Tired of thinking yet? The energy equation goes far beyond how many gallons get churned up by a bevy of bubbas every weekend.So you see, supporting racing supports fossil fuel consumption, which inturn increases the United States #1 export - cash in the form of petroldollars. And many of those petrol-dollars help fund endeavors that are counter to the best interests of the US.All that makes racing a rather unpatriotic and un-American endeavor.Pursuing such folly in turn makes a race fan candidate for NSAmonitoring and perhaps eventual internment as an enemy combatant, thereby having no recourse, legal or otherwise, but to rot in the mustydungeons of the super riche until one's flesh rots off while they enjoydaily tea and crumpets on the ninth fairway.No better reason not to wear a baseball cap with a number on it if you ask me.Todd SwearingenHappy Humbug... :-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well I am not against racing, but my point is if these researchers look at the racing starting from F1 down to Nascar the picture is not rosy.As you have written in your e-mail F1 team burns a lot (200.000lt per yearper team).So if you add them all its more than a drop in the bucket. Let's hope that the technology developped in those races reflects to thedaily cars.If you consider that bikes are 4 strokes, fuel injected and have catalyticconverters, they can be a good solution to help with clogging cities and air pollution.I believe the better solution in the big cities would be publictransportation, and electric vehicles.Lets hope they would also researchthe effect of using biofuel in busses as public transportation. RegardsBurakBurak_l wrote:And finally I hope they do not research how much is waisted in car races like formula-1, Lemans endurance etc...Those machines are loud and very very thirsty.Probabily one of themduring1 race pollutes more than a typical rider can manage whole year.With regard to racing, it isn't that black and white.First, you seem to be conflating wasting resources (eg burning lots of fuel) with the amount of pollution produced. They aren't necessarily thesame thing. You can burn 10 liters dirtily or you can burn 100 literscleanly - they are different issues. Second, even if a single team in a single race uses more fuel orpollutes more that a single private individual in an entire year, you'restill comparing (for F1) 10 teams (2 cars each) by 19 races to millions of riders/drivers every day over the course of a year. You're talkingabout a drop in the bucket.On the plus side, racing drives innovation. Consider the FSI enginetechnology Audi developed for the their R8 LMP (LeMans Prototype) car. Now you can buy lean burning FSI powered cars at Audi dealers.Likewise, the brand new Audi R10 LMP has a V12 TDI powerplant that getsover a 100 hp per liter. That kind of performance out of reliable diesel is amazing. An I expect those advances in diesel technology will show upin VW and Audi dealerships within 5 or 6 years.Racing also has the ability to prove to people that renewables aren't just some crunchy granola lefty tree-hugger pipedream. Demonstratingthat renewables can
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH vs. KOH - Start to end
Hi! Difference is only in total cost of the product. I'll try to save every cent because the price of biodiesel produced here is very close to bulk price of dynodiesel. I mean biodiesel produced from fresh not refined vegetable oils. So, my decision is NaOH. At 19:06 24.12.05, you wrote: John, Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? KOH makes nothing more complicated. Quite the opposite. See other post on this thread. Todd Swearingen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone seems to use more NaOh in the process. At this point I plan on using KOH even though I must use more. I can purchase 90% KOH for .725/lb and NaOH beads for 51/lb. The time savings and ease in mixing KOH is worth the extra cost. Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? I would be left with Pot Ash. Is there more value to glycerine than pot ash? I have used NaOH so far, but want to switch when my account is finalized. I have been reading the archives but 58,000 messages may take a while to get through. Currently designing my system to do 175 gallons of WVO per batch, 35 gallons Methanol ($2.89 gl). I have access to good supply of stainless cone bottom tank for all tanks. John Frey ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23.12.2005 ã. Vaklin Hristov CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution'
Lol, Todd, I think you're projecting everything that's wrong w/ american mass commercialism onto one uhm...sport? Actually? I'm just projecting a lot of what's wrong with American/western mass commercialism in general - the avarice, the excess and the galaxial wide chasm between the have-nots who provide for the haves. And I am serious about petrol-dollars being the US' #1 export and how that process has come to pervert life in general on a global scale. Edward Abbey has it right. Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. Game over! at this rate. Over for everyone. Todd Swearingen Evergreen Solutions wrote: Lol, Todd, I think you're projecting everything that's wrong w/ american mass commercialism onto one uhm...sport? I'm not a race fan, don't get me wrong, and I see your point regarding the infinite paradox of american government, but I think quite quickly we could pass the same judgement on probably 90% of all products offered towards the 3-35 age bracket. I mean, soccer is great, but lots of very nice soccer balls are made by some very unfortunate children in Nigeria. Americans love clothes, too bad we don't love the Bangladeshi folks who make them: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8243331/ Dogs are great, but apparently we like skinning them for profit: http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/wildlife_news/eu_considers_comprehensive_ban_on_the_cat_and_dog_fur_trade.html And don't even get me started on all the illegal things we do w/ our telecommunications bounty that would possibly put us in line for a wiretap (online poker, anyone?), but simply enough this message will probably be quickly overviewed by echelon, predator, or carnive before you even read it. DUN DUN DUNN http://compnetworking.about.com/od/internetaccessbestuses/l/aa120400a.htm Good point though. :) On 12/24/05, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, It's not the racing vehicles themselves that are so polluting as it is the balance of the industry. Think about all the billions of miles logged by race fans to go see their superheros every race weekend or bubblegum card signing. Think about all the millions of metric tons of cheap plastic crap, u-h-h-h-e-m-m-m, memorabilia, that is cranked out for consumers to adorn their environs with. Think about all the energy used to mine and manufacture all that crap. Then think about all the energy used to transport it. Then think about all the energy consumed to go purchase it or is used in all the other supportive sectors of that industry. Tired of thinking yet? The energy equation goes far beyond how many gallons get churned up by a bevy of bubbas every weekend. So you see, supporting racing supports fossil fuel consumption, which in turn increases the United States #1 export - cash in the form of petrol dollars. And many of those petrol-dollars help fund endeavors that are counter to the best interests of the US. All that makes racing a rather unpatriotic and un-American endeavor. Pursuing such folly in turn makes a race fan candidate for NSA monitoring and perhaps eventual internment as an enemy combatant, thereby having no recourse, legal or otherwise, but to rot in the musty dungeons of the super riche until one's flesh rots off while they enjoy daily tea and crumpets on the ninth fairway. No better reason not to wear a baseball cap with a number on it if you ask me. Todd Swearingen Happy Humbug... :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I am not against racing, but my point is if these researchers look at the racing starting from F1 down to Nascar the picture is not rosy. As you have written in your e-mail F1 team burns a lot (200.000lt per year per team). So if you add them all its more than a drop in the bucket. Let's hope that the technology developped in those races reflects to the daily cars. If you consider that bikes are 4 strokes, fuel injected and have catalytic converters, they can be a good solution to help with clogging cities and air pollution. I believe the better solution in the big cities would be public transportation, and electric vehicles. Lets hope they would also research the effect of using biofuel in busses as public transportation. Regards Burak Burak_l wrote: And finally I hope they do not research how much is waisted in car races like formula-1, Lemans endurance etc... Those machines are loud and very very thirsty. Probabily one of them during 1 race pollutes more than a typical rider can manage whole year. With regard to
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH vs. KOH - Start to end
You've still got to find end uses for your co-/waste-products. Sodium generates an environmental cost. Potassium generates a monetary and environmental savings. You might care to see how much the savings in fertilizer offsets the higher cost of the catalyst before you make a final decision. Todd Swearingen Vaklin Hristov wrote: Hi! Difference is only in total cost of the product. I'll try to save every cent because the price of biodiesel produced here is very close to bulk price of dynodiesel. I mean biodiesel produced from fresh not refined vegetable oils. So, my decision is NaOH. At 19:06 24.12.05, you wrote: John, Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? KOH makes nothing more complicated. Quite the opposite. See other post on this thread. Todd Swearingen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone seems to use more NaOh in the process. At this point I plan on using KOH even though I must use more. I can purchase 90% KOH for .725/lb and NaOH beads for 51/lb. The time savings and ease in mixing KOH is worth the extra cost. Later in the entire process am I missing something that would make using KOH more complicated? I would be left with Pot Ash. Is there more value to glycerine than pot ash? I have used NaOH so far, but want to switch when my account is finalized. I have been reading the archives but 58,000 messages may take a while to get through. Currently designing my system to do 175 gallons of WVO per batch, 35 gallons Methanol ($2.89 gl). I have access to good supply of stainless cone bottom tank for all tanks. John Frey ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23.12.2005 ã. Vaklin Hristov CAR DIAGNOSE Ltd. P.O. Box 79 3320 Kozloduy Bulgaria ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
