Re: [Biofuel] Modification of cars to use biodiesel and insurance
I have never heard of a biodiesel governing board - who would qualify you? Here in the states we have the ASE. Philip Clark wrote: Hi TIM If you feel well qualified as a marine engineer, what would it take for you to become a qualified and certified bio diesel installer? Is there anyone on this earth more qualified then you to make that determination? I think not, but that's a matter of philosophy! Where is Leicestershire anyway? PHILIP CLARK (USA) On 12/31/05, Tim Hadland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello from leicestershire! I have just discussed the fact i am going to run my car on bio diesel with my insurance company. I have used Norwich union, and the pay as you drive option (i am in the merchant navy and dont use my car for 4 month periods and i am still a young driver) I wish ships used biodiesel, they use residual or heavy fuel oil - solid at room temperature. Nasty stuff, which gets treated through heating and settling, heating and purification - centrifuging out water and solids, and filtering at various stages before being burnt in the engine. Already and ideal set-up for using biodiesel. Would make work feel more healthy with reduced nasty fumes and probably much safer. Anyway back to insurance. I was told if i were to have any mod done to my fuel system such as a heated fuel filter it would have to be installed by a qualified and certified bio diesel installer !? None in Leicestershire, in fact i dont know of anyone in the midlands. I feel well qualified as a marine engineer. Has anyone else had insurance probs with modifications? cheers, and happy new year for tmw. TIM HADLAND ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Modification of cars to use biodiesel and insurance
Hi, I'm quite surprised that running biodiesel is an issue for your insurance company, rather than just a warranty issue for the car manufacturer (if it's a relatively new car), although I suppose a naysayer legal department might say What? Fuel not provided by a big oil company? The car's bound to burst into flames and kill everyone within 100 yards/metres! There's no way we'll insure it!. I've got a few thoughts: 1. It might help if the biodiesel you use conforms to the European standard for biodiesel EN-14214. If it doesn't you can get it tested by a company like Intertek. 2. You probably wouldn't need a heated fuel filter for biodiesel most of the time in the UK (unless you live up a mountain or something), but there are a couple of places which specialise in car conversions for using SVO (straight vegetable oil): http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/ http://www.vegburner.co.uk/ http://www.bio-power.co.uk/ 3. If you can't get anyone to insure your car if it's running biodiesel, then I suggest getting in contact with the AA or the RAC and asking them to help out. If this still doesn't work, then try raising it as an issue which is hindering national CO2 emission reduction by going to Friends of the Earth, The Carbon Trust and the Department of the Environment. I think the Independent and Guardian newspapers would also be interested. CO2 reduction is a big story in the UK and this is a perfect example of something slowing it down. Best wishes, Sam On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:44:04 +0100, Tim Hadland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello from leicestershire! I have just discussed the fact i am going to run my car on bio diesel with my insurance company. I have used Norwich union, and the pay as you drive option (i am in the merchant navy and dont use my car for 4 month periods and i am still a young driver) I wish ships used biodiesel, they use residual or heavy fuel oil - solid at room temperature. Nasty stuff, which gets treated through heating and settling, heating and purification - centrifuging out water and solids, and filtering at various stages before being burnt in the engine. Already and ideal set-up for using biodiesel. Would make work feel more healthy with reduced nasty fumes and probably much safer. Anyway back to insurance. I was told if i were to have any mod done to my fuel system such as a heated fuel filter it would have to be installed by a qualified and certified bio diesel installer !? None in Leicestershire, in fact i dont know of anyone in the midlands. I feel well qualified as a marine engineer. Has anyone else had insurance probs with modifications? cheers, and happy new year for tmw. TIM HADLAND ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Sam Critchley [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** A2B - the new location-based search engine. See http://www.a2b.cc for details. Great for GPSers! *** ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel Testing excessive methanol
I just tested a 60 Liter batch and have a few questions; below is what I have done with the results and further below are my questions, The biodiesel used in the tests below was unwashed - glycerin layer removed. 1.) Using the test method noted on JtF ( Jan Warnqvist - Methanol test) as prescribed 225 ml Methanol combined with 25 ml of the biodiesel. Results: Biodiesel was fully soluble and formed a clear bright phase no contaminants or other phases noted. Results after 24 hours - No change. 2) Using a MODIFIED JtF method, (combining 4.90875 grams lab grade KOH and 100 ml Methanol (Potassium Methoxil) with 1 Liter of the biodiesel) - INSTEAD I added 400ml methanol and 4.90875 grams KOH ( Potassium Methoxil ) (both lab grade near absolute) to 1 Liter of the Biodiesel. I then heated to 120 deg F and mixed for one hour. Results: after 24 hours there was a nice amber layer from the bottom of the glass jar up to the last say 1/2 inch where a very very slightly amber layer resided to the top. there was nothing at the bottom at all. 3) Wash test JtF, In a glass jar I shook 1/2 Bio and 1/2 water at room temp till mixed into one phase. Results: within 1 minute the water and Bio separated and the water was quite white. Wash #2 same time of separation water clearer this time. Wash # 3 same as #2. Wash # 4 water was not drinking quality but PH is close to seven. O.K why did I increase the Methanol in test #2) above? I am not sure except to see what it would do, but from what I read it would not harm so I did. My Question: Can anyone tell me what the strange clear amber layer on top of the other clear amber layer may be? Could this be the FFA content per L? Thanks in advance, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Testing excessive methanol
I ran some additional tests on the two layers (see test # 2 below) Top Layer mixed with water: Results Soapy and white no separation (yet) (very Soapy- Sudsy) Bottom Layer mixed with water: Results Water turns white but a nice clear amber layer of biofuel on top. Any one? JJJN wrote: I just tested a 60 Liter batch and have a few questions; below is what I have done with the results and further below are my questions, The biodiesel used in the tests below was unwashed - glycerin layer removed. 1.) Using the test method noted on JtF ( Jan Warnqvist - Methanol test) as prescribed 225 ml Methanol combined with 25 ml of the biodiesel. Results: Biodiesel was fully soluble and formed a clear bright phase no contaminants or other phases noted. Results after 24 hours - No change. 2) Using a MODIFIED JtF method, (combining 4.90875 grams lab grade KOH and 100 ml Methanol (Potassium Methoxil) with 1 Liter of the biodiesel) - INSTEAD I added 400ml methanol and 4.90875 grams KOH ( Potassium Methoxil ) (both lab grade near absolute) to 1 Liter of the Biodiesel. I then heated to 120 deg F and mixed for one hour. Results: after 24 hours there was a nice amber layer from the bottom of the glass jar up to the last say 1/2 inch where a very very slightly amber layer resided to the top. there was nothing at the bottom at all. 3) Wash test JtF, In a glass jar I shook 1/2 Bio and 1/2 water at room temp till mixed into one phase. Results: within 1 minute the water and Bio separated and the water was quite white. Wash #2 same time of separation water clearer this time. Wash # 3 same as #2. Wash # 4 water was not drinking quality but PH is close to seven. O.K why did I increase the Methanol in test #2) above? I am not sure except to see what it would do, but from what I read it would not harm so I did. My Question: Can anyone tell me what the strange clear amber layer on top of the other clear amber layer may be? Could this be the FFA content per L? Thanks in advance, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HAPPY 2006 AND FRUITFUL NEW YEAR
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote: Hi Pannirselvam, to Keith, and list, many thanks for all great work, and good health, and harmoney to all on list and best of luck to make '06 a green and re-newable new year, dD -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Qu=EDmica - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de P=F3s Gradua=E7=E3o em Engenharia Qu=EDmica - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universit=E1rio CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 Capim Macio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210 32171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular 84 88145083 --=_Part_197_17007032.1136076283115 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline divfont face=3DArial size=3D2Dear Biofuel list=B4s members, my rese= arch team members, and my beloved Biofuel list leader KEithbr= /font/div div /div divfont face=3DArial size=3D2It is my deepest will and pleasurenbs= p; that everyone of you enjoy a=20 happy and fruitful new year 2006, seeing biomass based rural ec= o friendly technology taking=20 off to playing relevant role in today and tomorrow=B4s energy=20 shares bringing light and prosperity to the the darken ar= ea of the rural world.Let us all join for hand to make the colaborative wor= k for the same.br/font/div div /div divfont face=3DArial size=3D2Kindest regards./font/divPannirsel= vambr clear=3Dallbr-- br Pagandai V PannirselvambrUniversidade Fe= deral do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNbrDepartamento de Engenharia Qu=EDmica= - DEQ brCentro de Tecnologia - CTbrPrograma de P=F3s Gradua=E7=E3o em Engenha= ria Qu=EDmica - PPGEQbrGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECb= rbrAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universit=E1riobrCEP 59.072-970 ,= Natal/RN - Brasil brbrResidence :brAv Odilon gome de lima, 2951,br n= bsp; Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102br Capim MaciobrEP 59.078-40= 0 , Natal/RN - BrasilbrbrTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210br= nb= sp;= 32171557 brTelefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 br = residencia 32171557brbr = Cellular = 84 88145083 --=_Part_197_17007032.1136076283115-- --===0724826927== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --===0724826927==-- - Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] removing water from WVO
I am just getting started making BD. I have had some trouble getting all the water removed from the WVO. Is it a must to heat the oil if so how hot, how long? Will it settle out on its own if just sits if so how long do I need to let it settle? Any info will be appreciated. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs
Some reassurance please. After months of single stage manufacture and reactor modifications I was about to jump into the Foolproof method. But now Bob in a, I assume well equiped Lab can't get the process to work completely. What Gives? How much chance do I have in a back yard with home made and jerry rigged equipment. Alex Kac also states that mixing methanol and sulphuric acid together is can cause serious problems. Once again what gives? Cheers Ian - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs Appal Energy wrote: Bob, Why not drain the small amount of glycerol that settles out of an esterification? The majority of the sulfuric will come out with it. That lessens the amount of base catalyst needed for the follow-up transesterification. again, this is just what I observed: no glycerin settled out after the acid stage. Waiting 8 hours realistically means another day. Additionally, if I do wait and do get some glycerin to settle out with my conditions, wouldn't you think that methanol also would be part of the cocktail, thence affecting the equilibrium? Fewer chemicals in, fewer problems out. Todd Swearingen bob allen wrote: acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs In my lab I have had little success with the acid/base method for biodiesel production. When my students and I tried to duplicate the foolproof method http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html we invariably obtained incomplete reactions, plus the longer preparation time was less attractive. The following is my modification of that procedure which works for us, and takes less time, but requires more catalyst. Dissolve 1 ml sulfuric acid in 150 ml methanol and add to 1 liter liter dry wvo, heat to about 60 Celsius for one hour. Then dissolve 4.9gm NaOH in 50 ml methanol and add to the reaction mixture. Continue heating for an additional hour, stir for one more hour and then let set for 8 or more hours. workup as usual. Now for the why more catalyst. Basically the sulfuric acid used neutralizes some of the base catalyst, hence more must be add to get back to the desired concentration of catalyst. If you don't know moles and equivalents, the following may be abstruse. 1 ml sulfuric acid is 36 milliequivalents, therefore its presence in the reaction mixture neutralizes 36 milliequivalents of NaOH. The simple base catalyzed method requires 3.5 grams NaOH which is 90 milliequivalents. Subtract 36 from 90 and you get 54 milliequivalents of base left. This corresponds to to only 2.1 grams NaOH active active catalyst, the remainder having been converted to Na(2)SO(4), sodium sulfate. In round numbers then you have to add an additional 1.4 grams of NaOH on top of the 3.5 grams called for in the simple procedure. The following instructions are intended for an advanced audience, thoroughly familiar with the simple procedure. To minimize costs we still do a titration. If the wvo titrates at greater than 1.4 ml, we use this modification, less we use the simple procedure. All this having be said, I actually use KOH in my procedure but have done the calculations with NaOH, it works either way, one just has to adjust the molar proportions. Acknowledgment should be given to Kelly Verbel and Josh Lisko, students who worked with me on this part of our biodiesel project. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 27/12/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
[Biofuel] Crude palm oil
Hi! Im trying to figure out biodiesel yield from palm trees. Does anyone know how much crude oil a palm tree can yield annually? How many palm trees are normally planted per hectare? Thanks! Courtney ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO
I also had some trouble in the beginning. I now use a settling drum I found the design on J T F and it works very well. I collect my wvo in the wee hours on my way to work and have collected 20+ gal of water in 40 gal pickup. I drain the pure water out after a few hours of settling then heat the balance to 120 f and drain it once more. The separation drum has 2 drain valves one on the bottom and one about 6 inches off the bottom. That where I get a nice clean product fro processing. It may seem that the energy used is a waste but I find it is better than 120 liters of failure. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Eady, D.C. Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:05 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO I am just getting started making BD. I have had some trouble getting all the water removed from the WVO. Is it a must to heat the oil if so how hot, how long? Will it settle out on its own if just sits if so how long do I need to let it settle? Any info will be appreciated. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO
Lee, I don't know where you are at in the learning process but if you have not started with virgin oil and had multiple success in small batches do yourself a favor and start there and learn the titration before you start with WVO. As far as heating it there is a whole section on getting the water out of WVO: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#water Best Jim Lee Eady, D.C. wrote: I am just getting started making BD. I have had some trouble getting all the water removed from the WVO. Is it a must to heat the oil if so how hot, how long? Will it settle out on its own if just sits if so how long do I need to let it settle? Any info will be appreciated. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs
Ian, I think you'll have to ask Bob what it is that is off the mark for him and lends to whatever quandry he may or may not be in. Acid/base works. It just requires some pretty good understanding of what is going on in the reaction, what enhances the reaction and what actions are less than beneficial on the operator's part. There are perhaps only three things that I would suggest to modify in the acid/base process. 1) Allow a 24 hour reaction period, of which at least sixteen are under agitation. 2) Drain off any glycerol that settles out prior to moving to the base stage. As most of the acid will reside there after settling, this will reduce the amount of base catalyst consumed in neutralizing the acid. 3) The eighty mililiters of methanol suggested in the acid stage is sufficient only for conversion of feedstock up to approximately forty percent FFAs. It's almost impossible to imagine any WVO coming from a restaurant that would be that degraded. (If it is, they should be shut down by the local health department.) But it is theoretically possible. Oils that degraded or more will require more methanol in the acid stage and less methanol in the base stage. Todd Swearingen Ian Theresa Sims wrote: Some reassurance please. After months of single stage manufacture and reactor modifications I was about to jump into the Foolproof method. But now Bob in a, I assume well equiped Lab can't get the process to work completely. What Gives? How much chance do I have in a back yard with home made and jerry rigged equipment. Alex Kac also states that mixing methanol and sulphuric acid together is can cause serious problems. Once again what gives? Cheers Ian - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs Appal Energy wrote: Bob, Why not drain the small amount of glycerol that settles out of an esterification? The majority of the sulfuric will come out with it. That lessens the amount of base catalyst needed for the follow-up transesterification. again, this is just what I observed: no glycerin settled out after the acid stage. Waiting 8 hours realistically means another day. Additionally, if I do wait and do get some glycerin to settle out with my conditions, wouldn't you think that methanol also would be part of the cocktail, thence affecting the equilibrium? Fewer chemicals in, fewer problems out. Todd Swearingen bob allen wrote: acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs In my lab I have had little success with the acid/base method for biodiesel production. When my students and I tried to duplicate the foolproof method http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html we invariably obtained incomplete reactions, plus the longer preparation time was less attractive. The following is my modification of that procedure which works for us, and takes less time, but requires more catalyst. Dissolve 1 ml sulfuric acid in 150 ml methanol and add to 1 liter liter dry wvo, heat to about 60 Celsius for one hour. Then dissolve 4.9gm NaOH in 50 ml methanol and add to the reaction mixture. Continue heating for an additional hour, stir for one more hour and then let set for 8 or more hours. workup as usual. Now for the why more catalyst. Basically the sulfuric acid used neutralizes some of the base catalyst, hence more must be add to get back to the desired concentration of catalyst. If you don't know moles and equivalents, the following may be abstruse. 1 ml sulfuric acid is 36 milliequivalents, therefore its presence in the reaction mixture neutralizes 36 milliequivalents of NaOH. The simple base catalyzed method requires 3.5 grams NaOH which is 90 milliequivalents. Subtract 36 from 90 and you get 54 milliequivalents of base left. This corresponds to to only 2.1 grams NaOH active active catalyst, the remainder having been converted to Na(2)SO(4), sodium sulfate. In round numbers then you have to add an additional 1.4 grams of NaOH on top of the 3.5 grams called for in the simple procedure. The following instructions are intended for an advanced audience, thoroughly familiar with the simple procedure. To minimize costs we still do a titration. If the wvo titrates at greater than 1.4 ml, we use this modification, less we use the simple procedure. All this having be said, I actually use KOH in my procedure but have done the calculations with NaOH, it works either way, one just has to adjust the molar proportions. Acknowledgment should be given to Kelly Verbel and Josh Lisko, students who worked with me on this part of our biodiesel project. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to
Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs
FWIW, I tried the foolproof method off and on for a qhile and finally went back to the old tried and true. I never could get it to work reliably. Ian Theresa Sims wrote: Some reassurance please. After months of single stage manufacture and reactor modifications I was about to jump into the Foolproof method. But now Bob in a, I assume well equiped Lab can't get the process to work completely. What Gives? How much chance do I have in a back yard with home made and jerry rigged equipment. Alex Kac also states that mixing methanol and sulphuric acid together is can cause serious problems. Once again what gives? Cheers Ian - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs Appal Energy wrote: Bob, Why not drain the small amount of glycerol that settles out of an esterification? The majority of the sulfuric will come out with it. That lessens the amount of base catalyst needed for the follow-up transesterification. again, this is just what I observed: no glycerin settled out after the acid stage. Waiting 8 hours realistically means another day. Additionally, if I do wait and do get some glycerin to settle out with my conditions, wouldn't you think that methanol also would be part of the cocktail, thence affecting the equilibrium? Fewer chemicals in, fewer problems out. Todd Swearingen bob allen wrote: acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs In my lab I have had little success with the acid/base method for biodiesel production. When my students and I tried to duplicate the foolproof method http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html we invariably obtained incomplete reactions, plus the longer preparation time was less attractive. The following is my modification of that procedure which works for us, and takes less time, but requires more catalyst. Dissolve 1 ml sulfuric acid in 150 ml methanol and add to 1 liter liter dry wvo, heat to about 60 Celsius for one hour. Then dissolve 4.9gm NaOH in 50 ml methanol and add to the reaction mixture. Continue heating for an additional hour, stir for one more hour and then let set for 8 or more hours. workup as usual. Now for the why more catalyst. Basically the sulfuric acid used neutralizes some of the base catalyst, hence more must be add to get back to the desired concentration of catalyst. If you don't know moles and equivalents, the following may be abstruse. 1 ml sulfuric acid is 36 milliequivalents, therefore its presence in the reaction mixture neutralizes 36 milliequivalents of NaOH. The simple base catalyzed method requires 3.5 grams NaOH which is 90 milliequivalents. Subtract 36 from 90 and you get 54 milliequivalents of base left. This corresponds to to only 2.1 grams NaOH active active catalyst, the remainder having been converted to Na(2)SO(4), sodium sulfate. In round numbers then you have to add an additional 1.4 grams of NaOH on top of the 3.5 grams called for in the simple procedure. The following instructions are intended for an advanced audience, thoroughly familiar with the simple procedure. To minimize costs we still do a titration. If the wvo titrates at greater than 1.4 ml, we use this modification, less we use the simple procedure. All this having be said, I actually use KOH in my procedure but have done the calculations with NaOH, it works either way, one just has to adjust the molar proportions. Acknowledgment should be given to Kelly Verbel and Josh Lisko, students who worked with me on this part of our biodiesel project. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 27/12/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey
[Biofuel] quality test questions
Hi, I am just after a bit more advice regarding the quality test on a small test batch. I followed the Dr Peppers technique using new canola oil and the process seems to have worked out ok. When I do the quality test I get separation in 30 mins, but also get a small (5cm) white layer between the water and biodiesel, which I believe is soap. Does this indicate poor fuel? Would it still be ok to wash and dry and use, or should I not use this batch and maybe use less methanol and lye? thanks Darryl West ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] quality test questions
Daryl, The suggestion is that you understand precisely what it is that you're looking at when you see a thick layer of emulsion in a wash. If the fuel was manufactured properly, the interface layer between water and fuel in a test wash would be only a milimeter or two thick. Five centimeters indicates a reasonably incomplete reaction. As for your suggested resolve? Reducing the methanol and lye? Going that direction would only compound the matter. Todd Swearingen Darryl West wrote: Hi, I am just after a bit more advice regarding the quality test on a small test batch. I followed the Dr Peppers technique using new canola oil and the process seems to have worked out ok. When I do the quality test I get separation in 30 mins, but also get a small (5cm) white layer between the water and biodiesel, which I believe is soap. Does this indicate poor fuel? Would it still be ok to wash and dry and use, or should I not use this batch and maybe use less methanol and lye? thanks Darryl West ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] quality test questions
Not knowing where you are in the process. I would sagest using the stock methoxide formula listed on J.T.F. after titration I mix the methoxide 1 gram less then the titration # and 1 gram more. I find that the results often differ with the feed stock used. After figuring out which 1/2 liter test batch is best I fine tune it 1/2 gram at a time until I start to get soap. I then go back 1/4 gram and use it for processing. It may seem like a lot of work but it can be done all at the same time I just mark the tops of the bottles with the mix used. When I started I found it very hard to see a change with new oil. After doing 2 qts of new oil just to see the basics I moved to wvo in 1/2 liter batches. I also found that the group helped me a lot it seems I thought I was using accurate measurements but only half of the crap I picked up for measuring was even close. Good luck. Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darryl West Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 3:37 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] quality test questions Hi, I am just after a bit more advice regarding the quality test on a small test batch. I followed the Dr Peppers technique using new canola oil and the process seems to have worked out ok. When I do the quality test I get separation in 30 mins, but also get a small (5cm) white layer between the water and biodiesel, which I believe is soap. Does this indicate poor fuel? Would it still be ok to wash and dry and use, or should I not use this batch and maybe use less methanol and lye? thanks Darryl West ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FW: Important, Congress set to gut renewable energy programs
Title: Re: Important, Congress set to gut renewable energy programs Has anyone heard anything more about this? Did NREL get hit hard? Just looking for a follow up, who could I ask? Thanks Gregory I. Ocnos -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David M. Brockes Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 5:47 PM To: Awea-Windnet; Biofuel; Renewable-Energy Subject: [Biofuel] FW: Important,Congress set to gut renewable energy programs Importance: High Follow-up. David -Original Message- From: Bob Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: Re: Important, Congress set to gut renewable energy programs Importance: High Ive just returned from a meeting at NREL (where I am a small contractor). The lab expects a 40% cut in the Wind Powering America program. Bob Anderson On 11/16/05 1:45 PM, Van Jamison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FYI - Original Message - From: Patrick Judge mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 7:50 AM Subject: Fwd: Important, Congress set to gut renewable energy programs Congress to Terminate National Bioenergy Center Congress is getting ready this week to terminate the National Bioenergy Research Center and gut the Wind Research Program at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL). NREL researchers who are CRES members sounded the alarm over the weekend after finding out on Friday that many of them may be out of work next month. Here is what I can piece together about what happened last week. On Tuesday the House of Representatives passed the House and Senate Conference Committee markup of the Energy Water and Development Appropriation Bill for 2006. The bill keeps federal funding for renewable energy research level with last year's spending. Unfortunately, it more than doubled the earmarks that take money out of the Wind Energy and Bioenergy Research Programs and direct it elsewhere. Earmarks are when individual representatives direct funding to particular projects in their districts. With passage of the Energy Bill earlier this year, these earmarks have been in the forefront of the news. In fact, the American Solar Energy Society said the Energy Bill was so full of pork barrel spending that ASES did not endorse it. Congressional leaders usually wait until the conference committee is meeting behind closed doors to introduce earmarks. They emerge as part of a much larger bill that is hundreds of pages long. It appears that in this case, the House of Representatives voted on this bill without many of its members having had time to read it. It took NREL staff a couple of days of read through the pile of paper and figure out what it will mean for the research programs. Some of the earmarks were listed together to support state initiatives, and others were buried in different portions of the massive spending bill. This year these added to $62 million in total, more than two thirds of the entire research and development budget for bioenergy. Then the staff had to calculate DOE's contractual obligations to its industry partnerships and the 10% cut that the agency takes from all programs to pay the salaries of its staff. Staff of the National Bioenergy Center, which number more than 90 people, were told Friday afternoon that all that the funding that would be left was sufficient only to cover their severance checks. The National Wind Technology Center is facing similar, severe cutbacks. It seems incredible, but Congress is getting ready to gut the two research programs in renewable energy technologies that have enjoyed the most success and commercial development just at a time when fossil fuel prices are their highest level in history. In the case of creating transportation fuels from biomass, these technologies represent our greatest near-term hope of reducing imports or fossil fuels. The Senate is scheduled to take up the appropriations bill today or tomorrow. Please call Senators Allard and Salazar today and ask them to vote no on the appropriations bill from the Energy and Water Committee. Tell them that renewable energy RD is one of this country's best investments. - Wayne Allard: call the Colorado office at 303-220-7414 or the Washington office at 202-224-5941, or send an email message at: http://allard.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactHome - Ken Salazar: call the Colorado office at 303-455-7600 or the Washington office at 202-224-5852, or send an email message at: http://salazar.senate.gov/contact/email.cfm Russ Doty, CEO New World WindPower LLC PO Box 1734 Billings, MT 59103-1734 406-656-2763 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web site: http://www.newworldwindpower.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Modification of cars to use biodiesel and insurance
Philip Leicestershire is in the middle of England, in the Midlands region. Where abouts are you in the US, it seems many biofuellers are over there. I am not going to make any modifications to start with. I was curious as to what the insurance company would say an they will do anything not to pay out if i were to make a claim, so i am careful about that. Cheers Tim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Modification of cars to use biodiesel and insurance *#
Dear Tim, I am sure the U.S. Navy produces biodiesel at several locations. I am afraid the San Diego Naval Base is the only one I can recall without going to Google. Perhaps you should raise this issue with your management team --you could become a hero and spend the rest of your life as an idea man. Good luck !!! Regards, Wendell Tim Hadland wrote: hello from leicestershire! I have just discussed the fact i am going to run my car on bio diesel with my insurance company. I have used Norwich union, and the pay as you drive option (i am in the merchant navy and dont use my car for 4 month periods and i am still a young driver) I wish ships used biodiesel, they use residual or heavy fuel oil - solid at room temperature. Nasty stuff, which gets treated through heating and settling, heating and purification - centrifuging out water and solids, and filtering at various stages before being burnt in the engine. Already and ideal set-up for using biodiesel. Would make work feel more healthy with reduced nasty fumes and probably much safer. Anyway back to insurance. I was told if i were to have any mod done to my fuel system such as a heated fuel filter it would have to be installed by a qualified and certified bio diesel installer !? None in Leicestershire, in fact i dont know of anyone in the midlands. I feel well qualified as a marine engineer. Has anyone else had insurance probs with modifications? cheers, and happy new year for tmw. TIM HADLAND ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Better titration Question
In the better Titration Method I find it's easier to mix my stock solution with 20grams in 500milliters distilled water. That gives .4% w/v lye solution when 5ml is added to 45ml distilled water. By doing this I do not have to divide the titration results. I haven't had any problems yet, but I was wondering if anyone would know of a reason I shouldn't do it? Or if there is anyone using this method? Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FW: Important, Congress set to gut renewable energy programs
It was all over the news here right before Christmas. I haven't heard anything since then -- I think the layoffs were going to start in January though. http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/energy/article/0,2777,DRMN_23914_4328252,00.html http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3327991 http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSAIKOBJECTID=48957dfa-0abe-421a-0002-1de4979db745TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=97438ran=116069 On 1/2/06, Greg Ocnos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone heard anything more about this? Did NREL get hit hard? Just looking for a follow up, who could I ask? Thanks Gregory I. Ocnos -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David M. Brockes Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 5:47 PM To: Awea-Windnet; Biofuel; Renewable-Energy Subject: [Biofuel] FW: Important,Congress set to gut renewable energy programs Importance: High Follow-up. David -Original Message- From: Bob Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: Re: Important, Congress set to gut renewable energy programs Importance: High I've just returned from a meeting at NREL (where I am a small contractor). The lab expects a 40% cut in the Wind Powering America program. Bob Anderson On 11/16/05 1:45 PM, Van Jamison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FYI - Original Message - From: Patrick Judge mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 7:50 AM Subject: Fwd: Important, Congress set to gut renewable energy programs Congress to Terminate National Bioenergy Center Congress is getting ready this week to terminate the National Bioenergy Research Center and gut the Wind Research Program at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL). NREL researchers who are CRES members sounded the alarm over the weekend after finding out on Friday that many of them may be out of work next month. Here is what I can piece together about what happened last week. On Tuesday the House of Representatives passed the House and Senate Conference Committee markup of the Energy Water and Development Appropriation Bill for 2006. The bill keeps federal funding for renewable energy research level with last year's spending. Unfortunately, it more than doubled the earmarks that take money out of the Wind Energy and Bioenergy Research Programs and direct it elsewhere. Earmarks are when individual representatives direct funding to particular projects in their districts. With passage of the Energy Bill earlier this year, these earmarks have been in the forefront of the news. In fact, the American Solar Energy Society said the Energy Bill was so full of pork barrel spending that ASES did not endorse it. Congressional leaders usually wait until the conference committee is meeting behind closed doors to introduce earmarks. They emerge as part of a much larger bill that is hundreds of pages long. It appears that in this case, the House of Representatives voted on this bill without many of its members having had time to read it. It took NREL staff a couple of days of read through the pile of paper and figure out what it will mean for the research programs. Some of the earmarks were listed together to support state initiatives, and others were buried in different portions of the massive spending bill. This year these added to $62 million in total, more than two thirds of the entire research and development budget for bioenergy. Then the staff had to calculate DOE's contractual obligations to its industry partnerships and the 10% cut that the agency takes from all programs to pay the salaries of its staff. Staff of the National Bioenergy Center, which number more than 90 people, were told Friday afternoon that all that the funding that would be left was sufficient only to cover their severance checks. The National Wind Technology Center is facing similar, severe cutbacks. It seems incredible, but Congress is getting ready to gut the two research programs in renewable energy technologies that have enjoyed the most success and commercial development just at a time when fossil fuel prices are their highest level in history. In the case of creating transportation fuels from biomass, these technologies represent our greatest near-term hope of reducing imports or fossil fuels. The Senate is scheduled to take up the appropriations bill today or tomorrow. Please call Senators Allard and Salazar today and ask them to vote no on the appropriations bill from the Energy and Water Committee. Tell them that renewable energy RD is one of this country's best investments. - Wayne Allard: call the Colorado office at 303-220-7414 or the Washington office at
Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO
Wow - that's a lot of water - is there any other source of WVO near you? Derick Giorchino wrote: I also had some trouble in the beginning. I now use a settling drum I found the design on J T F and it works very well. I collect my wvo in the wee hours on my way to work and have collected 20+ gal of water in 40 gal pickup. I drain the pure water out after a few hours of settling then heat the balance to 120 f and drain it once more. The separation drum has 2 drain valves one on the bottom and one about 6 inches off the bottom. That where I get a nice clean product fro processing. It may seem that the energy used is a waste but I find it is better than 120 liters of failure. Good luck Derick *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Lee Eady, D.C. *Sent:* Monday, January 02, 2006 12:05 PM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* [Biofuel] removing water from WVO I am just getting started making BD. I have had some trouble getting all the water removed from the WVO. Is it a must to heat the oil if so how hot, how long? Will it settle out on its own if just sits if so how long do I need to let it settle? Any info will be appreciated. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO
Hi Lee, I've found it easier to switch to a better WVO source than to fiddle too much de-watering. That said, heat and time will work. Lee Eady, D.C. wrote: I am just getting started making BD. I have had some trouble getting all the water removed from the WVO. Is it a must to heat the oil if so how hot, how long? Will it settle out on its own if just sits if so how long do I need to let it settle? Any info will be appreciated. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Better titration Question
On Jan 2, 2006, at 3:33 PM, Logan Vilas wrote: In the better Titration Method I find it's easier to mix my stock solution with 20grams in 500milliters distilled water. OK -- we now have 4% NaOH soln. That gives .4% w/v lye solution when 5ml is added to 45ml distilled water. Yes, if you add 5ml of your 4% soln. to 45ml of water, you get a 0.4% solution. This is still 4 times the concentration that everyone else uses. By doing this I do not have to divide the titration results. I don't understand what you mean by this. When using a 0.1% soln., the number of milliliters of soln. needed to neutralize 1ml of oil is equal to the number of grams NaOH which must be added to the usual 3.5g per liter of oil. With your 4X solution, you will achieve neutrality at only 1/4 as many milliliters of solution, and thus will need to multiply by four to calculate the proper excess of NaOH. I haven't had any problems yet, but I was wondering if anyone would know of a reason I shouldn't do it? As long as you make the proper multiplication by four, your solution will work fine. Or if there is anyone using this method? I can't see why anyone would. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO
Yes there is but the titration is off the charts. This has only happened 2 times since I have been doing this about 2 years. And the wvo is normally a very good quality. Titration at about 2 or 2.25 + the 3.5. As apposed to the 9 to 14 + 3.5 I started with. I was advised to not eat at those places. I haven't been back for a FFA dinner or stock for the process. I didn't mention before but the settling tank also has the advantage of settling out the goop you need to filter out for processing. It seems to be heavier than the oil. This gives me wvo that looks like tan salad oil clear and clean, I haven't had a failed batch since. Oops I may have just jinxed myself. It seems that the food particles also hold a large amount of water that will make it harder to process. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:56 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO Wow - that's a lot of water - is there any other source of WVO near you? Derick Giorchino wrote: I also had some trouble in the beginning. I now use a settling drum I found the design on J T F and it works very well. I collect my wvo in the wee hours on my way to work and have collected 20+ gal of water in 40 gal pickup. I drain the pure water out after a few hours of settling then heat the balance to 120 f and drain it once more. The separation drum has 2 drain valves one on the bottom and one about 6 inches off the bottom. That where I get a nice clean product fro processing. It may seem that the energy used is a waste but I find it is better than 120 liters of failure. Good luck Derick *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Lee Eady, D.C. *Sent:* Monday, January 02, 2006 12:05 PM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* [Biofuel] removing water from WVO I am just getting started making BD. I have had some trouble getting all the water removed from the WVO. Is it a must to heat the oil if so how hot, how long? Will it settle out on its own if just sits if so how long do I need to let it settle? Any info will be appreciated. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO
Funny you mention this Derick, I have two sources one gives me 2.5 gallons of water per 5 gallons of grease but it is like virgin oil when its cleaned up. My other source gives me the oil in clean dry 5 gallon containers with caps but the FFA's are really high. It certainly would be an eye opener for those folks that eat the French fries and onion rings if they only knew or are they just brave Hm. Jim Derick Giorchino wrote: Yes there is but the titration is off the charts. This has only happened 2 times since I have been doing this about 2 years. And the wvo is normally a very good quality. Titration at about 2 or 2.25 + the 3.5. As apposed to the 9 to 14 + 3.5 I started with. I was advised to not eat at those places. I haven't been back for a FFA dinner or stock for the process. I didn't mention before but the settling tank also has the advantage of settling out the goop you need to filter out for processing. It seems to be heavier than the oil. This gives me wvo that looks like tan salad oil clear and clean, I haven't had a failed batch since. Oops I may have just jinxed myself. It seems that the food particles also hold a large amount of water that will make it harder to process. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:56 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] removing water from WVO Wow - that's a lot of water - is there any other source of WVO near you? Derick Giorchino wrote: I also had some trouble in the beginning. I now use a settling drum I found the design on J T F and it works very well. I collect my wvo in the wee hours on my way to work and have collected 20+ gal of water in 40 gal pickup. I drain the pure water out after a few hours of settling then heat the balance to 120 f and drain it once more. The separation drum has 2 drain valves one on the bottom and one about 6 inches off the bottom. That where I get a nice clean product fro processing. It may seem that the energy used is a waste but I find it is better than 120 liters of failure. Good luck Derick *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Lee Eady, D.C. *Sent:* Monday, January 02, 2006 12:05 PM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* [Biofuel] removing water from WVO I am just getting started making BD. I have had some trouble getting all the water removed from the WVO. Is it a must to heat the oil if so how hot, how long? Will it settle out on its own if just sits if so how long do I need to let it settle? Any info will be appreciated. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Better titration Question
Ken When using the better titration method I'm using 4ml oil and 40ml Isopropyl. As per the method on JTF you do that then divide by 4. I am just multiplying the lye solution by 4 before doing the titration to remove the step of dividing in the end. I should have said the proportions of my titration ahead of time. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Provost Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:10 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Better titration Question On Jan 2, 2006, at 3:33 PM, Logan Vilas wrote: In the better Titration Method I find it's easier to mix my stock solution with 20grams in 500milliters distilled water. OK -- we now have 4% NaOH soln. That gives .4% w/v lye solution when 5ml is added to 45ml distilled water. Yes, if you add 5ml of your 4% soln. to 45ml of water, you get a 0.4% solution. This is still 4 times the concentration that everyone else uses. By doing this I do not have to divide the titration results. I don't understand what you mean by this. When using a 0.1% soln., the number of milliliters of soln. needed to neutralize 1ml of oil is equal to the number of grams NaOH which must be added to the usual 3.5g per liter of oil. With your 4X solution, you will achieve neutrality at only 1/4 as many milliliters of solution, and thus will need to multiply by four to calculate the proper excess of NaOH. I haven't had any problems yet, but I was wondering if anyone would know of a reason I shouldn't do it? As long as you make the proper multiplication by four, your solution will work fine. Or if there is anyone using this method? I can't see why anyone would. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Crude palm oil
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html The chart there says 5950 l/ha from oil palm. Googling oil palm cultivation came up with this site (among many others): http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.asp?url_file=/DOCREP/006/T0309E/T0309E01.htm leave 7.8 meters between rows and 9 metres between pegs. In this way you can plant 143 oil palms per hectare; this is the best density. Are you plannning on growing these things? -Arttu On 1/2/06, Courtney Blodgett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! I'm trying to figure out biodiesel yield from palm trees. Does anyone know how much crude oil a palm tree can yield annually? How many palm trees are normally planted per hectare? Thanks! Courtney ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Oooops! to much acid
Hi Guys. I was hoping this day would never come. Ive been making Bio from WVO for over 12 months now with great success using the standard Base catalyst method. I run it in my 1992 80 series Toyota Land Cruiser with about 340,000 Km on the clock and she purrs like a Kitten. I find the web site an excellent wealth of knowledge and a great place to learn the different theories and ideas from other like minded soles. Up until now reading and re reading this info has been of great assistance to me when in doubt/trouble, however this time Ive ended up with 180 liters of Bio with a PH of 5.8. after stuffing up the calculations with the acid quench in the wash water. I now find myself with a self induced problem with this latest batch and I would like to ask the mailing list for advice so I can go on my annual camping trip and not have to pay $1.30/Litre at the pump here in Sydney. I have done a tritation of the washed bio and it gave me a 0.075 tritation as per the 'Better tritation method. I'm concerned that I have converted some of the Bio back to FFA's. My questions are:- A. Is this enough catalist to neutralize the acid? B. If so how much Methanol should I use for the reaction? C. Is this the best method to bring this batch back to PH 7? Thanks Mick Ellis ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
